S05.E13: Forget

[chlban]

Not talking about here. There are people that stopped watching the show because of the horse being eaten in Atlanta. People rage over animal violence all the time. Elsewhere in the world, you know it will happen.

Weil I am a major animal lover with a houseful of  rescues to prove it and if they a really harmed a horse or really shot and eaten dogs. you can bet I would quit  the show and raise hell. However, luckily, I understand this is a TV show. I don't enjoy any scene that shows violence to animals. But then  I am probably in the minority in that I hate the head stomping and brain exploding scenes too. I just remind myself they aren't real.

[bosawks]

That kid looked kind of squirrely, Carol should've recruited the little bastard instead.

 

The relationship with Jessie and hubby seemed a bit off somehow.  If they really do make him Ed Redux to justify Rick's interest that will be............tedious.

[Madding crowd]

While CDB has a lot of skills to teach ASZ, Deanna's group has survived and thrived for two years, while Rick's group has lost a huge amount of people, almost starved to death, and became feral. So they have things to teach each other. I'm sure at some point, bad guys will show up or walker hordes will appear, but these people have actually survived just fine with out RIck's presence.

TBTB are overdoing it in every way with Carol. We are supposed to believe Carol is so much smarter than a Congresswoman who is running an entire community, that she believes Carol 's dream in life is to bake cookies and be in the Junior League. And Carol's threat to that child was not badassery, it was terrible. Maybe that kid shouldn't have followed her, but maybe kids are just allowed to roam around,and Carol could have had a backup. If Carol had just talked about cookies, that kid would have forgot what he saw in a few minutes. Kids don't pay close attention to things adults do, unless they are terrified. I would expect him to run home screaming, but on TV no one ever tells anyone important information.

I do wonder about the "A" stamp and about Aaron and his attention to Daryl. I would find it creepy to be stamped with some seal of approval, plus it goes back to the "A" car in Terminus, plus the W carved in the walkers head. I think Aaron, much like Deanna, is too pushy and Stepfordish in how they approach the new people. They are trying to sell themselves too much. I understand the theory that they are scared and need Rick and his people. But, they have survived and done much better for themselves than Rick's group. We know that Rick and group are needed when the big bad comes, but to ASZ they are just people who haven't figured out how to get food and beer.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Madding crowd

[stretch]

I was certain that Rick was going to get roofied at that party. Their insistence that he drink seemed odd, and then Peter (who is definitely giving off abusive/controlling vibes) taking Rick's glass to be refilled and curtly shutting Jessie down when she offered to do it contributed to the vaguely threatening air of the whole party. Of course, that's probably just the writers being...well, the writers.

[Timetoread]

The MVP for me tonight was Sasha -  her reaction was the most appropos for the situation CDB finds themselves in.  Clearly she has PTSD and the truth is that they all do but hers is the freshest and she hasn't yet repackaged it into some other purpose/persona.  I did have a moment when Deanna's tall and handsome first born was making eyes at her, although I half expected her to push him and scream "You're not Bob!" and run away crying.  I also liked seeing the group interact with others, like Abe and Michonne.  That was cool.  Total side note, the actress playing Rosita is gorgeous!

 

I do wonder what is happening with Daryl and Aaron.  I really hope it is not turning into a gay storyline for Daryl, not because I'm anti-gay but because I hate the triteness of having a gay character who bonds with Daryl to hook up.  I kind of like Aaron - he seems to be somebody who really GETS why CDB is struggling in Mayberry and he sees the man behind Daryl's gruffness.  I don't want them to be boyfriends, I want them to be friends.  Also, Aaron can really handle himself so my guess is that he's spend a lot of time outside of the walls and not just scouting.  Also, he is a REALLY handsome guy.  I guess I was feeling shallow watching.

 

Okay so A is related to W.  Here's when you know you spend too much time on message boards, when they showed the walker with the W on his forehead, I exclaimed, "Oh look, the Unfair Wolves are back!"  I was thinking about what Members Only said last week about how they've made a perimeter of 59 miles.  That's about the distance from Alexandria to Richmond.  Were the scouters the zombie mutilators and town destroyers?  Were they the ones who got banished?  Are they the ones who are going to come back and the reason Deanna needed CDB?

 

I just can't with Carol.  I found that schtick with the kid disturbing and unecessary.  I get it that she got caught but if she can't come up with a lie to satisfy a 9 year old, then what good is she?  If that were MY kid she threatened like that - she'd be tied to a tree.  And Carol?  I can shoot too and am pretty darn good with a knife.  I'm not the one. Yes, I am threatening a fictional character.

 

By far the creepiest character for me tonight, however, was Rick.  Who was that dude?  You're putting moves on some chick you just met with her husband in the same room?  Really?  REALLY?  I know it's been a while since little Rick's got a chance to come out an play but this is not the time, OR the woman.  Speaking of, while I passively ship Richonne as endgame, I don't have objections to Rick and Michonne hooking up with other people, so I don't hate Jessie as a threat.  What I hate is the way they are making her ever present as The Potential Love Interest.  Notice that she seems to always end up alone with Rick, even though there are other people, she's married with two kids, he's got two kids and a 14 member "family", but it's always those two with a spotlight in even a crowded room.  The anviliciousness of the whole thing screams set up to me.  As in they could'nt possibly hookup.  If anything he's going to get her killed.  That kiss made me gag.  Too soon, you ask Rick?  Yes, you dolt, too freakin' soon!  Since I commented on looks let me nominate Andy Lincoln for the acting win.  AL is a pretty boy, no doubt, and the stubble has made him believable as a tough guy for several seasons.  I just love that now, clean and clean-shaven with those dreamy blue bedroom eyes disarming all who witness them, he is scaring the hell out of me.  He looks like a caged predator.  He's just not right.  I feel like, a la Walter White, Rick IS the danger.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Timetoread

[kj4ever]

I didn't get a grooming vibe from Aaron.  I think he is very smart, and with his partner out of commission he wanted the best with him when he's out there.  If I had to pick someone to watch my ass it would definitely be Daryl.  Yeah, Carol is scary, but she's not exactly that great when it comes to fighting people that aren't unconscious. 

 

And I don't think the food or motorcycle is what got to Daryl.  I think it's the fact that he can get the hell out of dodge and be in the wild every once in awhile, just like Aaron said.  Maybe Aaron was going to be a professional poker player too.

 

Oh, and I liked Deanna's hubby.

[rhygirl720]

first time poster-long time reader...

Buttons was clearly a metaphor. Considering his fate...ominous. Also it takes a wild thing to tame a wild thing. Aaron has been watching our group for a long time. He knew what buttons to push to get Darryl  tamed.

[Iboatedhere]

That was the most awkward hour of television I've ever seen. Everything everyone said and did made me uncomfortable.

 

What happened to Buttons was heartbreaking. I lost one of my horses almost a year ago in a very traumatic and unexpected way so when he was on the ground with walkers all around him but was still trying to get up.....ugh. That sucked.

 

But, I know this is a TV show so I'll say that horse could really act. Very well trained.

 

Evil or not, Alexandria is where I would need to be. Cocktail parties, chocolate, book clubs, showers. My kind of place. I would go evil for it. I'd probably go cannibal for it.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Iboatedhere

[Wessex]

I just can't with Carol.  I found that schtick with the kid disturbing and unecessary.  I get it that she got caught but if she can't come up with a lie to satisfy a 9 year old, then what good is she?  If that were MY kid she threatened like that - she'd be tied to a tree.  And Carol?  I can shoot too and am pretty darn good with a knife.  I'm not the one. Yes, I am threatening a fictional character.

 

 

I felt this way at the beginning, but upon reflection I see it could only be handled that way.   First, Carol was an abused wife.  She took it and took it and took it from Ed because she was trying to protect her daughter.  Her daughter is dead, Ed is dead, and she is realizing -- like so many abuse victims -- that she wasted her life trying to appease her abuser.  She is now mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore.  And an abuse survivor is the ultimate survivor.  Carol's skills at surviving an abusive marriage are translating well in the post-ZA world.

 

She realizes there is something "off" about this place.  She realizes that if the nosy kid mentions that she was in a place she wasn't supposed to be, it could mean big trouble for her and the group.  She can't be sure that the nosy "innocent" kid isn't really a spy who has been trained to report back to the grownups.  He probably would mention that he saw her even if she gave him a story, so decides to terrify him into silence.   I get that.   I think it's smart.   

 

As far as Daryl goes, I think he is suspicious of the too-friendly, too-pushy Aaron and decides to join forces with him to see what he's up to.

[HolmesUltimateQu]

No, Hava, I feel the same way.  If they want to build a happy, functional society, I see nothing wrong with them being (seemingly) happy and functional because they are succeeding at their goal.  Wanting a pasta maker isn't just a pie-in-the-sky dream that only a clueless idiot could ever have in this terrible, awful world.  It would give them a way to make a large amount of food that feeds a lot of people at very little cost.  It means people wouldn't have to drive 50+ miles away to get more boxes of old, stale pasta.  And if they have been living in Alexandria for 2 years, then it's perfectly normal and natural to want to have some variety when it comes to food. Yes, out in the walker world people eat bugs and rats and roots, but that is only because they have to.  In Alexandria, not having to eat those things is kind of the point.  They are trying to live normal lives that are not based on being afraid every moment.  Part of being normal is the natural human desire to enjoy oneself.  It's instinct to want to survive, but when you are living in a world where your survival isn't threatened at all times, a person will eventually start to think about having things that comfort them and make their days better.  A cocktail party to help socialize the newcomers with the existing citizens sounds like a pretty good idea to me.  Sorry that Sasha has PTSD, but that doesn't mean no one else should be allowed to enjoy getting together under friendly circumstances.

 

It pisses me off that "our" people are only in town for 5 minutes and they're already making such an unprovoked mess out of everything. 

 

After Carol walked off the porch from talking to the group of women and she started talking to Rick about their plans to steal the guns, I thought, "wow... if these people are exactly how they seem (and it's not a ruse), Rick and Carol are creating a lot of drama for themselves..." but then I thought that maybe they're at the point where they can't live if there isn't some kind of underhanded, hidden drama.

[seacliffsal]

My suspicions about Alexandria start with Deanna.  So what if she was a member of the House of Representatives?  So were 434 other people.  I think she's lying about that and I don't trust one word out of her mouth.  I find it very interesting that she is the leader of the suburb.  Did they elect her or did she take it?  Then her anger when Sasha said it wasn't real.  People seem to accept what she is saying as the truth and I think that is their first and biggest mistake.  It seems fairly obvious that her husband isn't an architect (supports on the outside?) which makes me doubt her even more.

 

I'm also suspicious about the fact that there aren't babies in the community.  There are several women of child bearing age (and men) and with their whole 'we're creating a new society' it seems they should be having/raising babies.  Add that to how very interested everyone is with Judith and it is very suspicious.  In my heart I do want Aaron to be a good guy, but his talkativeness when he first found our group along with his following and watching Daryl makes me very uneasy.  He seems to really know what's going on and yet Deanna is seemingly in charge.  As for Jessie?  I was suspicious the moment she knocked on Rick's door.  Deanna specifically said that nobody would bother them and then there's Jessie almost immediately at the door.  Jessie also sought Rick out at the party and it's her son who put an A on Rick (if I were Rick I would have gone over the edge right then and there as Terminus had previously sent him to the A car-the letter A would be too close to a death sentence).  Also, Jessie's story about her husband as an art major and then becoming a doctor?  I know medical schools like students to come from a liberal arts background, but unless he was a biology minor or something that seems like quite a stretch.  Oh well, at least now he won't be burdened by his student loans....

 

Everything is just too weird in Alexandria and none of the residents seem trustworthy at all.

 

Loved Carol this episode.  Loved her 'talk' with the boy.  I hated that Daryl didn't take a gun and seems to be distancing himself from Rick.  Rick hasn't abandoned him and in fact is showing his respect and trusty of Daryl through the fact that only Carol and Daryl are a part of Rick's overall plan.  Maybe Daryl is going into deep cover and is actually spying on Aaron?

 

Overall I'm enjoying these episodes, but I think there is way more to Alexandria than we are being shown.

[islandgal140]

This episode was brought to you by the letter "A." Or is that "W?" Or is it "M?"

 

Rick's possible descent is compelling. Liked the end of the episode, especially that he was on Morgan Street.

 

Speaking of which, where the hell is Morgan?!?! We have only 3 episodes left in the season. If this show pulls that shit of showing Morgan in the last 30 seconds of the season finale looking at letters carved in trees I'm gonna have a rage stroke!

 

 

I kind of felt like Aaron was "grooming" Daryl.  I'm not saying for nefarious reason because I can't get a read on the guy.  Hell, maybe pre-ZA he was some sort of counselor/therapist.  But it all just felt off.  I'm not down with trusting the guy just yet.  Or anyone of the ASZers for that matter.

 

 

Loved seeing Daryl make a new friend.  I like Aaron and have a good feeling about him.  It was interesting how Aaron still feels like a bit of an outsider because of his sexual orientation, and very realistic I think.  Even with all the time that Rick and Co. have spent with Daryl I still don't think any of them have a clue what that feels like - to feel completely alienated by society.  I didn't take Daryl not taking the gun as not believing in Rick.  I took it as they had all been asking him to give it a chance (both Carol and Rick) and he decided to do just that.

 

I really want to trust Aaron too because I am starting to like him which is quite the turnaround, given I cheered when Rick knocked his ass out a few episodes back. There is just something slightly creepy about him that hovers around the edges. I do love what he had to say about being the outsider. What rang particularly true is him saying how people can be so casually offensive and even more so while under stress or during a crises. I find that to be amazingly true.

 

However, I have to say that Aaron being with Eric  makes me want to like him all the more. Eric is such a special ball of sunshine. I mean he is what a smiley face sticker looks at after it has had a bad day.  

 

I really don't see how the Alexandrians have made it as far as they have. How is it they have no livestock? Not even a damn chicken for eggs? Pigs? Nothing? Are they even farming and growing their own veggies? Have they been getting everything they eat on runs? That doesn't seem sustainable. 

Edited March 9, 2015 by islandgal140

[ghoulina]

TBTB are overdoing it in every way with Carol. We are supposed to believe Carol is so much smarter than a Congresswoman who is running an entire community, that she believes Carol 's dream in life is to bake cookies and be in the Junior League. And Carol's threat to that child was not badassery, it was terrible. Maybe that kid shouldn't have followed her, but maybe kids are just allowed to roam around,and Carol could have had a backup. If Carol had just talked about cookies, that kid would have forgot what he saw in a few minutes. Kids don't pay close attention to things adults do, unless they are terrified. I would expect him to run home screaming, but on TV no one ever tells anyone important information.

 

That's a good point. I really thought she should have just abandoned the mission entirely at that point. She could have tried to make it seem very casual, "Oh, I came in here to get more ingredients for cookies and stopped to look at the guns for a minute. There's just so many, they're kind of cool. But yea, I am about to make another batch. Do you want to help me. Come one back into the pantry, and let's pick out the ingredients". 

 

She could have taken him back to her house and spend the night making cookies and making him laugh, and he may have mostly forgotten about how they wound up together. If he DID tell another adult, she could have played it off same as she did with him. If he gave an incriminating detail she could have brushed it off as being dark and kids having wild imaginations. She could have said she slipped in because she's just so used to having to do that on the outside. 

 

I don't know, I agree that it was OOC for Carol and I think there are several other ways it could have been handled. 

 

Buttons was clearly a metaphor. Considering his fate...ominous.

 

I thought the same thing. But then, I thought after the porch conversation last season Daryl was going to die and he didn't. So Daryl is apparently a cat, and has 9 foreshadowing lives. 

[morgankobi]

Even though I was pretty sure A-A-Ron was following Daryl (aww, Daryl is his rabbit), I knew I was starting to trust him when he took Daryl into the garage to show him the motorcycle. I really though A-A-Ron was about to tell Daryl he was going to need it to get the hell out of dodge when the ASZhats started to show their true colors.

[Primetimer]

Rick's gang is already restless, wary, and even horny in paradise.

Read the story

[ghoulina]

After Carol walked off the porch from talking to the group of women and she started talking to Rick about their plans to steal the guns, I thought, "wow... if these people are exactly how they seem (and it's not a ruse), Rick and Carol are creating a lot of drama for themselves..." but then I thought that maybe they're at the point where they can't live if there isn't some kind of underhanded, hidden drama.

I do think a lot of them, most notably Sasha and Daryl, are having a very hard time adjusting to life just being peaceful and normal behind these gates. I think some of them don't know how to function if they're not on the defensive and taking down walkers. It's just become so rote for them.

But I don't think the stockpiling extra guns thing is necessarily about ASZ being a ruse. I think it's just more about being protected from anything - inside or outside. But more likely outside. Rick and Sasha were incredulous that there was no one constantly in the watchtower. Rick noticed how easy the outside braces would be for a person to scale. The gang is immediately noticing ways this safe haven can be penetrated and I just think they want to have their bases covered for what they see as the inevitable - some big, bad coming down on them from outside the walls.

As for Jessie?  I was suspicious the moment she knocked on Rick's door.  Deanna specifically said that nobody would bother them and then there's Jessie almost immediately at the door.

That really stood out to me as well. And maybe not in a malicious way. But for all those who saw Rick as the aggressor, with his predatory kiss - I couldn't see it that way, because Jessie came to him first. A haircut is a very intimate act, and did she go around offering others from the group haircuts? Daryl certainly needs one. Glenn and Carl too. Noah might like a little off the top. What about the girls? I'm not sure if it's just her, on her own, having a bad relationship with her husband and seeing something she likes. But I don't think that Jessie was upset or offended by Rick's cheek kiss. I also entertained the idea that Deanna specifically sent her to kind of flirt a bit with Rick and get close to him, keep tabs on him. Again, not necessarily malicious, but just as a safety measure. As a way of trying to get a better feel for who these people are and what they're about.

Speaking of which, where the hell is Morgan?!?! We have only 3 episodes left in the season. If this show pulls that shit of showing Morgan in the last 30 seconds of the season finale looking at letters carved in trees I'm gonna have a rage stroke!

Pretty sure that's what they're going to do. Grrrrr. Pull out the fainting couches.

I really don't see how the Alexandrians have made it as far as they have. How is it they have no livestock? Not even a damn chicken for eggs? Pigs? Nothing? Are they even farming and growing their own veggies? Have they been getting everything they eat on runs? That doesn't seem sustainable.

We know they have apple trees, but that's about the only mention of any sustainable food source I've heard. I hope they have more and we just haven't heard about it yet. But I think we can be fairly certain they don't have livestock, given the food pantry chick's request for a boar leg. Honestly, that should have been priority one after making the community safe with the walls and whatnot. Damn, CDB was only at the prison six months when they had pigs and a pretty decent garden going.

[mandolin]

A random thought I haven't seen mentioned - I thought Maggie's choice of clothes was weird. We know what she dressed like on the farm, and Alexandria apparently has huge closets. I don't see that being "her" at all.

 

I enjoyed the episode overall. The interactions between our people and the new people. I do wish the show would sometimes just tell us what's real and what isn't. It's almost like they are trying too hard to make us wonder if this place is on the up-and-up or not. I get they are making us suffer along with CDB, it just feels a bit tedious.

[islandgal140]

I think I could tolerate the Rick/Jessie stuff despite my disappointment at the writers not going there with Rick/Michonne if Jessie weren't married.  I just don't have interest in that triangle.   I suppose the writers think it's interesting to have a redux of Rick/Lori/Shane with Rick as Shane, but I'm iffy about it.   I suppose it could be an exploration of how much Rick has changed to the point where he's more like Shane than the Rick he was in Season 1 but  I just have a low tolerance for triangles.  It's one of the most lazy tropes.   How much of a Shane Rick is, is something that can be explored without a stupid triangle. 

 

 

I am all for Rick bumping uglies. As has been mentioned many times by many others there just hasn't been enough sexy times during the zombie apocalypse. However, like you I hate the fact that she is married, which spells triangle, which I hate even more. This ain't Days of Our Lives. Also, I smell another albatross. I am not saying that every woman Rick is with needs to be a bad ass like Michonne or Carol but she at least needs to be able to kill walker or man. Jessie just seems so damn sheltered and clueless to me right now. If this was just a slap and tickle one-nighter I wouldn't care, but if Rick is going to be in a serious relationship with any woman I think they need to be asked the 3 questions.

 

Q1: "How many walkers have you killed."

Q2: "How many people have you killed?" 

Q3: "Why?"

 

I know this probably isn't realistic. Rick is thinking with his peen and wanting some semblance of the life he had before but times have change and ain't no one got time to be constantly rescuing damsels in distress. Also, I don't want Rick to be in a situation where the 1st time he has to kill a person to protect her, she gets all in a huff and ridiculous talking about 'I can't be with someone like you' like Abe's wife only to leave and be eaten down to bones not 50 feet away from the door she exited. I have to admit I LMAO at that.

 

. 

Edited March 9, 2015 by islandgal140

[Helena Dax]

I think it's interesting that Daryl has bonded with Carol and Aaron.  Victims of patriarchy?

 

When Rick was looking at Pete and Jessie I think he was realizing that he could kill that guy and keep the woman. Who  could stop him? But Jesse's so bland it hurts.

 

I agree  that building a civilization is very important, but what Alexandria is about is denial. Where are the fields? Where are the cows, the chicken, the pigs?

[NorthstarATL]

 

If I had to pick someone to watch my ass it would definitely be Daryl.

If that could only be an Aaron quote!

 

While CDB has a lot of skills to teach ASZ, Deanna's group has survived and thrived for two years, while Rick's group has lost a huge amount of people, almost starved to death, and became feral. So they have things to teach each other. I'm sure at some point, bad guys will show up or walker hordes will appear, but these people have actually survived just fine with out RIck's presence.

On the surface it seems that a lot of the ASZ's survival is based upon luck. And location. They have had a safe space of refuge that hasn't been subject to invasion yet. However, I am assuming that the Alexandrians are holding back as much of THEIR history as our group is. What DO they know about what causes the turning? Have they had anyone die within the walls (it seems unlikely that they wouldn't have), and what have they done at that point? Who was exiled and why? That sort of stuff. Plus, where was Deanna's other son from last week at the party? What became of him after their "talk"? How many sons does she have? We don't really know as much as we should.

Edited March 9, 2015 by NorthstarATL

[Constantinople]

Would Daryl replace Eric so that Aaron & Daryl would be a recruiting team?  Or would Daryl go on recruiting missions solo?

 

Daryl would do well surviving "out there".  I'm not sure how well he would do recruiting total strangers.  He might, as Aaron suggested, be able to distinguish between good and bad people, but the good people might still be put off by Daryl.  Plus, Daryl isn't exactly Mr. Outgoing around new people.

[AndySmith]

Shasah, stop wasting so many damn bullets!

 

Rick, maybe it's not a good idea to have a "secret" meeting with Carol and Daryl in a spot where someone already say you hiding something?

 

Someone named…"Morgan"?

 

Oh God, I hope not.

 

I kind of wish they hadn't mercy-killed Buttons, if only to possibly have a Zombie...er, Walker horse running around (is the virus only for humans?).

 

Michone putting the sword on the wall was so symbolic. Even nore symbolic will be the scene where she has to take it back down.

 

Have people already started shipping Aaryl or Daaron or whatever dumb name shippers give couples?

 

Rosita cleans up nicely.

 

Deanna and the Alexandria people have nice ideas, but just so clueless and naive. I have a feeling they are going to learn a Very Special Lesson about how brutal life can be in new order. Of course, haven't Rick and others told them yet about all the killers, rapists, and cannibels they've encountered outside? Instead of throwing out generalizations about how humans "are the most dangerous" whatever. Tell them about how people ate Bob's leg. Tell them about how Carl was almost raped. Tell them about how the Governer commandeered a tank and stormed their last home.

 

Because Alexandria can work, it just needs a mix of what Deanna can offer but also an equal part of what Rick & Co. can offer as well. It can't be one or the other.

Edited March 9, 2015 by AndySmith

[lulee]

Would Daryl replace Eric so that Aaron & Daryl would be a recruiting team? Or would Daryl go on recruiting missions solo?

Daryl would do well surviving "out there". I'm not sure how well he would do recruiting total strangers. He might, as Aaron suggested, be able to distinguish between good and bad people, but the good people might still be put off by Daryl. Plus, Daryl isn't exactly Mr. Outgoing around new people.

he said "with me" I think. I imagine that Aaron would still be the lead, just as he was with CDB where Eric was back with the RV.

[RustbeltWriter]

This storyline is interesting because it shows the flaws in each group and in Deanna's attempt to integrate them. Aaron is clearly able to make it on the outside and his judgement of Rick's group is spot on but Deanna really needs to take things more slowly. You can't take people who were reduced to eating dogs and throw them into a cocktail party. The interviews she conducted were a good start but she really has no idea what they've been through. From the revelations at the CDC to the brutality of Terminus, Deanna clearly doesn't understand how the abundance of companionship, food, shelter and safety will negatively impact these survivors.

 

Of course everyone is acting out of character. Their situation has changed so much, so quickly that the PTSD will overwhelm them and cause them to do things they normally wouldn't. I think if Deanna had a better idea of their history she would have had them camp nearby and brought them in slowly. It's clearly too much all at once.

 

Oh, and being a know-it-all thug who feels entitled to whatever he wants because he's tough and has been through some tough times doesn't look any better on Rick than it did Shane. 

Edited March 9, 2015 by RustbeltWriter

[The Mighty Peanut]

I don't understand Deanna. She wants to create this Utopia and use people who are experienced with what lives beyond the gates to protect said Utopia, but she doesn't want to fortify the gates themselves. If she wants to live the normalcy dream and perpetuate it with uniformed authority figures and yuppie dinner parties I can understand that but if she wants to KEEP it she needs to make that small sacrifice of allowing a little bit of fear to settle when people do realize those gates are their second best protection -- the first best protection being knowledge.

Like...Sasha's boyfriend watching what was meant to be the first chapter of his slow and conscious cannibalization. Maggie watching her father's messy decapitation. Noah's escape from Rape Cop Hospital. The governor's aquarium of undead heads that posed a threat to him alive. The inspirational tale of how Glenn used a walker's own tibia as a shank, untied himself, and went to rescue his girlfriend from sexual assault. I hope this shit was brought up in those tapes. :/

[nodorothyparker]

I think there are members of our group, if they were at all honest, who would have trouble answering the three questions.  And they're obviously not going around volunteering that information.  So I'm not sure how much use they really are anymore.  

 

That may be why nobody initially thought to ask Aaron

Edited March 9, 2015 by nodorothyparker

[MrWhyt]

Not at all, she actually explained it in the scene.  Carol told Rick that they're excuse for going outside was to teach Carol how to shoot or to get her more familiar with a gun and that she couldn't go back from target practice with a full clip.  She shot up the Walker as part of their cover story.

Of course the smarter thing to do would be to remove the bullets from the magazine and turn it in empty whilst you pocket the bullets to feed the guns you're going to steal later.

[kj4ever]

Deanna had said it had been quite some time since they saw anyone living or dead and at first i thought was a liar she was, but then I remembered a scene from the prison.  Remember when Carol tells Daryl he can't have the people to do the run and he says something like "the more people we bring in the more walkers show up".  It is 15 more people....15 people who like to shoot guns....Yeah, they are doomed.

 

I'll never understand why they continue to run around shooting things.  Shooting things brought down the farm, destroyed the prison, and one big shot (thank you Carol) took down terminus.  It's like they'll never learn that they need to not have big loud destructive noises.

[Spartan Girl]

Can we please just stop having horses on this show?  I'm sick of seeing them die horribly.

 

Oh Rick, please do NOT sleep with that married lady.  People are already comparing you to Shane, do not stoop to Lori's level too.  And I'm not just saying that because I want you to hook up with Michonne -- seeing her in uniform did make me squeal in happiness though.

 

Carol: What. The. Hell?  Is she having a sociopath relapse?  I mean, threatening a child?  Are you freaking kidding me????

[HalcyonDays]

So much to quote and respond too...stop writing so much, people!! *grin*

 

Didn't one of the cars at Terminus have an "A" on it?   As did FPP's chucch?

 

Now that you said that, I sort of remember that!! One of the ambulances had a cross on it. Can anyone confirm if there were A's on the church and car??

 

Sorry, but I don't care. It's a damn horse. Human beings get ripped apart on this show all the time. The fact that people are so cool with that but will quit a show because of animal death is the dumbest thing to me (sorry animal lovers).

 

Gonna have to disagree with you on this. The humans are the ones who gave us Woodbury, the rape camps and cannibalism at Terminus, the ones who attacked and burned down the prison. The humans are the ones pillaging and attacking and destroying. Animals are loyal. Humans are not. I'll take the animals any day.

 

 

I do believe I've been out there too long because that cocktail party made me twitchy.  The established population of Alexandria are way too comfortable.  So comfortable they can't even see how lucky they've been.  They have no clue.  I'm with Sasha all the way.  The fuck, people?  You're worried about dinner?  Sasha just ate feral dog because there was nothing else around.

 

Completely agree. It's the case of the ASZ group being too complacent, because they never had to face what CDB have faced. They are no clue as to the horrors out there. Aaron has seen some of it, that's why he was pretty calm when taking down those walkers.

 

Ugh. I'll take a hundred walker hordes over one party where I have to mingle with a bunch of people I don't know.

 

I agree. That cocktail party filled with flowery twin-sets and pastel golf shirts just rubbed me the wrong way. All of that idiotic talk about pasta makers and useless chatter just annoyed me. Good for Sasha for giving them a bit of a reality check. I just wish she went into them more instead of walking away.

 

Jesse has now mentioned two times the lack of babies in Alexandria. Odd since its been two years and the town seems to have couples that should have had babies by now. Speculation:

Maybe the town folk have fertility issues and she wants something from Rick and her husband the Dr. is in on it.

 

OMG - this is a great theory. Now that you said it, it could totally make sense. I could see that!!

 

I was kind of wondering about that, and I apologize if it has already been discussed in another episode thread.

 

Deanna said they've exiled people.  I wonder if getting exiled involves getting a letter carved into your forehead so you don't ever get back in (upthread, BrokenRemote mentioned getting back into a party with a stamped hand; this would be the opposite).  A worse stigma than the scarlet letter.

 

Also, the unfair wolves... The Alexandrians are total sheep, and I think Deanna sees herself as a shepherd.  They're looking to invite wolves into the fold.  Maybe the people with the W's were the "unfair" wolves.

 

Yikes - that is a creepy idea - being scarred deliberately to ensure ASZ can identify you. Very creepy, but there is something sinister behind all of these perfectly made up people of ASZ. I can see it. I do think that maybe somehow the Unfair Wolves are ASZ themselves. They were unfair by exiling the others, and the exiled attacked another community - just like Alexandria - to take supplied and weapons. I think they are going to revenge attack Alexandria.

 

On a similar note, I do wonder if that extra chocolate she snagged is really what's going to get her into trouble.  They're rationing, and keeping the amount posted on the chalkboard above the freezer.  Someone might look into the missing chocolate.

 

Carol needed the chocolate to bake the cookies for that kid (Sam?) who she threatened. Initially, I thought she was going to eat the chocolate. But she told the kid that if he remained quiet, she would bake him a whole tray of cookies - she has to follow through. That's how I saw it.

[Kobo Duram]

I think the group was told that there are 4 gates.

 

THERE.  ARE.  FOUR.  GATES!!!

[morgankobi]

Book Club is the most ridiculous thing in this world unless your selection is a tactical manual.

 

What's the point of boxes full of guns when it appears about 10 people outside of CDB can use them?

[Wessex]

Can we please just stop having horses on this show?  I'm sick of seeing them die horribly.

 

 

Yeah, I agree, although I comfort myself with the thought that in real life a horse in the wild would smell a zombie a mile away and would run -- and could run from zombies.  

[Haleth]

Book Club is the most ridiculous thing in this world unless your selection is a tactical manual.

Or gardening/farming.  If Deanna wants a sustainable community, they'd better start sustaining.  It looks like the ASZ people have a lot of free time on their hands.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Haleth

[lulee]

Jesse has now mentioned two times the lack of babies in Alexandria. Odd since its been two years and the town seems to have couples that should have had babies by now. Speculation:

Maybe the town folk have fertility issues and she wants something from Rick and her husband the Dr. is in on it.

That would be a bit too LOST to me.

 

And, btw, I think there's no need to spoilertag if it's pure spec ;-)

Edited March 9, 2015 by lulee

[Ohwell]

I didn't like the fact that Sasha made an ass out of herself at the party.  Granted, she's been through hell but if she felt so traumatized then she should have bailed out on the party.  No need to spoil things for people trying to get through life by having a good time.  

 

Also, regarding the ASZ people, we don't know their back stories either.  Sure, they might have had it rather easy for the past two years or so but I'm sure they had relatives and friends who they've lost who had the misfortune of living in the ZA.  I don't like the attitude of the CDB people being scornful of them because they're "soft."  If the CDB people think that's a bad thing, then they need to keep steppin'.  

[Boofish]

I think Daryl was just happy someone finally didn't judge him on sight. I find in life people who have been judged are more accepting. No invasive questions, no nagging him to bathe, no talking to him like he is stupid. They just liked him and that made me weep a little for him as well. My name is Boofish and I too have not mastered the art of eating spaghetti in public. It is especially shameful because my boyfriend is Italian (and I'm straight out of Compton! Not really, I was born in Louisiana but it don't sound as bad assed) Anyway, it drives him crazy that I chop it up into fine little pieces that will fit on a fork nice and neat and then eat it .. 

[kj4ever]

How do you all think Rick and Daryl would/will respond if/when they find out how Carol talked to that child?

[AndySmith]

 

I find in life people who have been judged are more accepting

 

You'd think, but as a gay Arab, I've experienced some pretty racist/bigoted comments from other gays and minorities (for example, hearing black people use the term "towel head"). But hey, good to see Daryl open up, even if its just a little.

[lulee]

How do you all think Rick and Daryl would/will respond if/when they find out how Carol talked to that child?

He ought to say that she needs to dial it down and not raise suspicion for anyone.

[Boofish]

How do you all think Rick and Daryl would/will respond if/when they find out how Carol talked to that child?

Daryl might be taken aback but Rick would be all "and that kid is still alive;why?" 

[hoosiermommy]

I don't mind the idea of striving to return to normalcy and building a community per se, but I do think it really idiotic to make that a top priority, before, oh, I don't know...perimeter security.  I mean, even pre-ZA, there are communities that protect themselves better than this (gated communities with security guards, homes with security systems, shopfronts with barred windows or security doors).  Even before walkers appeared on the scene, the threat has been other people.  If these people wouldn't have ever met pre-ZA, that tells me that we have a wide swath of socio-economic backgrounds represented, so not all of them lived a charmed life pre-ZA and some of them have got to have seen that people are always the biggest threat.  And even if they can't see the human threat, they can't be totally ignorant of the walker threat as they have already lost people on a run, so I just don't understand how there isn't vigilance, if not hypervigilance, on the part of this community to ensure that their innocents can stay innocent.

 

I think Deanna's desire to create a government before even ensuring border integrity and security to those within is ridiculous.  I am not going to get into the echoes of how it mirrors DC politics today, but will say that she strikes me as one of those Homeowners Association Presidents who thinks they are more important than they really are.  She can't control much in this world, but damn it, she will control the grass mowing schedule (except apparently not in ASZ because the grass is far from manicured).

 

I don't remember what it was (if there was just the way Dr. Pete talked to Jesse at the party or if there was actually something I saw in the last scene) that read controlling douche, but I though Rick reached for his gun to assure himself that if things went bad, he was prepared.   I go hiking alone sometimes.  I take pepper spray.  I never intend to use it, but I like to check occasionally while I am out on the trail just to make sure I can get to it quickly in the event I need it.  I do the same thing with my camera, too. 

 

I understand not wanting to let your guard down.  They've seen horrible things and if the town is run as incompetently as it appears to be with such lax security, I'd be even more on my guard, because heaven knows these ASZ folks aren't going to be able to have my people's backs if they can't bother to put someone in the clocktower, or have a perimeter detail, or do they even have an alarm system?

 

[morgankobi]

So I looked up Tovah Feldshuh on imdb just to see what else she's done (can be tad spoilery) and saw she played Sarah Wolf in The 3 Little Wolfs! And she is being unfair to Sasha making her come to that party before she'll consider her for sniper duty!

Edited March 9, 2015 by morgankobi

[kj4ever]

So I looked up Tovah Feldshuh on imdb just to see what else she's done (can be tad spoilery) and saw she played Sarah Wolf in The 3 Little Wolfs! And she is being unfair to Sasha making her come to that party before she'll consider her for sniper duty!

Seriously what did she think she'd gain by having Sasha come to the party??

[beaker73]

I totally agree, and I think it's pretty much an accepted fact that TPTB/writers have an effed up perception of women and romantic love. Maybe it was just the actress' reaction to the kiss, but that scene came across as creepy and gross. Also, if Carl is trying to fit in and make friends, Rick banging his new friend's mom and tearing up that family isn't going to help matters.

Other than her husband kind of calling Rick out on the porch last episode, and them agreeing he doesn't make the best first impression, do we have any reason to believe it's a bad marriage, or that he's a bad guy? Honestly wondering if I missed something there.

After Jessie introduced Pete to Rick he says something about getting them a drink refill.  Jessie starts to say "I can get it", but Pete (with his back to her) cuts her off and says, "I'm on it."  I got a bad vibe from him like they play happy married couple in public, but things are much different in private. 

 

I have to honestly say that I didn't pick up on Jessie feeling uncomfortable when Rick kissed her on the cheek.  I interpreted it as she also felt the attraction and knew it was wrong--not that the kiss was unwelcomed.  It's interesting how scenes can be viewed so differently by people. :) 

[bosawks]

I do love the episodes where Rick and Carol embrace the crazy.  I'm pro any reason for Andrew and Melissa to bite into a scene like a, well, like a fresh baked cookie.

 

I also love things like the Nathaniel Hawthorne commerative stamp.  Could it mean something "yes", could it be symbolic "yes" and could it be completely meaningless "hell yes"!

[Boofish]

 

 

Aww, Aaron recognized that Daryl knows what a good guy is. I’m not sure Daryl will make a good recruiter, but I do want to see the look on strangers’ faces when he approaches them and says, hey, you should come with me, I will save you.

 

That's how Bob got to the prison! 

[morgankobi]

Other than her husband kind of calling Rick out on the porch last episode, and them agreeing he doesn't make the best first impression, do we have any reason to believe it's a bad marriage, or that he's a bad guy? Honestly wondering if I missed something there.

 

 

I think the fact that they got married because Jessie got pregnant may also add to this--story-wise, not real-life-wise.

 

The way they humor Sam and the stamp made me think he might be a little "special" somehow. But it also reads as incredibly sheltered and coddled, so I'm not sure.

[AndySmith]

The way they humor Sam and the stamp made me think he might be a little "special" somehow. But it also reads as incredibly sheltered and coddled, so I'm not sure.

 

The stamp could be a way for them all to bond together symbolically as a community.

Edited March 9, 2015 by AndySmith

[beaker73]

Carol is officially the boogie man. That kid is gonna be checking under his bed for her every night.

 

OMG, Daryl/Eric/Aaron gave me all the feels tonight!

 

 

Rick going for the 1st basic ass chick he meets?  So disappointing! Her greatest loss in all of this is probably that she left behind her collection of Ugg boots, Hollister gear and Friends DVDs.  

 

Rick you could've had a QUEEN! 

 

Rick Grimes was looking all kinds of good at that party with his stubble and crisp clean shirt!

 

Felt bad for Sasha. Hope she gets to hook up with the cute boy who opened the door for her at the party.

 

I really wish the show would let Michonne shave those dreads and let Danai wear her natural hair.

 

Why did I think Deanna's husband the architect was dead?

She referred to her husband in both the present and past tense last week.  I thought we would come to find out that he was one of the people she banished.