S05.E14: Spend

[wmdekooning]

-  Was Abe contemplating suicide?  Just amping himself up for whatever??  Didn't quite get his stuff tonight, pre-walker attack.

I thought he was getting ready to touch up the color in his Lucy Ricardo coloured hair...

[okerry]

Okay, now I get the Alexandrians.

 

Rick's group doesn't leave anyone behind. They have the same philosophy as the real-life U.S. military.

 

But for the Alexandrians, it's accepted that the way to survive is to Otis your companions when necessary.

 

Wow. No wonder their town is kinda small.

[SoSueMe]

I feel like I missed something big.  When was it established 100% that Pete is abusing either Jessie or Sam? Or is it just that Carol suspects that has happened and because Pete is a drunk porchdick, the conclusion being jumped to is that he's an abuser?

Yeah, and Jessie has no problem wearing tank tops so no upper arm bruises to worry about....also after Rick's peck on her cheek at the party she did not seem particularly alarmed that Pete might have seen...

[HalcyonDays]

Yeah, and Jessie has no problem wearing tank tops so no upper arm bruises to worry about....also after Rick's peck on her cheek at the party she did not seem particularly alarmed that Pete might have seen...

 

It's entirely possibly that Jessie and Pete are doing some shady stuff behind closed doors - like some kinky bondage thing or something. Or holding someone hostage? The weekly cases from How to Get Away with Murder and a couple episodes of Forever keep popping up in my head of what twisted thing it could be.

 

Remember, the Governor seemed "normal" until we found out he was hiding Walker heads in a fish tank.

[lulee]

I thought he was getting ready to touch up the color in his Lucy Ricardo coloured hair...

Waaaaaah, Ricky!!!

 

I did think it was true to Abraham that he seemed re-invigorated to have a well-defined sense of purpose again. He was thrown for such a loop by the revelation of Eugene's deceit and the end of the DC mission. Too bad for his wife (and kids) that she couldn't accept the potential for his leadership in the new ZA world.

[beaker73]

 

 

If I understood correctly, that was the idea - blast music loudly on the way out, to draw any local lumberers after the van and away from the ASZ perimeter..

 

 

Did Deanna's reaction to Tobin's abdication of his construction team leader role to Abraham strike anybody else as... interesting? 

I had the distinct impression she was somewhat out-of-sorts at this turn of events - as if Abraham's assumption of this leadership role threw a monkey wrench into one - or some - of Deanna's plans.

 

I'm quite certain of several things:

1. Deanna saw right through FPP - her response to him was pure political blow-off.
2. Deanna knows exactly what kind of person her son is - and, by extension, what kind of people her son considers friends.
3. Regardless of her true knowledge and/or feelings about people and events, Deanna is perfectly capable of ignoring the truth if using those people/events as manipulation tools will advance her own agenda.  Even if she (rightfully) believes Aiden was a coward and self-destructive man-child, she will wholeheartedly lead a public drive for Aiden's canonization - and Glenn's public crucifixion - if it advances her goals.

 

Yes!  I thought Deanna's reaction was indeed....interesting.  There was also something, IDK, sinister (?) about what she said to Maggie about another one of their group being in a position of power and she was beginning to see a pattern.  I don't think she was complimenting them.

[marceline]

Yes, of course I remember Morgan and his son Duane from the very first episode.  His 1-episode arc in season 1 (and craziness in a later episode) didn't make much of an impact on me  And I don't know the actor from anything else.  Just trying to understand the love and excitement.  Thanks.

 

I'm a big fan of the actor but I think some of the excitement around Morgan is the fact that he's still alive. On a show where people die constantly, I think the fact Morgan is still alive and making it out there on his own imbues the character with a bit of a superhero vibe. JMHO.

[lulee]

With regard to Pete being abusive and whether there could be anything else going on in that house:

 

Many have (rightfully) criticized information being presented as canon on TTD that was absent from TWD itself. We may have had another moment of that last night: I'm pretty sure Hardwick referred to Pete as being "abusive" or "hitting Jessie".

 

Although that wouldn't preclude other red-flag stuff going on at their house or with Sam that might make him seek out a gun.

Edited March 17, 2015 by lulee

[GoldenHera]

It's entirely possibly that Jessie and Pete are doing some shady stuff behind closed doors - like some kinky bondage thing or something. Or holding someone hostage? The weekly cases from How to Get Away with Murder and a couple episodes of Forever keep popping up in my head of what twisted thing it could be.

Remember, the Governor seemed "normal" until we found out he was hiding Walker heads in a fish tank.

 

While I am skeptical that Pete is 100% the abuser given the evidence, I never considered that both parents are shady. It's entirely possible...I'd also like to throw older brother Ron into the mix. In the scene in which Carl is introduced to the teenage gang, some on the board mentioned Ron's possessive hand on Enid. Maybe he pushed Sam around a bit. I'm reaching but, I just want this to be more than the pedestrian story line it appears. 

 

Good point lulee. I think we can't take anything said on TTD by Hardwicke as law. I was given the impression that he is not privy to extensive spoilers of the show. He's just speculating like the rest of us. 

Edited March 16, 2015 by GoldenHera

[paigow]

It's entirely possibly that Jessie and Pete are doing some shady stuff behind closed doors - like some kinky bondage thing or something. Or holding someone hostage? 

50 Shades of Grey Owls. Push the envelope with blindfolded haircuts.

[Shriekingeel]

I loved the Carol/Sam scene. Melissa did a great job showing Carol fighting with herself not to care about the kid.

[BrokenRemote]

Yes!  I thought Deanna's reaction was indeed....interesting.  There was also something, IDK, sinister (?) about what she said to Maggie about another one of their group being in a position of power and she was beginning to see a pattern.  I don't think she was complimenting them.

 

Yeah, it seemed weird to me that Deanna was upset about a third person being put in a position of power...when she put the first 2 there with no nudging from anyone, on the part of her people or Rick's.  I think what we're seeing, in a lot of storylines, is what happens when they have certain stories they want to do (whether from the comics or not), and they try to cram too many of them into one season.  They have dozens of characters now with no way they can give a lot of time to any of them, and it feels like the way they're having to rush a lot of the stories is coming off as clunky to a majority, in one storyline or another.  I'm not too bothered by it, because I feel they're in the most interesting place they've been in a long time, but I do think they could have made this Alexandria arc (and its many storylines) stretch well into next season.

Edited March 16, 2015 by BrokenRemote

[Pestilentia]

 

Re: The Owl Sculpture: Harbinger of Society's Demise, I think we were all robbed of CDB's reaction when Rick explains that he spent the day interrogating ASZers looking for the culprit of a metal sculpture smashing. Could you imagine Sasha's face? Comedy gold.

I don't understand how Jessie even has time to worry about her... "art." At the rate they were downing cocktails you'd think she would be out there planting corn or hilling up potatoes. Or keeping the medical area/s clean and stocked, or chasing down Carl for a much needed trimmin'.

There just has to be a better use for the time of a strong and healthy person.

[Anithe1]

I interpreted that scene in an entirely different way.  I found it very sibling-ish, with Tara's position being, "I am now going to tease my brother about this girl because I think he might liiiike her..."    As charming as I find Tara now and as much as I would like to see her find someone nice, your POV for that scene never occurred to me!

 

Oh gosh, that's how I read it too - it seemed like a really bad omen for Noah at the time, to have him doing optimistic things like talking to girls and asking about architect training and thinking about the future in general.

 

The brand-new law enforcement feels that he's always on duty so he should remain sober (well, most of the time), but the town's only doctor is OK with being drunk in the middle of the day? I hope he has assistants to help him deal with Tara's head injury.

 

I was just thinking this apocalypse had a shortage of religious wackiness. So thanks for that, Father Gabriel.

[RainOnToosdays]

 At some point Rick will have proof positive that Pete is an abuser, given the small confines of the town.  As the law (and because he has feelings for Jessie), he'll be bound to investigate.  Pete will become belligerent.  Things will escalate until there is a confrontation, leading to Rick having to kill Pete either to protect Jessie and the children, or himself.  He'll be forced to kill Pete in the end.

 

Wanted to comment on that but probably better suited for the Speculation thread. Where ever that is. I'm taking my response there when I find it. 

 

• Noah's death was the most horrific thing I've seen on this show, ever, incredibly amplified by Glenn's magnificent reaction. Emmy for Steven Yeun.

 

I've been thinking more on that and Aidan's death scene. Over the top compared to anything we've seen before and they lingered on them for so long. Apparently there was a different director on this episode and that surely accounts for some of it but I think now these scenes were more horrific then most in order to really bring home the contrast between "out there" and Alexandria. Two episodes of relative calm and then BLAM! we're jolted out of our stupor. 

 

Also have to say , it ought to be a Cardinal Rule that no matter what, always, always, save at least one bullet per person so you can put people down and spare them the horrific agonizing death of being eaten alive. 

[kj4ever]

From the construction crew...Did any of you get the impression that not only are they innocent to this whole ZA, but lazy.  I loved the look on Abraham's face when they told him how long things took, and I loved it when it got in their ass to get back to work and pick up the pace.

[KarateKate]

But known to us viewers as such, not Gabriel. He's actually only been with them for maybe 3 weeks or so. He would have sounded less unhinged and hyperbolic if he'd said, "I saw what they did to one group." etc.

More than fair point. 

I still think Fr. Gabe isn't completely wrong that Rick's group is a threat to ASZ, but almost more in a "stopped clock is right twice a day" sort of way. 

 

[shadow2008]

No! Not Noah! Why couldn't it have been the coward or Father Gabriel instead?

Edited March 16, 2015 by shadow2008

[HalcyonDays]

The town's only doctor is OK with being drunk in the middle of the day?

 

My first though when I saw Pete with the beers was not "he's a doctor, so he should remain sober" but "where's he getting all of the brew from?"

 

It's not like the large scale (or even small) breweries are operating at all, and beer has a shelf life. On top of that, the nearby liquor stores were probably razed months/years ago. Just think of how busy liquor stores are during the holidays or a summer long weekend. The stores would have been empty one week into the apocalypse.

 

So where is their supply coming from? They had tons of booze at that little cocktail party. There could be moonshine made on site, sure, but I doubt they are growing hops and barley at ASZ to make Alexandria Pale Ale or whatever.

 

Also, rationing. Unlike the chocolate, it seems like any anyone can take what they want beer wise. Unless Pete is paid for his services via beer/wine/hard liquor.

[CletusMusashi]

They have apples. Maybe they're refilling old beer bottles with hard cider. Or mead. 

Or, they are growing hops and barley. Think about who they've been sending on supply runs. "Sorry, dude, we didn't have time to grab any cabbage seeds, but we got more hops!"

Edited March 17, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[Constantinople]

Even when Rick put his hand on the gun, I never for a second thought that he was pulling a Shane. In fact, Rick is not Shane. He does not go around attempting to rape women or murder their husbands. Rick is being hypervigilant about everyone in Alexandria, not just Pete.

Perhaps it's just me, but I don't think Rick was being hypervigilant when he touched his gun after Jessie flashed her A at him.

 

 

It's entirely possibly that Jessie and Pete are doing some shady stuff behind closed doors - like some kinky bondage thing or something. Or holding someone hostage?

Or a three-way with a walker?

That's why Sam wants the gun. To put the poor thing out of its misery.

[Luckylyn]

I didn't realize how attached I was to Noah until he died.  This really upset me in the way a character death hasn't in a while.  He had a ton of potential as a character.   This death is one that will linger with me. 

 

I'm trying to figure out what the hell is going on in FPP head.   There are only two reasons I can think of for him to betray the group after they kept him alive when they easily could have left him to his own devices. 

 

1) In order to cope with what he did to his parishoners he's had to cling to denial projecting his selfish actions to CDB. 

 

2) As far as I can tell, no one has told the Alexandrians what FPP did.   Because he's supposed to be a holy man, the Alexidrians probably treat him really well.   He wants to turn the Alexandrians against CDB inorder to either exile them before they tell the truth about him or create so much distrust that no one will believe what CDB has to say about him.

 

His total lack of gratitude towards the people who kept him alive is really vile. 

[BrokenRemote]

Perhaps it's just me, but I don't think Rick was being hypervigilant when he touched his gun after Jessie flashed her A at him.

 

 

Or a three-way with a walker?

That's why Sam wants the gun. To put the poor thing out of its misery.

I took Rick touching his gun as him going back into cop mode.  He sees something that gets his cop radar going (woman pulls away from man, is there going to be trouble?) and feels for his gun as though he's reassuring himself it's there if he needs it, if things escalate.  Sort of like a cop might do every time he gets out of his car at the scene of a problem.

[meep.meep]

So there's no divorce in the zombie apocalypse?  There are apparently lots of empty houses; Jessie and her kids could just move.  That's what Carol should be advocating, not killing the guy.  Who, even  as the town drunk, is apparently the only trained medical professional.

[kikismom]

First of all, sorry to everyone whose great comments I have not been able to give a thumbs up to---because I reached my quota for 24hrs within the first few pages.

 

Which brings me to the second point:

My Dearest Mod:

Since you seemed to be pleased by the 880 posts within 4 days on the last ep; couldn't you spot us a few more thumbs? I imagine when the limit number was chosen it wasn't expected to be this busy. After all, there are only 16 episodes per season for TWD; when we finally get new episodes we are like the proverbial kid in a candy store. Pretty please limas and peas with cocoa powder on top?

 

And why was Noah even on the run? If he's getting his George Costanza on and pretending to be an architect, shouldn't he be at the construction site?

 

RIP Art VanDelay :-p

 

 

 
Did Deanna's reaction to Tobin's abdication of his construction team leader role to Abraham strike anybody else as... interesting? 

...I'm quite certain of several things:

Yeah, I am quite certain that when Deanna interviewed CDB, she also sat on the sofa, but they sat on the chair opposite; when she had her meet with Tobin, Chevy and Maggie had 2 chairs opposite her, Tobin was beside her, and the camcorder on tripod was visible opposite the sofa facing Tobin and Deanna.

Just wondering about that effing camcorder.

 

The ASZers have been behind the wall for about two years, so wouldn't they know where all their liquor supply is going if Pete's been a constant drinker?  If Aaron is such a great recruiter, why couldn't he have found another doctor by now? 

 

My major problem with this is that this show has taken its time on so many things, and now we're rushed into thinking Pete's an abuser (because he's day drunk, his kid is a little sneaky shit, and his wife can't be disturbed).

Aaron said the community had existed for less than a year.

 

Lots of comments on being rushed into thinking Pete's an abuser, being rushed into Rick and Jessie,  but Eugene goes like a flash from longtime coward who never steps up to hero, Father PP rushing to race Sasha to the breakdown train, rushed Daryl from 4 and 1/2 years of being aloof guy to copacetic just-happy-to-be-here guy, rushed Abraham from sullen depressed drinker to Bob the Builder it's great to be alive in who'sDeannatown...and oops we ran out of time for Rosita and Michonne and Carl.

They must be on some drugs in the writer's room if they spent 4 episodes on Beth and crammed all this in...something tells me it had more to do with building permits in Senoia or some behind the scenes off -camera budget shit that made them kill time then work fast to make up for it. JMO.

 

 But once again Pete offering to check up the Grimes kids was the most menacing thing he said.

Talk about people on this show who are inexplicably obsessed.

He's only talked to Rick 3 times, and two of those times he wants to give those kids the once-over.

 

Which to me is odd because they were doing fine, didn't seem to need a rush exam.

But meanwhile Noah had the bad leg and Dr. McDrunkypants didn't give a shit.

 

Abe has a constant wound on his hand and a cut arm? Ah, fuck wounds.

 

People on this thread have mentioned doctors could also be good for mental emotional counseling, wasn't old Jim Beam at the party when poor Sasha almost fell apart listening to their happy horseshit cocktail chat? Did he ask if she needed something. No.

 

He must know Glenn and Maggie are a young couple, and Abe and Rosita are lovers too---they've all been out there a long time. Could they need some contraception? Don't bother him, he's just the doctor.

 

They have ALL been out there a long time; but he's only set on seeing Rick's kids.

 

He may not be an abuser, but he sure has strange priorities!

 

7.  Alone.  I don't see anything productive about killing Pete.  Yes, he's a wife beater.  That needs to stop, but he also the only doctor.  Honestly, I liked Shane's approach, beat him to a bloody pulpl and dare him to lift his hand to ANY woman ever again.  He can be removed, detained and punished for his crime - but killing him is a waste and is, pardon the pun, overkill.

 

8. Father PP.  Sigh.  Clearly he's insane.  I just find his character personally frustrating.  I am tired of seeing religious people portrayed as weak, cowardly maniacs.   Just once I'd like to see someone whose faith keeps them going.  That said, he can die.  He's too dangerous in my book.  He doesn't just preserve self, he throws people (children even) under the bus so that it slows down enough for him to get away.  He's trash.

 

10. Alone again, this show feels weird to me, not at all the same show.  They need to stop killing people so much because they will lose viewers if there is NOTHING interesting or pleasant about the show.  I know it is brutal and the subject matter is what it is but I tuned in to see people SURVIVE.

I agree about trying a good old fashioned beating for Pete first. I see a lot of going to murder as the first and only solution and I understand there were previous times that they should have killed someone instead of just beating---like creepy Martin---- but he was a CANNIBAL!

There may not be prisons but all those people need to discuss having some alternative to dealing with trouble inside the camp.

I was always glad that Herschel still believed there was a purpose, and kept his faith. I think Maggie will return to it.

Andrew Lincoln kept saying the back 8 would be like a whole different show. I didn't see how, but now when I think of earlier times I cannot imagine Lori or Dale or

Andrea being in this story.

 

Oh, yeah, I forgot about Beth.  LOL

 

So, don't keep us in suspense---how did you do it?!

 

Have we ever been told how many alexandrites there are?  You have to figure that Abraham converted at least half a dozen to his side that day.

 

There were 30 people plus now Rick's 15 made 45. Now minus Noah, and Aidan, and not sure about Tara, 43? 42?  CDB once had as many as 50, in the prison, and ended up with 15 after the prison fell.

 

 

IRe: The Owl Sculpture: Harbinger of Society's Demise, I think we were all robbed of CDB's reaction when Rick explains that he spent the day interrogating ASZers looking for the culprit of a metal sculpture smashing. Could you imagine Sasha's face? Comedy gold.

 

TWD's issue was that there seemed to be a black man quota. One black man would die and then another would be introduced, making it seem as though only one black man could be allowed on the series for an extended amount of time. It has never been an issue of how many different races are killed per episode. It's fine if you don't care, but some of us like to think critically about media.

"Owl Sculpture : Harbinger of Society's Demise wasn't my point (but it's funny nevertheless!). I wonder if someone smashed Maggie's jewelry box to pieces, or if Michonne still had that beautiful papier-mache cat and found someone had deliberately trashed it? I guess I imagine Sasha would still have the right to say that's what you're worried about! and it would be comedy gold to some. But I felt----JMO--- it's not about what the object is---in this case an art project Jessie was doing with her sons Ron and Sam (as she had explained). To me it was more about who would even want to vandalize property and why? But YMMV.

 

The bad: I really thought this show had gotten beyond the one black guy at a time thing. Earlier this season we had a randomly thrown together group with a variety of people of color. Which is important, because while the US population is only about 12.5% African American, the group is supposed to be from Georgia. A randomly thrown together group from Georgia is going to be more than 30% Black. We finally got to a more representative group of characters by adding Bob

(whom I understand is white in the comics? I haven't actually read them),

and Noah, who was invented just for TV. This was encouraging. But then they go and kill everybody. Now I don't want them to kill off FPP no matter how much I don't like him. If they kill him and then add another token Black man, I will scream at the TV.

 

There's only been one Asian, male or female, in the entire history of the series. Latinos are way under-represented as well. I do think another poster had an interesting point that people tend to gravitate toward their most similar cultural backgrounds and POC may have chosen to make groups of predominately Asian, AA, or Latino group members (Vatos, anyone?)

Actually, POC may have chosen to avoid CDB; Vatos didn't want to combine with this group, and we have all said since waaaay back on TWoP that the Morales family had the right idea---get out at the quarry while they still had their lives. Just watch Rick and Shane argue about CDC?No, Ft. Benning! would make anyone with a brain start hedging: "Yeaaah, we can't come along, um, we have to go to Alabama."Oh, yeah, Alabama we have family there, don't we honey?"  "RIght, right, our people are in...um...Birmingham? SEE YA!"   I wouldn't assume that POC would be necessarily wanting to join up with Rick's Roving Band O' Yahoos.

 

I thought it was really neat how Constable Rick stopped by Mrs. Anderson’s place and talked to her about her vandalized owl sculpture.  Most police officers are too busy chasing criminals and stuff but Constable Rick takes the time to talk to the people on his beat.  I knew he would do a good job investigating who the culprit was because he said he didn’t have anything else to do that day.  And sure enough he reported later that day that he had asked around and no one saw anything!  Gosh.  Mrs. Anderson’s lucky Constable Rick is fond of her.  Like at the party the other day when he gave her that peck on the check like she was his dear old Auntie.  Maybe she reminds him of a family member he’s lost touch with, it’s hard to say, but she sure was good with Judith!  I wonder what other neat stuff will happen on Constable Rick’s beat next week?

Golly gee, are most police officers too busy chasing criminals? Someone needs to tell them it's been a ZA for almost 2 years and there is no police force and there certainly isn't any pay and there's no place to put criminals anyway so I don't know what all those cops are doing there old jobs for!

Since Constable RIck really didn't have anything else to do that day because the place is like a giant Stouffer's Thanksgiving commercial I guess somebody better start committing crimes. At least one crime. Something better that vandalism. Maybe murder? Gee whiz it sure is a shame Merle isn't around.  He would talk to people on his beat...or is that beat people who talk to him? Anyhoo, he would sure get lucky even with someone's dear old Auntie, the one he calls "SugarTits", and show her the member that he hasn't lost his touch with. I wonder what neat stuff he would have next week in his Ziploc bag? He could report crime--as soon as there is any,  for the police, as soon as there are any.

[blackwing]

It's entirely possibly that Jessie and Pete are doing some shady stuff behind closed doors - like some kinky bondage thing or something. Or holding someone hostage? The weekly cases from How to Get Away with Murder and a couple episodes of Forever keep popping up in my head of what twisted thing it could be.

Pete is obviously being written as intentionally mysterious.  I have absolutely no idea what is going on with him.  He seems particularly eager to get his hands on Rick's body.  When they initially met, one of the very first things he said was to offer to check Rick out.  Then he added that he should first say he's a doctor.  Then tonight, he reminds Rick in a "I'm pissed you didn't accept my offer to let me examine you" way that he already offered once to give Rick a physical.  Maybe it's some kind of threesome honeypot.

 

And yes, he also offered to check out the kids.  I suppose this angle makes more sense if he turns out to indeed be a child abuser.

Edited March 16, 2015 by blackwing

[Ruprecht]

There were so many interesting posts about Carol and Rick and Carol's intuition that Pete was abusing his family so I'll keep this brief. All I could think of was "Breaking Bad" and Mike's story to Walt that started and ended with "No half measures". (https://youtu.be/EIG7VvngUK4) Even now, I think "What would Mike say?"

Carol and Rick (regardless of his hormones) have either experienced or seen this same story and can predict with some certainty what's going to happen with Pete and his family. I'm not convinced that Carol was telling Rick "Go kill him". I believe she was seeing the probable progression and saying "No matter what he promises, Pete is going to escalate the abuse until you will have to make the decision on who survives that situation." It was more of acknowledgment that they had to be active participants, not bystanders. In fact, I would speculate that the abuse is not unknown to others in AFZ but because they need a doctor, they turn a blind eye and keep him supplied with alcohol.

That said, I do believe this storyline as it is presented is clunky but I've never watched TWD for nuanced storytelling. It's about the zombies and those who try to survive.

[SimoneS]

Perhaps it's just me, but I don't think Rick was being hypervigilant when he touched his gun after Jessie flashed her A at him. 

 

Seriously? I simply don't get how you or others could actually believe that Rick was/is considering murdering a man to get a woman who he just met in to bed. It is perplexing how one brief moment of hyperviligance has morphed Rick into Shane or Phillip in the minds of some of you. This is so strange to me. It is like the previous four seasons of watching Rick struggle to hold onto his sanity, saving people time and time again never happened. Yes, he has brutally killed people, but he had little choice in every one of those cases. Rick would NEVER murder someone in cold blood unless he had to save someone's life. Rick is fundamentally a good man, period, that has not and will never change.

Edited March 16, 2015 by SimoneS

[chlban]

I wasn't particularly invested in Noah at first, particularly since he led them to his old neighborhood only to get Tyreese killed. But last night when he was talking to Reg and getting excited about learning engineering and architecture - planning a future other than mopping hospital floors and trying not to get beat up by the Grady gorillas - well, his death just made me extra-sad.

Isn't that kind of the point though? I haven't been watching new episodes that long,  I got trapped in a Marathon and did most of my viewing there, but it kind of seems like the minute they start giving a reason to care about a character, particularly if they haven't been around that long, they're toast. Or perhaps Zombie chow is a better description.

 

Even with Douchey, they had to show mom and dad saying good bye when last time he went on a run Mom didn't seem even remotely concerned. As soon as I saw that, and the scene with Noah talking about the future and wanting to learn that both of them were casualties. I didn't assume it would come last night, but I figured by the Season Finale they were both goners.

 

I actually have a similar vibe about Jessie, although I don't think it will happen this season. But I will take that to another thread. 

[CletusMusashi]

Can we stop calling the owl a "sculpture" yet? The thing's been taken apart so many times now I think it's officially just a "puzzle."

[lulee]

Can we stop calling the owl a "sculpture" yet? The thing's been taken apart so many times now I think it's officially just a "puzzle."

Or perhaps a "jenga."

[tennisgurl]

 

Even now, I think "What would Mike say?"

I say that all the time, in my daily life, so I understand this a lot!

 

I really don`t like the "Pete is an abuser" thing. First of all, I totally think he is abusive. I called that from day one. Story wise, its an easy way to get rid of him so Rick and Jessie can hook up. Unfortunately, I am just not into that story. I don't really have any feelings towards Jessie right now. She seems nice enough, but that's about it. She kind of comes off as the sweet, innocent blond lady that Rick can save to be the hero. It does not leave Jessie with much to do other than be the girl in a Lifetime Original Movie.

 

Does everyone in the town know Pets abusive? Its a small place, someone has to have caught on. I get that they have to keep in there, as their only doctor, but cant they lock him up, put the fear of God into him, or at least help Same and Jessie move? I need to know more about the situation before I make any judgments I guess. But, right now, I just want them to focus on our gang and their issues, not this whole other family and their stuff.  

[ghoulina]

Yes!  I thought Deanna's reaction was indeed....interesting.  There was also something, IDK, sinister (?) about what she said to Maggie about another one of their group being in a position of power and she was beginning to see a pattern.  I don't think she was complimenting them.

 

Yea, no doubt. It's really grinding her gears. And the fact that it's irritating her is grinding MY gears. First of all, it's not like anyone came in demanding authority positions. She GAVE Rick and Michonne the cop jobs. And then Tobin insisted Abraham take over construction after witnessing his abilities outside the walls. That's three people, so she needs to simmer down. But she knew this group was tough and capable when she brought them in, so what did she expect?

 

 

 

I took Rick touching his gun as him going back into cop mode.  He sees something that gets his cop radar going (woman pulls away from man, is there going to be trouble?) and feels for his gun as though he's reassuring himself it's there if he needs it, if things escalate.  Sort of like a cop might do every time he gets out of his car at the scene of a problem.

 

I saw it as a mix of "cop mode", like you're talking about - but also, just being "out there" too long. They had gotten so used to danger being around every corner, and not just in walker form. I bet it has become almost an instinct to reach for your weapon when something pings your radar. Seconds count. Look how quickly they reacted at Terminus. Rick is a well oiled machine. And Jessie definitely gave off a big of a vibe there when she slightly pulled away from Pete.

Edited March 16, 2015 by ghoulina

[okerry]

>>By the way, why was this episode called "Spend?"

I could probably think of atleast two dozen one-verb titles that would be more appropriate.

 

Maybe it's referring to the ASZhat's philosophy of "spending" their companions when necessary to save their own worthless hides - ? I'd like to know, too.

[Sakura12]

Rick is a changed man now. He's more caveman mentality than good cop. Why would he put his hand on his gun just as Jessie and her husband were walking by him in Pleasantville? What other reason would he have to do that other than him thinking about talking out the husband to get the woman he wants. He didn't do anything which is a good thing, but I wouldn't put it past him to do it. Now he has an excuse. 

 

Rick like most of the group have been out there too long. They think more like animals than regular people. There's a threat, kill it.

[AndySmith]

Even with Douchey, they had to show mom and dad saying good bye when last time he went on a run Mom didn't seem even remotely concerned. As soon as I saw that, and the scene with Noah talking about the future and wanting to learn that both of them were casualties.

 

I kind of had a feeling that Noah's days were numbered once Glenn and Maggie welcomed him into "the family" last week. I just didn't think it would be this soon. i thought he'd be killed off in the season finale. Speaking of which, we now have a Death Slot open for that episode!

 

And Aaron...well, in this episode he had a sweet moment with his parents, deferred to Glenn, AND complimented Glenn & co. on their experience. He can't become a nice guy and stay on this show, so...

Edited March 16, 2015 by AndySmith

[okerry]

>>>Tobin telling Deanna about Abraham's heroics is meant to tell us some of the Alexandrians are honest folk even if they do drop the ball when they get scared.

 

And now I'm wondering if this isn't going to get Tobin in trouble with the ASZhats. They might not like it if they're expected to step up and show some courage. Things have been working fine for them up to now and they've accepted that sometimes a person or four might have to be left behind. I'm not sure they'll like being told that they're cowards and should rethink their lives.

[kikaha]

Gabriel, hypocrite though he is, pretty much told Deanna the truth.  From the start Rick has talked about taking the entire walled community.  I didn't hear any argument from the others in his group about this.  Carol now says they only have one option with Jessie's husband: kill him. 

 

Before Rick & Co entered the scene, the Alexandrians somehow survived and even thrived.  How much longer will that hold true?  Looks pretty ominous to me. 

 

I also wonder how forgiving and sanguine Deanna will be when she learns walkers killed and ate her son?

[stretch]

>>By the way, why was this episode called "Spend?"

I could probably think of atleast two dozen one-verb titles that would be more appropriate.

 

Maybe it's referring to the ASZhat's philosophy of "spending" their companions when necessary to save their own worthless hides - ? I'd like to know, too.

 

I saw somewhere (can't remember where, originally) that the episode titles are a callback to Dale's Faulkner quote in season 1:

 

"I like what the father said to the son when he gave him a watch that had been handed down through generations. He said: ‘I give you a mausoleum of all hope and desire which will fit your individual needs, no better than it did mine and my father before me. I give it to you not that you may remember time, but that you may forget it. For a moment, now and then, and not spend all of your breath trying to conquer it.’”

[Timetoread]

Hasn't anyone told the folks at Alexandria that you can't kill the zombies if you shoot them in the body? They all seem to aim for the body yet they see the CDB folks go straight for the head. Somebody better instruct them. No wonder they are so getting killed off.

 

They already know.  Aaron makes nothing but headshots.

[HalcyonDays]

I give it to you not that you may remember time, but that you may forget it. For a moment, now and then, and not spend all of your breath trying to conquer it.’”

 

Someone mentioned this a few pages back, and the next two episodes are titled Try and Conquer.

[Anela]

Yes!  I thought Deanna's reaction was indeed....interesting.  There was also something, IDK, sinister (?) about what she said to Maggie about another one of their group being in a position of power and she was beginning to see a pattern.  I don't think she was complimenting them.

I thought that, as well. I thought it was stupid, given the fact that she had a really crazy-looking Rick, sitting in that chair, not sounding that healthy, and she compliments him - the next thing you know, he's the new Sheriff. She was finding jobs for people right off the bat - people who sat there and told her that they were almost out there too long - and now she's suspicious, when they're actually doing a good job?

[maystone]

I would think that the town would ration the hard liquor, and that's why there is so much left. It also does have its medicinal uses, so I think they'd want to keep track of it. Unless they gave the key to the liquor locker to Pete, in which case … uh-oh :) I'm also with the group who thinks there's some home brewing going on.

 

I believe that Pete is abusing Jessie. He'd know enough not to leave visible bruises, so I don't think that Jessie going sleeveless is enough proof that she's not getting knocked around. Someone upthread had commented that Jessie should take Sam and move into another house. It's never that simple. They live in a closed community; unless mom and son lock themselves away, they're going to be available to Pete to harass or worse. As to the community - hell, they won't even try to save someone in danger of losing their life; I can't see them stepping in between a husband and wife for what is a "domestic dispute." Especially when the husband is quite big, possibly drunk, and absolutely the only doctor in their known universe. Jessie and Sam were on their own.

 

I'm beginning to wonder, though, if Pete isn't part of the reason why Deanna wanted a constable on board.

[Ellaria]

I saw somewhere (can't remember where, originally) that the episode titles are a callback to Dale's Faulkner quote in season 1:

 

"I like what the father said to the son when he gave him a watch that had been handed down through generations. He said: ‘I give you a mausoleum of all hope and desire which will fit your individual needs, no better than it did mine and my father before me. I give it to you not that you may remember time, but that you may forget it. For a moment, now and then, and not spend all of your breath trying to conquer it.’”

 

Thanks for pointing out the connection to Dale's quote. I loved it then and I love it now. I'm sure that most of the audience will not remember it. It is worthy of a mention on TD. (It can replace the silly quizzes.)

[BrokenRemote]

Seriously? I simply don't get how you or others could actually believe that Rick was/is considering murdering a man to get a woman who he just met in to bed. It is perplexing how one brief moment of hyperviligance has morphed Rick into Shane or Phillip in the minds of some of you. This is so strange to me. It like the previous four seasons of watching Rick struggle to hold onto his sanity, saving people time and time again never happened. Yes, he has brutally killed people, but he had little choice in every one of those cases. Rick would NEVER murder someone in cold blood unless he had to save someone's life. Rick is fundamentally a good man, period, that will has not and will never change.

 

I'm with you here.  I don't get how Rick has lost any benefit of the doubt he ever earned because he had the temerity to look at a married woman.  Look.  Talk to.  Kiss on the cheek once. And yet everyone's decided he's halfway to raping her, three-quarters of the way to murdering her husband.  Like someone said above, I didn't take Carol's "you're going to have to kill him" as an order, just a resigned acceptance of the way things are likely to go down, based on what happened with Ed.  I didn't see Rick eagerly accepting and cleaning up his gun to get ready. 

 

I just think the character's earned a little more slack than he's getting.  I know a lot of people had their hearts set on seeing him with Michonne/Carol/Daryl whoever, and that the storyline's moving fast, but I don't see that as reason for all the vitriol Rick is getting.  No, they have not had him kill Pete so he can have Jessie.  Might that happen?  Sure.  Has it happened?  No.  I just can't get all worked up over things that are maybe down the road and maybe not.  Has nobody here ever had a crush on an unavailable person? 

[Nashville]

Beg to differ. The scene with Carol and Sam ended with Carol trying to get the kid to tell her; but it was cut off suddenly. Who knows what happened before she went to Pete's doorstep.This damn dark magic wily arch Carol---you don't have a bias? You are "team Carol all the way?"

 

Look, here's one thing we know---the kid wanted a gun.

 

  

When Carol started pressing Sam about why he wanted a gun, he replied, "It's not for me" - then immediately shut down on further discussion of the topic, as if afraid he'd already said too much. Which suggests he's protecting someone important/close to him, which in turn suggests immediate family or an extremely close friend - and since we haven't seen him and anybody else acting attached at the hip, I'd be more inclined to think it's a family affair.

I wonder about Aaron's role.

Last episode in a conversation with Daryl (I think) he said something along the lines of "I told Deanna not to give you a job..."

It's possible he has more authority in Alexandria than we've been shown.

  

I'd guess more input rather than more authority. He's the major part of Deanna's eyes and ears about Life Beyond the Wall - and possibly the only source she trusts/trusted, if her only other option was Aiden and what he saw on his runs.

Someone said CDB aren't murderers. At the very least I think Rick is. He runs down a man who was running away and who had his hands bound behind his back. Then he gets out of the car and kills the guy. If that isn't murder I don't know what is.

 

In Rick's mind, anyway, I think this fell more into the lines of justifiable homocide. A successful BadBob escape represented an immediate and intolerable threat to the survival of his team, so Rick acted to neutralize that threat by whatever means were warranted. Besides, he did ask BadBob to stop of his own accord - twice, IIRC - before running him down.

 

I don't see how Nicholas can lie and carry the day. Both Glen and Eugene saw what happened, in the revolving door and at the van afterward. Both the Alex group and Rick's group lost someone, and Rick's group also has another member gravely injured. Meanwhile, Tobin stuck up for Abraham, and Abraham (who has found a purpose again) saved one of the Alexs. So for anyone to believe FPP based on the events of last night's episode would be plot wanking of the highest order.

  

Simple - it's the word of one ASZhat against three CDBers. Who do you think the other ASZhats will believe?

Depending, of course, on just how outrageously douchey Aiden and NickTheDick were before CDB came to town....

Absolutely. You could see her internally freaking out at the prospect of CDB taking over all their positions of power. Well, what did she expect? They're running that place like a joke. They wanted this group for a reason, now deal with it. 

  

I think Deanna saw CDB as (a) useful sources of information about conditions Beyond the Wall, and (b) possible shock troops with a higher survival potential in terms of efforts to extend the ASZ's sphere of influence and/or territory. Where I think Deanna is coming up short is - while she knew people who had successfully survived Outside would have better coping/survival skills than most of the ASZhats, she had absolutely no comprehension just how big the skill gap was.

This also makes me think her appointment of Rick abd Michonne as constables was intended to be a figurehead thing - symbolic, but of no real substance. Seriously, what good is a constable with no jail?

For dinner and a movie, or coffee and a movie? ;)

 

If Carol suggests a date at the Botanical Gardens, Pete better run like hell.

 

 

Also, Eugene, what part of "HEAD SHOT" do you not understand?

 

  

Oh, I think he UNDERSTANDS it. EXECUTING it on the other hand....

    As far as keeping Pete alive because he is a doctor, we have yet to see what Deanna has come up with as a "justice system". I kidded about it earlier, but, outside of the prison, which was kind of set up for such a thing, do they have a way to "incarcerate" someone?

  

Echo. Reference what I said above. Maybe previous malcontents were simply "exiled"...?

I interpreted that scene in an entirely different way.  I found it very sibling-ish, with Tara's position being, "I am now going to tease my brother about this girl because I think he might liiiike her..."    

  

I started off thinking the same as you - until Tara made some statement... can't immediately remember what it was she said, but (to me, anyway) it immediately changed the context from her teasing Noah, to her pumping Noah for information.

[Anela]

Aiden's death, and then Noah - ugh. Seeing him slammed against that door. I figured he was on his way out, due to the beginning - he had plans, and seemed to be happy. I wasn't expecting Aiden to go so soon, and I wish that they'd kept Noah around longer. This is one of those times when I wish there were more episodes to the season. I guess they can't win either way, though - some people like the stories having more time (the farm, the governor), whilst others want things to move along. I just don't see the point of finding a place, only to have it potentially destroyed in a few episodes. 

Thanks for pointing out the connection to Dale's quote. I loved it then and I love it now. I'm sure that most of the audience will not remember it. It is worthy of a mention on TD. (It can replace the silly quizzes.)

I remember that. It was when Andrea had confided in Dale, that she'd been keeping track of time so that she could celebrate her sister's birthday. Then she didn't back Dale up, when he started talking about why he still had a watch. Something like that. 

Oh, and Father Pee-Pants can go the way of his parishioners. I take back whatever I said before, about the way Maggie spoke to him when they walking. 

[beaker73]

Rick is a changed man now. He's more caveman mentality than good cop. Why would he put his hand on his gun just as Jessie and her husband were walking by him in Pleasantville? What other reason would he have to do that other than him thinking about talking out the husband to get the woman he wants. He didn't do anything which is a good thing, but I wouldn't put it past him to do it. Now he has an excuse. 

 

Rick like most of the group have been out there too long. They think more like animals than regular people. There's a threat, kill it.

Because he got the same creepy vibe off of Pete that many of us here did?  Pete's been weird in every encounter with Rick--not just drunk, but odd.  After J & P walked past Rick, Pete touched Jessie's back and she flinched.  Rick saw that and I think his instinct was to check his gun in case of trouble.  I honestly cannot imagine Rick killing someone simply to get a piece of ass. 

 

I'm also not fully convinced that Pete is an abuser of Jessie.  It seems too obvious.

[Boofish]

Second douche in command had better be glad it was Glen because I can see any other member of CDB bringing him back in a body bag. Can't think of one of other member who would have shown him that type of mercy now that Tyrese is dead

I loved the expression on Carol's face when she opened the door and Sam stood there with the chocolate.


She was breaking my heart because it was so obvious that she didn't want to get close to another kid, but she still couldn't turn her back on him once she knew his secret. I wonder if maybe Sam sensed something in her, that she was someone who could help him.

Yes. He sensed that any psycho that would leave a kid to die would not be afraid of his father!! 

[ghoulina]

Gabriel, hypocrite though he is, pretty much told Deanna the truth.  From the start Rick has talked about taking the entire walled community.  I didn't hear any argument from the others in his group about this.  Carol now says they only have one option with Jessie's husband: kill him

 

It's unlikely Gabriel heard any of that - and neither did the others in the group. Rick has been keeping Carol and Daryl in close confidence, but he said it's important that the others try. Sure, FPP saw some of them massacre the Termites in his church and maybe it disturbed him. But they also saved him. And he was on the road with them for several weeks, he met people who weren't even AT the church massacre. Surely he could see there were softer, gentler people in the group - like Tyrese. There's a baby, for God's sake! He's lying flat out of his ass, as far as I'm concerned. 

 

I believe that Pete is abusing Jessie. He'd know enough not to leave visible bruises, so I don't think that Jessie going sleeveless is enough proof that she's not getting knocked around.

 

Agreed. He's not an idiot. Maybe he punches her in the stomach. Maybe he forces himself on her. Maybe he yells a lot and is verbally abusive. There doesn't have to be a typical black eye to indicate abuse. 

 

I'm beginning to wonder, though, if Pete isn't part of the reason why Deanna wanted a constable on board.

 

Hmmm, now THAT'S interesting. And she did send Jessie over to Rick right away....