Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)

[heckkitty]

39 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

I suppose that would demonstrate that your neuroplasticity consisted of plastic explosives. 

Sometimes I wish I were one of the lucky millions who don't even know any of these deranged arrogant grifters exist. 

Naw, just means my neurons would overload and blow from the BS. 

[Churchhoney]

10 hours ago, heckkitty said:

Naw, just means my neurons would overload and blow from the BS. 

Well, obviously I was trying for Debi Pearl's explanation. And I'm pretty sure she'd never cop to BS!

[GeeGolly]

Of the Duggar girls Jill and Jinger wear pants. Of the Bates girls Whitney, Alyssa, Carlin and Josie wear pants. That leaves Jana, Jessa and Joy, and Michaela, Erin and Tori, still exclusively in dresses.

I wonder what makes the girls adopt their parents' "conviction" to wear dresses and what makes them not.

[Ohiopirate02]

24 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Of the Duggar girls Jill and Jinger wear pants. Of the Bates girls Whitney, Alyssa, Carlin and Josie wear pants. That leaves Jana, Jessa and Joy, and Michaela, Erin and Tori, still exclusively in dresses.

I wonder what makes the girls adopt their parents' "conviction" to wear dresses and what makes them not.

I wear a lot of dresses and skirts and prefer them over pants or jeans most days.  I went to Catholic school as a kid so I grew up wearing a skirt 5 days out of the week.  I am curvy and have a hard time finding pants that fit properly as I always seem to be between sizes in most pants.  Couple that with a long torso, and pants and a top tend to fall weirdly on me.  I can easily throw a dress on and be done getting dressed in seconds.  There are days when I want my thighs separately encased in their own fabric tube, but for the most part I wear either a dress or a skirt every day to work.  If you grow up wearing dresses, they are going to feel more comfortable than pants.

[GeeGolly]

3 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I wear a lot of dresses and skirts and prefer them over pants or jeans most days.  I went to Catholic school as a kid so I grew up wearing a skirt 5 days out of the week.  I am curvy and have a hard time finding pants that fit properly as I always seem to be between sizes in most pants.  Couple that with a long torso, and pants and a top tend to fall weirdly on me.  I can easily throw a dress on and be done getting dressed in seconds.  There are days when I want my thighs separately encased in their own fabric tube, but for the most part I wear either a dress or a skirt every day to work.  If you grow up wearing dresses, they are going to feel more comfortable than pants.

What about when say, Tori and Joy are doing things that really require pants, for both modesty and function? It seems it's more belief based, rather than comfort.

[doodlebug]

11 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I wear a lot of dresses and skirts and prefer them over pants or jeans most days.  I went to Catholic school as a kid so I grew up wearing a skirt 5 days out of the week.  I am curvy and have a hard time finding pants that fit properly as I always seem to be between sizes in most pants.  Couple that with a long torso, and pants and a top tend to fall weirdly on me.  I can easily throw a dress on and be done getting dressed in seconds.  There are days when I want my thighs separately encased in their own fabric tube, but for the most part I wear either a dress or a skirt every day to work.  If you grow up wearing dresses, they are going to feel more comfortable than pants.

I, too, grew up wearing uniforms for Catholic school, always a skirt or jumper.  However, maybe because my mom had 5 girls or because she wasn't much for laundry, I was also taught to change into regular clothing as soon as school was out, so I wore pants, shorts or jeans at home.  I am fine with wearing skirts at work, but pants are more comfortable and practical in most cases although, I too, am bottom heavy with a long torso and short legs; so, if I find a pair of pants I like, I'll get them in every color. One of my sisters was a very large woman and virtually always wore dresses.

In the case of the Duggars, it looks to me like only the married girls really have a choice in the matter, which is why we never see Jana in pants.  Her 'headship' is her father and we know JB won't allow pants.  Unfortunately for Joy, who I think is probably the most 'tomboyish' and would find it easier to maneuver in pants; I think Austin is a lot like JB and she would never defy his wishes.  Same thing for Jessa.  Even though we joke about Bin being henpecked, I think Jessa wouldn't wear pants without his consent and, once again, he seems the JB type.  And, of course, there is always the possibility that Jessa prefers dresses and skirts.

Edited August 12, 2019 by doodlebug

[Ohiopirate02]

12 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

What about when say, Tori and Joy are doing things that really require pants, for both modesty and function? It seems it's more belief based, rather than comfort.

I think if you have never worn pants or shorts before that you don't even realize they would be more practical than a skirt or dress.  Really a knee-length skirt with some movement is really no different than wearing shorts.  They just wear some modesty shorts under the skirt in case they fall like I did under my uniform.  I would never wear a skirt outside to do yard work or to exercise, but I don't have the same religious beliefs.  

Personally, I'm more concerned with Joy's lack of appropriate footwear than her wearing a skirt outside.  Or the Rods' insistence on wearing denim skirts in a pool.   

[GeeGolly]

Below are the pictures that piqued my curiosity. Carlin wearing pants and Tori wearing a skirt in a bumper boat.

[doodlebug]

11 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Below are the pictures that piqued my curiosity. Carlin wearing pants and Tori wearing a skirt in a bumper boat.

Are we sure that's a skirt and not shorts or a skort?

[Jynnan tonnix]

17 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I think if you have never worn pants or shorts before that you don't even realize they would be more practical than a skirt or dress.  Really a knee-length skirt with some movement is really no different than wearing shorts.  They just wear some modesty shorts under the skirt in case they fall like I did under my uniform.  I would never wear a skirt outside to do yard work or to exercise, but I don't have the same religious beliefs.  

Personally, I'm more concerned with Joy's lack of appropriate footwear than her wearing a skirt outside.  Or the Rods' insistence on wearing denim skirts in a pool.   

It's a strange case of semantics, really, when their beliefs state that wearing the clothing that pertaineth to the opposite sex is an abomination, so basically anything which involves each leg being separately clad is forbidden as visible attire, yet they still wear those shorts or leggings under their skirts and dresses, which may prove immodest due to their tendency to allow the legs to show. 

I wear pants most of the time. Palazzo-type (or what I refer to as my "floopy pants) are my favorites as they are so comfortable and seem to be the most flattering to my body type. I do enjoy wearing dresses as well, though, including casual dresses, as I also find the airy, swishy feel comfortable. When we were stationed in Hawaii, I dressed pretty much exclusively in the long, Hawaiian-print dresses so ubiquitous there. They were just so easy to throw over in the morning, and felt cool despite being mostly full-length. Not the frilly muumuu sort of confections, but just a plain sort of sheath. I still have them all, but can never quite bring myself to wear them out and about in Connecticut. 

[DkNNy79]

For their lifestyle and what they're "allowed" to do I guess they can get by with wearing skirts/dresses.  Although I don't get how you're supposed to get on the floor and play with your kids in a skirt/dress.

I have always enjoyed athletics/working out, sometimes more out of necessity (I eat too much) then for pure enjoyment and I can't imagine playing sports/exercising in a dress/skirt.  Also, in the summertime the thigh sweat bugs the crap out of me when wearing dresses/skirts.

[Minivanessa]

IMO the clothing is literally just surface stuff that seems to be evolving as time goes by and new generations of fundies grow up. Based on what I've observed and read, none of the Bates or Duggar kidults who've changed their mode of dress, have "broken away" from their essential fundamentalist belief system. 

Bill Gothard is in the rear view mirror, it's no longer the 1980's or 1990's, new trends are on the scene, and new people. But the same old authoritarian fear-based belief system is solidly in place. Even if denim skirts are not the first choice of the younger generations who have the money to spend on new clothes - and social media accounts on which to share their selfies. 

Yes, Jinger's out in LA wearing normal looking fashions, and Jilly Muffin in her own klunky way has adopted a nose stud and wears jeans. But nothing indicates they've changed anything fundamental about their beliefs, except that they each have a new headship and are no longer part of Jim Bob's traveling kid troupe. 

It can be interesting to talk about how the surface of their lives have changed, I suppose. But in the long run it's as meaningless as speculating that any of the Bates or Duggar kids will "escape," i.e., leave the fundamentalist Christian world. Which IMO won't happen. Might as well devote bandwidth to discussing when Madonna will join the Latter Day Saints. As @Churchhoney and others have said, much better than I could, for the Duggs and I think the Bateses, the money's too good and so is the prestige. They may no longer live in the TTH or be at JB's daily beck and call, but that's not "escape" from the belief system they live in.

Edited August 12, 2019 by Jeeves

[DkNNy79]

8 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

IMO the clothing is literally just surface stuff that seems to be evolving as time goes by and new generations of fundies grow up. Based on what I've observed and read, none of the Bates or Duggar kidults who've changed their mode of dress, have "broken away" from their essential fundamentalist belief system. 

Bill Gothard is in the rear view mirror, it's no longer the 1980's or 1990's, new trends are on the scene, and new people. But the same old authoritarian fear-based belief system is solidly in place. Even if denim skirts are not the first choice of the younger generations who have the money to spend on new clothes and social media accounts on which to share their selfies. 

Yes, Jinger's out in LA wearing normal looking fashions, and Jilly Muffin in her own klunky way has adopted a nose stud and wears jeans. But nothing indicates they've changed anything fundamental about their beliefs, except that they each have a new headship and are no longer part of Jim Bob's traveling kid troupe. 

It can be interesting to talk about how the surface of their lives have changed, I suppose. But in the long run it's as meaningless as speculating that any of the Bates or Duggar kids will "escape," i.e., leave the fundamentalist Christian world. Which IMO won't happen. Might as well devote bandwidth to discussing when Madonna will join the Latter Day Saints. As @Churchhoney and others have said, much better than I could, for the Duggs and I think the Bateses, the money's too good and so is the prestige. They may no longer live in the TTH or be at JB's daily beck and call, but that's not "escape" from the belief system they live in.

Agree.  Now that they solely make a living off of their reality tv and schilling products on social media, I'm sure some of them might think its better to market themselves as more relatable to reach a broader audience (Conservative Christians who are not Fundy).  The Fundy target audience is limited and probably don't have the financial resources to purchase their products so they have to branch out.

[Ohiopirate02]

What really cracks me up about their belief in regards to wearing the clothing of the opposite sex is the Duggars' and Bates' complete ignorance of historical clothing.  Pants weren't invented for centuries after the events in the New Testament let alone the Old Testament.  From what I have read about the clothing options during biblical times, there was not that much of a difference between men's and women's clothing.  Both sexes were wearing long sheathes of fabric with additional layers on top.  Those layers were what separated the women from the men, not the basic undergarment.  It was all in the finishing and how you accessorized to show your gender--not much has really changed in the last few thousand years.

Even with the idea that a woman should not wear pants because that is "men's attire,"  why is okay for woman to wear t-shirts or polo shirts?  Those originally were "men's attire" but are now somehow different.  

[3 is enough]

I have to wonder if Tori has not jumped on the jeans bandwagon like Alyssa, Josie, and Carlin because she has a different body type and just doesn't want to draw attention to the fact that she isn't as tiny as her sisters.  All of the Bates sisters do seem to be very invested in their appearance.

As far as skirts go, I live in the desert and I pretty much live in skorts from April-October. I do not find they hinder my movements and I have old ones I wear for yardwork and messy chores. I have no opposition to pants and shorts, it's just a personal preference.  

[DkNNy79]

51 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

I have to wonder if Tori has not jumped on the jeans bandwagon like Alyssa, Josie, and Carlin because she has a different body type and just doesn't want to draw attention to the fact that she isn't as tiny as her sisters.  All of the Bates sisters do seem to be very invested in their appearance.

As far as skirts go, I live in the desert and I pretty much live in skorts from April-October. I do not find they hinder my movements and I have old ones I wear for yardwork and messy chores. I have no opposition to pants and shorts, it's just a personal preference.  

I love skorts - skirts with shorts underneath right?

[GeeGolly]

The question wasn't really about beliefs. I was just curious why some opted for pants and others didn't. 

Did they have conversations with their parents, or each other about pants verses dresses? Did they, or do they, secretly think wearing only dresses is silly?

And are the ones still wearing dresses doing it for Fundy reasons, habit or preference?

Kind of like I always break dry pasta in half before boiling. I thought everyone did. I still break it, for no other reason than being taught to do so.

[farmgal4]

6 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Of the Duggar girls Jill and Jinger wear pants. Of the Bates girls Whitney, Alyssa, Carlin and Josie wear pants. That leaves Jana, Jessa and Joy, and Michaela, Erin and Tori, still exclusively in dresses.

I wonder what makes the girls adopt their parents' "conviction" to wear dresses and what makes them not.

Less Kool-Aid?

[PikaScrewChu]

Jana is still at home and I'm doubtful JB and Meech would be happy if she decided to start wearing jeans on the regular. Might be a bad influence on the Lost Girls. I figure Jessa wears them as a part of the "brand" and Joy wears skirts and dresses because her headship prefers them.

Michaela and Erin are saturated in the IBLP Kool-Aid. Those two are never going to deviate from that. Tori, who knows. I haven't seen much of her to form an opinion on her. She has been overshadowed by Josie and Carlin (although she might be relieved).

[3 is enough]

@DkNNy79, that is correct! 

I am not fond of shorts- the longer ones look awkward on me because I am short, and at my age I just don't feel comfortable wearing short shorts.  This is the most comfortable option for me, and I never have to worry about flashing anyone. 

[sondraK]

Erin is just way too prissy and wouldn't be caught dead in pants,imo

I think skorts are basically shaped like a skirt,only loose w a section sewed up the middle like shorts?

[louannems]

23 minutes ago, sondraK said:

Erin is just way too prissy and wouldn't be caught dead in pants,imo

I think skorts are basically shaped like a skirt,only loose w a section sewed up the middle like shorts?

What you are describing sounds to me like culottes.  A skort is a skirt, usually a fairly short skirt, with built in shorts hiding beneath.

I think skorts look sporty but I tried one on , once , and I felt like I was wearing a diaper under my skirt!

[Absolom]

On 8/12/2019 at 2:05 PM, louannems said:

What you are describing sounds to me like culottes.  A skort is a skirt, usually a fairly short skirt, with built in shorts hiding beneath.

Skort is used to describe two types of shorts/skirt combo.  One is a skirt with shorts under it and the other is a pair of shorts that have a skirt panel in the front, but look like shorts from the back.  

The shorts/skirt combo can also be called a skating skirt if the skirt itself is more full and less of a pencil or a-line skirt.  

Edited August 13, 2019 by Absolom

[Sew Sumi]

Katie Bates is officially courting Travis Clark. She just turned 18.

[galaxychaser]

Ma and Pa Duggar will have a fit if the Rodrigues move to Arkansas much less become next door neighborinoes. 

[Zella]

1 minute ago, galaxychaser said:

Ma and Pa Duggar will have a fit if the Rodrigues move to Arkansas much less become next door neighborinoes. 

This is hilarious!

Except I don't want them in Arkansas, either, so I guess that's something the Duggars and I actually have in common. LOL 

[3 is enough]

6 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Katie Bates is officially courting Travis Clark. She just turned 18.

Gotta get them all married off ASAP.  I had a feeling something was up when she got an Instagram account.

[Sew Sumi]

They already look quite cozy. I predict a short courtship/engagement.

[3 is enough]

1 minute ago, Sew Sumi said:

They already look quite cozy. I predict a short courtship/engagement.

And jeans on the way to the honeymoon. 🙄

[Lunera]

17 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

They already look quite cozy. I predict a short courtship/engagement.

And a baby on their 9th monthiversary.

[Lunera]

He's also 18. Just graduated high school in May.

They look like tweens on their 1st date.

[McManda]

10 minutes ago, Lunera said:

He's also 18. Just graduated high school in May.

They look like tweens on their 1st date.

I mean, aren't they?

[Sew Sumi]

23 minutes ago, Lunera said:

He's also 18. Just graduated high school in May.

They look like tweens on their 1st date.

On his graduation pic, he thanked his family for the 13 years. I figured he got one of those worthless one-year bible "degrees" from Clown College.

He sings with his family, but I don't see any gainful employment. Gil may well drag this one out like he did with Carlin. 

[BitterApple]

Katie is gorgeous. She could do way better than this unemployed dweeb. These girls are really selling themselves short in their rush to get to the altar. 

[awaken]

2 hours ago, galaxychaser said:

Ma and Pa Duggar will have a fit if the Rodrigues move to Arkansas much less become next door neighborinoes. 

Now that would be an entertaining turn of events!  Just imagine the hilarity if the Rodriguii were frequently interfacing with the Duggars!

katie looks just like Carlin with blond hair. Similar to Erin. Can’t say I’ve ever seen her before!  Same trajectory as all the others!  Has she even gone to Clown or cosmetology school?  Or getting married straight from schooling at home?

[3 is enough]

Wasn't Katie taking a nursing course?  Or am I getting mixed up with Michaela? Too many sisters to keep track of...

But I wonder if part of the reason they get married so young is so they can experience some independence.  Also, they may not all enjoy living with so many siblings.  Alyssa did not enjoy the circus, and Josie got a small apartment specifically to discourage visitors, IIRC.

Of course then they have honeymoon babies and they revert back to the brand.  

Edited August 13, 2019 by 3 is enough

[awaken]

2 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

Wasn't Katie taking a nursing course?  Or am I getting mixed up with Michaela? Too many sisters to keep track of...

I hope so!  It would be great if she actually had some outside education and exposure to the world outside of home, however limited!  

[Sew Sumi]

Katie is doing cosmetology at Clown. Michael will start nursing school (a real one from the looks of it) in this upcoming fall semester.

[awaken]

Of course she’s doing cosmetology at Clown 🙄 at least it gets her out of the house, soft of.  

[65mickey]

Katie seems to hang out with Alyssa and Josie. I would hope that they have influenced her to find a guy with a job that has a decent earning potential. Even Tori's husband has given up the church route for an apprenticeship with Kelton's family plumbing business. Unless she wants to put herself in Jessa's situation with a husband who is undereducated and unskilled and works for his father in law doing who knows what. 

[Rabbittron]

15 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Kind of like I always break dry pasta in half before boiling. I thought everyone did. I still break it, for no other reason than being taught to do so.

I do this also.  I thought that I was the only person to do this. 

[Jynnan tonnix]

2 hours ago, Rabbittron said:

I do this also.  I thought that I was the only person to do this. 

I thought it was common practice. I do it as well, though I know that mostly Italian food purists frown on it. To me, it just makes it easier to eat when the spaghetti is more limited on how big a ball it can twine itself into on your fork. But I'm Polish, not Italian, so what do I know?

[Churchhoney]

9 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Katie is gorgeous. She could do way better than this unemployed dweeb. These girls are really selling themselves short in their rush to get to the altar. 

In their cult, there's no such thing as a woman selling herself short, is there? 

[Barb23]

11 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

On his graduation pic, he thanked his family for the 13 years. I figured he got one of those worthless one-year bible "degrees" from Clown College.

He sings with his family, but I don't see any gainful employment. Gil may well drag this one out like he did with Carlin. 

I wouldn't give him that much credit re: going to Clown College already. He was probably including kindergarten in his years of education.  

[madpsych78]

On 8/12/2019 at 7:32 AM, GeeGolly said:

Of the Duggar girls Jill and Jinger wear pants. Of the Bates girls Whitney, Alyssa, Carlin and Josie wear pants. That leaves Jana, Jessa and Joy, and Michaela, Erin and Tori, still exclusively in dresses.

I wonder what makes the girls adopt their parents' "conviction" to wear dresses and what makes them not.

I can't speak for the Bateses, but I think Jill and Jinger wear pants because it is acceptable to their headships. Derick and Jeremy's mothers both wore pants. And I totally agree with the poster that Jessa only wears dresses for the brand. I believe she wears pants in the privacy of her own home. And, Guinn initially was wearing dresses when Jess and Ben were first courting, but she's worn pants since. 

Joy doesn't seem to have strong convictions about wearing dresses or skirts vs. pants, so again, she's doing what her headship prefers. 

I think the ones who are most convicted to wear skirts are actually the Duggar daughter-in-laws (except for Abbie), more so than the daughters.

ETA: Still, it is interesting that Jill of all people opted to wear pants. With some of the others (Jinger, Alyssa, Josie, Carlin) you could tell that they were going to go in that direction before they got hitched and it was all a matter of time. I didn't get the same vibe with Jill. 

Edited August 13, 2019 by madpsych78

[3 is enough]

Funny how the Bates girls seem to be in a rush to get married as soon as they turn 18, yet of the boys only Zach is married.  Not that waiting is a bad thing, especially with their lack of formal education and limited job prospects.  But there does seem to be a bit of a double standard.

Why is it acceptable for the boys to wait until they can support a family, but there is no objection to the girls marrying 18 year old boys who may not be ready to support the inevitable honeymoon babies and subsequent children?

[Churchhoney]

4 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

Why is it acceptable for the boys to wait until they can support a family, but there is no objection to the girls marrying 18 year old boys who may not be ready to support the inevitable honeymoon babies and subsequent children?

In the backs of their stupid minds, I think the whole evolutionary biology of the thing unconsciously plays a big role. 

It's all about our genes being machines highly programmed to reproduce the genes. Males can do the reproducing for decades and decades -- so what the babies mostly need from them is the food and roof-over-head and other stuff they can help provide -- so they might as well spend some early able-bodied years building up some cash. 

The women, on the other hand, have a relatively few good reproducing years available. And the earliest ones are generally the most fertile. 

Ergo -- these big big super-Christians are entirely ruled by their biological natures. 

[DangerousMinds]

35 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

In the backs of their stupid minds, I think the whole evolutionary biology of the thing unconsciously plays a big role. 

It's all about our genes being machines highly programmed to reproduce the genes. Males can do the reproducing for decades and decades -- so what the babies mostly need from them is the food and roof-over-head and other stuff they can help provide -- so they might as well spend some early able-bodied years building up some cash. 

The women, on the other hand, have a relatively few good reproducing years available. And the earliest ones are generally the most fertile. 

Ergo -- these big big super-Christians are entirely ruled by their biological natures. 

But then shouldn’t the very young women be marrying men a bit older, who have had time to save some money and get a roof to put over their heads?

[Churchhoney]

4 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

But then shouldn’t the very young women be marrying men a bit older, who have had time to save some money and get a roof to put over their heads?

Yeah. True. Most of 'em do marry somebody just a bit older, though, don't they? Seems to me this 18-year-old guy is at least a bit of an aberration?

[Temperance]

16 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Katie Bates is officially courting Travis Clark. She just turned 18.

She turned 18 last October and will be 19 this October. 

It should be noted that as of yet all of the Duggar/Bates brides and grooms were at least 19 at the wedding including Josie Bates, Alyssa Bates, and Kendra Caldwell, Lauren Swanson, Ben Seewald and Joy Duggar. Everyone else was older. 

The Bates marry their girls young to take their options and make sure they do nothing but have kids for Jesus.