S05.E09: A Moorland Holiday (Christmas Special)

[shipperx]

I don't spend much time wondering where Violets old nurse made broth. The whole thing was written by a guy whose knowledge of the matter is that soup is delivered by caterers. Where it was before that is a mystery.

Edited March 4, 2015 by shipperx

[RedHawk]

And it's a strong signal that Merton himself isn't a great catch - he is at least in part responsible for how they turned out, and he obviously didn't do a very good job.

 

 

Not disagreeing as they should have learned better manners at home, but pointing out, both boys were probably shipped off to boarding school around age 9 or 10. Also, there are those who think the Downton family are ridiculously progressive and forward-thinking for the times (accepting of a gay valet, didn't explode when Rose dated a black man, etc.). On the other side are the Merton boys, who probably are more representative of aristocratic young men of their time. They think Isobel is middle class and thus could not possibly inhabit their mother's role as Lady of the Manor. Plenty of others in their position would have agreed.

Edited March 3, 2015 by RedHawk

[Almost 3000]

The problem is that broth often tastes really strangely nasty or just hopelessly bland and greasy once you remove all the vegetables and meat you added and/or strained it through cheesecloth. Beef broth is much harder than chicken. Yes, better to start with a liter of the rich broth from the big house. Serious cookbook recipes for "broth" involve pounds of bone and big pots.  eta: IOW, Soup is easier to make than broth 

Ok, I give in. I've never made beef broth but make turkey stock/broth at least once a year using the method I noted and its always yummy. I guess beef is more touchy. Anyway, I liked the idea of a light story between the staff but the execution was rather silly and didn't make sense. 

[Andorra]

The depression was world wide.  Things may not be better at Downton.

 

The landowners in England weren't that affected though, because most of their wealth was invested in land and art and not in stocks.

[ShadowFacts]

Not disagreeing as they should have learned better manners at home, but pointing out, both boys were probably shipped off to boarding school around age 9 or 10. Also, there are those who think the Downton family are ridiculously progressive and forward-thinking for the times (accepting of a gay valet, didn't explode when Rose dated a black man, etc.). On the other side are the Merton boys, who probably are more representative of aristocratic young men of their time. They think Isobel is middle class and thus could not possibly inhabit their mother's role as Lady of the Manor. Plenty of others in their position would have agreed.

I think Isobel dodged a bullet here.  Those nearly middle-aged sons of Merton may be more representative of the men of their class of their time, but at least one of them is beyond arrogant, he's blatantly rude and also previously altered Tom's drink, didn't he?  Their father's feelings are of no importance to them, they would never be decent or polite or learn to accept Isobel and I don't know how much of a prize Lord Merton is either.  Didn't he mention in this episode that he didn't treat his wife very well?  Isobel then said she probably didn't treat him well, either, or words to that effect.  I think that tidbit, and his sons' bad attitudes are signs that interpersonal relationships are problematic for this family and Isobel is wise to steer clear.  Of course, the same can be said about some of the Crawleys -- they put the fun in dysfunctional.

[Clanstarling]

I very much enjoyed Violet's wink and a nudge that Kuragin wasn't the only flirtation - just the most risky. Though I'm not sure I'd agree with her statement that she was an Edwardian (1901 - 1910), which began only 20 years earlier than the current timeframe. Her almost elopement with Kuragin was most definitely in the Victorian era.

Edited March 3, 2015 by clanstarling

[ennui]

The depression was world wide.  Things may not be better at Downton.

Aside from the dust bowl, I think that people on farms generally survived a little better. At least there was food. I know my own family survived well enough on the farm, and fed a lot of vagabonds.

[Avaleigh]

I very much enjoyed Violet's wink and a nudge that Kuragin wasn't the only flirtation - just the most risky. Though I'm not sure I'd agree with her statement that she was an Edwardian (1901 - 1910), which began only 20 years earlier than the current timeframe. Her almost elopement with Kuragin was most definitely in the Victorian era.

I asked about this in an earlier post and wondered if Violet was basically saying that she was part of Edward "Bertie's" fast set back when he was still the Prince of Wales.

[Hanahope]

I mean, the creepy Green was dead not long after that luncheon when Mary asked Tony to get rid of Green (w/o giving any reason why).

 

 

Actually, Gillingham couldn't have done it, because, if I have my timeline right, supposedly Greene was killed while Mary and Gillingham were lunching in London (when Mary told Gillingham to get rid of Greene), because that is the only time Anna was supposedly free and unsupervised.  If Green was killed after the lunch (by Gillingham), then Mary would have been with Anna riding back to Downton for the church charity picnic the following day, therefore giving Anna an alibi.

[jschoolgirl]

Aside from the dust bowl, I think that people on farms generally survived a little better. At least there was food. I know my own family survived well enough on the farm, and fed a lot of vagabonds.

But taxes have to be paid, as I know from my Depression-era farm parents. Is the abbey taxed separately from the rest of the estate?

[Cranston]

Does anyone know what happens to those absolutely gorgeous outfits the Downton Abbey women wear?  Are they for sale someplace?  Set aside to be in a Downton Abbey Museum one day? 

 

While I'm questioning...anybody know who that was who drove the car Mary's almost new boyfriend left in?

Edited March 3, 2015 by Cranston

[millennium]

Actually that time gap/leap drove me crazy: How long was it between Isobel getting that letter and her final refusal to Merton? Months? (Robert was reportedly on-the-wagon for months). It was part of why I thought Goode would show up for Christmas -- all that hunting at the beginning of the "special" was months before the Christmas celebration at the end.  

 

The leap was pretty abrupt.   All that was missing was an earthquake and a bright light to signify that the characters had moved through time.    I only caught it when Cora remarked that Robert hadn't touched a drop in months.    It's like the writers suddenly remembered it was a Christmas special and thought perhaps this year they ought to wrap up with something more seasonal than a fatal car wreck. 

[DeepRunner]

I would disagree.  I think you can behave "appropriately," and still have secrets you don't want exposed to a public audience.  Moreover, while obviously Lord Sinderby is something of a hypocrite for throwing a fit over the morality of Rose's parents divorcing, it doesn't mean that his mistress or his child deserve the same kind of public shaming that he might.  

 

 

 

Agree @TXhorns. Thomas the Vampire was slutshaming Sinderby and involving an innocent woman and child in the process. For all the love Thomas gets for using his evil powers for good, he is still evil. I think he is an essential character, but he has always, always, ALWAYS been able to wrangle his way out of trouble, primarily because he is The Downstairs Pet of The Downton Powers. Of course, he was let off the hook when he should have had to face an incredibly-uncomfortable moment in front of Robert and Sinderby, with Stowell as chief inquisitor.

[Fiddler1]

 

Does anyone know what happens to those absolutely gorgeous outfits the Downton Abbey women wear?  Are they for sale someplace?  Set aside to be in a Downton Abbey Museum one day?

This is pretty interesting: http://recycledmoviecostumes.tumblr.com/?og=1  Many of these costumes have been used in other, older movies and programs.  Downton turns up in quite a few of the examples

[mojito]

Sorry if I'm repeating what has already been said. I only have but so much time to read all the other comments.

 

Watching this episode, I was stunned by all the physical restraint of these characters. So many moments when normal 2015 Americans (I only state Americans since I've not been to the UK) would kiss or hug or touch. Robert's moment with Edith was a hug moment. He grabbed her shoulders. Isobel's squeeze says good night, and I don't think he even touched her. Anna referred to her husband as "Mr. Bates". Oh my goodness, all this restraint was almost painful.

 

I'm a pretty neutral viewer, but Mary has been turned into a horrible woman. What a snoot. I hope in the end, Edith gets all that she wants and Mary's left alone with her snarkiness. I resent that the writers have turned me against Mary.

 

Isobel and Violet's moments are the best. And I agree with speculation that Violet was just faking her compliments to Denker. It almost seemed obvious since she passed on having a helping of the stuff. These two seem to amuse Violet, and what with the prospect of losing Isobel, she had to have some entertainment.

 

Robert's turned into a good egg again these last few episodes, and I found myself enjoying watching Thomas twirl his mustache (yeah, I know he doesn't really have one). What is Mrs. Hughes' first name? What happened to her husband?

[AZChristian]

Mrs. Hughes' first name is Elsie.

 

She's never been married.  I think I read somewhere that head housekeepers were always referred to as "Mrs." regardless of marital status.

[photo fox]

But if next season's DA takes place 4 years down the road and we don't hear anything about who murdered Green...that's going to make JF look a bit inept as a storyteller.

If Greene is never mentioned again, I will hoist JF upon my shoulders and carry him down the street under a flurry of ticker tape. It may be inept storytelling to drop such a major plot, but I. don't. care. lol

 

 

Watching this episode, I was stunned by all the physical restraint of these characters. So many moments when normal 2015 Americans (I only state Americans since I've not been to the UK) would kiss or hug or touch. Robert's moment with Edith was a hug moment.

I thought the same! It seemed really unnatural for him to not offer her any physical comfort. But then, I'm a hugger. I can't see someone in the throws of that kind of emotion and not pat their hand or something.

What is Mrs. Hughes' first name? What happened to her husband?

I believe she's Elsie? As for her husband, I would guess that she never had one (nor Mrs. Patmore, either). The habit of the time was to call the housekeeper and the cook both "Mrs.", even though they'd likely never been married.

[MaryHedwig]

What is Mrs. Hughes' first name? What happened to her husband?

I don't think in those days you had to have a husband to be called Mrs.  I think it was just a term of respect for women of a certain age, like Mrs. Patmore.

[Cranston]

Yes, I think the Mrs in Mrs. Hughes was just a matter of curtesy at that time.  It still is, actually, in many cultures.  I think the joining of Carson and Hughes has to be the lovliest moment in this entire season, for this old lady anyway! 

 

I've always been a bit of a Robert fan.  He is what is because he is what he is in that particular era.  But he has such a good heart, he means so well most of the time. When you age it's hard to let go of the ways you grew up with, the morals and absolutes drilled into you from childhood.  Actually, Robert has come a long, long way.

[Tetraneutron]

Of course, he was let off the hook when he should have had to face an incredibly-uncomfortable moment in front of Robert and Sinderby, with Stowell as chief inquisitor.

Why? Sinderby has no idea that Thomas had anything to do with it, and it wouldn't occur to anybody that a member of the Downton staff, who doesn't know these people at all, has only met them once or twice, could possibly orchestrate something like this. The only person who knows is Stowell, and him telling on Thomas doesn't make him look any better. He'd be admitting he gets drunk at work, on wine belonging to the Sinderbys, and blabs his boss's deepest secrets (secrets he shouldn't know) to whoever's around. That's not exactly exonerating. Sure, Stowell could go after him in private, but Rose made it pretty clear that if he steps out of line she will bring him down.

 

Besides, of the people who might even had an inkling Thomas was behind this (Rose and Mary) why would they be mad at Thomas at all? The whole thing resulted in Stowell treating Tom Branson like a human being, and that was their end goal. From their POV, it all worked out. Tom is treated kindly, Lord Sinderby stops being a dick, and the only person who's been hurt is a mean snob, who's heavily implied to be an anti-Semite as well. If they even knew it was Thomas at all.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Obviously

[Kohola3]

I know I am a minority of 2 or 3 but I can't get into the Mrs. Hughes/Mr. Carson match. I love Mrs. Hughes dearly (athough Carson gets on my nerves at times) and I think they are the best of comrades, having worked together and weathered a lot of storms at Downton.  But I just don't see them as having any romantic vibe at all.  Good friends who know each other inside and out but not lovers.  

[majormama]

I seem to remember a scene early in Season 1 when a new staff member was being trained, someone explaining that the most senior staff (house keeper, cook, and butler) were called Mr Surname and Mrs Surname. Valets and lady's maids would either be Mr/Mrs Surname or just Surname, and lower staff (footmen, etc) went by first name only. It was rare for household staff to be married even at this time, especially the women; they'd leave service to keep their own house if they chose to marry. When Anna and John got married, there was some talk (I think when they visited another estate?) where someone asked if it was confusing to be called Bates and Bates, and Anna said she still went by her first name. It was also a big deal for Thomas to be upgraded to Mr Barrow, and he'd correct anyone who slipped.

Edited March 4, 2015 by majormama

[Portia]

Also, I'm thinking that the guy Edith was interested in will turn out also to be a "Marigold."  Like maybe he's the illegitimate son of the guy the Sinderbys were renting Brancaster Castle from

 

Oooh, that's an interesting prediction!   

So glad I am not the only one who thinks this! She is the same size as George and Sybbie even though she is supposed to be younger.  In the nursery she is still in a crib while her cousins are in beds.  I know it is difficult to find very young actors and actresses, but surely they could have found someone a little more lively.  She reminds me of a child with developmental delays.

Funny you should say that, because the little actress who plays Marigold is the very image of a child at my church who is sweet as can be but who has a genetic disorder that has caused developmental delays.

I don't like to brag, but I totally diagnosed Donk's ulcer.

My husband and I argued over whether Isobel should have rejected the proposal. For me it came down to the fact that she would likely outlive Dickie. He might be able to shield her a bit from the sons while he was still kicking, but if he fell ill or died, those asshats could realllllly make her life miserable.

I am really hoping we get to see Mr. Carson and Mrs. Hughes married, including the tasteful but unmistakable implication that they have a union that is warm, romantic, and physical. I won't hold my breath, though.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Portia

[Athena]

Watching this episode, I was stunned by all the physical restraint of these characters. So many moments when normal 2015 Americans (I only state Americans since I've not been to the UK) would kiss or hug or touch. Robert's moment with Edith was a hug moment. He grabbed her shoulders. Isobel's squeeze says good night, and I don't think he even touched her. Anna referred to her husband as "Mr. Bates". Oh my goodness, all this restraint was almost painful.

 

 

I thought the same! It seemed really unnatural for him to not offer her any physical comfort. But then, I'm a hugger. I can't see someone in the throws of that kind of emotion and not pat their hand or something.

 

 

This sort of physical restraint is very cultural. Aside from the fact the show is set in another time, there are still a lot of cultures today where hugging and physical affection between two adult family members just does not happen. It does not mean they do not love each other; it is just not expressed through physical moments or even verbal. My mother grew up in such a culture, and I've been hugging her more lately. It's not natural for her, but she's getting better at it. :)

 

When these moments happen on Downton, I don't really blink much about it because of the time period and the culture.

[PRgal]

This sort of physical restraint is very cultural. Aside from the fact the show is set in another time, there are still a lot of cultures today where hugging and physical affection between two adult family members just does not happen. It does not mean they do not love each other; it is just not expressed through physical moments or even verbal. My mother grew up in such a culture, and I've been hugging her more lately. It's not natural for her, but she's getting better at it. :)

 

When these moments happen on Downton, I don't really blink much about it because of the time period and the culture.

 

That is so true.  My parents are from Hong Kong and they have NOT said "I love you" to me since I was five.  It's Just. Not. Done.  And it doesn't mean that they DON'T love me.  They do!  And because of that, I am EXTREMELY uncomfortable with hugging unless I know the person well.  Contrast this with my husband's Big Jewish Family.  Holidays with his side can be VERY UNCOMFORTABLE for me.  That said, I did not find anything awkward about that scene.  Donk's moment with Edith is probably more than what A LOT of dads - especially aristocratic dads - would have done at that time.  There's a bit of generational change too.  Notice that there's more affection between the Mary, Tom and Edith with their kids than Donk/Cora had with Mary, Edith and the late Sybil.

Edited March 4, 2015 by PRgal

[SusanSunflower]

Actually, I thought Edith was rather baffled by Robert's "I doubtless need your forgiveness just as much" (or something like that) in reply to her asking him for his forgiveness -- she got a sort of baffled look on her face and then recognized that he was smiling at her and he seems pleased with himself, gave her a pat and left .... which was one of those sort of "inexplicable things that dads do" moments ...  particularly then followed by Robert's equally rather awkward farewell toast to Tom in which he admitted that he had accepted him after all.... or some such ... Hugh Bonneville really is wonderful  in that Robert really does try to rise to the occasion and say and do "the right thing" ... but (like most people in real life) he's not wildly good at public speaking most of the time and it often comes out a little awkward. As least that's how it seemed to me and was much more endearing and "authentic feeling" than some great eloquence could ever be. 

Edited March 4, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[Daisy head]

Agree @TXhorns. Thomas the Vampire was slutshaming Sinderby and involving an innocent woman and child in the process. For all the love Thomas gets for using his evil powers for good, he is still evil. I think he is an essential character, but he has always, always, ALWAYS been able to wrangle his way out of trouble, primarily because he is The Downstairs Pet of The Downton Powers. Of course, he was let off the hook when he should have had to face an incredibly-uncomfortable moment in front of Robert and Sinderby, with Stowell as chief inquisitor.

Not for nothing, but I wouldn't exactly call the mistress "innocent". The innocent parties here were Rachel, Atticus & the child, IMO.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Daisy head

[Kohola3]

Totally speculation but I wonder if the little girl who plays Sybbie calls her grandfather "Donk" and someone either overheard it or she simply calls Robert Donk because of his age.  Don't know but it certainly doesn't seem like something that JF would come up with on his own.  I love it!

[SusanSunflower]

Since I doubt we will ever meet the Sinderbys ever again I doubt it matters but I can easily imagine Lord Sinderby absolutely bedeviled trying to figure out who knew enough to have successfully and convincingly contacted his mistress and invited her there (and probably paid her fare?) ...  Iow, who was trying to sabotage his family with access to the details of his most-private secrets.  I'd guess the butler would be short-list suspected ... and the butler likely -- knowing his own guilt in this near debacle -- might or might not desire his own revenge on Thomas ... It's fun to imagine, but I suspect it's moot. 

[majormama]

So most of us seem to be in agreement that Denker's broth was terrible but Lady Violet pretended it was good to send the message to Spratt that Denker was there to stay and it was time to get over it. I wonder, though, whether Denker's temporary fear at being found a fraud will have any effect on her behavior, or if she'll decide she's won and can do whatever the hell she wants. She had a look of triumph rather than relief, and immediately threw it in Spratt's face (literally threw a towel in his face) rather than showing the humility of having learned her lesson. She also strikes me as the type who may conclude that her broth really was good because she's Just All That, or that Lady Violet is too senile to know what good broth is and therefore won't notice her drunken escapades.

[SusanSunflower]

@majormama  -- don't give JF ideas -- they're already such as Mutt and Jeff/Laurel and Hardy duo, he might continue to mine this comedic vein ... yikes!!! 

Denker has such as scent of true lower-class vulgarity to her, I suspect she's going to prove herself a very bad apple (or maybe a saint, sigh) before she departs or the show ends. 

[photo fox]

This sort of physical restraint is very cultural. Aside from the fact the show is set in another time, there are still a lot of cultures today where hugging and physical affection between two adult family members just does not happen. It does not mean they do not love each other; it is just not expressed through physical moments or even verbal. My mother grew up in such a culture, and I've been hugging her more lately. It's not natural for her, but she's getting better at it. :)

Oh, absolutely. I mentioned I'm a hugger, but I totally understand that not everyone is. Even in my own family, I'm pretty much the only one (except for the kids). It's just that Edith looked so overwrought, and in her position, I would need a hug. But I definitely agree that a more formal approach is more true to their class and era.

[ZoloftBlob]

My dad and his family are English and um.... no.... we don't hug or touch unless we're at a funeral.

[chessiegal]

Denker knew her broth wasn't any good - 1st because she had to smuggle in Daisy's broth in hopes of passing it off as her own until Spratt found Daisy's and dumped it, and 2nd  because she made a face like "this is awful" when she took the lid off the pot and smelled it..

[helenamonster]

Does anyone know what happens to those absolutely gorgeous outfits the Downton Abbey women wear?  Are they for sale someplace?  Set aside to be in a Downton Abbey Museum one day? 

 

Winterthur, a sort of museum outside of Wilmington, Delaware, on land owned by the DuPont family, had an exhibit last year of costumes from the first four seasons. They were on loan from a company called Cosprop, which I think houses all of the Downton costumes, as well as costumes from other productions, after they've finished using them. Some of the costumes are made from scratch but others are on loan or actual vintage pieces that have been refurbished. I'm not sure if Downton actually owns any of them.

[ennui]

I know I am a minority of 2 or 3 but I can't get into the Mrs. Hughes/Mr. Carson match. I love Mrs. Hughes dearly (athough Carson gets on my nerves at times) and I think they are the best of comrades, having worked together and weathered a lot of storms at Downton.  But I just don't see them as having any romantic vibe at all.  Good friends who know each other inside and out but not lovers.

They are older. Would you prefer to see sweaty grappling in the back seat of a car? I think the best loves grow over time, and there is a strong element of friendship and shared goals. I figured Mrs. Hughes wanted him when she took his hand at the beach, and reminded him that they weren't getting any younger. I knew Carson was up to something when he started showing up with leftover wine and sherry.

I think they're a great match. Carson had tears in his eyes when he said he wasn't going to marry anyone else, and I did, too.

[Driad]

 

About "Mrs." -- in U.S. records of the 1600s and 1700s, marriage records often refer to the bride as "Mrs."  It can really confuse genealogists until we figure out that it meant that she was an adult, not necessarily that she had been married before.  This may have been the custom in Britain too, at the time and maybe later, depending on the clerk who wrote the record.

[LittleIggy]

I agree.   The relationship between father and sons is already bad, given that Dad realizes they're haughty idiots.   Whether the marriage takes place or not has no relevance on that relationship now.  I guess it just came down to Isobel not wanting to have to deal with it.

 e.

Dickie Merton should have hired a 20 year old showgirl named Trixie to pretend to be his new fiancée. The boys would have run to Isobel and begged her to marry daddy!

[memememe76]

I know I am a minority of 2 or 3 but I can't get into the Mrs. Hughes/Mr. Carson match. I love Mrs. Hughes dearly (athough Carson gets on my nerves at times) and I think they are the best of comrades, having worked together and weathered a lot of storms at Downton.  But I just don't see them as having any romantic vibe at all.  Good friends who know each other inside and out but not lovers.

 

Chemistry between two tv characters is certainly subjective, but I do think there is a practical reason why Hughes and Carson would/should marry. Given the time, it's not like the two could shack it up. They don't have the means to hide their sexual escapades like Mary. Also, Carson felt a greater need to marry Hughes after what he found out about her economic status. 

 

Carson can get on my nerves too. I don't get why he gives Moseley such a hard time. 

[DeepRunner]

Why? Sinderby has no idea that Thomas had anything to do with it, and it wouldn't occur to anybody that a member of the Downton staff, who doesn't know these people at all, has only met them once or twice, could possibly orchestrate something like this. The only person who knows is Stowell, and him telling on Thomas doesn't make him look any better. He'd be admitting he gets drunk at work, on wine belonging to the Sinderbys, and blabs his boss's deepest secrets (secrets he shouldn't know) to whoever's around. That's not exactly exonerating. Sure, Stowell could go after him in private, but Rose made it pretty clear that if he steps out of line she will bring him down.

 

Besides, of the people who might even had an inkling Thomas was behind this (Rose and Mary) why would they be mad at Thomas at all? The whole thing resulted in Stowell treating Tom Branson like a human being, and that was their end goal. From their POV, it all worked out. Tom is treated kindly, Lord Sinderby stops being a dick, and the only person who's been hurt is a mean snob, who's heavily implied to be an anti-Semite as well. If they even knew it was Thomas at all.

 

Mary seemed to sort of regret enlisting Thomas, saying he might have gone too far in trying to put Sinderby in his place. Stowell immediately suspected that Thomas had written the note to the cook. It isn't very much of a leap to think he could have deduced that Thomas was behind Diana and her child showing-up and tried to make him account for it. Sometimes, it ain't about the ends justifying the means. It's about the means themselves.

 

Some people love Thomas. To me, he is a fascinating character and an essential one to the show. It would just be nice and probably somewhat equitable if Thomas was in a tight spot without another get-out-of-jail-free card.

[DeepRunner]

Not for nothing, but I wouldn't exactly call the mistress "innocent". The innocent parties here were Rachel, Atticus & the child, IMO.

 

I had considered putting the word innocent in quotes when I wrote my original post; I probly shoulda done. But the point I was trying to make was that dear Mr. Barrow went too far. 

[ennui]

Also, Carson felt a greater need to marry Hughes after what he found out about her economic status.

I suspect he wanted to marry her before that, but he felt awkward about asking. It was his idea to get a place together.

And, honestly, is there something wrong with a man who wants to take care of someone he loves? Is that really so "evil"?

[millennium]

i saw this article in the New York Times:

 

Julian Fellowes on Twists in the ‘Downton Abbey’ Season Finale

 

The fifth season finale of “Downton Abbey” tugged at many heartstrings, and we’re not talking about Lord Grantham’s mistaken case of angina. (Stop reading here if you wish to avoid spoilers.)

 

In one fell swoop, the Dowager Countess (Maggie Smith) abandoned any thought of rekindling a past infatuation with the Russian Prince Kuragin, and Isobel Crawley (Penelope Wilton) closed the door on her engagement to Lord Merton. Love bloomed in the servants’ quarters, where the stately Mr. Carson (Jim Carter) at long last proposed to the kindly Mrs. Hughes (Phyllis Logan).

 

These turns of fate, seen on Sunday’s installment of this PBS “Masterpiece” period drama, are only the latest to have been flung at the noble Crawleys and their household staff by Julian Fellowes, the creator and writer of “Downton Abbey.”

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/02/arts/television/julian-fellowes-on-twists-in-the-downton-abbey-season-finale.html?_r=0

 

It struck me that if these resolutions are Fellowes' idea of plot twists, is it any wonder that so many are disenchanted with this season?

 

A plot twist -- a real plot twist -- is something you're not supposed to see coming.  

 

Matthew.   Matthew was a plot twist.   A really shitty plot twist, but one nonetheless.

 

Did anyone truly expect the Dowager to run off with the Prince, and were you taken by surprise when she didn't?   Did anyone care when Isobel turned down Lord Merton?  (If you ask me, Lord Merton dodged a bullet).    And okay, the scene with Carson and Mrs. Hughes was touching, but it does it really measure up as a plot twist?   We've seen it coming for two seasons now.

 

The only genuine plot twist I saw this season was the sacrifice of Isis.   Like Matthew's death it felt cheap and sudden. 

 

(Does anyone know if the dog expressed a desire to explore film opportunities in America?)

[ScoobieDoobs]

As for Bertie Pelham, I think the show is making the point that that's the kind of guy Edith will have settle for.

 

 

Idk, guess it's just me, but I think he's OK.  Better than what Mary's got goin' on.  OK, I did like Matthew, but he's 6 feet under now.  Her choices were a gay sidekick, a dull hunk & now a smug slickster.  No thanks.  I'll take the nice-looking, sorta quiet, nice guy anytime.  What's so bad about Bertie anyway?  OK, he's not Batman, out saving world & he ain't Clooney or a McDreamy.  Big woo.  Maybe he might be a nice match for Edith if he's kind & sweet & supportive.  Sheesh, she hasn't gotten much of that, has she?  Maybe JF is finally cuttin' her a break?

 

The problem with Merton's sons is that their response to his entreaty that they "make nice" to Isobel is that horrid "no way Jose" letter ... it shows the contempt they have for HIM ... I'm with Isobel ... situation hopeless,

 

 

What bugged me about that a-hole son's nasty letter was he implied it was Isobel who was pressuring Dickie to change his sons' minds about them marrying -- when this was clearly coming only from Dickie himself.  It was a completely false accusation & could not have been any more thoughtless, vicious & insulting to Isobel.  Look, at least the a-hole son laid it out honestly that he was never gonna change his mind.  She doesn't need to be hit over the head with a brick to see how hopeless this is & she'd have to deal with this crap for as long as she'd be married to Dickie.  

 

She's better off with Vi anyway.  They're absolutely adorable together.  They always look like they have such fun -- like 2 school girls.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Anna referred to her husband as "Mr. Bates". Oh my goodness, all this restraint was almost painful.

 

 

So how will Carson & Mrs. Hughes be referring to each other when they're married?

 

If Greene is never mentioned again, I will hoist JF upon my shoulders and carry him down the street under a flurry of ticker tape. It may be inept storytelling to drop such a major plot, but I. don't. care. lol

 

 

I don't think it's the end of it -- unfortunately.  Here's an interview with executive producer Gareth Neame & he says it will be carried over into next season. 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/02/downton-abbey-season-5-finale_n_6786594.html

 

Hey, I figured anyone can make broth.  Well, everyone except me cuz I can't cook for nothin'  I think Ina Garten is full of crap every time I watch her & she says it's so easy.  Same goes for Giada & Martha.  I've followed all of 'em & I can't get anything right.  So I guess I'm nicer non-drunkie Denker, eh?  I know I'd fight with Spratt just as much as she is.  Can't stand him & his goofball face.

 

My mom has been making chicken broth so scrumptious, for nearly 50 years, a mere tiny taste would make Vi loosen her shawl.  Yeah, it's that good -- always!  Anyhoo, mom says there are countless ways chicken broth can go wrong.  She said just using stuff from a can or box or some powdered mix will never come out really good.  And she said just plopping all the right ingredients into a pot & turning a light on is a guarantee to nothing.  She says it's a matter of putting the right amount of the "right" ingredients in & tasting.  Well, there's a deli here in NYC called Sarge's that has the best chicken soup ever & now I'm so in the mood for it.  I don't wanna bother mom & they're open 24/7 so . . .

Edited March 4, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[Crs97]

(Does anyone know if the dog expressed a desire to explore film opportunities in America?)

Well, I doubt we will ever hear the name Isis again if that tells you anything.

[terrymct]

Well, I doubt we will ever hear the name Isis again if that tells you anything.

 

It's sort of surprising that Robert didn't have Isis stuffed and placed by the fireplace.

[beeble]

 

Carson can get on my nerves too. I don't get why he gives Moseley such a hard time. 

 

Because Moseley is the Jerry/Garry of Downton Abbey.  Christie Brinkley will probably show up as his once great "fling" from America.

[wlk68]

Agree @TXhorns. Thomas the Vampire was slutshaming Sinderby and involving an innocent woman and child in the process. For all the love Thomas gets for using his evil powers for good, he is still evil. I think he is an essential character, but he has always, always, ALWAYS been able to wrangle his way out of trouble, primarily because he is The Downstairs Pet of The Downton Powers. Of course, he was let off the hook when he should have had to face an incredibly-uncomfortable moment in front of Robert and Sinderby, with Stowell as chief inquisitor.

I was under the impression that Sinderby's own butler was the one who summoned the mistress. Yes, Thomas had Baxter write a note but that was about Sinderby's dinner preferences, wasn't it? Once the butler saw that Thomas hadn't written the note, he opened up a little more about his hatred for his boss and I assumed that Thomas may have egged him into doing something to embarrass Sinderby by using whatever dirt the butler was privy to. I don't think even Thomas was expecting what actually happened. YMMV.  

Edited March 4, 2015 by wlk68

[ShadowFacts]

 

Some people love Thomas. To me, he is a fascinating character and an essential one to the show. It would just be nice and probably somewhat equitable if Thomas was in a tight spot without another get-out-of-jail-free card.

 

I agree, but having him pay the piper would probably mean him being fired for once and for all.  Then he's off our screens.  I enjoyed seeing him smack down Denker and help out the temp footman.  Baxter's advice about his using his powers for good did result in him saying "you're daft", so we knew the essential Thomas was going to always bubble to the surface.  But this escapade was too over-the-top, in every way.  And I was sad that Baxter had minor involvement -- what about her sage advice? 

 

Did Thomas ask Sinderby's butler the name of the mistress, or did I dream that up?  Anyway, I inferred that Thomas did the summoning.  I hadn't even suspected the butler, but I guess that would be preferable to me. Thomas would still have culpability in the chain of events, but the worst of it would be on Sinderby's butler.  It was a really nasty, nasty thing to do and I would have liked a different way for Rose to neutralize the old jerk.