S05.E02: The House Of Black And White

[Athena]

Episode Synopsis:

Arya arrives in Braavos. Pod and Brienne run into trouble on the road. Cersei fears for her daughter's safety in Dorne as Ellaria Sand seeks revenge for Oberyn's death. Stannis tempts Jon. An adviser tempts Dany.

 

Reminder: This is for discussion of the TV show only, no book talk allowed - including saying "but it's different in the books". Any spoiler from outside the books (i.e. next weeks preview) should be in spoiler tags.

[AimingforYoko]

Varys and Tyrion really need to get a move on or there will be no ruler to help sit on the Iron Throne.

[dizzyd]

My, this was an awesome episode!

So news of Joff and Tywin’s deaths made it to Arya, they were no longer in her night chant.  Yay for bring back the old actor who played Jaqen.  Welcome to the House of Black and White Arya, not sure what to call you when you become a nobody.

Loved the encounter between Brienne and Sansa, it was just as it should be.  As was Brie saving Pod, she does care about him 

Bronn of the Blackwater, yay!  Reminded me of Bronn training Jaime to fight with his remaining hand back in KL.  Off to rescue Myrcella from Dorne together, that pair should be quite entertaining.

Did Elia cut her hair because she’s mourning?  Was Dorne in the opening creds?

“There’s a bug!” Hee, hee.  Poor Tyrion and his fucking boxes.  So how many dwarves can Cersei kill?  The Small Council was interesting as was the conversation about greyscale and Stannis offering Jon everything he ever wanted.

And yay to Sam for nominating Jon, Yay to Maester Aemon for breaking the tie and YAY to the nth degree to Jon for becoming Lord Commander!

Dany was stuck between a rock and a hard place by her own choice.  I was hoping she’d escape her dilemma by flying away with Drogon. 

Very satisfying episode :-)

[Primetimer]

Jaime's heading south to rescue his daughter, but he's going to need a hand. (NO JOKES, GUYS.)

Read the story

[SimoneS]

I was pretty bored, but it was good to see hot Jaqen again. I hope that Littlefinger dies at the pointy end of Brienne's sword one day soon.

[BizBuzz]

Jaqen!  Samwell!  Brienne seeing Sansa!  Doctor Bashir, oops, I mean, Doran!  Drogon!  Great episode.

[ihartcoffee]

Loved the ending! I still have chills!

[Mya Stone]

Seriously. That shot of Drogon and Dany on the pyramid is breathtaking. I rewound it twice.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Varys and Tyrion really need to get a move on or there will be no ruler to help sit on the Iron Throne.

Yeah, they ain't checkin for Mhysa anymore, lovefest is over.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Jaquen H'ghar! A man is back!

Poor Brienne. All she wanted to do was fulfill her promise to Cat and find her daughters. Now that she's finally found them, they want nothing to do with her.

Cersei continues to take absolutely no responsibility for the things her family has done. When she said that Dorne blames the Lannisters for the deaths of Oberyn and his sister, I thought well, yeah.

Bronn seemed to like Wallis, which was a surprise to me. I think he would have been okay marrying her and spending the rest of his life with her. He obviously wasn't head over heels in love with her (and he was totally not listening while she babbled on about flowers and flutes) but he seemed sincere when he told her that she is a good person and her sister would get what's coming to her eventually.

Ha, loved Lyanna Mormont's response to Stannis. Even ten year old kids don't want to ally with Stannis.

Awwwww, one of Dany's dragons came back! Well, for a second. See ya!

On a shallow note, I really liked Dany's dress this week.

[paigow]

Did Jaqen always do the "Mission Impossible Face Peel Off"? 

[silverwings]

Man it's great Dany has this entire country to practice on (and fuck up with) before she gets on her "real" throne.  Given the racial make-up of Meereen, I'm become less and less okay with that aspect of her storyline.

 

Was totally expecting trial by combat to be the solution (in the coliseum) to a "fair trial" - then everybody wins!  Not entirely sure why all the former slaves automatically went after the former masters, instead of attacking Dany head on. I feel like I missed something.

 

Yay for Jon on becoming Lord Commander.  Someone how I doubt that the other guy is going to take that slight lying down.  And I predict that the wildlings will be okay with serving Jon and either help guard the wall or fight for the North.

 

A man can just come back into the picture without warning. I squee'd.  Really looking forward to Arya becoming a faceless ninja assassin. :)

 

Still not sure what to make of the Littlefinger/Sansa/Brienne stuff but Sansa didn't seem to mind Littlefinger's men running off to kill Brienne. I thought that was weird.

 

The Jamie and Bronn road-trip has high standards to live up to - I am intrigued.  Though did anyone else read into his "mean things will happen to your sister eventually" as "I'll kill her".  Like, not in a romantic-because-I-love-you way. In the "mutually-benefiical-also-I-am-getting-my-castle-dammit kinda way. Just me?

[MrsRafaelBarba]

LOL @ Sam dropping the tea on Janos Slynt's cowardice.

Shireen really drew the short straw, when it came to parents.

[Pete Martell]

I didn't see all of this (I missed about 15 minutes after the first Dany stuff), but I'll catch up.

 

I can't quite get past how stupid Littlefinger is. I realize most of the people of the North probably never "saw" Sansa, but I still don't understand the logic of having her sitting around in an inn, having a lengthy conversation with her, when the only difference between Sansa and Alayne is a dye job and Darlene Connor Does Westeros clothes. 

 

I feel like Brienne meeting her should have had far more dramatic strength than it did. Essentially reducing it to Littlefinger's wandering accent of cleverness winning the day just made Brienne seem even more irrelevant than I thought possible. I wish they could just have her and Pod do a Bran and disappear for a while.

 

Speaking of boring and irrelevant, I'm glad Arya's story is finally going somewhere, but an entire episode of more Arya blank-facing and more list reciting and more badass posturing isn't a way to get me interested. Everything about Arya's story reeks to me of showrunners that aren't particularly interested in compelling female characters, and just have her doing this "tough" stuff so they can point to her as some great example of strong women.

 

Ellaria seems to have completely changed personality, which I could say makes sense for a woman who lost her partner, but she was as OTT bitter as possible just so that Bashir could smack her down. I did like her haircut, so that's...something.

 

More Bronn, now with a wife we can just laugh at and treat as an idiot. How original. I was kind of hoping last year was the sendoff for Bronn, but I do think his relationship with Jaime is interesting, so I will keep an open mind. I think sending Jaime to Dorne comes across as the show not knowing what to do with him, but at least they came up with some outfits that NKW looks damn good in.

 

I was most interested again this week in The Wall. At first I thought the men cheering and being all Bayside High over who would be Lord Commander was a little silly, but once Aemon broke the tie vote in Jon's favor, I was cheering myself. I'm also glad they let Jon stay quiet and Sam did all the work, as Jon likely has mixed feelings over the whole thing. 

 

Dany  - bad choice, in the worst possible way. I guess there really was no good choice here. Emilia Clarke's very good at moments of reflection and doubt. I think she's come into her own a little in the last season. The moment at the end with Drogon almost giving in to her touch before flying away was one hell of a way to end an episode. For all Varys' hopes of her leading, she's quite poor at it, and deep down I think she knows this isn't what she wants. I think she'd rather just smash and grab (or scorch and grab). I think her ending should be getting the chance to rule and ultimately saying no.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Dear Bronn..

Please kill Ser Meryn, before taking off to Dorne.

Edited April 20, 2015 by MrsRafaelBarba

[Stardancer Supreme]

I loves my GOT, I really do!  But I can't help but think that I am being lulled into thinking that gruesome shit isn't coming down the pike.

 

Bronn!  

 

Drogon is back! I wonder where he's been. Surely a Dragon can't just fly about and not be noticed.

 

Free Shireen! Especially from her shrew of a mother.

[bluvelvet]

I feel like Daenarys keeps making one mistake after the other, the ONLY people in Mereen who had have her back completely are the Unsullied and her freed slaves. By killing that guy she has essentially alienated the slaves who worshiped her and was loyal to her rule. Why couldn't she have just thrown him in jail and have him do some time versus "public beheading."  She is the one who initiated "Kill the Masters" and now when one does that to protect her no less she kills him in public. *shakes head*  . As for Drogon, he came back and was probably wondering where his siblings were..

 

J'aquen! I love "a man"

 

I have to say that Jaime looked very hot in the new outfit, also loving the scruff. I am surprised at how salty Cersei is being towards him, I thought they made up at the end of last season. Loved Kevan Lannister essentially giving her the smackdown, he see's right through her "I am acting in the Kings stead"...

 

I was a bit surprised at Elaria's ..send Myrcella back to Cersei in pieces, she didn't come across as that bloodthirsty last season and the prince was right, he DID die in a trial by combat so technically it's not murder.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Bet Dany misses Jorah right about now.

Uncle got Cersei's ass together at the Small Council.

Edited April 20, 2015 by MrsRafaelBarba

[dramachick]

A woman loved seeing a man again!

 

I was LAMO after Stannis asked "Do you know this wretched girl?" and then Jon read that note!  A 10-year-old girl told Stannis to go and kick rocks.

 

Don't like this new version of Sansa with pervy Littlefinger. Like Arya said, she lost her wolf.

 

Yay, Jon is the new Lord Commander! But I'm sure Alister Thorne is gonna stab him in the back somehow. Loved how Sam broke Slynt's face with the reveal about him hiding with Gilly and the baby.

 

They better not burn up Shireen!

 

Looking forward to the road adventures of Varys and Tyrion.  Who will they run into?  Sir Jorah? Arya?

 

Glad that Barriston finally told Dany about the mad king, but I'm more than ready for her to fly away on a dragon, never to be seen or heard from again.

 

 

 

[Pete Martell]

I am surprised at how salty Cersei is being towards him, I thought they made up at the end of last season. 

 

That was before he let Tyrion out.

[bluvelvet]

That was before he let Tyrion out.

 

Ahh...thanks for the connection.  I keep forgetting that little fact is hanging between the two of them.

[paigow]

Looking forward to the road adventures of Varys and Tyrion.  Who will they run into?  Sir Jorah? Arya?

 

The caravan is headed away from Braavos...Unlikely they will meet Arya

[areca]

The Jamie and Bronn road-trip has high standards to live up to - I am intrigued.  Though did anyone else read into his "mean things will happen to your sister eventually" as "I'll kill her".  Like, not in a romantic-because-I-love-you way. In the "mutually-benefiical-also-I-am-getting-my-castle-dammit kinda way. Just me?

He said he planned as much to Tyrion when he turned him down for champion.  'Noble ladies break their necks riding all the time.  Go figure.'  

Edited April 20, 2015 by areca

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Loved Kevan Lannister essentially giving her the smackdown, he see's right through her.

Then dropped the Mic, like BOOM I'm out!

[Pete Martell]

The other thing that annoyed me about the Dorne scene is I felt like they just crossed out "Tywin" and "Cersei" and used an old script for Doran and Ellaria.

[Macbeth]

Jaimie is wise to find a reason to leave King's Landing.  As was his Uncle. 

 

At least he has a cause.  He found his purpose.  Jamie is a member of the King's Guard - he is trained to protect - not that he has been successful at his work. 

 

A few people this episode were trying to find a purpose in the new world order.

 

I fear for Sansa who is just trying to survive.  It is clear she is scared of Baelish and could not entertain Brienne's offer.  She did try to warn Brienne by indicating that she should leave now.

 

Arya really needs to learn how to disappear and become no one.  Sansa is a good reason why.  The Hound was right - there was no safe place for her given who she was.  She would only be used as a pawn.

 

And God knows she never wanted to be a lady.

 

And yes A Man is back!!!  All is forgiven GOT.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Macbeth

[bunnyblue]

 

So news of Joff and Tywin’s deaths made it to Arya, they were no longer in her night chant. 

 

I remember she found out about Joffrey during her travels with the Hound. But color me confused on how she found out about Tywin, considering she was on a boat crossing the Narrow Sea the last few weeks. I noticed she removed Ilyn Payne's name from the list. Is he dead?

 

Poor Brienne. All she wanted to do was fulfill her promise to Cat and find her daughters. Now that she's finally found them, they want nothing to do with her.

Ha, loved Lyanna Mormont's response to Stannis. Even ten year old kids don't want to ally with Stannis.

 

I love Brienne (and Pod) but she really doesn't seem to have a much of a plan once she finds the Stark sisters. All she has to offer is her word to their mother but considering all they've been through, she should know they will not believe her or accept any offer of help. And both the Hound and Littlefinger have been quick to point out she failed to protect all those she's sworn to serve. I fear her sense of duty and honor (and naivete) is going to get her and Pod killed.

 

And yes, I too loved the 10 year old's succinct reply to Stannis. 

 

Speaking of that scene, man, I really wanted Jon to accept Stannis's offer of becoming Jon Stark and the Lord of Winterfell. Why do you have to be so damn noble, Jon Snow?! I need one of the Stark kids to avenge stupid, honorable Ned & Robb. And Jon marching to Winterfell and annihilating Roose Bolton would be a wonderful start. I wonder, though, if he were Jon Stark, would the other Northern houses bow to him as their Lord? Oh well, I guess becoming Lord Commander of the Night's Watch is a nice consolation prize. I couldn't help but notice that the NW has grown in numbers since the battle with the wildings. They had 100 men and lost a lot of them but that mess hall was packed and it looked like there were 80 or so tokens. Could they have gotten so many recruits in just a few short weeks?

 

I can not stand Cersei & her smirking and I need someone, anyone, to take her down several pegs. So glad Kevan told her he will not be her puppet. Every time the camera was on Mace Tyrell, all I could think was that he looked like the mayor of Munchkinland. No wonder no one takes him seriously.

 

Dany's story continues to bore me. Tyrion and Varys need to hurry up and get to Mereen and get things moving forward. How many seasons have we had to watch Dany try and fail to rule her free cities? Seeing Drogon was the best part of her storyline tonight. He needs to break out his brothers from their dungeon. 

 

ETA: I noticed that Dany still has some Dothraki in her entourage. I thought they had all left her or died because I don't remember seeing them last season. It was nice to see some of them have remained loyal to her and it must quite an experience for them marching all over Essos with their Khaleesi.

Edited April 20, 2015 by bunnyblue

[Rocket]

Danny's goal and vision is becoming a Great Queen and leader no way she giving that up. Danny is missing the education that great advisors can give as I doubt her brother gave her much ruling training. Hopefully her great advice will reach her soon. Letting the former slave owners live is still a bad decision.

I could see how many would be upset if Danny had the wisdom to rule without good advice and training. The she's too perfect and unbelievable complaints would be endless.

The Mad Kings mistake was not burning real opponents, his madness was burning supporters for no go reason.

Sansa has learned to not let anyone see her real opinion on things. No way was Sansa going to let her real opinion of a strange woman knight she has never met show. And this woman knight has only failed so far. Little finger and knights greatly outnumber this stranger Sansa is going to play it safe and seam to want to stay with Littlefinger until she's sure it would be safe to leave. And Sansa might see Littlefinger as her best option to learn how the game is played as well.

For the election I assume most of the watch from the other two towers came to vote, maybe with Stanis there they even borrowed his troops to guard so all could be there. They really need to give the free people the lands south of the wall for help holding the wall maybe even open a few of the closed towers.

[Winnief]

I remember she found out about Joffrey during her travels with the Hound. But color me confused on how she found out about Tywin, considering she was on a boat crossing the Narrow Sea the last few weeks. I noticed she removed Ilyn Payne's name from the list. Is he dead?

 

Well maybe the boat stopped somewhere for water or something briefly along the way.  Or maybe she heard it in Braavos while they were on the way to the House and didn't show us.

 

The actor who player Ilyn Payne had cancer and had to leave the show, so I think the official in universe explanation is that yep, Ilyn's dead. 

[bmoore4026]

Said it before, saying it again:  I see that title and can't help hearing this:

[DrSpaceman]

I am still not sure what Tyrion has to offer Dany in terms of a partnership. Just being another advisor? I readily admit he would be better at ruling and making decisions than her, but she doesn't know that, she wouldn't admit it if she did know it and his brother killed her dad. Tryion has no access to the family money or any real power in the Lannister name right now. I just dont know what really Varys has in mind

really stupid move by her this episode, obviously.

I have no idea who is at that how or what Arya is planning, but I find it more interesting still than most of the other plots

Really none of the Lannister children have what it takes to be ruler of the seven kingdoms. No one takes Cersei seriously. Tyrion would be killed by his sister the moment he steps in Kings Lannding. ANd Jaimie seems to have good looks and little else going for him now.

So did the older guy at The Wall, I forget his name, cast the deciding vote for Jon Snow?

[thuganomics85]

He's back!  The Man is back!  Yeah, as soon as I saw Tom's name in the credits, I knew Jaquen, Champion of Badass and Suave, was going to finally return.  OK, he actually claims he is "No One" now, but I'm calling Jaquen, until otherwise.  But, this was definitely the highlight for me.  Can't wait to see him help Arya embrace her crazy, badass side.  If nothing else, help her know when to pick her battle.  I love you, Arya, but you can't just take on three thugs at once.  Pace yourself, Little Stark.

 

Brienne's track record with the Starks girls, is not good.  First Arya, and now Sansa is like "Yeah... thanks, but no thanks" to going with her.  At least she still has Pod. Loyal to a fault, Pod is.

 

Shireen is awesome.  She made Gilly was more fun then usual.  It's too bad her parents are two of the biggest downers in Westeros.  Don't let them drag you down, Shireen!

 

Bronn!  He is back too!  And going to go party... I mean, help Jaime in Dorne!  I really can't wait to see more of those two together.  They were so much fun last season.

 

Speaking of Dorne, glad we got a glimpse of it.  Alexander Siddig was as awesome as Prince Dorian as I hoped he will be.  I like that Dorian seems to have a good head on his shoulders about how to handle things.  Seriously, Ellara: I get it.  What happened to Oberyn really, really sucked.  But chopping up Mycella and sending her to Cersei, would be the absolute worst thing to do at the moment.   You really want to unleash that ball of crazy on Dorne?

 

I remember why I liked Kevan Lannister, despite not appearing since season one.  Yep, loved him like "I'm here to serve the king; not be you puppet, Cersei!", and bounced out of the meeting.  It's going to take more then a smirk to get your way, Cersei.  I love that she of all people was giving Margaery shit about smirking.

 

Jon Snow refuses Stannis offer to get title and officially become a Stark, but hey, at least he's captain of the Nightswatch, thanks to a rousing speech by Sam (extra credit to the Janos slams!  Tyrion would be proud!)  I'm sure Alister is going to love that!

 

I still enjoy the Varys/Tyrion interactions, but I really wouldn't blame Varys if he just locked Tyrion into another box, if he keeps being this big of a party-pooper.

 

They better get to Meereen soon though.  Daenerys is falling apart at the seams, it seems.  Even if it was "in the law", she had to know that executing that former slave was going to cause riots.  She should have found some kind of punishment that would have spared him, but would have allowed her to remain strong.  But, hey, Drogon's back, so.... maybe they'll be afraid of her, at least?  Yeah, she needs Varys and Tyrion.

Edited April 20, 2015 by thuganomics85

[Muffyn]

Did anyone expect a titan up-skirt?  

 

Dany is a ruler with good intentions but she really doesn't know what she's doing.  

 

While I feel like Bronn should be free to live his life, I like the thought of him on a road trip with Jaime.  And yeah, he was planning on knocking off his fiance's sister as soon as they were married.  

[WicketyWack]

Podrick being pitched by his horse, Podrick crouching on the ground until told to stand, Podrick checking out the tavern girl. Never change, kid.

 

Nice to see that Brienne’s badass jousting skills translate to actual badass combat skills. I do think it was pretty ham-handed to walk up to Sansa in a public tavern and loudly announce,”Lady Sansa.” Just spitballing here but you’d think she would realize Sansa is wanted by the Queen (well, at least the head part of her is) and probably doesn’t want her identity trumpeted in a crowded inn.

The “accepted proposal” of which Littlefinger spake was mos’def referring to a marriage he’s arranged for Sansa. Damn, chick, why didn’t you press that line of conversation further? The Brienne option might have looked a little better to you, if you had.

 

A Woman squee’d when A Man was revealed.

 

“Our baby boy set to marry that smirking whore from Highgarden.” You gotta give it to Cersei: she does know how to turn a phrase.

It was so refreshing to see Shireen making friends with a girl (more or less) her age, so of course whackjob religious freak Mom has to shut that down right away. #FreeShireen

 

Jamie fookin’ Lannister, indeed, looking hot in his Westerosi bomber jacket.

[Love]

All I could think about during the Dany/death scene was how "the one who passes the sentence swings the sword". Again this week, her story continues to be the weak link. Did love Drogon though. Wow has he gotten big.

Glad Jon was named Lord Commander. Although, maybe I missed something....why in the world would he turn Stannis down? Jon Stark sounds really good. Damn that honour thing....

Sam surprisingly didn't bug this week. Even Gilly was tolerable. I blame Shireen for that though. Girl is adorable, especially considering her parental units.

Jaime and Bronn are my new fave couple. Got way more excited than I should have when I saw Jaime sitting there waiting for Bronn. Looking so forward to their exploits.

I continue to love Cersei. I really feel for her. I think she's in for a world of trouble. Way in over her head.

As for the rest....

Tyrion & Varys bored me...as did Arya. I never got the appeal of "A Man". Littlefinger grosses me out so the less said about him the better. I feel bad for Sansa being stuck with him. I really hope she's playing him. I have nothing to say about Brienne/Podrick.

[Lady S.]

Was totally expecting trial by combat to be the solution (in the coliseum) to a "fair trial" - then everybody wins!

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too! Wait til there's a good number of SotH captured, then send them against the pit fighters and let the gods judge their guilt. C'mon, Ser Barry, that is the Westerosi way. And why didn't he bring up her father and fair trials before the mass crucifixions? Little late now. I also feel like it's a plot contrivance that Dany didn't ask him what he knew about her family as soon as they met, wouldn't she have wondered about Rhaegar and the parents she never knew? Barry knew them a lot longer than Viserys did.

 

 

Speaking of that scene, man, I really wanted Jon to accept Stannis's offer of becoming Jon Stark and the Lord of Winterfell. Why do you have to be so damn noble, Jon Snow?! I need one of the Stark kids to avenge stupid, honorable Ned & Robb. And Jon marching to Winterfell and annihilating Roose Bolton would be a wonderful start. I wonder, though, if he were Jon Stark, would the other Northern houses bow to him as their Lord? Oh well, I guess becoming Lord Commander of the Night's Watch is a nice consolation prize. I couldn't help but notice that the NW has grown in numbers since the battle with the wildings. They had 100 men and lost a lot of them but that mess hall was packed and the tokens

With Bran and Rickon presumed dead, he is the last male Stark. The KitN's legitimized brother or the man who murdered the KitN? I think they'd run to Jon with open arms, judging by the Old Bear's niece. That's why Stannis is offering, if the North wants a Stark, he thinks giving them one will give him the North. I do wish Jon had been more conflicted and didn't reveal his answer until the next ep.

 

There were only 100 men at Castle Black, but men from the other two castles should be there for the election. The old guy candidate is supposed to be the leader of the Shadow Tower men.

 

The actor who player Ilyn Payne had cancer and had to leave the show, so I think the official in universe explanation is that yep, Ilyn's dead.

I think he's recovered now? But anyway, no, he was on her list in s3-s4, and Tywin tried to convince Tyrion "I'd never let Ilyn Payne take off your head" or whatever shortly before his own death. The Red Woman, Beric, and Thoros are also missing from her list and we know Melly is still kicking up at the Wall.

 

Uncle Kevan was right about Tommen needing to be involved, but I think his refusal to accept her authority and questioning her sitting in the Hand's chair is really about seeing her as unfit to take Tywin's place. Which, of course, she is, but Tywin didn't involve Tommen in the meetings either, and I doubt he shared all of his plotting with his brother. I like seeing the continuing beautiful friendship between Cersei and Qyburn and Pycelle's continued indignation. 

 

Ellaria's mourning haircut is nice, the personality makeover not such a good look.

 

The Cersei/Jaime scene was a bit odd. Are we supposed to believe Jaime cares about keeping their relationship hush-hush after twice having sex with her where anyone could walk in? Or that Cersei actually wanted him to be more than a sperm-supplier to the kids before this, when she wouldn't even let hold Joff's dying body yelling "Don't touch him!"?

 

I am still not sure what Tyrion has to offer Dany in terms of a partnership. Just being another advisor? I readily admit he would be better at ruling and making decisions than her, but she doesn't know that, she wouldn't admit it if she did know it and his brother killed her dad. Tryion has no access to the family money or any real power in the Lannister name right now. I just dont know what really Varys has in mind

Tywin also betrayed Aerys and then had Rhaegar's children murdered, Varys is counting on her endorsing patricide in this special case. Though I agree that's not a great bet.

 

And yeah, looks like the maester born Aemon Targaryen cast the deciding vote for Jon.

Edited April 20, 2015 by SilverStormm
Removed spoilery spec.

[Etta Place]

I was ... super bored.

 

Glad to see Jaqen again, and the Arya storyline was probably the least boring of the episode.

 

And while I like seeing Sansa choose her path, and I like the concept of Jon Snow's ascension in the Knight's Watch, the actual mechanics of the former was yawn-worthy and the latter completely cheesy.

 

The Meereen storyline could be retitled 10 Stupid Things Dany Does Before Breakfast.

 

Even Tyrion and Varys were coma-inducing.

 

Oh, I liked Brienne saving Pod.

[Ambrosefolly]

I need one of the Stark kids to avenge stupid, honorable Ned & Robb.

 

I am sure once Arya gets the complete lowdown on what happened at the Red Wedding, House Fray and Bolton will be wiped out, and she won't need an army to do it. Walder is already on her list. Lets not forget, she plays dirty. Jon knows that Bran is still alive and hopefully figures that Rickon is too. True, Bran wants to become a tree, but still. 

Edited April 20, 2015 by Ambrosefolly

[dr pepper]

Jon could not accept the offer to be trueStarked because the Night's Watch oath is super duper pooper scooper sacred. There is no provision for release from it.

[Lady S.]

Dothraki sighting leading poor Mossador to his doom. The show has really dropped the ball with them. Dany should be utilizing her very first followers more, their loyalty should be second only to the Unsullied if they're still with her after all that's happened.

 

Speaking of loyalty, have to agree with Daario about Hiz. The man has a very good reason to hold a grudge about his father's death if he loved him the way he seemed to in his introductory scene. The last time Dany accepted help from a person with a good reason for a grudge, that woman killed her baby and stole Drogo's soul or life force or whatever. Why should a former slaver be the first person in the history of the show to nobly forgive his enemies? Being a slaver who draws a line at the crucifixion of children is not a great recommendation and if he was being sincere about that it only gives him more reason to seethe over his father's unjust death.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Lady S.

[CletusMusashi]

Ten random thoughts: 

 

1. This was way more fun than last week.

 

2. Sam, Gilly, and Shireen need more scenes together. Also, loved Sam's speech. Especially him scoring points on Slynt!

 

3. Some of the actors are really owning their material. I don't think Dany made any brilliant decisions this week, but the way she was showing all the conflict made me cheer for the show. Maybe not so much for the character, but the actress? Hell yeah! Also completely awesome, Maester Aemon's obvious glee at holding back that one vote, just in case it might come in handy.

 

4. Varys and Tyrion gave me the gratuitous shoutout to "Road to.." movies that I've been waiting for.

I'll try to shut up about it now.

 

5. Littlefinger did a very good job of putting Brienne in her place. On paper.

But in actual performance: the Wheel of Accents makes it a lot harder to consider him the voice of sanity.

 

6. Why is it that Sandy is sending huge ridiculous threatmails built around G.I. Joe surplus gag dildos... yet is so lackadaisical about her own villainous appearance that she's frumping around Dorne with Mom hair?

 

7. Bronn is back! Yay!

 

8. Cersei's council scene was perfect! I loved the mixed reactions.

 

9. I'm skeptical that Qyburn was truly planning an experiment that required, for some reason, a dwarf skull.

I think he just wanted a little head.

 

10. I'm very sorry about that last thought.

Edited April 21, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[Meredith Quill]

I am still not sure what Tyrion has to offer Dany in terms of a partnership. Just being another advisor? I readily admit he would be better at ruling and making decisions than her, but she doesn't know that, she wouldn't admit it if she did know it and his brother killed her dad. Tryion has no access to the family money or any real power in the Lannister name right now. I just dont know what really Varys has in mind really stupid move by her this episode, obviously.

I have no idea who is at that how or what Arya is planning, but I find it more interesting still than most of the other plots

Really none of the Lannister children have what it takes to be ruler of the seven kingdoms. No one takes Cersei seriously. Tyrion would be killed by his sister the moment he steps in Kings Lannding. ANd Jaimie seems to have good looks and little else going for him now.

So did the older guy at The Wall, I forget his name, cast the deciding vote for Jon Snow?

 

Tyron would be able to give Dany unique insight to Cersei and the rest of House Lannister (as well as other powerful nobles in the seven kingdoms) and as Varys mentioned, he has a good head for strategy.

 

Maester Aemon did indeed cast the deciding vote for Jon.

[candall]

Dario was right.  The Mother of Dragons is much more appealing when she has a dragon.

 

I can't understand what Brienne is offering Sansa and Arya.  "Accept my protection and. . . we'll roadtrip around indefinitely"? 

 

I'm glad smooth operators Varys and Baelish both have more story to go, although I definitely did not see Varys being set up as the civic-minded voice of reason.  I appreciate his frustration at trying to wrangle drunk woebegone Tyrion--it's probably really stale inside the luxury travel box.  (Jim West and Artemis Gordon, the early years.)

 

Yay for a whole episode where we didn't have to ponder the functionality of Grey Worm's equipment.  Which, considering, is a terrible name for that guy.

 

 

[Timetoread]

I happen to think that Dany did the right thing.  I've been kind of bristling at all this drivel about how the little woman needs to shut up and let the men run things.  And that the proof of her effectiveness is measured by how popular she is.  That she should smile pretty, stop taxing her female "mind" with men's work, and do everything her father figure and the dude that she's screwing say to do - because they have lots of experience being rulers - oh wait...

 

The truth is that this is a very difficult situation to navigate and perhaps unprecedented in the world in which they live.  Those benevolent dick-owning advisors of hers don't place any real priority on whether or not slavery is bad.  The men seem to be all about keeping the status quo - no matter how much it sucks.  Ending slavery is Dany's thing.  It has been for a long time - which is pretty impressive for someone born into royalty.  So she marched into a foreign land, and because she had the muscle to do so (not just her advisors, but the slaves she freed in another land that happen to also be soldiers AND, btw, dragons) she flipped the script by abolishing slavery on the spot.  Ok, so then what?  Leave and let Jim Crow set in?  Stay and let the slaves kill the masters in bloodsports?  Loot the joint and let the dragons eat their fill and burn it to the ground on their way out the door?  No.  Instead, because she is trying to learn how to rule a nation, she is staying and maneuvering between a master class that doesn't know how to function without slaves and a slave class that doesn't know how to function without masters - both of whom hate each other.

 

I'm down with her attempts to be fair.  And I agreed with her for killing that dude.  I was thinking, "How dare he?"  She gave him an order and his retort was "You didn't REALLY mean that.  My way is better, you'll see."  How good is a ruler who allows their subjects to arbitrarily decide to belay orders that they dont' agree with?  Killing him sent a bigger, long term message - this is going to be a nation of law and ALL are subject to that law - former master AND former slave.

 

One needs to learn how to rule and doing the right thing is almost universally unpopular.  I admire her for trying and frankly if everyone can cheer for the teenager with the penis, Jon Snow, because he's not a coward (mostly because he has nothing to lose) and he can lead a hundred men, why not cheer for the teenager with the vagina (also not a coward), and the army of a thousand she leads, and the nation of tens of thousands she's trying to rule, and, btw, the DRAGONS?

Edited April 20, 2015 by Timetoread

[cambridgeguy]

It's too bad Dany and Robb never met: they both seem to be fans of justice at any cost.  Whatever happened to tossing somebody in prison and letting them rot for a while?  Execution or pardon aren't the only options.

[Isazouzi]

Jon could not accept the offer to be trueStarked because the Night's Watch oath is super duper pooper scooper sacred. There is no provision for release from it.

Yep, and I'm disappointed in Stanis, who sees himself as an honorable man, for not respecting this vow. But other than that, I love Stanis and I don't even know why.

 

Dany, if you decide on a fair trial for someone, then it should be the same for everyone. And if you want everyone to respect The Law, maybe you should teach them what The Law is first.

So what's up with Drogon? Is he in his rebellious stage? The mother of Dragons has really lost her touch. It's probably all very symbolic, I imagine.

 

I could listen to Varys all day, but I really need, Cersei and Tyrion to shut up now.

 

And what was Arya supposed to say? "A Man gave me this" instead of Jaquen? Would he have let her in immediately?

Edited April 20, 2015 by Isazouzi

[DrSpaceman]

Tyron would be able to give Dany unique insight to Cersei and the rest of House Lannister (as well as other powerful nobles in the seven kingdoms) and as Varys mentioned, he has a good head for strategy.

 

Maester Aemon did indeed cast the deciding vote for Jon.

In terms of any inside information about House Lannister, I am not sure what Tyrion is going to offer that probably isn't already known or suspected about them.  I don't dispute he has a good head for strategy, but Dany already has multiple advisors and doesn't follow their advice much of the time now, so I am not sure how Tyrion is going to be any more successful then the current ones

 

And in the end I just don't see how they convince her to trust a Lannister, any Lannister, even Tyrion, given they are known for ruthless backstabbing and literally killing anyone that stands in their way, including her father.  And most of the Stark clan at the Red wedding.  And Ned Stark in Season One. 

 

In the end I know it will happen simply because that seems to be the direction the story is headed, but I am curious as to how it happens

Edited April 20, 2015 by DrSpaceman

[Timetoread]

In terms of any inside information about House Lannister, I am not sure what Tyrion is going to offer that probably isn't already known or suspected about them.  I don't dispute he has a good head for strategy, but Dany already has multiple advisors and doesn't follow their advice much of the time now, so I am not sure how Tyrion is going to be any more successful then the current ones

 

And in the end I just don't see how they convince her to trust a Lannister, any Lannister, even Tyrion, given they are known for ruthless backstabbing and literally killing anyone that stands in their way, including her father.  And most of the Stark clan at the Red wedding.  And Ned Stark in Season One. 

 

In the end I know it will happen simply because that seems to be the direction the story is headed, but I am curious as to how it happens

 

I think she listens to her advisors MOST of the time.  Listening and considering their opinion isn't the same as being led by them.  SHE is the ruler and makes the final decision.  I think she would indeed listen to Tyrion because what is being lost in this story with the grand gestures that we've seen from her in the past few seasons is that Dany is MASTERFUL at the short game.  She is a strategist and it is, in fact, how she came to power after being one with no power.  Tyrion will teach her Kings Landing, which she needs to know if she ever hopes to rule the whole kit and caboodle.

 

That said, my money has always been on the dark horse, Sansa.  Sansa is a student of the game and she is learning from the best and most ruthless.  Sansa is a Stark by birth and a Lannister by marriage.   I wonder how she'd fare against Dany.  That would be something to see.

[Timetoread]

It's too bad Dany and Robb never met: they both seem to be fans of justice at any cost.  Whatever happened to tossing somebody in prison and letting them rot for a while?  Execution or pardon aren't the only options.

Because these two crimes were punishable by death.  They aren't showing us the dude who didn't pay his ticket for parking his ox in a no parking zone.

[DrSpaceman]

 My fear with Dany, and it is no mystery, others have pointed it out basically as well, is that she favors decisions based on principle over what is practical.  And for the most part, in the end, those that make those decisions in this show end up dead. 

 

She did it again here.  He committed a crime, does not matter who against, so he must die.  And that provoked a riot and now the city that loved her is rebelling against her. 

 

Also I found it interesting that she stated about the first person, the one who murdered the unsullied last week, "He will have a fair trial prior to being executed".  In the end it did not matter, but its interesting wording.  She did not say IF HE IS FOUND GUILTY he would be executed, just he would have a trial, then be executed, implying the outcome of the trial may not have mattered.  Which is much the same as what Cersei did with Tyrion last season.