Kelly File: Duggar Interview Part 2 2015.06.05

[Churchhoney]

Razzleberrypie, thanks for your reply, and I'm glad we got the "leaked" thing clarified upthread. I see where you're coming from, but I bet InTouch had more than one tipster, and they will never disclose their identities. 

 

On another point, here's a thoughtful and academic-sounding blog post discussing Jill and Jessa's interview in the context of their family/religious beliefs: http://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2015/06/the-first-step-towards-understanding.html It's not a quick read, but I thought it would be worth mentioning here.

 

Thanks for posting this. This piece looks right on the money to me.

[truthtalk2014]

They've never visited an AG store on the show, like the Gosselins did, but Josie did specifically say she like playing with her American Girl doll(s). Who knows if they bought it straight out, or it was a gift.

 

Side note: growing up, a friend of mine was a PK from a very normal, down to earth family. Two boys, then a huge (14 year) gap, and then a surprise baby sister. Their parents though their family with 2 boys was complete, and didn't plan a new baby when the boys were starting to head off to college. Some people in their congregation were so enamored with the new baby girl, and that she was FINALLY getting her sweet girl (not that she'd ever said that herself), that without the mother every asking or hinting for anything, people were constantly dropping off gifts. Their mother actually said the attention was overwhelming, but she knew it was par for the course as a reverend's wife. She also said she had never purchased a package of diapers, toys, or a stitch of clothing until she started school, because it almost became a competition between some older ladies as to who could deck out the Baby Girl better. Then it became a competition with some of the men as to who would provide a fancier stroller, car seat, etc. There was so much stuff that she actually initiated a program that donated baby supplies to families in need, so she could shift some of that excess generosity into families that needed it. 

 

It was sort of like during the Depression, when families were starving, but would send Shirley Temple scads of toys, because she was so adorable (which she also donated)

 

Anyway...........I wonder if the Lost Girls' AG dolls came from admirers or fans. If the family truly does not have television, homeschools, homechurches, buys used, etc., I don't know how those little girls would be aware that AG dolls are really desirable and that they'd want one. IMO, they're 99% prestige symbols, and don't look an more entertaining or worthwhile that all the dolls at Wal-mart or whatever (although I loved the historical books when I was a kid, but the dolls were just way too expensive for our large family).

Sorry, but if I had to send dolls to that household, I would send the triplets that we bought at Toys R Us about 3 or 4 years ago.  I think it was a mistake or maybe not, but some of the dolls cursed.

 

 

LOL- not being mean but myself and hubby are major practical jokers.  We got a set of the triplets for his 76 year old mother ( who used to curse like a sailer but gave it up in favor of watching TBN.  HELP ME!)  She loves dolls and loved the dolls.  

 

She kept them on her sofa and people would come over and comment that it sounded as if one was saying "bitch"  We assured her it was not true. lol  

[cheatincheetos]

I'm not sure why they'd want to go down the corporate parent rabbit hole. Leaving aside the polyamory and bride buying and bad sex on TLC, Discovery Communications produces shows like Teen Sex, Porn Star Virgins, and Sex Addicts for the european market, and their biggest investor owns reddit.

Yes. If they tie InTouch to porn that way then they would have to accuse Hobby Lobby of investing in abortions because their pension fund, like many, invests in big cap pharma stocks, most of which produce at least one abortion-related drug.

[RandomX]

I get the impression that Jim Bob is still angling for a TLC show or specials minus Josh but with JB still calling the shots. What will interest me is whether we'll see the current unified approach break down because the Seewalds or Dillards (less likely) understand that Jessa/Ben's and Jill/Derrick's interests differ from JB's on this issue. Ben's father has taken the stage before to call for a marriage when JB seemed to be on a timetable that differed from Ben's.

[Just24]

1. Josh molested two sisters.

2. Josh came forward to his parents and admitted this.

3. Nothing was done and Josh escalated.

4. Josh escalated badly enough that he did it again to another survivor in front of others 

5. Someone went to Ma and Pa and told on him (for TomServo should he? show up - this impression is from other sources than the police report)

6. Josh was pulled out of the house and sent away to whatever that building was that was Gothard owned, previously owned by Hobby Lobby to do something, construction?  Repairs?  Perhaps to prepare it for a new prison ministry?

7. JimBob brought Josh unfortunately to the PedoStatie for a stern talking to, PedoStatie failed to file a report

8. Specials are taped and broadcast

9. Somebody contacted HARPO and they pulled an interview and sent the Duggars packing, they also forwarded the email to the authorities (I don't know what authorities)

10. The police and DHS became involved.  I honestly believe that they all did get some kind of licensed therapy here, I have no idea if it was enough, but it was enough to meet DHS requirments.

11. I think that Josh was placed on some sort of offender list, probably not the Sex Offender Registry, but something a step down from that - and then filed to be removed once he met the requirements of DHS.

12. The Duggars get a series.

13. The Duggars become increasingly political.

14. Josh gains employment with the FRC.

15. Michelle tapes a hateful bigoted robocall that is a screed against transgender women.

 

I wonder at what point in all of this did Jim Bob decide that they were going to build the new family home. Josh was sent away to remodel a building. Let's not forget that after he returned, Josh helped his dad build the new family home. Almost makes it seem like Josh was sent away for a construction apprenticeship instead of be given proper therapy for inappropriate behaviors. Josh can come back from this apprenticeship and help the family build a new house which will save the family money. That's what's important here, right? After all, how many times have we seen the Duggars on the show working with various construction crews learning how to do those jobs so the Duggars can do those jobs by themselves in the future to save money.

[OSM Mom]

I wonder how long it's going to be before Josh surfaces.

[JenCarroll]

I think most of the folks who were frequenting this forum before this story broke, are very aware of Gothard's views and teachings.

[NextIteration]

I wonder at what point in all of this did Jim Bob decide that they were going to build the new family home. Josh was sent away to remodel a building. Let's not forget that after he returned, Josh helped his dad build the new family home. 

 

Bless your heart!  I soooo had a senior moment this morning and couldn't think of the word!!!!

[GEML]

I've always had the impression that Josh was very angry with JB about having to work on the house. He was never a (forgive the phrase - everything seems loaded now) "hands on" kind of Duggar and JB never seemed to praise him the way he did John David, Joseph, or even the girl, who seemed fairly talented at several different skills.

Now we know why JB wasn't handing out any praise and Josh might have been justifiably angry that he had a real problem and his parents' solution was to do build them a house where he wouldn't really be welcome instead of getting him real counseling. I think Josh had the most connections to the outside world, and is genuinely intelligent (if severely stunted) and knew not only what he was doing was wrong, but the way it was being handled was wrong too.

[cmr2014]

I wonder if the concept that they have a responsibility to their audience has ever entered their minds. They grew up answering only to their parents. AFAIK, they have never been in any situation such as school or a job or a sports team, where they were under the direction (or "authority") of anyone other than their parents. The exception would be their stints at ATI/IBLP camps/events, where they answered to the person(s) in charge there. (And maybe midwife training?)

 

I think their views are very limited. They seem to feel entitled to be "on TV" but not "of TV," to paraphrase their comment in the interview. After all, they grew up under JB's headship, with TV crews around for half their lives, and they didn't do a damned thing to earn that exposure except be born a Duggar. I really think they lack the perspective to feel any responsibility to their viewers. 

 

I think that most people (whether they like JB and J'chelle or not) have liked the kids, and you see lots of hope for them in the "Free Junger" "Free Jana" remarks, the hope that Cathy or Guinn will step up and take her daughter-in-law under her wing, etc.I am beginning to notice, though, that as the kids reach adulthood, they are becoming unlikable in their own right.

 

Josh has been called "Smuggar" for years, and as much as people like Anna and the kids, Josh's relationship with FRC and his fringe political statements haven't gained him tons of new supporters.

 

Jill was very popular last year and there was a lot of excitement that Derick might help broaden her horizons but it soon became clear that Jill had no interest in becoming a Dillard and expected Derick to become a Duggar. I think that even the most ardent humper would have been put off by listening to Jill talk about how she wanted to "put those same safeguards in place" in her own home.

 

Jessa lost a lot of popularity last year for her strident self-righteous religious posts and while she's riding a wave of popularity right now, I think that her smug, sanctimonious self is going to put an end to that pretty quickly.

 

My point is that when you strip away that veneer of hope that we have layered over them and look at the people they actually are, they are just not very likeable. They are smug, and almost comically over-confident and completely clueless about their own lack of education, skill, and ability (e.g. Jill's birth plan). There is no humility or graciousness in any of them (e.g. the sense of being entitled to their own show, their lack of gratitude toward their fans). They are humorless in general and particularly lacking in the ability to laugh at themselves.

 

Even if the show were to continue, I don't know how many more kids "not holding hands until we are engaged" and "not kissing until our wedding day" people are ready to sit through. Meanwhile, the level of control that JB exerts over his grown children becomes more and more evident and more and more disturbing. If the girls got their own show, what would they do? Jessa burns dinner while waiting for Ben to return from his day of cleaning toilets? Jill buckles Izzy into the SUV so they can go and have lunch with Derick at WalmMart?

 

JB and J'chelle should have more than enough income to raise their children from their real estate holdings, and if they don't that's their problem. If they chose to bring 19 children into the world and thought they could pay for it by having a reality show and going on speaking tours, they made a serious mistake. I feel bad for the kids, but not bad enough to watch any more of anyone purposing to keep sweet.

[Aethera]

Folks, it seems we're moving away from discussing the episode, and onto more general topics.  There are threads in this forum for each of the kids, the parents, their friends, etc - let's start posting to the proper threads, please! General posts about the scandal can go in the Josh thread, where they've been up to now. We aren't going to try and move everything, but we will start hiding posts that have nothing to do with the Kelly Files episode.  If you want your excellent, well-reasoned posts about other issues to stay visible, please put them where they belong!

[poopchute]

I finally got around to watching this and wow, what absolute horseshit. I see Jill has the same script on her lap that Michelle had. Couldn't they try using some different words so it wasn't so obvious that they were all just reading from the same paper? Do Jill and Jessa even know what the word "agenda" means? As I heard each unique phrase repeated from part one I just kept thinking that these people are all so dumb. "LICENSED counseling" "he paid for it himself" "everyone knows FOIA doesn't include juvenile records" "maybe it was an agenda" blah blah. I have been reading the comments here but I didn't realize how obvious it was that these girls clearly had nothing to do with these answers and they were just repeating what they were told to say. Pretty sad that these girls couldn't even make their own statement.

[wanderwoman]

I think Dr Ablow said they are just nuts the way they live.

I found the clip of Ablow and the minister!

http://deadstate.org/dr-keith-ablow-dismantles-christian-pastor-josh-duggar-fits-the-profile-of-a-pedophile/

Watching that video made one thing pop into my head.

If, as the Duggars girls claim, they were totally knocked out and didn't even know Josh abused them, then WHAT story or testimony could they give? None. If you don't know something happened, you can't testify to it. What they're confirming is that Jim Bob and Mchelle GAVE THEM THE OFFICIAL STORY. And, if you look at the report, there's no way those girls got licensed counselling immediately after the abuse because the therapist would have been a mandated reporter and it wouldn't have taken a found letter to out the problem. Logically, and legally, this didn't go down the way the Duggars claim or there's a therapist that needs to lose his/ her license. For that matter, if Josh's actions were touchy touchy over the clothes only, then one if the victims lied (because the report is clear she was touched under her clothes and held against a washer). So, why are the Duggars minimising her experience?

Edited June 7, 2015 by wanderwoman

[JenCarroll]

Watching that video made one thing pop into my head.

If, as the Duggars girls claim, they were totally knocked out adding even know Josh abused them, then WHAT story or testimony could they give? None. If you don't know something happened, you can't testify to it. What they're confirming is that Jim Bob and Mchelle GAVE THEM THE OFFICIAL STORY. And, if you look at the report, there's no way those girls got licensed counselling immediately after the abuse because the therapist would have been a mandated reporter and it wouldn't have taken a found letter to out the problem. Logically, and legally, this didn't go down the way the Duggars claim or there's a therapist that needs to lose his/ her license. For that matter, if Josh's actions were touchy touchy over the clothes only, then one if the victims lied (because the report is clear she was touched under her clothes and held against a washer). So, why are the Duggars minimising her experience?

Well, I think we all know why... :-)

I mean, this situation is not funny at all; in fact it's horrible. But some of that Duggar predictability will always be kind of darkly amusing to me.

[Love2dance]

I feel sorry for you mods. You must be EXHAUSTED!

[wanderwoman]

I want to be clear: I hope that the girls truly didn't know they were being abused. There's nothing that would make me happier! But, pushing someone up against a washer and reaching up for a feelsky implies that the girl was being cornered or restricted in her movement. The laundry room where the abuse occupied was in the basement where Jimger was born. Not the hallway of the rental of the airy, big laundry room in the tth. For that matter, now that we know who the two sleeping victims were and can read the redacted report, these weren't crimes of opportunity. Those girls slept, in the Johnson road house, in a room in the basement. He had to go past mom and dad, down the stairs, and in their room. How common was it for people to be wandering around in the middle of the night that you don't wake up? We were babysitting one of DH's coroner's kids last night. She's 9. After she went to sleep, I went in to check on her and pulled another blanket up over her. She woke just from the blanket being put on her, not touched or taken off. I don't think the girls are lying - I just find it almost impossibly coincidental that they all slept so deeply with someone touching them. Of course, they did share beds so maybe it wasn't unusual for them? I.don't know.

[bubbls]

Minimizing is common with victims no matter how you were raised. I find it as creepy as everyone, but minimizing and even defending the abuser isn't so uncommon. I personally know women who have done these very things. I'm not at all surprised. While I find the way they were raised to be extreme to put it mildly, I don't see how it played much part in their current attitudes towards the abuse. If facing sexual abuse and reporting it was easy it wouldn't be so very under reported and swept under the rug.

I feel sorry for the victims because dealing with it will be very difficult in their environment. I grew up in a similar one. Best thing they could do would be get on birth control and move far, far away.

Regarding their "accredited" counseling I suspect that means accredited by the Godhard system.

Edited June 7, 2015 by bubbls

[Ripley68]

Bringing over from another thread:

Watching all this reminds me of a friend I had in college.  Her Dad was her personal doctor and OB?GYN, and she saw nothing wrong with it!  It squicked me out in all kinds of ways, but she was all like, 'no big deal."  She never seemed traumatized or anything, but I would look at that as incest.

 

The girls are reacting the same way, it was no big deal.  He did it, he got some sort of rehab, it's over.  I understand their anger at eveyrones interpretation of events when only they know what really happened.  I"m totally torn on this.  I think what he did at the time was icky, but we don't know the whole circumstance, and never will.  From what we've seen the last few years, he wouldn't do it now.  I do call hypocrisy on making your living by having your life televised, than crying when something you don't like is made public, but I understand it.

I want to know how Ben is reacting to all this.

[autumnh]

Love the Young Turks.

 

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

The police report was not obtained illegally and almost all attorneys I saw interviewed stated this.  JB and Mechelle tried to say the police chief had an agenda agaisnt them because she did not shake Josh's hand(good for Her) and they seemed to imply, from my take, that she was a lesbian. People can correct me if I am wrong on this. The Smuggars will never win one cent if they sue.

 

My experience with smaller towns in the South is that you shouldn't go out of your way to make local law enforcement pissed off at you. You might find yourself with more traffic stops or minor infractions.

 

I meant to make this point in my previous post, but I got distracted by my desire for a sandwich.

I'm glad I'm not the only one here who sometimes gets distracted by food. Hehe.

[Jusagirlintheworld]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/to-get-the-josh-duggar-story-intouch-utilized-solid-investigative-journalism/2015/06/07/f4dabc4a-0bbe-11e5-95fd-d580f1c5d44e_story.html

"More requests and more documents followed, although Perel said the magazine hasn’t got everything it wanted. 'Do I have more information on the Duggars in general?' he said. 'Yes, I’d say we have some significant things coming out,' though he declined to say what."

[Sew Sumi]

The Post article pretty much confirms my guy feelings about how InTouch continues to handle this. I can't say I'm surprised. 

[SpottedCoachDog]

I was looking at the picture of Megyn Kelly at the Duggar dinner table and Jessa is standing behind Ben with her arms around him. Joy, Jana and Jinger are all at the table as well as three older boys (no John David). So one spouse was present for sure. And the other involved sisters were there, but for whatever reason only Jill and Jessa participated.

I'm curious what else InTouch may have coming out based on the last story linked above.

[andromeda331]

I'm curious what else InTouch may have coming out based on the last story linked above.

 

Me too.

[Jusagirlintheworld]

http://www.inquisitr.com/2153043/journalist-who-exposed-josh-duggar-i-dont-think-were-done/

"Not yet done with the Duggars? Is there more information already uncovered and yet to be released? Maybe so. According to 5 News, the second law enforcement organization to release information on Josh Duggar released over 50 pages. In Touch has released fewer than 40 pages total, between the first and second police report combined — and only 4 pages of that are from the second report.

The Duggar family moved fast to have Josh’s police report destroyed — perhaps in hopes of keeping whatever else may be in those 50 pages under wraps. They may have successfully prevented any more information from leaving the police record room — but it sounds like the stop may have come too late."

Edited June 8, 2015 by Jusagirlintheworld

[alegtostandon]

I am watching this part of the interview now.  Just my opinion, but I think these were the 2 girls chosen to speak out for the family because they are the biggest followers of their parents.  Some things that have caught my attention this far:

 

At the beginning of the interview, I thought the girls said they did not consider themselves to be "victims" due to Josh's young, foolish mistake that he made.  But yet, further into the interview, the girl who just got married (I never know which one is which) said '..the terrible thing about being a victim is you are helpless and now again, in this situation, we are helpless again.' (not an exact quote). 

 

I, too, want to know how they were able to give "their side of the situation" if they were not even aware it happened? 

 

When asked about the TLC show continuing, the girl who just had the baby said that the show was a window of opportunity God has allowed them to be on television. Excuse me?  Being on TV is now a God thing? 

 

Again, the girl who just had a baby said her fear is that other families who are going through something like this may be afraid to report it now that their story has come out.  The only reason this was made such a big deal out of is because their parents made the decision to make their lives public.  If they would have quietly lived their lives in private without cameras crews following their every step and preaching to the public about modesty, courtship, no kissing before marriage and side hugs,  no one would have even known who Josh Dugger was to care about making this public.

 

 

 

As many of others have said, where the hell is Josh during all of this.  Why is he not coming forward to talk? 

 

Megan Kelly getting very upset at this story being broken by In Touch....I am sorry, but your station was quick to report on this also when it broke.  Throw your anger back at yourselves.  You are the media also.  Your anger over victims maybe not moving forward on reporting a molestation because of "This Story", you are the ones who are bringing these victims on television to cry over this.  You did this interview for ratings only, not for healing.

[asuwur]

There is no aspect to any of this that isn't absolutely revolting.

 

That Josh did this is horrifying.

 

That his parents seemed far more invested in protecting him than the girls is icky to say the least.

 

That his (by all appearances) idiot parents opted to put the whole family on display for over a decade with this sort of serious skeleton and no full disclosure while being incredibly vocal about other people's life choices is mind boggling.

 

That  from what I can see Josh DOES appear to have turned his life around but now it's ruined which significantly impacts his innocent wife and children is truly sad. 

 

That the apparent and admitted survivors were outted by a very poorly redacted and questionably released police report and had the rug pulled out from them just as they were getting to be ringmasters of their own circuses is a case of almost triple victimization ( 1) the actual abuse 2) the iffy release of the documents identifying them and  3) possible financial instability because that release destroyed their plans). These girls can't catch a break and are raked repeatedly over the coals when they are first and foremost victims of their parents and I'm not even talking about the Josh thing. They figuratively and literally don't know any better and have had little opportunity to realize that they don't. That might change and I truly hope that it does.

 

And the absolute glee of many trumpeting the fall of the Duggars is every bit as nasty as many of the Duggar religious beliefs. This is both sad and hilarious because both sides feel exceedingly superior to one another with neither having any compassion/understanding/empathy for the other.

Edited June 8, 2015 by asuwur

[Jellybeans]

 

And the absolute glee of many trumpeting the fall of the Duggars is every bit as nasty as many of the Duggar religious beliefs. This is both sad and hilarious because both sides feel exceedingly superior to one another with neither having any compassion/understanding/empathy for the other.

Your entire post was well thought out and I agree with you. Especially the last paragraph.

[CofCinci]

And the absolute glee of many trumpeting the fall of the Duggars is every bit as nasty as many of the Duggar religious beliefs. This is both sad and hilarious because both sides feel exceedingly superior to one another with neither having any compassion/understanding/empathy for the other.

One of the markers of the human experience is the ability to process multiple thoughts/emotions simultaneously, even conflicting feelings. I do take glee in their downfall because this family has advocated for many groups to lose their rights and personal freedoms. At the same time, I feel heartbroken for the victims. Hell, I even have empathy for Josh because he was failed by his parents. They could have entered him into an evidence-based psychotherapy with licensed mental health professionals. Instead they most likely beat him with a rod and sent him to renovate an old Hobby Lobby. Yeah, I'm "nasty". Oh well.

[asuwur]

One of the markers of the human experience is the ability to process multiple thoughts/emotions simultaneously, even conflicting feelings. I do take glee in their downfall because this family has advocated for many groups to lose their rights and personal freedoms. At the same time, I feel heartbroken for the victims. Hell, I even have empathy for Josh because he was failed by his parents. They could have entered him into an evidence-based psychotherapy with licensed mental health professionals. Instead they most likely beat him with a rod and sent him to renovate an old Hobby Lobby. Yeah, I'm "nasty". Oh well.

That's not what I'm talking about...There are people just delighting is this without once voicing any sort of concern for the innocents involved in this hot steaming mess.

[Jellybeans]

I used to be that way but then something very life-shattering happened to me..and I can't really be that way any more.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Jellybeans

[strawberry4]

I have been a long time lurker and had a chance to re-watch the interview from last week and wanted to comment.  This is what I don't understand:  Jill and Jessa kept stating that it wasn't a big deal, happened with clothes on, was only for a few seconds and this wasn't a big deal basically.  But under the next breath they were stating they were victims, had to learn to trust Josh again and even the tears flowed that their story was being released.  Their stories were SO inconsistent and did not make sense.  The parents said this was the darkest time of their life, however it was "minor and only for a few seconds". Which is it?

 

I can't figure out if they really believe this crap or if they were putting on an act to save their reality show.  I can't help but think the tears Jill shed were the true feelings of how painful this has been for her.  I actually believe this report should not have been released. I feel for the girls that their story has been told without their consent.  I DO believe this was more painful than they are sharing.  

 

I would have more respect for the family if Josh spoke and he spoke alone. How selfish to have those girls speak while he hides.  HE caused them this hurt...he needs to face the piper instead of having daddy fix his problems like he did years ago.  

[Julia]

The thing is, I firmly believe this goes back to the parents, because if they had sought appropriate treatment, they not only would have possibly saved their daughters more abuse, the matter would have been closed and the records sealed, and there would have been no reason for the police or the sheriff's department to investigate anything. Hell, maybe Josh would have even gotten some help.

I'm not going to pretend that I think well of this family or the impact they've tried to have on society, but since I'm a human being, I don't actually feel glee when children are molested. Frankly, one of the most disturbing things about following this story has been the number of times I've read, casually, as though it was an understood thing, that given my political and cultural leanings I (or at least people like me) clearly do, and people like me are the reason these girls are suffering.

I'm a fat old hippie-wife-and-mother who doesn't believe in cruelty to freaking chickens, for crying out loud, and if some part of this is that the parents of these children think I'm more dangerous than having their daughters preyed on and their son descend into being a predator, and there are people out there (not politicians and political operatives, but actual people) who agree with that, our discourse is more broken than I thought. And I'm very frightened for our kids.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Julia

[Happyfatchick]

I’m just going to copy and paste what I wrote in the “Part 1” thread:

 

Except the Duggars are using this center stage platform to minimize the abuse and harm done. "It was just over the clothes, really! Only for a few seconds! And the girls were mostly asleep!" And that is such a socially irresponsible thing to promote. If the Duggar girls themselves feel like no lasting harm was done due to how "mild" the abuse was, more power to them as individuals - and I mean that, because obviously not having lasting harm is preferable - but there is a difference between saying that it's something that you've personally moved on from, and that you still love your parents and brother, and anybody who doesn't like it can go choke on a fig leaf, and completely minimizing/handwaving the abuse because hey, the girls were asleep and it was over the clothes, which sends the message that it ain't no big thing in general, and that's just a messed up thing to say. Just because a victim isn't aware of what's going on at the time doesn't mean that it can't leave scars.

My own experience with molestation was similar to the Duggars' in that it was for the most part "mild over-the-clothes touching" and honestly, if I were younger and an impressionable Duggar fan, I wouldn't have told a soul because the girls had just reinforced to me how it was no big deal and I was silly for having any lingering issues from it. 

 

Why shouldn’t the media have blown this story up? And I think it’s a bit of a misleading understatement to say that they were simply outspoken and that's all there was to it. Someone like Phil Robertson (of Duck Dynasty) is outspoken about his bigotry, but as far as I know, he isn’t actively working to strip LGBT people of their civil rights. By contrast, at the time the Duggar scandal came out, Josh was hatemongering for a group that demonized the LGBT population as sick perverted pedophiles; another FRC spokesman wanted homosexuality to be criminalized. And Michelle successfully managed to defeat an anti-discrimination ordinance in Fayetteville by likening all transgender people to child molesters. So yeah, people were resentful, and for good reason. You had the Duggars actively stumping to marginalize an already persecuted population under the guise of "traditional family values" and it turned out that their own traditional family values were bullshit. Imagine that if a news story had come out about an LGBT couple and their family dealing with the same issue. Do we think that Josh as spokesman for FRC Action wouldn't have jumped on that? 

 

Sorry, Duggars, as you sow, so shall you reap.

.

CLAPPING CLAPPING CLAPPING, you NAILED IT!!!!!

He has the perfect too many teeth smile for it, so yes, I can imagine it.  I can also imagine me "accidentally" ramming him with a cart repeatedly.  I'll ask his forgiveness, confess my wrongs, then do it again.

Oh good Lord, I laughed so hard, I woke the dog up!!! I LOOOOOVE it when I'm reading along, trying to absorb other people's feelings and get totally blindsided by snark. Hilarious!!!

[CherryAmes]

And the absolute glee of many trumpeting the fall of the Duggars is every bit as nasty as many of the Duggar religious beliefs.

 

I guess I've been lucky as I haven't encountered any of this.  Most of the 'glee' I've seen is that the Duggars may be going off TV and will not have a public forum to push their own sad little version of what a good Christian life is supposed to be.  But no one that I've read or seen or talked to personally is gleeful that they have been brought down for the reason that they have.  Far from it really - I've heard nothing but sympathy for the victims for instance.

[asuwur]

I agree. It goes back to the parents. And because of their mishandling of everything related to this situation (and everything else), these children are now adults who are absolutely not equipped to deal with the real big bad world. They don't have any clue how to function in society and how to accept that all kinds of people are going to cross their path and that almost every single one of them are going to be fundamentally good people who just don't fit in the Gothard box they themselves were crammed into.

 

I'm not saying there isn't irony to how this all happened and I'm not saying that people who are satisfied that their moment in the sun is over are wrong or evil. I was commenting upon people who relish that something bad happened to the Duggars with no regard to the damage that was done to the victims because they felt the ends justified the means....and there are a LOT of those people out there.

Edited June 8, 2015 by asuwur

[Morgalisa]

I'm thinking about when Megyn asked Jill if there were anymore secrets and Jill said no. I thought it was an odd question at the time. But now with the news that there might be more information released, I'm feeling really nervous for the girls.

[andromeda331]

I'm thinking about when Megyn asked Jill if there were anymore secrets and Jill said no. I thought it was an odd question at the time.

 

 I was surprised that Megyn was allowed to ask that question at the time and that Jill answered it. I didn't think Intouch had more stuff. I was thinking how with all the people who knew what happened, the elders and other people in the church. Its big risk to answer that question and assume no one else is going to say anything. 

[zenme]

I just find it almost impossibly coincidental that they all slept so deeply with someone touching them. Of course, they did share beds so maybe it wasn't unusual for them? I.don't know.

 

Yes.  Very coincidental.  All of the sleeping victims must've been very hard sleepers.  Impossible? No, but improbable. 

[WedgeOfSpite]

 

I was commenting upon people who relish that something bad happened to the Duggars with no regard to the damage that was done to the victims because they felt the ends justified the means....and there are a LOT of those people out there.

I haven't seen anyone who is happy that five girls were molested. I sure everyone wishes it had never happened. I think many people wish what I wish, that this terrible family was never given a platform to spout their hateful lifestyle choices in the first place. I feel badly those women had their molestation brought to light of so many people, but that would never have happened if their father wasn't such a greedy jackass, who also wanted to use this TV as a "ministry"  of hateful things. 

 

Do I feel badly for these women having to do damage control in this interview, and spout the company line? Yep, feel badly for that, too. But I don't feel badly that the Duggars as a brand (which they themselves spent years making, and getting rich from) is being called out for the gigantic hypocritical crap it is. I love the light that is being shown on their creepy Gothard ways. I know Jill and Jessa say that except for the means media! they're totally fine from the thing that wasn't even that bad! and forgiveness! and that's their choice. Fine. But I think they could still benefit from some real therapy, and having some validation. So as much as they don't claim to need it, I want that for them. I think most people want nothing, but the best for them personally, as survivors/victims/whatever term they choose to use. Even though I personally am even less okay with how their views on things like LGBTQA still = pedophiles, hasn't changed. 

 

As long as none of them get TV shows going forward, I'll do nothing, but wish the best for them in the obscurity I want them back in. 

Edited June 8, 2015 by WedgeOfSpite

[alegtostandon]

One of the statements one of the girls made was how people who watch their show feel that they know them personally, so when they meet a 'fan' on the streets, the fan will say "Hey Jill, how's (insert any other "J" name here)?".  The girl said that they have no idea who these people are or anything about their lives.  I think what they were trying to get across was that they would not say to the fan "Oh, and by the way, when I was 14, Josh touched my private parts while I was asleep".  Anyone who knows anything about reality TV should know that if there is any deep, dark secret, it is going to come out.  From what I have seen on some of the reality TV shows I watch, the family is doomed.  Look at shows like  John & Kate & their brood, the other couple with 6 kids who ended up divorcing, Hulk Hogan & his wife divorcing, the little family with the dad named Matt, divorcing, the Honey Boo Boo family, the Kartrashians & all of their issues, this is just a few.  Why did the Duggar's think they were exempt to any of this?  Yes, they lasted a few seasons longer than many of them did, but if there was something they were keeping from the public, it was bound to come out.  Just because "they" forgave Josh does not mean it did not happen.

 

The girls tried to excuse Josh by saying, just as the parents did, that they know of families who have had a lot worse done.  I know someone whose 14 year old just got caught shoplifting.  Guess I should tell her that things are all ok, because there are people who rob banks, so shoplifting is not that bad. 

 

Also, when the girls kept saying about the huge changes they saw in Josh when he returned from 'work camp', I wonder what kind of changes. 

[ChocolateAddict]

I'm sure that much of this has been said before but just my 2c. 

1. Jill and Jessa were put there to show how their girls have flourished and are now married with kids/pregnant.  Look how well they have done!  Look how the "inappropriate touching" has had no impact on their lives!  Look at our successful parenting! The fact that neither has a real education and one is married to an unemployed 20 year old is besides the point. And the lack of a proper education showed through, neither were comfortable using legal terms and both were umming and using "like" a lot.  For two girls who have spent plenty of time waffling on about modesty standards and weddings, they certainly looked out of place in a real interview. 

2. The fact that they "didn't know" is, in my mind, BS.  If we take that at face value, it shows that the Duggar children had not been taught about safety and their own bodies, e.g., no one should be touching you under your shirt or pants unless it is a doctor and Mummy or Daddy are there.  At least one survivor was awake and in my completely unqualified opinion, I find it hard to believe that the others slept through the whole thing.  Maybe the 5th one did but unless they were all taking Mechelle's meds at night, that is a bit difficult to believe

3. I completely accept that the girls feel violated by having their names splashed across the front page of a magazine announcing that they were victims of molestation.  At the same time, no one would give a damn if they weren't on TV.  If they were a random family, they wouldn't be trending on Twitter or Facebook.  Their parents, in full knowledge of this incident, chose to put their family on TV.  InTouch did not hold a gun to their heads and insist that they present themselves as models of Christian life, that was Boob and Mechelle's decision.  And as for the "porn" comment?  TLC doesn't exactly have an impeccable track record 'Sex sent me to the ER' among others.  

4. I call BS on the "we are just a family on TV" comment.  You are a family that relies on being on TV, you are a family that has profited from being on TV and you are a family that is famous for being on TV.  And you have owned the label of "reality stars", it is on every homeschooling conference flyer that the Duggar's are stars of a reality show.  So don't now try and convince us that you are anything but a TV family.  

At the same time, I don't want this to ruin the Duggar's as a family.  I would hate to think that this becomes a source of resentment and bitterness because they (hopefully!) lose their income with their TV show.  I want them to do some serious soul-searching and for this to be a reality check but I think I am living in hope, hahaha.  

Anyway, most of the interview made my blood boil and I'm glad I can vent here!  

[Darknight]

One of the statements one of the girls made was how people who watch their show feel that they know them personally, so when they meet a 'fan' on the streets, the fan will say "Hey Jill, how's (insert any other "J" name here)?". The girl said that they have no idea who these people are or anything about their lives. I think what they were trying to get across was that they would not say to the fan "Oh, and by the way, when I was 14, Josh touched my private parts while I was asleep". Anyone who knows anything about reality TV should know that if there is any deep, dark secret, it is going to come out. From what I have seen on some of the reality TV shows I watch, the family is doomed. Look at shows like John & Kate & their brood, the other couple with 6 kids who ended up divorcing, Hulk Hogan & his wife divorcing, the little family with the dad named Matt, divorcing, the Honey Boo Boo family, the Kartrashians & all of their issues, this is just a few. Why did the Duggar's think they were exempt to any of this? Yes, they lasted a few seasons longer than many of them did, but if there was something they were keeping from the public, it was bound to come out. Just because "they" forgave Josh does not mean it did not happen.

The girls tried to excuse Josh by saying, just as the parents did, that they know of families who have had a lot worse done. I know someone whose 14 year old just got caught shoplifting. Guess I should tell her that things are all ok, because there are people who rob banks, so shoplifting is not that bad.

Also, when the girls kept saying about the huge changes they saw in Josh when he returned from 'work camp', I wonder what kind of changes.

Which is why if you have a past you should be up front or don't go on tv at all. Reporters love a good story. In touch is probably making $$$ right now. Plus the Duggars live in a small town where people did know. Look at how dirty politics can get.

[Darknight]

I think in a lot of christian communities mental illness isn't taken seriously. I read one thumper who said the bible and church is the best therapy. Shrinks are ungodly and turn you away from god. Ugh! The duggars tried so hard to suppress every emotion in their kids. I don't understand how J'chelle could even think about having more kids after dealing with a situation like this. Who has time to fuck when your son is touching your daughters. He obviously had issues. Your daughters needed protection. It's sad to know this is very common in cults like this. Which is why JB said this was common and Jill said 2/3 of families go through this. If the girls moved on good for them, but they shouldn't downplay the abuse. That's like Obama telling everyone it's okay to smoke crack, it's just crack. I really hope thumpers don't take their advise. That's dangerous.

It's time for Jill and Jessa to raise their kids and grow apart from reality tv.

[becca3891]

Thank you for clarifying. It is really bizarre that fans would create pages and post to them as if they were them. Then again, their die hard fans are....

You're welcome! And now I'm not even sure that "official" Facebook page is real. I don't think it is, even though it has 140,000 followers. The real Jill would not still be calling herself Jill Duggar. I think the person who runs the page is just stealing everything from Jill's Instagram.

 

I'm not convinced they actually wanted to tell their side of the story. I'm not convinced it was voluntary. I feel for them. I'm happy to call them "survivors" rather than "victims," but I don't they it is terrible to have doubts about the stories they told. 

My two cents regarding "survivors" versus "victims." Avoiding the word victim, to me, makes no sense. The word simply means you have had something happen to you beyond your control. The word does not mean that you are a victim for your entire life, but in that moment, yes, you were and that is not something to deny or be ashamed of. Why do people think survivor is a better choice? Survivor means only that you didn't die. Not saying it's a terrible word choice but it doesn't really make a lot of sense in the context of sexual abuse, when death usually isn't the goal. So, I use the word victim because to me it is a factual word, the best and most common way to identify someone who's been abused.

 

Did anyone else notice that when Boob and Mechelle talked about how they told their children about good touch and wrong touch, that they made no mention of teaching their children NOT to go touch others wrongly? That was troubling to me.

[SpottedCoachDog]

I agree. It goes back to the parents. And because of their mishandling of everything related to this situation (and everything else), these children are now adults who are absolutely not equipped to deal with the real big bad world. They don't have any clue how to function in society and how to accept that all kinds of people are going to cross their path and that almost every single one of them are going to be fundamentally good people who just don't fit in the Gothard box they themselves were crammed into.

I'm not saying there isn't irony to how this all happened and I'm not saying that people who are satisfied that their moment in the sun is over are wrong or evil. I was commenting upon people who relish that something bad happened to the Duggars with no regard to the damage that was done to the victims because they felt the ends justified the means....and there are a LOT of those people out there.

First of all, my heart breaks for the girls. They can claim no big deal, all is forgiven. But it is painfully obvious their trauma and suffering was marginalized to protect their scummy brother. For that reason....I'll admit to a certain sense of, I guess it's satisfaction, that Jim Bob, Michelle and Josh are watching their house of cards tumble down.

And the best part? All the time and effort they put into denying LBTG rights and it's a gay magazine editor with an assist from a gay woman that are bringing them down. They've branded these people as pedophiles and oh the irony. You know, I personally think that religions that subjugate women and turn them into broodmares then proactively ensure their litters of children have no discernible life skills should be against the law. But I'm not campaigning for it. It's the hypocrisy that's making people enjoy this. And yes, the girls have in a horrible way become "collateral damage" (I hate that phrase). The girls are paying far more for the sins of their parents and brother now. My only hope it that the lil corner of Hell that awaits those three in the afterlife is hot enough to make them wish for Michelle's old bikini.

[Twopper]

 

But I don't feel badly that the Duggars as a brand (which they themselves spent years making, and getting rich from) is being called out for the gigantic hypocritical crap it is. I love the light that is being shown on their creepy Gothard ways. 

 

I thought that at first--that this would expose the connection between Gothard and the Duggars, but I don't think it has done so. People posting here know about it, but the people I know who are being exposed to the Duggars for the first time don't get it and tend to think that the Duggars are just conservative Christians; they are pretty sure they aren't conservative Catholic Christians, but many seem to think because  it is a large conservative family the Duggars are Mormon.  But most seem to think they are normal Southern Baptists.  I think the clothing makes people think Mormon or some type of Pentecostal. But while most found Ma and Pa creeepy, they just don't know anything about Gothard so they don't make the connection.  I wish the connection had been made clear.

[GEML]

The thing about Gothardism (and most cults) is that they really have to be lived or experienced even second hand to really understand just why they are so different. Because there are simply so many wacky rules, the human brain fixes on one or two and either goes, "That's crazy!" (Often this is done by someone who isn't religious at all, and the irony is many people don't think that particular rule is that odd...) or people hear a few rules and go "that's weird" but it's over something trivial (like hair styles) that sounds creepy, but not abusive.

Human brains just aren't equipped to take in that type of bizarre irrational abuse - which is why cults flourish and those talking about them can sound crazier than those in them.

[Churchhoney]

 

I would have more respect for the family if Josh spoke and he spoke alone. How selfish to have those girls speak while he hides.  HE caused them this hurt...he needs to face the piper instead of having daddy fix his problems like he did years ago. 

 

I sort of think that this shows the fundamental flaw in the Duggars' child-rearing approach. The whole point of Gothard/Pearl-esque/etc child training is that the kids are given no space to use their own wills (those are to be broken) or, as an essential corollary to that, to use their own minds to figure out their own courses of action or determine whether anything is a good idea or not. They're trained, conditioned -- literally had their brains wired -- to interpose nothing between the parent's order and the kid's action. Ergo, those kids are so tightly controlled and so tightly bound to their parents -- especially the older ones, who've been longer exposed to Duggardom and were trained before their parents got tired -- that they've been given as little chance as possible to view themselves as agents in their own right. (The littler ones will have a different set of problems because they are being raised in a combination of massive control-freakness and massive neglect, I would bet.)

 

Anyway, the training that makes the kid a parents' push-button robot might appear to work as long as nothing important comes up that the kid really ought to take responsibility for and handle on its own. They're "trained" to act as the parents would, so they do, and presumably that's in a godly manner, in this family. But ... when something significant that calls for a sense of personal responsibility and reflection does come up, I think it's very likely that a kid trained in this system simply won't take responsibility. They weren't raised to gradually think more for themselves and take on more agency and freedom as they grew older. So they have virtually no practice in doing that. Ergo, Josh. (Goes double, or triple, when you're asking somebody to take responsibility for something that would be an incredibly painful and terrifying thing to take responsibility for in any case. Asking it here -- which we all would really like to do; I know that I would -- is like asking him to go from zero to Mach 7 in 60 seconds, I expect.)

[NextIteration]

Minimizing is common with victims no matter how you were raised. 

 

I think this is a defense mechanism in any type of abuse.  Unfortunately, it's generally easy to look around and see someone that was been more deeply abused.  The healthy thing to do is to remember that things like this are not competitions, and they all require processing trauma.

 

Cenk playing good cop, I sure wish he still had a television show!