S02.E10: And They Were Enemies

[Tara Ariano]

Season 2 ends with Vanessa relying on her strength to defeat the demon.

[dargosmydaddy]

Well, damn... that was depressing.

 

And Victor lost my affection as soon as he shot Brona, but are we supposed to believe he killed himself in the end?

[raven]

Not happy about Sembene!  I knew I was living in a fool's paradise :(

 

So our Wolf of God killed one of the good guys, killed Evelyn when she was already essentially defeated and that was the witches' big worry.   At least Mr. Lyle got a shot in too.  And damn the other witches go down easy with a bullet or two or three.  I do hope Hecate is gone for good, the actress is no Helen McCrory, who was fantastic all season IMO. 

 

I did get laugh at the sheepish looks on Malcolm's and Victor's faces when they realized it was just the two of them in the room. 

 

Yeah, Demon Doll had no chance against Vanessa.  I don't know if anyone other than Eva Green could have pulled that scene off - I love this show but the doll talking so much was a bit goofy.   So we have her answer when the priest asked her the end of last season if it was worth it to be special.  The normal vision was pretty cute though.  Not as gothically heartwarming as reaching out to touch Ethan's wolf face *sigh*  She did burn the crucifix though, so there's a victory for evil right there, if she permanently turns away from her faith.

 

Vanessa's true gift is accepting everyone no matter their faults and calling them friend, whether you're undead, a werewolf, an addict or the worst father/husband/colonialist ever.  Just don't be evil and try to kill her or her friends.

 

Had to give a cheer when Caliban broke out of the cell and did some bashing.  End of that subplot!  As usual, his scene with Vanessa was A+, so heartwarming that even with the REALLY bad day he's had, he still tried to buck her up.  We got a true Frankenstein's monster ending for him, straight out of the book (more or less, I think he was actually sitting on an ice floe at the end of the book).  Maybe I'm used to him, but I don't think he's as horrifyingly ugly as everyone else seems to think.

 

Great set up for next season - we may meet Ethan's father, Lily & Dorian are committed to Evil, the gang is separated, maybe Sembene will rise up somehow in Africa?  I can hope!

 

 

And Victor lost my affection as soon as he shot Brona, but are we supposed to believe he killed himself in the end?

Well, she kind of deserved it, she was threatening to kill him, or did that come after. He's seen violence with Caliban and finally realizes what he's created.  I don't think he killed himself, just gave himself over to his addiction when earlier - before confronting her - it seemed like he would fight it. 

 

Interesting that she said she's known all along she was raised from the dead.  I agree this was a depressing end but I think we're set up well for next season.

Edited July 6, 2015 by raven

[Advance35]

Wow, I don't know what to say.   That was subdued but so emotionally intense.

 

Vanessa's fantasy was interesting.  It's so easy to forget how her condition has derailed her life.    I think loneliness has been a consistent characteristic of Vanessa but apparently it's something she has gotten use too.   At least loneliness in terms of amorous companionship.   She has people in her life that she cares for and that care for her but it's hard when everyone has to go their separate ways for miscellaneous reasons.   It lined up nicely with Mr. Lyle reaching out to Victor.   Sometimes the people who most need to reach out are unable to do so.    It was also really good to be reminded about how much she misses Mina.

 

It's not at all surprising that even in Wolfman form Ethan couldn't hurt Vanessa.   Very true to the character.   There has always been something about her where he is concerned, even from early season 1.   And now there is certainly a mythology to it but still very poignant.   It's clear that Hecate intended for Ethan in Wolf form to kill both Evelyn AND Vanessa.

 

It was so strange to see Vanessa in pastels.

 

One of my favorite scenes in the whole finale was the carriage ride between Victor and Mr. Lyle.   It was just such a human scene.   He's such a rare thing in terms of our usual cast of characters as he is so in touch with his humanity.   The others are so closed off in so many different ways even if they do lower their guard with certain individuals.   It was really nice of him to offer Victor an ear if he ever needs one.

 

Victor's scene with Dorian and Brona/Lily was intense and scary.  I think she's the biggest monsters the show has shown us thus far.   Every scene she's in radiates with palatable malice.   Her taunts were especially cruel and it's clear cruelty is catnip to Dorian.   The two of them dancing over a bloody floor was great symbolism.

 

Caliban breaking out of the jail was a given and his leaving the blind girl alive was a cruelty in itself.   

 

So much more to process I just can't find the words.   But Hecate dear, your mother sang the song much better.   Find your own Mkay?

[pandora spocks]

How is the show going to continue with half of the cast going to all parts of the globe? Oh, Vanessa you and Ethan would have had such beautiful children!

Edited July 6, 2015 by pandora spocks

[TrininisaScorp]

Oof...that was bleak.  When the credits came up, I just sighed a bit. 

 

Dorian and Lily/Brona were terrifying in their pretty white clothes and dancing around in their blood.

 

Loved all the boats at the end showing our characters getting spread all over.  It's so unfortunate b/c their strength is truly in their togetherness.  

 

Vanessa and the dummy was terrifying!!  Loved that she pwned, instead of getting stepped on.  Her fantasy was heartbreaking and her scenes with Caliban and by herself were steeped in such sadness.  I hope we get to see more Vanessa/Caliban and Vanessa/Victor scenes in future b/c they were among my favorites this season.

 

Oh, Victor.  He was already messed up and addicted, now he's REALLY messed up.  I would like for him to take Sir Lyle up on his offer for an open ear.  I'm torn by Victor's convo with Lily:  She was killed, used and created at his whim, which isn't okay.  Yet to find out it was all manipulation and her sneering at him, was painful too.  Ouch.  

 

Dorian's arc makes his depravity and obvious appreciate for Victor's dressing down all the more horrid.  Think of that guy that was making Angelique feel loved.  That wasn't really real, though?  Right?

 

Ethan is heading to America...wonder where we are taking that.  Him sitting in that cage was terrible to see.

 

Sir Malcolm with Sembene's body was also very hard to take in.  I'm super annoyed he's gone.  We barely got to know him, yet appreciated his presence.  No one fills that role on this show.    

[rozen]

Dorian's arc makes his depravity and obvious appreciate for Victor's dressing down all the more horrid.  Think of that guy that was making Angelique feel loved.  That wasn't really real, though?  Right?

 

Nope. He was just seeking out a new sensation, as that is his drug of choice. I expect that if Angelique had not found the painting, he would have turned on her just to experience her revulsion and watch as the social hierarchy came to take their pound of flesh. 

 

Pretty sure Bronalilly was making explicit death threats right off the bat. That, and I'll give Victor the benefit of the doubt in realizing when his "children" have turned malevolent. Victor keeps seeking redemption by reanimating a pure being, but all his workings turn dark, which is just as demoralizing as realizing the love of your life has been mocking you the entire time. Hope she has some immortal spies, cause Victor's about to put a whole lot of time into figuring out how to kill her.

 

Wait, why didn't Kali's daughters shrivel up and lose their powers when Vanessa pwned puppet-her? Is it because the contract was only with Kali, and the rest of the coven gets to survive? Maybe that's why they were magically slow enough for Malcom and Mr. Lyle to shoot?

 

I love that Vanessa broke her vision sort of like how Malcom did. She's too broken to ever be in that painting. Ethan too. Oh great, kill the only minority character you have. Continue on with the mystical London, chock full of supernatural creatures, but not  a single non-white person (unless you need a redcoat to advance the story). Someone pls go make a "white feminism" meme based on this show, it'd be pretty hilarious. Sembene would have been the one to say that leaving Vanessa all by herself now was the dumbest idea on Earth, the witches truly have won.

 

Bye bye Putneys. Glad Mrs Putney got 5s to realize just how stupid she was before Caliban wrung her neck. So Caliban didn't go on because he's an idiot (mostly), but because he was desperately hoping he was wrong and that Asshat Baby Putney was his true friend.

[Happytobehere]

So the one non-white character on the show, the character who was the least developed yet so well acted that he rose above the nothing that was given to him to make a true impact on the show, hell we know more about Lyle and the house of horrors trio than Sembene, gets killed in yet another magical black man trope of saving the white hero. I think I'm done

[Darlyn]

Wow....what to say? I'm sorry...I can't accept that Sembene is gone. I believe he will be back, and if I'm in denial, I'll be in a better place once Season 3 begins and removes my doubt. But until then, I'm going to hope beyond hope because he's such an awesome, mysterious, wonderful man. I want to know more about him. I want to hear him speak. Malcolm needs him. They all do. We need some people of color.

So glad Evelyn got her throat snatched. Vanessa walked up in there and took her down, and Ethan came thru and dealt the death blow....quick and to the point. When are folks going to stop making deals with the devil? He's not good for that. Ethan is being shipped back to America? Can't wait to get the info on his family situation and why he left in the first place.

 

The Putneys had no idea what they were working with, and their cruelty was rewarded quite handsomely - a neck snapped, a head smashed, and a blind girl left alive to think about what life will be like with no sight, and no one to care for her. The struggle is real. I feel very sorry for John - His existence was doomed the very moment he was pieced together. The Putneys were cruel, evil people. John is a monster (Victor is too), but what else has he ever had a chance to be? I loved his last interaction with Vanessa - I cried. It was heartbreaking. Then, there's poor, drug-addicted Victor. *Sigh*

Lyle was spared...I love him! Dorian and Lily sure are strange, aren't they? I don't know what to think of them. 

 

It's over till next year, and I'm a little sad about it.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Darlyn

[Darlyn]

We got a true Frankenstein's monster ending for him, straight out of the book (more or less, I think he was actually sitting on an ice floe at the end of the book).  Maybe I'm used to him, but I don't think he's as horrifyingly ugly as everyone else seems to think.

 

I agree.

[Pogojoco]

"Never underestimate the power of a queen with lovely hair, my dear."

[SteveAC10]

 

"Never underestimate the power of a queen with lovely hair, my dear."

Ha!

 

What is so amazing about Beale's portrayal is that he brings surprising dignity and depth to a character that in lesser hands could become no more than an amusing, and even offensive caricature.  You can see the pain and fear behind the baroque and flamboyant exterior. It's also been wonderful to watch the character become more comfortable with who he is in this company of tortured misfits - to the point he's more concerned with people finding out he's Jewish.

[paramitch]

I really enjoyed this, but I also found it somewhat bleak and depressing, which seemed to be a theme among this Spring and Summer's finales. Sheesh. I need to watch videos of baby goats and kittens after this. Lots of baby goats and kittens! Leaping!

 

I think my favorite revelation was that Lily has ALWAYS been aware, and I love that. It adds so much incredibly gothic fucked-upness to her sleeping with Victor -- the man she knows killed her and then reanimated her corpse. I adore Lily because she is absolutely right to be filled with so much rage and resentment -- she was a girl betrayed by her mother, lover, then society itself, managed to retain a small amount of love and dignity enough to have at least a lovely relationship with Ethan before being murdered on her deathbed by (again) a man so that he could experiment on her. For him to then be puppy-eyed and crushing on Lily reborn must have seemed the ultimate in insulting foolishness, when you look at it that way.

 

Vanessa's true gift is accepting everyone no matter their faults and calling them friend, whether you're undead, a werewolf, an addict or the worst father/husband/colonialist ever.  Just don't be evil and try to kill her or her friends.

 

(snipped for space)

 

Had to give a cheer when Caliban broke out of the cell and did some bashing.  End of that subplot!  As usual, his scene with Vanessa was A+, so heartwarming that even with the REALLY bad day he's had, he still tried to buck her up.  We got a true Frankenstein's monster ending for him, straight out of the book (more or less, I think he was actually sitting on an ice floe at the end of the book).  Maybe I'm used to him, but I don't think he's as horrifyingly ugly as everyone else seems to think.

 

That's my favorite thing about Vanessa. It's very much a theme on this show -- this idea that our little group is always so forgiving and accepting of everyone's sins but their own. Which is probably as it should be.

 

I was so saddened that John Clare was allowing himself to be caged because he wasn't sure there was anything outside of that cage worth having. Then the stupid family had to come in and taunt him, and well, it was satisfying to see them reap what they had sown. I just felt bad for our monster, because while killing them was understandable, it's very interesting now to see how each death he causes does truly cause him pain and revulsion.

 

Also, I would totally date John Clare. I think he's weirdly beautiful -- I'm always confused when people in-show refer to his "hideousness," because, seriously, I'd hit that. Especially with that beautiful voice.

But seriously, poor guy -- Vanessa's scene with him was so moving and so beautiful. I was so happy she kissed him. I loved that he was brave enough to ask her to come with him, and honestly, I really wanted her to.

 

And it's tragic and ironic that poor John Clare has never been more a part of the human race than at the moment he (1) felt he didn't fit into it, and (2) decided to leave its company. It broke my heart.

 

One of my favorite scenes in the whole finale was the carriage ride between Victor and Mr. Lyle.   It was just such a human scene.   He's such a rare thing in terms of our usual cast of characters as he is so in touch with his humanity.   The others are so closed off in so many different ways even if they do lower their guard with certain individuals.   It was really nice of him to offer Victor an ear if he ever needs one.

 

Victor's scene with Dorian and Brona/Lily was intense and scary.  I think she's the biggest monsters the show has shown us thus far.   Every scene she's in radiates with palatable malice.   Her taunts were especially cruel and it's clear cruelty is catnip to Dorian.   The two of them dancing over a bloody floor was great symbolism.

 

Caliban breaking out of the jail was a given and his leaving the blind girl alive was a cruelty in itself.   

 

So much more to process I just can't find the words.   But Hecate dear, your mother sang the song much better.   Find your own Mkay?

 

What I thought was interesting about Kali was that she and her daughter were a sign of changing times. She is all RAWWRRR I MUST RULE ALL while Hecate (who was more interesting than I expected) was much more about the shades of grey. She showed that she would rather adapt and turn to diplomacy versus outright warfare. She never underestimated Ethan and the group while Kali did, and paid.

 

I agree that Helen McCrory was just wonderful this season. I love her and she made Kali so human. She wasn't just textbook Eevuhl. But one thing -- the song Hecate and Kali sang is very pretty, but it confuses me because it sounds melodically identical to the Irish folk song "The Star of the County Down" but the words are all different. Does anyone else think that?

 

Nope. He was just seeking out a new sensation, as that is his drug of choice. I expect that if Angelique had not found the painting, he would have turned on her just to experience her revulsion and watch as the social hierarchy came to take their pound of flesh. 

 

Pretty sure Bronalilly was making explicit death threats right off the bat. That, and I'll give Victor the benefit of the doubt in realizing when his "children" have turned malevolent. Victor keeps seeking redemption by reanimating a pure being, but all his workings turn dark, which is just as demoralizing as realizing the love of your life has been mocking you the entire time. Hope she has some immortal spies, cause Victor's about to put a whole lot of time into figuring out how to kill her.

 

I don't know. I think that Dorian did have real feelings for Angelique, but the trouble is, his feelings for himself are always going to run deeper. I do think he felt something for her, but he killed her anyway. And then (even more monstrous, in its own way) I think he blamed her -- Look what she made me do. She made me kill her. Everything was fine until she went where she shouldn't have (etc.).

 

And it's interesting -- I think Dorian is actually almost a mirror for others to lose themselves in. With Vanessa he's all demonic sexuality dressed up prim, respectable and Victorian, while with Ethan he's fascinating and disarmingly frank, with Angelique he's accepting and romantic, with Lily he's cold and playful and the most inhuman we've ever seen him -- just as she is. I think Dorian could have gone either way up until Angelique, but that when he killed Angelique, I think it's the moment when he palpably chose Team Evil (and that it will have consequences).

 

And that final scene of the two of them in their beautiful white Victorian clothes, slowly bleeding and dancing away in circles of their own blood, was absolutely stunning. (Also, kudos to Billie Piper, because girlfriend was fantastic this season. The best work I've ever, ever seen her do. She made Lily mesmerizing, fierce, terrible and relatable.)

 

So the one non-white character on the show, the character who was the least developed yet so well acted that he rose above the nothing that was given to him to make a true impact on the show, hell we know more about Lyle and the house of horrors trio than Sembene, gets killed in yet another magical black man trope of saving the white hero. I think I'm done

 

I get this, but within the universe of the show, I was able to simply enjoy and mourn what I saw without rage (and believe me, I'm normally the person screaming/laughing at "The Walking Dead" for its endless revolving door as characters of color enter and are then dispatched just in time for the next one, etc.). I'm intensely unhappy that Sembene was killed, but that scene between Ethan and Sembene was incredibly moving and one of the best in the show's history for me (certainly the best acting I've ever seen Hartnett do, ever, and Sapani was just superb).

 

I guess I just feel like Sembene was intriguing enough and beautifully performed enough that to me he transcended the "minority character dies" trope. Instead it was a believably tragic end to the palpable friendship that has grown between the two men -- I was even weirdly glad that the show didn't pull punches and have the Wolfman spare him. Because that's what's so tragic about the Wolfman -- he's all beast and Ethan is nowhere to be found; he doesn't know what he does and can't stop it. I didn't want Ethan to spare him for some mawkish scene -- but I so wanted Ethan to spare Sembene because of the regard the two have for each other, and it broke my heart that Sembene died.

 

Although I admit that when we saw Malcolm making the crossing to Africa, sitting there quietly next to Sembene's coffin, I was weirdly comforted, waiting for Sembene to wake up or wolf out or something. So I'm still stupidly hopeful for next season somehow.

 

But what a sad ending for our sweet Victorian misfit monster family -- everyone scattered to the winds, Ethan in a cage of his own making, John Clare serenading icebergs, Victor shooting up in a filthy garret, poor adorable Mr. Lyle admitting his own loneliness and need for friendship to Victor (which seemed to go unheard, because Victor is so immersed in himself I think he's terrible at reading others)... 

 

I can't wait for season 3 -- which I'm assuming will probably have something to do with the ever-widening circles of blood Lily and Dorian bring to the world... and I really hope that this somehow brings back John Clare as a firm member of our reassembled Scooby Gang, along with (one can hope) a wolfy Sembene? (DAMMIT!)

 

This was a superb season (even better than Season 1), and a rich finale. But I would have been much happier if this season had ended with Ethan and Mr. Lyle flirting sweetly over drinks in Malcolm's study as Vanessa danced with Victor and everyone had just one more piece of Sembene's divine buttercream cake. Sniffle.

[Maum]

Well that was bright and cheerful....

 

Vanessa's scene with Caliban was heartbreaking.

 

Everyone was just so sad.

 

And then we have Dorian. Sigh. Lily is so malevolent and strong that she made him look like a silly little boy (not helped by the outfit and the bad hair). When Lily was taunting Victor I was horrified. When Dorian did I cringed. If he is meant to be the Devil's brother on earth (as suggested by the painting and Vanessa's possession last series) he better step up a bit. Right now he is as annoying as the smug f*cking inspector.

Nice touch as Caliban was walking away from the Putneys' was hearing Lavinia's horrified screams when she no doubt stepped on her mother's head.

 

So is Lily going to go after Caliban or will she lose interest now that she has Dorian? I can see her furious that he left without her knowledge. She clearly had plans for him.
 

I think Caliban will be Vanessa's saviour.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Maum

[Bort]

Nooooooo, they killed Ethan's hair!

[patchwork]

Until season 3 rolls around and dashes my hope I'm choosing to believe Sembene isn't dead dead. That Malcolm knows of a way which might being him back but it's very risky and requires Sembene's home-hearth which is why the man is leaving Vanessa alone after what she's been through.  

 

A reflection describes Dorian wonderfully it works well with how the painting seems to work and his desire for new experiences. Deliberately or not he makes himself part of the experience by becoming what suits it best. The scene with Victor was chilling (Penny Dreadful is giving me a whole new respect for Billy Piper as an actress) disturbing they might be but I'm all for Lilly/Dorian if for no other reason than he's finally be part of the main story. 

 

It's curious that Lily stayed in the ballroom while Dorian went to heal himself it makes me wonder if Angelique hadn't seen the painting but found out the truth in some other way she'd still be alive. 

 

Despite the characters being scattered at the end I think next season is going to focus on the Frankensteins.   

[dargosmydaddy]

 

Well, she kind of deserved it, she was threatening to kill him, or did that come after.

I thought that came after. Either way, if I recall correctly he shot her right after she made fun of how bad he was at sex, which made him look like a pissy (and violent) little kid, rather than someone who was trying to save himself or right the wrongs of what he had created.

 

 

Nooooooo, they killed Ethan's hair!

I found the haircut kind of hot, but the shot of Ethan in the cage just killed me.

[Maum]

Yes he shot her after she called him a 'grubby little boy' or something to that effect.

I suppose in his defence the only (dubious) redeeming factor is that he knew at that point she was a 'monster' as opposed to the sweet little corpse bride he believed her to be.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Maum

[Primetimer]

Penny Dreadful wraps it up for Season 2. Who lived? Who died? Who's making trouble for next season?

Read the story

[teddysmom]

Until season 3 rolls around and dashes my hope I'm choosing to believe Sembene isn't dead dead. That Malcolm knows of a way which might being him back but it's very risky and requires Sembene's home-hearth which is why the man is leaving Vanessa alone after what she's been through.

 

I was thinking the same thing.  He's not "dead-dead".   

 

I can't imagine Vanessa living in that huge house all by herself.  Even for a few months. Lyle should move in with her.  He'd be a great room mate. "My dear Miss Ives we HAVE to get you out of black, at least once a fortnight".

 

 Or maybe she'll have to travel to the U.S. to save Ethan.  

[anamika]

Did anyone else find the whole Victor/Lily/Dorian scene funny? It was all so surreal with Victor just showing up and randomly shooting people. At least with Lily he probably knows that it's not going to do much damage, but him shooting Dorian was just What the Hell!! Victor is attempting murder now? That came out of nowhere and made no sense.

 

I am glad he shot Lily though and now knows about her deceit. Her super villain act got old fast. I hope the Creature/Caliban comes back.

 

So Ethan turned himself in. Should have done that a while ago and saved the lives of all those dead women and children that his wolf slaughtered. And his idiocy gets poor Sembene killed. Ah, Sembene what a wasted character with so much potential.

 

Just reading through PD creator John Logan's interviews shows that he likes to write for Vanessa and John Clare. So we get all those pointless scenes of Vanessa and the Creature having a chat while Sembene cannot get one episode about him. While the Vanessa/John Clare scenes were artistically good and enjoyable it did nothing to move either the story plot or their character arcs forward. Sembene's death is apparently meant to fracture the team, but what about Sembene himself. All he got to do was stand in the background and react to other character's dialogue. Danny Sapani is also a good actor, managing to inject nuance and emotion into what little he was given to do.

 

Not sure how everyone is going to come together next season to take on the apparently invincible Lily/Dorian pair.

Edited July 6, 2015 by anamika

[ChipBach]

Great episode.  I was a bit disappointed Kali didn't suffer more as an aged woman.  I would have preferred her to live out advanced years as a grotesque AND old woman.  Given her terror of getting old, her death was an easy way out for her...

 

I still believe Sembene will develop into another Universal creature, maybe a zombie?  We still need a mummy, a creature from the black lagoon, etc...

[attica]

I thought the arguing with the puppet didn't quite work. It worked better than it had right to, but still didn't get me all the way in. I laughed out loud at one point; I don't know how EG got through the scene without busting a gut.

 

In the fantasy sequence, I thought it so sweet that Ethan called her 'Van' and that the little girl was called 'Clare' (which is how the captioning spelled it, so: clearly on purpose.)

She did burn the crucifix though, so there's a victory for evil right there, if she permanently turns away from her faith.

 

Another way to view that: if she gives up her superstitions, evil can have no foothold.

[polyhymnia]

I also did not like that Kali got quickly dispatched by Wolfman Ethan as opposed to having the full weight of aging fall on her.  I think that would have killed her as well (she's obviously been doing this for at least as long as her sister), but it seemed a bit of a plot convenience to get Vanessa and Ethan in the same room.  I mean, Vanessa had it handled.  I guess Hecate was hoping Ethan would kill both of them.

 

Lily and Dorian were a little over-the-top but it was macabre fun, so I'm not really complaining.

 

Vanessa and John Clare actually got me teary.  I wasn't expecting that and half expected that he would turn on her, so am glad that they had that terribly sad moment.  Heartbreaking.

[Dirtybubble]

I still believe Sembene will develop into another Universal creature, maybe a zombie?  We still need a mummy, a creature from the black lagoon, etc...

 

 

LOL!  To quote Mr. Lyle "Surely you jest..."  Enh I like Sembene as well but sometimes we need to let loved characters go.  Bringing them back always seems to cheapen the character & they never have that same spark.

 

Did anyone else find the whole Victor/Lily/Dorian scene funny? It was all so surreal with Victor just showing up and randomly shooting people. At least with Lily he probably knows that it's not going to do much damage, but him shooting Dorian was just What the Hell!! Victor is attempting murder now? That came out of nowhere and made no sense.

Well I think Victor didn't know that Dorian was immortal and with Lily and his intent on killing in general, after what he experienced in Madame Kali's house I can see why he would want to just kill all his creations.  Yeah it was a little bit overly dramatic but on this show all of that is forgivable.

[islandgal140]

"Never underestimate the power of a queen with lovely hair, my dear."

 

I only have one thing to say right now about this episode

 

Mr. Lyle .... MAH QUEEN!!!!!!

[teddysmom]

Did anyone else find the whole Victor/Lily/Dorian scene funny? It was all so surreal with Victor just showing up and randomly shooting people. At least with Lily he probably knows that it's not going to do much damage, but him shooting Dorian was just What the Hell!! Victor is attempting murder now? That came out of nowhere and made no sense.

 

Yes!  When Dorian said "you'll have to do better than that", I burst out laughing.  I bet they had a hoot filming that scene too.  How many more times are they going to pour blood all over that room? 

 

I was wondering about the shooting of the witches working so easily, as in "we couldn't have just done this all along and saved a lot of time and trouble?!?!" But then I think it only worked because the spell was broken. 

 

I still don't know if I'm buying the Vanessa doll/Satan thing.  Why did they need Vanessa hair to make a doll that looks like Vanessa but that Satan talks thru?  Is Satan a ventriloquist who needs a dummy to talk through?  This means one thing. Jeff Dunham IS the Devil. 

[TiffanyNichelle]

I don't know. I think that Dorian did have real feelings for Angelique, but the trouble is, his feelings for himself are always going to run deeper. I do think he felt something for her, but he killed her anyway. And then (even more monstrous, in its own way) I think he blamed her -- Look what she made me do. She made me kill her. Everything was fine until she went where she shouldn't have (etc.).

 

And it's interesting -- I think Dorian is actually almost a mirror for others to lose themselves in. With Vanessa he's all demonic sexuality dressed up prim, respectable and Victorian, while with Ethan he's fascinating and disarmingly frank, with Angelique he's accepting and romantic, with Lily he's cold and playful and the most inhuman we've ever seen him -- just as she is. I think Dorian could have gone either way up until Angelique, but that when he killed Angelique, I think it's the moment when he palpably chose Team Evil (and that it will have consequences).

 

I think that's an excellent point. When it comes to Dorian whatever he's feeling at the time he really means it until he gets bored by it or finds something much more interesting to distract him. Which is why he was mooning over Vanessa's picture for so long until shiny new Angelique showed up. If it hadn't been here it would have been someone else.

 

It will be interesting to see how long this fascination with Bronily lasts.

[ChipBach]

Yes!  When Dorian said "you'll have to do better than that", I burst out laughing.  I bet they had a hoot filming that scene too.  How many more times are they going to pour blood all over that room? 

 

I still don't know if I'm buying the Vanessa doll/Satan thing.  Why did they need Vanessa hair to make a doll that looks like Vanessa but that Satan talks thru?  Is Satan a ventriloquist who needs a dummy to talk through?  This means one thing. Jeff Dunham IS the Devil. 

Didn't Dorian already suggest Lilly kil Victor before he was shot?  I thought Vic thought he could easily dispatch his perceived romantic competition.  It was a pretty rough night already, what's one more body?  It was sad watching him mocked by Lilly tho, reminded me of the really mean girls...  She is going to be a great villain.  I assume it is going to be awhile until she and Ethan go face to face...

 

I think the voice they used for the doll ruined it a bit for me.  If they could have used a more evil voice once Vanessa blew it up and changed the face to a more freaky evil doll face, it may have had more of an impact with me...

Edited July 6, 2015 by ChipBach

[teddysmom]

I assume it is going to be awhile until she and Ethan go face to face...

 

That's a show down I cannot wait to see.  Use your power for good, Ethan!!!!  

 

And what is with werewolf boyfriends taking off and breaking hearts?!  

[cali1981]

Amazing season finale with enough intriguing hooks to keep us coming back.  Eva Green killed the scene in which she battles and belittles ole Satan Claus. Her guttural "Know your master" was stunning.  Billie Piper continues to hit her scenes out the park now that "Lily/Brona" is a full on villain in cahoots with Dorian.  You had to know that Caliban could break out of his cell at will. Still, it was satisfying when his captors got theirs.  It was, perhaps, deliberately cruel when he let the blind daughter live to be so handicapped and alone in the world.  In his last scene on the ship in the Arctic or Antarctic he seemed to be the only one on board.  It reminded me of some of the Dracula movies where his ship arrives in London with only one dead man tied to the wheel.  I almost laughed at Chandler/Talbot being in that not very sturdy looking cage on the ship. Methinks that the Inspector is in for a most unpleasant surprise at the next full moon.
 

Edited July 6, 2015 by cali1981

[TobinAlbers]

 

Eva Green killed the scene in which she battles and belittles ole Satan Claus. Her guttural "Know your master" was stunning.

 

When she began growling in her throat and held the puppet's gaze that was some superb build-up to her final smackdown.

 

When Brona and Dorian were so casually discussing killing him now or later I seriously thought Victor might bite it. When he let out that sigh of shocked relief when they gave him his reprieve, so did I.  Up until now the main big bads have been associated with Vanessa in some way so I wonder how Dorian and Brona's evil plans will cross Vanessa's path.*

 

I normally do fall to shipping and I do like Vanessa/Ethan but I also was trying to resist falling for the trap, but between the 'What if' vision, Vanessa's begging him to walk with her and leave this place, and finally Vanessa's devastation at Ethan's leaving has me feeling for them SO hard. These two are a very mature, adult and very Victorian romantic relationship. They're playing all the right beats in their tortured love story and I'm interested to see where they go next season.

 

I'll give John Logan this, he tied up this chapter of the story and the season in a way that could serve as a series finale had they not gotten renewed but also set up things for a great season 3.

 

*Edited to complete a thought after distraction.

Edited July 6, 2015 by TobinAlbers

[withanaich]

R.I.P. Sembene. I'm disappointed, and still holding out a sliver of hope that he's not dead-dead, but I know he probably is. Leaving aside issues of representation, it just seems like such a waste from a writing standpoint. He was a great character, with a potentially fascinating backstory we only got the tiniest tantalizing glimpse of, and now he's just gone. Was the actor getting too busy? Otherwise, it makes no real sense. I'm still hoping we might get to see flashbacks of Sembene and Malcolm in Africa. 

 

I found the scene with the talking puppet funny. Why couldn't Satan use Kali or one of the other witches as a conduit? That would have had a lot more impact than a talking doll, and taken less time than making a doll that looks exactly like Vanessa, procuring a baby heart, and stealing a strand of Vanessa's hair. Work smarter, not harder, Satan. It's a shame because when we first saw the room with the fetishes, it was incredibly creepy. But seeing Vanessa chat it up with that doll just made me laugh. It really took me out of the scene.

 

Did anyone else notice that the little boy playing Vanessa and Ethan's son was kind of growling his lines through his teeth like Eva Green does? I loved that. And I also loved that Mina was alive in Vanessa's fantasy.

 

 

I'm torn by Victor's convo with Lily:  She was killed, used and created at his whim, which isn't okay.  Yet to find out it was all manipulation and her sneering at him, was painful too.  Ouch.

Agreed. What Victor did was undoubtedly wrong, but watching Lily insult him, I found myself sympathizing with the resurrectionist for the perhaps the first time. But here's what I don't understand: Dorian is immortal, but he's obviously not invulnerable. He can grow back body parts, yes, but only if he looks at the painting. So how did getting shot not hurt? He was bleeding, but he was laughing it off. He looked like he felt it when Lily tore his ear off, and when Vanessa scratched up his back I seem to remember him making a face like it hurt. So if he can feel that, I imagine getting shot would at least sting. I'm willing to accept that Lily doesn't feel pain, but the way they've set up Dorian's mythology, him being so glib about being shot doesn't make sense. You'd think he'd a least be a little worried about bleeding out. 

[cali1981]

When Brona and Dorian were so casually discussing killing him now or later I seriously thought Victor might bite it. When he let out that sigh of shocked relief when they gave him his reprieve, so did I.  Up until now the main big bads have been associated with Vanessa in some way so I wonder how Doria

 

 

I really like the way Billie Piper can shift from a heavy, menacing voice to one that is calm and casual when she is discussing raining death and havoc on everyone.  She did the same thing in her showstopping scene with Caliban when she sat down and almost matter of factly began talking about their possible actions.  She has really transformed Lily/Brona into something very special.

[Dirtybubble]

 

Agreed. What Victor did was undoubtedly wrong, but watching Lily insult him, I found myself sympathizing with the resurrectionist for the perhaps the first time. But here's what I don't understand: Dorian is immortal, but he's obviously not invulnerable. He can grow back body parts, yes, but only if he looks at the painting. So how did getting shot not hurt? He was bleeding, but he was laughing it off. He looked like he felt it when Lily tore his ear off, and when Vanessa scratched up his back I seem to remember him making a face like it hurt. So if he can feel that, I imagine getting shot would at least sting.

 

I was wondering this as well.  Maybe he doesn't have to look at the painting right away....IDK but my guess this was a bit of writing fudgery simply to get the scene.  It would have really killed the moment if as soon as Dorian was shot he goes running into his little hide-y hole to heal PLUS Victor would have seen him do it & could just simply follow him in there. 

 

I'm torn by Victor's convo with Lily:  She was killed, used and created at his whim, which isn't okay.  Yet to find out it was all manipulation and her sneering at him, was painful too.  Ouch.

What got me was the way she mocked his "first time", good gravy gurl!  Victor really got the sympathetic character this season despite the fact that he kinda brought this all on himself. 

 

 

[Bec]

As much as I do feel for Victor, it doesn't seem right that Lily is just flat-out a villain now when she has some pretty legitimate beefs with the world and she hadn't even killed as many characters we cared about as Mr. Clare had, but we're still supposed to feel bad for Mr. Clare. I hope Lily gets to have layers and nuances, too. We can look past all the monstrous things that the main characters have done; Lily's crimes kind of pale in comparison.

 

Yeah, yeah, I know she talked a big game about taking over the world and ruling over everyone, but what has she really done so far? Kill some johns? Pffft... whatever, let her. That's less of a crime than Ethan as wolfman killing Sembene.

 

Speaking of, I heard the actor who plays Sembene got a bigger role on another show, that would explain why he seemed to have been written out so hastily (I do think a backstory episode with Sembene would fit well next season if Sir Malcolm is going to be in Africa, but I wonder if the actor has time to film that). They better not just put in a replacement black guy like The Walking Dead would do, though.

[attica]

Work smarter, not harder, Satan.

 

Srsly. Words to live by, for humans and demons alike.

[Waldo13]

First of all, there are so many great posts that I wish I could quote them all; but that's a tall order in the mobile version.

Penny Dreadful is so well written and so well acted that I hope there a many many Emmy nominations and wins for them especially Eva. I'm amazed and in awe of the cast and how they remember those complicated lines bringing so much emotion and reality to their character.

IMO, the season 2 finale is about redemption and atonement for their transgressions. Those who wanted it such as Sembene, Ethan, the creature, and Victor and those who chose not to as Lily and Dorian.

Sembene was a slave trader and it was not brought up that he was forced to do it or done it on his own behalf; but this was something he truly regretted. Knowing it was a full moon, he chose to help Ethan protect Vianessa thus putting his life in great danger. When Ethan turned, IMO, Sembene has more of a look of piece on his face than fear.

Victor, we are not sure if he is dead, but knowing that his "creations" were delusional and homicidal, his chose what he thought to be honorable.

Ethan, the Wolf of God, chose his redemption by walking away from Vanessa and turning himself in to face the consequences. Athough death by hanging probably would not work. Vanessa forgave him but Ethan felt he was not worthy of her.

John Clare, the Creature, chose exile over being a monster in the public eye. I believe this self realization started after Lily threw him around the room and he was in fear of her. He saw himself through her eyes and realized again, with killing the Putneys, that he was no more than a freak. He really wanted to be a sensitive being which was evident by his talkes with Vanessa and his books of poetry. I loved when Vaness told him that he was the most human man she's ever known giving him piece after turning him down for going away with him.

Lily has just found herself and believes she is entitled to whatever wrath she can bring because she was unjustly abused. I wonder if she remembers Victor killing her on her death bed.

Dorian absolutely doesn't give a crap about anything that doesn't give him pleasure.

Vanessa was incredible not giving into temptation but I'm not sure if she renounced God by burning the Crusifix. By turning off the light, Vanessa resolves herself to being in the dark and accept the fact that so we walk alone. A Fantastic Closing Line!

[Bort]

Another way to view that: if she gives up her superstitions, evil can have no foothold.

That's an excellent point. Much like the monster under your bed: if you don't believe in it, it has no power over you.

[cali1981]

 

I found the scene with the talking puppet funny. Why couldn't Satan use Kali or one of the other witches as a conduit? That would have had a lot more impact than a talking doll, and taken less time than making a doll that looks exactly like Vanessa, procuring a baby heart, and stealing a strand of Vanessa's hair. Work smarter, not harder, Satan. It's a shame because when we first saw the room with the fetishes, it was incredibly creepy. But seeing Vanessa chat it up with that doll just made me laugh. It really took me out of the scene.

 

 

Maybe Satan felt that having Vanessa's look alike avatar staring at her and verbally coaxing her to the nether regions would be both terrifying yet comforting for her.  It seemed to me that it backfired completely because Vanessa seemed to use the doll to grow stronger and bolder as she verbally duked it out with Big Red.  The only thing he accomplished was to "release the Kraken" as the myths would put it.  All that was left was her fan club of scorpions as she crushed her symbolic self physically and psychologically.

 

Quick addendum:  I just watched that scene again and Vanessa growls "Beloved, know your master" as a tear runs down her cheek and she crushes the doll's head. You can hear hear a male voice screaming and I assume that's Satan.  Vanessa is clearly the evil female spirit/mate found by Lyle as he was deciphering the puzzle.  These demons have very complicated relationships don't they.

Edited July 7, 2015 by cali1981

[raven]

 

ither way, if I recall correctly he shot her right after she made fun of how bad he was at sex, which made him look like a pissy (and violent) little kid, rather than someone who was trying to save himself or right the wrongs of what he had created.

You're right, on rewatch he shoots her right after she mocks him, so for no other reason than that he was pissed off.  He had no reason to think she was a monster, that came after the shooting and laughing. 

 

 

Another way to view that: if she gives up her superstitions, evil can have no foothold.

Am I paranoid if everyone's really out to get me :)  Seriously, the show has shown us that evil is a real, tangible thing.  God, not so much.  We haven't heard much from the big guy (or girl) but we've got demons and all kinds of nasties running amok.  I like that we've touched on different faiths with Mr. Lyle being Jewish.  There's a lot more to explore if they go that route, or is it really Vanessa's own strength in herself that enables her to beat back her demons?  Ethan has no control over his wolfishness and the Nightcomers presumbably willingly gave themselves over.  I wonder if one of them could have broken away if they wanted to.

 

WRT to good vs evil, to Bec's point about Lily being shown pretty much all-in evil right now, I hope also we are shown more from her.  Brona was apparently a sweet girl who was capable of love and being loved, why is Lily showing no traces of Brona?  Or is it more she is drunk with power and breaking free of Brona's (metaphorical) chains and real past life?  Will she have any regrets? 

 

I always thought Caliban was the way he is because he's been cobbled together (I think, like the original monster), but Lily was raised straight from Brona so theoretically should have been much like Brona was.  Billie Piper has done a great job with the transformation and I hope she's challenged more next season; if Lily is shown having doubts, we as viewers can doubt the sincerity of THAT since we've seen her playing pretty much everyone since day 1.  Is she (Lily the character, not BP the actress) capable of being more?

 

So the show has been straight forward about evil in different incarnations but a physical representation of good has been noticeably absent (no angels, for example) except for whatever the individuals carry within themselves.  I like that and would like to see some examination of how their different faiths play into that in the future, if those faiths matter at all. 

Edited July 6, 2015 by raven

[kieyra]

Can't match everyone's observations, but I wanted to say that this has been a knockout second season. Everyone involved crushed it. I was only a "background" viewer of season one; a lot of aspects of it were a bit too much for me and my attention wandered.

But this season they took essentially the same ingredients, switched up the proportions, and turned it into glued-to-screen viewing for me. Kudos, and I've been spreading the word.

Edited July 6, 2015 by kieyra

[Gudzilla]

To me Eva Green's growl was the most unnerving thing this show has done.

 

I won't believe Sembene is dead until the actor cuts his hair......... oops wrong show.

[Glade]

This is such a beautiful, epic show, I find it breathtaking, and I can relate to and feel for the struggles of most of the characters here (i.e. not Dorian and Bronalily, who are stupid and cruel enough to be happy with who they are and the world they live in--their dancing was so creepy, as if they were marionettes, or caricatures taken from playing cards.)  This ending was so sad--Sembene died, and Ethan, Victor, and Caliban are trying to die, in their own ways. 

 

I feel so much for Victor--it's true that he made Lily out of a moment of compassion for Caliban.  And I think going to Dorian's to take her home was out of a similar motivation--since if she still was a naive, innocent amnesiac (and no, she didn't have all her memories from day one), I wouldn't want her around Dorian either... she herself was once a "trembling virgin" so she should really STFU and stop using 'boy' as if it was her own personal four letter word. Way to 'empower' yourself with immature, sexist taunts. 

 

That Dorian could have shown her the door and instead gotten Victor to revive Angelique as his immortal mate, but didn't...shows how sick he is. It looks like she and Dorian will be probably be the final villains, at the end of the series--and we should expect all of these characters to come and face the truths about each other then...not right away.   

 

It was so touching, that Vanessa went to Caliban when she needed a friend, and he listened with compassion--he made himself available emotionally even though he was so utterly destroyed himself in that moment.   He has only hatred for Victor, but it's clear that Vanessa is right, beyond that rage he has a very human side.  Hecate may have a future as a folk singer. 

 

I can't wait for next season, the voyage outward...

Edited July 7, 2015 by Glade

[helent]

Nothing of substance to add to everyone's great comments, so I'll just respond to this:

 

What Is Vanessa Smoking All The Time??

 

At one point she offers Ethan a smoke, he says he doesn't smoke tobacco, and she says "Neither do I". So  - oregano leaves, right? Clove cigarettes?

[bluestocking]

paramitch

On, the tune Mme Kali and Hecate sing, I'm pretty sure that it's the hymn tune Kingsfold, which has had several different words set to it.  I recognized it as the setting for "I feel the winds of God today," which is, perhaps appropriately for the finale, about going to sea.

 

Here's some info on the tune from hymnary.org -

 

Thought by some scholars to date back to the Middle Ages, KINGSFOLD is a folk tune set to a variety of texts in England and Ireland. The tune was published in English Country Songs (1893), an anthology compiled by Lucy E. Broadwood and J. A. Fuller Maitland. After having heard the tune in Kingsfold, Sussex, England (thus its name), Ralph Vaughan Williams (PHH 316) introduced it as a hymn tune in The English Hymnal (1906) as a setting for Horatius Bonar's "I Heard the Voice of Jesus Say" (488).

[LittleIggy]

Just decapitate Bronilly. If she and Dorian limp hair, I hate neckwear Gray are next years villains, I may not watch. Why was Ethan extradited? The dummy had me laughing. Not menacing at all. I did enjoy Caliban killing those awful people. Had to replay that. Mr. Lyle is still my fave. He needs his own show.

[Dobian]

A good but sad finale.  The Scoobies are all broken up and scattered to the four winds.  Vanessa was terrific as usual in this one, and her scene with Caliban was heartbreaking.  Those two are my favorite characters on this show.  I knew it wouldn't end well for Caliban's captors, but I liked how he left the blind girl to find her dead parents.  Farewell, Sembene.  Dorian and Bronily are evil and creepy, but what exactly do they hope to achieve?  I don't see a master race with a population of three (if you include Caliban, though I don't know that he would be on board if he ever returns from the North Pole).  I hope they don't spend all of next season bringing everyone back together again.

[Ravenya003]

I found the scene with the talking puppet funny. Why couldn't Satan use Kali or one of the other witches as a conduit?

 

 

Heck, why did he need a conduit at all? Last season he was appearing to Vanessa as Malcolm and Ethan and screwing her on the bed without any need for this voodoo stuff at all. 

 

But what was more interesting to me is the voice and mannerisms Vanessa took on when she confronted Puppet!Satan. It was exactly like when the demon was channelling through her in season one, leading me to wonder if Ethan really exorcised it completely. It would be a cool idea if Vanessa was actually using the demon's powers to supplement her own, or if in fact her personal demon is now possessed by her instead of the other way around.

 

Of course, it could just be Eva Green's acting decision in order to convey her state of mind at that point (kind of like how Alyson Hannigan's Willow used the phrase "bored now" as a vampire and a dark witch, even though there was no other connection between those two versions of the character). 

 

Regarding Frankenstein and Caliban - I feel that I can sympathise with them without feeling even remotely sorry for them, if that makes sense. Victor in particular isn't going through anything that he didn't bring upon himself with his own hubris and refusal to take responsibility for his creations. Kid made his own bed. 

 

It'll be interesting to see what Brona/Lily has planned for season three - though I expect it'll all come tumbling down the moment she lays eyes on Ethan, the one man who was truly kind to her. Calling it now: she'll wreck havoc only for Ethan to spark her "Brona" persona which allows him to take her undead life with her blessing. Can't say I'm particularly looking forward to that.  

[Slovenly Muse]

What I love about this show is that it has characters like Victor, who are technically on the side of good, but are not "good guys." Victor is on the right side, but he is NOT the kind of flawed, morally grey character who really has the heart of a hero deep down. He's the kind of guy who brings corpses back from the dead for his own curiosity, and even takes sexual advantage of them. He's the kind of guy who would shoot his own creation for mocking his lack of sexual prowess, most likely as a panic/rage reaction to realizing that she is not (and never was) obediently under his control. Most dramas would be tempted to balance that out, to justify his being seen as a "good guy" with some real heroism, like him finding the inner strength to resist Kali's illusions and rescue himself. But he and Sir Malcolm didn't get the heroic "we have overcome the witches!" moment, not like Ferdinand Lyle did. They needed Vanessa to save them from getting talked into killing themselves, because they are not heroes and the show does not pretend they are. I LOVE that this show doesn't do that "dark anti-hero" thing where they seem to say, "Hey, this Tony Soprano guy has done some really horrible, unforgivable stuff... What a scoundrel! Don't we just love him?" The characters here really do suffer the consequences of what they have done, and never earn a hero status despite their faults SIMPLY for being on the side of good. I find that so refreshing!

 

John Clare's scene with the Putney's was really wonderful. I love that he busted himself out and killed them so quickly he actually seemed to surprise himself. Like he hadn't decided to do it, just realized after the fact what he had done. When Lavinia showed up, I was braced for her grisly death, and I actually gasped out loud when Clare just silently slipped out and left her there to identify (probably by touch) her parents' bodies. That really was the absolute cruellest thing he could have done, and on top of that, it was the RIGHT thing to do. Unlike Victor, who just has this core of moral weakness that makes it impossible for him ever to truly become a sympathetic character, Clare actually has the potential to overcome his past, learn from his mistakes, and maybe even really become a good person. 

 

I am also upset about Sembene's death, but I'm actually not as upset about his death as I am disappointed in his development. I don't think he was killed off because he was a minority. I think he was killed off because he was the least developed and most expendable character to the plot whose death would have some impact, and lend some impact to Wolfman!Ethan NOT killing Vanessa. I suspect he WAS the most expendable and the least developed character because he was a minority, and that is what disappoints me. Do better, John Logan.

 

That said, I do love that Sir Malcolm is affording Sembene the respect (bringing his body home) that he did not afford his own son.

 

I am also not sure how the "Wolf of God" threatened the witches' plans, unless it was Ethan the man (and the grounding force of love that Vanessa had for him) that kept her from giving in to temptation. Otherwise, I think that idea, that he represents a threat to Evil's hold on Vanessa, may be explored next season. The way he stopped himself from harming her, acting as her protector even in his Wolfman form, felt like a starting point for something, rather than a conclusion.

 

I am excited to see where this all goes next season!

Edited July 7, 2015 by Slovenly Muse