S06.E13: S06.E12: 2009 / S06.E13: Dreams Come True

[caracas1914]

Yes, people talk about Kurt looking so different  but there was some strange disconnect with how they tried to revisit Rachel with Lea.

 

For lack of a better word, either facial structure, makeup, maturity, but there was something bizarre (I'm thinking Joan Crawfordish) with how Lea/Rachel looked.

[truthaboutluv]

Well in the actual pilot Rachel does actually talk about her myspace page and that's where she was posting videos of herself singing and Quinn and others were posting their mean comments. Also, originally Facebook was only for college students and you could only get an account if you had a college email address. I can't remember exactly when Facebook started letting anyone get an account though. Plus, Lima is supposed to be a small town, so maybe they weren't as up to date on the latest internet trends.

 

 

I know about Myspace, that's why I said it was still around then. However it was getting significantly left behind by Facebook and other social media. Yes Facebook originally started for college students, in 2004. By 2006, when Twitter had already started coming onto the scene, Facebook was already open to anyone 13 and older. And again this episode was supposed to be set in 2009.

 

The reason I know all this is because I was a college student in 2009 - I discovered and fell in love with Glee while in college along with my college friends. And I know very well that I had a Facebook account and had started using Twitter that year. The joke was just stupid, period. It might have worked if the series premiere was set in 2003 or even 2004, but 2009 - talking about Friendster and Blockbuster, really?

Edited March 21, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[TV Anonymous]

So you think Jenna took this character and the words written for her to say in the hopes that the interpretation viewers took away was how much Tina changed for the worse due to Glee Club? Why would she ever be hired to interpret another character ever again if she does that to material that it clearly wasn't the intent to convey?

 

What does Jenna Ushkowitz have anything to do with the discussion? jaytee1812 made a comment about the depiction of Tina before and after the Glee Club. Jenna just acting the character out. She has nothing to do with character development.

[jaytee1812]

I wasn't particularly at the forefront of getting Facebook or Twitter and I remember tweeting the first time I heard DSB on TV. Though unlike most people on here I wasn't watching Glee!

[Beach Party]

“Being part of something special doesn’t make you special. Something is special because you are part of it.”

[Helena Dax]

So, here's the thing, I cried, but I cried for Cory and it had nothing to do with the episode. I mean,  it isn't something that the episode did right; I just watched DSB a couple of days ago on YouTube and I cried too. My point? The finale wasn't as emotional as it should have  been. On the other hand, at least none of them became a lumberjack.

 

Loved the last song,  it was nice to see all of them singing  together and having fun. I liked Daydream Believer too. And The Winner takes it all. Sue and Will always make hilarious duets.  

 

RM might be  someone who is very pleased with himself, but I do  think that Glee has helped a lot of LGTB kids through the years. Kurt, Blaine, Santana, Brittany... had to face the kind of problems that LGTB kids have  to face in RL. And that message  of "you aren't the  only one" is important and needed. Even if Dawson Creek did it first -and maybe better, I didn't  watch that show-, it needs to be said over and over. 

 

Anyway, I'm gonna miss this crazy, messy show.

 

ETA I want Burt Hummel to be my dad.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Helena Dax

[theschnauzers]

Just a reminder that it was Figgins who made the Myspace, Facebook, Blockbuster Video comments talking to Sue, and Figgins was always a decade behind about everything.

[AndySmith]

How full of himself is Ryan Murphy? Yikes. Let's all send him a bunch of ladders so he can get over himself.

The first part was just sliding by on nostalgia and barely worked thanks to DSB at the end. The second part...oy, such a hot mess of fan service. I haven't this much unbelievable careerism since OTH after the skipping-college flash-forward. And kind of lame that many original and long-term character were more or less ignored.

But...as much as I agree with most people who said DSB should have been the final song...there was something I enjoyed about I Live. It was almost infectious. Yes, I know it wasn't done in one take, and they were acting...but there was something about it that actually made my head start bobbing and almost singing along. Maybe it was the fact that they got almost everybody back for that performance, and the fact that there was such a sense of...joy? when they were performing it. It really came through, that the actors were making us believe that they were just having fun and letting go for that performance. It worked for me.

[fakeempress]

I have to say 2009 was the best Jenna acting episode for me in a long while. 

[caracas1914]

I thought Amber really showed how much she's improved as an actress in "2009", she couldn't have pulled this off before.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When Sue went to the auditorium to meet Will and we saw her leaning on the piano towards Brad, I had this wild hope that Brad would burst into song.

[fakeempress]

I was also glad to have a bit more of Iqbal and Principal Figgins in the finale. Iqbal is great in the role and made me enjoy Figgins (and his sister lol) every time he was on screen. His scenes with Jane are also favourites of mine. 

Edited March 21, 2015 by fakeempress

[Bruinsfan]

Am I wrong, or was there a goof when Emma showed Will the video of his Nationals-winning performance?  We saw his glee club performing "Disco Inferno," but I swear I remember it being "That's the Way I Like It" in the pilot.  Was it a rights thing?

It always irked me that they removed the "That's the Way I Like It" number in all its Brady Bunch Variety Hour glory from subsequent broadcasts of the pilot after the original sneak preview. Seeing Will and his classmates hilariously two decades behind the times in their moment of triumph was one of the things that sold me on the series right from the start.

[Starchild]

On the other hand, at least none of them became a lumberjack.

Hey. I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK.

[Bubbles]

Was Myron in the final number? I didn't see him and figured maybe they left him out because there was no way to explain him still being a child in 2020.

[Bill1978]

He wasn't although he was at the filming. And is present in the non-selfie cast shot. Maybe someone actually realised it would make no sense even in the Gleeverse for the actor to be present during the song. Unless he grew up to be the doppelganger of Karofsky...

[txhorns79]

I know about Myspace, that's why I said it was still around then.

 

I think during the time when the pilot was filmed, News Corp had a financial interest (or perhaps ownership) of MySpace, so that was probably why it was specifically mentioned during the early episodes. 

[cali1981]

I was pleasantly surprised that they pulled it off last night. 2009 was nicely done although it did have a reminder of how little Jenna Ushkowitz was actually featured throughout the six seasons. Here's a flash Ryan.  Jenna has a great freaking voice and should have had far more prominent solos than she did.  Whenever she actually got to sing out front she nailed it.   I laughed out loud at the Tony nominees:  Maggie Smith in Miss Jean Brodie's Second Prime.  From the show's Playbill: "Always known for her great singing voice, Miss Smith, despite being 105 years old hauls her crinkly old ass out on stage for eight shows a week!  When asked how she does it, Dame Maggie replied :"if that old bag Lansbury can do it, by God, so can I".  Willow Smith in Cabaret (could happen in some demented world I guess).  Anne Hathaway in her one woman show Anne!  Pretty funny dig at Hathaway's reputation.  And finally Rachel Berry in Jane Austin SIngs.  I'd pay at least $5.00 to see that one with such an exciting story line.

Edited March 22, 2015 by cali1981

[missalanny]

All of the debate here about the relevancy of the respective social networking sites in 2009 has reminded me of a very embarrassing bit of personal history...

I joined Twitter during the first season of Glee pretty much with the exclusive intention of following the cast and also the in-character accounts.  I was like... way too old for this to be remotely defendable, but honestly: what else was Twitter even for back then?  

 

I thought the finale was satisfying. I've not always watched as it airs, but I've never missed an episode, and the show has flown off the rails so far and so often over the 6 seasons that it just really didn't have to acheive much in the final episode to impress me. However, I was fairly impressed at how it was planned-out, paced, effective without being overly sentimental (I honestly thought it would be more difficult for me to watch, particularly for Finn-based reasons), and for my taste, the right characters were the focus.  My only real gripe is St. Berry... I'm just not sure why the audience is supposed to be on board with Rachel ending up with Jesse considering how much of a villain he was in the actual show... I mean, I think everyone is happy because it's Jonathan Groff and Lea Michele, but unless I get some evidence of Jesse St. James redeeming himself for what he did to Rachel Berry in Season 2, I'm just not sure about that OTP.  And no, putting in a good word with Carmen Tribideux that one time and Russell Simmons that other time just doesn't cut it for me.  I feel the same about this as I did about Blaine and Karofsky... forgiveness is one thing, but damn. 

Edited March 22, 2015 by missalanny

[SNeaker]

Santana, Brittany, Puck, Quinn, and Finn definitely all changed by being in Glee.

All the same people who were not in the finale, though at least Finn's memory was.

Edited March 22, 2015 by SNeaker

[seacliffsal]

I admit that a few tears left my eyes during DSB at the end of the first episode.  I didn't think seeing Cory again would affect so much, but the joy he expressed really touched my heart.

As for the second episode-no way would a mid 20s Rachel put her life on hold for almost a year for anyone let alone to be a surrogate mother!

I missed Rory-I really liked him when he was on, but the producers just didn't know what to do with him.

[Florinaldo]

Reusing an old Blackadder gag, the first hour felt just like a broken pencil: pointless.
 
That episode was as recycled as the joke I just made; the new sideviews added just about nothing to what happened in previous seasons, except by retrospectively injecting elements that occurred later and without really fleshing them out to enrich our perspective.
 
I had a rewatch just in case I was not in the right mood last night and I still think that despite some welcome short reappearances, for example by Terri and Howard, this was mostly an exercise in empty nostalgia. Including a lazy reuse of their first performance of DSB.
 
There were a few interesting aspects, like how much AR's acting has progressed, LM doing a credible job of recreating Rachel's persona from years back, and "Pony" the only number I enjoyed from that episode (and I usually don't like Artie's nasal singing). This was such a weak effort that it's a very good thing they did not use it as the very last episode of the series.
 
The second hour marked a definite improvement. The stories got wrapped up for the most part satisfactorily or at least credibly, even if there will always be some loose ends.
 
Sue as VP is probably fitting considering the present political climate in the U.S., although having Jeb Bush choose her as running mate seemed improbable; he is the most reasonable of the present Republican field and it would have been more imaginative to have an extreme right-winger as the main item on the ticket. Perhaps not quite Rush Limbaugh or Pat Buchanan crazy, but Bill O'Reilly would have been an amusing choice, although as a Fox News star he would probably be deemed untouchable. Someone like Ted Cruz or Rand Paul would have been such a better match for Sue. I wonder if RM was perhaps thumbing his nose a bit at Clinton, telling her in effect that she has no chance, since in the Glee-verse she is defeated and the Democrats lose again four years later.
 
I could not understand how Blaine and Kurt could be written as kowtowing so easily to Sue and crediting her with their coming back together. They were depicted from the start of the season as still hung up on each other and she only speeded things up. Her various barbs left openings for easy retorts, which they ignored. Except for Blaine's closing response that he does not get Sue either. Who does, really?
 
Despite my reluctance towards Rachel carrying the Klaine baby, the dialogue and acting made the reveal go by so smoothly that I had to catch myself and smile at how slyly they slipped it past my cockled heart.
 
The Blaine-Kurt duet was one of their best; I guess the actors decided that the best way to defeat WC Fields' warning never to work with children was to play up the adorableness to match that of the kids.
 
I liked the other musical numbers, including the closing one where the cast's sense of fun and enjoyment while performing came through fully. It's strange that no Warblers were included, the ones who had lines at least, because they were an integral part of ND in the last few episodes.

 

Did director Buecker recently discover how to shoot trick mirror scenes? We had two of them, the photo doubles seen from the back not entirely matching the movements of the actors on the reflection side. Was it supposed to convey that the episode was a game of reflections between present and future, or just him showing off? The wipe over the escalator to signal the five-year jump for Blaine and Kurt was a much better choice I thought.
 
All in all, "Dreams Come True" was a respectable send-off to the series.
 

Still perplexed at at why Rachel felt a need to sing "This Time" as a goodbye to her time at McKinley 9-10 months after she left McKinley to go back to NYADA. So very random.

Some people have a hard time letting go. I suppose this can also be said of certain fictional characters, and it might also apply to some of the show's fans in coming months.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Florinaldo

[KaveDweller]

As for the second episode-no way would a mid 20s Rachel put her life on hold for almost a year for anyone let alone to be a surrogate mother

 

I was thinking that the surrogacy was supposed to show that 2020 Rachel had matured and was less selfish than 2015 Rachel.

 

I think they should have jumped more than 5 years though.  5 years only puts them all a couple years out of college, which is pretty early for some of the success we saw, and early for marriage/kids. I know Kurt/Blaine were already married, but it's still early for a baby.

[Snow Apple]

Yeah. The screen says "5 years later" but my head keep thinking it's 10 years.

[fakeempress]

They should also have separated the pregnancy from the Tony award. The whole combo of only 5 years later, the advanced pregnancy and the Tony ceremony was not only overboard, it was stretching it into the stratosphere. Why not put the Klaine school scene in a later time frame combined with the surrogacy, that would've made more sense and used the same emotional tone -- and keep the Tony award separate. At least that. 

Edited March 22, 2015 by fakeempress

[shoregirl]

My only real gripe is St. Berry... I'm just not sure why the audience is supposed to be on board with Rachel ending up with Jesse considering how much of a villain he was in the actual show... I mean, I think everyone is happy because it's Jonathan Groff and Lea Michele, but unless I get some evidence of Jesse St. James redeeming himself for what he did to Rachel Berry in Season 2, I'm just not sure about that OTP. And no, putting in a good word with Carmen Tribideux that one time and Russell Simmons that other time just doesn't cut it for me. I feel the same about this as I did about Blaine and Karofsky... forgiveness is one thing, but damn.

What did Jesse do to Rachel in season 2? He apologized for the egg, took her to prom and try to get her a solo at nationals.I honestly don't remember anything villainous in season 2. I mean even season 1 beside the egg it was mainly manipulation and that was mainly Shelby I never thought he was mainly a villian hroughout. He spoke to Carmen on her behalf which Rachel didn't know about so he had nothing to gain from it.

[tom87]

What did Jesse do to Rachel in season 2? He apologized for the egg, took her to prom and try to get her a solo at nationals.I honestly don't remember anything villainous in season 2. I mean even season 1 beside the egg it was mainly manipulation and that was mainly Shelby I never thought he was mainly a villian hroughout. He spoke to Carmen on her behalf which Rachel didn't know about so he had nothing to gain from it.

Besides the egg incident Jesse has only shown to care about Rachel. Was he a douche  to others sure, but not to Rachel.  Not sure why his attempts to put in a good word for Rachel should not count.

 

Plus like every other character he has had some humbling experiences and a few years to mature.  I do not see Jessie as any better or worse them most of the characters.   He has alwasy shown he cares for Rachel maybe even loved her.  Remember he flew to NY to see her Mr Shue even called him on that and he walked away after his semi truce with Finn.

 

 

As for the second episode-no way would a mid 20s Rachel put her life on hold for almost a year for anyone let alone to be a surrogate mother

 

She was doing that for Finn by saying she would stay in Lima for him, which lead to Finn putting her on the train.  The episode before she said she was going to NY come hell or high water. Finn doesn't get into school and she was going to defer for a year.

[missalanny]

 

What did Jesse do to Rachel in season 2?

Typo, I meant season 1. A major season arc that ended in a reveal that Jesse was manipulating Rachel throughout the course of their entire relationship, culminating in the brutal, humiliating egg attack just wasn't all made better for me with a "sorry about the eggs!" later on. That shit would have scarred a 16-year-old girl forever, and whenever Jesse popped back up, he remained a villain in my eyes.  I get that there were a few redeeming moments throughout (i.e. the Carmen Tribideux thing), but they weren't enough - FOR ME (this is just MY opinion) - to carry those characters from where they were to marriage.  I personally think it's asking the audience to fill in a bit too much and relying on the general reverence fans have for Lea and Jonathan's real-life friendship. 

[mercfan3]

Typo, I meant season 1. A major season arc that ended in a reveal that Jesse was manipulating Rachel throughout the course of their entire relationship, culminating in the brutal, humiliating egg attack just wasn't all made better for me with a "sorry about the eggs!" later on. That shit would have scarred a 16-year-old girl forever, and whenever Jesse popped back up, he remained a villain in my eyes.  I get that there were a few redeeming moments throughout (i.e. the Carmen Tribideux thing), but they weren't enough - FOR ME (this is just MY opinion) - to carry those characters from where they were to marriage.  I personally think it's asking the audience to fill in a bit too much and relying on the general reverence fans have for Lea and Jonathan's real-life friendship. 

 

I agree. Honestly, if they weren't going to have her end up with Sam (Which was blah, but what were the alternatives?) They should have just had Rachel's OTP be Broadway. You know, what it was in the pilot. 

 

I don't mind Rachel being KurtcoBlaine's surrogate, but as others have said..it would have been better had it been more than five years from then. I will say, her speech..and everyone watching at Will's house, was made me tear up. (Especially Sam running around like an idiot) I know Will wasn't the perfect teacher, but they always showed him as someone who strongly cared for his kids..so despite his mistakes, I thought he was a great teacher. (And I get that practice beats heart in the real world, but that makes for terrible tv. )

[CleoCaesar]

I was thinking that the surrogacy was supposed to show that 2020 Rachel had matured and was less selfish than 2015 Rachel.

 

There's "mature and become less selfish" and there's "put your life on hold at the age of 25, put your body through the irreversible changes of pregnancy, go through the agony of childbirth, and then give away your first child to someone else". The whole thing was absurd and left a really bad taste in my mouth.

[tom87]

Rachel seems to have forgiven  him and Shelby.  Love her or hate her she is mostly very forgiving.

 

Knowing Rachel who famously said to Quinn,  "Most girls would be upset about getting slapped in the face, but…I happen to appreciate the drama of it."  Maybe she appreciated it  for  the acting exercise it was for Jesse.  :)

Edited March 22, 2015 by tom87

[Ceeg]

There's "mature and become less selfish" and there's "put your life on hold at the age of 25, put your body through the irreversible changes of pregnancy, go through the agony of childbirth, and then give away your first child to someone else". The whole thing was absurd and left a really bad taste in my mouth.

 

Well, men write this show, so they probably never gave a single thought about how this would affect Rachel and her body and emotions.

[caracas1914]

Personally I thought the living hell that Finn put Rachel through in Season 2, dumping her for " cheating" as he went back to his first love who had cuckholded him ( Quinn); even telling Rachel they had no fireworks , would have traumatized her a heck of a lot more.

But that's just me.

Edited March 22, 2015 by caracas1914

[shoregirl]

How about manipulating her to go out with him when in reality he only wanted her back in glee club so he had a better opportunity at a scholarship or putting her on a train on what was supposed to be her wedding day and then not contacting her for months only to get upset with her for starting to move on.

[mercfan3]

How about manipulating her to go out with him when in reality he only wanted her back in glee club so he had a better opportunity at a scholarship or putting her on a train on what was supposed to be her wedding day and then not contacting her for months only to get upset with her for starting to move on.

 

Well, I didn't like her with Finn either. To be honest, of all the guys, I thought Puck was mostly the best to her. 

[natyxg]

There's "mature and become less selfish" and there's "put your life on hold at the age of 25, put your body through the irreversible changes of pregnancy, go through the agony of childbirth, and then give away your first child to someone else". The whole thing was absurd and left a really bad taste in my mouth.

 

THANK YOU, FUCK YES X1000000000000

 

Well, men write this show, so they probably never gave a single thought about how this would affect Rachel and her body and emotions.

 

I had that exact same thought when Rachel was so casual about popping out a kid for klaine and then going to work to pop one out for Jessie.

 

Blech.

[AndySmith]

I really liked him when he was on, but the producers just didn't know what to do with him.

 

Sounds par for the course for this show...that could be said for so many people.

 

if they weren't going to have her end up with Sam

 

Why does she have to end up with anybody? Why can't be she her own strong independant woman in her mid-20s who doesn't necessarily need to be with someone to be fullfilled and happy? I mean, I can understand people wanting everything tied up for the characters, but (and this applies to all of them, not just Rachel) they're all way too young for that now. If it were 20 years later, I'd agree, but 5 years later? Let these early to mid-20s people live it up and have fun.

[natyxg]

They should also have separated the pregnancy from the Tony award. The whole combo of only 5 years later, the advanced pregnancy and the Tony ceremony was not only overboard, it was stretching it into the stratosphere. Why not put the Klaine school scene in a later time frame combined with the surrogacy, that would've made more sense and used the same emotional tone -- and keep the Tony award separate. At least that. 

 

I agree with this, yes. Besides what Cleo said, the pregnancy bothered me because it stole Rachel's moment. That was the height of the series, or was supposed to be: Rachel achieving success and having her dreams come true. So it should've been about HER award and her marriage and if she was pregnant it had to be her and Jessie's. I felt like the show showing its true colors again and reminding us all how much they kiss the men's asses. Sort of like how they spent like 3 years dealing with Emma's issues and her virginity, then it was thrown away as a random gift to Will for winning Nationals, and not only that it was shown in like a throw away part of a montage, if I remember correctly. Augh.

 

They should've just shown Klaine with an adopted cute little baby and let that be that, imo.

Why does she have to end up with anybody? Why can't be she her own strong independant woman in her mid-20s who doesn't necessarily need to be with someone to be fullfilled and happy? I mean, I can understand people wanting everything tied up for the characters, but (and this applies to all of them, not just Rachel) they're all way too young for that now. If it were 20 years later, I'd agree, but 5 years later? Let these early to mid-20s people live it up and have fun.

 

Because this what happens in pretty much every show and movie ever.

[AndySmith]

Which doesn't make it any less artificial or silly.

[Beach Party]

Seemed controlling of Jesse when he was telling Rachel her thank you list if she won the Tony.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Beach Party

[caracas1914]

Well I wouldn't doubt it that Jesse is now a red carpet award whisperer.

[Casual Viewing]

Seemed controlling of Jesse when he was telling Rachel her thank you list if she won the Tony.

Jesse was a born director. I enjoyed seeing a bit of that Jesse emerge again. It reminded me of the Hello 12, Hello 13 out-take where after kissing Rachel (and enjoying it) he regroups and says "I have some notes".

He is still Rachel's biggest fan. Still reassuring her that she would win. I would say Jesse manages Rachel's moments of crazy better than most men would, and Rachel has him wrapped around her finger since she somehow got him to agree to let her be a surrogate.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Casual Viewing

[Miles]

I have to say they got me with the first hour. A whole lot of nostalgia and feels.

I loved the old footage of the first time they sang "don't stop believing". Would have been a little bit more special if they hadn't done it again before, but what are you going to do? What I didn't like is how they crammed all the other people, who originally weren't there, in. Will being there and being swayed to stay a teacher, by that song, was nice, even Sue with Santana and Quinn looking manacingly on that scene, I could buy, but Puck walking in, then running back out?! Come on. Now you've really overplayed it and you diminished other characters who weren't there, who were arguably more important, like Brittany.

The second hour left me rather cold. It felt like the Glee I've grown to mildly hate (but mostly grown to be bored off).

Rachels song was nice. Everything else was really meh. I guess we had to have it, but I didn't care very much.

The choices they made for "the winner takes it all" were bizar. It was too high, for Will, but especially for Sue and it was actually a lot higher than the original from ABBA. What were they smoking when they were recording that?

Aaaand then Sue made another weird turn at the end of the episode without any provocation. I'm really over this inconsistent writing. Glad I won't have to suffer through it anymore.

Don't get me started on how fanficy that whole art school thing is and that it's now nation wide. The reasoning for it didn't even make sense in the universe of the show. We were told that without art Sue got her students to perform amazingly. This episode they say that without art grades went down.

Also they got completely rid of sports? What about the kids who don't love to sing but love sports? Well congratulations, you swung from one bad extreme to the other.

I'm going to pretend like the second hour (and the last few seasons) never happened and that the first hour was the real finale.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Miles

[Kromm]

I agree with this, yes. Besides what Cleo said, the pregnancy bothered me because it stole Rachel's moment. That was the height of the series, or was supposed to be: Rachel achieving success and having her dreams come true. So it should've been about HER award and her marriage and if she was pregnant it had to be her and Jessie's. I felt like the show showing its true colors again and reminding us all how much they kiss the men's asses. Sort of like how they spent like 3 years dealing with Emma's issues and her virginity, then it was thrown away as a random gift to Will for winning Nationals, and not only that it was shown in like a throw away part of a montage, if I remember correctly. Augh.

 

They should've just shown Klaine with an adopted cute little baby and let that be that, imo.

It was the repeated sin of this show: no restraint.

 

They got these various ideas of what they wanted and felt they had to toss them ALL in.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

What I didn't like is how they crammed all the other people, who originally weren't there, in. Will being there and being swayed to stay a teacher, by that song, was nice, even Sue with Santana and Quinn looking manacingly on that scene, I could buy, but Puck walking in, then running back out?! Come on. Now you've really overplayed it and you diminished other characters who weren't there, who were arguably more important, like Brittany.

I didn't see it as cramming in more people. That footage was all from the pilot, including Puck walking in and then leaving and Sue, Quinn, and Santana (whose name we didn't even know at that point). It illustrated the entire point of the 2009 flashback, which was showing where they started (which in turn emphasized how much they had changed by Dreams Come True). I don't think reminding us of the original members coming together as a group for the first time with DSB in any way diminshed characters who were introduced later. If anything, it's a way of telling us that if not for those original members deciding to work on DSB on their own despite Will quitting, there wouldn't have been other members like Brittany (who I never personally saw as more important than the original members, no matter how good her dancing was).

[adam807]

Enjoyed the final recap, thanks :)

 

 

If the show had been half as good as the recaps on this site it might not be ending! But then the writers for this site are professionals who take pride in their work.

 

Thanks, guys! This means a lot. I mostly only lurked here in the forums but it was nice to know I wasn't the only one still watching and caring about this sinking ship. And boy do you guys have better memories for past seasons than I do!

 

Speaking of, I rewatched the pilot yesterday, and I have to say, as inessential as "2009" was, the retconning totally holds up. Every scene fits into the existing scenes perfectly, and I don't think there's anything contradictory there. A couple of continuity errors with where people are standing or specific props if you want to get REALLY nitpicky, but...I don't want to do that. 

 

Rachel's use of MySpace is ALREADY a joke in 2009. It's one of the things that makes her a loser. So Figgins' "joke" is accurate to the pilot in that they talk about MySpace but not in that MySpace already isn't cool. Also, Sue brags about having an iPhone. Hee.

 

Also on the realism note in response to someone who mentioned this: It's totally true that Rachel's friends would be Tony-adjacent. Even at Radio City, there are so many people involved with making shows who they have to squeeze in, actor nominees only get one guest, two tops. There's no way they'd get to go. I didn't mention this in the post because by that point in the night I felt I'd gassed on enough but I thought Rachel's calm "I'm not going to win" was the most telling change in her character, even more than her surrogate pregnancy. 

 

And in what capacity did Klaine "do" a gay Virginia Wolfe? Fine, do a gay Virginia Wolfe but they're far too young for the leads and no one cares about the other couple enough for it to have made them famous!

 

Okay, done now. Thanks, everyone! :)

Edited March 22, 2015 by adam807

[caracas1914]

I thought it was a meta wink comment on how many viewed the Klaine relationship as toxic and unhealthy, a gay George and Martha, but I'm probably giving the writers way too much credit.

Edited March 22, 2015 by caracas1914

[missalanny]

 

Why does she have to end up with anybody? Why can't be she her own strong independant woman in her mid-20s who doesn't necessarily need to be with someone to be fullfilled and happy? I mean, I can understand people wanting everything tied up for the characters, but (and this applies to all of them, not just Rachel) they're all way too young for that now. If it were 20 years later, I'd agree, but 5 years later? Let these early to mid-20s people live it up and have fun.

 

Couldn't agree with this more. 

 

As for the "Finn was worse" argument that some of your are piling on out of nowhere... uh, yeah, who said he wasn't? I know I never said anything about Team Finchel myself.  But, say what happened never happened and it all ended with Finn and Rachel together... well, we would have seen those characters come back together, I assume.  My point is that we didn't SEE Rachel and Jesse come together.  In the actual show, we have just the smallest moments of evidence that Jesse isn't a slimeball, and one pivotal one - when he vouched for Rachel to Carmen Tribideaux - we have to just assume Rachel found out about at some point, because like someone already pointed out earlier, he did that without her knowing. We didn't see the part where Jesse fully redeems himself to Rachel... is all I'm saying. We saw plenty... PLENTY... of Finchel.  And undoubtedly would have gotten plenty more... If Finn was alive and they were really "endgame" afterall, I'm sure that regardless of whether I agreed with it (and I wouldn't have, if only for the same reasons I think it's dumb that any of the characters are married... they are children, imo), I would have gotten plenty of footage of their "love story." 

[Jenesis]

 

 

Why does she have to end up with anybody? Why can't be she her own strong independant woman in her mid-20s who doesn't necessarily need to be with someone to be fullfilled and happy? I mean, I can understand people wanting everything tied up for the characters, but (and this applies to all of them, not just Rachel) they're all way too young for that now. If it were 20 years later, I'd agree, but 5 years later? Let these early to mid-20s people live it up and have fun.

 

Because she's Rachel, not Mercedes. She's not expected to do without a loving partner and to be strong. In fact, she has to have a OTPing and all the solos. She needs them more.

[Miles]

What I forgot to mention is that it was really weird to me seeing Jonathan Groff kissing a woman after watching more than a season of Looking. (btw. now that you guys have an open slot, I can highly recommend that show)

It's going to sound odd but I wish they'd reversed the order and gotten the wish fulfillment hour out of the way (which I agree was an aimless, semi-likable mess with a few isolated bright spots), ending on "2009." If a finale is supposed to reference a Pilot, what better way than a totally different Pilot, knowing how these characters will end up? And ending on "Don't Stop Believin'" would've been a more powerful capper than "three plaques on a dark wall."

Me too. I said before I was just mentally erasing the second hour of the finale and remembering the 2009-part as the finale, but I think switching them around works as well.

But hey, any time-jumping finale where Ted doesn't end up with Robin is automatically good.

Well, I wouldn't say "good", but a lot better, yeah. This finale wasn't lumberjacked, but it wasn't really good either.

I didn't see it as cramming in more people. That footage was all from the pilot, including Puck walking in and then leaving and Sue, Quinn, and Santana (whose name we didn't even know at that point). It illustrated the entire point of the 2009 flashback, which was showing where they started (which in turn emphasized how much they had changed by Dreams Come True). I don't think reminding us of the original members coming together as a group for the first time with DSB in any way diminshed characters who were introduced later. If anything, it's a way of telling us that if not for those original members deciding to work on DSB on their own despite Will quitting, there wouldn't have been other members like Brittany (who I never personally saw as more important than the original members, no matter how good her dancing was).

I did not remember that. I last saw the pilot when it originally aired. (although I will rewatch it now, but I won't make the mistake of watching further. :D) Makes it obvious how old the actor already looked when they started years ago. :D

I guess that makes it better, since it was part of the original episode. It would have been a little insulting had they cut it now. But it still would have flowed better as a finale without it. This wasn't the series opener now, afterall.

I can't really be mad at "Glee", despite all the times I was mad at it. I keep coming back to the fact that if a show like this had been around when I was in high school it would have meant a lot; it means something even now.

What is that saying? The oppisite of love is not hate, it's indifference. To hate is to care. I think we wouldn't have watched for all this time if we didn't care. It's just that it could have been so much more.

And yes a show like this being around would have meant a lot when I was in high school, or even in grade school when I first had a crush on a boy for the first time and asked myself if I was sick or something, since I had never even heard of gay people existing. So I'm glad kids today had Glee, I just wish they had had a better show, than it was, after the first few seasons.

---

I actually rewatched the pilot now and man was it nice when there was no/limited auto tuning. I actually fast forewarded through a lot of the music the past few seasons, it got so bad. Now I'm even more sad for the Glee that once was and what it could have been.