S05.E06: Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

[LuciaMia]

 

Poor Tommen. Didn't even have enough gumption to save his wife.

Yeah, like a lot of you, I'm a tad confused on how the Sparrows suddenly have so much power they can arrest a sitting Queen. Being puritanical scolds is one thing....

******

There's certainly no shortage of dead bodies in the House of B&W.  Are they the people who've come for their euthenasia services?

 

During the wedding ceremony, there was quite a long pause after Sansa was asked 'do you take this man?' and i was really hoping she was going to say 'no thanks'.

Add me to the list of folks praying for a really, reeeeaaallly bad end for Ramsay.  Flaying, perhaps?

Edited May 18, 2015 by LuciaMia

[JTMacc99]

The conversation between Baelish and Cersei was really good. I feel like Baelish hinted at her incest. She got a little quiet. 

I don't think there was any hint about it. I think that was a solid counter punch that he could frame in a way that let it sound like he was talking about himself or any of the people who have visited one of his brothels. 

[ShannaB]

I watched OUTLANDER Saturday night.  Ugh!!  I watched GOT last night.  Ugh!!  I don't know if I can get anymore 'squicked' then I am right now. And then I watched PENNY DREDFUL after GOT and I oozed into a despondent puddle on the floor.

 

If your last name is Stark or Frasier, then change it immediately.

[Calamity Jane]

I don't think there was any hint about it. I think that was a solid counter punch that he could frame in a way that let it sound like he was talking about himself or any of the people who have visited one of his brothels. 

This was the one thing that made me wonder if Cersei was actually going to buy everything Littlefinger was selling.  It will be interesting to see!!

[JTMacc99]

This was the one thing that made me wonder if Cersei was actually going to buy everything Littlefinger was selling.  It will be interesting to see!!

Indeed. On the one hand, she's always vengeful and manipulative, and would certainly remember that jab from Littlefinger.

 

On the other hand, the whole "I want to see her head on a spike" excitement may mean she's willing to take her chances with him in order to get what she wants.

[islandgal140]

I watched OUTLANDER Saturday night.  Ugh!!  I watched GOT last night.  Ugh!!  I don't know if I can get anymore 'squicked' then I am right now. And then I watched PENNY DREDFUL after GOT and I oozed into a despondent puddle on the floor.

 

If your last name is Stark or Frasier, then change it immediately.

 

That episode of Outlander is still sitting on my DVR unwatched because I got a spoiler about it and now I don't think I can take it.  Jack Black would be right at home with the Boltons. The Sansa rape came as a complete surprise plus I watch GOT live.  Ohh, gonna watch Penny D later tonight.  Too much good TV on Sundays. 

 

It looked to me like Jorah touched Tyrion. The slavers damn sure touched him too. Jorah is shaping up to be Typhoid Mary or maybe we should call him Stoneman Steve. Why exactly did he want to ride through Valyria? 

[CletusMusashi]

I was hoping Ser Friendstone and Half-Barney would still be in Bedrock this week, but the plot is determined to carry them to Dany as quickly as possible. 

 

And.. holy crap were people giving up easily this week!

Jorah's fighting prowess seems to be whatever the writers want it to be at that particular second. Sneak into town with two other guys and kill an army? No problem. Fight a few guys with swords, half of who were about to take a dump when they came to shore? "I surrender!" 

And the Sand Snakes? What was that?

"Hey you kids! Are you trying to abduct and torture the princess again?"

"Noooo...."

"Then why are you coming at her with all those weapons?"

"Well, okay... maybe a little...but we were just playing..."

"Is there something you'd like to say to Princess Myrcella?"

"We're sorry we tried to abduct and torture you..."

[Boilergal]

The Sand Snakes looked like 6 year olds playing Power Rangers - it was horrible.  There has to be stunt doubles they could put in that would have done A LOT better than that.

 

To me it seemed like Reek/Theon hesitated on the question of his relationship with Sansa.  When he said that he was a ward of the Starks - when I thought it had been said several times that Eddard treated him as a son, part of the family.  Was he trying to downplay his potential loyalty to Sansa?

 

Sansa's dress was beautiful.  I knew something horrible was going to happen on her wedding night, and I am so glad they didn't drag it out and go graphic with it.  I expected Ramsey to torture Sansa, and was greatly relieved that didn't happen.

 

I didn't figure the Arya storyline would be a quick, and I like it.  If after 2 weeks of arrival at the House of B&W, she was out being a faceless, people would complain that it wasn't realistic that she could be trained/transformed that quickly.  I thought it was a good lesson that lies can be easily detected, and you have to be able to lie without conscious to be more than "a girl"

 

I told Margery not to poke at Cersei....if she had only listened.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Boilergal

[Conan Troutman]

To me it seemed like Reek/Theon hesitated on the question of his relationship with Sansa.  When he said that he was a ward of the Starks - when I thought it had been said several times that Eddard treated him as a son, part of the family.  Was he trying to downplay his potential loyalty to Sansa?

 

I thought he was just trying to be technically correct (the best kind of correct). Sansa and Ramsey listed their official titles, so did Theon. Thankfully Dany didn't join in, or the episode would still be going on.

[islandgal140]

Was Arya at 'so you wanna be faceless' orientation told outright not to drink from that fountain? Just seemed like she was given some rags to wear and given a bucket and scrub brush and told to get to scrubbing floors. 

[DarkRaichu]

Was Arya at 'so you wanna be faceless' orientation told outright not to drink from that fountain? Just seemed like she was given some rags to wear and given a bucket and scrub brush and told to get to scrubbing floors. 

Based on their "watch and emulate" curriculum, she wouldn't have been a fit for the program had she not figured out what the well was herself on day 1.

 

This was not a weird teaching methodology by the way.  Some martial art schools let their students figure out the ins and outs of the techniques by themselves, on their own time.

Edited May 18, 2015 by DarkRaichu

[Hanna]

Way too many rapes... not entertaining in the least.

The Arya story line is about beyond saving for me. I just loathe it.

 

Does anyone think that Arya will take on her mother's face???

Edited May 18, 2015 by Hanna

[HumblePi]

I'm so happy to see that Sansa has finally outgrown her immature, shrinking, cowardly adolescent girlhood and has become a strong Stark. When Myranda was taunting Sansa about all of Ramsay's ex-lovers, Sansa showed her Stark strength by saying “I am Sansa Stark of Winterfell. This is my home. And you can’t frighten me.”  I was happy to see that Sansa is no longer a girl that can be manipulated and frightened anymore.

 

Unlike a few other commenters on the rape scene, I wasn't surprised since we all knew that Ramsay is a twisted, sadistic man. I felt that this violence towards Sansa was exactly what Theon needed to witness in order for him to grow a new set of balls to replace the ones he lost to Ramsay. Theon will be pivotal in some way to Sansa's escape from the clutches of Ramsay and Roose Bolton and I'd bet it will be Sansa that vindicates the killings of her brother and mother at the hands of Roose Bolton.

[Lady S.]

The Faith doesn't have to bring Cersei up on accusations of incest necessarily (re: Olenna possibly destroying Tommen/Margaery's claim on the throne if she rats to them), Lancel's testimony alone about THEIR incest (they are cousins) and his help with King Robert's wine is probably plenty to throw her in a cell for the rest of forever. I think the Sparrows may intend to do that in time, but in the meantime are using her as an "in" to get the rotten bits out of the capitol before turning on her.

There's nothing wrong with first-cousin incest here, Lysa wanted to marry Sansa to Robin last season and it wasn't presented as part of her crazyness. The real issue with this cousin coupling is that Cersei only seduced him to help her kill Robert, which is still a pretty big deal in itself.

 

I always thought the other girl was the one from the dog hunt in early season 4. But I'm not really trying to keep track of Ramsey's cruelties or I'd be running out of paper soon...

I know I should be ashamed of keeping up with these things, but this is what comes of learning casting tidbits during the offseason, I doubt I'd have noticed woods girl was called Tansy and was played by a new actress if I wasn't such a spoiler whore.

 

I'm going to disagree, although I clearly see how he is worse in some ways.  Joffrey was a coward, but he was really getting the hang of wielding power in a sadistic way to inflict the pain that made him happy. Eventually he would have done much more damage to far more people than Ramsay, who is a common, everyday psychopath. The fact that he is hands-on as opposed to using an entire team to hurt people should make him a little easier to stop.  It took a ridiculously intricate plot to kill off Joffrey. It should take not much more than slitting his throat the next time he asks Reek to give him a shave to get rid of Ramsay.

Ramsay could one day rule the whole north, and he's already had an army at his command to sack Winterfell. Joffrey was really only interested in small shows like having Sansa beaten in court, Tywin always had the real power and I'm not sure he couldn't have continued that after Joff became an adult since he wasn't really interested in ruling. Roose can't even send Ramsay to bed without supper as Tywin to Joff in 3.10, and Ramsay's already got a body count of close to a hundred which beats Joff's measly two (Ned and Ros) and as bad as Joff's playtime with Sansa's and Ros's whoring partner in 2.04 was, I think beatings are still outdone by flaying, gelding, and being eaten alive by dogs.

 

Sand Snakes are all lame. Worst fight on this show. Whoever directed this one, he/she is just not very good at it. I felt the choreography of the fight could have been pretty good, but whoever was behind the camera was doing a pretty poor job of capturing it all. Maybe this was a necessary limitation due to filming at Jardines del Alcazar? I think that's where they're filming, yes? I was there forever ago, but as a cliché bad American study-abroad teenager. One of the most gorgeous places I have ever seen and I regret that at the time my biggest takeaway from it were ample opportunities to pose looking like you are peeing from the numerous fountains/statues. Anyways...I can kind of see how someone with a camera would have difficulty getting shots. Most of that place can be limited to single-file pathways. I distinctly recall my group having a hard time getting to each other even if we could see/hear each other as there were no easy ways to just cross over to each other; you had to follow the maze or if there were a grander space, it felt implied (and maybe even stated on tiny signs) not to walk in those spaces.

Yes, I think in one of the bts vids it was said they were only granted a short time to shoot in the Alcazar, so I wonder if that contributed to this sl feeling underdeveloped to the point of silliness.

 

If someone told me during the Battle of Blackwater that not only is the guy who Cersei nudged and fell over twice in the women-and-children hideaway going to grow some balls but that Lancel Lannister is an important character, I would have dismissively laughed. That dude is crazy scary and...capable now. I really like the Sparrow/High Septon zealot arc. How do they have the power that they have and from an essentially powerless Cersei who was able to give that to them?

Cersei's powerlessness has been very exaggerated, I think. Tommen is still a kid and a weak and easily manipulated one at that, if Cersei says he signed off on all her decrees, I have no trouble believing he did put thee royal seal on without learning what he was authorizing. Cersei has full control of the council and they're the ones actually doing the governing for Tommen, if you can call it that.

[Conan Troutman]

I felt that this violence towards Sansa was exactly what Theon needed to witness in order for him to grow a new set of balls to replace the ones he lost to Ramsay.

 

I think you're spot on. It sounds strange, but maybe the grand implications of that scene weren't about Sansa at all - she probably knew there was a good chance this wasn't going to be a honeymoon she'd tell her grandchildren about. But that may have been set up to be the final straw that makes Reek snap back to being Theon again, everything else be damned. And it's about time.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

To me it seemed like Reek/Theon hesitated on the question of his relationship with Sansa. When he said that he was a ward of the Starks - when I thought it had been said several times that Eddard treated him as a son, part of the family. Was he trying to downplay his potential loyalty to Sansa?

I thought he was just trying to be technically correct (the best kind of correct). Sansa and Ramsey listed their official titles, so did Theon. Thankfully Dany didn't join in, or the episode would still be going on.

Throw Stannis and Jaquen into the mix and you would have Stannis correcting people's not entirely accurate statements of their titles/relationships and Jaquen giving them a quick whip for it.

Cersei's powerlessness has been very exaggerated, I think. Tommen is still a kid and a weak and easily manipulated one at that, if Cersei says he signed off on all her decrees, I have no trouble believing he did put thee royal seal on without learning what he was authorizing. Cersei has full control of the council and they're the ones actually doing the governing for Tommen, if you can call it that.

ITA - first we saw Cersei and Littlefinger make a deal that Tommen obviously nothing about. At most she told Tommen that Littlefinger would be made warden of the north as she had him sign the royal decree.

Later during the SVU pretrial, when Margaery was being hauled off and yelling Tommen's name, Cersei discreetly put one hand up (behind Tommen) to tell the Kingsguard not to do anything to help the queen.

I think in one of the bts vids it was said they were only granted a short time to shoot in the Alcazar, so I wonder if that contributed to this sl feeling underdeveloped to the point of silliness.

I am 99% sure they said they had one week to shoot there so it was a pretty short amount of time to get all the Water Gardens footage for the entire season.

getting the hang of wielding power in a sadistic way to inflict the pain that made him happy. Eventually he would have done much more damage to far more people than Ramsay, who is a common, everyday psychopath.

I think another big difference between Joffrey and Ramsay is that Joffrey was a spoiled kid just beginning to get the hang of being a sadistic dick while Ramsay is clearly several years ahead of him in practice/experience torturing people. Edited May 18, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Conan Troutman]

I know I should be ashamed of keeping up with these things, but this is what comes of learning casting tidbits during the offseason, I doubt I'd have noticed woods girl was called Tansy and was played by a new actress if I wasn't such a spoiler whore.

 

If you're already one of the nerds, might as well aspire to be the queen of them.

 

Throw Stannis and Jaquen into the mix and you would have Stannis correcting people's not entirely accurate statements of their titles/relationships and Jaquen giving them a quick whip for it.

 

Joffrey: "I'm Joffrey of the House Baratheon...."

Jaquen: *whip*

Jamie: "Hey, don't hit my nephew!"

Jaquen: *whip*

Joffrey: "Jamie, you can't let that happen"

Jamie:"I could care less about what other people think of me."

Stannis: "I couldn't care less about what other people think of me."

Jaquen: *whip*

[LuciaMia]

About the best thing to be said about the Sand Snakes is.....nice outfits!

[spaceytraci1208]

About the best thing to be said about the Sand Snakes is.....nice outfits!

They looked like characters from Mortal Kombat lol

[mojoween]

I got busy last night (ew gross I just read that and that's SO not how I meant it) so couldn't watch until today.

I was crouched under my blanket during the end and after it was over looked up Sophie and Iwan's ages. Poor Iwan. Sophie is 19 now but she wasn't then. Iwan turned 30 on Wednesday.

I mean, we only saw her back after he ripped her dress but the sounds. They haunt me. Theon and I both wanted to throw up.

[Lady S.]

I thought he was just trying to be technically correct (the best kind of correct). Sansa and Ramsey listed their official titles, so did Theon. Thankfully Dany didn't join in, or the episode would still be going on.

Yeah, it'd be pretty rude to call himself the son of the man whose younger sons he supposedly murdered when his official title was 'ward'. And even if Westeros had a formal adoption system (which I doubt) that wasn't what happened with Theon, he was forcibly taken to Winterfell to punish Balon and keep him from rebelling again. I assume Balon would have lost his head as he deserved if he hadn't given up his last son. And back in s1, everyone was quick to remind Theon he wasn't really one of them, Tyrion laughed at him as a Stark lackey, Ros laughed at him when he called himself Ned's ward, Maester Luwin said he was also a guest/prisoner to get him to stop harassing Osha, and even Robb told him he wasn't a member of their House on the day they met Osha when Theon saved Bran's life. I think the hesitation there was because knowing his past in Winterfell was being used to make him part of Sansa's becoming Ramsay's new plaything is more painful for him than using his real name. And then there's the fact that he has to live with the guilt of knowing that Winterfell would still belong to the Starks if it weren't for him, and his bad choices made all this grossness possible, which is probably part of why he was hiding from Sansa before their fun family rehearsal supper.

Reek/Theon's black wedding garb was reminding me of the nice duds Robb died in.

Does LF not even care about his business getting trashed? I assumed that was going to come up.

Tbh, I'm kinda enjoying Marg's little downfall here, she was way too confident after marrying Tommen and turns out you can't rule the world just by manipulating a sheltered pre-teen boy, she needed to at least pop a son out before she was secure as THE Queen. Olenna has what power she has through her son not just her marriage, and Tommen is still Cersei's son. I feel worse for newly-bearded Loras (insert joke about how he already had figurative beards in Sansa and Cersei), it doesn't seem the men in that family are actually expected to be more than figureheads, so can't really blame him for not knowing how to do much more than practice literal sword-fighting and be very indiscreet with his bedroom swordplay, which no one did mind before Cersei helped create the Sparrow Inquisition.

ETA:

Later during the SVU pretrial, when Margaery was being hauled off and yelling Tommen's name, Cersei discreetly put one hand up (behind Tommen) to tell the Kingsguard not to do anything to help the queen.

Oo, great catch!

Conan, Jaime definitely should be whipped for that could care less line, guess Tywin taught him to read but never taught him proper grammar.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Lady S.

[beeble]

Wonder when Tommen will figure out that he doesn't get to have sex with his wife if she's locked up. Well, technically he's the king and could be able to, but he's a twink and can't stand up to anyone. 

 

I really wanted Diana Rigg to show the Sand Snakes how to fight, a la Avengers.

 

I hate that there are these incessant rape scenes. Having said that, Sansa has been through enough to know that she would probably have to endure more brutality. She's not the little air-head she used to be. That role is now filled by Marcella.

 

Jamie & Bronn in Dorne = Ishtar.

[Unknown poster]

I was hoping Ser Friendstone and Half-Barney would still be in Bedrock this week, but the plot is determined to carry them to Dany as quickly as possible.

And.. holy crap were people giving up easily this week!

Jorah's fighting prowess seems to be whatever the writers want it to be at that particular second. Sneak into town with two other guys and kill an army? No problem. Fight a few guys with swords, half of who were about to take a dump when they came to shore? "I surrender!"

And the Sand Snakes? What was that?

"Hey you kids! Are you trying to abduct and torture the princess again?"

"Noooo...."

"Then why are you coming at her with all those weapons?"

"Well, okay... maybe a little...but we were just playing..."

"Is there something you'd like to say to Princess Myrcella?"

"We're sorry we tried to abduct and torture you..."

Unless I missed something, I don't think Jorah was armed when they ran into the slavers. I assume he lost his sword along with the rest of his gear, when he went into the water to rescue Tyrion.

EDIT: he appears to have a dagger, but no sword. Considering there looked to be at least 6 men in the slave ships party, I'd say he made a smart choice.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Unknown poster

[Le Renard]

I got busy last night (ew gross I just read that and that's SO not how I meant it) so couldn't watch until today.

 

 

Haha nothing wrong with getting busy. I wish I got busy, that way I wouldn't have to witness a rape scene last thing before bed.

[wayne67]

Unless I missed something, I don't think Jorah was armed when they ran into the slavers. I assume he lost his sword along with the rest of his gear, when he went into the water to rescue Tyrion.

EDIT: he appears to have a dagger, but no sword. Considering there looked to be at least 6 men in the slave ships party, I'd say he made a smart choice.

 

When he took out the slavers he was well fed, well rested, armed and had backup in the form of two highly skilled and trained soldiers against ill prepared and poorly trained guards.

 

Here he was infected with Grey scale, been walking all day for however many days, had only roots and berries for nourishment . That and he wasn't particularly well armed enough to take on 6 armed pirates with Tyrion to guard, I'd imagine subconsciously he might even want to be given a quick death in the form of the fighting pits than suffer a long debilitating illness like Grey Scale.

 

As for Sand Snakes the only display of prowess they showed was killing an unarmed, incapacitated man, I guess it's more difficult to kill someone who is armed and fights back. I kept waiting for one of them to stab Myrcella and be done with it.

[KarenTargaryen]

It's funny how Lady Olenna when talking with Cersei never asks about the whereabouts of her son Mace.

 

[Andromeda]

Tommen compared to Joffrey reminds me of the Star Trek episode where Kirk is split into two -- his good half and his bad half. And it turns out the bad half has all the leadership strength, and the good half is ineffectual and waffling. Tommen is sweet, kind, and gentle, and a really really crappy king with no instinct for ordering people around.

 

Ugh, like so many, really hoped we were leading toward Sansa finagling her way out of actually marrying Ramsey. What is the point of it all? If I suspected she was playing a long game, I'd feel better. Because I can't for the life of me figure out why she went along with Littlefinger's plan, if it involved actually marrying the creep (or, even if she didn't know about Ramsey himself, the son of the creep who murdered her brother and who took over Winterfell and slaughtered her family's men).

 

I was pleased to see one earlier nude scene really had a plot point -- the Dorne-shaped birthmark. That said, wouldn't a squire be expected to know his master's body blemishes, considering he would be bathing their knight? And was the brothel boy really his squire at some point? Guess I missed that. I remember him doing something nefarious in a previous season, so I was confused who's side he was really on.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Andromeda

[Potanical Pardon]

I really wanted Diana Rigg to show the Sand Snakes how to fight, a la Avengers.

 

[Andromeda]

Was Arya at 'so you wanna be faceless' orientation told outright not to drink from that fountain? Just seemed like she was given some rags to wear and given a bucket and scrub brush and told to get to scrubbing floors. 

LOL, I had the same question. The water doesn't look any different...

[La Dee Da]

At the very least Oleanna can't [accuse Cersei and Jamie].  If she does then Tommen isn't the king and Margery isn't queen.  The entire realm would split into its component kingdoms or rally behind Stannis, the actual king, since they wouldn't just go along with whomever happens to claim Kings Landing. 

 

It would certainly be a burn everything down to the ground with dragon- and wildfire gambit, which doesn`t seem to be Oleanna`s style.  It would gain her nothing - even if Margery was pregnant, her child wouldn't be in a position to ascend.  I guess she's better off making good on her original threat of pulling Tyrell support and supplies out of King's Landing, than even threatening to tell the Sparrows.  As others have noted, I think Cersei is more at risk from a Lancel confessional on this front anyway.

 

Jorah's going to be the Patient Zero for a grey scale epidemic all along that coastline.  He's carefully not touching Tyrion, but the people he fights with if they survive are going to starting having their skin crack in short order.

I'm curious how the disease spreads - is he contagious now or when he becomes a full-on stone man/zombie?   

[DarkRaichu]

It would certainly be a burn everything down to the ground with dragon- and wildfire gambit, which doesn`t seem to be Oleanna`s style.  It would gain her nothing - even if Margery was pregnant, her child wouldn't be in a position to ascend.  I guess she's better off making good on her original threat of pulling Tyrell support and supplies out of King's Landing, than even threatening to tell the Sparrows.  As others have noted, I think Cersei is more at risk from a Lancel confessional on this front anyway.

 

I'm curious how the disease spreads - is he contagious now or when he becomes a full-on stone man/zombie?   

 

Am I the only one wondering who(which?) will win in a fight between ice zombies and stone zombies ?

And more importantly, can we see that, pretty please ?? :D :D :D 

[Miss Dee]

I think you're spot on. It sounds strange, but maybe the grand implications of that scene weren't about Sansa at all - she probably knew there was a good chance this wasn't going to be a honeymoon she'd tell her grandchildren about. But that may have been set up to be the final straw that makes Reek snap back to being Theon again, everything else be damned. And it's about time.

I think that's what's putting so many people off, though. If I have to watch a major female protagonist be systematically raped, brutalized and terrorized by a psychopathic fucktard antagonist, it should at least be a central turning point of HER storyline and character growth ensuring that she will move on from this treatment to something more empowering. Not just "Well, we needed to find a good emotional crossroads for one of our beloved male characters, and what better source of angst for him than to watch his pseudo-sister be violated by the same psychopath that tormented him? Isn't that a seriously awesome catalyst for him! God, the audience will feel SO much for this poor man as he listens to her screams! Who could NOT identify with him in this situation?!... Oh, the impact on her? Um, well... she'll be, you know, scared and stuff. Oh shut up - it's historically accurate!"

[rozen]

Great, way to ruin the show for me. Wth is it with men and using building female characters up only to rape them to spur their 'true' hero into action? It's disgusting. They couldn't think of any other way for Theon to break his conditioning than with an extended torture porn scene? Hate it, hate it hate it. 

[beeble]

Tommen compared to Joffrey reminds me of the Star Trek episode where Kirk is split into two -- his good half and his bad half. And it turns out the bad half has all the leadership strength, and the good half is ineffectual and waffling. Tommen is sweet, kind, and gentle, and a really really crappy king with no instinct for ordering people around.

 

Yes! That's it exactly! Maybe Jaime's sperm comes only in good/evil swimmers.

 

I was pleased to see one earlier nude scene really had a plot point -- the Dorne-shaped birthmark. That said, wouldn't a squire be expected to know his master's body blemishes, considering he would be bathing their knight? And was the brothel boy really his squire at some point? Guess I missed that. I remember him doing something nefarious in a previous season, so I was confused who's side he was really on.

 

I wondered the same thing. Doesn't a squire help draw baths and get clothes on? Therefore they'd know things like birthmarks. If the birthmark was on his testicles that would be a different matter, but the thigh is really no big deal.

[LittleIggy]

Yes! That's it exactly! Maybe Jaime's sperm comes only in good/evil swimmers.

 

I wondered the same thing. Doesn't a squire help draw baths and get clothes on? Therefore they'd know things like birthmarks. If the birthmark was on his testicles that would be a different matter, but the thigh is really no big deal.

Thank you. I thought the same thing.

I want Sansa to hurry up and put the light in the window. I would love to see Brienne gut Ramsey.

I wonder about the greyscale transmission, too. Jorah had to have touched Tyrion when he pulled him out of the water, at the very least.

[Bats27]

See having Brienne, or Theon, or anyone else besides Sansa do that would also crap all over Sansa's character.  Well unless the show makes it perfectly clear that they're doing so at her specific instructions/request.

[Pete Martell]

To me it seemed like Reek/Theon hesitated on the question of his relationship with Sansa.  When he said that he was a ward of the Starks - when I thought it had been said several times that Eddard treated him as a son, part of the family.  Was he trying to downplay his potential loyalty to Sansa?

 

Theon was only a part of the family to Robb, and even that had its limits. He was a prisoner, as he said to Luwin toward the end of season 2. He only ever remembered it as more after he'd been flayed and tortured for months.

 

I've been trying to avoid the horrific Loras trial story, but dredging up Renly, after having Loras never speak of him for 3 seasons and having him remembered solely through Brienne's love for him, just points out yet again what a terrible job they've done with Loras. Throwing this in with Sholyvar essentially reduces their relationship to Loras trolling Westeros for prize dick, of being the wicked homosexual who couldn't help himself. 

 

The writing for the Tyrells in the last two seasons, especially this season, genuinely makes me wonder if D&D want us to hope they are all killed. 

[izabella]

So Lady Olenna and Littlefinger are both in KL at the same time.  Maybe those two can collude again to take out Cersei and the Sparrows.  Seems they'd both have something to gain.

 

I agree that Sansa needs to be the one to kill Ramsey.  She's always a pawn in everyone's game but her own.

[wayne67]

So Lady Olenna and Littlefinger are both in KL at the same time.  Maybe those two can collude again to take out Cersei and the Sparrows.  Seems they'd both have something to gain.

 

Maybe they'll hatch a new scheme where Margery reveals that she's carrying the King's spawn and they'll have to let her go because the King will grow some balls at long last once the news is revealed.

 

Once Margery has the child she and her grandmother can off the remaining Lannisters with LittleFinger's help and he can rule over the North with Sansa as his bride while the Tyrell's rule the southern Kingdoms.

 

That'd be fun.

[Conan Troutman]

I think that's what's putting so many people off, though. If I have to watch a major female protagonist be systematically raped, brutalized and terrorized by a psychopathic fucktard antagonist, it should at least be a central turning point of HER storyline and character growth ensuring that she will move on from this treatment to something more empowering. Not just "Well, we needed to find a good emotional crossroads for one of our beloved male characters, and what better source of angst for him than to watch his pseudo-sister be violated by the same psychopath that tormented him? Isn't that a seriously awesome catalyst for him! God, the audience will feel SO much for this poor man as he listens to her screams! Who could NOT identify with him in this situation?!... Oh, the impact on her? Um, well... she'll be, you know, scared and stuff. Oh shut up - it's historically accurate!"

 

Oh, I agree. I didn't like it at all that Theon was there. He should have enough reason to hate Ramsey already. So does the audience. If If they have to include such a scene in the first place, it should've served to tell Sansa that no, you cannot "make him yours", as Littlefinger suggested. Maybe light the candle now?

[penelope79]

God dammit, I thought he'd pretend to be nice for a while. Guess there's no reason for him to do that once they're married, but I never wanted to jump through the TV and save someone more than I wanted to jump through the TV and save Sansa just now. :(

 

As much as I hated to see Sansa getting raped, I'm not relly surprised considering it's Ramsey we're talking about. And I agree with those saying that Ramsey's intention was probably punishing Theon first and foremost. That said, I wish Sansa had shown him her newfound strength, the one she used when she basically told Myranda to STFU and go. I know she was probably too scared, but in my dreams she could at least attempt to save her own life by saying something like: "You know that you're only enabled to actually keep the North if I'm unhurt, right? " I hated to see her a complete helpless victim. But I still hope that both Sansa and Theon come out stronger after this.

 

In any case, I'm pretty sure she's regretting Tyrion so, so much. The way she praised him by mentioning that Lord Tyrion was always  very nice and gentle with her seems to suggest it.

 

And by the way, the three actors were absolutely amazing.

 

"Theon, of House Greyjoy"

That took my breath away.

But the rest of that wedding scene was blasphemous! This sham of a marriage taking place at Neds weirwood tree, Sansa looking beautiful in that northern dress but marrying a monster!

 

I'd like to see a happy wedding there. For one of the Stark kids. Any of them.  Gendry, stop rowing!!!!

 

I'll repeat myself, but Alfie Allen is  a really great actor. His look when he said that he was Theon of House Greyjoy who was also Ned Stark's ward was priceless. And his face during the rape scene said it all.

 

Oh my gosh, the first 10 minutes were so boring. Her story is just a bunch blah blah bullshit philosophy spouting, but then so are a lot of the storylines. Even the hotness that is her mentor can't really save it.

 

There are times where I think Arya's storyline has the potential to be interesting, but then it gets dragged out a lot and I just found myself glancing the watch.

 

Dear Stannis, please get over there and kill the Boltons soon.  Thanks.

 

ITA. Please Stannis, get there soon and kill them all. I really hope Melisandre flay them before letting them burn very, very slowly.

 

At the very least Oleanna can't do that.  If she does then Tommen isn't the king and Margery isn't queen.  The entire realm would split into its component kingdoms or rally behind Stannis, the actual king, since they wouldn't just go along with whomever happens to claim Kings Landing.

 

Oh, I don't know. At the moment, her beloved grandchildren are soon to be trialled and, possibly, executed (am I correct to think the Faith is totally into death sentences?) hence it's not like she has a lot of chances. I can see Olenna finding a way to let the High Septon know about Cersei and Jamie and their children. Who knows, maybe she already even knows that Cersei is behind king Robert's death, which Lancel could only confirm. In any case, I can see Cersei's decision to arm the Faith backfire only if both Olenna and Lancel are, somehow, involved. Otherwise I don't see the need to 1) Making Olenna come back in KL and enrage her by touching her "future" and b) bringing back Lancel character and the fact that he helped Cersei killing off Robert. Cersei's possible demise can only come, imo, as a consequence of these two factors.

[darkestboy]

The Sansa scenes were uncomfortable as hell and hopefully Ramsay will suffer big time/get a suitably violent and humiliating death but some of the reactions are a bit OTT considering the amount of violence and horrible things this show throws out on a regular basis.

 

Winterfell in winter is utterly beautiful, isn't it? I've never seen the place look so enchanting and it was during yet another horrible wedding as well. I guess Theon will snap out of his submissive role as well and help Sansa take Ramsay down.

 

Cersei thinks she's being smart and she might have gotten both Loras and Margaery in trouble with the High Sparrow (one of them ain't gonna make it into Season 6) but she's going to regret allying with him. Loved her sparring with Olenna too.

 

Littlefinger continues to be repellent. Of course he told Cersei that Sansa was with the Boltons.

 

The Arya stuff was great but I want it to progress a little more. Waif girl looks like she might pose a threat to Arya as well or is that just me?

 

Sand Snakes are a bit pointless along with Ellaria. I still like Doran and Trystan/Myrcella seem alright too. Did Bronn get poisoned? Not enough Jaime either.

 

The scenes with Tyrion and Jorah are just great as well, 9/10

[Constantinople]

Am I the only one wondering who(which?) will win in a fight between ice zombies and stone zombies ?

I'm going with ice zombies because "What is dead may never die".

On a slightly more serious note, I only recall seeing the ice zombies ("wights") "killed" by fire (the one that Jon Snow torched late in Season 1 at Castle Black, and the one set on fire that was chasing Sam at the start of Season 3). Unless the Stone Men still have the mental capacity to use fire as a weapon, they're toast (or ice).

Plus, unless the greyscale confer some kind of immunity from wights, every dead Stone Man would become a wight, but every "dead" wight wouldn't necessarily become a Stone Man.

Of course, until we see it, who knows?

[Mz Anthrope]

I don't know that I can stomach any more ugly happening to Sansa.  This episode was well too much pain and filth done upon her.  

 

Pathetic, delusional Cersi... Lady Olenna has always been much more than you could ever hoped or imagined you could become.  She doesn't suffer anything kindly...

 

Poor acting during the Sand fight scene.   Loved the gentleman who'd corralled 'em all in!  

 

This season, for me, isn't near what the other seasons have been.  I honestly don't know that I care about where the stories go from here if these painful and brutal arcs continue without some amazing victories on the side of good.  Even a Joffrey type death isn't enough.  Would *love* if Brienne just knocked the shit out of the Boltons single-handedly and Littlefinger was left in the dungeons for rats to feast upon.

[annsterg]

I was pleased to see one earlier nude scene really had a plot point -- the Dorne-shaped birthmark. That said, wouldn't a squire be expected to know his master's body blemishes, considering he would be bathing their knight? And was the brothel boy really his squire at some point? Guess I missed that. I remember him doing something nefarious in a previous season, so I was confused who's side he was really on.

 

This, x 1 million. Despite his rep as a fighter, Loras is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. He should have calmly said re birthmark "...and my squire would know that."  But I also don't understand how Olyvar went from being an actual squire (we saw him in KL on the practice grounds) to working as a brothel manager. I would assume that to be a squire in the first place, he would have had to have SOME upper-class family background, but that family also would not want him working in a brothel...

[Conan Troutman]

I didn't even know he was his squire, I just thought he was some male whore who got promoted when LF left town. Yeah, that makes no sense at all. Did they combine two characters from the books here?

[Andromeda]

I didn't even know he was his squire, I just thought he was some male whore who got promoted when LF left town. Yeah, that makes no sense at all. Did they combine two characters from the books here?

Since this is a fantasy, I might think a squire didn't perform the same roles we know about in the Medieval times — if we hadn't seen Pod anxious to help Brienne remove her armor (doubt she'd let him bathe her, though!) or Mysandei washing Daenerys, or a dozen other bathing scenes where people are being helped to bathe (Sansa with Myranda being in the exact same episode.)

Edited May 24, 2015 by SilverStormm
Removed book talk.

[paigow]

Tyrion & Loras are now members of the "Betrayed By My Ho In Court" club.  Hopefully, Loras gets a (convenient plot twist) shot at revenge. 

[Popples]

Tyrion & Loras are now members of the "Betrayed By My Ho In Court" club.

 

Are you sure this is a club and not a Westerosi rap song? They only have like 4 songs so far, they could do with another one.

[RadiantAerynSun]

 

But the Lancel/Cersei incest or sexual relationships between cousins in general is really small potatoes. Heck, it's not even all that uncommon in real life right now and used to be fair game for most of human history. The potential problem here is more adultery on Cersei's part. Or the kingslaying part of it.

 

Yes I realize that, but it was adultery (as she was married) and with the Queen to boot. Lancel seemed to think it was worth mentioning as one of his sins, so I took it to mean the Faith would not approve. And he's a direct witness!