Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)

[neverforgottenadam]

Rey is so obviously Luke's daughter. Just the way she is dressed, the flowy white top and pants, looks similar to Luke's appearance in Episode IV. Plus there is the resemblance to Padme Amidala.

I didn't find Kylo Ren to be as good a villain as I thought he would be. But I guess if I had a face that ugly I'd be ticked off at the world too. Regarding the comment up thread that teenage girls sighed and thought he was dreamy... I had a row of teenage girls behind me, and they snickered and went "ewwww".

I have understood the raves over Andy Serkis. I think 9 out of 10 actors could do what he does. Especially here, he was sitting in a chair.

I know he is a fave of JJ Abrams, but seeing Greg Grunberg really took me out of the movie. I was "oh, that guy again".

Overall, fantastic. Can't wait until the next one!

I thought he was a so so villain. For me it was more about the way his character was written than the actor, there were times were I felt his character could have been more darker. 

 

An article about Snoke, some spoilers.

http://www.techtimes.com/articles/117918/20151219/star-wars-the-force-awakens-who-is-supreme-leader-snoke.htm

[chitowngirl]

When Kylo Ren couldn't get the lightsaber to move and all of a sudden it shot right past him-I expected Luke to be the one to catch it. I was disappointed that we got 2 minutes of him.

[TVSpectator]

5.) Daniel Craig will be playing a Stormtrooper - a big WHO CARES. Silly because even if Craig hadn't vehemently denied it (sounding surprisingly offended), it wouldn't matter much if he HAD.

 

^^^This one seems to be true since it has been reported that he made the cameo as the Stormtrooper that had the lines.....

 

“I’ll tighten those restraints, scavenger scum,” Craig’s character responds, although few in the audience can be expected to register that it’s him. We only hear the actor’s clipped British diction and never see his face. (We’re not going to tell you what happens next.)

License to wear shiny white body armor approved.

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/17/daniel-craig-makes-cameo-star-wars-force-awakens

[thuganomics85]

 

I know he is a fave of JJ Abrams, but seeing Greg Grunberg really took me out of the movie. I was "oh, that guy again".

Yeah, I know Greg showing up in an Abrams film is a thing, but it totally took me out of the film for a second.  And then Ken Leung showed up as an admiral, and I was wondering if Abrams had all of the former Lost guys hanging around somewhere (OK, I would not be against Michael Emerson appearing as a member of the First Order...)

 

Why do I have a feeling Daniel Craig probably had more fun in that cameo as a stormtrooper, then he did during his entire time on Spectre?

Edited December 20, 2015 by thuganomics85

[OptimisticCynic]

I liked the film but personal bias is that I cannot stand Adam Driver. I find him so incredibly overrated and rolled my eyes at his villain. I hope they don't focus on him too much in the sequels as I'm really excited to see what Rian Johnson brings to it.

Also want more Poe. Oscar Isaac was underused and I want to see more!

[TVSpectator]

Yeah, I know Greg showing up in an Abrams film is a thing, but it totally took me out of the film for a second.  And then Ken Leung showed up as an admiral, and I was wondering if Abrams had all of the former Lost guys hanging around somewhere (OK, I would not be against Michael Emerson appearing as a member of the First Order...)

 

I know Grunberg from watching Heroes, and the whole time that I saw him I was saying to myself, "hey look Matt Parkman is a pilot for the resistance".

Edited December 20, 2015 by TVSpectator

[VCRTracking]

There's a clip of Rey's vision on Reddit and towards the end of it you hear what sounds like Obi-Wan saying "Rey!". They're saying they got Ewan McGregor back just to do that one line and this tweet from James Arnold Taylor(who did the voice for Obi-Wan on the Clone Wars and Rebels) seems to confirm it:

 

James Arnold Taylor Verified account ‏@JATactor 10h10 hours ago

@t_betts94 yes, it was me originally but they replaced my version with Ewan. I guess if I'm gonna be replaced it should be him!

 

[InsertWordHere]

Speaking of LOST, I thought I saw the Dharma symbol at one point. 

 

2) I thought CGI Snoke was terrible; almost laughable.  Not Serkis; he's always good.  I'm glad they didn't go with another lined old man for the Supreme Evil, but the HUGE hologram didn't work for me.  It was just silly IMO.  They could have come up with something better.

I am hoping this was done on purpose. I'm thinking he might be a Wizard of Oz type. All smoke and mirrors and not as powerful as he appears. 

[Rick Kitchen]

I'm hoping the real Snoke turns out to be like three feet tall.

[InsertWordHere]

I'm hoping the real Snoke turns out to be like three feet tall.

Judge me by my size, do you?

[SimoneS]

I just got back. I loved it! Yes, it is repetitive at moments, but the new generation of Ridley, Boyega, Isaac, and Driver are well cast and did a good job. Boyega has great comic timing and he had the people in my theatre laughing. I wonder if they are doing a romance between Finn and Rey or will they be best buds, while she ends up with redeemed Ren.

 

I was spoiled about Hans' death, but damn, it broke my heart. I know that Ren will likely be redeemed, but I want him to suffer painfully before that happens.

 

I wanted more then two minutes of Luke. I hope that he does not end up dying next.

 

Daniel Craig's cameo was so cool. I am jealous. 

Edited December 20, 2015 by SimoneS

[Brn2bwild]

Rey is so obviously Luke's daughter. Just the way she is dressed, the flowy white top and pants, looks similar to Luke's appearance in Episode IV. Plus there is the resemblance to Padme Amidala.

 

Also, did it seem like Leia immediately knew who she was, and vice versa?  That embrace wasn't one you'd give a stranger.  More like a "Welcome home, I missed you" embrace.  Plus, why would Leia trust a stranger alone to travel to Luke to give him his light saber?

 

 

I refuse to believe that Domhnall Gleason is a bad guy.  He's one of those actors that I've liked in everything, I don't want to dislike him.  :)

 

 

 

When I first saw him, I thought: "So he's playing Percy Weasley, like he did in the Harry Potter movies."  Well, it wasn't Percy he played, but it was close. ;)

Edited December 20, 2015 by Brn2bwild

[Ruby25]

I'd really prefer it if Rey turned out to be of the Kenobi line instead. I hope they go that route.

[anna0852]

 

I was spoiled about Hans' death, but damn, it broke my heart. I know that Ren will likely be redeemed, but I want him to suffer painful before that happens.

 

I don't think Ren will be redeemed. I think Leia going to nail his hide to the wall. Whether she does it herself or provides the assist to someone else (likely Rey), Ren is dead.

[lovemytvshows]

I'm starting to get annoyed (partly because I've immersed myself in all the speculation surrounding Rey's parentage) that they answered nothing about Rey's backstory and left us with pure speculation until 2017 arghhhh!

While I'm hoping that they would just go with the speculation and make Rey turn out to be Luke's kid, I can't shake the feeling that the producers might want to pull a cheap "Gotcha!" moment on the audience, just because they know we are all expecting the reveal that Luke is her father. And in a way to one-up fan speculation, they end up making her Hux's second cousin twice removed or something ridiculous. That would be such a cop out come 2017.

And there's nothing wrong with it being predictable because there's a whole wealth of backstory to be telling regarding Rey's mother and her childhood and why Luke had to abandon her.

[VCRTracking]

I think part of keeping the speculation going was Abrams obsesson about the "mystery box" and also servicing Episode VIII written and directed by Rian Johnson. From a Wired interview with Abrams:

 

The script for VIII is written. I’m sure rewrites are going to be endless, like they always are. But what [Kasdan] and I did was set up certain key relationships, certain key questions, conflicts. And we knew where certain things were going. We had meetings with Rian and Ram Bergman, the producer of VIII. They were watching dailies when we were shooting our movie. We wanted them to be part of the process, to make the transition to their film as seamless as possible. I showed Rian an early cut of the movie, because I knew he was doing his rewrite and prepping.

 

Rian has asked for a couple of things here and there that he needs for his story. He is an incredibly accomplished filmmaker and an incredibly strong writer. So the story he told took what we were doing and went in the direction that he felt was best but that is very much in line with what we were thinking as well.

 

 

 

I thought he was a so so villain. For me it was more about the way his character was written than the actor, there were times were I felt his character could have been more darker.

 

The point was that he was still struggling with the light side inside and it finally took killing Han to push him over completely to the Dark. Again, this is the first time I've seen Adam Driver in anything and I thought he was great. He kind of reminds me of Jose Ferrer.

Edited December 20, 2015 by VCRTracking

[Crs97]

I saw it yesterday and loved it! My completely unknowledgeable speculation is that Rey (strong with the force) and Poe (amazing fighter pilot) will be Luke's long-lost twins. Hope Mark Hamill gets more to do in later movies; otherwise if I were he I would be asking why I had to lose 50 pounds for that.

Full disclosure: I was 10 when ANH came out. I always loved Luke so I loved ROTJ only because he was finally a Jedi respected by the others. His "I am a Jedi like my father before me" still makes me smile.

[jcin617]

The point was that he was still struggling with the light side inside and it finally took killing Han to push him over completely to the Dark.

What I did like was the twist on the "seduced by the power of the dark side" to show the villain freely admit he was still being drawn to the light side.    And that it was the dark side parallel to Luke's "you must face your father" trial.

[SimoneS]

I don't think Ren will be redeemed. I think Leia going to nail his hide to the wall. Whether she does it herself or provides the assist to someone else (likely Rey), Ren is dead.

 

I simply cannot imagine them not redeeming Hans and Leia's son even if it is like Vader, just before he dies. There is simply too much compelling drama to pass up, but we'll see.

 

 

Also, did it seem like Leia immediately knew who she was, and vice versa?  That embrace wasn't one you'd give a stranger.  More like a "Welcome home, I missed you" embrace.  Plus, why would Leia trust a stranger alone to travel to Luke to give him his light saber?

 

I am confident that Leia who is strong in the Force sensed the Force in Rey and saw the potential for her to become Luke's new Padawan. Besides, Luke is a Jedi Master at this stage. Rey poses absolutely no danger to him and she was with Chewy and R2 after all. 

 

I have to add that I am not the biggest Adam Driver fan either, but I thought he was great as Ren. He was like a completely different actor playing a compelling role. He also looked much better looking that I think that he is.

 

ETA: I agree with the comments about Carrie Fisher's voice. I was pretty shocked when she spoke. She is a good singer, but she must have drank and smoked a lot to do that kind of damage to her voice.

Edited December 20, 2015 by SimoneS

[SeanC]

ETA: I agree with the comments about Carrie Fisher's voice. I was pretty shocked when she spoke. She is a good singer, but she must have drank and smoked a lot to do that kind of damage to her voice.

Yeah, that was my only problem with her performance.  Her voice is so flat an affectless at this point that it feels very out of place in most of her scenes, particularly when she's discussing highly emotional matters.  I feel bad about noting this, since it's a result of all the crap she's had to deal with in her life, but it took me out of the movie.

[lion10]

So I really really liked this movie!  The sets looked beautiful and I connected with the new trio of Finn, Rey, and Poe.  I thought that there were a lot of callbacks to A New Hope which for the most part I liked.  I didn't like how they made Finn the comedy relief most of the time, it felt like they were rehashing a tired stereotype.  There were a couple of things that didn't make sense to me.  One was Finn not knowing what BB-8 was saying.  I don't think there was ever a moment in the latest trilogy with Anakin and Obi-Wan where someone had to have a droid translated for them.  They just knew what the beeps and whirs meant and then factor in the fact that Finn's an elite stormtrooper...why wouldn't they teach him the droid language, especially since he's been trained since he was a toddler?  The second was I felt like Rey progressed too fast in the Force.  How did she know to do a Jedi mind trick when she knew the Jedi existed only a couple of days ago?  How would that occur for her to use a mind trick?  And then how did Kylo Ren lose to Rey?  Here's a guy who's been trained in the ways of the Dark Side and casually stops and holds a blaster bolt in mid-air and he gets beaten by a woman who's never seen a lightsaber before?  I know she's adept with her staff but fighting with a two-handed blunt weapon is a lot different than fighting with a longsword-type bladed weapon.  Neither Luke or Anakin progressed that fast. 

 

Snoke (Snoak?) wasn't nearly as menacing as Sidious was but it's only the first movie, we'll see how he shakes out.  I also really want to know what's the political divide between the Republic and the Resistance.

 

When Finn was fighting Kylo Ren, this is what I thought of:

Edited December 20, 2015 by lion10

[Proclone]

I suspect naming their son "Ben" was more for the audience reaction.  It would make more sense for Luke to name a potential son Ben (in the original EU, he does).  It would have made more sense for Han and Leia to call their son "Bail" after her adopted father Bail Organa.  But I think Ben was more for the audience.  Though it's slightly funny that Han named his son after crazy old Ben.

 

Sorry to beat on a dead horse, I'm sure that's exactly why they named him Ben.  But I honestly wonder if people who aren't hardcore Star Wars fans would get it anyway.  Obi Wan was only called Ben by Luke (which is still why it bothers me Leia would name her son that instead of Obi Wan even if she did want to name her son after him). The the name Obi Wan Kenobi is part of the culture, I'm not sure Ben Kenobi is. I think some causal fan might just as confused as why Han and Leia's kid is named Ben as they would be if be if he was named Bail.  Hardcore fans would get either reference, so why not just go with the one that makes more sense. 

 

Of course if that's the biggest nit I have to pick with this movie, that means it was pretty darn great IMO.

 

 

This is what I'm wondering. If they make Rey Luke's daughter, as seems to be the case, that means they've got to come up with a whole backstory for a wife/relationship he had offscreen. Whoever her mother is would have to be a pretty important new character, right? I guess they could just brush it off, but since we never saw him interested in anyone in except Leia (ew) in the old ones, it would feel like we missed something pretty important in his life if they don't even go into it.

 

Also, how could Han and Leia raise a kid so awful that he turns to the Dark Side and murders his own father? And doesn't he know how his grandfather died? Wouldn't someone committed to the dark side be more in tune with the symbolism of a figure like The Emperor rather than Vader?

 

As long a Rey isn't born from a virgin, I think I'll be OK with whoever her parents are, honestly.  Though I am excited to find out.

 

Actually I think Ren and Finn contrast each other nicely.  Ren (or Ben) was raised in what I would assume was a loving family.  He turns his back on all that and goes to the dark side.  Finn was kidnapped as an infant and raised to be a solider and to follow orders no mater what, the first time he's ordered to kill someone he can't bring himself to do it.  While I don't discount the importance of upbringing, I think at the end of the day the moral they're trying to tell (or at least the one I see) is that ultimately you are responsible for your own choices and actions.  Ren chose his path, it isn't Han or Leia or Luke's fault that he did, it's his own.  Just as it was Finn choice not to kill anyone on the planet, to help save Poe, and to go to the Star Killer planet to save Rey.  A hero or villain is made by their choices.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Proclone

[VCRTracking]

At EW.com JJ Abrams confirms that he used both Ewan McGregor and Alec Guinness' voice along with Frank Oz as Yoda for the movie:
 

 

“You do hear a little bit of Yoda. You hear Luke yelling out, ‘Nooo!’ from that moment in Empire. And you hear Obi-Wan at the end say, ‘Rey … these are your first steps,’” Abrams says. “Here’s the cool part. We asked Ewan McGregor to come in and do the line. And he was awesome and we were very grateful. He was incredibly sweet and handsome, and all that stuff. Then he rode off on his motorcycle. Literally the coolest voice over actor ever.”

As they worked on editing the dream sequence, Bryan Burk, a longtime Bad Robot collaborator and one of the producers of the film, surprised Abrams one day with the gift of a single word: Obi-Wan Kenobi’s voice saying the name “Rey …”

“I said, ‘That’s cool, is that the thing from Ewan McGregor?’” Abrams recalled. “He said ‘No, we took a line from Alec Guinness saying ‘Afraid.’”

 

Frank Oz, a veteran of The Muppets who puppeteered Yoda and supplied his voice in the earlier movies, also contributed new dialogue for The Force Awakens, although Abrams says they ended up using pre-existing elements of the little green Jedi master’s voice.

“He was incredibly generous and came in to Bad Robot, where we had a recording area, and he was doing Yoda, saying a number of lines we gave to him,” Abrams says. “This whole experience has been one outrageous moment after another. Just watching Frank Oz, you look at him and talk to him and his voice is very deep. I don’t know why I would have thought he sounded like Miss Piggy!”

 

 

Also why he didn't answer the questions of Rey's backstory in this movie:

 

As for what Rey’s dream sequence doesn’t reveal … Abrams and Kasdan said they knew they had to suggest her backstory, but everyone felt The Force Awakens would be the wrong place to dive too deeply into Rey’s past. “We’re hoping Rian Johnson can figure that out,” Kasdan joked. “We were really stymied!”

Of course, they do know who Rey is, where she comes from, and why she was abandoned. But Abrams says part of the appeal of the new trilogy will be spreading out those revelations.

“Everyone who has seen these movies thinks about ‘I am your father …’ and ‘There is another …’,” the director said. “But neither of those things were in [1977’s original] Star Wars. Star Wars didn’t say Luke was the son of Vader. Star Wars didn’t say Leia was the sister of Luke. You didn’t understand what these references were: the Empire, dark times, Clone Wars. There were these things that were discussed that don’t get explained. George [Lucas] dropped you into a story and respected you to infer everything necessary to understand what you need to know.”

 

The Force Awakens does confirm the family relationships of villain Kylo Ren, and Abrams felt that was enough. “Can this movie actually also hold, ‘And Rey is this … And Finn is that … And this is where Poe is from …’ This is the first of a series. There is a story to be told. And it will be.”

 

 

Edited December 20, 2015 by VCRTracking

[TVSpectator]

So I really really liked this movie!  The sets looked beautiful and I connected with the new trio of Finn, Rey, and Poe.  I thought that there were a lot of callbacks to A New Hope which for the most part I liked.  I didn't like how they made Finn the comedy relief most of the time, it felt like they were rehashing a tired stereotype.  There were a couple of things that didn't make sense to me.  One was Finn not knowing what BB-8 was saying.  I don't think there was ever a moment in the latest trilogy with Anakin and Obi-Wan where someone had to have a droid translated for them.  They just knew what the beeps and whirs meant and then factor in the fact that Finn's an elite stormtrooper...why wouldn't they teach him the droid language, especially since he's been trained since he was a toddler?  

 

The way I see it was that Finn was abducted from his parents probably when he was either a very young toddler or an infant. Also, they put him mostly on sanitation duty in the past so, why would you teach a janitor droid language?

[anna0852]

I simply cannot imagine them not redeeming Hans and Leia's son even if it is like Vader, just before he dies. There is simply too much compelling drama to pass up, but we'll see.

 

I don't think Ren can be redeemed. Han's death was cold blooded murder, pure and simple. Stacked on top of who-knows-how-many other deaths and crimes.

 

Then again, I'm one of those people that doesn't think Vader was redeemed either, just because he had a change of heart about 1 person about 10 minutes before he died. Yes, Vader saved Luke's life. It doesn't negate the younglings blood on his lightsaber or the torture of his daughter or or the multiple attempts to kill/twist his son. Or you know, all the other countless lives he's ended or ruined.

Edited December 20, 2015 by anna0852

[lion10]

The way I see it was that Finn was abducted from his parents probably when he was either a very young toddler or an infant. Also, they put him mostly on sanitation duty in the past so, why would you teach a janitor droid language?

 

The impression I got was that was his work duty while he was at the base during the time he wasn't being trained as a stormtrooper.  Kind of like recruits will do menial tasks around the base when they're not actively training.  

[VCRTracking]

I didn't like how they made Finn the comedy relief most of the time, it felt like they were rehashing a tired stereotype.

 

The character wasn't written for a black character. They cast a net out for actors for any ethnicity for Finn and Rey(which only proves Rey's mother could have been any race, but Luke could still be her dad). I read that Jesse Plemons from Friday Night Lights and Breaking Bad, had auditioned for the movie. If it had been for Finn who I definitely see playing him similar to the FNL but without the Texas accent. The role could have gone to an actor like Shia LeBouf  which would have made him more dorkier.

Edited December 20, 2015 by VCRTracking

[revbfc]

I think Kylo Ren can be sort of redeemed. Though I do suspect he will be killed, I can see him turning back to the light and putting himself into exile (like Luke, but with a lot more guilt and self loathing). I also see Ben Solo as the key to episodes X-XII.

Adam Driver rules, and Kylo Ren has caught my imagination.

[Brn2bwild]

The character wasn't written for a black character. They cast a net out for actors for any ethnicity for Finn and Rey(which only proves Rey's mother could have been any race, but Luke could still be her dad). I read that Jesse Plemons from Friday Night Lights and Breaking Bad, had auditioned for the movie. If it had been for Finn who I definitely see playing him similar to the FNL but without the Texas accent. The role could have gone to an actor like Shia LeBouf  which would have made him more dorkier.

 

I felt like the goofiness made Finn more relatable.  It wasn't just "Oh, here's the black sidekick."  He was vulnerable, had a character arc and a wide range of emotions, etc.

[nilyank]

I think for all of Finn's comic moments, they also showed how incredibly heroic he was. He refused to kill innocent villagers despite a lifetime of training, he saved Poe (even if also to save himself by having a pilot to get out of there), he ran towards Rey when it appears that she was being attacked, he ran back to help Rey when the First Order came and generally putting himself at risk to save his friends. 

Edited December 20, 2015 by nilyank

[TVSpectator]

The impression I got was that was his work duty while he was at the base during the time he wasn't being trained as a stormtrooper.  Kind of like recruits will do menial tasks around the base when they're not actively training.  

 

I don't know, the impression that I got was that he didn't have enough field experience and when it was his first time to attack/raid a village and then to kill everyone he just freaked out. Like he was mostly use to doing only non-combatant jobs that didn't involve actual combat, but like everyone else he went through basic training and he probably also was responsible for some non-combat job, like sanitation. So, he does know how to hold and use a blaster, like everyone else, but he didn't have enough experience to hold it together during a simple raid mission and freaked out during the combat. 

Edited December 20, 2015 by TVSpectator

[SnoGirl]

I just got back from this and I can't wait to go back and see it again!

The girl power was strong in this one. Females everywhere, including droids! My heart sang for the future generation of girls who will see this and have all sorts of heroes to love! I loved the Captain (even though the part was tiny. But so was Bobba Fett and look where they got him). I loved seeing Carrie Fisher's real daughter in the war room. I loved Leia's General role. I loved Maz and her glasses. I hope we get to see her again.

But most of all, I loved Rey. I loved her taking charge of her and Finn's escape with the Falcon. I choked back tears when she stole the Lightsaber from right under Ren's nose. He looked freaked out when she did. Like others, I thought we were going to see Luke here, but when it was Rey, I almost cheered. A little boy in our theater actually did and it was awesome! Hands down, my favorite part of the movie.

I really liked all the new characters. They underused Poe, and I hope we get to see him interact more with Finn and Rey next time around. My Dad started counting all the fighters Poe took out during the scene of the attack at Maz's. He got to nine before he stopped counting because the smile on his face was so huge.

I can't wait to see it again. It made me feel like a kid again, and I could not stop smiling. Star Wars was a big deal in my family (so many geeky Uncles in my family) and seeing this with my Dad was awesome.

[SimoneS]

But most of all, I loved Rey. I loved her taking charge of her and Finn's escape with the Falcon. 

 

I cracked up when Rey kept asking Finn why he was taking her hand as if she was girl in need of rescue and then when he got knocked down, she gave him her hand to help him up. After watching this young talented diverse cast in the movie, I understood why the usual suspects on the Internet and social media were outraged and making all the misogynistic and racist comments along with cries about political correctness in Star Wars. 

Edited December 20, 2015 by SimoneS

[VCRTracking]

Well the backlash against Rey and accusations of her being a Mary Sue most notably Max Landis(son of John and writer of Chronicle) have begun. Yes, she's a Mary Sue in terms of abilities, but growing up alone on Jakku she had to be. She had to be self-reliant in order to survive. To be good with mechanics, to understand other languages, to fly, to fight. And in terms of her sudden Force abilities once she touched the lightsaber and had the visions I knew there was something more to this girl. During the interrogation her will grew stronger and also during the fight with Kylo. The second point is that everybody likes her. Well why wouldn't they? The only people she's come across are BB-8(whom she rescued) Finn(who's smitten), Han and Chewie(who are impressed with her flying and mechanical aptitude) and Maz(who senses there's a painful secret). Kylo Ren is both aghast but impressed by her abilities and wants to train her(which speaks more well to him). Now Leia is a special case. I really think she knows she's someone closely connected to her. As another posted, that's not how you hug a stranger.

Edited December 20, 2015 by VCRTracking

[anna0852]

Well there couldn't be Jedi legacies in the old model. Jedi were like priests. No marriage, no relationships, no kids. Anakin and Padme broke a big rule. Clearly Force abilities run in the Skywalker family at least.

[bluvelvet]

I don't think Ren can be redeemed. Han's death was cold blooded murder, pure and simple. Stacked on top of who-knows-how-many other deaths and crimes.

 

 

That's exactly how I feel. 

 

So of course I had to rewatch the original Star Wars and I was struck by a similarity between Kylo and Luke.  Luke had a choice to kill his father who he knew had done numerous atrocities and he still chose not to do it and go to the dark side. Kylo had the choice to kill his father who was a hero and he went ahead to fully convert to the dark side. 

 

Here's hoping that Rey is of the Kenobi line of Jedi, maybe the grand daughter of a Kenobi brother or sister..

[SNeaker]

Well there couldn't be Jedi legacies in the old model. Jedi were like priests. No marriage, no relationships, no kids. Anakin and Padme broke a big rule. Clearly Force abilities run in the Skywalker family at least.

 

Right. And the reason people assumed from the trailers that she was an Organa/Solo is because Han and Leia were an actual couple in the movies who ended the first trilogy together and Daisy Ridley has the same look as both Carrie and Natalie. I think it's safe to say that most people assumed over the years that Luke would go on to restart the Jedi knights and that Leia and Han would produce children to redeem the family (which makes the fact that their son has now turned evil and the one to destroy Luke's work all the more bleak.) It's what happened in the books. The reason why I personally want Rey to be a Skywalker or Solo is because I do want a "good" Jedi in the family line and because yeah, the main series is about this family. I'll take her being Luke's daughter, but I'd prefer her to be a Solo (perhaps hidden from her parents who were told she was dead after Ben went evil) just so that Han can have had a child who wasn't a lame emo. One that he had the chance to get to know before he died. The only thing that intrigues me about the upcoming movies and makes me still anticipate them given my disappointment with how derivative and pointless this one was is the potential for exploration of the Luke/Leia/Ben/Rey relationships. If Rey's not in the family, I don't really see the point of the story at all.

 

 

“Everyone who has seen these movies thinks about ‘I am your father …’ and ‘There is another …’,” the director said. “But neither of those things were in [1977’s original] Star Wars. Star Wars didn’t say Luke was the son of Vader. Star Wars didn’t say Leia was the sister of Luke. You didn’t understand what these references were: the Empire, dark times, Clone Wars. There were these things that were discussed that don’t get explained. George [Lucas] dropped you into a story and respected you to infer everything necessary to understand what you need to know.”

 

I totally picked up on the fact that JJ did this deliberately to mimic the first movie (as he did pretty much *everything* in mimicry of the first movie), but I think it was a huge misstep. It's NOT the first movie. It's the seventh in a series. It's one thing to plop us into a brand new movie but have the characters say things that imply a long and deep history of a rich universe without needing to explain things. But you can't continue an existing story thirty years later without explaining what happened in the preceding thirty years. Instead of enriching the story, it takes away from the depth. I have a long and deep connection to Han. But I have NO connection to his son. Without showing me their relationship, without making me understand what it was like when it was good -- when it was loving and warm -- I couldn't feel the true impact of Han's betrayal by his son. He got killed by a person who is a virtual stranger to me and whom I have no personal investment in.

Edited December 20, 2015 by SNeaker

[SimoneS]

I am fine whatever they decide about Rey's parentage, but if she is Luke's child, I hope that it turns out that he did not know about her. If she is a Skywalker, I hope that we find out that Leia sensed it otherwise it would not be believable.

 

I am okay with JJ Abrams keeping secrets for the second two movies. I don't think we need to have a connection to Ren as yet. In the first movie, I certainly did not have a connection to Vader, especially after he killed Ben. However, this changed by the third movie when I was hoping that Vader would make a different choice. Maybe by the third movie, it will the same with Ren. I think that despite killing Han, Leia's love for her son and hope that he will make a different choice with Luke and Rey could be compelling drama. 

Edited December 20, 2015 by SimoneS

[nilyank]

 

Well there couldn't be Jedi legacies in the old model. Jedi were like priests. No marriage, no relationships, no kids. Anakin and Padme broke a big rule. Clearly Force abilities run in the Skywalker family at least.

 

Considering how hot I found Ewan's Obi Wan, I always wanted him to have some secret dalliances. It kind of sucks that being Jedi means being celibate. No wonder Kylo Ren went dark as a teen.

[BW Manilowe]

I just got back. I loved it! Yes, it is repetitive at moments, but the new generation of Ridley, Boyega, Isaac, and Driver are well cast and did a good job. Boyega has great comic timing and he had the people in my theatre laughing. I wonder if they are doing a romance between Finn and Rey or will they be best buds, while she ends up with redeemed Ren.

I was spoiled about Hans' death, but damn, it broke my heart. I know that Ren will likely be redeemed, but I want him to suffer painfully before that happens.

I wanted more then two minutes of Luke. I hope that he does not end up dying next.

Daniel Craig's cameo was so cool. I am jealous.

Could I offer a small correction? The character you've called "Hans", with an S at the end (in the quoted post & the 1 you wrote after) is just called "Han", with NO S at the end.

Edited December 20, 2015 by BW Manilowe

[InsertWordHere]

The reason why I personally want Rey to be a Skywalker or Solo is because I do want a "good" Jedi in the family line and because yeah, the main series is about this family. I'll take her being Luke's daughter, but I'd prefer her to be a Solo (perhaps hidden from her parents who were told she was dead after Ben went evil) just so that Han can have had a child who wasn't a lame emo. One that he had the chance to get to know before he died. 

This is exactly how I feel. I want her to be Han's because I want something good to have come from the Han and Leia union, not just for Han but for Leia too. Leia's lost Han. She's lost her son to the Dark Side. She's lost her brother too although hopefully they will meet again before this is over. Let her gain a daughter. It would even redeem what IMO is the film's big error of not showing a grieving moment between Leia and Chewie because instead of Leia ignoring Han's oldest friend, she would be comforting her newly rediscovered daughter. 

[lion10]

Well the backlash against Rey and accusations of her being a Mary Sue most notably Max Landis(son of John and writer of Chronicle) have begun. Yes, she's a Mary Sue in terms of abilities, but growing up alone on Jakku she had to be. She had to be self-reliant in order to survive. To be good with mechanics, to understand other languages, to fly, to fight. And in terms of her sudden Force abilities once she touched the lightsaber and had the visions I knew there was something more to this girl. During the interrogation her will grew stronger and also during the fight with Kylo. The second point is that everybody likes her. Well why wouldn't they? The only people she's come across are BB-8(whom she rescued) Finn(who's smitten), Han and Chewie(who are impressed with her flying and mechanical aptitude) and Maz(who senses there's a painful secret). Kylo Ren is both aghast but impressed by her abilities and wants to train her(which speaks more well to him). Now Leia is a special case. I really think she knows she's someone closely connected to her. As another posted, that's not how you hug a stranger.

I don't think she's a Mary Sue and I liked her character but she does raise questions. The biggest one is how did she manage to beat Kylo Ren, a guy that the movie established as a powerful Force user? The same guy who stopped a blaster bolt in mid-air manages to lose to someone who's never held a lightsaber before? And the Jedi mind trick is something that I find hard to believe because how would that even occur to her to use that?

[ybrik]

Finally able to see the movie and I really liked it. Was kind of a bit sad that everything had gone so wrong for our heroes after ROTJ. I always loved the ending of ROTJ and hoped/thought they would get the happy ending. However, this movie was what I hoped for and I am excited for where the series goes from here.

 

I can understand the criticism about it being too much like the OT particularily ANH but that didn't really bother me. I think JJ did a good job of making a movie that can be built open with new characters that are interesting. He reintroduced a world that was closer to the OT than the prequels were. Both the way that the world seems realistic and lived in aka not overly cgi'd and also making the force seem mystical.

 

I was spoiled over most of the major points so there weren't any real surprises. However, I like the rest of the audience did gasp at Han's death. I was also surprised that Kylo's real name was Ben.

 

My only real complaint for the movie was end. I would have like something to have been said.

 

Rey's family may be as simple as her being Luke's daughter but the real mystery may be who the mother is. I wonder if one of the side movies will end up introducing the mother. I keep thinking that maybe the mother may be Obi Wan's daughter and one of the side movies could be an Obi Wan movie during the time between ROTS and ANH. I think Rey being the granddaughter of Obi Wan and Anakin would be an interesting dynamic.

 

Speaking of Rey, liked the character. Didn't have a problem with her being too Mary Sue-ish or too powerful. She was someone who has had to fend for herself for so long that she has had to make herself strong to survive. I also think her story won't be about finding her power like Luke but more like Anakin in trying to harness it without going over to the dark side. In her fight with Kylo at the end, it really looked like she was going to kill him if it weren't for the planet erupting. I can see her struggling with her anger/power and Luke having to help her so she doesn't turn like Kylo.

 

Also interested to see how Kylo was turned to the dark side and what he believes about Vader. Also not bothered by him losing the fight at the end as he was already wounded by Chewy. Wondering who Snoke is going to be and also is he trying to rebuild the Sith or this going to be a new practitioner of the Dark Side.

 

Liked both Finn and Poe. I really hope that in the next movie to learn more about Poe but also to have an adventure with Rey, Finn and Poe altogether with of course BB-8.

 

Of course, I think what really made this a positive experience was when I was leaving the theater was a mother telling her daughter, "Yes that Rey is really special just like my Rey." Seeing the kids there and seeing the excitement really made me remember why I love these movies and gives me hope for the future movies.

[briochetwist]

I don't know, the impression that I got was that he didn't have enough field experience and when it was his first time to attack/raid a village and then to kill everyone he just freaked out. Like he was mostly use to doing only non-combatant jobs that didn't involve actual combat, but like everyone else he went through basic training and he probably also was responsible for some non-combat job, like sanitation. So, he does know how to hold and use a blaster, like everyone else, but he didn't have enough experience to hold it together during a simple raid mission and freaked out during the combat. 

Wow, totally the opposite of what I thought was going on. Simply put, he's a trained Stormtrooper, who despite his lifetime of training to be a cold-hearted killer, can't bring himself to do it in battle, because that's not who he is. Kylo Ren didn't notice him because he wasn't trained well, I think he felt the light in him and knew he wasn't the same as the others. He actually reminded me of Han Solo, someone thrown into this world for maybe the wrong reasons, but ends up becoming an important ally in the fight against evil.

[Rick Kitchen]

I imagine that Ben will wind up sacrificing himself at the end of the trilogy in order to redeem himself.

[anna0852]

This is exactly how I feel. I want her to be Han's because I want something good to have come from the Han and Leia union, not just for Han but for Leia too. Leia's lost Han. She's lost her son to the Dark Side. She's lost her brother too although hopefully they will meet again before this is over. Let her gain a daughter. It would even redeem what IMO is the film's big error of not showing a grieving moment between Leia and Chewie because instead of Leia ignoring Han's oldest friend, she would be comforting her newly rediscovered daughter. 

That's exactly how I felt. Finn might be a adrift and figuring out his place and Rey might have been left by her family on Jakku but Leia just keeps getting kicked in the teeth. Loses her family in her late teens, then goes on to keep fighting the good fight and eventually build another family. Only to have her son turn dark (and I really want to know how that happened. I have a hard time believing it was due to a crappy upbringing) and until proven otherwise, her daughter potentially dead/hidden (I firmly believe that Rey is Han and Leia's kid as well). Her brother takes off for parts unknown and her marriage breaks down. She's going to be spending the next 30 years still working against the evil government that took out her parents, with no end in sight either. Her ex-resurfaces and while they aren't screaming at each other, it's clear neither has had any closure with the other. And before that closure can happen, her son murders his father while she's listening. Her son might be alive but he's irrevocably gone and she's never going to *get* closure with her ex.

 

If Leia doesn't have an alcohol/drug problem by now I firmly believe she is entitled to one after all of that shit.

[anna0852]

Well it could be both. Up until Jedi start procreating, it could have been that the Force genetic mutation occurred regularly enough to keep the numbers up. And because of the whole celibacy thing it wasn't realized that the trait could be inherited as well. Now that celibate Jedi appear to be a thing of the past, they might find their numbers exploding. You'll have both spontaneous genetic mutation Jedi and inherited Jedi as well.

 

Or it could just be that the Skywalker line indeed has something wrong with it (as these are so far the only Jedi we know to have had children) and no further generations should be considered :-)

[Rick Kitchen]

Is Yoda still alive?

[anna0852]

If we go by the movie-verse only (which at this point we have to, since the whole EU just got Jossed) then Ben/Kylo is the only known Organa/Solo kid. Which why I agree with the poster that wants Rey to turn out to be Han and Leia's as well. 

 

I think her ease with the Falcon points to her being theirs. 

 

As to how she ended up on Jakku, that's a story for the next movies. I'm subscribing to the theory that she was thought killed when Kylo went off the rails and was hidden by person's unknown. That would also explain Luke sending himself into exile. Not only did he mess up his nephew's training (or at least not recognize in time that the kid had issues) but his niece was killed as well by her brother.  How does he face those children's parents after that?

 

Also explains what appears to be an age different between Rey and Kylo. If she was young, he might not recognize her now.

[Ruby25]

Did they actually say that Han and Leia were married? Or is everyone just assuming that because they had a kid? She's still Leia Organa, so she never changed her name. Not that that necessarily means anything, but I was just wondering.