Michelle and JimBob aka J'Chelle and Boob

[Cherrio]

Sociopathic types are often the nicest people. It sucks.

 A bit of history for a second.  Ted Bundy carefully crafted a facade of an extremely caring, likable and charismatic personality.    He ACTUALLY has real politicians come to his defense when he was apprehended the first time.  He had been thought of as a real up and comer in politics, not like Josh with his joke job and his hate group.

        Jim Bob is not caring or charismatic in the least, but he had a weak subject in Michelle, then innocent defenseless children to abuse and manipulate.

[PityFree]

I never thought about it before, but I think that posters on this board are right. JB met a young girl who was out of his league. He kept picking at her insecurities and things that she felt guilty about as a way to control her. He added Gothard to the mix and he had her under his thumb, lock, stock, and barrel. Now he's doing the same thing with his children. What a sicko, controlling, jerk.

OMG! Do you know what this means? JimBoob is a fundy PICK-UP ARTIST!!!!! He did a "neg" on Me-chelle and scored a fundy wife! Gross. 

[Aja]

I always kind of figured Michelle was completely devastated by her first miscarriage and, from there, was easily manipulated and guilted into whatever kind of crazy penance she thinks she's been doing ever since. Miscarriages are no joke and can send a woman into a spiral. I'd imagine it's that much worse if you're already quite a religious woman and you have a bunch of idiots making you feel like YOU did something wrong.

[Churchhoney]

 A bit of history for a second.  Ted Bundy carefully crafted a facade of an extremely caring, likable and charismatic personality.    He ACTUALLY has real politicians come to his defense when he was apprehended the first time.  He had been thought of as a real up and comer in politics, not like Josh with his joke job and his hate group.

        Jim Bob is not caring or charismatic in the least, but he had a weak subject in Michelle, then innocent defenseless children to abuse and manipulate.

 

Exactly. And a master manipulator who can get hold of multiple newborns -- one after another as he hones his manipulative skills -- and keep them completely within his sphere of influence for every day of their lives thereafter has an ability to warp and mold a person like no other.

 

And he never lets them out of his sight. What I've said all along is that that's the entire point of the isolation they impose on these kids. Religion and Gothard have never been anything but a publicly plausible cover for the sickening domestic tyranny that this gross, fearful, mean, deeply stupid little man must impose or feel his ego crumbling. That's why there's always uncertainty about whether he "really" follows any theology, or whatever. "Belief" is completely meaningless to the creepy bastard, only a tool and a cover story. It's all about his power.

 

And the idea that, Oh, but they have outside friends in the ATI community so they're not so very isolated! is bullshit, too. Those so-called "friendships" are purely meaningless, stage dressing to make the whole thing look normal, another ruse to help him get away with it, just like his Hyuk hyuk hyuk good old boy "charm" mask, his trips to amusement parks with the little ones and his tears at the girls' weddings. He's a skilled enough manipulator to play both good cop and bad cop to his own purposes. And, oh yeah, I'm sure he believes that he's the greatest, most loving guy. But noone in that household has ever been permitted to be a true individual, separate from Jim Bob, for five minutes. And Michelle can never be forgiven for the few times that she may have been herself before she met him. They're like that Chinese emperor's terra cotta army. They may look realistic. But they're not truly alive. AndiIn his eyes, they have no purpose except to magnify the glory of Jim Bob, on into future generations.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Churchhoney

[barbedwire]

As someone here said yesterday, regarding another matter: One of those people has a penis.

 

Of course Churchhoney!  I should know better:  one set of rules for the gals, and another for the guys.

[Churchhoney]

Of course Churchhoney!  I should know better:  one set of rules for the gals, and another for the guys.

 

They try to keep us from remembering this!

[BitterApple]

Sociopathic types are often the nicest people. It sucks.

Absolutely, sociopaths and narcissists are master manipulators. Think of how many infamous killers have been described as charming and gregarious.

Boob's treatment of Josiah during paintball and the Jubilee fiasco is proof enough for me that he's not so nicey-nice all the time.

[JoanArc]

 

A bit of history for a second.  Ted Bundy carefully crafted a facade of an extremely caring, likable and charismatic personality.    He ACTUALLY has real politicians come to his defense when he was apprehended the first time.  He had been thought of as a real up and comer in politics, not like Josh with his joke job and his hate group.

        Jim Bob is not caring or charismatic in the least, but he had a weak subject in Michelle, then innocent defenseless children to abuse and manipulate.

I won't go as extreme as a POS like Bundy, but Jim Bob, Michelle, and to an extent Josh, all have a mask. The fact that it's so ill fitting is kind of a relief, since most people can see what they really are. If Jim Bob'd put more genuine work into his image, he'd be dangerous. Good thing he's both stupid and lazy.

 

 

That's why there's always uncertainty about whether he "really" follows any theology, or whatever. "Belief" is completely meaningless to the creepy bastard, only a tool and a cover story. It's all about his power.

I really don't think any of the Duggars give a shit about true religion. They're all Duggarists at heart. The parents. Becuse it gives them power, the kids because they know no better.

Edited August 5, 2015 by JoanArc

[SometimesBites]

I won’t speculate about whether Jim-Bob is physically abusive when the cameras aren’t rolling,  although it is certainly in the realm of possibility; having lived through it myself and having later worked in the field of domestic violence, I know it’s horribly commonplace. But I can’t know it’s a fact for JB and Michelle unless someone owns up to it.

 

But I do want to touch on this exploration of Michelle and her reasons for apparently choosing and staying in her nutty life. I was caught up in a not terribly dissimilar situation for over twenty years. Although I only had four kids (“only” in comparison to Michelle!) I can easily imagine myself in her shoes. If I'd been with a man who was really into the quiverfull movement the way Jim Bob is, I might very well have gone far overboard in that direction. I loved the story of Susannah Wesley and her 19 children (yep…19). I had home births, and for quite a while I home-schooled.

 

And I was doing all this while married to a man who was physically, emotionally, and financially abusive. He also turned out to be an alcoholic. All told, I stayed with him for more than 18 years.

 

This may be hard to believe, but I’m not a doormat personality, and I’m not a stupid person. In fact, I’m pretty assertive and fiesty; I have a bachelor’s degree from Stanford and a Master’s degree, too (that all happened long after I escaped the first marriage). So how did I end up living in a way that was so foreign to my nature, with a man who was not only a dick, but an idiot?

 

I think it’s sort of a perfect storm situation. I married at a young age (20), and I had extremely romantic ideals about marriage/family that were strongly under-girded by my fundamental Christian belief system. Even after my actual husband and actual marriage proved to be highly problematic and not even close to the supposed ideal biblical marriage, the system I was immersed in acted as an institutional steel fence. The ideas were so strongly proscribed and prescribed, the roles and standards so utterly black-and-white, that even at my most desperate I would double-down on them in an attempt to make things better.

 

EVERYTHING in my life was geared to keep me there. The pastoral counseling. The confiding to women in leadership positions. The books I read, the bible studies I attended, the prayer groups I went to, the songs we sang, the retreats I went on…all of it just pointed me back to the center of my torment, like a rat in a maze that has no exit, or a starving person who eats poisoned food to relieve her hunger.

 

It was truly an insane way to live.

 

I escaped it, finally, in a big, dramatic, painful fashion. But my marriage and family wasn’t on display in front of the entire country.

 

No matter how Michelle might feel about her life in the deepest realms of her psyche, she may as well have a choke collar around her throat. It’s almost no wonder that she was willing to keep having babies even when her life was at risk—that would be one way to escape and still be looked on as a Proverbs 31 woman. I believe it would take an explosion of nuclear proportions to shake her out of this circus she’s living in (assuming she can even admit that the way her life has evolved is a train wreck).

 

(PS: My life now is absolutely wonderful…I can hardly believe I wasted all those years!)

Edited August 5, 2015 by SometimesBites

[Bella]

Thanks for that perspective, SometimesBites. And I'm glad you got out.

[kokapetl]

I won't go as extreme as a POS like Bundy, but Jim Bob, Michelle, and to an extent Josh, all have a mask. The fact that it's so ill fitting is kind of a relief, since most people can see what they really are. If Jim Bob'd put more genuine work into his image, he'd be dangerous. Good thing he's both stupid and lazy.

 

I really don't think any of the Duggars give a shit about true religion. They're all Duggarists at heart. The parents. Becuse it gives them power, the kids because they know no better.

I find the psychology of Michelle fascinating. I was raised and think so differently she might as well be from Mars. I would love to know what she really thinks about her life and if she is honestly happy. I pity her and am revolted by her simultaneously and I'm sure if she knew me the feeling would be mutual. Jim Bob is a simpler creature, it's good to be King.

  

It makes sense for Michelle to be in an abusive situation; she never seems to want to be there, and her personality does come through in the above-mentioned instances. She was likely a very lively, happy teen, but now she's hard and cold, and her family seems mystified as to what happened to her.

 

But I just have the hardest time picturing anyone being afraid of JimBob. He's a complete dorkwad. It's 100% possible that he's a tyrant to his family when the cameras aren't rolling, but having seen his face and behavior before, I just can't picture a scenario where anyone would be intimidated by him in the slightest! I'd love to have a glimpse into what they're like when they aren't "on" for the camera, because if normal JimBob is anything slightly resembling "reality show JimBob" I don't see why his wife or children would take him seriously, let alone him being in a position of power.

I think JimBob was just very, very lucky with Michelle. I think Michelle does or doesn't do what Michelle does or doesn't want to do, like have kids, not raising those kids or cooking or doing housework etc. I think JimBob would have expected her to do the housewife and childcare stuff, but she clearly won those arguments. At first glance she looks like a huge victim, but her mask is by far the most convincing.

[GeeGolly]

   I think JimBob was just very, very lucky with Michelle. I think Michelle does or doesn't do what Michelle does or doesn't want to do, like have kids, not raising those kids or cooking or doing housework etc. I think JimBob would have expected her to do the housewife and childcare stuff, but she clearly won those arguments. At first glance she looks like a huge victim, but her mask is by far the most convincing.

Yes, it is a match made in - well it is a good match. They are equally enamored with themselves and each other. I think it was Michelle who brought them deeper into religiosity and Jim Bob gleefully agreed. She is certainly not a helpmeet in the ways Fundies define it.  I think Michelle found out early on, by the 5th kid or so, that this wasn't working for her, hence the buddy system. I think the buddy system was really a buddy thing in the beginning, like helping in the mornings, or getting ready to leave the house, a hand holder in the community, etc, then evolved into sister moms as the 4 oldest become but capable. Michelle went from having helpers to having home grown Au Pairs. 

[CarolMK]

I still can't believe that these two are actually grifting for donations via their website or youtube channel. Even big stars like Robin Williams and Michael J Fox have had television shows cancelled. No one is immune from the possibility of their shows ending, yet I think Jim Bob thought that they were so popular and beloved that they would be on the air until all their kids reached adulthood. Another problem with reality tv, unlike actors, who have been trained in what to expect with the industry, sudden fame for ordinary people clouds their judgement and inflates their perception of themselves. Hopefully they'll eventually fade away. I know I haven't been keeping up with all of the news of this family since they'be been off tv, maybe most of the world will do the same.

[Aja]

I won’t speculate about whether Jim-Bob is physically abusive when the cameras aren’t rolling,  although it is certainly in the realm of possibility; having lived through it myself and having later worked in the field of domestic violence, I know it’s horribly commonplace. But I can’t know it’s a fact for JB and Michelle unless someone owns up to it.

 

But I do want to touch on this exploration of Michelle and her reasons for apparently choosing and staying in her nutty life. I was caught up in a not terribly dissimilar situation for over twenty years. Although I only had four kids (“only” in comparison to Michelle!) I can easily imagine myself in her shoes. If I'd been with a man who was really into the quiverfull movement the way Jim Bob is, I might very well have gone far overboard in that direction. I loved the story of Susannah Wesley and her 19 children (yep…19). I had home births, and for quite a while I home-schooled.

 

And I was doing all this while married to a man who was physically, emotionally, and financially abusive. He also turned out to be an alcoholic. All told, I stayed with him for more than 18 years.

 

This may be hard to believe, but I’m not a doormat personality, and I’m not a stupid person. In fact, I’m pretty assertive and fiesty; I have a bachelor’s degree from Stanford and a Master’s degree, too (that all happened long after I escaped the first marriage). So how did I end up living in a way that was so foreign to my nature, with a man who was not only a dick, but an idiot?

 

I think it’s sort of a perfect storm situation. I married at a young age (20), and I had extremely romantic ideals about marriage/family that were strongly under-girded by my fundamental Christian belief system. Even after my actual husband and actual marriage proved to be highly problematic and not even close to the supposed ideal biblical marriage, the system I was immersed in acted as an institutional steel fence. The ideas were so strongly proscribed and prescribed, the roles and standards so utterly black-and-white, that even at my most desperate I would double-down on them in an attempt to make things better.

 

EVERYTHING in my life was geared to keep me there. The pastoral counseling. The confiding to women in leadership positions. The books I read, the bible studies I attended, the prayer groups I went to, the songs we sang, the retreats I went on…all of it just pointed me back to the center of my torment, like a rat in a maze that has no exit, or a starving person who eats poisoned food to relieve her hunger.

 

It was truly an insane way to live.

 

I escaped it, finally, in a big, dramatic, painful fashion. But my marriage and family wasn’t on display in front of the entire country.

 

No matter how Michelle might feel about her life in the deepest realms of her psyche, she may as well have a choke collar around her throat. It’s almost no wonder that she was willing to keep having babies even when her life was at risk—that would be one way to escape and still be looked on as a Proverbs 31 woman. I believe it would take an explosion of nuclear proportions to shake her out of this circus she’s living in (assuming she can even admit that the way her life has evolved is a train wreck).

 

(PS: My life now is absolutely wonderful…I can hardly believe I wasted all those years!)

Wow. You need to write a book. I'd buy the crap out of it.

[Churchhoney]

I still can't believe that these two are actually grifting for donations via their website or youtube channel. Even big stars like Robin Williams and Michael J Fox have had television shows cancelled.

 

Sure, but they weren't God's most favoritest person!

[Defrauder]

Don't let Jim Bob fool you. I was with a man who wasn't just liked by everyone he met--he was straight up LOVED. Generous, funny, uncannily perceptive and good at reading people, an excellent ice-breaker and tension diffuser in social situations. Did not mind one bit beating the crap out of me behind closed doors. It makes it trickier for people to believe the abuse victim, too. I don't put anything past anyone. There's no telling what comes out when the cameras are off.

That s so terrible Aja, I'm sorry that happened to you, my heart dropped as  was reading it.  You know what I have found in life with some people - the more abusive they are to someone behind closed doors the more they need to be thought of as wonderful and kind to others.  The more they need that pat on the back the you're so great from various people, and I've thought about it and I've come to the conclusion that they need this praise - constantly in order to deny the real truth within themselves.  They have to constantly cancel out the truth within themselves about how abusive they are with praise from others - because others aren't lying so it must be true they really are great and not abusive.  As for the Duggars - why JB and MEchelle NEED the show to continue.  Because although JB may be controlling and abusive, MEchelle also needs praise about how wonderful SHE is.  They seem to support each others delusions about themselves.

[SometimesBites]

Wow. You need to write a book. I'd buy the crap out of it.

Thanks, Aja...I can't stop laughing at this. I have written a book, but it's a novel, not a memoir about my checkered past. ;)

[andromeda331]

I think JimBob was just very, very lucky with Michelle. I think Michelle does or doesn't do what Michelle does or doesn't want to do, like have kids, not raising those kids or cooking or doing housework etc. I think JimBob would have expected her to do the housewife and childcare stuff, but she clearly won those arguments. At first glance she looks like a huge victim, but her mask is by far the most convincing.

Yes, it is a match made in - well it is a good match. They are equally enamored with themselves and each other.

 

 

I do agree with this. Michelle never does anything she doesn't want to do.

Their a perfect match. It has to be all about them all of the time. Michelle

can't handle not being the center of attention. She talks about what a

good wife should do conveniently she doesn't do any of that. She never

cooks or cleans. She has zero interest in her kids or grandkids. In every

situation she's looking on how to get the conversation back on herself. I

think she loves talking about the bikini incident. In her mind it shows how

hot she was she broke up a marriage. She loves to talk about things she

did as a kid that she now refuses to let her kids do. Just like JimBob she

can't handle any of them showing her up. Its obvious from the dirty

looks she gives when her daughter-in-law or daughter announces

she's pregnant. In her mind she has a great life, a husband who

worships her and servants to cook and clean for her, and for

a decade had money rolling in. People were dying to talk

to her. To interview her. Everyone was even People Magazine.

She was on talk shows, she got a new house, she got to

announce pregnancies to the world. And got awards.

She got to travel to different places because people wanted

to hear from her. Life was perfect.

[Defrauder]

I never understood the first miscarriage, the Caleb miscarriage.  It was an early pregnancy termination so they didn't know if it would have been a boy or girl.  OK, so they assumed that it was a boy and named him Caleb.  The story they give is that after Josh was born, Michelle went back on birth control pills and that's when she got pregnant.  That seems odd - to get pregnant on the pill, but OK for the sake of argument somehow that happened.  She miscarried and they blamed it on the birth control pills she had been taking.  Medical science says that would not be a cause.  JB & Michelle felt guilty about the whole miscarriage- being caused by the birth control pill. They then went on to have as many kids as is humanly possible.  I don't blame them, or anyone, for a miscarriage, but I don't find JB and Michelle to be very truthful about a lot of things and I wonder if there could have been another cause that they don't want to own up to.  It could have just been a regular miscarriage but JB & Michelle couldn't accept that nature or as they would say 'God' allowed this to happen to them so they blamed themselves and the pill.  I don't know.

[Aja]

Thanks, Aja...I can't stop laughing at this. I have written a book, but it's a novel, not a memoir about my checkered past. ;)

Oh how cool! PM me the book title, I wanna see! 

 

 

I do agree with this. Michelle never does anything she doesn't want to do.

Their a perfect match. It has to be all about them all of the time. Michelle

can't handle not being the center of attention. She talks about what a

good wife should do conveniently she doesn't do any of that. She never

cooks or cleans. She has zero interest in her kids or grandkids. In every

situation she's looking on how to get the conversation back on herself. I

think she loves talking about the bikini incident. In her mind it shows how

hot she was she broke up a marriage. She loves to talk about things she

did as a kid that she now refuses to let her kids do. Just like JimBob she

can't handle any of them showing her up. Its obvious from the dirty

looks she gives when her daughter-in-law or daughter announces

she's pregnant. In her mind she has a great life, a husband who

worships her and servants to cook and clean for her, and for

a decade had money rolling in. People were dying to talk

to her. To interview her. Everyone was even People Magazine.

She was on talk shows, she got a new house, she got to

announce pregnancies to the world. And got awards.

She got to travel to different places because people wanted

to hear from her. Life was perfect.

How insightful. I'd also add to that perspective that the whole reality-fame crap quite possibly pushed her even deeper into her own dysfunction for exactly that reason. She was being rewarded and validated in ways that most average people could not imagine for being who she is. Michelle feeds into the most base, narcissistic-male fantasy going, since the beginning of time--fertile, obedient woman who only "shows her stuff" to her husband and stares and smiles at him like she's stoned off her ass all the time. It's like how you're not supposed to pet and comfort your dog during a thunder storm because they interpret that as praise, like "Oh, I must be reacting the correct way--with terror--because I'm totally being rewarded for my behavior right now." 

[Skittl1321]

 That seems odd - to get pregnant on the pill, but OK for the sake of argument somehow that happened.

That part of the story is fine.  BC pills are only highly effective if taken correctly- and the vast majority of users don't.  Not to mention there is still a percent of women who do take them correctly and get pregnant. They aren't a 100% method; and clearly MIchelle is super fertile.

 

Like you, I don't think science would support "the pill caused the miscarriage".  And I understand that a miscarriage can be very very hard for many women to deal with; but Michelle went over the edge to batshit crazy; she needed help.  But that was many many years ago- maybe today women in the same position would feel more comfortable getting therapy. I doubt Michelle would, but in general, therapy is more accepted today.

 

Since miscarriage was seen as a punishment; I do feel horrible for those in the community today who suffer them. Because they are completely normal, and quite honestly to be expected by someone who gets pregnant as often as these people do; ESPECIALLY because they test so early.  I hate to think all these girls think they are being punished for something.

[bigskygirl]

Breaking in. Am I the only one who wants the neighbor who was supposedly defrauding by Michelle wearing a swimsuit while mowing the lawn to the point of leaving his wife be interviewed. I bet dollars to donuts,his story would be completely different.

[yankee1151]

Breaking in. Am I the only one who wants the neighbor who was supposedly defrauding by Michelle wearing a swimsuit while mowing the lawn to the point of leaving his wife be interviewed. I bet dollars to donuts,his story would be completely different.

I would totally watch that.  I bet that would get higher ratings than any of the wedding/birth shows.  Someone needs to find that guy!

 

ETA I'd also love to see an interview with Michelle's lesbian sister.  Or any of her family members, for that matter.

Edited August 6, 2015 by yankee1151

[Darknight]

Breaking in. Am I the only one who wants the neighbor who was supposedly defrauding by Michelle wearing a swimsuit while mowing the lawn to the point of leaving his wife be interviewed. I bet dollars to donuts,his story would be completely different.

Maybe there's no neighbor Michelle defrauded. Maybe it's just a made up story to explain why they're fundie

[floridamom]

This infamous bikini mowing the lawn story that Michelle has made such a big deal out of over these decades I'm sure isn't anything in reality. That neighbor's husband who supposedly left his wife because a 14 year old MIchelle was mowing the lawn in her bathing suit....if asked about Michelle Ruark, he'd say "Michelle Ruark ?...WHO?

[ariel]

Breaking in. Am I the only one who wants the neighbor who was supposedly defrauding by Michelle wearing a swimsuit while mowing the lawn to the point of leaving his wife be interviewed. I bet dollars to donuts,his story would be completely different.

Me too.  That story doesn't make sense.  I can possibly see him leaving his wife if he was able to date Michelle.  He didn't.  Why would you leave your wife for someone who doesn't show any interest in you?

Edited August 6, 2015 by ariel

[JoanArc]

 

I never understood the first miscarriage, the Caleb miscarriage.  It was an early pregnancy termination so they didn't know if it would have been a boy or girl.

Sometimes I honestly wonder if there was a miscarriage.

[BatmanBeatles]

Maybe there's no neighbor Michelle defrauded. Maybe it's just a made up story to explain why they're fundie

Or just simply said neighbors had marriage problems way before the defraud happened.

[amitville]

Thanks, Aja...I can't stop laughing at this. I have written a book, but it's a novel, not a memoir about my checkered past. ;)

If you do not mind pm me with the title so i can read it. thank you

[Defrauder]

Breaking in. Am I the only one who wants the neighbor who was supposedly defrauding by Michelle wearing a swimsuit while mowing the lawn to the point of leaving his wife be interviewed. I bet dollars to donuts,his story would be completely different.

Completely different is a definite.  No guy is going to run and get a divorce from his wife just because he watched Michelle mow the lawn in a bikini.  Maybe in Michelle's fantasy life she is so incredibly hot that any guy who sees her super great bod (lol,no) or knees for that matter would run off and get a divorce because his wife just didn't measure up to the great Michelle.  Pure Fantasy in Michelle's mind.

[GeeGolly]

Even if there was any truth to it, I'm sure it would be more like this: Bill is outside picking weeds and glances over at the bikini clad neighbor. His wife yells out the kitchen window "Bill come here". Bill goes inside for lunch. Two years later Bill moves out because he can no longer stand faking being straight any longer and moves in with his boyfriend.

[Oldernowiser]

Completely different is a definite.  No guy is going to run and get a divorce from his wife just because he watched Michelle mow the lawn in a bikini.  Maybe in Michelle's fantasy life she is so incredibly hot that any guy who sees her super great bod (lol,no) or knees for that matter would run off and get a divorce because his wife just didn't measure up to the great Michelle.  Pure Fantasy in Michelle's mind.

Pure narcissism. Even if she wants/needs to believe her unrivaled hotness was the cause of the divorce (that's some kind of Christianity she's got going there), who actually says that out loud? In public? On their "ministry platform"?

That's some major self-worship going on there...

[Defrauder]

Even if there was any truth to it, I'm sure it would be more like this: Bill is outside picking weeds and glances over at the bikini clad neighbor. His wife yells out the kitchen window "Bill come here". Bill goes inside for lunch. Two years later Bill moves out because he can no longer stand faking being straight any longer and moves in with his boyfriend.

I love this version.  I'm laughing so hard I have tears running down my cheeks. As my husband Bill looks on....

Pure narcissism. Even if she wants/needs to believe her unrivaled hotness was the cause of the divorce (that's some kind of Christianity she's got going there), who actually says that out loud? In public? On their "ministry platform"?

That's some major self-worship going on there...

I love this too.

[Wellfleet]

Sometimes I honestly wonder if there was a miscarriage.

 

Have wondered this myself. Narcissists and last-borns excel at seeing that the attention of the group is always being drawn back to them. I can easily see Me-chelle concocting an imagined "tragedy" - one that no one but her could ever be sure really happened - once she feels she's being forgotten about again. Who knows if there ever really was a J-Caleb? And did we hear one syllable about her "eating disorder" while she was still having babies? I can't remember for sure, but the bulimia story seems like relatively new news - something we didn't learn about until she stopped having her annual baby.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Wellfleet

[Defrauder]

Have wondered this myself. Narcissists and last-borns excel at seeing that the attention of the group is always being drawn back to them. I can easily see Me-chelle concocting an imagined "tragedy" - one that no one but her could ever be sure really happened - once she feels she's being forgotten about again. Who know if there ever really was a J-Caleb? And did we hear one syllable about her "eating disorder" while she was still having babies? I can't remember for sure, but the bulimia story seems like relatively new news - something we didn't learn about until she stopped having her annual baby.

I've also wondered if they didn't want another one so soon after Josh so when she found herself pregnant they decided to try to end it by taking birth control pills and it so happened to end by coincidence.  Then when they 'found the Lord' they felt really guilty and decided to change the story a bit.

[Julia]

You know, since both things came up on the same page, it seems odd that all at the same time Michelle believes that

 

1. her scantily-clad teenaged body could compel grown men in committed sacramental relationships to abandon their families, and 
2. it's completely ordinary for children to have sexual impulses they want to act out with their siblings, especially the ones who defraud them, but
3. even though she's convinced that homosexuality is in no way innate or hardwired, her sister clearly independently and of her own free will made the choice to be a lesbian

 

She's a strange woman.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Julia

[Bella]

You know, since both things came up on the same page, it seems odd that all at the same time Michelle believes that

 

1. her scantily-clad teenaged body could compel grown men in committed sacramental relationships to abandon their families, and 
2. it's completely ordinary for children to have sexual impulses they want to act out with their siblings, especially the ones who defraud them, but
3. even though she's convinced that homosexuality is in no way innate or hardwired, her sister clearly independently and of her own free will made the choice to be a lesbian

 

She's a strange woman.

 

IOW, only homosexuals can control their urges. Right. Got it. 

[SometimesBites]

...something we didn't learn about until she stopped having her annual baby.

The annual baby. That is such a bizarre idea, yet so close to reality that it boggles the mind. How WEIRD it must be for her now--to spend decades reproducing like a queen bee populating a hive, and then suddenly, no more babies, and you have no practice mothering. And to ice the cake, the cameras disappear! Strange days indeed, Michelle!

[truthtalk2014]

Breaking in. Am I the only one who wants the neighbor who was supposedly defrauding by Michelle wearing a swimsuit while mowing the lawn to the point of leaving his wife be interviewed. I bet dollars to donuts,his story would be completely different.

 

I would totally watch that.  I bet that would get higher ratings than any of the wedding/birth shows.  Someone needs to find that guy!

 

ETA I'd also love to see an interview with Michelle's lesbian sister.  Or any of her family members, for that matter.

I would stay home to watch this interview OR I would buy the rag magazine that got the interviews.  

 

Sometimes I honestly wonder if there was a miscarriage.

I think people are examining MEchelle and her crazy stories with more of a microscope.  Someone mentioned that she would have no way of knowing if it was a boy or girl.  That is SO true.  I never thought of it.  At that time period, you had no idea of the sex until much later.  And clearly, if she knew the sex of *Caleb*, she would have known that she was pregnant for some time and would not have been continuing to take birth control pills every day throughout her pregnancy. 

 

I would love for someone to ask her the hard questions.  I realize that at the SODRT, things are simple, but their lies do not add up to the real world. 

Edited August 7, 2015 by truthtalk2014

[SmallTownMom]

There was a show on tonight called "Hollywood Story" that featured the Andrea Yates case.  I remember hearing about it back when it happened, but since I know of the Duggars, I couldn't help but compare.

 

The woman was mentally ill, in and out of the hospital, attempted suicide several times, and her husband was a follower of some street preacher.  They lived in a bus with a bunch of little kids for a time, but he bought a house during one of her hospital stays.  And had more kids!  They wanted to have as many as God gave them.  And the husband was a strange guy with a creepy smile. 

 

It was chilling.  Not just what happened, but the whole mentality of having all these kids, even after doctors said she shouldn't have any more because of her fragile  state.  Not taking anybody's advice, just listening to some crazy preacher and popping out kids.  She seemed like a good mother who loved her kids, but then look what happened. 

 

To me it was scary that people follow these wackadoodles.

[Happyfatchick]

A long time ago (seems like forever) we were talking about Mechelle and the bikini story, and JenCarroll commented that if we could find that neighbor now, he'd say, "There was a girl mowing the lawn in a bikini?"    

 

And there's a really basic issue with that.  Was she using a push mower, or riding?  Either way, I've seen many a female cut grass with a riding mower wearing a bikini top, but shorts on.  Because mowing the grass is a dirty, sweaty job.  The smart girls all wear shorts because your butt gets sweaty wet if you're riding.  (And your shoulders are "glistening" and your back is just - you know - an attractive sticky sweaty waterfall).   I'm sure teenagers on mowers is attractive to someone, and maybe even could spark a firey discussion at the dinner table, if a guy really obsessed about it.  On the other hand, if she's pushing a mower around the yard wearing a bikini from top to bottom - I'm saying she's just stupid.  Especially if she used a weed eater at the end.

 

but hey, we're missing the bigger point.  Apparently there was a day in the life of Michelle when she actually did a chore.  Admittedly, I wasn't a regular watcher, but I'm not sure I ever saw her do any kind of chore before.  Too bad we don't have THAT on tape.  (Maybe the neighbor got custody of the tape in the divorce!)

 

I miss JenC.  Come back to us, deary!!!

[Julia]

The Andrea Yates story broke my heart. Her husband shopped for a doctor who would bully her out of treating her post-partum psychosis, and the miserable bastard bullied her out of treatment while she had babies in the house. Then he dumped her after she was convicted.

There are people who make me wish I believed in hell. Rusty Yates is one of them.

[kokapetl]

I would totally watch that. I bet that would get higher ratings than any of the wedding/birth shows. Someone needs to find that guy!

ETA I'd also love to see an interview with Michelle's lesbian sister. Or any of her family members, for that matter.

I'd love this also. She has/had like 7 siblings, right? Did we ever see or hear from any on the show? Edited August 7, 2015 by Kokapetl

[Satchels of gold]

I think her breakdown in the laundry room was really a moment of clarity . I imagine it went something like this."Holy shit I have a bizzillion kids,what am I doing?, I don't even like kids, I'm going to bed for a year to think about this"

[BatmanBeatles]

Her bikini story sounds like the plot for American Beauty.

[Micks Picks]

We are not all of us parents here.  But we are all kids.  Would you want your mother's youthful behavior used as life lessons and examples of sin, on national tv yet?  Repeatedly?  

[Sew Sumi]

I'd love this also. She has/had like 7 siblings, right? Did we ever see or hear from any on the show?

Mechelle's oldest sister, Pam, has been on the show a couple times. We first met her in one of the old specials when she took Mechelle out to lunch while the family planned a surprise party for her birthday. She also identified herself in the family reunion episode in Ohio. Evelyn was also there, but I don't think she was captioned or spoke. I am pretty sure her brother Garrett has spoken on-camera, also during the reunion. 

 

I can see why Mechelle keeps trotting out the "bad kid" stories. It keeps HER kids in isolation and less like normal kids. Her kids can only defraud other siblings while mowing the lawn. Her kids can't flirt without being reprimanded by a sibling who keeps track of their "accountability." That's a lot of pressure for any kid, but I can also see why they seem to feel so superior to the rest of us when we finally hear them talk as courting "adults."

[magpye29]

Who the hell mows the lawn in a bikini, anyway?

[Happyfatchick]

We are not all of us parents here.  But we are all kids.  Would you want your mother's youthful behavior used as life lessons and examples of sin, on national tv yet?  Repeatedly?  

Good point, Micks!

I'm going to say this:  When my mom was a senior (they graduated in 11th grade then - because of the war, maybe??), her class went on some sort of field trip.  She wasn't able to go (along with one other classmate) because she couldn't afford it.  As a protest, the two girls stole a giant industrial can of peanut butter from the school kitchen and ate until it made them sick.  Then they put it back and hid the evidence and nobody ever questioned them.  I'm not sure that would even make yawn TV.  I don't have even one scandalous story from my mother's past - and she was REALLY vocal before she lost ability to communicate normally.

 

It wouldn't be my MOM'S past transgressions I wouldn't want blabbed over and over.  But on the flip side - if ever there were a way to capture MY teenage moments and those moments started dancing around YouTube... I'm moving to Zimbabwe and starting life over as a human lure for the tiger trapping trade.  (JK, but holy smokes, I WOULD DIIIIIIIIE.  And yes, so would my kids!!!!!)

[GeeGolly]

And what JB & M fail to understand is that youthful transgressions help shape who we are. Most kids are given the freedom to do stupid things when they are young and learn lessons from them when they suffer consequences.

 

When the Duggar kids actually act like kids their consequences are messed up, i. e. crawling off a blanket and kicking the upper bunk. In my world hitting an infant is just wrong, and I wouldn't punish the child whose bed is being kicked (Jana, jewelry box), I would punish the kicker.

Edited August 7, 2015 by GeeGolly