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2 minutes ago, badhaggis said:

She was also on the "People Magazine Investigates: Cults" about the Manson family. 

That might be where I saw her story. I hadn't heard it until recently. I heard the others but not hers.

Edited by andromeda331
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I read her story in the print magazine.  She was lucky to get the help she needed and live a decent life.

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15 hours ago, badhaggis said:

She was also on the "People Magazine Investigates: Cults" about the Manson family. 

15 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

That might be where I saw her story. I hadn't heard it until recently. I heard the others but not hers.

I watched that, so it must have been where I got it.  I read "Helter Skelter" in high school, after looking at the legal end of the Manson case in a social studies elective I took on the American Legal System.  Then we discussed it in college during an Abnormal Psych class.  So I'd read a lot, but her story escaped me over the years.  I just can't imagine.

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I finally watched Manson:The Women last night.  It was interesting to see the old news clips and the juxtaposition of the girls young/old.  I lived fairly locally and followed the story from beginning to end (even the parole attempts, the deaths of Sadie and Charlie).  I truly think Sandy and Squeaky should be under some kind of supervision,; even at their age, they are ripe for the plucking by some despicable con-man.  I believe one or both of them would kill if asked.

I'm glad this story was presented with the crime scene photos; the truth of this atrocity should be told to all upcoming generations as a word of caution.

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On a strictly superficial note, I could never understand why so much of the stuff I read over the years referred to Susan Atkins as "pretty".  I always thought she was odd looking, and some of the other girls were prettier.  I can't recall which one, but one of them had been a Homecoming Queen.

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3 minutes ago, Brattinella said:

I finally watched Manson:The Women last night.  It was interesting to see the old news clips and the juxtaposition of the girls young/old.  I lived fairly locally and followed the story from beginning to end (even the parole attempts, the deaths of Sadie and Charlie).  I truly think Sandy and Squeaky should be under some kind of supervision,; even at their age, they are ripe for the plucking by some despicable con-man.  I believe one or both of them would kill if asked.

I'm glad this story was presented with the crime scene photos; the truth of this atrocity should be told to all upcoming generations as a word of caution.

I agree. I recall the murders from childhood, but, it wasn't until I was a teen that the details came out more.  The movie, Helter Skelter came on tv and even though I only watched a few portions, it terrified me.  I felt haunted by Tate/LaBianca murders for most of my life. Manson was like the Boogie Man to me.  It wasn't until many years later that I actually was able to view it with more objectivity and see Manson and his co-horts as the low life murders they were.  Not some kind of super human being, mythical, magical figure, but, mean, criminally minded, cold hearted, violent, selfish murderers. 

The area where the Tate murders occurred, seemed to carry some folklore about it.  Visitors came, as you will know Brattinella, to gawk at the gate to the estate. There are a couple of foot tours that those who took the walk have posted on You Tube.  This is was BEFORE the place was torn down and completely rebuilt.  The street going up to the gate looks the same though and the light pole is still in the same spot from old photos.  I did read the house number was changed as well.  

Has anyone seen the new movie with Brad Pitt and Dicaprio?  Supposedly, someone in the movie is portraying Sharon Tate.  Isn't it a comedy? How does that work?  It's called Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.  I still have a fascination with Hollywood, so, I may check it out. 

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8 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Has anyone seen the new movie with Brad Pitt and Dicaprio?  Supposedly, someone in the movie is portraying Sharon Tate.  Isn't it a comedy? How does that work?  It's called Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.  I still have a fascination with Hollywood, so, I may check it out. 

From what I understand, it's a mash-up of fantasy and reality.  I have a hard time getting in to movies like that, for some reason.

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1 minute ago, funky-rat said:

From what I understand, it's a mash-up of fantasy and reality.  I have a hard time getting in to movies like that, for some reason.

Hmm.....I'll have to read some reviews I suppose.  I normally like Dicapprio's acting though. 

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36 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Hmm.....I'll have to read some reviews I suppose.  I normally like Dicapprio's acting though. 

I have a friend who saw it and liked it, and one who didn't.  DiCaprio's character isn't a real person, but he interacts with real people and real events that took place.  That's what I find odd, and I think my brain does a disconnect, because I struggle with movies like that.  But that's just me.

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49 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I agree. I recall the murders from childhood, but, it wasn't until I was a teen that the details came out more.  The movie, Helter Skelter came on tv and even though I only watched a few portions, it terrified me.  I felt haunted by Tate/LaBianca murders for most of my life. Manson was like the Boogie Man to me.  It wasn't until many years later that I actually was able to view it with more objectivity and see Manson and his co-horts as the low life murders they were.  Not some kind of super human being, mythical, magical figure, but, mean, criminally minded, cold hearted, violent, selfish murderers. 

The area where the Tate murders occurred, seemed to carry some folklore about it.  Visitors came, as you will know Brattinella, to gawk at the gate to the estate. There are a couple of foot tours that those who took the walk have posted on You Tube.  This is was BEFORE the place was torn down and completely rebuilt.  The street going up to the gate looks the same though and the light pole is still in the same spot from old photos.  I did read the house number was changed as well.  

Has anyone seen the new movie with Brad Pitt and Dicaprio?  Supposedly, someone in the movie is portraying Sharon Tate.  Isn't it a comedy? How does that work?  It's called Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.  I still have a fascination with Hollywood, so, I may check it out. 

It's Margot Robbie playing Tate. I think she is the neighbor of DiCaprio's character. Apparently Sharon's sister loaned the movie jewelry and/or clothing of Sharon's for Robbie to use. 

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52 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

The movie, Helter Skelter came on tv and even though I only watched a few portions, it terrified me.  I felt haunted by Tate/LaBianca murders for most of my life.

Same. I generally enjoy (if that's the word) True Crime shows and reading, but I've always avoided anything Manson related for that reason. The killings were just so demonic. 

I'm contemplating breaking this rule and watching season 2 of Mindhunter, but I might not be up to doing it. 

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3 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

Same. I generally enjoy (if that's the word) True Crime shows and reading, but I've always avoided anything Manson related for that reason. The killings were just so demonic. 

I'm contemplating breaking this rule and watching season 2 of Mindhunter, but I might not be up to doing it. 

I get where you're coming from.  Some years ago, I decided to free myself from Manson.  I saturated myself with the facts and it demystified the whole saga.  He nor that group influence me now.  If I don't watch something about them, it's more due to being oversaturated. I don't really care for the way he and the family are portrayed in the media, either. It's almost like they try to romanticize him and that annoys me. 

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I think for me it boils down to the horror of them stabbing ST in the stomach when she was 8 months pregnant, and ignoring her pleas for mercy. I can't shake that or blot it out. 

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I know. It's brutal.  That's why when I read about those senior ladies dying in prison or trying to get out to die......it doesn't appeal to me.  I think they should remain, since, they really got the death penalty and it was commuted to life sentence. 

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Leslie VanHouten is played by Victoria Pedretti in the movie Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. There is a resemblance.  Dakota Fanning plays Squeaky Frome! 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Van_Houten

Here's the official trailer.  I'm not sure what to make of it.  It seems to be A LOT about the Manson family.  Hmmm.....

Edited by SunnyBeBe
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58 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I get where you're coming from.  Some years ago, I decided to free myself from Manson.  I saturated myself with the facts and it demystified the whole saga.  He nor that group influence me now.  If I don't watch something about them, it's more due to being oversaturated. I don't really care for the way he and the family are portrayed in the media, either. It's almost like they try to romanticize him and that annoys me. 

I agree. As I posted upthread, he was such an ugly unappealing little weasel, it was obvious to me that whatever power he wielded over his followers, wasn't due to "charisma" in any recognizable form. It was, IMO, due to his talents for manipulation which I think were most effective in a face-to-face, one-on-one situation. He had an evil talent for sensing who was vulnerable and how to play on that vulnerability. AFAIK the women he seduced into his cult were all younger than he, and some were quite young indeed. "Snake" was what, 14 or 15 when she joined his cult. 

It's all about as "romantic" as a rattlesnake bite, IMO. 

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Just now, Jeeves said:

I agree. As I posted upthread, he was such an ugly unappealing little weasel, it was obvious to me that whatever power he wielded over his followers, wasn't due to "charisma" in any recognizable form. It was, IMO, due to his talents for manipulation which I think were most effective in a face-to-face, one-on-one situation. He had an evil talent for sensing who was vulnerable and how to play on that vulnerability. AFAIK the women he seduced into his cult were all younger than he, and some were quite young indeed. "Snake" was what, 14 or 15 when she joined his cult. 

It's all about as "romantic" as a rattlesnake bite, IMO. 

I never understood why people did that kind of stuff (romanticized crime).  When we went to Chicago, the souvenir stores were chocked full of stuff with Al Capone's photo on it.  There's nothing romantic about that ugly POS.  Same with Bonnie and Clyde, etc.

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I haven't seen the new movie yet, but I think Margot Robbie was the wrong choice.  She may have worn Sharon's clothes, and she is a pretty girl BUT she can't hold a candle to Sharon Tate.  She was flawless, beautiful, enchanting.  I can't really think of another actress that could do her any justice.  Such a tragedy/horror.

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1 hour ago, Brattinella said:

I haven't seen the new movie yet, but I think Margot Robbie was the wrong choice.  She may have worn Sharon's clothes, and she is a pretty girl BUT she can't hold a candle to Sharon Tate.  She was flawless, beautiful, enchanting.  I can't really think of another actress that could do her any justice.  Such a tragedy/horror.

Apparently, her sister very much approved of it.

https://people.com/movies/sharon-tates-sister-wept-at-margot-robbies-once-upon-a-time-in-hollywood-portrayal/

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5 hours ago, Jeeves said:

I agree. As I posted upthread, he was such an ugly unappealing little weasel, it was obvious to me that whatever power he wielded over his followers, wasn't due to "charisma" in any recognizable form. It was, IMO, due to his talents for manipulation which I think were most effective in a face-to-face, one-on-one situation. He had an evil talent for sensing who was vulnerable and how to play on that vulnerability. AFAIK the women he seduced into his cult were all younger than he, and some were quite young indeed. "Snake" was what, 14 or 15 when she joined his cult. 

It's all about as "romantic" as a rattlesnake bite, IMO. 

Fully agreed on all of this. The romanticism everyone talks about is why I haven't delved much into a lot of documentaries and such about Manson, either. It's one thing to want to try and understand why he did what he did, and how people could be manipulated like that, but giving him this whole mystique just plays right into his hands. 

Anytime I see clips of Manson, I just get creeped out by his eyes. He has perhaps the freakiest-looking set of eyes I've ever seen on somebody. He'd be the picture next to the word "insane" in the dictionary. 

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9 hours ago, funky-rat said:

I watched that, so it must have been where I got it.  I read "Helter Skelter" in high school, after looking at the legal end of the Manson case in a social studies elective I took on the American Legal System.  Then we discussed it in college during an Abnormal Psych class.  So I'd read a lot, but her story escaped me over the years.  I just can't imagine.

For the longest time, the only thing I knew about Helter Skelter, the movie was that there was a swimming pool in the beginning. As soon as it came on, my mom would jump up and change the channel, saying, you don't need to see that. It wasn't too scary when I finally did watch it. 

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For those interested in Once Upon a TIme in Hollywood, I think if you read too many reviews it will give away too much and kind of spoil the experience.

If you've seen Inglourious Basterds (my personal Tarantino favorite) it's a lot like that, taking actual historical events and people and interweaving fictional people and events with them.  A lot of movies do that type of thing, but Tarantino always somehow put a different spin on things.

It (Basterds) is also a good example of the "how can it be a both a comedy and drama at the same time" question.  Some parts are laugh out loud funny, while others are absolutely horrific.

Edited by Sile · Reason: Added some extra thoughts
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5 hours ago, geekgirl921 said:

For the longest time, the only thing I knew about Helter Skelter, the movie was that there was a swimming pool in the beginning. As soon as it came on, my mom would jump up and change the channel, saying, you don't need to see that. It wasn't too scary when I finally did watch it. 

I have the DVD and have never watched it at nighttime. I haven’t read it in years but when I would re-read Helter Skelter, I couldn’t keep it in the bedroom. I think I was 12 when I first read it. I often worried that Charlie knew I was reading it, so he’d break out of jail in California and come to New Jersey to get me.  Many sleepless nights during that period. 

As an adult, he still creeps me out. I can watch a special about him though. 

Edited by Tdoc72
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22 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Leslie VanHouten is played by Victoria Pedretti in the movie Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. There is a resemblance.  Dakota Fanning plays Squeaky Frome! 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Van_Houten

Here's the official trailer.  I'm not sure what to make of it.  It seems to be A LOT about the Manson family.  Hmmm.....

The one I can’t believe is Lena Dunham as Catherine Share. I always thought she stood out as the most attractive of the women, at least physically. 

As for Manson, I think it all boils down to his being able to manipulate people not any attractive qualities. The most chilling story I ever heard about him was that in grade school he had a problem with another boy and he convinced a group of girls in his class to beat the boy up. Then he said he didn’t make them do it, they were responsible for their own actions. Just like he did years later with the Tate-Labianca murders. 

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Last night there was a sad story of a young man murdered by a girlfriend's ex boyfriend. He had catfished the young man to get him to a certain location at night, so he could murder him! (Pretended to be a woman who was interested in him.)  Man, I wish that people would not agree to meet strangers who profess to be "nice" on the internet in nonpublic places.  A nice young man gone way too soon due to a jealous ex-boyfriend. So sad.

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18 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Last night there was a sad story of a young man murdered by a girlfriend's ex boyfriend. He had catfished the young man to get him to a certain location at night, so he could murder him! (Pretended to be a woman who was interested in him.)  Man, I wish that people would not agree to meet strangers who profess to be "nice" on the internet in nonpublic places.  A nice young man gone way too soon due to a jealous ex-boyfriend. So sad.

There were 2 eps of Web Of Lies on the other night that I hadn't seen, and both were so sad, and involved young girls in the earlier days of the internet.  I'd like to think we know better now, but sadly......

The first one was heartbreaking, as the young girl was killed, but the 2nd one was "happier" in that they caught the guy and put him in jail for over 100 years, but he harmed hundreds, if not thousands, of girls in the US, Canada, and the UK.  No one was killed, but they have horrible mental scars, sadly.

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27 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

There were 2 eps of Web Of Lies on the other night that I hadn't seen, and both were so sad, and involved young girls in the earlier days of the internet.  I'd like to think we know better now, but sadly......

The first one was heartbreaking, as the young girl was killed, but the 2nd one was "happier" in that they caught the guy and put him in jail for over 100 years, but he harmed hundreds, if not thousands, of girls in the US, Canada, and the UK.  No one was killed, but they have horrible mental scars, sadly.

I was preparing myself to be angry before they said how much time he got. I was expecting it to be some small amount. I am guessing the extortion part is what actually got him the most time. A friend of my wife’s ex husband got charged with 4 counts of distribution of child pornagraphy and he only got probation. Of course his father was a retired magistrate judge so I am sure that helped him. 

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30 minutes ago, Dbolt said:

I was preparing myself to be angry before they said how much time he got. I was expecting it to be some small amount. I am guessing the extortion part is what actually got him the most time. A friend of my wife’s ex husband got charged with 4 counts of distribution of child pornagraphy and he only got probation. Of course his father was a retired magistrate judge so I am sure that helped him. 

I think the sheer scope of his operation also helped.  That wasn't something that could be explained away simply.  That was a huge operation that involved a ton of planning.

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8 hours ago, Dbolt said:

I was preparing myself to be angry before they said how much time he got. I was expecting it to be some small amount.

Same. I was very pleased to hear he was going to be in jail for a long, long time. What a complete and total scuzzball. 

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Just watched Dark Waters: Murder in the Deep, "What Lies Beneath".  WTAF was up with not.one.single.person saying anything to Karen after being told by her husband that she has cancer.  Not one person, in over 3 years.  Not her very close family, her good friends, no one.  If even one person had done that, she might not have died, because her a**hole of a husband would have been exposed for the lying piece of sh*t that he was.

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On 8/15/2019 at 8:03 AM, funky-rat said:

I think the sheer scope of his operation also helped.  That wasn't something that could be explained away simply.  That was a huge operation that involved a ton of planning.

I think it also helped that he apparently kept very organized and complete records. It really helped that they were able to get to him before he had a chance to delete anything because he essentially provided a lot of the evidence against him.

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17 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

Just watched Dark Waters: Murder in the Deep, "What Lies Beneath".  WTAF was up with not.one.single.person saying anything to Karen after being told by her husband that she has cancer.  Not one person, in over 3 years.  Not her very close family, her good friends, no one.  If even one person had done that, she might not have died, because her a**hole of a husband would have been exposed for the lying piece of sh*t that he was.

This whole story seemed very sketchy to me.  For starters, Chris told the mistress he hadn’t been living with his wife, but hadn’t divorced her.  You mean to tell me in all those years, she never once visited his home and/or the wife never showed up at the boat?  I think it was 6 years total.  Then the wife goes overboard on the deadline for her ultimatum….HMMM!  Surely she heard the story in the news.  I found her a bit off putting. 

Then the wife knew Tracy was working for him, and he seemed to be spending more and more time at work, nothing suspicious there.  Also when the wife found the E-mail, they said she found her  home address and showed a re-enactment of her driving over there, but nothing came of it, so why bother even bringing this up.  Don’t even get me started about the cancer story.  That stinks to high heavens.

I feel a lot of this story has been left out or altered because many things didn’t make a lot of sense.  There are a few other things that didn’t sit right, but I don’t feel like writing a novel, so I’ll just leave it at that. 

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Yep. Was just talking about that documentary series recently.

The episode from last night had me looking up the history of Nodaway County in general, where Skidmore is, and holy hell, they weren't kidding about it having a dark history of violence.. Check out the "Crime" section:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nodaway_County,_Missouri

Edited by Annber03
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Fear Thy Neighbor's new season started a few weeks ago but then it suddenly disappeared from the weekly schedule and new episodes aren't airing. Does anyone know what's up with that?

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11 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Fear Thy Neighbor's new season started a few weeks ago but then it suddenly disappeared from the weekly schedule and new episodes aren't airing. Does anyone know what's up with that?

The show posted on Facebook that it was a special 3-week premiere and that the rest of the new episodes will start airing in November.

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1 hour ago, Luciano said:

The show posted on Facebook that it was a special 3-week premiere and that the rest of the new episodes will start airing in November.

That's - an odd way of doing things, but thanks for letting us know.

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I sent a copy of Helter Skelter to a guy I knew in prison {don't judge} and he told me he and a few other guys were creeped out! {this was political asylum, not criminal}

PSA:  Ted Bendy 2 hr special on ID tonite

eta vol.2--I don't know what happened to the Ted Tapes ,but they seemed to be scrubbed of the air.  

Edited by One Tough Cookie
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There was a two hour Ted Bundy show on Oxygen last night. A repeat from last year. One of those "Snapped: Notorious" things. 

I can remember long ago when "Snapped" was, as its title indicated, a show about women who'd snapped and committed murder, mayhem, or both. It was kind of cheesy and one of my little indulgences. It's come a long way from those days, and really, Oxygen? Ted Bundy didn't "snap." He was a murderous evil psychopath from the get-go. 

**puts away the soapbox**

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On 8/9/2019 at 2:26 AM, Annber03 said:

Anyone else here watching the Sundance documentary "No One Saw a Thing"? It's about the 1981 murder of Ken McElroy in Skidmore, Missouri. He was known as the town bully and had a pretty nasty rap sheet, but never seemed to face any kind of justice for his crimes. So one day, fed up with his constant bullying and evading justice, one or more of the townspeople shot him dead, in broad daylight, with numerous witnesses to the murder standing by. 

And yet in all the years since, nobody has come forward to admit to murdering him, or knowing who committed the murder. Partly out of fear of retribution, partly because practically everyone in that town is glad McElroy is dead and have no interest in punishing whomever did it. Law enforcement doesn't seem to have had much luck, either, and a lot of that, people believe, is due to many of them being involved in the coverup. 

It's a pretty fascinating, and unsettling, story thus far. Based off what they've shared about McElroy's history in the town, I can certainly understand why so many people would want to be rid of him for good. I can even understand the desire to kill him. He definitely seemed like a real scumbag.

At the same time, I'm not exactly a proponent of vigilante justice, and while I could understand the citizens wanting to keep quiet about who murdered him, law enforcement officials absolutely should not be involved in covering up any knowledge of a murder. 

Plus, between this documentary and what I'm reading about the town of Skidmore in general, it just sounds like a really dark, sad place to live, period. These townspeople seem way too fond of or resigned to violence being a means to solve problems, or just being part of living in town, and it's rather disturbing. 

I also can't help but feel bad for McElroy's wife Trina a bit. She was only 14 when she got together with him-apparently the guy had a predilection for very young girls in general (and some of the people being interviewed did not seem all that bothered by that fact, which is...creepy). So I can easily see some of her defense of him as the result of years of any manipulation and grooming he no doubt would've done towards her. And it's one thing for the townspeople to want to take out McElroy himself, but they also apparently tried to harass and threaten Trina and her kids, too. That's not fair or right. 

Anywho, so yeah, if people here haven't seen this yet, I recommend it. And those who have, I'd like to hear your thoughts, too. 

Oh, I believe there was a movie about this case (with McElroy's name changed) called "In Broad Daylight" or something similar.  I think it was a Lifetime movie, so goddess only knows how factual it was, but I enjoyed watching it.  I think I practically cheered when the townsfolk took him out.  

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Ewwwwwwwwwwwww I am watching No One Saw a Thing, it's going on too long for a series, and should have ended with the last episode, but this documentary is freaking me out. These people are absolutely crazy, but I agree he needed to gooooooooooooooo, and his stupid wife too, yeah, I said it, FROM A DISTANCE let me tell ya.  This is what you would call a ROUGH TOWN. 

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I remember when the McElroy shooting came out, and then read the stories about what he had done to so many people in that town.     I think it might have been written up in Rolling Stone?     I found it awful that so little was done to stop him that someone finally had to shoot him.   Whoever pulled the trigger probably save a lot of lives that day, because nothing else would have stopped McElroy.  McElroy's wife remarried, and then died in 2012.  

Edited by CrazyInAlabama
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9 hours ago, Persnickety1 said:

Oh, I believe there was a movie about this case (with McElroy's name changed) called "In Broad Daylight" or something similar.  I think it was a Lifetime movie, so goddess only knows how factual it was, but I enjoyed watching it.  I think I practically cheered when the townsfolk took him out.  

I believe the movie was based on the excellent book first published in 1988, In Broad Daylight, by Harry MacLean. I read it years ago. As I said, an excellent book. But I found it hard to read all the awful things that man did, and got away with for years. As they might say in Texas, IMO, he needed killin'.

Edited by Jeeves
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On 8/13/2019 at 12:34 PM, Melina22 said:

I think for me it boils down to the horror of them stabbing ST in the stomach when she was 8 months pregnant, and ignoring her pleas for mercy. I can't shake that or blot it out. 

Not that it makes things any better but Sharon wasn't stabbed in the stomach.  She was stabbed in the back many times and in the chest and had to watch everyone else be killed before those murdering pieces of shit turned on her.

I will never not believe that Sandra "Blue" Good didn't know that her husband Joel Pugh was going to be murdered.  And I'll never not believe that the Family didn't have something to do with it.  

I watched the Bundy program on Reelz - - apparently there was 2 parts and my DVR only picked up the first part, which was 2 hours.  A relatively good program - -although I don't believe that Linda Healy was his first victim and some of the footage that was shown for Bundy's Utah trial was actually his trial in Florida.  I was frustrated with Rhonda Stapley, who said she felt guilt because she was no longer a virgin after her attack - - NOT because she didn't go to the authorities and quite possibly prevent future deaths.  I mean, she had the name Ted, a light colored VW Bug and the fact that Ted was a student at the Univ of Utah School of Law.  Jesus Christ.  

I need to try to find part 2.

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I gave up on Bundy stuff a while back.  He's like Manson, to me.  He has a mystique, and people always talk about how smart and good looking he was (average to me, but that's just me), and that just makes it sound like someone is trying to minimize what he did.  He got off big-time on talking about his deeds, and I won't give his spirit the satisfaction of listening anymore.  I'm out on Bundy.  

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