S02.E08: Memento Mori

[Tara Ariano]

The Creature unleashes his rage; Sir Malcolm goes to confront Evelyn.

[Fredward]

Spoilers... kinda? It's from the trailer but still.

 

 

Appears folks were right about Angelique finding Dorian's painting. Fuck, man. Can't imagine it going well for her.

 

[I-Kare]

Good god I loved this episode! I think I have to rewatch to process but yeah, loved it!

[raven]

Some slightly incoherent thoughts:

 

Run Mr. Lyle!  The Madame Kali kiss - ew.

Sembene, you rock!

Aargh - don't kill Sir Malcolm!

Dorian, I can't forgive you for killing Angelique!

But Mr. Lyle said "us four and maybe one more" Dorian I guess?

Victor and Malcolm bonding - yes!

Damn straight, the wolf of God.

Sembene covers up a sleeping Victor - aw :)

 

Dorian's picture was OK, guess it's hard to live up to the buildup.

 

Still, Lily cuddling with that corpse is the creepiest thing I've seen on this show.  Billie Piper's diatribe was righteous and insane; great job.  What will Caliban do?  I bet their story will hold over for next season, which it should, it needs more attention than just the two episodes left can give it.

 

Zombie family! 

 

Oh, I had t LOL at Madame Kali's "baaaa".  Love how this show throws in those bits.  Hee.

Edited June 22, 2015 by raven

[Primetimer]

Someone finally solves -- and narrates -- the rest of the Verbis Diablo. But is it already too late? And could it maybe have been tightened up?

Read the story

[TrininisaScorp]

I have a few reactions, but my first is a question:  Is Dorian the incarnation (so to speak) of Lucifer's brother they were talking about tonight?!  Is that why he's a big character on the show with a seemingly separate storyline?

 

Poor Angelique!  She spent the last few days of her life feeling betrayed and let down.  To accept Dorian only to die by him is truly terrible.

 

Damn, Brona/Lilly!  Daaaammmnnn.  That was crazy, scary and intense, yet I was with her for the beginning (not being trod upon by men who think they own her, etc, etc).  I think it is one of the most compelling scenes I've seen in a while.  Kudos to Piper!  What shall Caliban do?

 

Oh, Victor.  You broken, sad thing.  He's in love, addicted and in total peril.  When Lily/Brona said "Creator", I just couldn't handle it.  Of all of them, his micro-world is just as f'ed up as his macro-world (demons, the devil, etc).  Well, maybe that's true for Ethan too.

 

I'm always terrified for Mr. Lyle.  His time at Madame Kali's was just scary.  Still, her downfall is clear and Hecate is looking to exploit it.

 

Sir Malcolm has been on my shit list, but Dalton really brought him back to me.  Again, I love the trope isn't save the damsel Vanessa, but save the big manly man.  I know it's a trap, but I love that Vanessa is the badass. 

 

The only storyline let down, or slow piece, was when Rusk came by to talk to Malcolm.  It was fine, but I really wanted us to move on to other things.

[BuddhaBelly]

Well, Angelique was disposed of real quick. I'm not even surprised. It was oddly anti climatic.

 

I kinda have to laugh that they called out the notion that women were used as harbingers as evil while Mr. Lyle was recounting the story. Then comes Lily. That reveal was excellent! The Irish accent that bled in as ranted, the ferocity on her face. I've never been impressed with Billie Piper before but I was impressed tonight. Now I want to know how long she's known the truth about everything. Since she first mentioned to Peter her disdain for corsets? How long has she been playing this game? Since the very beginning?

 

Sembene knows who the Hound of God is. I thought he was going to spill the beans then and probably would have if Madame Kali hadn't overplayed her hand.

 

 

But Mr. Lyle said "us four and maybe one more" Dorian I guess?

 

No, he meant the Hound of God. He doesn't yet know that the Hound and Ethan are one and the same.

 

 

I have a few reactions, but my first is a question:  Is Dorian the incarnation (so to speak) of Lucifer's brother they were talking about tonight?!  Is that why he's a big character on the show with a seemingly separate storyline?

 

Glad I wasn't the only one who thought this. That would have been another game changer. Although, I can't imagine he would have let Vanessa get away so easily.

Edited June 22, 2015 by BuddhaBelly

[raven]

 

No, he meant the Hound of God. He doesn't yet know that the Hound and Ethan are one and the same.

Yes, watching again he says "we four and Mr Chandler and possibly one other, the Hound of God"  Though could it be that Pinkerton guy with the mutilated face is going to end up being the Hound/Wolf of God and have some part to play, if his wounds make him turn into a werewolf.

 

Still with that

 

Is Dorian the incarnation (so to speak) of Lucifer's brother they were talking about tonight?!  Is that why he's a big character on the show with a seemingly separate storyline?

This would make a lot of sense.  Could be he let Vanessa get away because he doesn't realize who/what he is?  That realization is bound into his picture?

 

Great episode, even with no Vanessa or Ethan.

Edited June 22, 2015 by raven

[yourmomiseasy]

I have a few reactions, but my first is a question:  Is Dorian the incarnation (so to speak) of Lucifer's brother they were talking about tonight?!  Is that why he's a big character on the show with a seemingly separate storyline?

 

According to Lyle's translation, Lucifer's brother that was cast to Earth feeds on the blood of the living by night.  I think that Victor and Sir Malcolm were likely correct when they guessed that the Vampire master that took Mina to get to Vanessa is the other brother.  Which ever brother gets the Mother of Evil (apparently Vanessa) will be freed from their hell, which is why they are both after her.

Edited June 22, 2015 by yourmomiseasy

[yourmomiseasy]

Sembene's claim to the title of smartest and most badass on this show is only rivaled by Vanessa.  Too bad he was too busy tucking Victor in to keep Sir Malcolm from going off to face the witches like an idiot.

[I-Kare]

I have a few reactions, but my first is a question:  Is Dorian the incarnation (so to speak) of Lucifer's brother they were talking about tonight?!  Is that why he's a big character on the show with a seemingly separate storyline?

 

 

That would be interesting. I can't honesty remember that much about the book (I read it in my teens). 

 

This is *not* directed at you in particular, I'm just using your comment as a jumping off point for something I've wanted to touch on. A lot of folks talk about Dorian as being separate, but to me he's never been separate as much as on the outskirts weaving in and out of their lives. He's had fairly important interactions with Vanessa, Ethan, Brona/Lily, even Victor. I think when there's such a small cast, someone like Dorian is important to move certain storylines along without having to go back to the well and the same relationships all of the time. Dorian is a good character for this because he himself isn't so much of an individual anymore...his entire existence is now made up of interactions with others as he seeks out new people, new experiences. 

[TrininisaScorp]

Ah, yourmomiseasy (hee), this makes sense.  I like completeness and I really want Dorian to be part of the main play.  I feel like it would explain a bit more about his tryst with Vanessa in S1 and how every female that comes his way ends up badly.  Upon rewatch though, I feel like you're right.  So what's Dorian's part in all of this?

 

ETA:  I-Kare, good thought and I enjoy hearing your POV.  IMO, I feel him as a removed entity b/c he isn't part of the Scooby gang against Satan, but he does have very important tentpole moments with all the characters, doesn't he?  

Edited June 22, 2015 by TrininisaScorp

[I-Kare]

Ah, yourmomiseasy (hee), this makes sense.  I like completeness and I really want Dorian to be part of the main play.  I feel like it would explain a bit more about his tryst with Vanessa in S1 and how every female that comes his way ends up badly.  Upon rewatch though, I feel like you're right.  So what's Dorian's part in all of this?

 

ETA:  I-Kare, good thought and I enjoy hearing your POV.  IMO, I feel him as a removed entity b/c he isn't part of the Scooby gang against Satan, but he does have very important tentpole moments with all the characters, doesn't he?  

 

 I know where you're coming from, and I honestly did just use you, so thank you for that! =D My comments were mainly based no a lot of reviewers who seem to think there's no need for the character, when I think he'd been more valuable than folks think. Even as a character that provided a vehicle for exposition in S1. I think if all episodes were just the Scooby gang, it'd become to feel claustrophobic. 

[pele2102]

I have so many feelings y'all. Never in a million years did I think hearing that shitty Irish accent again bring me so much joy. I am so Team Brona. I love that Claire came in with all that faux machismo bullshit and she just dommed/alpha'ed/batshit crazied whatever little plan he had out the window. I loved how terrified he was.

Oh Angelique you died as you lived, fucking fabulous. Dorian is such a piece of shit,which is the point I know, but damn homey didn't even blink when Angelique said she would accept him. RIP Angelique it would've been awesome if you had joined the main group to fight.

Idk I think baby witch has no idea who she's fucking with and Mama will end up correcting her ass real quick.

Edited June 22, 2015 by pele2102

[Glade]

So it seems that the brain damage which causes amnesia in the 'creatures' also turns them into psychopathic killers.  I suppose Perceus would have ended up the same way, and gained their superhuman strength had he lasted more then a few days.  Lily certainly is meant for Caliban, both of them are self-obsessed and lack empathy for others.  Lily just has no sensitivity, no more then Madam Kali, anyway, with her homophobic rape-kissing of poor Mr. Lyle.  I'm quite glad that given the historical progress, I don't have to live under the oppression and abuse that most Victorian men did.  That system wasn't good for anyone, including the homeless male prostitutes that were treated in similar ways.  I'd still take Victor over either of them, and I hope he is able to escape the hateful, pathetic wretches that plot against him.                

 

Anyway, I'm not very happy with Dorian's portrait.  That entire scene, like so many here, was so beautifully shot, then I didn't really get it.  It seemed as if (unless Angelique actually saw it moving) he could have just...given any other explanation for it, such as "oh, that's this old ugly painting I have, I keep it here so I can sell it one day though I don't like to look at it..."  Unlike the portrait in the book, it wasn't so recognizably, obviously him.  But I guess it is supernatural so Angelique could see through it.    That is so very sad.  Deep down neither of them could trust in each other's love.  Dorian is not the 'brother angel on earth' though, that was Dracula from last season, as the angel is a vampire.  I wonder if Dorian actually will approach Victor about Angelique... though I wouldn't recommend it.

 

I'm kind of glad that the rest of the cast, beyond Vanessa and Ethan, got their due screen time here.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Glade

[BuddhaBelly]

Victorian men were oppressed and abused?

Finally! Finally, someone questions the lack of servants in a house that big.

[GenieinTX]

I was disappointed in Dorian's picture, and I know it's nearly impossible to do it correctly.  But it wasn't "evil" enough for me.  He looked miserable and poor and old and bound, but not evil.  There should have been more demon to it I think.  I need to see it again.

 

Damn, I'm seriously loving Lily/Brona.  I had no idea that would be my favorite storyline and I'm being blown away by it.  I'm totally in.

[teddysmom]

Holy shit!  That was quite a ride. 

 

I was surprised at Dorian's picture, I thought it would be much worse. 

 

Now the question is - will Lily/Brona and Ethan meet up?  And will she remember he was the one man who was kind to her?  Also, can two dead people really have children to form an army of the dead?    That scene with Lilly & the Creature was the best.  "Shall we walk through the village hand in hand and then you can recite your fucking poetry to some cows?"   yikes

 

Loved that Malcolm thought he could take on Evelyn and the Mean Girls by himself.  

[islandgal140]

I missed looking at the pretty that is Ethan but damn this is perhaps one of the best episodes of what is already an outstanding season. 

 

There was a tremendous advancement of story last night.

 

I have been loving the puzzle solving on the show. Actually, add in Mr. Lyle leading the translation, you can count this as my favorite aspect of the show. Count me as surprised that they solved it with 2 episodes to go. Fully expected this to be stretched out more. Usually this is the time that I say that I am disappointed in the outcome but DAMN I loved the devil's narrative conclusion. So there were actually brothers - one condemned to earth to feed on the blood of the living and the other to hell to feed on souls. Dracula and Lucifer. Hot shit! Poor Dracula though he doesn't get near the shine as Lucifer.

 

One mystery I would like explained is how did poor Vanessa become the Mother of Evil. Possessed or just born that way? 

 

So glad to see the witches at least lose a bit when Malcolm was able to break the enchantment.

 

Helen McCrory is a QUEEN! She makes a spectacular villain. Her scene with Sir Malcolm were spell binding. Even though I am not remotely moved by her confessions of being lonely and alone (who told you to sell your ass to the devil) it was very nice to see genuine emotion coming from her. Although, color me surprised that she was catching feelings for Malcolm.  

 

Hecate needs an ass whomping. 

 

I could listen to Mr. Lyle talk all day. 

 

Way to wear your ovaries on the outside Brona/Lily. Okay, never in a million years did I think that this storyline would turn out to be damn near as compelling as the main story. At one point I was actually FF Victor/Brona scenes now I am freaking transfixed. Kudos of Billie P. Never thought she had this kind of performance in her. When she referred to Victor as creator my jaw dropped. Then that brogue showed up and I was too through! So she has been able to piece together who and what she is. 

 

Brona/Lily made John Clare her bitch. Had his ass on the floor, cowering and shaking with his mouth hanging open. Get it girl!!  

 

The only thing disappointing was the Dorian portrait reveal. Not nearly as gruesome as I thought it would be. Can't believe they waited damn near 2 seasons for that.  I do not believe that he is Lucifer's brother unless they show him drinking blood. Also, I would think the witches would have more of a reaction to him if he were. 

[Advance35]

That was an awesome episode.

 

Dorian Grey IS a villain.  I'm not surprised by this turn but I'm not at all familiar with the source material so I was surprised that he took out Angelique with zero remorse.   I thought Angelique had managed to hook the dilitente and we were heading towards a sort of love triangle with Pollyanna Lily, Jaded Dorian and Worldly Angelique.   The Old World society seemed to see people like Angelique as barely human, it's funny that in that particular triangle she was the most human between all 3.   Dorian has frequently come off as harmlessly bored or disinterested and it was good (from a writing/character perspective) that the reason he doesn't really connect with people or society isn't necessarily because he's different or goes against convention, it's because he has a truly cold heart.   Angelique thought they had a connection when the whole time she was just a plaything for Dorian, his latest curiousity.

 

Lily.........Oh boy, Here Go Hell Come.  While I'm not 100% on how long she's known her background or what precisely she remembers, it's clear she has simmered with rage and resentment that's carried over past her death.   I wonder if she hates Victor for making her a monster or killing her when she was human.   Her beating on Caliban verbally and physically was a shock.   Her ambition for destruction and murder and domination has just turned her into one of the show's most fascinating characters.    I wonder how long she's been fooling Victor, was it from the beginning or did it all come back at a certain point?

 

Cannot wait to see the final showdown between Ms. Poole and Ms. Ives.  I'm also looking forward to what will happen with Hecate.

 

Awesome episode.

[ShannaB]

This was the best episode of the series thus far IMHO.  I am torn with this show because the sets are beautiful and the cast is good but there is very little pay-off.  Plenty bells and whistles, smoke and mirrors, Eva Green contortions with bug eyes and oodles of dialogue but nothing that has led us anywhere.  At least we got some answers and forward momentum with this episode and I hope it continues for the last 2 eps or I may tear my hair out in frustration.  I love a good drama and I have a love for good horror and science fiction but I feel decidedly 'meh' with PD most of the time.  I'll keep my fingers crossed that the writers come up with something satisfying to end the Season.

 

I was glad that Mr. Lyle FINALLY figured out the story about the angels etc.  Mr. Lyle is an absolute joy and I hope he survives so he can continue to help the group next Season.  Josh Harknett is still yummers but I want more 'wolf' action please.  The portrait of Dorian was not as horrific as I thought it would be but I plan on watching the episode again and pay closer attention to details.  Poor Angelique.  I was mostly impressed with Billie Piper.  I have never seen her in anything that prepared me for her actions and speech to Caliban and she nailed it!!  Kudos indeed Ms Piper.  I am a sucker for Helen McCrory in anything.

 

I can't help but wonder what Dorian's place is in the story.  This is pure speculation but since he supposedly can't die, his injuries will manifest on the portrait except a beheading perhaps.  He could prove to be a good ally in a fight against the witches and Lucifer this Season.  Guess we shall see.

 

Lastly, I like Eva Green and I always have but I think I have seen my fill of her bat cray cray slithering contortions and dialogue.  I watched the short lived CAMELOT and she acted in a very similar manner.  I like her more without all the 'extras'.

This was the best episode of the series thus far IMHO.  I am torn with this show because the sets are beautiful and the cast is good but there is very little pay-off.  Plenty bells and whistles, smoke and mirrors, Eva Green contortions with bug eyes and oodles of dialogue but nothing that has led us anywhere.  At least we got some answers and forward momentum with this episode and I hope it continues for the last 2 eps or I may tear my hair out in frustration.  I love a good drama and I have a love for good horror and science fiction but I feel decidedly 'meh' with PD most of the time.  I'll keep my fingers crossed that the writers come up with something satisfying to end the Season.

 

I was glad that Mr. Lyle FINALLY figured out the story about the angels etc.  Mr. Lyle is an absolute joy and I hope he survives so he can continue to help the group next Season.  Josh Harknett is still yummers but I want more 'wolf' action please.  The portrait of Dorian was not as horrific as I thought it would be but I plan on watching the episode again and pay closer attention to details.  Poor Angelique.  I was mostly impressed with Billie Piper.  I have never seen her in anything that prepared me for her actions and speech to Caliban and she nailed it!!  Kudos indeed Ms Piper.  I am a sucker for Helen McCrory in anything.

 

I can't help but wonder what Dorian's place is in the story.  This is pure speculation but since he supposedly can't die, his injuries will manifest on the portrait except a beheading perhaps.  He could prove to be a good ally in a fight against the witches and Lucifer this Season.  Guess we shall see.

 

Lastly, I like Eva Green and I always have but I think I have seen my fill of her bat cray cray slithering contortions and dialogue.  I watched the short lived CAMELOT and she acted in a very similar manner.  I like her more without all the 'extras'.

[I-Kare]

To be honest, I think no matter what the portrait looked like, folks were going to be disappointed. Which is actually why I wasn't. 

[luckyroll3]

Oh Caliban.  He was such the big, bad monster threatening everybody about what's his.  Then all Lily had to do toss him around a bit and threaten to fuck him and he crumbled like the coward he is.  He couldn't even get past a stutter.

 

I bet Lily has known since she got the clothes and was questioning the corset and shoes.  I always thought her "if you'd like to me wear it, I will, for you" nonsense was a bit much.  Also, she was definitely the one driving the sexual encounter between herself and Victor...shades of her former memories perhaps.  

 

Great episode, but I needed more Ethan chopping down trees!

[cali1981]

Even without Eva Green it was a great episode with so much ground covered on several fronts.  I can't stop marveling at Billie Piper's amazing scene with Rory Kinnear last night.  Lily revealing to "Mr. Clare" how much she was aware of and who the two of them really were was showstopping.  It was made even more effective by having Brona's Irish accent coming out.  When she referred to Victor as "their creator" it was chilling.  Her anger and her "manifesto" seemed to be a melding of her current awareness and Brona's old life as a prostitute.  Can't wait to see how Lily's new personality unfolds.  Men of London, keep your trousers zippered up if you know what's good for you. 

Edited June 22, 2015 by cali1981

[Dirtybubble]

I have a few reactions, but my first is a question:  Is Dorian the incarnation (so to speak) of Lucifer's brother they were talking about tonight?!  Is that why he's a big character on the show with a seemingly separate storyline?

 

 

Glad I wasn't the only one who thought this. That would have been another game changer. Although, I can't imagine he would have let Vanessa get away so easily.

 

I figured Dorian was a servant or maybe a recipient of Satan not Satan's brother exactly.  If he was he would be more eager to get to Vanessa.  The vibe I got from him recently is that he had moved on from her to another oddity.  I've never read "A Portrait of Dorian Gray" so I don't know how he ends up with this painting originally put in PD's world anything like immortality comes from the Devil.

 

Oh and count me in as underwhelmed by the portrait.  Meh, it was kinda creepy when it moved (I'm assuming that happens every time a new sin is committed) but IDK I was expecting it to be more....monsterous.

 

 

[luckyroll3]

I'm not sure what I was expecting from the picture, just that I was expecting....more.  I have read the book (it's actually in my top 3), and the descriptions make it seem so gruesome and awful.  Here is the portrait from the movie that was made a couple years ago.  

 

I like the rotting and the feeling of some evil there....

Compared to the original from the movie: 

[cali1981]

The picture was a bit underwhelming until it moved.  That was unexpected.  This is the portrait from the great 1945 movie starring Hurd Hatfield and Angela Landsbury among others.

 

               

Edited June 22, 2015 by cali1981

[Waldo13]

One of the best things about Penny Dreadful, beside the acting, sets, special effects, costumes, etc. is the dialog. I love to hear Victorian English. It's so poetic and makes all the interactions, between characters, much more meaningful. I also have to say kudos to BP. She brought so much passion to her speach that it was very plausible that she had the Creature shaking in his boots. This was BP's moment to shine but Vanessa brings it everytime she is on screen. I'm hoping that EG is finally going to get an Emmy nomination which she should of had last year. Beside BP, I'm a little surprised by JH elevating his acting ability into some very strong performances as Venessa's protector.

I'm surprised though by Dorien's portrait reveal. Why was he in chains? Was it because that was his fate and not how the portrait was originally painted. Dorien, according to the novel, is a sexual statist, but as the portrait aged, the look on Dorien's face became more cruel and demented. I guess the writers took the same dramatic license with Dorian's story as they did with Frankenstein's story.

In any case, Penny Dreadful is another fantastic series presented by Showtime.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Waldo13

[Domenicholas]

Dorian's portrait looked as though he had spent years being tortured by Ramsay Bolton.

 

Poor Angelique.  This is the second prominent prostitute that has been killed on the series (although Brona was resurrected).  The next time a sex worker appears on this show as a recurring character, I'm going to be nervous.

 

Speaking of Brona, I loved how the her Irish accent came out the angrier she became.  That was brilliant.

 

I also like how Sembene put the cover over a sleeping Victor.  Penny Dreadful is great with little details like that.  It's not all plot, plot, plot; the writers take the time to develop their characters and their relationships.  Although both the plot and characters are well-developed in Penny Dreadful, I love how character-driven, rather than plot-driven, the show is.

[NorthstarATL]

I could probably look it up, but perhaps the setting of the series is still early on in Dorian's life? The painting gets worse as Dorian's sins accumulate IIRC, and we've seen him bored and toying with people to amuse himself, but nothing on the level of what he did to Angelique until this episode. (I read the book in school, and have seen both the films with Hatfield and Barnes, as well as LOEG, and my recollections tend to meld together. My ultimate casting for Dorian BTW, would have been Douglas Booth.)

  Had to post, though, to concur with the prevailing opinion about Lily! THAT was the scene that made me rewatch! What an amazing way to turn the "Bride" story on it's head! Piper was amazing! I could barely watch her scenes in season 1 due to the consumption and the awful accent, but what a payoff this season! The ruse she's been pulling off on everyone is awesome! I am excited about where the story goes from here1

[Shadowlass]

I have a few reactions, but my first is a question:  Is Dorian the incarnation (so to speak) of Lucifer's brother they were talking about tonight?!  Is that why he's a big character on the show with a seemingly separate storyline?

 

That was my take on it. It should bring his relationship to the other characters into focus if it is.

 

I couldn't abide the actor who played Angelique, so I was delighted when she died. When Dorian handed her the drink I thought they were actually going to work through it, but when I saw it was champagne I knew she was a goner. Whiskey would have been to fortify them; champagne was way too momentous, almost elegiac: Well, I'm going to kill you, so you might as well have some champagne. 'Bye now.

 

I look forward to seeing how Dorian's evil will affect the main characters.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Shadowlass

[Ravenya003]

Wait a second, guys. Was Malcolm just outed by Evelyn as Vanessa's biological father? Or was she referencing their emotional father/daughter connection?

[mister gloom]

Alright I'm rerunning my DVDVR of the portrait scene and I don't think Dorian is either of the fallen angels.  He was too shocked when the portrait swivled its head and *looked* at him for it to be one of the fallen angels (and I don't think that would have happened with either of them anyways)..  Now as to how he got the portrait?  I don't think it'll be the same source as the original story...

 

Regarding Dorian murdering Angelique?  The fact that he was as casual about killing him as he was indicates this isn't his first rodeo.

 

At least Hecate is honest, both her and her mother will kill Lyle, but she'll let him live longer. 

 

Also, I liked the empowerment themes of Lilly/Brona's monologue but, if thought about, it sets the stage that she's far worse than Caliban/Clare is.  He has one virtue and one flaw that actually limits the overall damage that he can do.  The virtue is, that while he's certainly capable of remorselessly killing others he's capable of at least actual affection (and not wanting to intentionally hurt) at least some people based on what we've seen.  He also has a stunning inferiority complex that limits the scope of the large scale damage he's capable of causing (as a matter of fact, I think his shock and fear at Brona's monologue was based as much on scope of what she was saying as on finding someone who'd actually stand up to him...the whole "Humanity's blood will water our garden bit"...he seemed to get noticeably more freaked out around this part of the scene).

[TrininisaScorp]

Wait a second, guys. Was Malcolm just outed by Evelyn as Vanessa's biological father? Or was she referencing their emotional father/daughter connection?

Interesting! I read that as Evelyn trying to pervert the father/daughter thing to make it seem sexual in some twisted way.

 

I love all the posting about the painting!  It looked Gollum-ish to me, but I didn’t think it could live up to the Maris-level expectations either and was fine with  it.

[raven]

I felt the same about Caliban, mister gloom.  That he wasn't afraid of Lily so much for his own sake, but he was shocked at how far she went, what she was saying.  Combine that with her sexual aggressiveness towards him - while calling him "ugly" and "monster" and he was literally speechless.  Caliban rants and threatens Victor, but if push came to shove I don't think he would kill him as part of Lily's plan (impulsively, in anger I could see him doing it).    I think the resurrection procedure has left Lily insane (pyschopathic, probably).   The customer she killed didn't abuse her or threaten her, for example, so there was no ambiguity that he got what was coming to him. 

 

Billie Piper did a tremendous job, starting slowly with a stand up and cheer type of speech but then progressing to full out nuttiness.   I have to wonder if she was playing at being innocent the whole time and what she remembers of her life as Brona. 

 

It's true that we've seen that Caliban can care about others and Lily seems to lack that.  What a great twist, can't wait to see how it develops.

[LittleIggy]

Mr. Lyle is my favorite character.

[absolutelyido]

One mystery I would like explained is how did poor Vanessa become the Mother of Evil. Possessed or just born that way?

I don't understand this either. Have they ever explained why Vanessa is the chosen one to be the devil's bride?

 

Wait a second, guys. Was Malcolm just outed by Evelyn as Vanessa's biological father? Or was she referencing their emotional father/daughter connection?

That was my take on it. I wonder if it is going to turn out that Vanessa being 'the chosen one' has something to do with her being Malcolm's daughter? When Sembene screamed at Malcolm "Know who you are", was that a hint that there is more to Malcolm than we know, but Sembene knows? Is Malcolm somehow to blame for Vanessa being stalked by the devil?

 

Seems like we finally learned how Sembene can manage that large house without a staff. They appear to be only using a few rooms and the rest is closed off.

Edited June 23, 2015 by absolutelyido

[withanaich]

 

Wait a second, guys. Was Malcolm just outed by Evelyn as Vanessa's biological father? Or was she referencing their emotional father/daughter connection?

That is exactly what Evelyn was saying. What we don't know, however, is whether it's true or not. She could very likely be saying it just to toy with him. 

 

I was disappointed by the painting too -- it seemed more sad than monstrous -- but glad they didn't drag the reveal out any longer. 

 

And Sembene continues to be awesome. Everyone else was standing around gaping at the possessed Malcolm and Sembene immediately started grappling with him. Sembene is the MVP of monster hunters.

[Sakura12]

Damn LilyBrona, I wonder if she's known who she was from the beginning and was just playing Victor? That was some great acting from Billie Piper but then again I'm one of the few that loved Rose on Doctor Who. I think my favorite part was she got Caliban to shut up and put him in his place. He was always walks in all angry using his strength to bully Victor, it was nice to see Lily do that back to him. I wonder if he's going to continue to like her, knowing she's more of a monster then he is.

 

I was also surprised the story went that way, I figured he'd go after Dorian not confront Lily. That's what's so great about this it's one of the few shows that is actually unpredictable. 

 

Vanessa's, Malcolm's daughter. That one i kind of figured in the beginning mostly because it explains why he tired so hard to protect her. She's his last surviving family. 

 

I thought the all point of the Portrait was that Dorian couldn't look at it? I hope they explain his deal since they changed his story around. Could he be the true Vampire Master? Meaning he is the Lucifer's brother that can turn people into blood suckers that do his bidding? 

 

Sir Malcolm has Sembene, that's all the household staff he needs. 

 

I hope Mr. Lyle survives the season, he's become on my favorite characters. 

Edited June 23, 2015 by Sakura12

[Dobian]

This may have been the best episode of the series to date, and ironically Vanessa wasn't even in it.  Lily...where did that come from?  Caliban could only listen to her in dumbfounded amazement through her whole monologue, which I have to re-watch to soak in everything she said.  The ballroom flashback scene with Malcolm was hauntingly beautiful.  We got to see the picture of Dorian Gray at last, at the sad expense of Angelique.  Everyone was on their A game in this episode, it was brilliant.

[ganesh]

First of all, I'm *devastated* that Vanessa wasn't in the portrait.

 

Is Dorian the incarnation (so to speak) of Lucifer's brother they were talking about tonight?!

 

I would think he has to be. When Mr. Lyle mentioned two brothers I immediately thought of Dorian. I have no idea how that happened, so if Vanessa (as one of the fallen) had something to do with the portrait and imprisoning within, I'm still calling it a win for me. 

 

Not for anything, if the head vampire from last season was supposed to be the brother, they really dispatched of him rather easily, for the *brother of the literal devil*. I would think that Mr. Lyle coming to the conclusion about there actually being a brother now, would be both are still in play. It's a weird after the fact otherwise and dramatically backward from a tv standpoint. 

 

 

Sembene knows who the Hound of God is.

I know. I was all like "SHHH!" When he yelled out, "HOUND?!" SHH!

 

I do like how smart Mr Lyle was to suggest Vanessa leave and not tell anyone. He knew he was going to be threatened. 

 

I think that one scene was the best acting of BP's than all of Doctor Who. How did she figure out who she was though? She knows Victor created her. Does she know Brona now too? I do love how this show makes me laugh. Caliban was all "you are mine blah blah" and she totally flips on him. I thought he peed himself. 

 

I also laughed when Evelyn was doing all her witchy things and being all smug and Malcolm totally breaks the spell. with Sembene knowing what to do so quickly, I wonder what experience he's had. 

Edited June 23, 2015 by ganesh

[TiffanyNichelle]

Interesting! I read that as Evelyn trying to pervert the father/daughter thing to make it seem sexual in some twisted way.

I thought it was both. She was hinting that he could be Vanessa's father and that he still thought about her in a sexual way.

 

I'm confused on how Malcolm figured out Evelyn was the witch behind it all.

[Mockingbird]

Not for anything, if the head vampire from last season was supposed to be the brother, they really dispatched of him rather easily, for the *brother of the literal devil*. I would think that Mr. Lyle coming to the conclusion about there actually being a brother now, would be both are still in play. It's a weird after the fact otherwise and dramatically backward from a tv standpoint.

I've just marathoned PD in a couple of days, after catching Little Scorpion and being intrigued. I'm fairly positive that the vampire brother on earth (whether it's Dracula or Dorian or something else) is still alive as Malcolm killed the head vampire and all of the vamps it had turned were also killed. Mina didn't die with that vampire, so the vampire big bad (presumably the brother, using Mina to get Vanessa) is still around.

Damn, Dorian. You don't get to accuse Angelique of not being able to love you while you're holding poison with her name on it. And if Dorian hadn't confessed to the painting being him, he could have played it off as some weird, haunted portrait of an ancestor. He was bored with Angelique and just looking for an excuse to be rid of her.

Echoing all the love for Sembene and Lyle. And Malcolm has regained my favor (I'm not even mad at him for believing he could handle the witches himself, because of course he would.) But the biggest surprise was Brona/Lily. I've seen BP in lots of things, but she's never been that good.

[Cthulhudrew]

Ever since they brought Brona/Lilly back to be the "bride of Frankenstein," I was hoping they wouldn't gloss over the chauvinistic hubris that brought about her resurrection, but I didn't think they'd actually address it.

 

Holy cow, was I wrong. And happily so. She's been pretty obviously aware of their selfish little obsessions for quite a while now (likely since "birth") and her well-deserved antipathy towards their male possessiveness has been gestating ever so quietly underneath. Brilliant.

 

On another note, I was really hoping Caliban would get his due comeuppance when he confronted her, but I have to admit a sense of remorse and pity for the utter depths to which she unmanned, humiliated, and manipulated him. I was just kind of hoping he'd get knocked around a bit. She tore him down. As much as his character can achieve levels of loathing, he still somehow manages to be very vulnerable at times, and his horror and disgust and weakness and capitulation really showed through her just as well as Lilly's disdain and hatred did.

 

And I find myself wondering if Dorian and his eternal youth are somehow connected to the plot (plight?) of Madame Kali, Lucifer, and Dracula. Running themes here all around (for that matter, the Frankenstein monsters and their rebirth/undeath themes). 

[Fredward]

Caliban annoys my man-tits. Wanna be a whiny, abused martyr for everything that's wrong with the world? Cool. Wanna be a bullyish asshole embodying everything that's wrong with the world? Kay. But don't be fucking BOTH! God. He reminds me of my teenage sister when my parents complain about her behaviour 'Yes well you raised me this way so it's your fault.' Right cuz that's how it works. You can just constantly shift personal responsibility for your actions to the next available party. In the end we can just blame everything on Adam and Eve and continue to be dicks to each other. He had that smackdown coming.

 

I get the distinct impression that Billy Piper has been waiting almost two seasons to deliver that scene and it was SOOOO worth it. Really blew it out of the park. I like where they're going, thematically. This utterly glorious, gratuitous explosion of bottled up resentment and hate. She scares me but it's a good kind of afraid. In comparison to Claire she's at least genuine and consistent, batshit but authentic to her own brand of batshit. Wonder where they're gonna take Dorian's continued interest.

Speaking of, I know I shouldn't have been but I was surprised at him being such as ass. You could at least have caught her Dorian you meany. I think the portrait is limited in the horror factor cuz they're gonna recreate it on the actor at some point, probably towards the end of the series. Slight aside: I wish they'd do something different with his damned hair. The one length and weird part does him no favours. Dorian likes to shock so that'll justify some anachronistic styling.

 

Malcolm being the traditional kind of male stupid, Evelyn called it. I wish they did the whole sympathetic angle on her sooner though, towards the end do you really want your villain appearing too soft? Maybe it's supposed to pave the way for her less 'sentimental' daughter though.

 

Everyone seems to be forgetting that Lyle is still technically under the employ of the witches. Sent specifically to mess with the translation. Now I also think he's 98% Team Vanessa but he could be lying about some integral part of that translation. Also, have we actually seen Dracula? Or only ever his minions? Cuz I don't think we've actually ever seen the satan's bro, Mina was still acting like she was under his sway at the end yeah? I dunno. Think that might be season 3's thing.

[ganesh]

What sympathetic angle? She was playing Malcolm the entire time. Remember when the Hecate was like, "She won't give you what she promised? I won't either but you'll live longer." Evelyn was doing what she could to get him to give up Vanessa. 

 

I don't think Mr. Lyle is lying about the translation because some of the others have also been helping with the translation as well. I think the puzzle is just too much of a challenge for him to solve to fake it. 

[spaceghostess]

Didn't post earlier because I've been pondering (and rewatching) this episode, and really enjoying everyone else's posts about it.

 

I thought it was amazing. And, like a few others, I wasn't sure an episode sans Vanessa could be amazing. This show, it knows what it's doing.

 

Some leftover ponderings:

 

--BroLily (LilOna?). Pretty much all that can be said already has been, but: Will she keep the name Victor gave her? I suppose from a writing standpoint, it's easier to keep "Lily" (and going back to Brona is definitely out) but I'd love to see this kickass creature name herself.

 

--It seems as though Victor will be safe from his children for the next little while, as he'll be running around witch hunting. I guess this thread will carry over to Season 3? That would be fine with me. But when push comes to shove, will John really be able to kill his dad? If he maintains his friendship with Vanessa, I think it'll become increasingly difficult for him to follow in Lily's murderous tracks. I mean, once they're past the honeymoon phase.

 

--Dorian. Welp, I really liked Angelique, but I would have been disappointed to see Dorian have a real relationship, because--unless they're really straying from his literary incarnation--that just isn't him. Dorian's bad news; Beautiful, creepy, remorseless bad news. Like Evelyn, he's made a devil's bargain and anyone who remains too long in his sphere is doomed. Will future seasons show a chink in his armor? I'm open to that--just not yet. And yeah, I think it's almost impossible to make the portrait scary enough, The definitive one for me has always been the 1940s movie version, which is so over the top in its grotesquerie and makes even more of an impact because it's the only thing in color in a black and white film. Still, I liked the subtlety of PD's version. The figure moving is a nice touch, but I want to see it look more evil and less victimized as time passes.

 

--What will happen with the Lily/Dorian flirtation? She'll have quite the surprise if/when she tries to kill him.

 

--Sembene manhandling Sir Malcolm into the ballroom and forcing him to deal with his shit was everything. His backstory must be revealed next season. Also, get the man a staff to manage and stop making him do menial labor around that house. Or give him some other job worthy of his awesomeness. C'mon, Show.

 

--Sir Malcolm: Was it one perfect moment, one perfect town party, he was remembering, or simply a fantasy of his family and his role as the benevolent patriarch? Whatever, the rude awakening just burst out of those caskets. What he heard at the seance may feel tame compared to the earful he'll be getting from those guys.

 

--Witch-ay women: I'm going to miss Helen McCrory like a mofo. And because she's an evilly immortal witch, she can't even come back as her own twin sister, dangit. Hecate's gunning for mom will weaken both of them in the end.

 

--I'll add my name to the endless list of those who thought Billie Piper brought it like no other with Lily's speech. And kudos to Logan, of course, for that great, great piece of writing.

 

Looking forward to the return of Vanessa and Ethan for the last two eps. The shit will be hitting the fan with extreme prejudice, and I, for one, can't wait.

 

Edited because: typos

Edited June 23, 2015 by spaceghostess

[DarkRaichu]

We have not seen Dracula / the other brother yet.  In season 1, after they killed the Egyptian vampire, Mina was STILL under control of her Master.  The heroes were just made to think that the ship was actually carrying the big bad.  Perhaps the egyptian was one of the first turned vampire but not the source.

 

I wonder if Lilly's memory came back after Dorian's ball.  She seemed to recognize the ballroom with hundreds of pictures.  She further remembered when she danced with Dorian.  She also started to drink afterwards

[ganesh]

Maybe the drinking kicked it in. 

[cali1981]

I wonder if Lilly's memory came back after Dorian's ball.  She seemed to recognize the ballroom with hundreds of pictures.  She further remembered when she danced with Dorian.  She also started to drink afterwards

Didn't Victor's second creation Proteus begin to recall some memories of his past life when he visited the docks?  Like Lily, he was created from one body not patched together from various bodies like Caliban was. Perhaps that difference is why they began to remember and Caliban could not.