Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)

[MrsR]

Kylo's act also parallels a gangland initiation. Another terrifying fear for modern audiences.  And for history fans it's equivalent to the "kill the dog" moment for young SS officers which signaled "all in." And that was just recently used in The Kingsmen.

 

He's unredeemable.

 

Maybe in subsequent films he'll get a chance to torture his mother.  

[Phebemarie]

When you referenced Columbine, MrsR, I could definitely see the parallels between the fictional Kylo and the real-life murderers.  You made a very chilling comparison and developed your ideas even further in your latest post.  I agree that Kylo shouldn't be redeemed.  He should continue down the path of evil so his ultimate defeat by the good guys will be more resounding.  But since the series is a fantasy, with the precedent of bad-guy redemption in its bones, will the writers be able to resist the temptation to repeat it?  

[Zuleikha]

The fact that people are still pulling for him to be redeemed just seems to say more about certain sections of a fandom needing to woobify 'dreamy' bad guys (Spike, Loki, Sylar etc) that it being a realistic possibility.

 

I think it's also about Han and Leia's love story and the fact that as far as we currently know, Ben/Kylo Ren is their only child. I didn't realize it until I saw another poster articulated it, but part of me does want redemption for Kylo Ren because I want redemption for Han/Leia's love. I don't want their only child to be a simple monster.

 

This is also why I've jumped firmly aboard the wanting Rey to be their daughter somehow (presumably with memory alteration involved). I don't believe Kylo Ren can come back from killing Han, except maybe in a death-sacrifice like Anakin. But I can see the second chance with Rey.

 

I would think even a hint of incest potential would sink any Rey-Kylo "ships" but that wouldn't be the only thing about modern fan culture I don't get.

Fandom is a complicated place, but fans often gravitate towards fanfic/fanvids about ships that are less likely to happen. It's a place for fans to invest their own energy. Incest is definitely no barrier to fanfic or fanvids, though!

 

IMHO, canon ships take off with a lot of energy when the romance plot actually exists, so if Finn/Rey becomes canon and is well done, I think there will be more fan investment. Personally, I'd rather they stay good friends. I don't feel a need for a romance plot. Maybe a new character for Finn, but Luke didn't have a romance in the first one and I don't think Rey should have one in this one either.

[revbfc]

The thing about Kylo Ren killing his dad is that I'm unsure he was in control of his own actions. He seemed to want to abandon the dark side, and something took over his will. Could Snoke be strong enough to control beings like puppets?

[rwlevin]

I thought Kylo was double talking. Like when he told vader's helmet that the light side was pulling him, I thought he was using double speak to tell Han that he needed his help to go to completely dark, IE kill him like Snoke wanted.

 

Or that's just me.

[Danny Franks]

The thing about Kylo Ren killing his dad is that I'm unsure he was in control of his own actions. He seemed to want to abandon the dark side, and something took over his will. Could Snoke be strong enough to control beings like puppets?

 

I think he was definitely in control of his actions. Was he conflicted about killing Han? Sure, because at the end of the day that's still his father and Kylo Ren isn't completely without a soul. But he felt like killing Han was what he needed to do to complete his journey to the dark side... so he did it. Snoke may have told him at some point that he should do it, or may have insinuated it, but it was still Kylo Ren's choice.

[SNeaker]

I think it's also about Han and Leia's love story and the fact that as far as we currently know, Ben/Kylo Ren is their only child. I didn't realize it until I saw another poster articulated it, but part of me does want redemption for Kylo Ren because I want redemption for Han/Leia's love. I don't want their only child to be a simple monster.

 

This is also why I've jumped firmly aboard the wanting Rey to be their daughter somehow (presumably with memory alteration involved). I don't believe Kylo Ren can come back from killing Han, except maybe in a death-sacrifice like Anakin. But I can see the second chance with Rey.

 

This is how I feel, basically. I get what they were trying to do with him, but I wonder if they really thought through what it would mean for Han's and Leia's stories. To have a child who is essentially even worse than Vader, and that being their legacy...it's bleak. Not what I look for in Star Wars.

[Lantern7]

Saw the movie. Read through the posts post-12/18. Knew I saw Parkman from Heroes, but I missed Judah Freelander. I probably wouldn't have recognized him unless he was wearing a "#1 JEDI" cap.

 

Looks like the prequel trilogy has been consigned to the same pyre as Vader. Yeah, I'm thinking that David Prowse would make for a better Force Ghost Vader than Hayden. While I'm on the subject . . .  damn, Kylo Ren is a punk, isn't he? I'm thinking steroid use was a "thing" a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, at least judging by the tantrums. It's like JJ wants a character to know he's a character with big boots to fill and no way of filling them. Sure, he can hold a laser blast in midair (Jedi say what?!?), but he can never be as awesome as Vader. Has this paragraph made sense? I'll understand if it didn't.

 

I'm thinking Rey is Luke's daughter, though I'm guessing that seems to be too popular an option. Rey as a Kenobi would be out from leftfield for me. Now I have Ewan MacGregor in my head, muttering, "I swear, this has never happened before."

 

Han's death scene was telegraphed, albeit nicely. Poor Chewbacca. Poor Leia. Skewered by his own kid . . . nasty way to go.

 

I'm sure I have more thoughts, but I'll stop here. When does the next movie come out?

 

ETA: Were there any maimings in this flick? Interesting that I didn't see anybody lose a limb, and C3P0 has a new arm.

[Kromm]

The thing about Kylo Ren killing his dad is that I'm unsure he was in control of his own actions. He seemed to want to abandon the dark side, and something took over his will.

Except "I know what I have to do and am not sure I have the strength" (I'm paraphrasing cause I'm too lazy to look it up) is a sentiment that cuts both ways. It doesn't necessarily mean he was struggling to hold back The Dark Side. It could just as easily mean a struggle against The Light Side and him needing the strength to resist that (this movie introduced us to the idea that in a similar way to how The Dark Side could tempt Light Side people, that the Light Side could invade the Dark and give even those who have indulged pangs of conscience/regret).

[SeanC]

When you referenced Columbine, MrsR, I could definitely see the parallels between the fictional Kylo and the real-life murderers.  You made a very chilling comparison and developed your ideas even further in your latest post.  I agree that Kylo shouldn't be redeemed.  He should continue down the path of evil so his ultimate defeat by the good guys will be more resounding.  But since the series is a fantasy, with the precedent of bad-guy redemption in its bones, will the writers be able to resist the temptation to repeat it?  

He's been set up as a major character that key figures are meant to have an emotional stake in.  I doubt that redemption is off the table, narratively; partly because the character is kind of limited in terms of development in the future, and more generally because it's more in keeping with the way the series has conceived of the conflict between the Dark Side and the Light.

[Kromm]

Saw the movie. Read through the posts post-12/18. Knew I saw Parkman from Heroes, but I missed Judah Freelander. I probably wouldn't have recognized him unless he was wearing a "#1 JEDI" cap.

Would you accept something else on his head other than a cap? (goggles)

Courtesy of Reddit and some evil person who somehow has screencaps (bad person, bad! Except this spoils nothing other than that a guy with a beard exists in the movie, so here goes...) 

 

If you don't recognize that, that's the Cantina scene (or whatever they called the Bar this time around).

And of course Judah dressed up for the Premiere (not!)

 

[VCRTracking]

From Buzzfeed: 37 Things Cut From “The Force Awakens”

 

Here are the first five:

 

1. The version of Rey in Michael Arndt’s early scripts was called Kira, and she was described as a “loner, hothead, gear-head badass.”

2. Unlike Rey, who is extremely reluctant to leave Jakku, Kira was eager to leave the planet, and a scene was written in which she fantasizes about leaving while watching spaceships arriving and departing from the planet.

3. The version of Finn in Arndt’s version was named Sam, and all early art depicted him as a white man. Sam was described in Arndt’s scripts as “pure charisma.”

4. The earliest version of Poe Dameron was tentatively referred to as John Doe, and production art depicted him as a black man. The character’s role in the film varied a lot — he was briefly considered as a Jedi, and then as a bounty hunter, before they landed on making him a pilot for the Resistance.

5. When Poe was written as a bounty hunter, he had his own Wookiee sidekick.

 

[Joe]

The amputations happen in the middle movies. 2,5 and therefore 8.

Obi-Wan vs cantina patron in ANH. Luke vs Vader in ROTJ. Obi-Wan vs Anakin in ROTS, a threefer. Yeah, no limbs went missing this time around. For all his romp through the OT, JJ did do a few things differently.

[JessePinkman]

Thanks for that link, VCRTracking!

 

7. BB-8, known simply as “Surly” in early production designs, was originally written to first appear in a droid repair area on a Star Destroyer. Droids that could not be repaired there would simply be tossed into a furnace.

 

How Wall-E of them.

 

15. Jakku was initially conceived as a massive, planet-sized junkyard with design elements inspired by 1960s spaghetti Westerns and the 2011 Afghani short film Buzkashi Boys. The now iconic images of the crashed Star Destroyer and fallen AT-AT were around from the beginning.

 

 

 

I would have LOVED this. Holy shit.

 

32. Supreme Leader Snoke was a female character at one point, and was later designed to look like a beautiful but warped marble sculpture.

 

Sounds more interesting than the Voldermort by way of the Wizard of Oz that we got.

 

This whole SW experience has turned me from a casual fan to a full on stan and I did not need this in my life, okay? The opening line in the crawl to TFA "Luke Skywalker has vanished." gives me chills when I think about it and I don't know these people!

[Ravenya003]

I don't think she's a Mary Sue and I liked her character but she does raise questions. The biggest one is how did she manage to beat Kylo Ren, a guy that the movie established as a powerful Force user? The same guy who stopped a blaster bolt in mid-air manages to lose to someone who's never held a lightsaber before? And the Jedi mind trick is something that I find hard to believe because how would that even occur to her to use that?

 

 

This was from a while back and may have already been answered, but I've seen this come up a lot. Yet for me the scene worked - and the more I think about it, the better it works.

 

Kylo is emotionally/mentally shattered from having just murdered his father.

He's bleeding out from a wound thanks to Chewie, one he's actually trying to turn to his advantage by pounding it - which really only demonstrates that it's slowing him down in the first place.

Finn has also had a chance to soften him up a bit. 

The entire point of the character is that he's driven by emotion and a lack of control - in comparison, Rey manages to find the stillness within herself and turn it against him.

Most importantly, he's not actually trying to mortally wound Rey at this stage. He's simultaneously fascinated and unsettled by this girl, even before he met her properly (maybe it was just me, but he seemed to have a reaction right from the moment he heard an unspecified "girl" was involved in BB8's disappearance). He was holding back.

 

But the thing I found REALLY fascinating was the fact that (if I'm recalling correctly) everything Rey does regarding the Force she picks up from him. When he tries to probe her mind, she catches on to what he's doing and instinctively turns it back on him. Adapting the Jedi Mind Trick on the fly was an extension of her observations of what he was capable of. His line to her about needing a teacher was fantastic, because so far that's what he's been - without knowing it.

 

Rey's most important in-story relationship is with Finn, but I suspect that on a larger storytelling scale her foil and nemesis will be Kylo. I'd put my money on them being cousins, and there's tons of juicy potential to be mined in their dynamic. He's already obsessed with her in a way that echoes Vader's fixation on Luke. 

 

Of course, this means we'll have to endure the Loki/Snape/Ward/Spike/Sylar/Phantom of the Opera woobification brigade shipping them madly, but the seeds are there for a really interesting dynamic. (But honestly, the moment Kylo leaned over Rey while she was strapped to the torture gurney I thought: "Oh god, here we go. This is fucking catnip to bad-boy fangirls.")

Edited December 27, 2015 by Ravenya003

[SNeaker]

Of course, this means we'll have to endure the Loki/Snape/Ward/Spike/Sylar/Phantom of the Opera woobification brigade shipping them madly, but the seeds are there for a really interesting dynamic. (But honestly, the moment Kylo leaned over Rey while she was strapped to the torture gurney I thought: "Oh god, here we go. This is fucking catnip to bad-boy fangirls.")

 

When he said "I can take what I want" my mind went to other places besides mind reading. Thank goodness Star Wars doesn't go to those places.

[anna0852]

You're not the only one who thought that and is grateful SW doesn't go there.  There was a very definite icky undertone to that scene, which nicely underscores what an invasion that sort of Force mindreading really is.

Edited December 27, 2015 by anna0852

[VCRTracking]

I'm also just glad they never refer to Han as old, which they did constantly in Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. They could have easily done a callback to Han calling Obi-Wan an "old fossil" by having Finn or Rey call Han one but they didn't. Even the people Han owed money to or his own son never called him "old man" as an insult.

Edited December 27, 2015 by VCRTracking

[anna0852]

The gold bikini was because Carrie Fisher thought her costume didn't show her curves enough.

I agree about Kylo developing an unhealthy fixation on his sister/cousin.

[Izeinwinter]

Re: Snoke being a woman: They could still go there. That hologram is just so over the top that it could easily be a piece of misdirection, and the actual supreme leader will turn out to be, oh, Natalie Dormer. I actually think a reveal that the image is false is very likely just because if they are going to do much with the character, keeping Snoke a CGI gigant would be impractical. 

[Danny Franks]

I'm also just glad they never refer to Han as old, which they did constantly in Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. They could have easily done a callback to Han calling Obi-Wan an "old fossil" by having Finn or Rey call Han one but they didn't. Even the people Han owed money to or his own son never called him "old man" as an insult.

 

They didn't really need to, when Harrison was cranking out the crusty old dad humour like that. He fell right back into playing Han much better than he fell back into playing Indy, and seemed like he was having more fun too.

 

Re: Snoke being a woman: They could still go there. That hologram is just so over the top that it could easily be a piece of misdirection, and the actual supreme leader will turn out to be, oh, Natalie Dormer. I actually think a reveal that the image is false is very likely just because if they are going to do much with the character, keeping Snoke a CGI gigant would be impractical. 

 

Natalie Dormer as Snoke? Would it be okay if I decided to join the Dark Side? Seriously, that would be a great bit of casting, and a great role for Dormer. Give her some unsettling and ickily-undertoned scenes with Kylo Ren, but with her firmly in charge. The tumblerites won't know what to think.

 

There will definitely be a reveal about Snoke, though, because you don't use a hugely imposing hologram like that if you're not hiding, or compensating for, something. But I hope it's not just 'Snoke's actually tiny' because they already did that with Yoda, and while they clearly love referencing the original trilogy, this time they need to do something different.

 

Good point. I guess I was focusing only on the Skywalker amputations. Chances are Rey's going to lose a hand or an arm in 8.

 

 

This is another bit of Star Wars lore that needs to be left behind. One of the reasons Anakin lost his limbs in Clones was because Lucas was attempting to make the movie dark and serious, like Empire was, but he never managed to create any audience empathy for Anakin, either before or after he was injured. Did anyone care that he got hurt? It didn't matter, because immediately after it, you got Yoda leaping around like a Tigger, because Lucas believed (this is in the making of stuff) that fans would go nuts for him fighting with a lightsaber. Anakin was an afterthought in his own crucible.

 

Episode VIII may well be dark, with the intention of it being the low point of the trilogy for our heroes, but maiming is not necessary. Especially not if it's thought to be as foregone a conclusion as this.

Edited December 27, 2015 by Danny Franks

[latetotheparty]

Well that's convenient, pairing them off, and making sure there's no chance of putting the lily white girl in an interracial relationship with Poe or worse, Finn. Also part of the reason why they latched onto the white dude to match her with, incest and patricide be damned.

 

It's not convenient, it's slash.

[Jediknight]

I'm also just glad they never refer to Han as old, which they did constantly in Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. They could have easily done a callback to Han calling Obi-Wan an "old fossil" by having Finn or Rey call Han one but they didn't. Even the people Han owed money to or his own son never called him "old man" as an insult.

That's because of a different government.  The Empire buried the Jedi, and made sure to erase Obi-Wan's heroics during that time, so Han wouldn't know he's looking at one of the most powerful Jedi there was, and one of the top generals in the Clone Wars.  With the Republic, they would make sure to mention Han's heroics and importance in defeating the Empire.  There's also his smuggling which Rey knows about, so everyone talking to him would know they're talking to a freaking legend.  They treat him with the respect he deserves.

[MrsR]

Carrie was asked to lose ten pounds when she was originally cast because her face was so chubby and round. 

 

Her serious cocaine habit was just getting going by the time Empire started. She and Harrison partied real hard during that shoot, and spent some quality time together, if you catch my drift.

[VCRTracking]

The gold bikini was because Carrie Fisher thought her costume didn't show her curves enough.

 

According to the story meeting transcripts in the Making of Return of the Jedi book it was director Richard Marquand who came up with the idea of Leia being captured and made Jabba's dancing girl. He also hated the Bespin gown.

 

Her serious cocaine habit was just getting going by the time Empire started. She and Harrison partied real hard during that shoot, and spent some quality time together, if you catch my drift.

 

As Carrie tells it:

“Eric Idle rented me his house [during the filming of The Empire Strikes Back], but then he stayed at the house as well, and one night he invited the Rolling Stones over. You know how that happens? It was like [sarcastically] ‘Oh my God, again?'

“I said to Harrison [Ford], ‘The Rolling Stones are going to come over!’ And we had a really early call the following morning, but you have to measure the fun – Rolling Stones, or early call? Rolling Stones, or early call? And we decided on both.

“And they’re a partying bunch of guys, and though I didn’t drink at the time, to be kind of amenable, or whatever, I drank. I used to say I’m allergic to drinking, and this would have been a demonstration of that. And we stayed up pretty late. Charlie [Watts], that one, he didn’t have a lot of facial expressions. He’s like the Darth Vader of the Stones.

“And we stayed up really late and got to the set about two hours later. And we weren’t hung over, we were still in our cups. And if you watch the movie you can see that: Harrison and I are smiling as we arrived in Cloud City. Doesn’t that sound like a euphemism?”

Edited December 27, 2015 by VCRTracking

[Zuleikha]

The gold bikini was because Carrie Fisher thought her costume didn't show her curves enough.

Carrie Fisher's interviewed how much she hated that costume.

 

The entire point of the character is that he's driven by emotion and a lack of control - in comparison, Rey manages to find the stillness within herself and turn it against him.

Yes, exactly! Kylo Ren is simply not that good at the control that the Force has always been shown to require.

[anna0852]

What I meant (and could swear I read somewhere) was that Carrie had been complaining about how bland and functional her costuming had been. The infamous bikini was the response. Sort of 'be careful what you wish for.'

[MrsR]

Heh, I was just trying to quickly sum this film up for a friend who is dealing with sickness and won't be able to get out to see it and hit on something.

 

That this is the Wizard of Oz. 

 

In the end, Rey, the sweet good girl (Dorothy) ends up with the Lion, (Chewie), the Tin Man, (R2 D2) and the Scarecrow, (Luke).

 

And of course there is the Witch (Kylo) and the Wizard (Snoke).

 

 

[Jediknight]

Does that mean BB-8 is Toto?

[MisterGlass]

Finally had a chance to see this, and with a minimum of spoilers, and a long post follows.  As I walked out of the theater I just felt relieved.  It was good, and good enough.  I thought it did what it could to wipe the slate clean from the prequels and establish the new trilogy - which is why it echoed so many elements of the original trilogy.

 

The movie shone brightest in that first 45 minutes or so of Ren, Poe, BB-8, Finn, and Rey.  The introductions were perfect.  The action was on point, and so were the comedic notes.  There was a sharpness and intensity that sold the updated universe.  Finn and Rey are great leads.  Finn gave a great and needed glimpse into the life and mindset of the First Order soldiers.  This really isn't the same orderly, faceless Empire.  There are cracks showing, and they can be widened.  Finn was human enough to refuse to fire on villagers, brave enough to escape, and loyal enough to go after Rey.  They had good chemistry.  Even so, Rey sole the show.  I can see the basis of the argument that Rey's a Mary Sue, but I don't agree.

 

Rey is self-reliant, and on a harsh world that included the ability to fight and to understand the creatures she encountered.  At the same time, she is hampered by her desire to reunite with those who left her.  She can't move past it, and it ties her to a subsistence way of life, but it was clear that she could have been successful if she had been willing to make that leap and leave the planet before now.  Rey was even tempted by the offer to sell BB-8, even after having defended him from another scavenger.  She really, really wanted to say yes, and even started grabbing the food packets.  She made the right decision, but it wasn't easy.  Even when she escaped the planet she was still bound by the past.  She wanted to run back, not forward, interested as she was in the possibilities of another life.  She initially rejected the lightsaber and the visions.  She was overconfident in her ability to use the blaster, and ended up captured.  It was only when she was in peril that she could not escape through conventional means that she started to tap into her abilities.

 

I am in the camp that hopes Rey is a Skywalker, but was young enough when she was left on Jukka that she doesn't know herself.  Her rebel pilot doll and the rebel pilot helmet really mean something to her, so I think she knows she has a rebel background.  I also support the theory that she had begun training before being left on Jakku.  I suspect she had a guardian who has since died, perhaps before telling her the whole story.  The final scene really hit me.  The wordless interaction was intense and full of wonder.  They didn't need to speak.

 

It's odd to admit this but I felt like the movie got sidetracked when we got to Han and Chewie.  To an extent it became Han's story once he entered it.  Rey and Han liking each other is not a surprise, but I think they needed to show more time passing or more history for the relationship to have the strength they implied.  Much like Luke already knew Obi-wan at the start of A New Hope, it would have helped for Rey to know Han even if she thought he was just a ship captain and not the Han Solo.  If he had been trying to recruit her as a crew member off and on for a while, it would show a pre-existing respect.  And I think showing Poe's return to the Rebellion would have been nice.  They only cut between the storylines of Ren, Finn, and Rey.  I admire the restraint in sticking to the story at hand and trying to tell it well, though.

 

Kylo Ren worked until he took off the helmet.  I agree with those who felt that should have been saved for the end confrontation.  I think it was reasonable to reveal his identity beforehand, but there needed to be a little tension left when Han stepped on the bridge.  Han's death also bothered me because it was so abrupt.  I would have liked it better if he were distracting Ren from what Chewie was doing, or if he had intentionally gone looking for Ren rather than happening upon him.  Han deserved to go out with a little more panache. Ren as an incompletely trained emotional wreck was good, but I'm curious to see where it goes.  My initial reaction was also that Ren didn't look much like Han or Leia, and I think the jaw line is the big difference.  Both Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher have broader chins.  So do Mark Hamill and Daisy Ridley.  Wait...

 

It's been brought up before, but the Starkiller base fight felt redundant, and the conflict between the New Republic and the First Order, and the roll of the Rebellion is a bit hazy.  I understand some of this may be explained in supplementary material, but I don't like directors to rely to much on expanding the story in other mediums.  Outside Easter eggs are one thing, but it should not be necessary to do homework to fully appreciate the movie.

 

I could nitpick other things, but really I was happy with it, and the good characters and witty moments have me looking forward to the future.

[shrewd.buddha]

Just saw it and thought the following were top notch : acting, cast, action, pacing, special effects. It was a very enjoyable movie to watch. 

 

However, the story was just a slightly warmed-over version of the first Star Wars movie : starting with a battle, a droid with secret information, a desert planet, space scoundrels, and ending with taking down another (bigger) Death Star. Abrams makes a good movie, but as with Star Trek, he appears to be happy just to rehash familiar plots like a greatest hits collection. 

 

As others have pointed out, the entire story seems to take place in a few days time. That is typical for a lot of action movies but it doesn't really give the characters much time to realistically bond to one another - or explain why they would care so much when a relative stranger dies along the way. 

 

When Luke Skywalker first appeared almost 40 years ago, he and the other characters were fresh and unknown. Now it feels as it everything and everyone is already marked as iconic and nostalgic. Finn felt like the only 'new' character in the movie and it would be interesting to explore idea of Stormtroopers as actual individuals - - a bit. 

The movie basically sells itself and the filmmakers' biggest job is trying not to screw things up. 

Edited December 28, 2015 by shrewd.buddha

[benteen]

Re: Snoke being a woman: They could still go there. That hologram is just so over the top that it could easily be a piece of misdirection, and the actual supreme leader will turn out to be, oh, Natalie Dormer. I actually think a reveal that the image is false is very likely just because if they are going to do much with the character, keeping Snoke a CGI gigant would be impractical. 

 

Natalie Dormer as Snoke would be pretty awesome.

[hogwash]

I feel like I talked myself out of liking this movie. Though I don't think I could say I didn't like it. I can't even argue that it was a bad movie. It was a perfectly fine movie. It really reminded me of Star Trek (2009). I definitely watched Star Trek (2009). I definitely liked it when I watched it but I literally cannot describe the plot or any of the characters. Not even vaguely. Nothing about it stuck with me. But I don't care enough to watch it again and I haven't bothered with the sequels. 

 

Obviously, TFA was different. The plot drew close parallels to ANH and I really liked Rey, Finn, and Kylo Ren. Those characters are a big hook for the sequels. But I was so out of it by the strategizing with General Leia in the bunker scene. My biggest thing in this world of sequels, reboots, remakes, re-imaginings, re-whatevers was always that I've never really seen the point of watching a shiny new version of a movie I already liked. The shiny version usually just made me want to watch the movie I already liked. So you can kinda guess how watching TFA went for me...

 

I'm not disappointed or mad. It's just weird to me. I never thought I would feel like this after watching the new Star Wars movie. I thought I would walk out of the theaters humming the main theme, utterly enthralled. 

 

TL;DR I don't like remakes in my reboots. 

[AimingforYoko]

It is 2015, so any major popular culture hit like TFA most produce thinkpieces.

To wit, Vox.com: Is Rey a Mary Sue?

[Ruby25]

Carrie was asked to lose ten pounds when she was originally cast because her face was so chubby and round. 

 

Her serious cocaine habit was just getting going by the time Empire started. She and Harrison partied real hard during that shoot, and spent some quality time together, if you catch my drift.

Did they have a fling?

[MrsR]

Yes. He was divorced and she was in a on/off rocky relationship with Paul Simon who she later married, but at the time she had become briefly engaged to Dan Aykroyd. 

 

It was the start of her real bi-polar swings but everyone was using a lot of drugs so no one really noticed that she just wasn't a super secure sophisticated liberated lady. She really was in the beginning of her troubles.

 

Here's a little known fact about Harrison. He did make money as a carpenter to the stars while he was trying to make it in Hollywood, but his introduction to Lucas and Spielberg and Coppola and that whole gang was as a pot dealer.

Edited December 28, 2015 by MrsR

[anna0852]

So, a little art imitating life?

[jennifer6973]

I saw it for the first time today.

 

I loved it, and now I want to go to Ireland

 

 

Plus a question: My nephew wants to know Who was the Poe talking to in his first scenes?  Anybody important from the Original Trilogy?

Edited December 29, 2015 by jennifer6973

[caracas1914]

Loved it but of course I'm going to pick it apart:

Not another fucking Death Star. It's almost now like the latest IPhone version, just saying.

It seemed beyond petulant to put on a Darth Vader type mask just because. Are there Comic Cons in that Galaxy?

Lupita Nyongo is a gorgeous woman, as a flesh and blood screen person her character would have worked as well, actually probably better. I'm sorry but total CGI creations rarely work as well for me.

Edited December 29, 2015 by caracas1914

[Morrigan2575]

I saw it for the first time today.

I loved it, and now I want to go to Ireland

Plus a question: My nephew wants to know Who was the Poe talking to in his first scenes? Anybody important from the Original Trilogy?

He wasn't in the OT or PT. Here's his backstory, they really didn't do much to set him up.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lor_San_Tekka

[MisterGlass]

It is 2015, so any major popular culture hit like TFA most produce thinkpieces.

To wit, Vox.com: Is Rey a Mary Sue?

 

Interesting article, and it makes some fair points.  I've never really thought of Luke as a Marty Stu, mostly because his behavior is a bit juvenile when we first meet him.  He goes through a very real character arc over the course of the movies rather than emerging fully formed.  And as the article points out, it's premature to evaluate Rey without seeing where she goes.

 

Just for fun, the Star Wars cast plays "Star Wars or Florida?"

[Morrigan2575]

That was amusing, thanks for sharing

[Mars477]

Loved it but of course I'm going to pick it apart:

It seemed beyond petulant to put on a Darth Vader type mask just because. Are there Comic Cons in that Galaxy?

And in today's edition of "Completely Missing the Goddamn Point"...

[Danny Franks]

Lupita Nyongo is a gorgeous woman, as a flesh and blood screen person her character would have worked as well, actually probably better. I'm sorry but total CGI creations rarely work as well for me.

 

I've said it before, but any opportunity Lupita Nyong'o has to expand her tiny list of credits should be welcomed. She's barely done anything outside of the role that made her, and showing that she can do voicework on a huge movie simply adds another string to her bow, while happily giving her the chance to make a load of money.

 

She'll have plenty of opportunities to do more serious, worthy roles in the future.

 

He wasn't in the OT or PT. Here's his backstory, they really didn't do much to set him up.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lor_San_Tekka

 

I'm wondering if he'll be part of the Rogue One movie. That's set just before A New Hope, I understand, and this guy is apparently a contemporary and friend of Leia's. It would be a nice way of tying the movies together without being too heavy handed.

 

Also, looking back through this thread, here's what I said after seeing the movie poster:

 

So he's going to be a Jedi, is he? Or at least someone who is Force sensitive, and able to learn to be a Jedi (guess those midichlorians are working overtime. Am I right? Am I right?). This makes me hope that Daisy Ridley's character is not going to be a Jedi, because it's been too long since any significant character in the Star Wars universe wasn't a bloody Jedi or a Sith.

 

 

Heh. Tricksy movie. Yes, one of them is definitely going to be a Jedi, but it's not the one holding the lightsaber. I still don't think Finn showed any Force related abilities at all.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Danny Franks

[Trini]

She'll have plenty of opportunities to do more serious, worthy roles in the future.

 

I hope so; but the history of Black actresses in Hollywood says otherwise, but that's a whole other thread.

[Ravenya003]

Interesting article, and it makes some fair points.  I've never really thought of Luke as a Marty Stu, mostly because his behavior is a bit juvenile when we first meet him.  He goes through a very real character arc over the course of the movies rather than emerging fully formed.  And as the article points out, it's premature to evaluate Rey without seeing where she goes.

 

I saw the Mary Sue debate coming, but that doesn't make it any less irritating. I suppose there is some room for criticism over the fact that she picked up on using the Force so quickly, but I would place significant amounts of money on the fact that Rey HAS had Force training in her youth - she just doesn't remember it. Ever time she uses it in this film, it feels in the way the scenes play and in Daisy Ridley's performance that she's REMEMBERING something. It's called "The Force Awakens" for a reason - it's reawakening inside her.

[Joe]

I saw it again today. Four times in three weeks. I think I like it a little more every time I see it. I intend to go until I stop enjoying it. For some reason, I saw AOTC six times, I'd like to do that for a better movie. You'd think with all that I'd have some profound revelations or observations, but you'd be wrong. Only I notice little things. Luke's Theme plays twice during her fight with Ren. First when she grabs the lightsabre, second when they're blade to blade on the edge of the chasm.

 

Also, I noticed some familiar aliens from the OT. There's a Baragwin in Kanata's bar, one of the beings Finn approaches about a ride. A Lamproid at a table in the background, and a Kubaz.

 

On Jakku, when Rey is leaving with her portion the second time, there's a Gonk droid on the left and that Hensonesque creature from one of the Omaze videos on the right. Still haven't seen R2-KT, but maybe next time. Yes, I admit I'm desperately underemployed. I might not do this if I had anything better to occupy me. :)

[SNeaker]

Hopefully the fact that Finn is a hero, DID wield a lightsaber without any Force abilities, is the only unique concept in the movies, showed astonishing strength of character and will in defecting from the only life he's ever known for no other reason than recognizing it was wrong, and is basically adorable will mitigate any potential complaints about him not being a Jedi. Han is the most popular character in the series (I feel comfortable saying that), and he's no Jedi, so I think the audience is fine with heroes who aren't Force sensitive. Doing it without any special abilities only makes it more brave and honorable.

 

 

I saw the Mary Sue debate coming, but that doesn't make it any less irritating. I suppose there is some room for criticism over the fact that she picked up on using the Force so quickly, but I would place significant amounts of money on the fact that Rey HAS had Force training in her youth - she just doesn't remember it.

 

Yeah. Everything about Rey in this movie screamed someone who had repressed memories, either magically or psychologically. Even outside her abilities with the Force, knowing how to fly the Falcon or understanding Chewie could potentially be hints at skills she learned as an early child before being abandoned.

Edited December 29, 2015 by SNeaker

[Raja]

Loved it but of course I'm going to pick it apart:

Not another fucking Death Star. It's almost now like the latest IPhone version, just saying.

It seemed beyond petulant to put on a Darth Vader type mask just because. Are there Comic Cons in that Galaxy?

Lupita Nyongo is a gorgeous woman, as a flesh and blood screen person her character would have worked as well, actually probably better. I'm sorry but total CGI creations rarely work as well for me.

She stole Linds Hunt's role. It is what she played in Silverado and now NCIS

[Mars477]

I've actually seen people say that Finn is the movie's Jar Jar Binks. Which, considering that Jar Jar is basically a Minstrel show character, certainly is something.