S07.E08: The Cavi-Art Of War

[Mrs peel]

I don't know what to think about Heather's intentions regarding the Kmart comment. Heather is a smart person so she'd have to know that Sonja isn't going to be able to luck out in getting a huge retailer like Kmart or Target or whatever and it doesn't matter if those aren't high end they're still out of Sonja's league IMHO. Then of course we have the fact that Heather knows perfectly well how delusional Sonja is so no way do I think that Heather imagines Sonja envisioning her line ending up in Kmart even though that would be a great accomplishment for her. Sonja is the person who stupidly talks about how Diddy comes on her yacht or whatever the hell she said--of course this nutty lady is going to think that her line is going to end up at Saks or Bloomingdales.

 

I haven't seen every episode this season and I'm behind on the threads but does something seem off about Dorinda's voice to anyone else? She sounds sort of slurry to me like she takes a lot of pills. I don't know, I just get that constantly medicated vibe.

Sonja probably thinks Bloomindales is beneath her. Bergdorf Goodman, that's the store for her. (IIRC someone posted a depressing story a while back of Sonja taking up hours of a personal shopper's time there and ended by saying her boyfriend would be back to buy "everything." No pick up, no. Bergdorf purchases for her nowadays.)

I hadn't thought anything about Dorinda's voice before reading this, but smoker! popped immediately into my head. I am now around so few smokers who knows if I am remembering correctly.

[Malaprop cocktail]

I don't even understand how custody of Bryn vs. time with the housewives becomes a plot line. If the problem is Bethenny doesn't get to see Bryn that often, then by definition she has the rest of the time to do RHONY stuff. Unless we are supposed to believe that all of the RHONY events coincide exactly with Bethenny's custody of Bryn. Not buying it.

[LotusFlower]

As I explained above, that would lead to a nonsensical result.  Having to keep silent about someone with regard to the divorce  but being free to trash them in reference to the custody case makes no sense.  

Well it might not make sense to you (it does to me), but regardless, it's what's in place.

Frankly, what's confusing to me is the gag order concerning the divorce. I think I commented on the first episode thread - can Bethenny say all that? (all the "I was forced out of my home" talk that motorcitymom discussed above). I felt like she violated the order left and right. Maybe Jason isn't watching? Doesn't care? Maybe there is no gag order?

[motorcitymom65]

As I explained above, that would lead to a nonsensical result.  Having to keep silent about someone with regard to the divorce  but being free to trash them in reference to the custody case makes no sense.  So I am sure the essence of the gag order was incorporated into any agreement they made regarding custody, which is why we don't hear Bethenny specifically commenting on Jason's behavior or attitude with regard to either aspect of their case.  Essentially, she is still subject to that gag order's terms even thought the custody case is technically settled. 

 

Merely remarking upon getting Bryn for six days or whatever is not commenting on Jason in any way, so Bethenny is free to do that.  But veering into a discussion about how she needs to change things with Jason is a trickier subject and I think that is why Bethenny didn't want to talk about it with Heather.  It would be pushing the envelope maybe a little too far.

Does is seem like Beth was walking a fine line when talking about her living situation, however? I ask this because I truly do not know. I didn't expect her to get into it, but she has a couple of times. In one scene she talked about how in the world it was possible for her to be in such a situation given that she had been responsible for building/remodeling the apartment she lived in with Jason. She didn't say his name, but she said she couldn't really live there because he was living there and that it was so unfair. I was so surprised to hear her comment on this given the fact that as far as I understand, this is part of what they are discussing in court.

[ancslove]

I don't think either Heather or Bethenny were really out of line or malicious.  Bethenny has a right to want to keep control of any conversation about her daughter.  It's one thing to volunteer information, it's another to get questioned on the nitty-gritty details.  Even without a gag order in place, it's understandable if B wanted to keep the entire topic on her terms and only her terms.  Whether the people around her agree to that is another thing, but I can't fault Bethenny for trying to shut it down until and unless she herself brings it up.  And I don't think Heather was trying to be mean or judgmental or even egregiously nosy by trying to bond over the Beth/Bryn situation, she just didn't pick up on any of Bethenny's clear dislike of her questions.  I can empathize with the feeling of suddenly finding yourself in a conversation minefield and not knowing why you can't step on a certain place.  But a lot of people have those sorts of touchy topics, and you either have enough motivation to try and build a relationship around them, or you don't.  I think Heather and Bethenny are still in that beginning phase (possibly prolonged by both being friends of Carole).  But personally, I enjoy watching that kind of building dynamic, over the horror that happened at Dorinda's birthday dinner.   Heather and Beth may have been bristling a bit when they left each other, but they weren't bruised and bleeding.

[raiderred1]

Lord I hope Beth keeps it together around her daughter, although I highly doubt she does.  In the first few seasons on the RHNY I didn't mind Beth but once I saw her shows I was OUT!  To say this woman has issues is a huge understatement.  She needs to be off TV and try to fix her damn self.  At least for the sake of Bryn.  I sure hope Jason and his parents are a safe place for Bryn to fall.  She's such a precious little girl. 

[AnnA]

This may surprise all of you but so far, I don't dislike any of this season's cast members.  There are times I dislike something they've said or done but that's not unusual.  There are times I dislike things my own family members and friends have said or done but I still care about them.  I haven't warmed up to Heather yet and that may or may not ever happen but I am warming up to Dorinda.

 

As far as the rest of them go, I like Bethenny and Carol.  They're obviously not that well liked here on the board but being in the minority doesn't bother me.  Once upon a time I really didn't care for the Countess but she hasn't annoyed me much this season.  Sonja and Ramona are Sonja and Ramona.  I don't know how else to explain them.  They are what they are.

 

Of course all of this is subject to change as the season plays out.   

 

I don't have anything much to say about Kristen because from what I've seen so far, she practically doesn't exist.  

 

ETA:  I should mention that I stopped watching RHONY after Bethenny left so this is my first season with the newbies.

Edited May 28, 2015 by AnnA

[Otherkate]

Sounds like you and I feel pretty much the same, Anna. I do enjoy all the ladies on the NYC show, even with all their faults. I'm having a tougher time with Heather right now, but I've always liked her in the past so I'm not holding it against her. Kristen has pretty much always been a non factor for me.

 

I was pleased to find myself warming to Dorinda during this episode, because I wasn't sure about her at first. I think I dig her.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Otherkate

[Celia Rubenstein]

Does is seem like Beth was walking a fine line when talking about her living situation, however? I ask this because I truly do not know. I didn't expect her to get into it, but she has a couple of times. In one scene she talked about how in the world it was possible for her to be in such a situation given that she had been responsible for building/remodeling the apartment she lived in with Jason. She didn't say his name, but she said she couldn't really live there because he was living there and that it was so unfair. I was so surprised to hear her comment on this given the fact that as far as I understand, this is part of what they are discussing in court.

 

I thought that statement was a HUGE mistake on her part, and I am betting she heard from her lawyer to watch it!  I envision a frantic email to Andy Cohen begging for anything else she said like that to be scrubbed, lol. 

 

I don't think either Heather or Bethenny were really out of line or malicious.  Bethenny has a right to want to keep control of any conversation about her daughter.  It's one thing to volunteer information, it's another to get questioned on the nitty-gritty details.  

 

I don't think Heather was being malicious as much as she was being obtuse.  And I think you describing Bethenny as wanting to keep control of the conversation is spot-on.  It's one thing for her to mention it, but I can understand her wariness of where Heather was taking the conversation.

 

 

 

Well it might not make sense to you (it does to me), but regardless, it's what's in place.

 

I don't know how you can know what is "in place" unless you are privy to inside information.  

[motorcitymom65]

I know that others have commented that the deal with Carole was lame, but I enjoyed the scene at her apartment. All of the girls there to support her and seeming to actually want to see her succeed. I have always liked Carole and cannot imagine that would change no matter how she channels SATC or talks about boys and girls. The scene kind of tells the bigger story of her for me. For the most part, everyone seems to like Carole, and I think that says a lot about who she is and how she relates to them all. I love it when they are all having a good time and not taking anything too seriously. It reminded me of the scenes last year when they all went to the Berkshires. With the exception of the always awful Ramona, everyone just enjoyed being with each other and having a good time. I love these scenes.

Edited May 28, 2015 by motorcitymom65

[LotusFlower]

I don't know how you can know what is "in place" unless you are privy to inside information.

I am privy. It's not inside information. It's been widely reported. As well as televised.

[Lemons]

My thing with Ramona is that her complaints about John seem really superficial.

 

That's because Ramona is superficial.  She has no depth.  She is shallow. 

[archer1267]

I can’t believe I’m going to defend Ramona after re-watching the Petrossian scene…but only a tiny bit. She took Heather’s comment as a back-handed compliment. It’s not the first time someone’s alluded to the “new,” post-Mario Ramona being the preferable model. Even a couple of episodes ago, LuAnn cackled “you’re SOOO much more interesting to me now!” I can understand why Ramona would hear these comments about how nice she is now, how open, etc. and think “well, what are you saying, that I was a bitch before?” and take umbrage. (Esp. in front of Michael.) I can see what she meant – my real, long-time friends know the real me, and you – someone I socialize with for the sake of a show – do not see certain sides of me. Many years ago I had a significant weight loss, and I think people did mean well, but the way they clucked over the new me made me start to think that they’d viewed me as a lesser person when I was heavier. I wanted to say “I’m the same person! I haven’t changed other than the exterior.” It’s not all that analogous to Ramona’s split from Mario, but I can see where she’s coming from.

 

Speaking of emotional displays, I don’t think avoiding them = being cold, but it ultimately boils down to whether you like Carole. I don’t think she was cold at all in CB2.  I’m a demonstrative person and I wouldn’t know how to deal with Bethenny myself – she’s all sharp corners and doesn’t present at all like someone who welcomes physical gestures. I saw Carol’s questions about hugs as wanting to respect Bethenny’s space. When Heather was on the beach last year, crying about Jax, Carole immediately went to her and put her arms around her. I don’t think it’s that Carole doesn’t hug or show affection  - she just feels more comfortable doing it with people she knows well.  In CB2, she listened to Bethenny and let her get her stuff out without asking her tons of questions, and it seemed to be exactly what Bethenny needed.

[Beden]

 

These are not real therapy sessions, it is all done for the show, not for real life help.

 

Here's what I think.  Many years ago I used to work for a physician.  Whenever he'd be on TV, his secretary would get upset because the next day the phone would ring off the hook, people wanting to make an appointment with him.  I would not be surprised if that therapist's phone rang off the hook this morning, calls coming from people who saw him on TV.

 

I think we here think differently because I believe that we on this board view anonymity differently.  I mean we are here, not on Facebook talking about this but on an anonymous message board; and that tells me that we have a different view of privacy, anonymity and boundaries, than many people today.  I was telling someone that today it seems like everybody wants to show themselves on Youtube and Instagram and Facebook and Twitter and here I am, wanting to be anonymous.  I guess I'm the odd duck.  I wouldn't make an appointment with a therapist who puts themselves on TV but as I said, I'm an odd duck.

   I agree with both of the above (apologies for the italics and oddness; my cat is 'helping' me type this). I get that these scenes are all staged and likely at least semi scripted. Aside from the obvious lure of $ and higher profile and likely more patients, I don't see this as a real + for the Dr. It's, at best, a cheesy kind of 'fame'. It doesn't impress me as something a valued and high end professional would seriously embrace unless they really, really need the free ad for themselves. It's just so...tacky.

[Giselle]

What do you figure it costs to have caviar and champagne at Petrossian for seven/eight people? I always think of Babette's Feast: "dinner for twelve at the Cafe Anglais costs ten thousand francs." Ah, paradise.

The rest is dross.

 

mmmmm....My favorite movie of all time. Love that move and the book even more.

[motorcitymom65]

I can’t believe I’m going to defend Ramona after re-watching the Petrossian scene…but only a tiny bit. She took Heather’s comment as a back-handed compliment. It’s not the first time someone’s alluded to the “new,” post-Mario Ramona being the preferable model. Even a couple of episodes ago, LuAnn cackled “you’re SOOO much more interesting to me now!” I can understand why Ramona would hear these comments about how nice she is now, how open, etc. and think “well, what are you saying, that I was a bitch before?” and take umbrage. (Esp. in front of Michael.) I can see what she meant – my real, long-time friends know the real me, and you – someone I socialize with for the sake of a show – do not see certain sides of me. Many years ago I had a significant weight loss, and I think people did mean well, but the way they clucked over the new me made me start to think that they’d viewed me as a lesser person when I was heavier. I wanted to say “I’m the same person! I haven’t changed other than the exterior.” It’s not all that analogous to Ramona’s split from Mario, but I can see where she’s coming from.

.

I see what you are saying, and I think that was Ramona's issue, but at the end of the day, this is the entire problem with Ramona. She cannot self-reflect in any real manor. Not really. She can talk about it and try to talk the talk, but she cannot really do it, because doing so involves being able to evaluate your flaws. Ramona herself has talked all season about how she is different. She has used different terms. At Lu's Hampton house she told Beth she was trying to be more "politically correct", which didn't actually fit with what was going on, but she seemed to be saying she was trying to communicate differently. During Dorinda's party a couple of weeks ago she said she was trying to learn to be more sympathetic to others and their issues. She has talked on Twitter for months about the "new" Ramona. As late as a few weeks ago when people were tweeting that they liked the "new Ramona", she was responding "I like her too". She knew she needed to change on some level because people had been telling her this for years, but she doesn't understand exactly what it is that she needs to change because she is so blind to her own faults. She is just saying she has changed because that is the right thing to say. People on this forum and others have discussed the fact that she is different and that they like her better. All of this is meant to be a good thing, but to Ramona it only means that at one point there were things about her that weren't so easy to like. It reminds me of year-end performance evaluations I have given in the past where I praise people for their developmental successes, only on the rare occasion to have them argue that there was anything that needed fixing to begin with. It is so frustrating, but you cannot argue or reason with stupid, unaware people. That is Ramona at her core, which is why I believe she will end up alone, unless she becomes desperate enough to take Mario back. Edited May 28, 2015 by motorcitymom65

[AnnA]

Sounds like you and I feel pretty much the same, Anna. I do enjoy all the ladies on the NYC show, even with all their faults. I'm having a tougher time with Heather right now, but I've always liked her in the past so I'm not holding it against her. Kristen has pretty much always been a non factor for me.

 

I was pleased to find myself warming to Dorinda during this episode, because I wasn't sure about her at first. I think I dig her.

 

That's good to know OtherKate!  

 

I didn't like Dorinda at first either but that was mostly because of the restaurant scene with John.  I thought she was being a total bitch.  The more I see of her, I'm inclined to attribute that bitchiness to her daughter.  I think Dorinda is intimidated by her.  It must be because of her eyebrows.  They frighten everyone.

 

I haven't been posting as much on this board as I did on BH and NJ and now I know why.  I just don't really, really HATE anyone on NY.........at least not yet anyway.  That's probably a good thing.  I wouldn't want to develop carpal tunnel syndrome before the OC comes back because I really hate Vicki.  Snarking about the HWs with all of you is the best part of being here.  LOL

Edited May 28, 2015 by AnnA

[The Evil One]

I don't even understand how custody of Bryn vs. time with the housewives becomes a plot line. If the problem is Bethenny doesn't get to see Bryn that often, then by definition she has the rest of the time to do RHONY stuff. Unless we are supposed to believe that all of the RHONY events coincide exactly with Bethenny's custody of Bryn. Not buying it.

My impression is that during this time, custody is very contentious. I've read enough tabloid fodder to know that this is/was a VERY contentious divorce. So yes, I can see B being spastic about having to leave a party at a certain time for pickup. Or her not wanting to go to the Berkshsires with her daughter. It will all be used against her - "B is too involved in reality TV/her business to make it in time for pickup. Jason does. B took her kid to the Berkshires for a reality TV show. Jason room his kid to his parents house." She can't win. It's easier (and more logical) to blow off the events.

And this is why she is having a meltdown - her childhood was a nightmare. And while Bryn's is far, far, far from that - Bethenny can't see that. She sees turmoil in her kid's life and it kills her.

[imjagain]

With regards to Heather inquiring about Beth's custody issue, im going to try to explain it how I see it.

So I run into a Co worker and I explain why I haven't been around socially as much as I used to.

Me: yeah things have been crazy our son was diagnosed with autism and it's been exhausting . He is verbally delayed and his issues have really taken up so much time.

Friend/coworker: I'm so sorry to hear this. Are you all doing speech, physical and occupational therapy? They all help you need to do them.

Me: yes of course, I'm so sorry but I have to go.

Cut to me talking to husband : Can you believe she brought up our son's autism? How dare she. That's so personal!

End scene.

My point is Heather was not talking about anything Beth had not brought up many times not only to us as viewers, but to the other women.

For Heather to get the the big "How dare you?" in regards to the subject of Beth's custody issues is beyond ridiculous! Heather was talking about stuff Beth mentioned many many times.

Edited May 28, 2015 by imjagain

[bravofan27]

This is how I see Heather's convos. This did not actually happen for any dense folks out there. 

 

Heather on camera, "Oh, how are you mama?? You look fantastic! I'm so happy to see you!"

Mama, "I'm tired, I was up all night working on this and that so I wasn't able to get here on time."

Heather on camera, "Ohhhh! That sounds so hard! It shouldn't be that way! It is so difficult for me to hear this because I know how hard you work and how you need some girl time!"

 

Heather on TH: "OMG. What a bitch. She was working on her stupid project all night that she knows I could have helped her with. All she needed to do was ask me and I would have been there. Now she is making excuses for not being able to hang out with us girls because she was working. Doesn't she know I want to help her? Why didn't she just ask me? I just can't believe it."

 

Heather-- this is why no one likes you and no one even bothers to talk to you. because you shady and fake. I think the reason why Bethenny didn't like Heather's questions is because she felt like it was just to catch her in a lie and insincere. Heather likes catching people being shady, because it takes emphasis off her own shadiness. I guarentee she could really give a shit about anything going on in Bethennys life. 

 

Heather's nickname should be, "Prosecutor Mama." She makes me crazy with her insincerity and her quickness to call out everyone on what she sees as inconsistencies or lies. She should just chill and be nice to people without the ulterior motives, or take a class and learn something if she finds these people that boring. 

Edited May 28, 2015 by bravofan27

[Boofish]

So Bethany don't like Heather. If I recall correctly Carole took an instant dislike to LuAnne her first season and didn't try to hide her feelings. I guess since she expressed her disdain with humor and passive aggressive comments it was not a big deal. To me this just proves that people really do care if others like them despite all the "I don't care what people think" essays.

[WireWrap]

My impression is that during this time, custody is very contentious. I've read enough tabloid fodder to know that this is/was a VERY contentious divorce. So yes, I can see B being spastic about having to leave a party at a certain time for pickup. Or her not wanting to go to the Berkshsires with her daughter. It will all be used against her - "B is too involved in reality TV/her business to make it in time for pickup. Jason does. B took her kid to the Berkshires for a reality TV show. Jason room his kid to his parents house." She can't win. It's easier (and more logical) to blow off the events.

And this is why she is having a meltdown - her childhood was a nightmare. And while Bryn's is far, far, far from that - Bethenny can't see that. She sees turmoil in her kid's life and it kills her.

The custody case was settled before filming began.

Edited May 28, 2015 by WireWrap

[motorcitymom65]

Heather on camera, "Oh, how are you mama?? You look fantastic! I'm so happy to see you!"

Mama, "I'm tired, I was up all night working on this and that so I wasn't able to get here on time."

Heather on camera, "Ohhhh! That sounds so hard! It shouldn't be that way! It is so difficult for me to hear this because I know how hard you work and how you need some girl time!"

 

Heather on TH: "OMG. What a bitch. She was working on her stupid project all night that she knows I could have helped her with. All she needed to do was ask me and I would have been there. Now she is making excuses for not being able to hang out with us girls because she was working. Doesn't she know I want to help her? Why didn't she just ask me? I just can't believe it."

 

Heather-- this is why no one likes you and no one even bothers to talk to you. because you shady and fake. I think the reason why Bethenny didn't like Heather's questions is because she felt like it was just to catch her in a lie and insincere. Heather likes catching people being shady, because it takes emphasis off her own shadiness. I guarentee she could really give a shit about anything going on in Bethennys life. 

 

Heather's nickname should be, "Prosecutor Mama." She makes me crazy with her insincerity and herquickness to call out everyone on what she sees as inconsistencies or lies. She should just chill and be nice to people without the ulterior motives, or take a class and learn something if she finds these people that boring.

When did this conversation take place and who was it with?

[breezy424]

My understanding of the gag order is that it pertains mainly to Bethenny mentioning Jason, be it in reference to either their divorce or the custody case.  sSo she is walking a fine line discussing the issue of Bryn's custody and her not being able to change off the scheduled days, which was what Heather was talking about.  It could be construed as commenting on Jason's behavior, which she is not allowed to do. 

 

You can't really separate the divorce and custody case when it comes to the gag order.  That would be like saying Bethenny has to stay mum on Jason regarding their divorce, but she can call him a selfish lying mother effer regarding custody, which would make no sense at all. 

 

 

This whole thing about a gag order is very confusing to me. Do we have someone with knowledge that can help? From what I read of the custody deal, it was just that it was sealed, but I never read there was a gag order. Are they the same thing?

I honestly didn't expect for Beth to discuss anything about her divorce or Bryn on the show. But she has. She has talked and cried about how she picked out every fucking thing in her home, but that Jason gets to live in it while she wonders around wthout a home. I was surprised when she said this in the first episode, because she was clearly talking about issues with regard to their divorce. She was clearly saying that he was doing something that she didn't like but that she had no choice. As others have pointed out, she has also talked about only having Bryn 50% of the time. She has been talking about her issues nonstop, so it seems kind of late to become offended when others try to engage her in conversation.

Beth actually backed off of Heather in her blog. She said that Heather is curious but that she believes it comes from a good place. Beth put the blame a bit on herself and said that she just tends to not trust people. I am wondering if watching the last couple of episodes made her realize just how much she has shared and how silly she looks in hammering away at Heather for being interested. She said on camera that she has a hard time having sex with a man because she heard her mom engage in noisy sex after being beaten. As far as issues of privacy go, that would be pretty much at the top of my list and she told the world. After sharing so much, it seems ridiculous for her to pretend that she doesn't like to share her life or her issues. I can sympathize with how hard it would be to discuss some of this with the world. That would be one of many reasons I would never want to be on a reality show. She has made different choices and decided a long time ago that she was fully prepared to share most everything.

 

The custody case was in family court.  Family court is open to the public.  That is why we had a first hand report from People magazine.  The divorce proceedings are in a different court and what happens in that court are not a matter of public record.  Bethenny and Jason are both free to reveal the conditions of their custody arrangements.  Supposedly, and I say supposedly, Jason's lawyers requested a gag order be put on their divorce proceedings.  He doesn't want Bethenny to discuss this in the media.  BTW, this report came from Radaronline and they are not stating who the source is for this information.

[Trooper York]

I thought the gag order was that Bethenny is supposed to gag and ultimately puke anytime somebody mentions Pennsylvania, grand parents or nuclear family.

[bravofan27]

When did this conversation take place and who was it with?

Seriously?

[LovesLinus]

Did Heather have a nose job? In the flashback with Ramona, her nose looks massive, compared to now.

Maybe it's just me, but it looks really different. Not that there's anything wrong with that....(Seinfeld)

Edited May 28, 2015 by LovesLinus

[JakeyJokes]

Did Heather have a nose job? In the flashback with Ramona, her nose looks massive, compared to now.

Maybe it's just me, but it looks really different. Not that there's anything wrong with that....(Seinfeld)

 

I doubt it. When she hit the glass in St. Bart's, she said while icing her nose that she always wanted a nose job but that her parents wouldn't let her.

[ciaoformeow]

My impression is that during this time, custody is very contentious. I've read enough tabloid fodder to know that this is/was a VERY contentious divorce. So yes, I can see B being spastic about having to leave a party at a certain time for pickup. Or her not wanting to go to the Berkshsires with her daughter. It will all be used against her - "B is too involved in reality TV/her business to make it in time for pickup. Jason does. B took her kid to the Berkshires for a reality TV show. Jason room his kid to his parents house." She can't win. It's easier (and more logical) to blow off the events.

 

 

 

Totally agree!! 

 

Every single thing she does on this show can come back to bite her in the butt in court if she doesn't watch herself. I think that's the REAL reason behind her being so over the top with "I have to spend time with my kid" talk. You never know what scene will make it in the final cut of an episode, so it really makes sense to be on repeat throughout filming to make sure you're filmed saying it as many times as possible. There's no way he'll be able to use any type of excuses around Beth neglecting her parenting duties to film for the show. 

[ciaoformeow]

My point is Heather was not talking about anything Beth had not brought up many times not only to us as viewers, but to the other women.

For Heather to get the the big "How dare you?" in regards to the subject of Beth's custody issues is beyond ridiculous! Heather was talking about stuff Beth mentioned many many times.

 

 

I'm not going to take sides of Beth vs. Heather (I like and hate them both, equally :D ) but I have to admit at this stage  Beth has been talking about this stuff openly with who exactly? Us (the viewers in her TH), her therapist (?) and other people in her life. But when it comes to the other HW's  I think she's only really talked about it with Ramona and Sonja (maybe Lu) --- all who have gone through (or are going through) similar situations. 

 

So it's really not fair to keep saying Beth is talking about it with them all the time... she really hasn't been. So at that point it's still inappropriate for Heather Mama to approach the subject as if they're familiar longtime friends. 

Edited May 28, 2015 by lilsadone

[WireWrap]

Totally agree!! 

 

Every single thing she does on this show can come back to bite her in the butt in court if she doesn't watch herself. I think that's the REAL reason behind her being so over the top with "I have to spend time with my kid" talk. You never know what scene will make it in the final cut of an episode, so it really makes sense to be on repeat throughout filming to make sure you're filmed saying it as many times as possible. There's no way he'll be able to use any type of excuses around Beth neglecting her parenting duties to film for the show. 

The custody case was over, finished, settled, done, before filming began. Bethenny has mentioned custody in some way with every single HW there. She  talked about it when she got in the limo going to AC with everyone except Carole/LuAnn. She spoke to LuAnn in Miami about it and finally to Carole this past episode. Carole was the last 1 to hear about it I think, she is the only 1 without children with the most flexible schedule and, IMO, Bethenny went into more detail with her than any of the rest, including LuAnn.

[motorcitymom65]

Seriously?

Seriously. I don't remember it. Since it is apparently the reason "no one" likes Heather, it seems important.

[ciaoformeow]

The custody case was over, finished, settled, done, before filming began. Bethenny has mentioned custody in some way with every single HW there. She  talked about it when she got in the limo going to AC with everyone except Carole/LuAnn. She spoke to LuAnn in Miami about it and finally to Carole this past episode. Carole was the last 1 to hear about it I think, she is the only 1 without children with the most flexible schedule and, IMO, Bethenny went into more detail with her than any of the rest, including LuAnn.

 

But changing custody can always be re-approached, correct? If he felt he had evidence showing reasons why he should have her more then Beth, wouldn't he be able to try for that again at any time?  A petition to modify. 

 

Considering Beth is paying his legal fees too, I wouldn't put it past him

 

And what did she say to Carol about it? I heard her talking about wanting real glasses, etc. but I also heard her say she doesn't want to talk about it while she apologized for being emotional but that she needs to spend time with her kid. 

 

Outside of her saying she wants to spend time with her kid over the HW's that's really the most I've heard her say about it with the other wives (besides R and S and Lu == all people she has known for years) 

Edited May 28, 2015 by lilsadone

[telemachus2]

Others have asked but I feel a need to reiterate -  if Bethenny is worried to the point of endless tears re her innocent daughter's involvement in a chaotic, bitter divorce/custody battle, & truly prioritizes time with Bryn, WTF is this ultra-busy multimillionaire doing on a cheap "reality" TV show?  Oh, yeah - Beth needed the show to build a bridge back to the man who serially beat, abused & then divorced her 100% evil mom.  Way to go, Beth - domestic violence is exactly what Bryn's been missing!  And Beth, being the (middle-aged) "child" she is, just couldn't reconnect with StepDaddyDearest sans Bravo, could she?  What IS this revolting trash I've been watching?  A few scenes of a naked housewife spreadeagled in a hotel lobby might purify the air - the hell with Bravo's parade of sagers with their damn smoke, bring back Alex & co! 

[Malaprop cocktail]

My impression is that during this time, custody is very contentious. I've read enough tabloid fodder to know that this is/was a VERY contentious divorce. So yes, I can see B being spastic about having to leave a party at a certain time for pickup. Or her not wanting to go to the Berkshsires with her daughter.

I totally understand why Bethenny has to bail when it's time to pick up her daughter. What I'm saying is she can do RHONY stuff the 50% of the time, or whatever, that she doesn't have her daughter. So far they are editing it to look like she has to leave every meeting/event early as if she were Bryn's sole caretaker.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Malaprop cocktail

[zoeysmom]

This whole thing about a gag order is very confusing to me. Do we have someone with knowledge that can help? From what I read of the custody deal, it was just that it was sealed, but I never read there was a gag order. Are they the same thing?

I honestly didn't expect for Beth to discuss anything about her divorce or Bryn on the show. But she has. She has talked and cried about how she picked out every fucking thing in her home, but that Jason gets to live in it while she wonders around wthout a home. I was surprised when she said this in the first episode, because she was clearly talking about issues with regard to their divorce. She was clearly saying that he was doing something that she didn't like but that she had no choice. As others have pointed out, she has also talked about only having Bryn 50% of the time. She has been talking about her issues nonstop, so it seems kind of late to become offended when others try to engage her in conversation.

Beth actually backed off of Heather in her blog. She said that Heather is curious but that she believes it comes from a good place. Beth put the blame a bit on herself and said that she just tends to not trust people. I am wondering if watching the last couple of episodes made her realize just how much she has shared and how silly she looks in hammering away at Heather for being interested. She said on camera that she has a hard time having sex with a man because she heard her mom engage in noisy sex after being beaten. As far as issues of privacy go, that would be pretty much at the top of my list and she told the world. After sharing so much, it seems ridiculous for her to pretend that she doesn't like to share her life or her issues. I can sympathize with how hard it would be to discuss some of this with the world. That would be one of many reasons I would never want to be on a reality show. She has made different choices and decided a long time ago that she was fully prepared to share most everything.

They are not to discuss each other in a negative light-which is why many surmise Bethenny did the one sided custody battle so she could get her story out there without violating the order.  They are also not suppose to discuss the child-so a question like how is Bryn handling the divorce would be off limits.  As far as the who gets custody when that would not be part of a gag order.  It has been said repeatedly they have 50/50 custody and Bethenny has said she has the child two weekends a month.

 

At some point Bethenny's lust for attention may die down.  I am not sure why she agreed to return to RHONYC and she seems to be successful at everything she does these days but this seems like she is adding dead weight to an already sinking franchise.  If it was to garner sympathy for her divorce I am not feeling it,  Between her richest homeless person and all the crying jags over what is now almost a three year process that she brought on herself.

 

I agree about the TMI-maybe there are some things that should stay in the therapist's office.  At some point Bethenny will have to accept the fact that her daughter may not appreciate all the candor surrounding mom.  Bethenny is an odd duck she almost seems to revel in the divorce attention but sure shut Heather down.  I really can't see what the purpose of having the two of them on the show is at this point.  I am feeling a little bad for Heather she is coming off poorly this year.  Bethenny seems to be moving in on her girlfriend territory with Carole.  There is definitely a change in the dynamic on the show and I don't know if it is a good one.

[Malaprop cocktail]

double

Edited May 28, 2015 by Malaprop cocktail

[zoeysmom]

I totally understand why Bethenny has to bail when it's time to pick up her daughter. What I'm saying is she can do RHONY stuff the 50% of the time, or whatever, that she doesn't have her daughter. So far they are editing it to look like she has to leave every meeting/event early as if she were Bryn's sole caretaker.

This has made no sense to me-Bethenny gets a production schedule well in advance and her custody arrangement is in stone.  This is starting to remind me of a Who Is the Best Mommy contest.  Heather (who is a CEO) and Kristen who also works whining about not being able to take their children to school one day was just ridiculous.  Unless there is something specific that Bethenny has agreed to where she must first offer Jason the child before utilizing any care provider I am thinking she is over doing it.  We get it she wants to spend time with her daughter-0it would be more convincing if when she was with her daughter there was no assistant and no work talk.

[AnnaL]

Bravo wanted Bethenny badly so they agreed to her conditions, she can't attend events when she has "her" time with her daughter and that is it. Bravo could have said "sorry, that is not how it works, you must be present in all and every event or you can't have this job" but that is not what they did, right? They wanted her badly so they took whatever she could offer. I doubt Bethenny lied to them.

 

I doubt that Bethenny commited herself to be available to their filming schedule 24/7 and is now just being a "bad worker" by not going to some events, if that was the case she would be fired, Bravo wanted to have her in any capacity they could have her and that is all there is to it. Of course the others are reeling at that and find ways to point that she has been missing events when in reality they have shown Bethenny at almost every single gathering, her absence has not been hugely noticed.

 

I didn't see anybody making a huge deal out of all the events that Lisa Vanderpump missed the last two seasons, I didn't see anybody complaining that she was getting the good edit because she was allowed to skip more events tham she could attend, she has businesses to run and other show to film for, she has all the money she can possibly need so why even do the show? To showcase her business that is all, same as Bethenny. Bravo could had take her or leave it and they took her. Those are allowances Bravo makes with their HW, not all of them, just certain but this is not a unique situation at all.

 

Lisa Vanderpump went through a huge lawsuit deal that she lost, did any of her castmates felt the need to ask her about it? Nope. Did any of them offered their unsolicited support regarding this issue? Nope. There are just some lines that regular people do not cross but those lines are blurred with Heather, she comes too soon, too strong and then complains when people back off from her. heather is not a long time friend of Bethenny to be asking these things, the fact that Bethenny is talking bout how she doesn't want to miss any time with her daughter because she has her only half of the time doesn't mean that Heather asks the details of the many nights she spends at home and then interjects that she has to change that. I bet if Bethenny could change that she would have but millions of dollar later it is what it is.

 

Heather doesn't see it wrong in any way because that is just part of her abrassive personality and she figures she shows her concern but IMO I would react the same way Bethenny did. Heather needs to relax and let the conversation flow naturally and not push the issues so much, it is very annoying.

[sasha206]

 

 

Lisa Vanderpump went through a huge lawsuit deal that she lost, did any of her castmates felt the need to ask her about it? Nope. Did any of them offered their unsolicited support regarding this issue? Nope. There are just some lines that regular people do not cross but those lines are blurred with Heather, she comes too soon, too strong and then complains when people back off from her. heather is not a long time friend of Bethenny to be asking these things, the fact that Bethenny is talking bout how she doesn't want to miss any time with her daughter because she has her only half of the time doesn't mean that Heather asks the details of the many nights she spends at home and then interjects that she has to change that. I bet if Bethenny could change that she would have but millions of dollar later it is what it is.

 

Heather doesn't see it wrong in any way because that is just part of her abrassive personality and she figures she shows her concern but IMO I would react the same way Bethenny did. Heather needs to relax and let the conversation flow naturally and not push the issues so much, it is very annoying.

 

I don't recall Lisa Vanderpump go on crying jags and talking about how her life sucks because of a lawsuit she lost.  If she had, I'm sure her castmates would be asking her about it on camera.

 

For me, Bethenney is on camera more than she needs to be so whatever her child care arrangements are, it hasn't affected in my view, her presence on the show. But it's just bizarre to me that she feels her custodial arrangements are so personal and so verboten to ask about.  Heather's not asking, "Gee, why weren't you given full custody?  Did the judge think your issues with being thin could harm your daughter as she gets older?  Did your shitty family life factor into it?"  Heather asked a question I think 90% of people wouldn't think was rude or too personal.  And the question WAS relevant.  She didn't just out of the blue ask her.  It seems to me Bethenney just doesn't like Heather.   

[Beden]

 

And this is why she is having a meltdown - her childhood was a nightmare. And while Bryn's is far, far, far from that - Bethenny can't see that. She sees turmoil in her kid's life and it kills her.

Having been through a divorce and then raising my son as a single parent I know a little about this; just about any child going through their parent's break up and divorce is traumatized, especially a nasty, drawn-out, public mess like this one was. My ex and I played nice, made a point to never dis the other to the kid and my son was still angry and had issues which he's just now resolving and putting to bed--at the age of 26. He and I have always had a close relationship--any number of people, friends, professionals and family said endless times that I was the only one keeping his life stable and gave unqualified support to the boy. Through choice he has contact, usually by phone as they live in different states, with his father maybe 2 or 3 times a year (his father is also severely mentally ill as diagnosed by 3 different shrinks and corroborated by 2 family court judges). It took almost 15 years, endless conversations and finally his becoming an adult for major issues to be largely resolved.

 

I assure you, despite her young age, Bryn is being impacted by this BS. Both of her parents may love her to death but she's being impacted and it will be a major miracle if she dosen't have long term effects from this..

Edited May 28, 2015 by Beden

[Trooper York]

Any way you slice it Bethenny's participation in the Housewives is terrible for Bryn. At best it is a distraction and at worst another level of chaos in an already chaotic life. If she really thought about what was best for her daughter she would never have resigned with this circus.

[ottergirl]

Bravo wanted Bethenny badly so they agreed to her conditions, she can't attend events when she has "her" time with her daughter and that is it. Bravo could have said "sorry, that is not how it works, you must be present in all and every event or you can't have this job" but that is not what they did, right? They wanted her badly so they took whatever she could offer. I doubt Bethenny lied to them.

 

I doubt that Bethenny commited herself to be available to their filming schedule 24/7 and is now just being a "bad worker" by not going to some events, if that was the case she would be fired, Bravo wanted to have her in any capacity they could have her and that is all there is to it. Of course the others are reeling at that and find ways to point that she has been missing events when in reality they have shown Bethenny at almost every single gathering, her absence has not been hugely noticed.

 

(snip)

 

Heather doesn't see it wrong in any way because that is just part of her abrassive personality and she figures she shows her concern but IMO I would react the same way Bethenny did. Heather needs to relax and let the conversation flow naturally and not push the issues so much, it is very annoying.

 

The reason we the viewers don't see Bethenny missing events is that they only show events to which Bethenny shows up.  Kristen, for instance, has said in her blog that she invited Bethenny to a number of activities and Bethenny declined them all.  I find it really hard to believe that at this point in the season Heather, for instance, hasn't hosted any events or activities - but we haven't seen any on camera.   Also, it's worth noting that everyone agrees Bethenny hasn't been attending many cast activities - even Bethenny.  The dynamic is pretty clear - if Bethenny doesn't come to your activity, it won't make it on camera, and Bethenny hasn't been coming to any of the "new" cast member events.  I'm trying to think of anything hosted by Kristen/Heather/Carole/Dorinda that Bethenny has attended - the "election party" is the first one I can think of.  She just isn't showing up.  She goes to things for Sonja (a lot), and Ramona and Luann a bit, but for everyone else?  Nada enchilada.  

 

As for Heather and Bethenny, I agree - the conversations between them have just been awkward.  The "get Luann a car!' joke was awkward, the "you hurt Kristen's feelings" was awkward, it has all been off and uncomfortable to watch.  But I'm wondering who is at fault here.  Heather can come on too strong - for sure.  But she is TRYING.  She is really trying.  Every conversational gambit she has started with Bethenny has been shut down or dismissed - and it's a long list.   She's tried talking about how they each started their businesses through friends  ("I owe Luann a car?  I don't think so,") , she's tried talking about other cast mates' feelings ("snoring"), she's tried talking about her own business stuff (the MSNBC show, which Bethenny pretended not to understand), she's tried empathizing with Bethenny's child care issues (that's too personal, although Bethenny has discussed it nonstop), she's tried talking about a tattoo ("no").  And then add to that, all the things they are not allowed to discuss, most importantly, the serious boyfriend she doesn't want on camera because --- she doesn't want him on camera, and she's Bethenny, and she gets to decide.  

 

Meanwhile, what has Bethenny done to try to connect with Heather? Other than dismissing and shutting down every attempt to bond?  Literally - has she asked Heather one question about HER life?  Her family? Her business?  Has she attended an activity of Heather's?  All I see here is one person attempting - a little awkwardly - to make conversation/strike up a friendship, and one person shutting her down. And you know, it might not be so awkward if Bethenny would join in.  Heather's trying to play conversational tennis, and it's not working, but is it her fault for a bad serve, or Bethenny's fault for just standing there on the other side of the net letting all the balls drop and not even trying to return volley?   Until I see Bethenny try, at least a little bit, I'm not going to give Heather a hard time for being awkward about it.  We haven't seen her with a track record of having a hard time connecting with people - that's all on Bethenny.  

 

It's pretty clear what's going on behind the scenes here.  Bethenny was informed - on camera by Luann, and OFF camera by I am quite certain many producers including Andy - that her refusal to engage with the girls was making her look bad.  So she decided to reach out to ONE of them - and which one did she choose?  Shocker!! The one who is Andy's off-camera real life friend!  Now she can't get criticized by anyone for being snobbish and rude because hey, look, she and Carole are real friends!  It's even on Instagram!!  

 

I kind of wish Carole wouldn't go along with it, but Carole is probably too stoned to really get what's going on, and also, Carole doesn't care about anything.  (I say that not meanly - Carole is a roll with the punches girl, who doesn't get worked up about much at all, and after what she went through, I totally get that.)  

 

And can I, finally, say one other thing I like about Heather?  For all that Sonja and Bethenny and Ramona have been carrying on about their personal hardships, especially Bethenny, who says pretty much EVERY SINGLE EPISODE that "nobody knows the trouble I've seen," we've got Heather, who is dealing with a real life serious health situation WITH HER CHILD, which is pretty much the most horrible thing I can think of in life, and has never once used that as an excuse for not showing up, for being difficult or nasty, or anything. All she's done is express gratitude for liver transplants, raise money, be thankful for her kid, try to help him, etc.   Hey Bethenny - that's what being tough looks like.  Take notes.  And maybe, JUST ONCE, try to reciprocate just a little bit Heather's offer of friendship, even just to be polite.  

Edited May 28, 2015 by ottergirl

[JAYJAY1979]

Yes, custody may have been decided before filming...but it can always be revisited which is why I think bethanny is going to great lengths to reflect her daughter comes first.

Tamra and Simon on the OC had shared custody bit there were times when he threatened to revisit it due to.her filming for the show.when it was her turn to.have the kids. Season 6 had that as her story when left her kids with her mom.when she and Eddie went on vacation. Heck, she just lost shared custody of her oldest daughter to her ex.

So I can see bethanny, being as observant of reality TV, eeing this and trying to find a way to do the show and not risk custody of her child.

Also, I noticed a brief scene during the Sonja magazine party...where heather was saying snide comments about Sonja and.her line to Kristen...and Kristen telling her to be nice. A brief scene but appeared natural..which tells me all I need to know about their true personalities.

[archer1267]

Seriously. I don't remember it. Since it is apparently the reason "no one" likes Heather, it seems important.

 

 

Motorcitymom, the conversation didn't happen - it's how Bravofan27 perceives conversations with Heather (s/he put the disclaimer that it wasn't a real conversation).

 

Meanwhile, what has Bethenny done to try to connect with Heather? Other than dismissing and shutting down every attempt to bond?

 

 

Well, yeah…Bethenny noted that talking about custody is NOT the way to bond with her and I get that. But her problems are well-known to anyone who pays attention to Page 6 stuff and I think any of the women can be forgiven for thinking that if Bethenny agreed to appear on a reality show, that talking about her personal life was fair game. (Especially since she was obviously open to wheeling out her therapist and estranged step-dad to discuss the Greek tragedy that is her life. I mean, she can talk about her step-dad beating her mom with a phone, Mafia connections, but you can't ask about Bryn? WTH?)

 

I think, as a mom, Heather was trying to relate to Bethenny as a mom and it fell flat. I mean, yes, you can try to talk to Bethenny and pretend that you know squat about her life, but then you run the risk of B. branding you a fake, just like she did when Kelly tried to be nice to her at NY Fashion Week and B. shut it down. Heather could have commented on Bethenny's outfit and B. would have not given her much to work with.

[trimthatfat]

Heather doesn't see it wrong in any way because that is just part of her abrassive personality and she figures she shows her concern but IMO I would react the same way Bethenny did. Heather needs to relax and let the conversation flow naturally and not push the issues so much, it is very annoying.

ITA. It seems like she's taking it personally that Bethenny didn't take an immediate liking to her, so she's pushing hard to come off concerned and supportive when Bethenny is pulling back. I feel like she lacks self-awareness at times and needs to dial it back. For whatever reason, she's not clicking with Bethenny and their connection isn't natural. Carole and Bethenny have clicked and even vacationed with one another after filming, but that is a relationship that seems to have progressed naturally. I thought about how Heather would have handled Bethenny's CB2 meltdown and I think she would have handled it very differently.

Seriously. I don't remember it. Since it is apparently the reason "no one" likes Heather, it seems important.

I may be misunderstanding, but I thought bravofan27 was just demonstrating how Heather's thought process works.

[Celia Rubenstein]

I think Heather would do a lot better with Bethenny if she would exercise a little self control when it comes to making conversation.  I can see why Bethenny is not keen on her after some of their exchanges.

 

Heather went overboard with the whole "you should buy Luann a car" business.  I can't imagine how many leeches have probably come out of the woodwork with their hand out since Bethenny struck it rich (aside from Jason, lol).  She doesn't want to hear that she owes Luann anything, especially since Luann had zero to do with creating or naming Skinny Girl. But Heather was just so persistent.  And Heather bringing up Kristin's hurt feelings was just dumb. It's not her job to be the show nanny. Maybe an actual friend could say "hey, you hurt her feelings" and it's okay, but someone she barely knows bringing it up (in front of someone else who hadn't been invited to the birthday party, no less) was all kinds of awkward.  Bethenny doesn't owe Heather an explanation.  And if she owes Kristin an apology, that is between her and Kristin.  And I think Heather really went wrong trying to tell Bethenny that she "needs to fix" her visitation situation.  Heather may have been attempting to show some kind of acknowledgement that there was a situation Bethenny was unhappy with, but it could also be read as needlessly interjecting her personal opinion of what Bethenny should be doing in a very personal, emotional situation.  

 

Not everyone instantly takes to Heather's brand of familiarity right off the bat.  The nicknames, the getting too personal, too soon can be a real turn off to some people.  And I wonder if Sonja didn't have a little something to say about Heather to Bethenny, too.  The deck may have been a bit stacked against Heather to begin with.  

[kassa]

And this is why she is having a meltdown - her childhood was a nightmare. And while Bryn's is far, far, far from that - Bethenny can't see that. She sees turmoil in her kid's life and it kills her.

 

 

Except... if custody has already been settled, the rest is just arguing over money. Which there’s plenty of.  It can all stop as soon as she wants it to stop.  Yes, that might mean “losing.”  I have no idea what the guy is asking for, but even if it’s half, if the turmoil in your daughter’s life is “killing” you... you learn to live on the measly 50-60 million you have left over. 

 

It’s obviously not killing her enough yet that she’s willing to choose peace over winning.

 

And I'm not even saying she HAS to -- I can admire a scorched earth approach as much as the next gal.  But don't whine about your powerlessness while you're doing it.

[ancslove]

I think Heather likes having as many pieces of a puzzle in front of her as she can. In her blog this week, she talks about wanting to "bring clarity" to the custody situation. But I don't think Bethenny cares if Heather is 100% clear or not. In fact, she definitely prefers the opposite!

[runforcover]

Here's the thing: Heather is tacky.  With her unsettling adoption of "young person" slang as imagined from a Fat Albert episode, and her clumsy attempts to bond AND ESPECIALLY that tattoo.  But Heather-tacky is only two notches up from Bethenny-tacky.  Yes they are loud mouther alphas (Beth being significantly smarter) and they are both not really supposed to be there.  They made a mint exploiting female self-hatred only B made more by exposing the wounds behind the roughness and knows how to turn a phrase, so she wins.  But we are talking about narrow difference between two instances of the vulgar.

 

Also, way to go countess.  That felt entirely producer driven.

 

I really like Carole, but I wish they'd stop over-scripting her THs.  Or if they insist on it, they should just press on the open secret that she doesn't give a fuck and have her not actually give a fuck.  Transparency - that was good, Andy.