S07.E08: The Cavi-Art Of War

[Sun-Bun]

Something is definitely missing with Bethenny on the show now. I thought rich Bethenny would be interesting. The rich Bethenny we've seen so far? Meh, not so much.

She is definitely living proof that money does NOT indeed buy happiness---for years she ruthlessly chased after her idea of the American Dream, pursuing and plotting her empire until she finally did "have it all", and yet here she is back at square one yet again...but at least she seems to have found some semblance of contentment with her daughter. It still makes me wonder if she'd appreciate her daughter as much if she couldn't afford nannies and the means necessary to raise a child well in Manhattan though.

Bethenny just strikes me as one of those women who can't be happy period---her childhood definitely seemed to fuck her up far more than she ever let on in the early pre-Skinnygirl Success seasons of RW.

I'll never get sick of episodes that involve scenes filmed in Carole's fabulous apartment; that place is so chic and funky indeed. But yeah, her taste in decor is definitely way more sophisticated than friggin' CB2, of all the random locations...

[EtheltoTillie]

I could have lived without the CB2 ad in the middle of the show, because none of us think Beth or Carole would really shop there?!? And Carole is more comfortable with this guy she has known a minute than the 3 year relationship? That's why they call it the honeymoon period, you don't know enough about him to be annoyed, and you are both still trying to impress each other.

The entire Carole runs for the board was fake, right? Maybe they do things differently in NYC, but where I live condo/co-op boards are elected at the unit owner annual meeting. You don't sit around your apt waiting for a call.

Ramona starting shit at her dear friend's birthday party? Not much changes, including deflecting her own negative feelings onto others.

Why was Sonja on the cover of that magazine? I was just checking her website, still nothing immediately available. Then I compared the diamond prices to BlueNile.com, something is off. Her prices are too good - I did find where she says all the diamonds are G-H color and VS2-s2 quality. She doesn't mention the quality of the cut, but the prices just seem too good.

It's the same in NYC, but sometimes it takes a long time to count the ballots, so people have left the meeting and are notified later. Here, however, I think it was all staged. I can't imagine any board would have allowed filming at the meeting. Most of the time contestants run unopposed, as not enough people want to serve on the board. Every few years there's a contentious election when some issue generates a throw the bums out feeling. Then you see group meetings of opposition candidates gathering secretly in someone's apartment. But no campaign strategists and posters. Edited May 27, 2015 by GussieK

[ottergirl]

Bethenny's new new excuse to not wanting be around the women is "I have to spend time with Bryn." Im sorry but didnt she sign up for reality tv like everyone else and collecting a huge paycheck, make time. I get shes going through a messy divorce but if shes all about putting her child first and shes not in financial woes for money why sign up for reality tv? Stay home and be with your child. I dunno Im just over her excuses why she wont get to know these women and her attitude crass at times. Even Bravo gave her an assist tonight with Sonja being on the cover of that Latino magazine and she made a shady comment about it. Then when they cut to show her photos the producers allowed Beth to do a voiceover to apologize in advance. Im just over Bravo trying to force viewers to fall in love with her. If the love is gone it's gone.

 

At this point, I'm just kind of resigned and sad about the season.  The editing to make Bethenny sympathetic has become so obvious and heavy handed that I just can't enjoy the show.  Forget the very very obvious "Scenes With A Therapist" in which we get to watch Bethenny make excuses for her rotten behavior based on having been abused as a child.  There's all these other things, too, more subtle - one way the editors control the narrative is which housewife gets a talking head in a confrontation scene.  Whenever there is a confrontation scene with Bethenny and Heather, lately, the talking heads are ONLY from Bethenny's perspective.  So last night, when Heather and Bethenny were interacting, ONLY Bethenny explained the conversation - so it was all from her point of view.  Same with all of Bethenny's interactions with the women.  Bethenny fights with Sonja?  Only Bethenny narrates.  Bethenny fights with Heather?  Only Bethenny narrates.  Bethenny dismisses Kristen?  Only Bethenny narrates.

 

The last time I can remember any of the other women getting to narrate their negative opinion of Bethenny was very early in the season when Bethenny pretended to "sleep" at lunch, and Heather said, in a talking head narration, "What a bitch."  Since then - they don't even get a voice, literally.  It's all the Bethenny story, all told from the Bethenny POV.  The only time anyone gets a comment is when it's framed as such a negative as to make us like Bethenny more, like Kristen last week. 

 

And as for Heather, I'm just sad.  Since the first minute she showed up, Heather has been the only person on Housewives who I ever related to - who I thought I could really know and like in real life.  I'm not in fashion and I'm not a rich CEO, but her general attitude and persona seemed familiar to me.  I also think she brought a real authenticity to the show; she is not perfect (bossy, too quick to shout and curse), but I liked her.  I don't know why Andy and team are throwing her under the bus this season.  She doesn't get her own scenes, whatever parties she's throwing off camera aren't making it onto the show, and the ONLY time she gets to speak on camera is when she's saying something negative.  (The only other scenes she has had have been her friendship with Carole, and I note that now Bethenny is bonding with Carole, so I guess Heather won't get those scenes anymore either.  It's very obvious that Andy really wants us to see the Carole/Bethenny friendship as proof that Bethenny is not a vicious b--- to all the women.  He keeps talking up the Carole/Bethenny friendship, and also talking up the Heather/Bethenny rift.)

 

The whole narrative - or lack thereof - is creating an unlikable impression for Heather, and I don't know why, except to make sure, once again, that we side with Bethenny.  I can see why Andy's doing it. He thinks Bethenny will save the show, but only if we like her; he invested a million dollars and his own ego in that bet, and he's not going to do anything to risk it.  But as a result, the show has just become way too false to me.  When the narrative is so clearly rigged and manipulated to elicit a particular response, it is not enjoyable to me, especially when the response they want from me (yay Bethenny!  poor Bethenny! boo Heather!) is antithetical to how I feel, and so one sided.

 

Oh well.  It's just a TV show. Maybe this is a sign that I should invest my energy somewhere more worthy, because waiting for authenticity or truth from Andy is unlikely to turn out well for me.

[EtheltoTillie]

At this point, I'm just kind of resigned and sad about the season.  The editing to make Bethenny sympathetic has become so obvious and heavy handed that I just can't enjoy the show.  Forget the very very obvious "Scenes With A Therapist" in which we get to watch Bethenny make excuses for her rotten behavior based on having been abused as a child.  There's all these other things, too, more subtle - one way the editors control the narrative is which housewife gets a talking head in a confrontation scene.  Whenever there is a confrontation scene with Bethenny and Heather, lately, the talking heads are ONLY from Bethenny's perspective.  So last night, when Heather and Bethenny were interacting, ONLY Bethenny explained the conversation - so it was all from her point of view.  Same with all of Bethenny's interactions with the women.  Bethenny fights with Sonja?  Only Bethenny narrates.  Bethenny fights with Heather?  Only Bethenny narrates.  Bethenny dismisses Kristen?  Only Bethenny narrates.

 

The last time I can remember any of the other women getting to narrate their negative opinion of Bethenny was very early in the season when Bethenny pretended to "sleep" at lunch, and Heather said, in a talking head narration, "What a bitch."  Since then - they don't even get a voice, literally.  It's all the Bethenny story, all told from the Bethenny POV.  The only time anyone gets a comment is when it's framed as such a negative as to make us like Bethenny more, like Kristen last week. 

 

And as for Heather, I'm just sad.  Since the first minute she showed up, Heather has been the only person on Housewives who I ever related to - who I thought I could really know and like in real life.  I'm not in fashion and I'm not a rich CEO, but her general attitude and persona seemed familiar to me.  I also think she brought a real authenticity to the show; she is not perfect (bossy, too quick to shout and curse), but I liked her.  I don't know why Andy and team are throwing her under the bus this season.  She doesn't get her own scenes, whatever parties she's throwing off camera aren't making it onto the show, and the ONLY time she gets to speak on camera is when she's saying something negative.  (The only other scenes she has had have been her friendship with Carole, and I note that now Bethenny is bonding with Carole, so I guess Heather won't get those scenes anymore either.  It's very obvious that Andy really wants us to see the Carole/Bethenny friendship as proof that Bethenny is not a vicious b--- to all the women.  He keeps talking up the Carole/Bethenny friendship, and also talking up the Heather/Bethenny rift.)

 

The whole narrative - or lack thereof - is creating an unlikable impression for Heather, and I don't know why, except to make sure, once again, that we side with Bethenny.  I can see why Andy's doing it. He thinks Bethenny will save the show, but only if we like her; he invested a million dollars and his own ego in that bet, and he's not going to do anything to risk it.  But as a result, the show has just become way too false to me.  When the narrative is so clearly rigged and manipulated to elicit a particular response, it is not enjoyable to me, especially when the response they want from me (yay Bethenny!  poor Bethenny! boo Heather!) is antithetical to how I feel, and so one sided.

 

Oh well.  It's just a TV show. Maybe this is a sign that I should invest my energy somewhere more worthy, because waiting for authenticity or truth from Andy is unlikely to turn out well for me.

I'm on the opposite side. I've just never liked Heather, although I can't really explain why. And if she calls someone Mama one more time I'll scream.

[Otherkate]

First of all, I would not be comfortable with someone just up and asking me about my custody situation (I'm going through something similar right now), but if they did, I would give a brief answer and then want to move on. The problem with what happened with Heather, in my eyes, was not even so much that she initially asked, it was her buttinsky reaction to everything. "Oh, that has to change." "Oh, I don't like that." Etc. Heather, shut up. These things are legal matters and you have to strive to find some ground to agree on and no it is NOT perfect and no you do NOT like the fact that you can't go get your kid at school when it is the Dad's day, but that is what you have agreed to. Someone coming in and placing judgement on it with their "Oh, that has to change" only succeeds at making the woman feel like a bad mother for not pushing to...what? Have 100% access to the child and in the process taking it away from the father? And, please, it's not like Bethenny WANTS to give Jason anything, I think we all know that. Keep your trap shut about it, Heather. SHUT. And, I LIKE Heather. This is my favorite franchise because I basically like all the women. Well, I don't really care about Kristen either way, but I don't dislike her.

 

I loved Carole and Bethenny in CB2 because I love that store and I like both of them. I could easily see them being friends, their personalities compliment each other very well. I'm definitely the Carole type and I have 2 of my own Bethenny types. It was lovely to hear Carole describe her relationship with her husband as "perfect."

 

Oh - almost forgot to comment on the board of directors vote. This made me laugh. It certainly seemed to be tongue in cheek what with the panel of experts, the 11th hour candidate, and "doorgate". Doorgate, btw, was one of Ramona's finest hours. Hilarious. The only thing better was the consultant who whispered "Oh my god!" when Carole told her story about the door.

 

Ramona. Yeesh. I felt sorry for Dorinda and for Ramona's date. Poor Dorinda. She really looked like she was going to cry by the end there. Terrible. So what if you don't like her boyfriend? Shut up about it.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Otherkate

[ottergirl]

I'm on the opposite side. I've just never liked Heather, although I can't really explain why. And if she calls someone Mama one more time I'll scream.

 

I love Heather, but I'm with you on the Mama thing.  Holla!!!

(I don't like that either.)

[ottergirl]

 

 

I loved Carole and Bethenny in CB2 because I love that store and I like both of them. I could easily see them being friends, their personalities compliment each other very well. I'm definitely the Carole type and I have 2 of my own Bethenny types. It was lovely to hear Carole describe her relationship with her husband as "perfect."

 

 

This scene made me sad because now that Carole can talk to Bethenny, Heather REALLY won't get any air time.  I'm sort of kidding, but not really.  The only scenes Heather has had this year have been with Carole.

 

I sound like a weird Heather fanatic, and I promise I'm not.  I like her a lot, she's not perfect, I totally get why she rubs some people the wrong way.  She has a strong personality.  What bums me out is that I feel like she's not getting a fair shake.  I think my justice button is getting pushed - the way it was at the Beverly Hills reunion, when Andy kept intervening to protect Brandi.  I feel like, yeah, Housewives is survival of the fittest, that's part of the fun of it, but the producers have to fight fair at least a LITTLE bit.  You have to show everyone's side at least a LITTLE bit, and then let the viewers choose who to like.   We're not getting that here, in my opinion, and it's at Heather's expense, and I'm all upset.  

 

Maybe some of Carole's political consultants can come help me figure it out, now that they've successfully gotten Cuomo into office and Carole onto her co-op board.  Or maybe I can "TAKE A XANAX" and "CALM DOWN" or maybe I should just "GO TO SLEEP!!!"

[Mozelle]

The whole narrative - or lack thereof - is creating an unlikable impression for Heather, and I don't know why, except to make sure, once again, that we side with Bethenny.  I can see why Andy's doing it. He thinks Bethenny will save the show, but only if we like her; he invested a million dollars and his own ego in that bet, and he's not going to do anything to risk it.  But as a result, the show has just become way too false to me.  When the narrative is so clearly rigged and manipulated to elicit a particular response, it is not enjoyable to me, especially when the response they want from me (yay Bethenny!  poor Bethenny! boo Heather!) is antithetical to how I feel, and so one sided.

I think that is what's happening. Because the season has filmed, the editing team can go back and craft this story that let's Bethenny off the hook since it's apparent during filming that she doesn't like Heather. I'm currently re-watching last night's ep as I get ready, and right after LuAnn's TH where she says that Carole has no kitchen, we come back to Heather and Bethenny mid-conversation.

 

Heather: So what is the visitation. So six days you don't have her?

Bethenny: No no no.

Heather: Oh, 'cause I thought that you said is, like, 'Six days I don't get to see her.' I'm like, that's not fair. You gotta fix that.

Bethenny's TH: I find it very personal for someone to ask you about your custody situation.

 

Heather repeats back to Bethenny what Bethenny said. Yet, that'll get glossed over as though, out of the blue, Heather initiated conversation about Bethenny's custody. Bethenny knows how to talk about herself apropos of nothing. I'm going to believe that she came into this scene announcing to everyone in her fast-talking and anxious way that she wasn't going to stay for long--"I can't stay. I can't stay. I'm leaving at 3:30. I can't stay long. I have to pick up my kid at 3:30. I don't get to see her, so this time is precious."--and Heather picked up on it. It seems, too, that Heather misunderstood whatever the six days that Bethenny mentioned (because where would Heather get six days in that conversation if not from Bethenny's mouth?) given that we come into the scene with Heather asking about six days.

 

This season is so painful to watch. I liked Bethenny so much in all her seasons on RHONY. I watched her spin-offs (minus the last season of the last spin-off). I'm still wary about Jason, but I think that she's being a right bitch to Heather under the guise of this divorce, which I gather is stressful. Yet, she manages to turn it off for the other women so she's capable. She simply doesn't want to when it comes to Heather.

[ryebread]

Not thinking Heather was being snarky or shady about Sonja and the Kmart comment.

 

I do.  Sonja was wearing an evening gown and Heather was aware of the price point.  Last time I checked, KMart didn't sell formalwear. Heather's a stealth bitch.  Or rather, she thinks she's stealth.

Edited May 27, 2015 by ryebread

[ghoulina]

I never know what to think about Carole. Is she serious about the stuff she does, or is she kind of poking fun at herself? Hiring "top political consultants" to help you run for the board of your apt building sounds really ridiculous, but if she's kind of in on the joke, well I might be able to appreciate that. I did like her scenes with Beth, though. I find them amusing together. I liked that they're both, "Nah, not gonna hug this out". My best friend has been in my life for over a decade and we're really not huggers. We've been there for each other through a lot of shit, but we're just not super touchy-feely people. I'm very physically affectionate with my immediate family, but that's about it. No, instead Carole brings her some linen from the store to wipe her eyes with. Hilarious! 

 

So, Sonja was on the cover of a Latino magazine. Interesting. And did I see Ross Gellar as part of her "team"???? Look, I think Sonja is probably just as crazy and delusional as Heather thinks she is, but Heather is just coming off as a bitch about it all. I get that the toaster oven fiasco pissed her off, but move on already. It's like she just gets this big sense of glee, anticipating Sonja failing. And that comes off so "mean girl" to me. If Aviva was there, she would have called Heather out for not being a well-wisher. In all seriousness, you can't reason with crazy. I think the best way to handle Sonja is congratulate her, smile, and move on. Why invest yourself so much in trying to figure out when her line is launching and where? Just let it go. 

 

I also didn't like how Heather assumed Ramona brought that guy to dinner because she was trying to prove something to the other girls about how she's moved on. Maybe Ramona just brought him because she enjoyed his company? 

 

Although, after seeing the Ramona-coaster in full effect last night, that dude probably wants to run for the hills. I was all, Damnit, Ramona. You were doing so well. But there you go, sticking your foot in your mouth again. First basically telling the girls that Dorinda is a better friend and they're fake. Niiiiice. And then you call Lu out for shit-talking John, when YOU have had plenty to say about John, and how people wouldn't want to sit next to him at a dinner table. Well, you're no prize yourself. Sit next to you and you might get a glass of wine, or just the glass, in your face. 

 

At least Dorinda was smart enough to figure out what was going on, and not falling for Ramona's innocent act. 

 

So last week I remarked that I thought it was indicative of how fucked up Beth is that she thinks her divorce is "the worst thing" she's ever been through, when you consider the shit she went through in her childhood. But hearing her talk about Brynn, and how this has been hard on her, and not wanting to let her down - I get it. I think the reason it's the worst thing ever, is because she KNOWS it's badly effecting her daughter. It's not about her. All the shit in her childhood badly effected HER, but in her mind, something hurting her daughter is much worse. Whether Beth is responsible for any of this that her daughter is going through is another matter, since I don't know enough about the custody battle and divorce, etc. But I do think, overall, Bethenny has a very selfless attitude about her daughter and is far more concerned about her feelings than her own. 

 

Shallow note - isn't it hilarious how Sonja walks down the sidewalk like it's a runway? With a jaunty little bounce and her lips pursed? Who is she trying to impress!?

[anonymiss]

It's natural for Bethenny to bristle at Heather since Heather was aggressive and insulting to Bethenny from their first meeting when she made a big deal out of LuAnn "creating" SkinnyGirl with Bethenny. She wouldn't drop it and insisted Bethenny "owes" LuAnn a new car, etc.

Edited May 27, 2015 by anonymiss

[imjagain]

I disagree with Lu. Ramona hasn't changed for the better, she is hurt and vulnerable, right now. The same ol'Ramona still lurks in there. She is a nasty rude woman who thinks she better than others. Why does she care about John. If Dorinda cares for him, back off.

Beth is tiresome. Sorry you had a horrible childhood, but shut up already. I don't care about your storyline. I might care if you really wanted to get better but you're Cleary using it to get sympathy.

She is so nasty to Heather. Yeah Heather shows sympathy for you and still have to be rude and nasty about it. I don't believe for a second that Heather out of the blue started "grilling" her about child custody issues. Yeah right, there's no way Beth would talk about herself.

[trimthatfat]

For whatever reason, Bethenny and Heather are not compatible. I do think Heather should refrain from talking about Bethenny's custody agreement. That isn't the kind of conversation I'd want to have with someone I barely know. I think Heather is trying to bond with Bethenny, but it's not natural and it's not working.

 

Sonja on the cover of a magazine for the Latin community...I can't. How on earth did she get on the cover? What was going on with that party? I got so much secondhand embarrassment.

 

Oh, Ramona, never change. Luann owned whatever she said about John, but Ramona refuses to own her part and is acting like Luann was the only one talking trash. Based on Dorinda's appearance on WWHL last week, I do think she now sees that Ramona is being snarky and catty about John.

Edited May 27, 2015 by trimthatfat

[ghoulina]

I do.  Sonja was wearing an gown and Heather was aware of the price point.  Last time I checked, KMart didn't sell formalwear. Heather's a stealth bitch.  Or rather, she thinks she is.

 

I totally thought it was dig. But then Heather tried to cover her tracks by saying K-mart was a perfectly fine store and it was the person who took offense that was really making a dig. 

[ryebread]

I don't know why Andy and team are throwing her under the bus this season.

 

Because this is what they do. Imo, Bravo ONLY hires women to be HWs who are either messed up or bitchy. I put Heather firmly in the latter category.  So Bravo edits her so that she's mostly likeable for her first couple seasons, and now it's time for them to show us why she was hired in the first place - her bitchiness.  This happens with all of them.

 

I can't think of one single housewife on any franchise who isn't messed up or bitchy. Bravo can polish the edges for a while but they know when the time is right to either table them or expose them because it's now time to polish some other turd.  (Bethenny, in this case)

 

The only one I can really think of who didn't seem like a bitch or very messy is the model agency owner in D.C.  But there ya go - she didn't have the qualities Bravo wants in their HWs, I can't even remember her name and the series was cancelled faster than you can say luxury lifestyle consultant. 

 

Dorinda is another that comes to mind as not being very messy or bitchy but we don't know her yet.  Just as Bravo wants.  She's liked.  For now.  I'll bet she falls firmly into the bitchy category before then end of her second season.

[imjagain]

Because this is what they do. Imo, Bravo ONLY hires women to be HWs who are either messed up or bitchy. I put Heather firmly in the latter category. So Bravo edits her so that she's mostly likeable for her first couple seasons, and now it's time for them to show us why she was hired in the first place - her bitchiness. This happens with all of them.

I can't think of one single housewife on any franchise who isn't messed up or bitchy. Bravo can polish the edges for a while but they know when the time is right to either table them or expose them because it's now time to polish some other turd. (Bethenny, in this case)

The only one I can really think of who didn't seem like a bitch or very messy is the model agency owner in D.C. But there ya go - she didn't have the qualities Bravo wants in their HWs, I can't even remember her name and the series was cancelled faster than you can say luxury lifestyle consultant.

Dorinda is another that comes to mind as not being very messy or bitchy but we don't know her yet. Just as Bravo wants. She's liked. For now. I'll bet she falls firmly into the bitchy category before then end of her second season.

Lydia from OC seemed very sweet and not bitchy. She left because she probably knew this kind of show wasn't for her.

I kind of liked that Kristen apologized to delusional Sonja. Imo, Kristen knows that Sonja is nuts, and is trying to be nice. Nobody will ever get through to Sonja, so pat her on the head and tell her she's pretty, say your sorry that you were "mean" to her and I'm sure all will be good.

[CrinkleCutCat]

I totally agree with you Ottergirl, about the way THs can skew the narrative. Bethenny is certainly getting to explain her point of view All. The. Time. I prefer a more balanced approach where we the viewers hear all points of view. That makes for a richer program.

Kinda liked Luanne's zingers this Ep. When she found out Carole's frozen pastries were three years old and Carole defended being honest about their age for the sake of transparency....Luanne said she wished they were opaque!

When John (finally) came back to the table, Luanne told Romana to move out of his chair and back to a chair next to her "so I can choke you myself" ha ha!

I somewhat respected the awkward agreeing NOT to hug despite the upset/emotions with Bethenny and Carole at the store. At least they own their weird awkwardness and lack of emotional empathy.

And... Carole actually still does have a kitchen post renovations. Such a teaser! She wasn't going to get rid of her kitchen! [sarcasm here].

Edited May 27, 2015 by CrinkleCutCat

[ryebread]

Shallow note - isn't it hilarious how Sonja walks down the sidewalk like it's a runway? With a jaunty little bounce and her lips pursed? Who is she trying to impress!?

 

Yes!  This is another example of how when we are bothered by a HW, most everything they do irritates us.  I noticed the exact same thing about Heather when she pranced into both Ramona's party and Carole's apartment.  HOLLA!  I'm here.  Let the party begin, mamas!  I know....this could be considered confidence, but almost everything she does makes me giddily irritated with her. Just keep being your yummie self, Heather, because I can't get enough.  And while we're being shallow (again?? :-)  Heather's hair looks terrible in her THs.

[ghoulina]

I kind of liked that Kristen apologized to delusional Sonja. Imo, Kristen knows that Sonja is nuts, and is trying to be nice. Nobody will ever get through to Sonja, so pat her on the head and tell her she's pretty, say your sorry that you were "mean" to her and I'm sure all will be good.

 

That's what I'm saying! We've seen people try to figure Sonja out, to reason with her, to help her. IT. DOES. NOT. WORK. So just smile and say, "Congrats, Sonja. this is lovely". And go about with your life.

[ryebread]

Lydia from OC seemed very sweet and not bitchy. She left because she probably knew this kind of show wasn't for her.

 

I agree. I forgot about Lydia.  And probably Joyce.  This is why they're now absent.  They didn't fit the mold.

 

Now Joyce, I think had she not been let go, we'd've seen more of the bitch that was underneath that beautiful, jazz handsy exterior. 

 

And speaking of hands - I noticed last night when Beth was interviewing Andy on WWHL, Andy talks with his hands.  Heather talks with her hands.  But Andy's hand talking is expressive.  Heather's hand talking always feels like she's admonishing the other HWs and the audience.

[SFoster21]

What do you figure it costs to have caviar and champagne at Petrossian for seven/eight people? I always think of Babette's Feast: "dinner for twelve at the Cafe Anglais costs ten thousand francs." Ah, paradise.

The rest is dross.

[Baltimore Betty]

John could not wait to "go to the men's room" after the caviar girl left and I am pretty sure that is where Ramona's date disappeared to as well!

 

And yes Ghoulina, Sonja had Ross Gellar working for her! 

The dress looked nice, could have used some jewelry with it though, I am guessing that is the on piece we will ever see in 3D.  The photos looked great, the camera likes Sonja.  Maybe the lack of Latino/a's influence in the room is because the magazine is meant for people who speak Latin, lol! 

 

Bethenny was really mean and snarky to her therapist, she is not enlightened enough that the Dr. has been on her side.  She is very lucky that she can be with her daughter whenever she wants to be, what if she was a single mom and had to go to work because if she didn't she would not get paid and actually miss out on a few things now and then, you know, like in real life.  I can only imagine the crying she would do then. 

 

I can relate to Ramona's issue with John, I have a good friend who married someone that NOBODY gets, even their real estate agent asked what the deal was but my friend is happy and that is what counts so we all shut up about it.  Ramona will never be that person who keeps her mouth shut and that is why we love watching her but she totally threw Lu under the bus, not good.  Luanne needs to remember she cannot talk to Ramona anything except the weather.

 

Carole is on her condo board, she reminded me of high school and the student government elections. 

 

Wasn't that caviar place the same as the one that Heather's husband did the caviar tasting with Carole?

 

 

[SFoster21]

I am constantly taken aback in that these "socialites" APPEAR so ignorant, uncouth, and "uneducated".

Yeah. One reason I dig Bethenny is that she has a command of grammar and a wide range of allusions (characterized by some as "outdated" --

not to me -- I find it appropriate as utilized) and vocabulary. Shit, she used the word "Equine" in a joke. On OC, they'd still be scratching their peroxided scalps over that. Peroxide rots the brain, I'm convinced.

[trimthatfat]

I can relate to Ramona's issue with John, I have a good friend who married someone that NOBODY gets, even their real estate agent asked what the deal was but my friend is happy and that is what counts so we all shut up about it.  Ramona will never be that person who keeps her mouth shut and that is why we love watching her but she totally threw Lu under the bus, not good.  Luanne needs to remember she cannot talk to Ramona anything except the weather.

 

My thing with Ramona is that her complaints about John seem really superficial. He's not abusive to Dorinda and she has repeatedly said that she is happy with him. From what I see, Ramona's issue is that John is a bit of a flirt who doesn't have the right connections or great wealth. That doesn't make him a bad person.

 

For as much as she gloated about her perfect marriage with Mario, I think she should sit down and mind her own business.

[ghoulina]

My thing with Ramona is that her complaints about John seem really superficial. He's not abusive to Dorinda and she has repeatedly said that she is happy with him. From what I see, Ramona's issue is that John is a bit of a flirt who doesn't have the right connections or great wealth. That doesn't make him a bad person.

 

I do think Ramona mentioned that the wealth thing made her suspect he was using Dorinda. But I do think there is also an air of snobbery about it. Personally, I might worry about my friend dating Dorinda. He has badly roving eyes and hands. But she's a grown-up, her life and her choice. 

[TheFinalRose]

I get the feeling Heather is the one that is expendable this season, at least in Andy's mind. As a viewer I'm not a big fan of Heather because she doesn't bring to the show any of the visual elements of NYC that I want to see: we don't see her home, or her family life. She's not bringing interesting connections into the show and despite his niceness, Jonathon doesn't really light up the screen, or act as a polarizing character like John the beefy dry cleaner does, or Mario the sleaze did, or Kristen's husband with his dickish-ness did. The most she offered up was a country home without air-conditioning. So it's time to use her as bait.

 

Can I just say how adorable I thought Dorinda looked at the caviar party?  Something about the lighting with her hair, IDK, I find her looks very intriguing. If I knew her in real life I would probably have a girl-crush on her and be just as perplexed as to why she lugs that version of a man around with her.  

 

I go back and forth with Carole but I thought her reaction to Bethenny crying in CB2 was awesome. They are not close friends, Carole's been through some stuff herself, so she doesn't really act like the sky is falling everytime someone gets sad. Now that was the kind of cool chick persona that I got a kick out of.  Plus that political consultant meeting was hilarious. I am sure she had to keep herself from busting out laughing the whole time.  

[imjagain]

Ramona is a snob. John doesn't fit into the type of men Ramona finds attractive. John and Mario imo don't seem that different, both flirty with other women both seem sweaty and kind of gross me out but hey I don't have to sleep with them. The problem is John is fat and Ramona is very superficial.

I don't really think Ramona thinks John will take advantage of Dorinda. If she knows Dorinda at all she know Dorinda is not some shrinking violet, that let's John run her.

Edited May 27, 2015 by imjagain

[Beden]

 

Beth totally came in with a preconceived notion of Heather.

Bethenny probably doesn't give a rats ass about Heather or any of the other cast mates.

 

The producers gives them all a script or season over-view for them to follow. This show has as much relationship to reality as I do to being a runway model.

[trimthatfat]

I do think Ramona mentioned that the wealth thing made her suspect he was using Dorinda. But I do think there is also an air of snobbery about it. Personally, I might worry about my friend dating Dorinda. He has badly roving eyes and hands. But she's a grown-up, her life and her choice. 

From what I can tell, John is doing more than alright for himself. If his income or zip code was an issue, Dorinda is a big girl who can handle that issue herself. Mario was no catch so I'm not sure why Ramona thinks she can trash her friend's man.

Edited May 27, 2015 by trimthatfat

[ghoulina]

From what I can tell, John is doing more than alright for himself. If his income or zip code was an issue, Dorinda is a big girl who can handle that issue herself. Mario was no catch so I'm not sure why Ramona thinks she can trash her friend's man.

 

Maybe that's part of it? Maybe because of what Ramona has been through, the illusion of her "perfect" marriage crumbling, she wants to try and find faults with other people's men?

Edited May 27, 2015 by ghoulina

[SCS]

I only saw about 5 minutes of her talk show, so I didn't really get it until I watched her tonight - she talks too much! I wanted to hear Andy's answers, but she just started talking over him. Constantly. Another pick-up - Amdy is totally enamored by her, and thinks her return to the show is the greatest thing in the world. And she does, too. Well I'm glad they're happy. Do viewers count?

Gotta throw a little shade here: in the brief clip of her audition tape did you notice how w i d e the part is in her hair? Looked at least 2 inches. That kind of hair loss is unusual in someone younger unless they suffer from root tension (weaves) or malnutrition.

[trimthatfat]

I go back and forth with Carole but I thought her reaction to Bethenny crying in CB2 was awesome. They are not close friends, Carole's been through some stuff herself, so she doesn't really act like the sky is falling everytime someone gets sad. Now that was the kind of cool chick persona that I got a kick out of.  Plus that political consultant meeting was hilarious. I am sure she had to keep herself from busting out laughing the whole time.  

I am no Carole fan, but she did earn 5% of my affections with this past episode. I appreciated when she said she wasn't a hugger and how uncomfortable she was when Bethenny broke down. That was a very real reaction. I was sitting next to a complete stranger at a party once who had a similar melt down and other than an awkward pat on the back and some rolled up bathroom tissue, I had no idea what else to offer her. So I really like that scene for some reason.

[SCS]

 

 

The only one I can really think of who didn't seem like a bitch or very messy is the model agency owner in D.C.  But there ya go - she didn't have the qualities Bravo wants in their HWs, I can't even remember her name and the series was cancelled faster than you can say luxury lifestyle consultant. 

 

Grimace the Grinch? (I keed!! It was Lynda.)

[SFoster21]

Maybe that's part of it? Maybe because of what Ramona has been through, the illusion of her "perfect" marriage crumbling, she wants to try and find faults with other people's men?

Ramona put the "un" in uncouth. She's always acted as though she's "better than." She still gets her period in her fifties! She's allergic to any housing not located in Manhattan! She's got private planes at her disposal!

How is Bethenny leaving Carole's party after the results were announced so terrible and unusual after Ramona's unceremonious leave taking from Heather's place?

Really don't see B as any worse than any of yhe others.

[quaintirene]

 

And I'm going to hell on wheels for this but her fucking scrunched up nose smile irritates the shit out of me.

Don't feel bad.  Or damned!  That scrunched-up nose thing is a Botox giveaway.  When you see one of these babes doing a scrunchy nose cute-little-bunny smile it's because it's the only way they can indicate amusement or happiness since the muscles around their mouths are pretty much immobile.

[Trooper York]

Talk about your bad edits. John is getting royally hosed.

First they mention cheating and flash to John's grinning mug. Then they bring in the caviar girl and position the camera cuts to make it look like he was drooling over her when they weren't in the same frame. Then the producers make him leave the table so they can talk about him. They wouldn't have done that if he was sitting there because he would have confronted them as he did when he was allowed back in the room. They made it look like he followed the girl out to hit on her when they had to get him out of the room. Ramona would have never brought it up because she is a bully but also a coward. Witness how she tried to bullshit John when he was back in the room.

I expect that from Satan Andy because he has a problem with ethnics be they Italian, Armenian or black. He will always set them up to be foolish at best or venal scumbags at worst.

Ultimately it is John's fault for being a fame whore. I just hope his personal reputation and business are not destroyed in the process. Big mistake filming buddy. Big mistake.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Trooper York

[poeticlicensed]

The only two howives I like on a consistent basis are Lu and Dorinda. They are just fun and funny. 

 

Ramona is 0-60 in two seconds and has no filter. Sometimes it's amusing to watch, mostly it just tires me out or pisses me off

 

Kristen - irrelevant

 

Heather - quickly becoming irrelevant

 

Carole - can be funny but I am so over her Carrie Bradshaw act

 

Sonja - She is entertaining with her delusion, but I'm just not into her "launch"

 

Beth - I run hot an cold. Sometimes her THs are hysterical. I cannot take her therapy sessions, her constant moaning about having to split time with her child and being "homeless". She needs to go back to being the greek chorus of the show. This isn't the Beth goes through a shitty divorce show. I am over it. 

[Trooper York]

At least I won't have to bash Carole for this episode. I mean she illustrated what a warm, caring, supportive and emotionally aware friend she can be when she went over and above when she comforted Bethenny.

 

Plus she is a great cook!

 

She shows hidden talents on almost every episode. What a gal!

[bichonblitz]

Bethenney on my TeeVee is very depressing.  She is never happy, fun or funny. All the money in the world is not going to change who she is, although I do believe this divorce has totally gutted her.  I guess there really is a lesson in being careful what you wish for. She always wanted wealth, a child and a handsome husband. She got it all. And now look at her. 

 

I am confused about her custody situation. Does she not have primary custody of Brynn or is it shared custody? I don't understand why she doesn't have Bryn the majority of the time, which would give Jason visitation every other week. If she lost that battle, I could see why she is falling apart at the seams. That's a big deal. However, it just solidifies my opinion that she is too fragile to be on this show right now, It's not enjoyable watching her at all. 

[mwell345]

 

Bethenny visits her therapist after reuniting with her stepfather.

 

That sentence right there - was all I needed to skip this one and continue watching Damages on Netflix. 

 

Haven't we had enough of Bethenny and her therapist?  It was a big chunk of her own show, now we get more?  I'm just not interested in Bethenny's rehashing of her childhood, and the countless other issues she seems to have.

[jennylauren123]

TheFinalRose: I did, too. Should we be ashamed?

 

The most exciting part of the episode was when I realized that Carole was heating up Trader Joe's Parmesan Pups for her election results party.  Those puppies are delicious!!!  I recognize the trademark light blue trim on the box.

 

And I also have a very old box (two years? three years?) in my freezer. Now I know they will be as good as new(ly frozen)!

Edited May 27, 2015 by jennylauren123

[FaithsMum]

I am confused about her custody situation. Does she not have primary custody of Brynn or is it shared custody? I don't understand why she doesn't have Bryn the majority of the time, which would give Jason visitation every other week.

I think she has shared custody. I'm not sure of the exact details but I think it's pretty much 50/50. On a personal level I feel bad for her. It's absolutely best thing for a kid to have time with both parents but it must be pretty shitty to send your kid(s) off to their other parent half of their life and feel as if you're missing out on them. I too would be devastated if I had to do the same with my kids.

Plus, for Bethenny, Bryn is the only person she has who is "hers" since she doesn't appear to associate with any extended family, even and she's an only child.

[ryebread]

I had to google a Maleficent tattoo.  My god, they exist.

 

[izabella]

Carole - can be funny but I am so over her Carrie Bradshaw act

 

What got me this episode was her TH after the board election, "I haven't won anything since my fifth grade basketball trophy!"

 

Is that right?  What about your Emmys and your Peabody?  Stop playing flighty and dumb!!

[missyb]

Two real moments of the episode for me. Carole with Bethenny and I really liked Kristens awe at what Sonja accomplished. I liked her apology. Not relevant whether Sonja will go anywhere or not, but Kristen apologizing for not believing in her and praising what Sonja had done was very real to me.

[Trooper York]

Well the Emmys and the Peabody was really for the work of her ghost writers so they don't count.

At least that is the word on the street.

[archer1267]

Is International Luxury Lifestyle some kind of codeword or mantra Sonja uses to communicate with Bethenny?

 

 

I already have forgotten the names of the two guys who are "executives" with Sonja Morgan's Vanderlay Industries, but I remember looking at their LinkedIn profiles, and both contained such buzzy phrases as "international luxury lifestyle."

 

These women are so shallow that if John looked like a Jacques, or Mario, they wouldn't care about him dating Dorinda. (And I like Dorinda, but this isn't exactly a case of a very mismatched Paulina Porizkova dating Ric Ocasek, if you get my drift.) I don't remember anyone saying a word about a much-younger man going after a freshly-divorced Countess. It's the Upper East Side, so it's a sin to be anything less than svelte and to show perspiration.

 

And I think Ramona's way of starting a sentence with "in all sincerity" needs to be a drinking game.

[islandgal140]

Hey, did anyone catch the leering look John was giving Caviar girl at Dorinda's party?  Oh man, he looked like he wanted to swallow that poor thing whole.

 

Not for nothing but John always looks like that to me even when just reading a menu in a restaurant. Similar to some people who just have resting bitchface, I think John just has resting perv face. 

 

 

Ramona is just an asshole. I don't really care what led up to what and who escalated what. What pisses me off and makes me strongly dislike Ramona is that old runtelldat shit she pulled where she herself was talking much shit about John but than goes to Dorinda and acts like she was just an innocent bystander whose ears were offended by the things Luann spewed about her so-called dear friends man. That to me is one of the worst violations ever! That is why I can't with Ramona's nasty petty ass and why I can never find fault with Luann going in on her ass after all the nasty shit Ramona has said and done to her re: her marriage and kids. Glad that Dorinda saw right thru her.

 

Ramona was acting strange during that whole caviar dinner. Frankly, I do think she was feeling some kind of way about something but I of course don't know what. I think she was spoiling for a scene. She seemed inebriated and her going over to cuddle and kiss on Dorinda? Please.

The whole bringing food to Mario thing earlier in the episode was weird. Did you see Ramona's face and eyes during that sequence with B and Dorinda? Those were her huge, crazy runway eyes.

 

I never watched Bethenny 's talk show but watching her on WWHL interviewing Miss Andy I can see why her show got cancelled. She constantly interrupted Andy while he attempted to answer her questions.

 

The title of Bethanny's talk show thread over at the now defunct TWOP was "Shut up guests I'm talking." Pretty much says it all doesn't it. 

 

CB2 is for broke bitches like me. CB2 is the little cheaper sister company of Crate and Barrel, which I would think is also too pedestrian for B but would make more sense.

 

This scene made me sad because now that Carole can talk to Bethenny, Heather REALLY won't get any air time.  I'm sort of kidding, but not really.  The only scenes Heather has had this year have been with Carole.

 

This is so sad to me. Carole and Heather may not be my favorites but they do seem to have found some type of real friendship outside the show. Thing is if B decided not to come back next year, Carole will likely rarely if ever see her again. B is an opportunistic work friend.

 

Dorinda's house in the Berkshires looks like nothing I expected. It's amazing. Previews make it like a murder mystery house and all the guests look like Clue characters, especially the Countess. Git it!

 

I was NOT enamored or enthralled with Carole's run for coop board but at least she was acting like a grown up. I don't get why she would need to engage such heavy hitters for such a thing. Real political campaign managers?? Really. I hope those handmade middle school looking posters that even Reese Witherspoon's character in Election would be embarrassed by were just for that initial 'think tank' and not used during the actual campaign. 

Edited May 27, 2015 by islandgal140

[poeticlicensed]

I already have forgotten the names of the two guys who are "executives" with Sonja Morgan's Vanderlay Industries, but I remember looking at their LinkedIn profiles, and both contained such buzzy phrases as "international luxury lifestyle."

 

Seinfeld reference! Yay!

[Otherkate]

Haven't we had enough of Bethenny and her therapist?  It was a big chunk of her own show, now we get more?  I'm just not interested in Bethenny's rehashing of her childhood, and the countless other issues she seems to have.

 

Ugh, agreed. I hate "therapy" scenes, but I really hate hers for some reason. And they seem to go on FOREVER.

 

I think she has shared custody. I'm not sure of the exact details but I think it's pretty much 50/50. On a personal level I feel bad for her. It's absolutely best thing for a kid to have time with both parents but it must be pretty shitty to send your kid(s) off to their other parent half of their life and feel as if you're missing out on them. I too would be devastated if I had to do the same with my kids.

Plus, for Bethenny, Bryn is the only person she has who is "hers" since she doesn't appear to associate with any extended family, even and she's an only child.

 

I have a similar set up with my kids and it is absolutely awful when they are not around. That said, I don't at all hate my ex and I know that it's the best thing for my kids - he's a very good father. All the same, that first day when they aren't with me is torture and I'm pretty much a miserable creature unfit for company. Hopefully you get used to it at some point, but I totally get why Bethenny is having all these crying jags.

 

I already have forgotten the names of the two guys who are "executives" with Sonja Morgan's Vanderlay Industries, but I remember looking at their LinkedIn profiles, and both contained such buzzy phrases as "international luxury lifestyle."

 

 

Hah, I totally think of these guys as being from Vandelay Industries.