S01.E18: All Star Team Up

[benteen]

What's with Joe calling Barry but his real name in front of criminals?

 

Joe (and Barry) need to pay a serious price for their lying.  I hope I can trust the writers on this one...

[Xenith22]

They didn't break up.

They did not break up, but he told her that he loved her...and she fled the room without responding in kind.  Then she talked with her mother in the hall and re-affirmed that it was Oliver she still truly loved.  So seeing them here as a happy couple...it seemed really off.  Also strange was that the only mention of Oliver was that he might be joining the league of assassins (.  I would think that Oliver outed and arrested (and Roys subsequent arrest and claim to being the Arrow) would have been big news, and that Barry would have heard about it and ask about it or something?   So I kind of think we should then maybe assume that this episode took place before the previous episode of Arrow despite the previously clips they used from the hospital?

 

As far as Eddie and Iris, I don't get why he doesn't just tell her that he can't tell her because of her father.  Joe is the only one against telling her the truth...so let her be mad at the right person.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Xenith22

[BkWurm1]

Ray and Cisco were great together and yeah, Ray does work best IMO when he is allowed to be comedic (minus the dark angst that usually is surrounding him on Arrow making him feel wildly out of step with the tone of the show) 

 

I think they are saving any shrinking abilities for the proposed spin off, plus initially TPTB were writing for Ted Kord (Blue Beetle) but were told, nope, but you can have Ray Palmer!  Hence sticking to Iron Man lite right now but yeah, they keep dropping hints about how everything on his suit is shrunk down.  A flying suit is all very nice but Ray really loses points for not having built a waterproof one.  What if it rained?

 

And, as much as it pains me to say it, this is flat-out making me dislike Joe.  I actually wanted Eddie to deck Joe, when Joe snarled something like "When you become her husband!", after Eddie asked when does he have a say.

 

They've had Joe be unreasonable about Iris from the start.  I was really hoping after Joe served his "when you're her husband" line that Eddie would say, "It doesn't work like that."   Because it is INCREDIBLY insulting for them to be talking like Iris's life should be first controlled by Dad and then  passed off to Husband, completely skipping past the part where women have not been property for at least most of the last century.  When does Iris get a say?  Huh?  Answer me that. 

 

This tell everyone about Barry except Iris thing feels both incredibly archaic, misogynistic and just plain stupid. 

 

Speaking of telling everyone.  Not a fan that Felicity told Ray about Barry.  I can excuse it because clearly Barry's policy is simply "Not Iris"  Everyone else, eh, whatever.  Conversely, I have no problem with her telling Barry about Laurel (come on, she needs as much help as she can get) and what was going on with Oliver and Thea.  That felt like just catching Barry up on what's happening in Starling. 

 

Barry and Felicity continue to have a lovely friendship dynamic.  Honestly, they feel more like BFF's than Barry and Iris do.  And Felicity while desperately talking up Ray as practically perfect, seemed far more believably close to Barry.  Which, is as it should be IMO.  (In a platonic way)

 

And the worst offender. Cisco having dreams about an event that NEVER happened. Cisco didn't have a memory wipe, time was altered, the events that lead to Cisco's death were totally re-written. FFS!

 

Yeah, this really bothered me.  You can't have memories or dreams about something that never happened.  Barry changed the timeline.  Iris never found out about the suspicions against Wells, never passed them on to Barry and Cisco never got confronted by Wells.  It's not just erased from his memory, it is erased from history.  

 

They had better say that Cisco has some kind of power that explains this because I can accept a dude in a hood shooting Arrows, Bug Girl, rival Speedsters, meta humans sprinkled everywhere, and a talking Gorilla, but I can't accept a dream about an alternate timeline that was erased without some sort of explanations.  I will accept just about any kind of bullshit they want to throw at me, but they can't pretend it at all fits within any accepted parameters of multiverse or time travel theory. 

Edited April 15, 2015 by BkWurm1

[quarks]

Tell Iris already. 

 

Onwards:

 

Good things:

 

1. Cisco questioning the Atom name, even if he went back on this later.

 

2. Felicity's dropped mic moment. I laughed.

 

3. Loved the robot bees shaping themselves into the form of their programmer. That was fun. 

 

4. Liked Eddie telling Joe and Barry that he couldn't lie to Iris about this, and his "So everybody knows except Iris?" I'm with you, Eddie.

 

5. Really liked Iris telling Eddie at the end there that she needed to know the truth. I'm not sure that she actually has the right to know details about his police work, but I'm so irked by that storyline that I don't care. I liked it.

 

Also, her clothing rocked this episode.

 

6. Always good to see Tina McGee again.

 

7. And at least one secret got revealed - Caitlin and Cisco know about Wells. Even if Caitlin doesn't believe it yet.  But you know, if you can tell Caitlin, who is a lousy liar, that you think her boss is trying to kill you, you can tell Iris the truth.

 

8. And my favorite bit: Felicity lampshading the current hell that is the Arrow storyline. Heh.

 

Questionable things:

 

1. Not sure how Iris went from "Eddie won't tell me about his cop work even though I'm a journalist, although come to think of it that might be a conflict of interest," to "Eddie is cheating on me."

 

2. Ray Palmer was much better over here than on Arrow, and I liked his stuff with Cisco, but look, Flash/Arrow, if you need five characters to assure me that Ray's a really good guy, and you need to have Felicity say that Ray isn't as creepy as his sounds, maybe Ray isn't a really good guy and is as creepy as he sounds. And that probably would have come off better if we hadn't just seen the guy kick out every other patron of a restaurant where Iris says you need months for a dinner reservation.

 

3. Yikes. That dinner was painful to watch on so many levels.

 

Bad things:

 

1. Wait. What. The ATOM suit isn't waterproof? What?

 

2. Tell Iris. Tell Iris. While I'm at it, maybe you should tell Iris. And then, you should tell Iris.

 

As Eddie kindly lampshaded for us, at this point Caitlin, Cisco, Joe, Not Actually Wells, Felicity, Oliver, Diggle, Roy, Lyla, Captain Cold, Eddie, Ray Palmer, Ronnie, Dr. Stein, Dr. Stein's wife, the Pied Piper guy and everyone at ARGUS now knows. This is worse than the number of people who knew about Oliver by the end of season two, and I think worse than the number of people who knew before Laurel did - and Oliver had really good reasons not to tell Laurel.

 

This has reached the point where it's now hurting Iris and Eddie, and even, to a lesser extent, Ray, Felicity and Barry. And worse, Joe, your insistence on this is making a lot of other people uncomfortable. I'm not a Ray fan, but I honestly did feel for him, getting stuck at a table with those two as things got worse.

 

Tell Iris.

 

I could be dwelling on this a bit too much.

[In2You]

When they first described this villain I thought it was Queen Bee. Then I realized it was the Bug Eyed Bandit only because of Atom.

 

Tina McGee was really not needed in this episode and didnt really enhance the story. In fact this story has been stagnant and barley advances week to week.

 

The use of Iris in this episode was pitiful. 

 

How does Cisco remember what happened in a timeline that got erased by Iris doesnt?

 

I don't watch "Arrow", but why is the Atom a robot-suited guy instead of a shrinking superhero?  He was a college professor, not a billionaire, as I remember from the 70s comic books.  Why re-invent an existing character completely instead of just creating a new one?

 

Well the New 52 and this show did the same with Barry Allen. All of a sudden in Flashpoint his backstory included a dead mother who had to stay dead or else he would never become The Flash.

[BkWurm1]

They did not break up, but he told her that he loved her...and she fled the room without responding in kind.  Then she talked with her mother in the hall and re-affirmed that it was Oliver she still truly loved.  So seeing them here as a happy couple...it seemed really off.  Also strange was that the only mention of Oliver was that he might be joining the league of assassins.

 

That was episode 3.18 of the Arrow.  This episode of The Flash 1.18 was supposed to have happened before 3.18 but the network messed up the timing of the episodes (so Flash is now behind by one week)   Technically to make the timeline work, Felicity and Ray going to CC had to have happened near the end of 3.17  - after they made up from their big fight  but before they then had that meeting at the Mayor's office (since that slid right into the opening on 3.18)   Taking off for a break in Central City for a few days between those two events makes the timeline work.   But should the viewers really be the ones that have to explain the timeline?  That fail is on both the network ( for messing with the schedule) and the shows' producers/writers for not spelling it out on Arrow.  

 

As much as the show runners said you wouldn't have to watch both shows to understand what is going on, yeah, it's a much lesser experience IMO if you don't.  

[opus]

When they first described this villain I thought it was Queen Bee. Then I realized it was the Bug Eyed Bandit only because of Atom.

 

Marvel actually has the best bee villain name. Swarm.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I don't watch the Arrow so I continue to be perplexed by these people who we are supposed to be familiar with popping up from these other shows. I have always thought that the actor who played the Atom is a terrible actor who ruined the Superman movie. 

In fairness to BR, I'd venture to say that with the plot, not even Christopher Reeve could have saved that that movie. At least I didn't want to see Superman as a stalker baby daddy.

 

Still don't understand how Barry miraculously connected Wells to RF.

 

In the Trickster episode, after Barry stupidly let two regular-speed villains monologue and strap a bomb to his wrist and turn it on, Wells explained to Barry how to vibrate through things. The way he did it, Barry deduced, wasn't just a theoretical thing. He sounded like someone who had done it already and was speaking from experience.

 

Speaking of which, even assuming for the moment that the bees were able to keep pace with Barry somehow, it's another Flash fail that he didn't use his vibration ability to escape. 

[Xenith22]

I don't watch "Arrow", but why is the Atom a robot-suited guy instead of a shrinking superhero?  He was a college professor, not a billionaire, as I remember from the 70s comic books.  Why re-invent an existing character completely instead of just creating a new one?

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, Ray Palmer was supposed to be Ted Kord.  They wrote this whole Ray Palmer plot out with Ted Kord in mind, and then at some point DC told them they could not use the character, and they did not bother to really change him at all.

-  Ted Kord is a millionaire/billionaire who owns his own company.

- Ted Kord had a romantic relationship with Oracle (who Felicity is often compared to)

- Ted Kord was a genius inventor whose creations included power armor (although for others not himself)

- The current Blue Beetle (Jamie Reyes) has armor, flies, and shoots electricity.

- Ted Kord has a not very serious personality.

 

On a completely different note...is there any comics basis to Flash being able to manifest electricity like he used to act as a defib in this episode?  I can not recall that being one of the speed force powers?

-

Edited April 15, 2015 by Xenith22

[Artsda]

Great episode, loved Ray and Felicity appearing. Also Emily Kinney from Walking Dead, such a different look compared to what I'm used to. She looked like a different person.  

 

Felicity's line about it's supposed to be lighter in Starling was hilarious. She and Ray were great together on this episode. 

 

I  don't understand at this point why they don't tell Iris since everyone else she knows is in on it. 

[driedfruit]

As far as Eddie and Iris, I don't get why he doesn't just tell her that he can't tell her because of her father.  Joe is the only one against telling her the truth...so let her be mad at the right person.

 

Iris is mad at the right person, there's just more than one of them. In lying to Iris for Joe's sake, Eddie is choosing to value his relationship with Joe over his relationship over Iris, so even Iris knew it wouldn't make her anger at Eddie any less valid. It's not like Joe is holding Eddie at gunpoint.

 

All the comments defending Eddie wig me out. How is it that some guy is lying to his girlfriend about every aspect of her life, and yet he is the victim? How does that make sense?

Edited April 15, 2015 by driedfruit

[bluebonnet]

 

On a completely different note...is there any comics basis to Flash being able to manifest electricity like he used to act as a defib in this episode?  I can not recall that being one of the speed force powers?

 

There was a defib built into his suit.  

[Xenith22]

There was a defib built into his suit.  

Yeah for when he got stung the first time.  But the defib feature was still busted when Cisco got stung at the end...so that is what I am talking about how Barry just "tried something" and managed to apparently generate his own electricity to shock him?   That's what I was asking about because it seemed a little out of nowhere?

[Artsda]

Great episode, loved Ray and Felicity appearing. Also Emily Kinney from Walking Dead, such a different look compared to what I'm used to. She looked like a different person.  

 

Felicity's line about it's supposed to be lighter in Starling was hilarious. She and Ray were great together on this episode. 

 

I  don't understand at this point why they don't tell Iris since everyone else she knows is in on it. 

[Latverian Diplomat]

Speaking of which, even assuming for the moment that the bees were able to keep pace with Barry somehow, it's another Flash fail that he didn't use his vibration ability to escape. 

 

Or even just break a window and get away? They are really inconsistent about how fast and capable Barry is. He was inserting and removing people from cars instantaneously, and yet he can't find his way out of a building on his own? For that matter, large public buildings tend to have very clearly marked exits, it's kind of a thing with them. They just showed a whole crowd of people evacuating the very same building with no trouble at all.

 

Look I realize that Flash's super-speed is so incredible that some inconsistency is required for him to have any difficulty at all, but their story template seems to require Barry getting his ass kicked the first time he encounters any villain, which seems to require selective, convenient stupidity on his part.

 

With this "secret keeping" business, Iris was channeling Lana Lang from Smallville. If she starts wearing all pink, time to run away.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Latverian Diplomat

[Actionmage]

How is it that some guy is lying to his girlfriend about every aspect of her life, and yet he is the victim? How does that make sense?

 

For me, especially in light of that unexpected statement from Joe, Eddie is truly caught in the middle between his work partner and his not-quite-wife and partner's daughter.  Eddie signed up for trying not to talk about he and Iris' private time, not keeping an insanely out-of-control secret from Iris.

 

I don't see Eddie as a victim, but I don't see him as a villain, either. It's a hard call and I think Eddie is vamping until he can come up with something better than lying. He just can't think of one just yet and it is costing him Iris. Plus, Eddie, to date, has  been a good guy. He is paying heavily for knowing the secret for less time than Joe and Barry. That may play into some folks' feeling badly for Eddie.  It does for me.

 

I was hoping for a misunderstanding/talking past one another scene and Eddie was going to tell Iris Barry's secret. It would be funny and awful and cause some chaos. Joe's earned it.

 

I was also wondering if Iris' concern over Eddie possibly cheating on her is Iris' version of Cisco's memory/dreams? She may not get as vivid a dream as Cisco, but she feels there's been a betrayal of some kind, so with Eddie being weird, Iris thinks he's cheating? Otherwise, how do you make the leap from living with Eddie to 'Is he cheating?'

 

Add me to wanting to have Tina McGee as den mother. She seems like a cool character and more science-y ladies is a good thing. (Also, Henry meeting Tina could be awesome, as others have noted.)

 

Ray/Brandon Routh  was better here. The writing was still proppy for him, but Cisco did actually save him, literally and character-wise, imo. Science geeks are geeky is fun.

 

I'm looking forward to the next five episodes with hope and excitement! 

[driedfruit]

For me, especially in light of that unexpected statement from Joe, Eddie is truly caught in the middle between his work partner and his not-quite-wife and partner's daughter.  Eddie signed up for trying not to talk about he and Iris' private time, not keeping an insanely out-of-control secret from Iris.

 

I don't see Eddie as a victim, but I don't see him as a villain, either. It's a hard call and I think Eddie is vamping until he can come up with something better than lying. He just can't think of one just yet and it is costing him Iris. Plus, Eddie, to date, has  been a good guy. He is paying heavily for knowing the secret for less time than Joe and Barry. That may play into some folks' feeling badly for Eddie.  It does for me.

 

 

If it was just this one secret, I'd agree. But Eddie had no reason to lie to Iris about Mason, and that was far from a small lie. In fact, that bit of lying is controlling Iris' larger life/her work life and might have terrible consequences for her, say if she came upon Mason's investigation and decided to pursue it, not knowing the Reverse Flash would be out to kill her for looking into Wells. Yeah, he doesn't feel good about the decisions he's making, but he's making them. He is 100% accountable for the same shady stuff he's ragging on Joe for, so to me he's also a villain in this case.

[CabotCove]

Rather than headline his own show, I'd rather Ray join Team Flash.  He and Cisco are adorable together and his earnest geekiness meshes well with the rest of the characters.

 

I think he may be quite too much like Cisco to be on the same show. I would rather he stay on Arrow or be on the spin off, personally. I feel he will get more balance there otherwise he starts to feel OTT for me.

 

Ray and Cisco were great together and yeah, Ray does work best IMO when he is allowed to be comedic (minus the dark angst that usually is surrounding him on Arrow making him feel wildly out of step with the tone of the show)

 

I dont see much difference to how he is written on Arrow and here, he still comedic in Arrow and hasnt really had much to be angst about there. Except that his fiance died, he seems to be a happy, non complicated guy. 

 

 

Tina McGee was really not needed in this episode and didnt really enhance the story. In fact this story has been stagnant and barley advances week to week.

 

I think she provided or will provide the key to Barry discovering that Wells actually is literally someone else: Eobard Thawne. I want to see more of Tina.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Conell

[GreyBunny]

So I watched my first Flash episode and probably my last.  Not impressed.  

 

Iris was annoying.  All Eddie has to say is that he's bound by regulations to keep certain things confidential, no different than the patient confidentiality clauses doctors and other health care workers have to abide by.  If she can't accept that then kick her to the curb.

[XtremeOne1]

So I watched my first Flash episode and probably my last.  Not impressed.  

 

Iris was annoying.  All Eddie has to say is that he's bound by regulations to keep certain things confidential, no different than the patient confidentiality clauses doctors and other health care workers have to abide by.  If she can't accept that then kick her to the curb.

 

So you watch episode 18 and say, "Hey, I'm annoyed by these character motivations" without knowing the characters? You've got to have 17 episodes to realize how Iris might be fed up with this crap

[GreyBunny]

Don't care.  One episode was enough.  if she can't accept Eddie has professional secrets he needs to keep then she needs to get lost.

 

17 more episodes of "TELLMETELLMETELLME!" Is only going to annoy me.  Not worth the hassle.

Edited April 15, 2015 by GreyBunny

[CabotCove]

I don't watch "Arrow", but why is the Atom a robot-suited guy instead of a shrinking superhero?  He was a college professor, not a billionaire, as I remember from the 70s comic books.  Why re-invent an existing character completely instead of just creating a new one? 

 

We dont entirely know that he will never be a shrinking hero, like ever. And they could always make a throw-line that he used to be a college professor, you know how Flarrow loves their easter eggs. I dont think its a complete reboot therefore no need to make a new character Imo. There is always the spin off and time to bring the character close to his comic roots. I would say this Barry Allen is quite different from the one in comics too, also Oliver,Iris,Laurel etc . To add on Atom/Ray really is far more obscure, therefore not much material to work with, a modern re-imagination could also be due for him. 

 

Lastly Felicity gets the best line of the night. "She's like a nemesis. I've never  had a nemesis! I kind of like it!

 

It would be funnier if it was actually true, she had the Clock king last season. These writers' and their (dis) continuity..

 

Speaking of secrets, WTF with Felicity telling Ray about Barry's identity.  Ray might be trustworthy (the writers wants us to ignore that he's a liar and a stalker) but Felicity has no right to tell anybody she wants about Barry's secret without his permission.

 

 

She also told Barry other people's secrets, three of them,  so why is this one such a big deal. Ray is her boyfriend, they are in a relationship she got in a bind by not telling him Oliver was the Arrow in the last episodes of Arrow, its just seems reasonable she wouldnt keep more stuff from him. Its not like Ray is still an "ordinary" civilian he is now part of the vigilante club business. He is a liar?, interesting considering how many characters are lying in this show, episode in and episode out. Disagree he is a stalker too if some other characters can get away with similar actions or worse. None of them are completely perfect at the end of the day. 

Edited April 15, 2015 by Conell

[driedfruit]

I think he may be quite too much like Cisco to be on the same show. I would rather he stay on Arrow or be on the spin off, personally. I feel he will get more balance there otherwise he starts to feel OTT for me.

 

I'd rather he stays away from Flash too. He's not needed and there are too many male characters already.

Edited April 15, 2015 by driedfruit

[BkWurm1]

Ray and Cisco were great together and yeah, Ray does work best IMO when he is allowed to be comedic (minus the dark angst that usually is surrounding him on Arrow making him feel wildly out of step with the tone of the show)

 

 

I dont see much difference to how he is written on Arrow and here, he still comedic in Arrow and hasnt really had much to be angst about there. Except that his fiance died, he seems to be a happy, non complicated guy.

 

   I don't disagree about how Ray has mostly been written as comedic, but as I went on to say, he being comedic doesn't really work when he's so out of step with the tone of the rest of the show.  It's hard for me to find Ray amusing when everyone around him was barely holding it together.  Too many times we had Palmer cracking bad jokes while Felicity was trying not to weep.  I think he could really work on a show of his own where they can set a common tone and not keep him isolated and out of step with how the other character are reacting.   It's one thing to make a joke or be flippant in the face of something awful but only made him look clueless when he was so blithely unaware.

 

 

Yeah for when he got stung the first time.  But the defib feature was still busted when Cisco got stung at the end...so that is what I am talking about how Barry just "tried something" and managed to apparently generate his own electricity to shock him?   That's what I was asking about because it seemed a little out of nowhere?

 

I don't know comics but at least the idea of creating a static charge seemed scientifically plausible, though honestly it would have made more sense to me to zip him to a proper hospital and if need be borrow their paddles.  

Edited April 15, 2015 by BkWurm1

[InsertWordHere]

I don't get why they felt the need to have Cisco remember the alt timeline events when Cisco was already suspicious of Wells before those events and only stopped being suspicious because they didn't find a sample of his blood at the crime scene. I feel like he would have reacted the exact same way to Barry's allegations even if he hadn't been experiencing those flashes of memory. Unless they're just doing this to show that Cisco is developing powers as people were discussing upthread. Still, it wasn't needed and the already established plot would have worked just as well. I also don't get why Joe didn't tell Barry that since Cisco had been suspicious of Wells in the past, Barry should stop worrying so much about bringing him up to speed. I get the worry over Caitlin, but not Cisco.  

[Oscirus]

Characters aren't being developed, but, we have time for crossovers.

Relationships aren't being developed, but, we have time for crossovers.

storyline is barely moving along, bu,t we have time for crossovers.

 

Most new shows would try to build on their audience, the writers on this show are apparently so arrogant that they think they can flood this show with Arrow/Atom storylines/characters and that despite the fact that it affects the quality of this show, that good things will happen.

 

All Star Team up? Are you kidding me with that name? Atom is not an All Star.

 

Barry treats Iris like a child and apparently does things in hopes of being with her. Eddie actually treats Iris nice and feels guilty about lying to her. Why am I supposed to be rooting for West Allen? I'll just save the rest of Iris stuff for the Iris thread but suffice it to say I'm not pleased with it.

 

I'll give them points for having a female criminal with an actual motive.

 

I'm over Felicity coming to Central City without arrow. They up her quirkiness to a 10 and it gets old really quick.

 

Ray was fine and he would probably fit on this show alright. I'm just not a fan. He's a bit too "perfect" for my liking.

 

Is Joe so determined to keep secrets that he forgot that a couple of weeks ago that he enlisted Cisco to help investigate Wells?

 

Also, good luck getting Caitlin to act normal around Wells.

 

Finally, stop with the meta crap! It's not clever.

 

 

[BkWurm1]

You know what I don't get is why Eddie couldn't have admitted that he and Joe were working with the Flash.  He doesn't have to tell Iris he knows who the Flash is, just that he was helping out.   That's a big secret from the rest of the department that he could tell Iris and she'd stop freaking out.  I was on the side of Iris and I am when it comes to her right to know and to be informed on things that greatly affect her life and this stuff does BUT Iris doesn't know that and at dinner Eddie flat out tells her he can't tell but that if he could, he would tell her.   And she still stalks off.   She's reacting fine IMO with what is being kept from her except they are not getting across to me why she thinks Eddie is keeping from her something she needs to know. 

 

If she thought it was cheating, would he openly tell her he would tell her if he could?  Honestly, I don't think Iris would really react in these circumstances like this.  Yes, if she thinks he's hiding something but once he admits there is a secret, but it's not something he's allowed to share...would she really still serve him an ultimatum?  Unless she's looking for excuses to break up with him., actually I could fanwank that.  She is already supposed to be thinking about Barry at least on some level and maybe that would prompt her to narrow her eyes and pick apart Eddie. 

 

Problem is, I really don't think he deserves the ultimatum, at least for what Iris might be imagining.  At the very least he should be able to throw Joe to the wolves.  If Joe won't let Eddie fill Iris in, then Eddie should have the right to say, ask your father.  Eh, it's complicated.

 

The thing I'm afraid will happen is by keeping Barry's secret, Eddie will lose Iris and then Eddie will blame Barry and go evil and it will all be for no good reason.  

Edited April 15, 2015 by BkWurm1

[BkWurm1]

Best line of the night:

 

"You just died."

"Maybe you should order in tonight."

[cambridgeguy]

So I guess Ray was planning to take the night off whenever it rains?  Between that and his exposed power source he really needs to fine tune that suit.

[FurryFury]

I was all but ready to drop the show for good, but I've surprisingly enjoyed this episode. Mostly because I still like Felicity more than any character on this show and because it was a break from this season's arc which I emphatically don't enjoy (all the Wells reveals were so much worse than anything I could come up with). Ray was OK (this is my first time seeing him as I don't follow Arrow anymore), Cisco continues to be great and the highlight were all the Barry/Felicity scenes, I really enjoy their friendship and chemistry. Iris and Caitlyn aren't anywhere close.

 

Speaking about Iris... Holy shit, poor Eddie. I feel SO bad for him. He's stuck between a rock and a hard place - either he risks Joe and Barry being mad at him or Iris dumps him (and really, I didn't like her ultimatum. I generally hate ultimatums in relationships, they suck). God why must everything Iris be about romance? Couldn't they let her just be Barry's BFF and a journalist?

 

The fandom nods were funny. Eddies "So everyone knows except Iris?", allusions to Ray being creepy (a constant criticism I see on Arrow boards), Iris never being at work... Although I'd really prefer if instead of lampshading it steps were taken to improve these aspects.

 

I have to agree after watching most of Daredevil, The Flash seems like I'm watching a Saturday morning cartoon, of course The 100 makes Arrow and Flash seem like cartoons as well. It doesn't have to be dark and gritty but it shouldn't be stupid and childish either.

I'd agree, but the no killing stuff on Daredevil really pisses me off, considering all the grittiness. It just makes so much more sense on The Flash with its lighter tone. Of course, I still haven't finished DD, so maybe my criticism is preemptive.

Edited April 15, 2015 by FurryFury

[SimoneS]

Characters aren't being developed, but, we have time for crossovers.

Relationships aren't being developed, but, we have time for crossovers.

storyline is barely moving along, bu,t we have time for crossovers.

 

As someone who does not watch Arrow, etc., I find these crossovers damn annoying. These characters are plopped into The Flash and its audience is supposed to know who they are, their back stories, and care about them. IMO, The Flash is too new a show to carry the burden of propping up the lower rated Arrow, plus the creation of new shows in the franchise. Instead of trying to make more money, the showrunners/creators need to concentrate on developing The Flash or it will collapse before it truly gets off the ground. 

[driedfruit]

You know what I don't get is why Eddie couldn't have admitted that he and Joe were working with the Flash.  He doesn't have to tell Iris he knows who the Flash is, just that he was helping out.   That's a big secret from the rest of the department that he could tell Iris and she'd stop freaking out.  I was on the side of Iris and I am when it comes to her right to know and to be informed on things that greatly affect her life and this stuff does BUT Iris doesn't know that and at dinner Eddie flat out tells her he can't tell but that if he could, he would tell her.   And she still stalks off.   She's reacting fine IMO with what is being kept from her except they are not getting across to me why she thinks Eddie is keeping from her something she needs to know. 

 

It's not that Iris needs to know about Flash helping Eddie, that's not the point. We've seen him brush her off when it comes to police info all the time. The real problem was that Eddie wasn't fine with lying to Iris on the regular basis and as a result over the weeks between the past episode and this one, the two have grown apart. Hence why Iris assumed he was cheating on her.  

 

A live-in significant other suddenly started acting strange and distant and waves it off as a secret he/she can't tell is a red flag. Iris deciding she can't deal with that and wants out is understandable. 

 

I know the show didn't do a good job at fleshing it out, but Iris/Eddie got three short scenes this episode and barely have any scenes ever so it's as good as can be expected given the budget/time constraints and crossover quotas.

Edited April 15, 2015 by driedfruit

[jah1986]

I really enjoyed this episode, especially Cisco's realization at the end.  I don't watch Arrow so I really enjoyed seeing Felicity again and I'm probably the only person in the world that didn't hate Brandon Routh as Superman so it was nice to see him too.

 

I don't understand the logic that not telling Iris the truth about the Flash is protecting her. As long as Joe is using Barry's real name in public and Barry keeps taking off his mask, Iris is in danger because of other people knowing who the Flash is.  If she knows she can protect herself instead of being an unsuspecting pawn.

 

I can't shake the feeling every time Barry tells someone his suspicions about Wells that Wells is somewhere listening to the conversation.  In a way I'm glad Barry told Caitlin and Cisco about Wells, but they are the worst liars ever they'll never be able to fool him.

 

Can't wait until next week.

[Sakura12]

I don't understand the logic that not telling Iris the truth about the Flash is protecting her. As long as Joe is using Barry's real name in public and Barry keeps taking off his mask, Iris is in danger because of other people knowing who the Flash is.  If she knows she can protect herself instead of being an unsuspecting pawn.

 

That's exactly my problem, Barry's running around telling everyone including villains he's the Flash. That makes the bad guys know that that Barry is close with Iris and that puts Iris in even more danger because she doesn't know who those people are. Telling everyone but her is putting her in more danger. This is so stupid. It's either a secret identity or it's not. It can't only be a secret identity to ONE PERSON!

[kirkola]

I actually quite like Brandon Routh.  His Superman turn isn't his fault.  Not even Kevin Spacey (whom I adore) made it better.  As Ray Palmer, I'm more than a bit confused by what the A.T.O.M. is supposed to be.  Admittedly I don't read the comics, so I pick up bits and pieces from my brothers (who do read the comics) and the threads here.  But, BR was much better here on The Flash than he's been on Arrow.  This episode actually worked.  I don't even mind the still-fine-tuning-the-suit (not waterproof? power issues?). 

 

The only problem is that he still feels added-on in both shows.  Like a completely unnecessary addition. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[In2You]

Characters aren't being developed, but, we have time for crossovers.

Relationships aren't being developed, but, we have time for crossovers.

storyline is barely moving along, bu,t we have time for crossovers.

 

Most new shows would try to build on their audience, the writers on this show are apparently so arrogant that they think they can flood this show with Arrow/Atom storylines/characters and that despite the fact that it affects the quality of this show, that good things will happen.

 

All Star Team up? Are you kidding me with that name? Atom is not an All Star.

 

I thought I was the only one who didn't care for all the crossovers. None of The Flash characters are developed enough for this and it takes away from them. Also not everyone who watches this show cares to watch Arrow.

[TVHappy9463]

As much as I love Ray and Felicity not really sure they were necessary for The Flash to move it's story forward last night.  Speaking of story thy are moving this along pretty quickly. My hope is they can separate Wells from the Evil Doctor ( can't remember how to spell his name) I want to Tom to stay on the show, and they need Dr. Wells in the group.  Last scene with Barry, Joe, Caitlin and Cisco was worth the first 50 minutes.  

[cynic]

The father/boyfriend conversation was gross and tainted this entire episode for me. Plus, it made me seriously dislike Joe.

I'm one of the few people who like Iris and Candice Patton, but I'm getting tired of the way the show writes women in general and Iris as the most prominent female and the one that is in the stereotypical role of 'love interest' suffers the brunt of the writers' issues with women. For the record, I have no issue with Iris being upset with Eddie. His secret clearly wasn't as simple as police business, because he was acting all kinds of squirrelly and guilty. However, I didn't like the dinner nagging or the ultimatum. Of course Iris has to act like that to bring the men folk into conflict about what they should do about the little lady. Sigh.

I don't watch Arrow and I could care less about any of its characters, including Felicity. Everytime she shows up, I feel like I'm being punked or something. The show and people everywhere keep telling me how awesome Felicity is, but she does nothing for me. I like that she seems nice and competent, but other than that ehh. Her quirkiness seems kinda forced and the supposed funny lines like the nemesis and drop the mic comments didn't even make me smile. Plus, she's cute and all, but I don't get the comments about her hotness. She's attractive, but so is every other actress on the CW. It's kinda a job requirement. All that's to say, I'm over the crossovers. If I want more Felicity, I'll watch Arrow.

Beth was fine. I was worried, since I didn't like her much on Walking Dead, but her character here didn't get much screen time anyway. I can't really complain. At least she didn't sing!

[SimoneS]

I'm one of the few people who like Iris and Candice Patton, but I'm getting tired of the way the show writes women in general and Iris as the most prominent female and the one that is in the stereotypical role of 'love interest' suffers the brunt of the writers' issues with women. For the record, I have no issue with Iris being upset with Eddie. His secret clearly wasn't as simple as police business, because he was acting all kinds of squirrelly and guilty. However, I didn't like the dinner nagging or the ultimatum. Of course Iris has to act like that to bring the men folk into conflict about what they should do about the little lady. Sigh.

 

I think that a lot of people like Iris, I certainly do. I also think that Candace Patton is one of the best leading ladies that the CW has had in forever. At first, I did not have a problem with Barry and Joe keeping his secret from Iris since it is a well used comic book trope. But it is now indefensible as just about everyone else in their circle now knows other than Iris. It is also is insane that Joe and Barry have not told Iris to be careful because Wells is dangerous.

 

I don't think that it is coincidental that this show is created and written by a team of men. The way that Iris has been treated as a damsel in distress (Caitlin also to some extent) by the men in her life seems to come straight out of some 1950s male playbook.

 

ETA: I hope Amanda Pays' character becomes a regular. She could take over as the team's genius scientist and mentor once Wells is exposed and rejected. 

Edited April 15, 2015 by SimoneS

[peachmangosteen]

The only person who wants to tell Iris is Eddie, and he's the only person she's mad at for not talking.  Is this their way of breaking them up so that Barry ends up with Iris?  Because I have to say, I like Iris/Eddie a lot more than I like Barry/Iris.

 

I hate how they're going about breaking up Eddie/Iris and making Eddie evil. So stupid and annoying. I, too, much prefer Eddie/Iris to Barry/Iris and just Eddie in general to Barry. Although, that's on me, obviously Barry is the lead and Barry/Iris is endgame so I knew what I was getting into, but I expected better than this bullshit with Eddie.

 

Barry treats Iris like a child and apparently does things in hopes of being with her. Eddie actually treats Iris nice and feels guilty about lying to her. Why am I supposed to be rooting for West Allen?

 

This. This so much. This whole thing makes little sense to me if Barry/Iris is supposed to be endgame, which they obviously are. Barry is awful and Iris should honestly hate him and never trust him when she finds out. Also, Iris not being clued into Barry lying but immediately knowing Eddie is doesn't say much about her relationship with Barry. Or it says Barry is a great liar, which doesn't say much about Barry and doesn't make me want him and Iris to be together at all. I'm gonna be so pissed when Iris/Eddie break up over this and yet Iris eventually forgives Barry and falls for him. Hate it.

Edited April 15, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Chicago Redshirt]

Yeah for when he got stung the first time.  But the defib feature was still busted when Cisco got stung at the end...so that is what I am talking about how Barry just "tried something" and managed to apparently generate his own electricity to shock him?   That's what I was asking about because it seemed a little out of nowhere?

According to Wikipedia, the Speed Force has allowed speedsters to do a pretty wide range of things, although "generate lightning from one's hands" isn't listed among them specifically. Certainly part of the way in comics speedsters are shown involves crackling electricity/energy trails, so I don't think it's too out of bounds.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_Force

[FurryFury]

My hope is they can separate Wells from the Evil Doctor ( can't remember how to spell his name) I want to Tom to stay on the show, and they need Dr. Wells in the group.

 

I don't give a damn about original Dr. Wells. Yeah, Tom's great, but it is his current character that's on the show and has all these relationships with other character. The original Wells is a completely different person who just happens to look like that. That's literally the only thing he got going for him.

 

ETA: I hope Amanda Pays' character becomes a regular. She could take over as the team's genius scientist and mentor once Wells is exposed and rejected.

 

Now this, I wouldn't mind. There aren't nearly enough women on this show, and especially an older and capable woman in a position of power would be welcome.

[sjohnson]

Defibrillation may restart a heart but it does nothing to reduce swelling of throat and lungs that block sufficient respiration. 

[Sakura12]

I completely forgot about but someone brought it up in the Arrow forum.

 

“Oliver might be joining the LoA, Laurel´s The Black Canary, and Thea is training with Malcolm. So I know about bad times!”

 

Haha, Felicity's including Laurel with the bad times Starling City is having. Agreed, Felicity. 

 

I guess that was their stupid way to catch up non-Arrow viewers with what's happening. 

[Jack Kerouac]

On the one hand, not telling Iris seems utterly stupid at this point.

 

On the other, Iris saying people in love tell each other EVERYTHING is utterly stupid as well. People in love keep secrets all the time. Eddie should just say that the secret is not his to tell and leave it at that. Or tell her that he DOES know the Flash's identity, but he cannot tell her because, once again, it's not his secret.

 

Or, you know, Barry could tell her and stop all this crap right away.

[Sakura12]

I get why Eddie's hesitant, it's not his secret to tell. What makes him better than Barry in my eyes is he at least feels guilty about it and keeps asking them why they are not telling her and doesn't agree that it's "protecting" her. I'm about ready to have him tell Iris "Ask your father and Barry why I can't tell you what's going on with me, They told me not to tell you. It's not my secret, it's theirs to tell."  

[cambridgeguy]

There are now TWO recurring characters who don't know Barry's identity - Captain Singh and Dr. McGee.  I wonder if either one will find out before Iris.  While she certainly hasn't acted like it the funniest thing in the world would be if Iris had figured this out a long time ago and has been waiting to rip Barry a new one when he finally does fess up.  She certainly could have done so after the Trickster thing - Barry didn't vibrate his voice and it's odd that the Flash would be so interested in saving convicted murderer Henry Allen.

[statsgirl]

I wonder if they are trying to show how sweet, innocent and guileless Eddie is right now - he is really, really uncomfortable keeping this from Iris and he really really seems to love her. I wonder if this is happening to set up a contrast between Eddie now and Eddie at a later date. I fear something bad is gonna happen to him - whether that's RF doing something to him or him turning to the dark side because being "forced" to keep Barry's secret is what ultimately causes him to lose Iris.

They're not handling this well, IMO, because in this situation, my sympathy is all for Eddie who is trying to balance his loyalty to his partner with his relationship with Iris.  Everyone else, including Felicity here, is happily lying to her.

 

It's too bad that as Felicity was in CC anyway, she didn't say something about the problems lying to Thea and Quentin caused on Arrow.  I would have preferred that than her saying that Eddie should just think of it as fibbing to protect Iris.  It's a bad situation that is bringing down everyone connected with it, including Iris herself who comes across as a shrew.

 

They've had Joe be unreasonable about Iris from the start.  I was really hoping after Joe served his "when you're her husband" line that Eddie would say, "It doesn't work like that."   Because it is INCREDIBLY insulting for them to be talking like Iris's life should be first controlled by Dad and then  passed off to Husband, completely skipping past the part where women have not been property for at least most of the last century.  When does Iris get a say?  Huh?  Answer me that. 

It is so bizarre with these EPs. On one hand, they create great female characters like Sara, Moira and Felicity (jury's still out on Caitlin and Iris), and then they get incredibly misogynistic about women on the show generally.

 

She also told Barry other people's secrets, three of them,  so why is this one such a big deal. Ray is her boyfriend, they are in a relationship she got in a bind by not telling him Oliver was the Arrow in the last episodes of Arrow, its just seems reasonable she wouldnt keep more stuff from him. Its not like Ray is still an "ordinary" civilian he is now part of the vigilante club business.

Also, she needed an explanation why she would take him to Cisco to fix his suit.

 

And on that note, why did Ray fly into Central City?  Does he want to advertise to everyone The Atom and Ray Palmer are there at the same time?

[nottopbravo]

Just before Barry came in and grabbed the robot bee to save Wells, was Wells going to stand up, or was he going to kick the bee with his super speed?  I saw his leg start to move. 

Edited April 15, 2015 by nottopbravo

[Primetimer]

Barry doesn't know whom to trust -- aside from one visitor from Starling City.

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