The DC Extended Universe: To Thanagar and Beyond!

[Dee]

Seeing as Michael B. Jordan is in the running to be cast as Superman, physical fitness won't be a problem.

[JessePinkman]

48 minutes ago, Dee said:

Seeing as Michael B. Jordan is in the running to be cast as Superman, physical fitness won't be a problem.

I'll give my right arm if they end up casting a black man as American Jesus.

[Amethyst]

Well, this isn't promising.  Cavill may not be the best actor, but the material didn't do him any favors.  It looked like they were finally striking a good balance for Superman in Justice League.  Although anything was better than the crap that was BvS.

[stealinghome]

20 minutes ago, JessePinkman said:

I'll give my right arm if they end up casting a black man as American Jesus.

Unfortunately, I agree. I would love to be wrong, but I think there's a snowball's chance in hell that the WB would greenlight a black Supes.

It's amazing how inept and lacking a plan/vision the WB is. I swear, they could pay me millions of dollars to come up with the "plans" they've come up with.

[Trini]

1 hour ago, Dee said:

Seeing as Michael B. Jordan is in the running to be cast as Superman, physical fitness won't be a problem.

I saw that rumor, and I don't believe it for a second.

Meanwhile, WB and Cavill's team are saying, essentially, things aren't finalized yet. So there's still a chance they work things out.

[Peace 47]

Grace from the Beyond the Trailer YouTube channel said that the story about Warner Brothers replacing Cavill was a hardball negotiating tactic because Cavill and Warner Brothers have been battling over his Superman contract (which she has been reporting for awhile).

She said that Cavill first played hardball by refusing to do the Shazam cameo until WB caved to his demands, and WB got fed up and planted this story about replacing Cavill (which they could still very well do if Cavill doesn’t agree to their terms).  As @Trini noted above, Cavill’s agent (Dwayne Johnson’s ex-wife and business partner) tweeted that Cavill is still Superman, for whatever that all is worth.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Peace 47

[Jediknight]

8 hours ago, Dee said:

Seeing as Michael B. Jordan is in the running to be cast as Superman, physical fitness won't be a problem.

Cavill did post a video on his Instagram of him lifting up a Superman figure in a box, the box was a Killmonger box.

Jordan would be a great Superman.  I'm hoping Cavill stays, because if WB were to make Superman actually act like Superman, like they did in Justice League, Cavill would continue to nail it.

6 hours ago, stealinghome said:

Unfortunately, I agree. I would love to be wrong, but I think there's a snowball's chance in hell that the WB would greenlight a black Supes.

It's amazing how inept and lacking a plan/vision the WB is. I swear, they could pay me millions of dollars to come up with the "plans" they've come up with.

To say WB's plan is a shitshow, would mean it's gotten better.  Wonder Woman wasn't a sign, it was an anomaly for this DCEU.  Everything that's been released has had big drama, critics haven't exactly liked them, the films have underperformed at the box office, and has been disjointed, except for Wonder Woman.

[cambridgeguy]

There's a way to make Jordan Superman - just make sure he's not Kal-El.  It's the same for Miles Morales - he can be Spider-man, he just isn't Peter Parker.

Will WB go for it?  They don't have much to lose and keeping the DCEU going is going to require some out of the box thinking.

[Fukui San]

It just occurred to me that if they want to keep up with this theme of everyone hating Superman for no good reason even though he saves the world on a daily basis, then it does make sense for him to be black. 

[tennisgurl]

I think that Cavill was a good choice for Superman, especially when they let me actually, you know, be Superman every once in awhile. The problem is that grim and gritty DC didnt know what to do with the Man of Steel, and when they finally realized that they had made him, and everyone else, so dour and miserable, it was too late. They clearly had no idea what to do with the character, and there is only so much any actor can do with that. 

[Morrigan2575]

15 hours ago, Dee said:

Seeing as Michael B. Jordan is in the running to be cast as Superman, physical fitness won't be a problem.

To keep this smacks of BS by WB to get people talking and distract from how screwed up they are.

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

There's a way to make Jordan Superman - just make sure he's not Kal-El.  It's the same for Miles Morales - he can be Spider-man, he just isn't Peter Parker.

Just make him Steel

[GHScorpiosRule]

WB can just fuck itself.

[dusang]

46 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

WB can just fuck itself.

It would appear they already have.

[MarkHB]

On 9/12/2018 at 11:48 PM, stealinghome said:

It's amazing how inept and lacking a plan/vision the WB is. I swear, they could pay me millions of dollars to come up with the "plans" they've come up with.

There was never a plan, in fact AFAICT there was never supposed to be a plan.  The DCEU was/is a framework that WB and DCE could use to open up their full encyclopedia of characters for Hollywood types to use as they saw fit (within reason).  You can't do what Marvel has done - create this enormous narrative that gets to Infinity War - if the emphasis is truly on "filmmaker-driven" movies, and that's where WB is most comfortable and where they wanted to put their money.  (Harry Potter was a special case because JKR was around to act as creative consultant and keep an eye on her baby.)  At the same time, I think DC has had their greatest success in comics in recent years in letting creators do their thing with slight regard for a bigger picture, and that's what they were trying to do with the movies.

[starri]

2 hours ago, MarkHB said:

At the same time, I think DC has had their greatest success in comics in recent years in letting creators do their thing with slight regard for a bigger picture, and that's what they were trying to do with the movies.

Wonder Woman almost had a post-credit scene that would have set up Justice League.  They can say that they're trying to be "creator driven" until they're blue in the face, but if that were true, they wouldn't have had Zach Snyder in charge of basically everything until it became untenable for that to continue.

[Lugal]

I said before I always thought that Cavill made a better Clark Kent than Superman, which always seemed weird to me, but I think it's because they insisted Superman be dark and broody, while Clark Kent gets to be himself and that was where Cavill could actually shine in the role.

[tennisgurl]

Sometimes when I get bored or frustrated, I just think of Nightwing muttering "fuck Batman" in the most dramatic way possible in that Teen Titans trailer, and I giggle and giggle, and it makes me feel better. 

But seriously, that trailer is, to me, everything wrong with DC right now. Dark and gritty to the point of being unintentionally hilarious and more like what an angsty middle schooler would come up with than a professional writers, continuity that is super confusing and probably unrelated to the billion other DC universes being made in various forms right now, and a seeming lack of understanding of any of these characters. I try not to judge anything by just its trailer, but...

[Bruinsfan]

19 hours ago, Lugal said:

I said before I always thought that Cavill made a better Clark Kent than Superman, which always seemed weird to me, but I think it's because they insisted Superman be dark and broody, while Clark Kent gets to be himself and that was where Cavill could actually shine in the role.

My take is kind of... not the opposite really, because I do agree he shines as Clark Kent, but what most impressed me is that he manages to make Superman seem impressive and iconic while pulling off intense goodness without being corny. Christopher Reeve is the only actor who's done a better job of that for me.

I actually like Tyler Hoechlin's Clark Kent a bit better than Cavill's (seems to have more self-confidence and a sense of humor), but he's not at all convincing in costume.

[Morrigan2575]

20 hours ago, Lugal said:

I said before I always thought that Cavill made a better Clark Kent than Superman, which always seemed weird to me, but I think it's because they insisted Superman be dark and broody, while Clark Kent gets to be himself and that was where Cavill could actually shine in the role.

I got into a fan conversation years ago about Batman and, someone made a comment that the key to casting Batman is to cast someone that can play Bruce Wayne. The comment was Batman plays himself, you have the costume, gadgets, fight scenes but, you need someone that can bring Bruce Wayne to life.

I think the same applies to Superman. You need someone that can play an entertaining Clark Kent because everyone is going to see Superman anyway.

[BetterButter]

Brett Cullen to Replace Alec Baldwin as Thomas Wayne in ‘Joker’

[MarkHB]

Technically, this isn't DCEU as it's essentially a Black Label / Elseworlds movie (they're calling them DC Black Label in the comics now), but WB has let out the start-of-filming press release for Joker:

Quote

    BURBANK, Calif. — Principal photography has begun on Warner Bros. Pictures' "Joker," starring Oscar nominee Joaquin Phoenix in the title role, alongside Oscar winner Robert De Niro, and directed, produced and co-written by Oscar nominee Todd Phillips.

    "Joker" centers around the iconic arch nemesis and is an original, standalone story not seen before on the big screen. Phillips' exploration of Arthur Fleck (Phoenix), a man disregarded by society, is not only a gritty character study, but also a broader cautionary tale.

    The film also stars Zazie Beetz ("Deadpool 2"), Bill Camp ("Red Sparrow," "Molly's Game"), Frances Conroy (TV's "American Horror Story," Hulu's "Castle Rock"), Brett Cullen ("42," Netflix's "Narcos"), Glenn Fleshler (TV's "Billions," "Barry"), Douglas Hodge ("Red Sparrow," TV's "Penny Dreadful"), Marc Maron (TV's "Maron," "GLOW"), Josh Pais (upcoming "Motherless Brooklyn," "Going in Style"), and Shea Whigham (upcoming "First Man," "Kong: Skull Island").

    Phillips ("The Hangover" trilogy) directs from a screenplay he co-wrote with writer Scott Silver ("The Fighter"), based on characters from DC. The film is being produced by Phillips and Bradley Cooper under their Joint Effort banner, and Emma Tillinger Koskoff. It is executive produced by Richard Baratta, Joseph Garner and Bruce Berman.

    Behind the scenes, Phillips is joined by director of photography Lawrence Sher (upcoming "Godzilla: King of the Monsters," "The Hangover" trilogy), production designer Mark Friedberg ("Selma," "The Amazing Spider-Man 2"), editor Jeff Groth ("War Dogs," "The Hangover Part III"), and Oscar-winning costume designer Mark Bridges ("Phantom Thread," "The Artist").

    A Warner Bros. Pictures presentation, in Association with Village Roadshow Pictures, in Association with BRON Creative, a Joint Effort Production, "Joker" is set for release October 4, 2019, and will be distributed worldwide by Warner Bros. Pictures.

[GHScorpiosRule]

??????????

[ramble]

The more I read about DC and their dumb plans the more frustrated I become. And I try not to read too much so I don’t waste too much time on anger and disappointment. Batman was my guy growing up. Granted it was the 1960s cheese versio, but it made me fall in love with the character and the idea. I’ve gone to see every Batman movie, no matter how awful, because it’s Batman. Along the way I wandered into the DC universe and found Superman and Wonder Woman and grew to enjoy so many of the characters. I watched some of the animated series with unabashed love. Now? Currently? The DC movie world is a hot mess with no coherent direction. It makes me sad. These characters are iconic and have such amazing storytelling potential. They throw millions of dollars at poor stories and goofy CGI. While I don’t like all the DC tv shows they at least seem to have a theme and tell a story that isn’t just flash and bang. Okay I’ll stop now because I can feel that I’m on my way to a full blown rant. Sigh. The stupid idiots in charge are big dumb nincompoops. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I still maintain the perfect solution is to just dub in KEVIN!!!FUCKING!!!!CONROY!!!!’s Batman voice to whoever they hire as the next Batman. That would make up for a little bit of this dumpsterfire mess of a universe.

[Spartan Girl]

Jesus Christ, now they're dragging in the awesome actress that played Domino into this crap?!

[PepSinger]

I'm just going to ignore anything that isn't Wonder Woman related unless Patty Jenkins is behind it.

[tennisgurl]

I just have no idea what DC is doing at any point in time now. I can actually kind of get behind them just doing stand alone movies each with their own characters in their own worlds (thats what everyone did before Nick Fury showed up at Tony Starks place and changed the game forever) because they clearly suck at making a connected universe, but...a Joker stand alone movie? Of all their billions of characters, this is what they decided on? What is even the Hell?

[PepSinger]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

 What is even the Hell?

I see you've learned the DCEU tagline.

[HunterHunted]

The Joker is the least interesting villain to delve into. No one cares what his origins are, much like Batman's kind of boring origins too--his parents were murdered in front of him. Batman is how he both manifests and keeps a lid on his murderous rage. The Joker is basically Batman with no control or conscience. 

Catwoman is more interesting, Harley is more interesting, Two-Face is more interesting, Bane is more interesting, Jason Todd as the Red Hood is more interesting, and Amanda Waller sure as shit is more interesting than the freaking Joker.

Edited September 20, 2018 by HunterHunted

[SimoneS]

 Joaquin Phoenix is a talented actor as is Frances Conroy.  I also like Brett Cullen. So if nothing else, the cast of Joker is strong although not particularly ethnically diverse. After reviewing his credits on IMDb, I wouldn't have gone with Todd Phillips as the director. I wish DCEU would be more adventurous and daring with its directors. What about Denis Villeneuve? I really liked Sicario.

[HunterHunted]

If the DCEU is just going to be a bunch of stand alones and Elseworlds, they should just go ahead and give potential writers and directors the ok to adapt anything from the Timmverse. Yeah,  I know there are complications with Writers Guild story credits, but at this point the animation group has proven that they can put together beautiful, thoughtful, and compelling entertainment, while the film group has not. And the worst part of this is that on Justice League and JLU, they put together multi episode arcs that are essentially the run time of a feature length film.

Suicide Squad wishes it was half as good and coherent as Task Force X, which also highlights that Suicide Squad happened way too early in the DCEU. Task Force X only occurred after Superman was brainwashed by Darkseid to invade earth, after Waller got ahold of the Justice Lords video of Superman assassinating President Luthor, and after the world learns about the rail gun on the Watchtower. But basically there's a ton of evidence that Waller and the world should be paranoid about the Justice League. It was earned.

Nothing is earned in the DCEU. Batman is extremely paranoid and suspicious about Superman based on really nothing textual. Lex has all of this unfettered access to the Kryptonian ship based on nothing in the film. Lex has begun looking for more people with powers based on nothing in the films. And then everyone begins to lionize Superman based on nothing in the films. It's bizarre. It's all been planned out so poorly. And considering how much Lex's actions drive BvS and Justice League, he should have gotten the Thanos treatment. Lex should have been this omnipresent fixture in the background of every DCEU film. He is just as important as Clark, Batman, and Diana.

Edited September 20, 2018 by HunterHunted

[Dee]

‘Birds Of Prey’ Actresses In The Mix

Quote

We’re hearing about the list of actresses who are reading for Warner Bros./DC’s Birds of Prey movie. The characters of Huntress, Rene Montoya and Black Canary would be a part of Harley Quinn’s all-girl gang. They take on Batman villain Black Mask, with the help of Cassandra Cain. Margot Robbie reprises her Suicide Squad role as Harley Quinn.

Being considered for the role of Huntress is The Mummy actress Sofia Boutella, Fargo and Cloverfield Lane actress Mary Elizabeth Winstead, Wolf of Wall Street and How I Met Your Mother‘s Cristin Milioti, and Margaret Qualley, the latter starring in Quentin Tarantino’s Once Upon a Time in Hollywood and starred in HBO’s The Leftovers.

For Rene Montoya, One Day at a Time‘s Justina Machado is in the mix, along with Vida‘s Roberta Colindrez. Montoya is a lesbian detective on the Gotham City police force.

In consideration for Black Canary, known for her shrieking cry, are Belle‘s Gugu Mbatha-Raw and Underground actress Jurnee Smollett-Bell.

Edited September 21, 2018 by Dee

[scarynikki12]

Oh man I can’t imagine a harder decision than picking between Gugu and Jurnee, assuming the article is correct. Each would be an amazing Black Canary. Maybe they can hire one to play Dinah Drake and the other to play Dinah Lance? 

[stealinghome]

I haven't heard of most of these people, but of the actors I'm familiar with, the only one who I can imagine in the role is Gugu Mbatha-Raw.

[starri]

7 hours ago, Dee said:

For Rene Montoya, One Day at a Time‘s Justina Machado is in the mix

Yes, please.

[BetterButter]

[Spartan Girl]

Sucko.

[HunterHunted]

On 9/14/2018 at 9:50 AM, MarkHB said:

There was never a plan, in fact AFAICT there was never supposed to be a plan.  The DCEU was/is a framework that WB and DCE could use to open up their full encyclopedia of characters for Hollywood types to use as they saw fit (within reason).  You can't do what Marvel has done - create this enormous narrative that gets to Infinity War - if the emphasis is truly on "filmmaker-driven" movies, and that's where WB is most comfortable and where they wanted to put their money.  (Harry Potter was a special case because JKR was around to act as creative consultant and keep an eye on her baby.)  At the same time, I think DC has had their greatest success in comics in recent years in letting creators do their thing with slight regard for a bigger picture, and that's what they were trying to do with the movies.

I just read a piece on Screen Rant that agrees with you. Basically it argues that WB/DC got greedy once they saw the money Disney/Marvel was making and tried to retcon the Nolan's Batman films, Snyder's take on DC characters, and all of their upcoming DC character films into a cohesive idea of the DCEU as an equivalent DC attempt of what Marvel just did.

https://screenrant.com/batman-superman-dceu-ruined-zack-snyder-fault/3/

[MarkHB]

The so-called Birds of Prey movie has a release date, albeit not a cast or an official title: Feb. 7, 2020.  The only confirmed cast member so far is Margot Robbie.

[MarkHB]

Speaking of Birds of Prey, Variety is reporting that they've cast Mary Elizabeth Winstead as Huntress, and Jurnee Smollett-Bell as Black Canary.  From the linked article:

Quote

Robbie is reprising her role as Quinn, which she first unveiled in “Suicide Squad,” and is also on board to produce with Sue Kroll and Bryan Unkeless.

There are several versions of Huntress, aka Helena Bertinelli, throughout DC Comics, but the “Birds of Prey” version is a former mafia princess who was devastated at a young age when her family was killed in a mob hit, turning her into a vigilante and eventually leading her to join the Birds of Prey team. Black Canary, aka Dinah Lance, is a good-natured and idealistic streetfighter in the comics.

In the film, the team will be fighting a Gotham crime lord who has yet to be unveiled.

Cathy Yan is directing the pic, which is set to be released on Feb. 7, 2020.

[Trini]

17 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

Speaking of Birds of Prey, Variety is reporting that they've cast Mary Elizabeth Winstead as Huntress, and Jurnee Smollett-Bell as Black Canary.  From the linked article:

Is Batgirl not going to be part of this?

[scarynikki12]

Not that they’re letting on. The spec has been that we may see Oracle but I think she’ll be off doing another mission and her movie may turn out to be concurrent. 

Winstead and Jurnee are going to be awesome. 

[darkestboy]

Yeah, Birds Of Prey looks like it could be a good one. Now we just have to see who gets cast as Black Mask, Cassandra Cain and Renee Montoya.

[MarkHB]

49 minutes ago, darkestboy said:

Yeah, Birds Of Prey looks like it could be a good one. Now we just have to see who gets cast as Black Mask, Cassandra Cain and Renee Montoya.

More news from yesterday (taken from Batman-News):

Quote

There are still a few main roles that need to be filled. Justina Machado and Roberta Colindrez have auditioned to play Renee Montoya, a lesbian Gotham police detective. Cassandra Cain will also appear in the movie as a 12 year old girl, and Warner Bros. is looking to cast an Asian actress. The villain will reportedly be Black Mask, and we haven’t heard any casting news about him yet.

Followed by:

Quote

According to Variety reporter Justin Kroll, Iron Man 2 star Sam Rockwell passed on playing the villain Black Mask in Birds of Prey. Kroll adds that Warner Bros. has just started meeting with actors for that role, but Ewan McGregor and Sharlto Copley are at the top of their wishlist.

[dusang]

For me, it's not really about the cast -- the DCEU has had some rather impressive casting already and managed to squander the potential.  Good luck to (director) Cathy Yan and (writer) Christina Hodson.  Neither has much in their credits to secure my hope but ... at least they aren't Zac Snyder.

[methodwriter85]

Oh my god, I LOVE Mary Elizabeth Winstead. I've never seen her put in a bad performance in anything.

[KatWay]

2 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Oh my god, I LOVE Mary Elizabeth Winstead. I've never seen her put in a bad performance in anything.

she's one actress where private business has really affected my previously positive opinion of her. Pity cause I used to like her a lot.

[cambridgeguy]

Looks like Batman was supposed to die

I think there are some jokes about how poor box office performance has done a better job than Darkseid could have done with killing Batfleck, how fans might have reacted poorly even though Marvel has done something similar, etc.

On the one hand, yeah, Batman (and heroes like Captain America, Black Widow, etc.) should be vaporized the moment they go up against cosmic level threats.  On the other hand, he just killed Superman so maybe going back to the heroic death well so quickly might not have been the best idea. 

[HunterHunted]

On 9/27/2018 at 2:31 PM, KatWay said:

she's one actress where private business has really affected my previously positive opinion of her. Pity cause I used to like her a lot.

Because of her affair with Ewan McGregor? Or was there something else?

22 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Looks like Batman was supposed to die

On the one hand, yeah, Batman (and heroes like Captain America, Black Widow, etc.) should be vaporized the moment they go up against cosmic level threats.  On the other hand, he just killed Superman so maybe going back to the heroic death well so quickly might not have been the best idea. 

None of Snyder's plotting makes a damn bit of sense even if he'd gotten his way. I've posted before just weird and impotent these films have made the big 3:

• Man of Steel begins with Clark using his powers to save the workers on the oil platform. It then keeps cutting back and forth between the past where his father keeps telling Clark to not use his powers and let people die and the present where Clark is mostly not using his powers and when he does, it is mostly for super dickery. It undermines his initial heroic act. When he finally decides to do something truly heroic, it's because Zod calls him out. As the original Donner film, Smallville, and Superman the Animated Series understood, Clark can use his powers in smaller less grand ways to help people. And showing those smaller acts reaffirms Clark's fundamental  decency. We really only see Clark perform 2 acts of heroism unprompted: the oil platform and saving his classmates. We needed to see Clark make the decision to become Superman because he wanted to, not because he was forced to do it. He needed his own version of crossing No Man's Land.
• BvS shows a violent unreasonable Batman. He isn't using any of his wealth, connections, and vaunted intellect to try to investigate Superman, the dead Kryptonians, or any of the wreckage from the Kryptonian ships. Even if Batman's paranoia and suspicion about Superman is warranted  you'd think he'd want to investigate the Kryptonian ship to see if there is ANYTHING on that ship that could potentially stop or kill Superman. Instead he "breaks into" Lex Luthor's server to steal info that Lex had, which also included info on a bunch of other super people. WTF was Batman doing in all of the time between Man of Steel and BvS? Clearly sitting on his ass trying to come up with new violent ways to torture criminals instead going "Holy shit! Aliens are real. I need to figure out how to scavenge their technology and protect the earth from future attacks. This Batman is violent and dumb. He doesn't investigate or do detective work, but he does have prophetic dreams of the future. And if the film simply had been smart enough to have Batman do his own detective work on the Kryptonian ship, that dumb future dream wouldn't have been necessary and it would have actually justified his suspicion and fear. Because this Batman is so dumb and not the least bit inquisitive, he's not smart enough to tell Diana to use the lance on Doomsday.
• And while I liked Wonder Woman, it makes you retroactively question why her ass was silent and on the sidelines for 80 years. The Holocaust, the Spanish Civil War, the atom bomb, the My Lai Massacre, the Mau Mau Uprising,  the Yugoslavian Wars, and 9/11. What was she freaking doing? This why I was really hoping that her sequel was an adaptation of Odyssey of the Amazons.

And the reason Superman's death isn't earned, is because we needed to really see him as a hero so that the audience and the surviving characters truly miss him. Compare his death with the train scene from Sam Raimi's Spider Man 2. Both Superman and Spider Man were 2 movies deep. Both had a public that had mixed impressions about the heroes. However, in Spider-Man 2 we see Ock attacking the passengers and throwing out the window as a diversion and the passengers on the train see Spider-Man repeatedly attempt to save them. And so when the passengers pass Spidey overhead in the obvious crucifixion pose, it's earned. Superman just died on an abandoned dock fighting a big dumb monster that WW could have killed.

It also ignored two things that have always happened in the original comic and in the animated films: Superman's death is very public so the world can see his sacrifice and that other heroes step up.

This episode also had a great moment where Batman refuses to attend the memorial for Superman, but we can see his shadow lurking on rooftops of the procession.

In Justice League, we see Batman who is still kind of a cynical asshole and still using Lex's research. So there was no need to front load the existence of these other heroes to BvS when their story really wouldn't carry much weight until Justice League.

And because Batman has been reduced to a rich guy who punches shit, it doesn't actually frame a decent narrative arc for the character and make his potential death meaningful. If he started as jaded and cynical in BvS, became slightly more open and pragmatic in JL 1, and ended up hopeful and reinvigorated in Justice League 2, then his loss would actually be meaningful. But the key to that is actually giving Batman agency and purpose in JL 1. It needed to be his investigation and efforts that brought the team together both to fend off Steppenwolf and because he realizes that the bulk of the time he and Superman spent fighting each other left them both vulnerable to Luthor's schemes and that can't happen again. 

I found this great video Snyder's directing style, how he favors moments over scenes. And that's really the problem with his plan for his 5 films to conclude with Batman's death. He doesn't know, really care, or understand how Batman was going to get to a place where he would sacrifice himself to save the team. And based on the dialogue in JL 1, it never even occurred to him that we needed to see some changes in him. The problem is that Snyder fell in love with a comic panel showing Superman holding a broken Batman in that pieta pose and decided arbitrarily that was how Batman's time in this franchise was going to end regardless of whether it made sense. 

Edited October 1, 2018 by HunterHunted

[KatWay]

10 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Because of her affair with Ewan McGregor? Or was there something else?

yeah that.