S07.E08: The Cavi-Art Of War

[breezy424]

I don't mean they have similar life histories.  I think they have very similar personalities.  Both self-made alpha females who tell it like it is, foul mouthed with a take no shit from anybody type attitude.  

Beth was never self made on RHNY.  And never was an alpha female.  She was the Greek chorus mostly.

[archer1267]

Now, it's practically a career for them, they've hired people to run their twitters, they have publicists, etc.

 

 

Yep! I remember how LuAnn and Sonja were mystified (S3) about Google alerts, what they were, and how you'd even use them. (Jill seemed the most savvy in that she set up Google alerts!) It was kind of charming.

[WireWrap]

I wouldn't say Heather barely knows Beth.  They spent a weekend in AC together plus that long ride down.  They've spent time together in the Hamptons and they've been to events together.  Obviously, Beth said something about having Bryn six days which prompted Heather's response.  So if something is that personal, why is Beth participating in the conversation to begin with?  There's a lot more on the cutting room floor than what we see in an episode.

 

Not splitting hairs.  There's a difference between someone saying, "Fix it"  and someone saying, "That's unfair.  You gotta fix that." 

Heather was also a guest on Behenny's talk show. This is what makes Bethenny's attitude toward Heather even more puzzling because both say they got along before then.

[ghoulina]

Ramoaner is, was and will ALWAYS be a miserable bitch. I have NO PITY for the woman.  I don't know how Mario put up with with her as long as he did and can totally understand his wandering eye.

 

The thing is, Mario didn't have to "put up" with her. He chose to marry her and stay married to her. And as nasty as Ramona has been to the girls, we never really saw her being nasty to Mario. Maybe she was off-camera, but she always struck me as a woman who was very doting on and supportive of her man. I think Mario is just a skeez, who'd have a roving eye no matter who he was married to. I think Ramona probably sensed that deep down and was always trying to overcompensate by being really nice and accommodating. But, by all means, if she made life that miserable for him, he could have packed up and walked out. I find Ramona vile plenty of the time, but vows are vows and I just don't really have any empathy for a cheater. 

[shoegal]

No one said 'Fix it'.  What Heather said was a response to something Beth said about visitation that we didn't see or hear.  Heather said so what is the visitation?  So six days you don't get to see her?  That's not fair.  You gotta fix that.  Then Beth said no and explained.  I don't find that obnoxious and unwarranted.

I don't believe Heather asking what is the visitation schedule is necessarily that bad, although I do think it's a little intrusive. The response of, "that's not fair, you gotta fix that" is extremely rude and obnoxious IMO. In fact, it's Bethenny level rude and obnoxious to me.

Heather seems to want to insert herself all up in Bethenny's business, I don't think she should be surprised if Bethenny snaps back. Heather would be better off if she got off Bethenny's jock. IMO.

[beaker73]

It was nice to see that in the middle of her meltdown in CB2 Beth still managed to get her shitty Skinny Girl drink front and center.  

 

It seemed to me that the custody conversation between Beth and Heather was a two-way street.  If it was so upsetting for her to discuss the most horrible, awful thing that she's ever had to go through then why not tell Heather that she can't/doesn't want to discuss it?  

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Didn't Heather call Bethenny a bitch in one of her TH's?

 

 

Heather called Bethenny a bitch in her TH when Bethenny behaved like one.

 

I think it was about Bethenny's behavior when Heather brought up Kristen being upset about the lack of invitation. 

[ottergirl]

Heather's offering of friendship is the weirdest thing to me. But maybe that is just who Heather is

 

Maybe she gets nervious around Bethenny but the scenes that I have seen from Heather are not those directed to someone wanted to become your friend.

-The jab about giving Luann a car (none of her business)

-The long talking about Ramona's sheenanigans (none of Bethenny's business)

-The information about Kristen's hurt feelings (none of her business)

- The issue she took about Bethenny arriving late when Bethenny did bother to inform the host of the event (Sonja) that she will be arriving late.

- The shorten of Bethenny's name even after Bethenny has told her that she prefers to be called her full name

-The issue of teh nagging questions that only a dear friend should ask.

 

Heather has a child with healtcare issues so the question could also be why did she bothered to do the show when she has so much on her plate? because she needs the promotional opportunities for her brand. In this sense Heather is no different from Bethenny, the difference to me is who is real and who is fake.

 

IMO Heather is fakely crafting a story line of issues with Bethenny were she pushes and prods and then when Bethenny reacts then Heather acts hurt and surprised. Very different from Dorinda who is giving us her personal story and who doesn't make a big deal out of stupid things because she doesn't need to. Bethenny called Dorinda and apologized for not being able to go to her house and Dorinda reacted like a normal person, she didn't go off about how hurt she was that Bethenny was not coming, she understood perfectly because the reason was perfectly understandable.

 

Dorinda is not going around trying to push her way into a new friendship with Bethenny as part of her story line, she has her own story line and I am enjoying seeing her real issues. Heather so far has given me nothing except the fact that she likes to focus on other people's problems as her storyline, (pretty much ala Kenya Moore) , if you are going to go onto reality TV show us your real life, your problems. What we have seen so far of Heather is her issues with Sonja, her issues with Bethenny, her love for Carol, her defense of Kristen, nothing about her at all. It makes me wonder if Heather has anything real to offer this season, just from her and not related to any of her castmates.

 

I totally agree with you that as the show is being aired, that's all we have.  But is that Heather's fault?  We have no idea what Heather is offering - only what Bravo is airing.  So far this season, Bravo is primarily focused on Bethenny and All Things Bethenny.  Secondarily, they're doing Dorinda including John and Hannah; Sonja's craziness; Carole's dating; to a much lesser degree Ramona's coping with divorce; and nothing with Heather or Kristen.  Luann has had slightly more camera time because Bethenny has been willing to interact with her, especially in Miami.

 

This doesn't mean that Heather didn't offer them her own storylines - just that they didn't choose to include them.  Might be because what Heather offered was boring - I think it's a bit more likely that it just didn't fit the narrative Andy wanted for the season.  We've all often said that the Lost Footage episodes are more interesting than the regular season ones.  Personally, I would rather have lost Dorinda and Kristen, so we can get more Heather and even possibly a real Ramona story.  

 

I also think, sadly, Housewives has a horrible track record of showing "real life" stories - they tend to focus just on conflict, unless it's Bethenny, of course.  I never watched OC but I started watching a few back seasons on Hulu, and I was stunned at how much the show has changed - for the worse.  Back in the day, the women dressed normally (they wore jeans and tee shirts to reunions!!!), they interacted normally, they had real lives.  Gosh, I wish at least one franchise still did that.  With Heather, I believe (and I know this isn't universal)  they could show a real integrated story - like they did with Bethenny, in the early days - and I'm disappointed they're not going that way.  

 

But the one thing I think we can't fairly do is blame Heather for what Bravo chooses to air of her.  She has no influence on that.  Right now, the only Heather scenes Bravo wants to show are the ones where she flunks Chemistry 101 with Bethenny and where she refuses to drink the Sexy Sonja kool aid.  I hate that but I can't change it.  I also think that anyone who started watching the show this season would have no reason to like Heather.  But having seen her for a few seasons, and knowing Bravo and Andy as I do, I just see a different narrative in play.  

[Trooper York]

Hey if we are having an election for which Housewife most resembles a board.....then even I would vote for Carole. Just sayn'

[WireWrap]

I totally agree with you that as the show is being aired, that's all we have.  But is that Heather's fault?  We have no idea what Heather is offering - only what Bravo is airing.  So far this season, Bravo is primarily focused on Bethenny and All Things Bethenny.  Secondarily, they're doing Dorinda including John and Hannah; Sonja's craziness; Carole's dating; to a much lesser degree Ramona's coping with divorce; and nothing with Heather or Kristen.  Luann has had slightly more camera time because Bethenny has been willing to interact with her, especially in Miami.

 

This doesn't mean that Heather didn't offer them her own storylines - just that they didn't choose to include them.  Might be because what Heather offered was boring - I think it's a bit more likely that it just didn't fit the narrative Andy wanted for the season.  We've all often said that the Lost Footage episodes are more interesting than the regular season ones.  Personally, I would rather have lost Dorinda and Kristen, so we can get more Heather and even possibly a real Ramona story.  

 

I also think, sadly, Housewives has a horrible track record of showing "real life" stories - they tend to focus just on conflict, unless it's Bethenny, of course.  I never watched OC but I started watching a few back seasons on Hulu, and I was stunned at how much the show has changed - for the worse.  Back in the day, the women dressed normally (they wore jeans and tee shirts to reunions!!!), they interacted normally, they had real lives.  Gosh, I wish at least one franchise still did that.  With Heather, I believe (and I know this isn't universal)  they could show a real integrated story - like they did with Bethenny, in the early days - and I'm disappointed they're not going that way.  

 

But the one thing I think we can't fairly do is blame Heather for what Bravo chooses to air of her.  She has no influence on that.  Right now, the only Heather scenes Bravo wants to show are the ones where she flunks Chemistry 101 with Bethenny and where she refuses to drink the Sexy Sonja kool aid.  I hate that but I can't change it.  I also think that anyone who started watching the show this season would have no reason to like Heather.  But having seen her for a few seasons, and knowing Bravo and Andy as I do, I just see a different narrative in play.  

I agree. IMO, Andy decided that this season would be the "Redemption of Bethenny" show, not the "Real Housewives of NY" show. I find that sad. JMO

[Leroux]

I totally agree with you that as the show is being aired, that's all we have.  But is that Heather's fault?  We have no idea what Heather is offering - only what Bravo is airing.  So far this season, Bravo is primarily focused on Bethenny and All Things Bethenny.  Secondarily, they're doing Dorinda including John and Hannah; Sonja's craziness; Carole's dating; to a much lesser degree Ramona's coping with divorce; and nothing with Heather or Kristen.  Luann has had slightly more camera time because Bethenny has been willing to interact with her, especially in Miami.

 

This doesn't mean that Heather didn't offer them her own storylines - just that they didn't choose to include them.  Might be because what Heather offered was boring - I think it's a bit more likely that it just didn't fit the narrative Andy wanted for the season.  We've all often said that the Lost Footage episodes are more interesting than the regular season ones.  Personally, I would rather have lost Dorinda and Kristen, so we can get more Heather and even possibly a real Ramona story.  

 

I also think, sadly, Housewives has a horrible track record of showing "real life" stories - they tend to focus just on conflict, unless it's Bethenny, of course.  I never watched OC but I started watching a few back seasons on Hulu, and I was stunned at how much the show has changed - for the worse.  Back in the day, the women dressed normally (they wore jeans and tee shirts to reunions!!!), they interacted normally, they had real lives.  Gosh, I wish at least one franchise still did that.  With Heather, I believe (and I know this isn't universal)  they could show a real integrated story - like they did with Bethenny, in the early days - and I'm disappointed they're not going that way.  

 

But the one thing I think we can't fairly do is blame Heather for what Bravo chooses to air of her.  She has no influence on that.  Right now, the only Heather scenes Bravo wants to show are the ones where she flunks Chemistry 101 with Bethenny and where she refuses to drink the Sexy Sonja kool aid.  I hate that but I can't change it.  I also think that anyone who started watching the show this season would have no reason to like Heather.  But having seen her for a few seasons, and knowing Bravo and Andy as I do, I just see a different narrative in play.  

 

I do believe that if Heather would have some compelling story to offer then they would air it.

 

So far all we have is her conflict with other ladies because that is what she has done, Heather has proclaimed herself the voice of her castmates, she talks on Kristen's behalf, Carole'e behalf as if they can't talk for themselves.

She has chosen to give backhanded compliments to her castmates, those backhanded compliments have generated arguments and she is a veteran who knows that arguments will sell far more than anything. She has chosen to be petty about Sonja but instead of owning it she chooses to try to disguise it as actual care and concern. Then gets mad when somebody point this out to her.

 

Heather is riding this season on the back of her castmates, she is giving us nothing personal and if that is the case kudos to her , it has worked like a charm for Kenya and it will work for Heather , but then don't go all upset when your castmates do not want to get personal with you either.

[The Mighty Peanut]

What strikes me as interesting is that I agree Beth is a bit threatened by Heather because she sees her as an equal and/or superior in terms of business savvy, but she's dismissive of Kristen for, IMO, having a fluffy job and a husband who pays the bills.

Sonja she plays mother to, she has a tumultuous but mutually respectful relationship with Lu through shared experiences and history, and Ramona is kind of an entity unto herself. Her new friends are Carol and Dorinda -- both successful, but also both older and type B (in comparison to Beth, anyway).

So, her friends are financial equals but not competitive with her in business or in youth. Hence, not threats.

Edited May 28, 2015 by The Mighty Peanut

[Celia Rubenstein]

Heather is riding this season on the back of her castmates, she is giving us nothing personal and if that is the case kudos to her , it has worked like a charm for Kenya and it will work for Heather , but then don't go all upset when your castmates do not want to get personal with you either.

 

 

Did you just dare to compare Heather to KENYA?!?!  bwahahaaha!  I love it!  

[ghoulina]

I don't believe Heather asking what is the visitation schedule is necessarily that bad, although I do think it's a little intrusive. The response of, "that's not fair, you gotta fix that" is extremely rude and obnoxious IMO. In fact, it's Bethenny level rude and obnoxious to me.

 

I did find that rude as well. It would be one thing to say" Well, that sucks" or "That sounds pretty unfair". But the "you gotta fix that" almost seems to imply Bethenny isn't doing enough to make the situation right. If I was battling like crazy with my ex in court, I probably wouldn't be too keen on being told what to do. 

[motorcitymom65]

I do believe that if Heather would have some compelling story to offer then they would air it.

 

 

I think that if Heather didn't have an interesting story that she would have been demoted. She would have faced the same fate as Lu and Porsha did, and the fate that Andy publicly threatened Vicki with if she didn't tell the true story of what was going on in her life (Brooks). They didn't want to share or bring the storylines so they were demoted, or threatened. I would imagine that Heather filmed some stuff that simply didn't fit into the narrative of the season. It doesn't mean it wasn't interesting. Does anyone actually think that the shitstorm we saw over on the BH show was the best they had? No way, but that was the story they went with. 

 

The thing is the story this season has become about Heather being unpleasant in some manner. Being hard for Beth to take, or being mean to Sonja. It is all kind of ridiculous. If you watch the scene again with the custody stuff, Sonja is standing not far from them and she is listening and throwing in a few words as well. That wasn't focused on, but it sounds like there was a larger conversation there. The focus is on Heather being aggressive. We only saw Heather say out loud anything negative about Sonja and her magazine deal, although almost all of the girls have hammered away at her in their TH interviews. Does anyone really believe that the other ladies were not saying snarky things about Sonja and her "enterprises" out loud, vs. only in their TH's? I think that idea is crazy. Based on their own experiences with her they were probably all saying things about this latest venture of hers, but we only saw Heather actually say anything kind of nasty. That is because that is the narrative of the season. Heather is bossy (she is) and she is nasty. Others might be just as nasty but it was decided that the focus would be on Heather. The 3rd season edit. She should have been prepared for it, but somehow I don't think she was.

 

ETA: On Twitter last night someone asked Carole why Heather would presume to talk to Beth about her custody issues, or something like that, and Carole responded (paraphrasing) with: "because she has talked about them a lot". I was happy when I read that, because it seemed like Carole was sticking up for Heather, who is getting hammered over on Twitter about this. Unhappily, I noticed that today it has been removed. 

Edited May 28, 2015 by motorcitymom65

[beaker73]

Heather called Bethenny a bitch in her TH when Bethenny behaved like one.

 

I think it was about Bethenny's behavior when Heather brought up Kristen being upset about the lack of invitation. 

Yep.  Beth said she was bored and pretended to snore.  So, yeah, she was being a bitch.  

[Trooper York]

I know it is just like "Eight is Enough!" I thought they should have got rid of a couple of those kids. Man they were boring.

 

You know Andy Cohen does sort of remind you of Dick Van Patten. Just sayn'

[shoegal]

Heather called Bethenny a bitch in her TH when Bethenny behaved like one.

I think it was about Bethenny's behavior when Heather brought up Kristen being upset about the lack of invitation.

You mean when Heather tried to get up in Bethenny's shit again about a non issue that wasn't even her business?

What a bitch! She didn't treat my nosy, inappropriate scolding with the reverence it deserved!

Edited May 28, 2015 by shoegal

[kassa]

As far as Bethenny, the idea that she should pay Jason as much as he wants to make him go away feels a little but like 'lay back and take it'. It doesn't sit well with me.

 

 

To clarify, when I said she could make it all go away by settling, I didn't mean "lay back and take it."  I meant that at some point if your life is a living hell because of ongoing litigation (which itself is costing you hundreds of thousands of dollars), and you are worried about the ongoing stress of the situation impacting your young child, and the amount of money being contested is realistically speaking not going to greatly impact your standard of living, you might make a strategic decision to stop the madness.

 

That's the way life goes sometimes.  Businesses/marriages fail and you take a big financial hit in order to clear the decks and move on with your life.  All of this could have been avoided with a prenup.  Or a willingness on both sides to accept mediation.  

[sheetmoss]

Yes, because after Prada, Armani, Calvin Klein, Karl Lagerfeld, Versace, I'm thinking: Sonja Morgan.

Heather was the creative director behind J. Lo's couture line, and even that didn't make the cut at high-end stores. Celebrity lines, ie. the Kardashians, Jaclyn Smith, Kathy Ireland, etc. are sold at stores like - you guessed it - K-Mart. Heather was (and is still is) in the business - she knows this.

I agree

BTW, Heather sells on HSN.

 

Martha Stewart aspired to high-end too a first and eventually got into Macy's & Penney's.

Sonja Morgan's brand is in her head and to the general public she's a no-name.--Sonja could only hope she's ever that  lucky enough and able to get a rollout like Martha Stewart did w/Kmart.

 

Sidenote on those sniffing at Kmart, shopping channels, etc....that's where the $$ is.  Joan Rivers  jewelry was a big brand at QVC

 

I remember a local talk show poo-pooing a friend who was going on QVC to sell his wares for the first time--it was Lobstergram.com.

He sold something like 125,000 lobsters in the short time he was featured.

Edited May 28, 2015 by sheetmoss

[WireWrap]

I agree

BTW, Heather sells on HSN.

 

Martha Stewart aspired to high-end too a first and eventually got into Macy's & Penney's.

Sonja Morgan's brand is in her head and to the general public she's a no-name.--Sonja could only hope she's ever that  lucky enough able to get a rollout like Martha Stewart did w/Kmart.

 

Sidenote on those sniffing at Kmart, shopping channels, etc....that's where the $$ is.  Joan Rivers  jewelry was a big brand at QVC

 

I remember a local talk show poo-pooing a friend who was going on QVC to sell his wares for the first time--it was Lobstergram.com.

He sold something like 125,000 lobsters in the short time he was featured.

At this point, no one, not 1 store and not 1 shopping channel, has signed up to sell Sonja's clothing line. KMart would be a step up for her IMO.

[shoegal]

To clarify, when I said she could make it all go away by settling, I didn't mean "lay back and take it." I meant that at some point if your life is a living hell because of ongoing litigation (which itself is costing you hundreds of thousands of dollars), and you are worried about the ongoing stress of the situation impacting your young child, and the amount of money being contested is realistically speaking not going to greatly impact your standard of living, you might make a strategic decision to stop the madness.

That's the way life goes sometimes. Businesses/marriages fail and you take a big financial hit in order to clear the decks and move on with your life. All of this could have been avoided with a prenup. Or a willingness on both sides to accept mediation.

There was a prenup. Of course, the other side is why hasn't Jason settled? There seems to be an assumption that Bethenny needs to pay Jason to make this go away and that she's not settling, which I don't think is exactly fair. What if it's Jason that won't settle? I think Jason is looking to take Bethenny for everything and then some.

As I said, I don't believe the issue of dividing the assets is causing Bryn stress. It's the division of the living situation, and that won't be fixed by paying off Jason.

Edited May 28, 2015 by shoegal

[WireWrap]

There was a prenup. Of course, the other side is why hasn't Jason settled? There seems to be an assumption that Bethenny needs to pay Jason to make this go away and that she's not settling, which I don't think is exactly fair. What if it's Jason that won't settle? I think Jason is looking to take Bethenny for everything and then some.

As I said, I don't believe the issue of dividing the assets is causing Bryn stress. It's the division of the living situation, and that won't be fixed by paying off Jason.

At this point, both have dug their heels in at the expense of their daughter. They both need to let go, move on and adapt to their new lives so that Bryn can settle down and be as stress free as any normal preschooler can be. Both Bethenny and Jason need to move on.

[LotusFlower]

There was a prenup. Of course, the other side is why hasn't Jason settled? There seems to be an assumption that Bethenny needs to pay Jason to make this go away and that she's not settling, which I don't think is exactly fair. What if it's Jason that won't settle? I think Jason is looking to take Bethenny for everything and then some.

In one of Bethenny's scenes at her therapist's office, there was a close-up of the doctor's notebook, and his notes said something to the effect of: Jason accepting (or not) the offer. I can't believe showing that was an accident. That being said, I think she probably did make an offer, as the last thing she wants is a public trial. But it could have been a low offer. Or a fair one. Who knows. My feeling is the pre-nup should be honored. But I just don't get how the apt. stuff factors into all this (as they bought the apt. together after they got married).

[shoegal]

I believe the apartment figures in because it was bought by Bethenny with SkinnyGirl money. They may have purchased it while they were married, but I'm doubting Jason contributed one red cent. Which is why he needed to be "trustee". I believe that without that trust, the apartment falls into the terms of the prenup.

But this is off topic and rehashing over and over things that have been discussed in Bethenny's thread. My only point is that assuming Bethenny could settle and make it go away and she isn't is something that is unknown, and I think, unfair.

[Celia Rubenstein]

You mean when Heather tried to get up in Bethenny's shit again about a non issue that wasn't even her business?

What a bitch! She didn't treat my nosy, inappropriate scolding with the reverence it deserved!

 

This made me laugh until it hurt. Because I can actually picture Heather saying this to herself, all full of indignation.   But you need to add more profanity.  Heather would use a lot more profanity.  Because it is super frustrating when your carefully laid plan to make yourself relevant at someone else's expense gets foiled.  

[shoegal]

This made me laugh until it hurt. Because I can actually picture Heather saying this to herself, all full of indignation.   But you need to add more profanity.  Heather would use a lot more profanity.  Because it is super frustrating when your carefully laid plan to make yourself relevant at someone else's expense gets foiled.

Here you go ;)

What a bitch! She didn't treat my nosy, inappropriate scolding with the reverence it deserved, motherfucker! Holla!

[RedHawk]

Oh yeah, Heather was so disingenuous: "What's wrong with K-Mart?" Yeah, as if Yummie Tummie would be sold there.

 

 

It's not? Huh.

 

Funniest moment for me by far was Heather telling Bethenny about her totally stupid tattoo idea and Bethenny saying, "Cool" with a big smile and then an immediate TH with Bethenny saying just "No". 

Edited May 28, 2015 by RedHawk

[Celia Rubenstein]

Here you go ;)

What a bitch! She didn't treat my nosy, inappropriate scolding with the reverence it deserved, motherfucker! Holla!

 

That's good, but I need more "motherfucker." And more cowbell.  More cowbell would be good, too. 

 

Seriously, Heather can string the "fucking motherfucking fucker" together like no one else.  Not everyone can do that and still sound ladylike.  But I think Heather is awesome at it, like some kind of swear word savant.  Holla! 

Edited May 28, 2015 by Celia Rubenstein

[imjagain]

This was so revealing. Jealousy - table for one! The show sounded exactly up Bethenny's alley, as she clearly sees herself as a successful and famous entrepreneur/business mogul, and yet Heather got the gig, not her, so she had to make fun of it. Not only that, but she quickly changed the subject. I think that she's so accustomed to being the star, that someone else's success seems to steal her spotlight, or threatens her.

Exactly.

You know she would have jumped at it had they called her. And that would be fine because as you said it's right up her alley. It's the making fun and snarking on every damn thing Heather does, that is annoying. The fact that we get to have a Beth TH after all her scenes to explain to us how and what Heather did wrong is bs imo.

I don't care if Beth hates Heather but damn calm down at least let the fight/fued make sense.

I didn't like when Carole did it to Lu and I didn't like it when Carlton did it Kyle in BH.

When a housewife comes in with guns aimed at another housewife and we're left with wtf is the matter here, it's not fun for me.

[LotusFlower]

I believe the apartment figures in because it was bought by Bethenny with SkinnyGirl money. They may have purchased it while they were married, but I'm doubting Jason contributed one red cent. Which is why he needed to be "trustee". I believe that without that trust, the apartment falls into the terms of the prenup.

He was named trustee for reasons not related to who bought the apt. But. I agree that removing him as trustee allows Bethenny to claim the apt. if this language is in the prenup.

[ButterQueen]

The reason we the viewers don't see Bethenny missing events is that they only show events to which Bethenny shows up.  Kristen, for instance, has said in her blog that she invited Bethenny to a number of activities and Bethenny declined them all.  I find it really hard to believe that at this point in the season Heather, for instance, hasn't hosted any events or activities - but we haven't seen any on camera.   Also, it's worth noting that everyone agrees Bethenny hasn't been attending many cast activities - even Bethenny.  The dynamic is pretty clear - if Bethenny doesn't come to your activity, it won't make it on camera, and Bethenny hasn't been coming to any of the "new" cast member events.  I'm trying to think of anything hosted by Kristen/Heather/Carole/Dorinda that Bethenny has attended - the "election party" is the first one I can think of.  She just isn't showing up.  She goes to things for Sonja (a lot), and Ramona and Luann a bit, but for everyone else?  Nada enchilada.  

 

As for Heather and Bethenny, I agree - the conversations between them have just been awkward.  The "get Luann a car!' joke was awkward, the "you hurt Kristen's feelings" was awkward, it has all been off and uncomfortable to watch.  But I'm wondering who is at fault here.  Heather can come on too strong - for sure.  But she is TRYING.  She is really trying.  Every conversational gambit she has started with Bethenny has been shut down or dismissed - and it's a long list.   She's tried talking about how they each started their businesses through friends  ("I owe Luann a car?  I don't think so,") , she's tried talking about other cast mates' feelings ("snoring"), she's tried talking about her own business stuff (the MSNBC show, which Bethenny pretended not to understand), she's tried empathizing with Bethenny's child care issues (that's too personal, although Bethenny has discussed it nonstop), she's tried talking about a tattoo ("no").  And then add to that, all the things they are not allowed to discuss, most importantly, the serious boyfriend she doesn't want on camera because --- she doesn't want him on camera, and she's Bethenny, and she gets to decide.  

 

Meanwhile, what has Bethenny done to try to connect with Heather? Other than dismissing and shutting down every attempt to bond?  Literally - has she asked Heather one question about HER life?  Her family? Her business?  Has she attended an activity of Heather's?  All I see here is one person attempting - a little awkwardly - to make conversation/strike up a friendship, and one person shutting her down. And you know, it might not be so awkward if Bethenny would join in.  Heather's trying to play conversational tennis, and it's not working, but is it her fault for a bad serve, or Bethenny's fault for just standing there on the other side of the net letting all the balls drop and not even trying to return volley?   Until I see Bethenny try, at least a little bit, I'm not going to give Heather a hard time for being awkward about it.  We haven't seen her with a track record of having a hard time connecting with people - that's all on Bethenny.  

 

It's pretty clear what's going on behind the scenes here.  Bethenny was informed - on camera by Luann, and OFF camera by I am quite certain many producers including Andy - that her refusal to engage with the girls was making her look bad.  So she decided to reach out to ONE of them - and which one did she choose?  Shocker!! The one who is Andy's off-camera real life friend!  Now she can't get criticized by anyone for being snobbish and rude because hey, look, she and Carole are real friends!  It's even on Instagram!!  

 

I kind of wish Carole wouldn't go along with it, but Carole is probably too stoned to really get what's going on, and also, Carole doesn't care about anything.  (I say that not meanly - Carole is a roll with the punches girl, who doesn't get worked up about much at all, and after what she went through, I totally get that.)  

 

And can I, finally, say one other thing I like about Heather?  For all that Sonja and Bethenny and Ramona have been carrying on about their personal hardships, especially Bethenny, who says pretty much EVERY SINGLE EPISODE that "nobody knows the trouble I've seen," we've got Heather, who is dealing with a real life serious health situation WITH HER CHILD, which is pretty much the most horrible thing I can think of in life, and has never once used that as an excuse for not showing up, for being difficult or nasty, or anything. All she's done is express gratitude for liver transplants, raise money, be thankful for her kid, try to help him, etc.   Hey Bethenny - that's what being tough looks like.  Take notes.  And maybe, JUST ONCE, try to reciprocate just a little bit Heather's offer of friendship, even just to be polite.

I couldn't have said it better......thank you!!

[izabella]

I feel like Dorinda and Kristen were kind of tacked on to the cast. Eight is really too many for a 40 minute show, especially when Beth makes stipulations about filming with the group. I can't remember ever seeing Kristen during this episode. Was she at Carole's election party? Where was she this epi? I just remember the snacks and Beth's weird space sweater with Saturn on it (Davina from MAFS, who is kind of her sister from another mister, would've loved that, lol)

 

Kristin was at Sonja's magazine party, and took her aside to apologize for being mean to her about her delusions.  And that annoyed me to no end because no one should be feeding into Sonja's delusions of running an Affordable International Luxury Lifestyle Brands Empire.

[goofygirl]

If Satan Andy thought this season of RHONY was going to be Beth's resurrection tour, shouldn't he have TOLD Beth she needed to play NICE with the other Howives?

Plus, I agree with the idea that 8 Howives is about two too many. It IS like Eight is Enough. Just lots worse.

Edited May 29, 2015 by goofygirl

[izabella]

I'm still puzzled by the fact that Sonja has a large Latin fandom. Is she Latina??

 

No, she's isn't.  I read this article and I still have no idea why they have her on their cover.  Apparently, it's Latino Show Magazine, not Latina Magazine.

http://www.latinpost.com/articles/27699/20141214/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-real-housewives-of-new-york-bravo-new-york-sonja-morgan-latino-show-magazine-latin-luxury-magazine-bethany-frankel.htm

 

"We have Colombian owners, we started with the purpose of having the woman as audience. An international woman who is elegant, independent, who is a trendsetter and she wants to have an exquisite fashion style. We cover fashion, beauty and lifestyle," Cesar Flores, the publisher of Latino Show Magazine told Latin Post.

Why did Latino Show Magazine choose to have Morgan grace its cover for "The Anniversary Issue?"

"Based on our audience, and all of those traits that I described, we felt that Sonja had met all of that criteria," Flores added. "The opportunity presented itself and we said what better opportunity than this and we took it."

 

[jaync]

I would like to have seen footage of Heather at the taping of the business show, but that obviously would've cut into Beth's whinefest time.

 

Is she Latina??

Doubtful, but she's probably had a Latin in her a time or two.

 

[LotusFlower]

I'm still puzzled by the fact that Sonja has a large Latin fandom. Is she Latina??

I think I read in someone's blog that one of the "designers" of Sonja's so-called collection is Latino. I know - a stretch. I think they just needed a cover. And look how much exposure they're getting?

If Satan Andy thought this season of RHONY was going to be Beth's resurrection tour, shouldn't he have TOLD Beth she needed to play NICE with the other Howives?

I think he thought Bethenny would resurrect RHONY, not the other way around. He loves her attitude, and is loving every second of her on the show, including (and especially?) her snark and sharp tongue.

[NYCFree]

I'm thinking the cover went to the highest bidder of a two page spread.

Some smaller magazines determine editorial content mainly by advertising content.

[BettyPoz]

This is what I feel like on Tuesday nights at 9pm these days "oh oh Bethenny's talking? oh snore snore, wake me up when you're done whining"  Gahhhh.....I've said it before and I'll say it again - I was SO HAPPY seeing previews of the season starting, I was literally rubbing my hands together with glee and now it it just one big Bethenny snore fest.

[MatildaMoody]

It must be hard to adjust to the cameras the first time around. Finding out things like this on camera--I don't know, I feel like I'd be mortified. 

 

I will say that I appreciated that Luann could at least sort of own that she'd said something unlike Ramona who suffers from some sort of disease when it comes to rarely being able to admit any wrongdoing. I agree with those who don't think Ramona has changed at all she'd just been taken down a few pegs. She's just as thoughtless, insensitive, obnoxious, and selfish as she's always been. Sure I feel sorry for her for what happened with Mario, but I can't ignore the way that she treats people whether we're talking about co-workers, friends, employees, or family.

While I agree that Ramona has not changed. This is the first time that I thought she truly couldn't admit that she was wrong. And maybe it is just a new stage of Housewives for me. One of the things that I always loved and hated about Ramona was how easily she could go for the jugular when she felt she was being attacked. The best example I can think of was her and Bethenny on the Brooklyn Bridge. Yes, everything that Ramona said to Bethenny turned out to be true, but at the same time, it was this completely unprovoked attack. Ramona said that Bethenny had to be behind the stories about Jill and Bethenny being on the outs because Bethenny courts the media. Bethenny said that her courting of the media helped Ramona's business because she [bethenny] got Ramona a bunch of new followers, and Ramona blew up at her and said all of the things about Bethenny only having Jason and how he would leave her too - all the while Ramona was wearing a True Faith t-shirt. But, the second that Ramona realized that Bethenny was really hurt and worried about her father and whether or not Jason would leave her, Ramona backed off.

 

I thought that was a turning point for Ramona. I realize now that it was editing because who knows what other horrible things Ramona said to Bethenny during that season. But, Ramona was all about trying to be there for Bethenny after that Brooklyn Bridge argument. Honestly, I thought that Ramona escorting Jill out of Scary Island was more about Bethenny than it was about Alex; I just assumed Alex was the easy scapegoat for the editors - it was easy to make it about Alex's reaction to Jill showing up rather than Bethenny or Ramona's - Ramona and Bethenny each had things to say to Jill while Alex could only hyperventilate (So much easier to edit).

 

But, Ramona has always, ALWAYS been the one who would spill the real life beans on camera when it came to the other women. Everyone always comes down on Ramona for what she said about Luann during Luann's divorce. Some people even hold it up as comeuppance with what Ramona is going through with Mario. But, honestly, all Ramona ever said on camera (mostly during phone calls with Jill) was that Luann wasn't alone or lonely, because she was cheating just as much as the count. But it was true. It was just as true as Ramona telling Bethenny that she and Jason were not going to make it. 

 

If Bethenny was once our Greek Chorus, Ramona was always our Pandora. She told all of the bad stuff that was going to happen and she was hated for it. 

 

I feel the same way about what she is saying about John and Dorinda. I wish Ramona were better able to woman up and own whatever she said about John behind Dorinda's back. But, it doesn't change the fact that there is something simmering between John and Dorinda and Ramona knows what it is. Dorinda does seem to have issues with John that she won't discuss on camera. Who knows if it is as superficial as Ramona makes it (not living in Manhattan) or if Dorinda has shared something that she truly fears when it comes to her relationship with John and Ramona just hasn't blurted it out yet?

 

I have a love hate relationship with Ramona. I hate that she has no tact when talking to people (even though I think she has provided the most entertaining moments over the seasons because of it). I HATE that she refuses to allow me as a viewer into what is really going on with Mario. But, I LOVE the fact that when Ramona does spill the tea, she is usually right on point. So, I am enjoying this season simply because I know Ramona is going to say something that is going to end up being true.  I am also loving this season because, once again, it has moved me away from the darkness of the other franchises.

 

Even Kristen doesn't bother me. It's nice to have a nice bland scene as a palette cleanser between the dramatic scenes. And let's face it, if the most dramatic thing that happens is a tense moment between Heather and Bethenny, or Bethenny snapping at her make believe therapist, I am so in. So much more fun than dealing with addiction or mental illness or physical illness.

[zoeysmom]

Hi Matilda-Ramona's biggest downfall has always been holding every man/husband to her precious Mario's standard. Mario is good looking, successful and a good father and he got tired of being with Ramona. He was a fink and a cad.  Jill and Luann threw it Ramona's face at a Reunion years ago.  Ramona needs to stop grading other men on the Mario standard.  She still lives with him.

Edited May 29, 2015 by zoeysmom

[zoeysmom]

Also, why the hell is she bringing him food? That household just be so strange. I bet we don't know the half of it.

They are still together

[hoodooznoodooz]

I haven't seen every episode this season and I'm behind on the threads but does something seem off about Dorinda's voice to anyone else? She sounds sort of slurry to me like she takes a lot of pills. I don't know, I just get that constantly medicated vibe.

I posted the same regarding Dorinda's slurring on the First Looks thread. I am glad I am not the only one who noticed. Edited May 29, 2015 by hoodooznoodooz

[The Mighty Peanut]

I'm rewatching (don't judge) and LOL'd for the second time when Ramona said, "It's over! Door-gate."

[maggiemae]

If I were Bethenny I still wouldn't want to "chat" with someone that I didn't know well (more of an acquaintance or co-worker) about personal issues....even if it was all over social media. Let alone settled.

 

Unfortunately with the high rate of divorce many, many children are left to this fate. Living with parents fighting constantly can't be much of  better option.

 

I think B should settle but in a compromising way for the sake of Bryn and her husband for the same reason. And not dig her heels in for years with all the bitterness and harm to Bryn.

[missy jo]

The editing to make Bethenny sympathetic has become so obvious and heavy handed that I just can't enjoy the show.  Forget the very very obvious "Scenes With A Therapist" in which we get to watch Bethenny make excuses for her rotten behavior based on having been abused as a child.  There's all these other things, too, more subtle - one way the editors control the narrative is which housewife gets a talking head in a confrontation scene.  Whenever there is a confrontation scene with Bethenny and Heather, lately, the talking heads are ONLY from Bethenny's perspective.  So last night, when Heather and Bethenny were interacting, ONLY Bethenny explained the conversation - so it was all from her point of view.  Same with all of Bethenny's interactions with the women.  Bethenny fights with Sonja?  Only Bethenny narrates.  Bethenny fights with Heather?  Only Bethenny narrates.  Bethenny dismisses Kristen?  Only Bethenny narrates.

 

 

I'm with you 100%, ottergirl. That's a great point about the TH's. We only got to hear how offended Beth was about Heather asking her about custody, and not any comment from Heather.

 

Plus, I guarantee you that Beth is the one who brought it up. How else would it even come up? "Hey Momma, I heard you never see your kid. Tell me ALL about it!"

 

I like Heather and I'm really bummed that she's getting the bitch edit this season.

Edited May 29, 2015 by missy jo

[motorcitymom65]

If I were Bethenny I still wouldn't want to "chat" with someone that I didn't know well (more of an acquaintance or co-worker) about personal issues....even if it was all over social media..

Except that it's not just over social media. She has already discussed it on the show, including the very first episode where she talked about it with Fredrik, who later said that he doesn't know her well. Lu also talked about it in her blog this week. She said Beth has talked about it and that it is complex.

[maggiemae]

motorcitymom - good points and true.

 

But I still wouldn't want to chat about it with someone I didn't care for or know well  at a gathering. Perhaps a real friend though. 

 

Which gets me right back to Bethenny needs to get this settled and move on without the bitterness.

[ivygirl]

I'm rewatching (don't judge) and LOL'd for the second time when Ramona said, "It's over! Door-gate."

Oh, I'll do you one better: I was just walking down my hall and thought of "Door-Gate," and couldn't stop chuckling.

 

I'm pretty sure "Door-Gate" is my absolute favorite "[Whatever]-Gate," ever. Pair that with Ramona's delivery, and it was gold, Jerry! Gold!

[WireWrap]

motorcitymom - good points and true.

 

But I still wouldn't want to chat about it with someone I didn't care for or know well  at a gathering. Perhaps a real friend though. 

 

Which gets me right back to Bethenny needs to get this settled and move on without the bitterness.

Heather was on Bethenny's talk show, so they did know each other before filming this season began and Bethenny has spoken to Heather about the custody issue before that was filmed. According to all the HWs, by the time that was filmed, she had spoken to all of them about it so her attitude/reaction in her TH as faked for effect/storyline IMO.