Suicide Squad (2016)

[MadyGirl1987]

It wasn't the worst but it wasn't the best. I thought Will Smith and Viola Davis were the best parts. I felt the others for the most part were just there or, in the case of Harley Quinn and the Joker, trying too hard to be wild and crazy. Harley Quinn, from her clothes (which looked like a Hot Topic threw up on her) to her "look how crazy I'm being" acting and quips, fell flat for me. The Joker has always underwhelmed me, for some reason(I know, that's heresy) and Leto didn't change that. While Nicholson and Ledger had their interesting moments and at least felt threatening, Leto struck me as someone "playing the Joker." That said, none of the acting was bad apart from the girl playing Deadshot's daughter who in her first scene had some cringe-worthy line readings.

In general, I am glad I saw it and would watch it again in the future. It's not as good as it was hyped up to be but I don't think it's as bad as some reviews I read make it out to be either.

[MarkHB]

12 hours ago, Rick Kitchen said:

I didn't see this when I was watching the movie, but a reviewer I just watched said that Harley's dossier says that she killed Jason Todd.

I didn't catch it fully either - it's at the bottom of the screen and there isn't really enough time to read all of it - but I think it said she was an accomplice.  I'll probably see it again next weekend and watch for that.

And I guess, if people are going to say it anyway, why the hell not?  Did someone say Hot Topic?

[GHScorpiosRule]

53 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

I didn't catch it fully either - it's at the bottom of the screen and there isn't really enough time to read all of it - but I think it said she was an accomplice.  I'll probably see it again next weekend and watch for that.

And I guess, if people are going to say it anyway, why the hell not?  Did someone say Hot Topic?

She was an accomplice in the cartoon movie Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker, where Joker "turned" Tim Drake and

it was Tim who killed Joker in this universe

 but  she didn't exist in the comics until after the animated series, which took place a few years after the comic where Jason was murdered, by the Joker, with no accomplices, so this is bullshit.

Edited August 7, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule
Because Tim Drake is not Jason Todd

[Chas411]

I just.... Didn't get this. I think it's an example of a movie that was so overhyped before it even got going that the writers, producers and everyone else just didn't feel the need to write a fitting movie. They thought that they could get away with cheesy one liners,  a soundtrack filled with "cool" songs that have been used in every other movie of the last ten years and shots of Margot Robbies ass. 

Granted I haven't a lot of comic book knowledge but can someone explain the Harley/Joker romance to me? From my understanding of the movie She was normal until she met him, she fell in love with him inexplicably and was Willing to do anything for him. He electrocuted her until she went mad and then suddenly she was no longer a normal psychiatrist but a multihair coloured psycho? Her backstory seriously confused me and I just couldn't get why she was so in love with him.

I thought Margot Robbie was funny but they overused the wackiness and her oneliners eventually stopped being funny (an improvement from Jai Courtnery who's boomerangs one liners fell flat everytime).

The Joker wasn't necessary and could have been mentioned without being shown. He and Harley would have needed an entire movie of their own for me to understand her reasons for ever being drawn to him in the first place let alone crazy enough to actually become crazy.

Cara Delavigne the less said the better. I feel it was just embarrassing all around and the her and Flaggs romance was a major weakness.

Smith made the movie for me and he did this by playing the same character her plays on all his action movies - Will Smith in an action movie. His lines weren't as over the top cringey and he   Added enough charisma to the role to rise above the awful dialogue and plots.

Edited August 7, 2016 by Chas411

[Lantern7]

Spent too much on my ticket, because I wanted to go to a comic shop nearby, where an old acquaintance from college was supposed to be. He didn't show up. On the up side, the lines at the stands were too long, so I didn't eat or drink anything. Wound up spending three dollars-plus on a bag of popcorn and a Coke Zero bottle at 7-11 because I am an addict.

The movie? Step in the right direction for DC, but it still pales to Marvel's efforts. I felt that a lot of the good stuff was spoiled in commercials and trailers. I didn't think Jared Leto deserves to be targeted any more than Jesse Eisenberg in BvS. On the other hand, Leto does pale next to Heath Ledger. To be fair, the guy died after The Dark Knight. Leto could've had his voice replaced by Mark Hamil, and it would still be a letdown.

I liked Enchantress, until she turned on the team and got the cleaned-up look. I'm not Squad-knowledgable (I have read the Ostrander-written run in trade paperback) . . . does his brother have a name? I'm going with "Enchantor." I will admit that both looks probably work better than the old-school look, where June Moone turned into a witch with the stereotypical hat. I think that was the case even a decade ago in Shadowpact.

I'm good with Will Smith as Deadshot. And Margot Robbie as Harley. I don't think Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje (thanks copy-and-paste!!) needed to see cannibal footage to get into his role as Killer Croc. I mean, Leto/Joker, I get, but Croc is mostly muscle. And Captain Boomerang should've been more of a wanker. In the Eighties book, everybody busted his ass, especially Waller. And he let Mindboggler get killed in the second issue, which explains why he tested the implants with Slipknot. And seriously . . . a rope-themed villain? Even if I wasn't familiar with comics, I would've fitted him for a red shirt.

ETA: Anybody else hitting the Funko blind box figures? I got my last two at Hot Topic, because I'm addicted to all sorts of things. I would up getting my second Harley, as well as El Diablo. I also have a Katana from last month.

[Sakura12]

I guess Jared Leto said they cut most of his scenes and most of the Harley/Joker backstory. I'm just guessing they did that to add it the Batman movie or if Harley gets her own movie. Which seems less likely now with the reviews of this movie. 

DC really needs to get their act together, stop worrying about beating Marvel and write a decent movie.  

[Jazzy24]

26 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I guess Jared Leto said they cut most of his scenes and most of the Harley/Joker backstory. I'm just guessing they did that to add it the Batman movie or if Harley gets her own movie. Which seems less likely now with the reviews of this movie. 

DC really needs to get their act together, stop worrying about beating Marvel and write a decent movie.  

I have no doubt that there will be a Harley Quinn movie(ewwww)and another Suicide Squad 2 with Ayer probably still as producer and it being rated R. 

This movie is making money and that's what matters so we will of course get more movies. 

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

I guess Jared Leto said they cut most of his scenes and most of the Harley/Joker backstory. I'm just guessing they did that to add it the Batman movie or if Harley gets her own movie. Which seems less likely now with the reviews of this movie. 

DC really needs to get their act together, stop worrying about beating Marvel and write a decent movie.  

Nah, apparently WB cut the darker/edgier stuff.  Guess those reshoots really were done to lighten the tone after BvS got panned. 

Here's a link to a list of deleted scenes, lots of Joker stuff.  

http://www.screengeek.net/2016/08/06/rumor-list-deleted-scenes-suicide-squad-reveal-much-darker-film/

Edited August 8, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Sakura12]

The last one would've been interesting to see. 

So they changed the abusive Joker/Harley relationship to making the Joker just as obsessed with her as she is with him. 

Edited August 8, 2016 by Sakura12

[Lantern7]

It should be a one-sided relationship. I've read a few trade paperbacks of the Palmiotti/Conner run on Harley Quinn. As overblown as that property can be, Harley can be a kickass solo act, with her own supporting cast.  And maybe Poison Ivy in an "are there/aren't they?" relationship.

[Advance35]

Saw it and I liked it for what it was.  I've seen worse comic book movies and not all from DC.

My one criticism is Deadshot, not so much Will Smith as the way the character was written.   Deadshot is a straight up VILLAIN, the anti-hero vibe they gave him went against everything the character has always been presented as.   The admiration society he formed with Rick Flagg?????  I think they could have gotten to the same location while writing him more true to form.  I think Deadshot is probably one of the things that suffered during the editing process since it's been said cuts were made to make the movie less dark.

I liked Jared Leto's Joker.  It was definitely different and I didn't mind it since (sacrilege) I was never in awe of HL's.   He came off VERY menacing and he was convincingly psychotic but they also made him calculating.  I liked that.  The dynamic with Harley was good too IMO.  It was an interesting choice to have the Joker just as obsessed with Harley as she is with him.   While he was possessive and fixated, he was still classic Joker in that he left her to die during their flashback with Batman.   He and MG had a nice chemistry together or I should say, an appropriate chemistry considering the characters.  I liked that moment when he clearly meant to leave Harley to die in the factory vat but then found that he couldn't do it and dove in after her.  A reviewer put it very well when they said that Harley is the one thing that humanizes the Joker and the Joker is one of the main things that dehumanizes Harley.

I thought MR was a wonderful Harley Quinn.  Off the wall, Immature, Impulsive with a vicious streak.   I liked that Harley was clearly unhinged and dangerous but you still saw why people underestimated her and even grew fond of her, specifically Deadshot, Captain Boomerang and Diablo, though that may be down to what I consider MG's likeablitiy.  Her costume actually grew on me.  Once we got the flashback, I entirely understood WHY they didn't go with her traditional costume as it did NOT translate well to the screen (and thinking about it I've never liked any live version of the costume, even the one's shown in photos at conventions).

Captain Boomerang was good for the little he was on screen.   Liked that he stayed true to character in the sense that he's a dirtbag to the core.  While he felt some camaraderie with the Squad he never seemed to soften to Flagg or Waller.   It's unfortunate he wasn't given more to do.

Diablo was definitely out of place which was appropriate.  He's the only one that's actually changed on the inside.    He was more humane.  He grew to care about the Squad members which showed he was definitely at the wrong party.  I thought Jay Hernandez did a good job.

Viola Davis was awesome as always.

[ramble]

Cara Delevingne was hideously bad. Every time she appeared, either as June or Enchantress, she took me out of the admittedly thin story. And on a shallow note her eyebrows were distracting to a huge degree  What a mistake she was  

A friend asked me tonight for a recommend/not recommend vote. I called it entertaining if not exactly coherent & recommended waiting until home release. My initial reaction was that if felt like a series of storyboarded music videos loosely linked together. I didn't love it, but didn't hate it. I guess I'd say a lukewarm like. 

[MarkHB]

6 hours ago, Chas411 said:

Granted I haven't a lot of comic book knowledge but can someone explain the Harley/Joker romance to me?

She first appeared in Batman: The Animated Series in the early 90's, voiced by Arleen Sorkin, and later was given a backstory by Paul Dini in a comic called "Mad Love."  Essentially, she was a young psychiatrist at Arkham Asylum who thought she could cure the Joker, but he got into her head instead and she fell head-over-heels crazy in love with him.  But, originally at least, he was a complete psychopath who used her (not necessarily for sex) and treated her like shit.  I think they pared back some of the full-on abusiveness of their relationship because a) they don't want to break the two of them up yet, and b) they want to be able to do more with the character and further emphasizing the victim aspect of their ongoing relationship (even given that she's with a guy who scrambled her brains with shock therapy) would hurt that.

Apparently there was a lot left on the cutting room floor in this one; Leto actually seems hurt by it.  I know there was one scene where Harleen chased Joker down on a motorcycle; Margot even did ride and skid-stop herself.

[darkestboy]

The hell with the critics, I enjoyed the hell out of this one. It's no cinematic masterpiece and neither is it pretending to be. It's mindless, chaotic fun and that isn't a bad thing.

I do agree that there was some editing/pacing problems and Enchantress could've been a far better villain than she was but still a bit of an improvement on the likes of Lex and Doomsday from Batman V. Superman.

Flagg was bland and boring and Slipknot wasn't around long enough to care about him. Found both Croc and Boomerang amusing though and I liked Katana in general.

The highlights though were Harley, Deadshot, Waller and El Diablo. The best written and fleshed out characters with Robbie, Smith, Davis and Hernadez giving the best performances.

I know Tumblr feminists won't like Harley's depiction here but truthfully it wasn't anywhere near as problematic as they might think it is. I do think though they underplayed the darker sides of her relationship with the Joker though.

As for Leto, he was okay in the role. Not revolutionary but not terrible either. I think we need to see him in another movie in a bigger role before we can truly form an impression on his Joker to be honest.

Loved all the little easter eggs and future set ups in this movie as well.

[Spartan Girl]

11 hours ago, MarkHB said:

Apparently there was a lot left on the cutting room floor in this one; Leto actually seems hurt by it.  I know there was one scene where Harleen chased Joker down on a motorcycle; Margot even did ride and skid-stop herself.

Maybe they'll wind up on the DVD.  I'm at least interested to see the motorcycle chase.

[Jediknight]

I really enjoyed it.

Yeah, the standouts were Deadshot, Harley, Waller, and Diablo.  I really wish Will Smith's Deadshot and Michael Rowe's Deadshot could have crossed paths, because both were fantastic.  It seems like with everything that was shown in this movie, it's building to Harley ending Joker in the DCCU by putting a bullet in his brain.  She'll come the realization that she will never have a normal life with Joker, he's an abuser, and through the Squad she's got friends and true companions, which will allow her to see everything.

Speaking of Joker, Jared Leto wasn't even the best live action Joker we've seen in the past 2 years.  He's got nothing on Cameron Monaghan, it's too bad he couldn't have gotten this role and been full on Joker.

[Dirtybubble]

15 hours ago, MarkHB said:

She first appeared in Batman: The Animated Series in the early 90's, voiced by Arleen Sorkin, and later was given a backstory by Paul Dini in a comic called "Mad Love."  Essentially, she was a young psychiatrist at Arkham Asylum who thought she could cure the Joker, but he got into her head instead and she fell head-over-heels crazy in love with him.  But, originally at least, he was a complete psychopath who used her (not necessarily for sex) and treated her like shit.  I think they pared back some of the full-on abusiveness of their relationship because a) they don't want to break the two of them up yet, and b) they want to be able to do more with the character and further emphasizing the victim aspect of their ongoing relationship (even given that she's with a guy who scrambled her brains with shock therapy) would hurt that.

Apparently there was a lot left on the cutting room floor in this one; Leto actually seems hurt by it.  I know there was one scene where Harleen chased Joker down on a motorcycle; Margot even did ride and skid-stop herself.

Thank U for this!  I too was a bit confused by the Mr. J/Harley love story.  I kinda blame the editing for it.  It all seems so rushed and hacked up a bit.  First scene they are talking, him in a straight jacket, and she shows him the stuffed animal (wth?) then she's being tortured by him, then she's jumping into a vat of acid and all of that in a span of 3 minutes.  Good lawd that was a rushed story line.  And it felt so important to me.  One reviewer said DC should have done an entire Mr. J/Harley movie and ITA!  There is enough material there to work with.

Still I really enjoyed the movie!  Yeah it had it's problems but as long as you don't think about it too much it's fun.  Everybody was great!  I think it's unfair to compared this Joker with Ledger's Joker.  Different scenario's all together--Ledger was playing off of Batman while Jared's Joker was in a relationship with Harley.  So in that sense Jared did great, loved his over the top gangster style.  I don't wanna see an imitation of what Ledger did, he did his perfectly and lets leave it at that.

[Sakura12]

I think it was smart to have Leto's Joker tied to Harley. That makes him different than any previous movie Joker. He has a partner and according to this movie someone he sort of cares about. I don't think Leto is a strong enough presence to carry over to the Batman movie alone, he'll need Harley. Giving Batman two crazies he'll have to deal with along with whatever world ending villain they will most likely throw in there. He was one of the weaker links in the movie.

However I actually liked the relationship that grew between Deadshot and Harley more than that rushed backstory they gave Harley/Joker. 

[millennium]

23 hours ago, MarkHB said:

She first appeared in Batman: The Animated Series in the early 90's, voiced by Arleen Sorkin, and later was given a backstory by Paul Dini in a comic called "Mad Love." 

A truly mediocre comic.   I picked it up last year because I read so many raves about it.   After the first read I thought maybe I missed something.   The second time around I realized it wasn't me.  I can only conclude that audience standards have deteriorated drastically in the last couple decades.

I wish Harley Quinn never happened.   The Joker never needed a sidekick or partner.   He's the goddamn Joker.   I also found the Harley character extremely irritating on the animated series.

She did account for a humorous moment in Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker though.

[Chas411]

Thanks everyone for providing all the background info on Harley and Harley/Joker for me. The movie and all the editing makes a complete hack of the relationship. 

So was Harley just a regular intelligent woman until she met the joker? That's the part I just don't understand. Did she already act crazy or have some sort of background explaining why she so willingly changed from good to bad for him..

[Sakura12]

Harley's had a couple different backstories, mostly she was a gymnast with an interest in how the criminal mind works. She studied psychiatry in college and got a job interning at Arkham Asylum where she met the Joker and fell in love with him after he manipulated her with a sob story about his life. Harley was a loner without friends, so it was easy for the Joker to get through to her. He escapes Arkham with her help and later kidnaps her and tortures her driving her insane. In some stories she jumps into the vat of chemicals that bleached his skin, like she did in this movie. They rushed through a lot of that but we saw some clips of the torture.

More recently Harley is not as tied to Joker, she has her own line of comics, she has her friends with benefits relationship with Poison Ivy, she's part of the Suicide Squad and Sirens (her, Poison Ivy and Catwoman). That's the one I'd like to see for a Harley movie.  She's become more of an Anti-Hero without the Joker manipulating her. 

I really wish they showed Harley's intelligence and not just her sex appeal in this movie. I'd like to see her use her psychiatry training to play mind games with people. When she was in Arkham they said she had to get new guards all the time because she messed with them. Where was that Harley? But I guess I can't expect much for a comic book adaption still aimed at men. 

Edited August 9, 2016 by Sakura12

[Advance35]

Quote

So was Harley just a regular intelligent woman until she met the joker? That's the part I just don't understand. Did she already act crazy or have some sort of background explaining why she so willingly changed from good to bad for him..

Like Batman said "she was no angel."  In her original origin story, it was revealed that she really didn't have an aptitude for psychiatry and that she slept with her Professor to get the necessary grades.  I thought she seemed like an everyday girl who liked to cut corners when she could.  Arkham was supposed to be a stepping stone to fame for her.  She wasn't so eager beaver to help the inmates, she thought they could turn her into a high profile Dr. Phil type.  She was in over her head and the rest is her tragic history.

Quote

I really wish they showed Harley's intelligence and not just her sex appeal in this movie. I'd like to see her use her psychiatry training to play mind games with people.

I feel like those scenes were probably shot because when they were in the Bar, after Harley went in on Diablo about what he did to his family, Captain  Bommerang said "Why is it always a knife fight whenever you open your mouth." And went on about how she's amazing on the outside and ugly on the inside.

[Sakura12]

53 minutes ago, Advance35 said:

I feel like those scenes were probably shot because when they were in the Bar, after Harley went in on Diablo about what he did to his family, Captain  Bommerang said "Why is it always a knife fight whenever you open your mouth." And went on about how she's amazing on the outside and ugly on the inside.

I noticed they cut out the scene from the trailer where Harley was asking everyone what they wanted to drink where Diablo said water and she said smart choice or something. So that scene was probably longer. 

[Chas411]

The worst part about the Joker wasn't the actual performance because had they actually not cut half his scenes then maybe his role wouldn't have felt so forced into the movie but moreso Leto just didn't seem to be embracing the fun side of the franchise. I thought the other cast members at least tried to have fun with their parts whereas I always felt Leto was really taking it all seriously and seeing a chance to genuinely do the kind of depiction that Ledger accomplished.

With the exception of The fire guy who's just depressing all the way through he's the only character and actor who I felt wasn't having fun. He believed the hype surrounding the movie and probably wasn't prepared for it to be a non critical success.

[BatmanBeatles]

2 hours ago, Advance35 said:

Like Batman said "she was no angel."  In her original origin story, it was revealed that she really didn't have an aptitude for psychiatry and that she slept with her Professor to get the necessary grades.  I thought she seemed like an everyday girl who liked to cut corners when she could.  Arkham was supposed to be a stepping stone to fame for her.  She wasn't so eager beaver to help the inmates, she thought they could turn her into a high profile Dr. Phil type.  She was in over her head and the rest is her tragic history.

In one cartoon, Harley got her degree from an online degree mill and hosted a talk show.

[PepSinger]

Can I just say that I found it ridiculous that I was supposed to sympathize with the El Diablo character? You MURDERED your wife and kids; you didn't "lose" them. What the actual fuck?

[dmeets]

Well, Harley did call him out on that. I can't remember for sure though - did he intentionally murder them, or does fire just erupt from him when he's pissed off? I figured given his powers, he doesn't have the luxury of simply getting into a screaming match like a normal angry person. Instead, he essentially becomes a volcano. Which isn't to say he's a nice guy or anything. After all, he was a criminal arsonist. So while I'm not sure I can say I sympathized with him, I did like him the most of the squad (Katana and Killer Croc were nonoffensive, but were also pretty much pointless), and was bummed that he was killed off. I'm actually surprised they bothered to keep in backstory for anyone who wasn't Harley Quinn or Will Smith.

[Proclone]

On 8/4/2016 at 10:22 PM, SeanC said:

To elaborate on my earlier statements, specific points:

- The structure of this movie is awful. Why does Deadshot have three different introductory scenes? Why are there two different scenes of Waller pitching the creation of Task Force X, making basically the same argument, and both scenes come right after each other? Why does it take almost a full hour to even get the Squad in the same room? It's not like we spent that time establishing them as individuals, either.

- The Enchantress deserves her own entry detailing how much all this sucks. The relationship between Rick Flag and June Moon is handled with all the finesse of Katara's exposition about Sokka and Yue in The Last Airbender, and then we're somehow supposed to care at the end of the movie that she's still alive? Why? Why did they decide that the first mission of a gritty, mostly street-level team should be to fight some kind of revived Mayan god? Why did Waller have that one other statuette in her house, that just happened to contain Incubus? Why did nobody realize that poor Cara Delevingne looks absolutely ridiculous gyrating around like she's asked to do for most of the movie?

I'll preface this by saying, by in large I enjoyed the movie, but I do absolutely agree with you and these points.  The editing of this movie, especially in the beginning is really atrocious.  The movie should have opened (and according to a couple things I've read was intended to open) on June finding the idol and becoming the Enchantress.  Then it could have cut to Waller proposing Project X and introducing the characters of the Suicide Squad.  Deadshot didn't really as much introduction as he got.  He's a hit man who's one weakness is his daughter.  Not a ground breaking character backstory.  Didn't really need that much time for the audience to understand who he is.   That time could have been used to introduce other characters. Show Katana's husband being murdered so I might actually care when she cries over her sword speaking to him for example.  And with Harley Quinn they really have should have gone in one of two ways, fully explain her backstory and how she because Harley Quinn (including exactly what the Joker did to her) or don't explain her backstory at all and let her be like the Joker, a force of nature who needs no backstory.  I'd prefer the former but no backstory would have preferable to the badly edited confusing backstory we got.

Harley Quinn brings me to my biggest problem with the movie-her relationship with the Joker, or rather his relationship with her.  To be fair I've only ever read the Dark Night Returns (and it was for a college class), in terms of the comics, but from what I understand the Joker is incapable of loving anything except chaos.  He doesn't love Harley (which this movie implied he did), I can buy that he feels she is his belonging and that's why he wanted her back but not that he actually loved her.  Apparently they cut out a lot of their scenes including the ones that show how screwed up and abusive their relationship is, which is a pity. It actually would have made her more sympathetic.  It also would have made her dislike of Boomerang (much that was also apparently cut) and her anger at what Diablo did to his family make more sense.  She can't be angry at the Joker he's her "Puddin" but she does feel angry about what's been done to her.  It also kind of make her bonding with Deadshot more meaningful too. He might be a cold blooded killer but he treats her with respect. DC needs to realize there is time and place for darkness.  Man of Steel was not the place (I haven't seen BVS, so I won't comment on it).  A movie about a bunch of villains, could have been quite dark and still worked, especially if they kept it darkly comic. 

And I totally agree with you that Cara Delevingne looked absolutely ridiculous as the Enchantress most of the movie.  I think they were going for otherworldly in her movements, but at for me it looked more like a five year old doing the pee-pee dance than all powerful goddess. 

Edited August 9, 2016 by Proclone
adding a thought

[Lantern7]

Honest Game Trailer for Arkham City. "Make sure to savor Mark Hamil's excellent Joker while you still can, because from here on out, it's just gonna be Jared Leto doing Jim Carrey doing Good Charlotte." That's a bit harsh.

[darkestboy]

I've seen some people wish the Joker was the main antagonist but I'm really glad he wasn't.

Enchantress needed more beefing up and a coherent scheme but overall, she did mostly work as the main villain of the piece.

[PepSinger]

1 minute ago, darkestboy said:

Enchantress needed more beefing up and a coherent scheme but overall, she did mostly work as the main villain of the piece.

Enchantress needed a better fucking actor. Dear God, Cara is terrible.

[Dirtybubble]

20 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

Enchantress needed a better fucking actor. Dear God, Cara is terrible.

Enh I didn't mind her.  All though I didn't understand that dancing, wavy arm bit she was doing when she got her heart back....*shrug*  Her reasoning didn't make a lot of sense to me (people worship machines so I'll make a machine....huh?) Is that correct or did I miss something?  I just figured the movie needed a universal baddie and she provided it. 

 

18 hours ago, Proclone said:

Harley Quinn brings me to my biggest problem with the movie-her relationship with the Joker, or rather his relationship with her.  To be fair I've only ever read the Dark Night Returns (and it was for a college class), in terms of the comics, but from what I understand the Joker is incapable of loving anything except chaos.  He doesn't love Harley (which this movie implied he did), I can buy that he feels she is his belonging and that's why he wanted her back but not that he actually loved her.  Apparently they cut out a lot of their scenes including the ones that show how screwed up and abusive their relationship is, which is a pity. It actually would have made her more sympathetic.  It also would have made her dislike of Boomerang (much that was also apparently cut) and her anger at what Diablo did to his family make more sense.  She can't be angry at the Joker he's her "Puddin" but she does feel angry about what's been done to her.  It also kind of make her bonding with Deadshot more meaningful too. He might be a cold blooded killer but he treats her with respect. DC needs to realize there is time and place for darkness.  Man of Steel was not the place (I haven't seen BVS, so I won't comment on it).  A movie about a bunch of villains, could have been quite dark and still worked, especially if they kept it darkly comic. 

I wish they had kept those extra scenes with Mr. J and Harlee in the movie as well.  If I had to take a wild guess I would say they were cut because maybe they were afraid of getting negative backlash from women's organizations about having a male character abusing a female character.  *shrug*  And too keep it in a PG-13 frame of mind a 2 crazy kids love story is easier to sell than an abusive one.

 

EDIT:  OMG I forgot something--didn't they have a scene in the movie where someone hit/punch Harlee...?  I can't remember which character it was but they something to the effect of she had it coming?  Well gosh if they can show that why couldn't they show a more complex Mr. J/Harlee relationship?  Is the length of the movie really that much of an issue?

[MarkHB]

29 minutes ago, Dirtybubble said:

OMG I forgot something--didn't they have a scene in the movie where someone hit/punch Harlee...?  I can't remember which character it was but they something to the effect of she had it coming?  Well gosh if they can show that why couldn't they show a more complex Mr. J/Harlee relationship?

Batman dove into the water to rescue her, she came to and attacked him, he punched her in the face and knocked her out... all underwater.

 

Spoilery interview with David Ayer.... talks about the various cuts, etc.

[Spartan Girl]

14 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Honest Game Trailer for Arkham City. "Make sure to savor Mark Hamil's excellent Joker while you still can, because from here on out, it's just gonna be Jared Leto doing Jim Carrey doing Good Charlotte." That's a bit harsh.

I already can't wait for the Honest Trailer for Suicide Squad.

[coppersin]

So when Waller shot her people, what exactly did they not have clearance for? They had been watching this mess go down live, so it's not like anything new had happened that was "need to know." Was she planning to kill them all along?

I like Kinneman and enjoyed Flag when he was in soldier mode, but the Flag/Moon relationship was so damned flat. It has gotta suck when you're outromanced by the Joker.

[MarkHB]

1 hour ago, coppersin said:

So when Waller shot her people, what exactly did they not have clearance for? They had been watching this mess go down live, so it's not like anything new had happened that was "need to know." Was she planning to kill them all along?

Pretty much, I think; she was her own cleaner.  The whole mess was on her head since she was the one who unleashed the Enchantress on Midway, not realizing that the entity she was sending her after was her brother and that he would be able to act as a mystical artificial heart for her, so she had to minimize the damage (to herself) by eliminating unnecessary loose ends under the cover of "security clearances".

[arc]

9 hours ago, darkestboy said:

I've seen some people wish the Joker was the main antagonist but I'm really glad he wasn't.

Enchantress needed more beefing up and a coherent scheme but overall, she did mostly work as the main villain of the piece.

The thing about the hypothetical scenario of having the Joker as main antagonist is that the Suicide Squad - a team of relatively unpowered "street-level" supervillains - would be more plausible going up against him than against, say, a literal god. Or even Waller's mission statement in the movie, to assemble a team to go up against the next Superman, if he turns out bad. What the hell is Captain Boomerang supposed to do against an evil Superman? (more about that from ComicsAlliance)

Deadshot is quasi-superpowered in that he's a better shot than most anyone, Katana's soul-sucking sword is not actually more powerful than a regular sword as far as we can tell. Killer Croc's superhuman strength and durability aren't even used in the film, so it's just that Deadshot is good with guns and Diablo actually has superpowers. This is a team that could quite plausibly go up against a clown gangster. Against an evil Superman? Pssh.

Also, Enchantress being the main villain makes Waller look more than a little incompetent, which is a shame because ruthlessness without competence is not a good look. Waller enslaved an evil goddess, kept her heart in a secure (?) suitcase, then kept the brother figurine thing not secure. Whyyyyyyyyyyyyy. So, so dumb.

(ultimately these things are probably partly due to the studio's heavy-handed meddling in the edit phase and partly due to the studio mandating a release date so fixed that Ayer only had six weeks to write the film, but whatever caused the problems, they're still problems in the finished film.)

[darkestboy]

I just think the role the Joker had here was fine by me. He was here to accommodate Harley's back story and it worked. He'll undoubtedly get a more expanded role in other movies though.

[Chas411]

Are Boomerang and the sword lady a thing in the comics or was his interest in her tacked on just to try get some shipper interest... Or for comic value. 

 

Either way it failed on all accounts. I felt bad for Jai Courtney as I could tell he was really trying to make the role work but everything about it fell flat. He was a glorified extra in a role that was probably supposed to be a standout for him.

[MarkHB]

Quote

Are Boomerang and the sword lady a thing in the comics or was his interest in her tacked on just to try get some shipper interest... Or for comic value.

Comic value. He was also trying to put some moves on the female guard outside his cell; that didn't work, either. He's basically a complete ass in the comics and I thought they captured that aspect well.

[Lantern7]

This made me laugh. Hard. Shit like that is why I try to see genre movies ASAP. Seriously, the band would have proved more effective.

Speaking of Waller . . . has there been major criticism that Viola Davis didn't look like a "Wall"?

[Kromm]

Digital Spy asks: Suicide Squad: Why the hell does Batman snog Harley Quinn? Directly after he's punched her in the face.

[JessePinkman]

I hate when the bigger issues in a movie get derailed by stupidity like this. He was clearly trying to resuscitate her, she was faking it and kissed him.

Yes, they got the mechanics and purpose of CPR wrong. But they were hardly trying to show Batmam assaulting an unconscious Harley. How silly

[darkestboy]

I'm so sick of this now. Why are certain critics so willfully obtuse? Harley attempts to stab Batman, he knocks her out. He then gave her CPR. Its clearly spelled out in the scene itself. Articles like that are irresponsible, click baiting, faux outrage nonsense.

[Kromm]

2 hours ago, JessePinkman said:

I hate when the bigger issues in a movie get derailed by stupidity like this. He was clearly trying to resuscitate her, she was faking it and kissed him.

Yes, they got the mechanics and purpose of CPR wrong. But they were hardly trying to show Batmam assaulting an unconscious Harley. How silly

I dunno. Perhaps they have an agenda writing that, but is anyone out there really dim enough to think CPR is for when you knock someone unconscious? That's kind of a huge gimmee.

[Sakura12]

He knocked her out underwater, she faked being "dead", Batman begrudgingly started to give her mouth to mouth, then she made out with him. That was very straight forward to me. 

I have no doubt the whole purpose of that was to have Batman and Harley kiss. 

Edited August 12, 2016 by Sakura12

[JessePinkman]

1 hour ago, Kromm said:

I dunno. Perhaps they have an agenda writing that, but is anyone out there really dim enough to think CPR is for when you knock someone unconscious? That's kind of a huge gimmee.

Yes, the makers of this film unfortunately. They repeatedly went for the cool (Harley pretending to be passed out, Bats knocking her out) and funny (Harley again pretending to be passed out, Harley kissing Bats) over logic.

[MarkHB]

It wasn't even CPR, was it?  I thought it was just mouth-to-mouth.

[methodwriter85]

On 8/10/2016 at 10:46 AM, PepSinger said:

Enchantress needed a better fucking actor. Dear God, Cara is terrible.

Cara can pull off a spirited 18-year old high school girl who is ultimately flighty and irresponsible despite how fun she seems at first.

An archaeologist doctorate who dabbles as a Mayan Goddess? Absolutely not.

Anyway, since my expectations were bottom-cellar, I thought this was okay. Certainly not Deadpool, but I didn't feel the urge to walk out like I did during Batman vs. Superman.

They really should cool it on the excessive soundtrack, though. I love popular music soundtracks, but this was overkill. When we got to Eminem I just wanted to roll my eyes. ("Til I Collapse" would have been a better choice in any event, and far less obvious.)

[darkestboy]

I actually liked that Eminem song during that scene and Gangsta during the chemical wedding scene as well.