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Give The Devil His Due: Lucifer In The Media

Lisin

By Lisin
in Lucifer [V]

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CheshireCat
CheshireCat

Netflix picked up Lucifer https://tvline.com/2018/06/15/lucifer-netflix-season-4-renewed-returning/

Featherhat
Featherhat

Hey, don't just blame fangirls, by which I guess you mean "Deckerstar" shippers. This show failed in about 50 other ways as well this season. I didn't like the romance but I also thought the rest of t

rainsmom
rainsmom

I don't want them to go risqué. I do want them to un-neuter Lucifer, and let him be the DEVIL. He's boring as a lovesick, neutered puppy. Let the characters be realistic unto themselves -- go DARKER,

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rainsmom

rainsmom

14 hours ago, Commando Cody said:

I saw something on Twitter about retweeting something if you want Lucifer to get a season 4. Is this show not doing so well in the ratings?

Considering how much this season has SUCKED, I expect it's tanking.

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Happy Harpy

Happy Harpy

(edited)
On 3/2/2018 at 9:46 PM, rainsmom said:

Considering how much this season has SUCKED, I expect it's tanking.

It just tied series low with 0.7 (the previous one was the January 1st episode, where low ratings were expected). It began the season at 1.1 and stayed around 1.0 for a good part of it.

It should be safe because third season shows are generally renewed in order to enter syndication. But it's a co-production and networks have shown a tendency to favor fully owned shows in the last two years. The recent changes at FOX are an unknown variable, and with more football there will be less slots for scripted shows, or more shortened seasons. Lucifer can't afford to drop more or even stay that low, imo.

Edited by Happy Harpy
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jhlipton

jhlipton

On 3/1/2018 at 10:42 PM, Commando Cody said:

I saw something on Twitter about retweeting something if you want Lucifer to get a season 4. Is this show not doing so well in the ratings?

Both TV Grim Reaper and Zap2It have it as "likely renewed".

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CheshireCat

CheshireCat

(edited)
4 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

It just tied series low with 0.7 (the previous one was the January 1st episode, where low ratings were expected). It began the season at 1.1 and stayed around 1.0 for a good part of it.

It should be safe because third season shows are generally renewed in order to enter syndication. But it's a co-production and networks have shown a tendency to favor fully owned shows in the last two years. The recent changes at FOX are an unknown variable, and with more football there will be less slots for scripted shows, or more shortened seasons. Lucifer can't afford to drop more or even stay that low, imo.

 

As far as I know, the magic mark isn't season 4 but 88 episodes. Since S1 and 2 were shorter than the usual 22-23 episodes, Lucifer isn't close so syndication probably doesn't play a role at this point. Depending on how many episodes they get in a potential season 4, it might play a role for a S5 renewal though. But the way the show is going, I think it needs to make some significant changes (namely stop humanizing Lucifer and do something with Chloe!) so that it doesn't completely tank during a potential S4.

Edited by CheshireCat
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Happy Harpy

Happy Harpy

(edited)
7 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

I think it needs to make some significant changes (namely stop humanizing Lucifer and do something with Chloe!) so that it doesn't completely tank during a potential S4.

 

The show worked fine in the ratings for S2, which was very Chloe-centric and where Lucifer was already humanized. I'd say they need to drop Pierce, but he's only a symptom imo. I used to love Lucifer because I felt that the showrunners didn't try to manipulate the audience, just entertain them, followed the characters and did what was good for the story.

I lately fell upon a quote from the showrunner (Matt's Inside Line on TV Line, spoilers there Edit: There's a link in the spoiler thread) and it was textbook frustrate-the-audience BS that every other showrunner uses. They disregard the characters, yet I can't even call the writing plot-driven because the plot doesn't demand what they do. Imo that's why the show lost its touch and isn't as entertaining as it was (for what I saw). As long as TPTB don't change their POV I don't see it getting better.

Edited by Happy Harpy
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CheshireCat

CheshireCat

8 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

The show worked fine in the ratings for S2, which was very Chloe-centric and where Lucifer was already humanized.

Yes, but he was still very much the Devil, too, and there was a huge celestial story going on with Mom.

Cain's revelation came late, Lucifer lost his Devil face and we've seen fairly little of his powers and the left-over episodes didn't really help either as they broke up the flow of S3 and made Cain's revelation come even later. Plus, characters went somewhere in S2, including Chloe. Can't say that it feels like she's going anywhere this season. If anything, she seems to be going backwards because TPTB are so adamant to keep her ignorant and not put Lucifer and Chloe into a relationship any time soon.  They've touched on both already, they kissed and Lucifer was ready to tell Chloe, and I think it's very hard to go backwards and at the same time, move a character forward and not make it look like they're only doing it because it's a TV show and they want to keep it for later/the final season.

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Happy Harpy

Happy Harpy

Quote

The third WBTV series, Lucifer, was a sleeper hit when it launched in January 2016, and then landed an early Season 3 renewal in February 2017. This time around the comic-based drama is on the bubble, and it could go either way.

http://deadline.com/2018/03/network-renewals-agents-of-shield-izombie-scorpion-the-last-man-on-earth-bubble-1202352573/

If last year, I had read that Lucifer wasn't certain to return, I'd have been bummed. This season? Meh, TPTB deserve it.

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Gigi43

Gigi43

(edited)

I wanted to give this season the benefit of the doubt for so long because  it came in with strikes against it after a solid second season, with the carry over episodes  and Leslie-Ann's maternity  leave /slowdown  but some things the show did to itself. There was no need have Amenadiel go so many episodes without seeing Charlotte and this complete change in Maze as a result of Amen/Linda (I know she's a demon but come on.) They separated everyone/stories so much and part of what made last season so good was that they were mixing up pairings a lot and stories intersected  (Dan unknowingly being with God's wife? I didn't like "Mom" but good way to get him in the mix.)

 

I'm  not ready  to completely  be done with the show, but with Fox getting Thursday football next year (one less night for fall shows) and the Disney buyout, I can understand it going.

 

Of course, and this goes back to the episode shuffle, I didn't think back in season 1 it should get 22 episodes.  A lot of shows these days aren't cut out for that (or am I just getting used to less? ) 18 or less is good unless it gets filled out like standard procedurals that may still be getting on other networks. We're  still only 2/3rds in right? 26 is doing this a lot of damage especially if you don't follow online. I had to explain the episode holdovers to my brothers girlfriend who was baffled they suddenly went back in time after the Cain reveal. Way too much crime solving and too little of "the devil" doing it. Remember in season 1 he would get involved simply because he can spot guilt and the suspect didn't have it? I think it was the football player, that was pretty procedural but we still got a taste of having the devils view of shit which was fun. He doesn't really talk like that during cases anymore. It's more quips and bumbling.

Edited by Gigi43
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Mabinogia

Mabinogia

25 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

According to THR, Lucifer is "unlikely" to return.

Wish I could say I was surprised, or even sad at this point. I'm more at the shoot it and put it out of it's misery stage. Free these great actors to do something better.

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sinkwriter

sinkwriter

(edited)

I feel like whoever made the decision to change the tone of the series so drastically is at fault. I don't know if it's the network, or what, but they really did miss the boat this season. The show should have stayed in a later time slot, and kept part of its dark tone. It needs that. The show's about the devil, for fuck's sake. We need his snarkiness, we need his rebelliousness, and we need a tinge of darkness under his humor, or it's just off. And whatever they did with Chloe this season was a mess. Her not giving a damn about including her daughter with all the Pierce stuff, us not even seeing Chloe give Maze hell for hurting her daughter... so not Chloe.

It's really like they forgot what this show was all about.

Edited by sinkwriter
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Ria

Ria

I would like them to have another season to fix this mess and end on a high. But then they did have all season and did nothing to move away from the bad soap opera and lack of any real celestial storyline despite fan dissatisfaction from the beginning of the season. 

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Happy Harpy

Happy Harpy

33 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

Wish I could say I was surprised, or even sad at this point. I'm more at the shoot it and put it out of it's misery stage. Free these great actors to do something better.

I'm actually surprised that they're giving Gotham a better chance than Lucifer to return.

What TPTB did to female characters this season and even to their lead character, because they wanted to shoehorn a white sausage Big Name at all cost, is unforgivable. Yet, for the cast, (it isn't easy to find work, especially when you're an actress over 35) I kind of hope it's renewed and they replace this season's writers and showrunner instead.

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CheshireCat

CheshireCat

Spoiler TV has the show listed as "In danger" and TV Line as "could go either way". It was previously listed as "safe bet" on TV Line, no idea when they changed that status.

As much as I want to keep the show, this season wasn't the show I want to keep and judging from what I've read on twitter, this season wasn't an "accident", so I don't think that there'd be significant changes next season. It's this damn "Chloe can't know" insistence that robs them of so many opportunities but all TPTB seem to see is that this is how it's done on a show and we're going to stick with that. Such a pity because this show had so much potential. Maybe someone else can pick it up and make the necessary changes?

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katmax

katmax

I only got into Lucifer this year, but I really fell for the show in a way I haven't done with many TV shows. I really enjoyed S1 & S2 and the first half of S3.

The love triangle in the second half of S3 has been painful to watch and seems so out of character for both Lucifer and Chole. They de-powered Lucifer to the point where there's hardly anything supernatural in the show now and all he does is complain and try to emote.  Its no wonder the ratings have fallen so badly and the fans are revolting.  Having said that, when I looked online to see where the fans were discussing the show I was shocked at how much hate was being directed at it by the "fans", especially in places like reddit.

I'm going to try my best to enjoy the last 2 episodes we have left, though I won't be surprised if it ends on a cliff-hanger if what I've seen online is anything to go by. I also, at this point, won't be surprised if we don't get another season given the bad ratings, but I will be upset if they give us a sucky ending because the writers caved into the deckerstar fans (arrow anyone?) for a romance that has played out in the most awkward way. Personally, I would have preferred if Chloe found out the truth about Lucifer earlier in season 3. There's so many interesting places they could have gone with that.

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katmax

katmax

TV Grim Reaper has Lucifer as still likely to be renewed. Lets hope they are right....It really could go either way with the big decline in ratings this season and TV execs only care about the numbers.

http://www.tvgrimreaper.com/2018/05/07/final-renewal-cancellation-predictions-status-for-every-2017-18-broadcast-scripted-tv-show-continuously-updated/3726/

The writers still can come out with good scripts as we see from S3.23 but they haven't handled an extra long season very well.

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enoughcats

enoughcats

5 hours ago, katmax said:

TV Grim Reaper has Lucifer as still likely to be renewed.

I think the real question is ....is there a replacement show waiting in the wings that is a chance of having better ratings among target demographics (and that includes competition with Monday Night Football.) 

I hope that the number of failed new shows might be registering with TPTB  when they look at what they have that's a given ratings draw.

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katmax

katmax

(edited)

This not official but I stumbled across this

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/renewcancel/cancel-bear-vs-fox-week-32-final-predictions-for-gotham-bobs-burgers-and-10-other-shows/

Down in the comments section:

TvWatcher • 4 hours ago

Lucifer was cancelled tonight. It hasn’t been announced yet but I work on the show and was sent an email from the producers.

I have a sinking feeling this may be legit.  Fox has been on a real cancellation spree. Brooklyn 99 is gone. There's a massive howl over the internet. The last man on earth has also been cancelled. On Syfy its also just been announced that this year is the last for The Expanse and Agents of Shield is in real danger again.  One of my friends predictions that Lucifer "will reveal himself to Chole and the show will be over" might be coming true.

On a slightly lighter side. Here's the fan excuse bingo card for 2018

http://www.tvgrimreaper.com/2017/09/11/fanexcusebingo-card-2017-18-tv-season/2907/

Edited by katmax
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Happy Harpy

Happy Harpy

1 hour ago, katmax said:

This not official but I stumbled across this

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/renewcancel/cancel-bear-vs-fox-week-32-final-predictions-for-gotham-bobs-burgers-and-10-other-shows/

Down in the comments section:

TvWatcher • 4 hours ago

Lucifer was cancelled tonight. It hasn’t been announced yet but I work on the show and was sent an email from the producers.

 

Several people on TVBTN pretend they're business insiders and they usually aren't (the sempiternal "it's an international success" is usually a giveaway for someone like me, who lives abroad). Not saying it won't be cancelled, but take it with a huge grain of salt.

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katmax

katmax

1 hour ago, Happy Harpy said:

Several people on TVBTN pretend they're business insiders and they usually aren't (the sempiternal "it's an international success" is usually a giveaway for someone like me, who lives abroad). Not saying it won't be cancelled, but take it with a huge grain of salt.

All I can say is I hope you are right.

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wilnil

wilnil

(edited)
14 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

Several people on TVBTN pretend they're business insiders and they usually aren't (the sempiternal "it's an international success" is usually a giveaway for someone like me, who lives abroad). Not saying it won't be cancelled, but take it with a huge grain of salt.

I'm skeptical myself, just because no one known to work on the show has said anything yet as far as I can tell, and I can't believe WB would notify minor crew but not actors, showrunners, etc. And in the age of social media I don't see anyone sitting on the news until the network makes the official announcement.

It still could get canceled; I'm just not sure it's been canceled yet.

(Also: Really sucks about The Expanse.)

OK, never mind...

Edited by wilnil
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rainsmom

rainsmom

I just can't find it in myself to be upset. They didn't DESERVE to be renewed. You don't get to write 22 craptastic episodes and 2 good ones and get renewed. You just don't.

They fucked up a good show. Long live fanfiction.

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CheshireCat

CheshireCat

After this season, I'm not surprised and I kind of think that serves the showrunners right. However, it bothers me that such a great shows goes out after such a crappy season. Lucifer was so much better and deserved so much better.

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NJRadioGuy

NJRadioGuy

Way to take a great show and flush it away in 22 dreadful episodes. As I wrote elsewhere, the network and/or the writers either wouldn't or couldn't tell this story in a way to make it engaging to viewers with triple-digit IQs. It also didn't help when the leading actress had the romantic chemistry of a potted plant. I wouldn't mind seeing Netflix or one of the other streamers have a go at this, darken it down and get into the supernatural aspect of the story.

I'd watch the hell out of that.

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jhlipton

jhlipton

22 minutes ago, rainsmom said:

I just can't find it in myself to be upset. They didn't DESERVE to be renewed. You don't get to write 22 craptastic episodes and 2 good ones and get renewed. You just don't.

Once Upon A Time.  KevIn Can Wait, Man With A Plan, etc prove you wrong.

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CaptainTightpants

CaptainTightpants

4 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Showrunner about the season finale (kind of spoilery)

  Reveal hidden contents

Oh, another showrunner who knows he's on the bubble, but writes a cliffhanger go "force" the network to renew. Because it always works [sarcasm].

They would have been better off to write a solid season that wasn't insulting to the established characters as a strategy to get renewed for season 4. Relying on a cliffhanger to force a network into renewal is a plan about on par with the dreadful writing this season. I can't even blame Fox for this. 

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Helena Dax

Helena Dax

I'm completely furious. This show was gold and the writers/producers/whatever turned it into shit. I don't know who's behind the "Chloe can never know, let's keep the same old formula forever" angle, but they're narrow-minded, lacking imagination and shouldn't be allowed to work in anything creative again because they don't deserve it. This show had so much potential and they have wasted it with their stupid cliches and their stupid love triangles. They suck.

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sinkwriter

sinkwriter

(edited)
24 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Showrunner about the season finale (kind of spoilery)

  Hide contents

Oh, another showrunner who knows he's on the bubble, but writes a cliffhanger go "force" the network to renew. Because it always works [sarcasm].

 

What would be nice is if (after the finale airs) the showrunner would post what he'd planned for the show, so we could envision where it would have gone. Some showrunners have done that, and I've appreciated reading about it. But if he just leaves us with an unresolvable cliffhanger and no info about where he would have taken the show and these characters, then I feel like it's just a waste.

Edited by sinkwriter
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Ria

Ria

It’s their own fault they got cancelled. The ratings have been down and the fans complaining since the beginning of the season. Instead of listening and trying to improve the 2nd half of the season, they stubbornly stuck to their love triangles, buffoon Lucifer, petty Maze and dull Chloe. What did they expect? 

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Happy Harpy

Happy Harpy

3 minutes ago, Helena Dax said:

I'm completely furious. This show was gold and the writers/producers/whatever turned it into shit. I don't know who's behind the "Chloe can never know, let's keep the same old formula forever" angle, but they're narrow-minded, lacking imagination and shouldn't be allowed to work in anything creative again because they don't deserve it. This show had so much potential and they have wasted it with their stupid cliches and their stupid love triangles. They suck.

It's as if they did in S3 the complete opposite of what they did in S2.

And they knew, before even the ratings fell hard, that their storyline and new character wasn't well-received. They could have, they should have changed direction. When ratings are the only thing that keep your show alive, you try not to piss off your audience. As another poster said above, I can't even blame FOX for this one.

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katmax

katmax

Bad news. This hasn't been the best season, but its had some episodes I really loved (eg off the record, city of angels - mostly the hold overs from last year).  Like others here, I had hoped they could fix the issues created this year with a season 4. I'm bummed that its going to end on a cliff hanger though and we'll never know how Chloe takes to knowing that she was literally working with a fallen angel. They should really have made this reveal earlier in the season and avoided that stupid love triangle (sigh)....what might have been...what were they thinking....

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Rina99

Rina99

(edited)

Well, I loved (most of) the cast, so I'm sad on that point. But I have to echo how downright dreadful this season ended up being. I was never a fan of Chloe, but it got to a point where I couldn't bear to see her face. The whole romance deal with her and Lucifer just went over like a big ball of blah (which also accurately describes Chloe). I'll miss the show I got the first two seasons, but not whatever this third one turned into.

Edited by Rina99
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CheshireCat

CheshireCat

Blaming the network for the fact that the show will end on a cliffhanger is cheap and the reasoning for ending the episode on a cliffhanger is ridiculous. Networks care about profit, not about shows which are tied up in a neat bow. If the show isn't making money anymore they'll cancel it, with or without cliffhanger. And Henderson has been around long enough to know that. That it'll end on a cliffhanger is entirely on him.

@Helena Dax  I think it's Henderson who is behind the "Chloe can't know until the end of the show" philosophy. I've heard him say so in an interview long before I heard anyone else say so.

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katmax

katmax

1 minute ago, CheshireCat said:

 

@Helena Dax  I think it's Henderson who is behind the "Chloe can't know until the end of the show" philosophy. I've heard him say so in an interview long before I heard anyone else say so.

That's interesting. If so, then it was only going to get worse.  Chloe was a central character and her being in the dark was killing the storylines. It also severely limited the supernatural aspects to the stories.

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Happy Harpy

Happy Harpy

3 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

I think it's Henderson who is behind the "Chloe can't know until the end of the show" philosophy. I've heard him say so in an interview long before I heard anyone else say so.

I don't have the feeling that the co-showrunner was very talkative this season. Wasn't she a woman? If she was phased out, it might explain the terrible way female characters were written this season.

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katmax

katmax

16 minutes ago, Rina99 said:

I'll miss the show I got the first two seasons, but not whatever this third one turned into.

Too true, though there are a handful of episodes from the last season I'd re-visit. The first two seasons are TV gold. I hope the cast manages to find new work soon as they did the best they could with the scripts. Tom Ellis was a real find in this series and I hope he gets picked up elsewhere.

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Gigi43

Gigi43

I would have loved to seek the show rebound and go back to what it was. But they are not owed that.  I used to rewatch episodes because there were probably snappy lines I could have missed the first time or there was some thing specific I thought was worth rewatching. Now my attention can wander. It's never a good idea to bring on a new character and make the entire season  about  them especially when they are as wooden as Cain/Tom Welling.  Last season they really made an ensemble of supporting characters even though "Mom" got a lot of attention and they pissed that away this season. Dan and Amenadiel especially  felt like recurring characters we were lucky to see not series regulars from the first episode. We saw Chloe all the time but it wasn't the Chloe I was able to defend and like in seasons past. I have no idea why they turned Lucifer into what they did unless they hired all the  Castle writers when they moved production. 

 

They had three seasons to have Chloe find out the truth and it should have been done in season 1. And they thought they could "force" another season?  Even if that's a joke it makes them sound stupid to even say it. A round of applause for the Leverage producers for intentionally treating every season finale like it could be the last episode  (except for the one time they had early renewal. )

 

I hope to see a lot of the cast on shows in the future.  Especially Tom Ellis.

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