S30.E01: It's Survivor Warfare

[cooksdelight]

Add a bunch of people screaming behind you to hurry up, and I could easily see a tribe blowing a huge advantage on that puzzle, the same way the White Collar tribe did on the 50 piece puzzle.

I think we just found where the deaf woman has an advantage in the game. Imagine being able to turn off her hearing aids and not hearing Probst? Nirvana!

[Miss Scarlet]

From Parvati's Hollywood Reporter recap

 

In my eyes, So thinks Joaquin is attractive and wants a chance to make a bond with the hot guy right away. This wouldn’t be a bad idea if So was some unattractive, unthreatening schlump, but she is super hot and majorly threatening.

I don't think that's why So did it at all. I think So wanted to be pro-active and be a leader. I remember in the Heroes vs Villains recap for the episode where Parvati said that Jerri wanted to join her alliance with Russell because Jerri had seen Russell give Parvati the idol and how Parvati thought Jerri wanted a man to do the same thing for her. To quote the recapper "Parvati, do you not think better of our gender?" Not everything is about attractiveness and getting validation from men.

Edited February 27, 2015 by wudpixie

[Hera]

I don't think he was suggesting getting Tyler out. He, Shireen and Carolyn were talking about going after So and he mentioned needing Tyler onboard because he's the wildcard which makes sense since So and Joaquin were clearly aligned. Max's argument was that in a tribe of just six, it could have easily been a 3-3 tie, so they needed Tyler onboard. And then the next scene was him and Tyler discussing what the best thing to do was.

Fair enough. It's also possible that he said that before talking to Tyler and realizing they were on the same side. I will readily admit that I'm biased against Max and am keeping an eye out for flaws in his game, so this probably won't be the only time I see ones that aren't there.

 

ETA the quote. Posts are going up fast!

Edited February 27, 2015 by Hera

[Kromm]

I think we just found where the deaf woman has an advantage in the game. Imagine being able to turn off her hearing aids and not hearing Probst? Nirvana!

So true.

But sometimes even seeing his smarmy face might be too much.

[lilabennet]

I may be completely wrong, but I get the impression that Vince's first choice was not to be ''feather guy''.  I think he wanted to be the alpha, ladies' man, entrepreneur type guy at some point in his life but lacked the aptitude for it, so now he has cultivated his free spirit facade to cover that failure.  I think this because he was so quick to mention his supposed prowess with women and then he completely wigged out because Jenn showed a little attention to Joe.  It was like the largest part of his personal identity was threatened or something.  Stereotyping, I know, but I don't think true free spirits have a lot of room or patience for jealousy or envy in their worlds.

[Miss Scarlet]

Oh sexism and ageism in Survivor. It never changes. I have come so close to quitting this show so many times for those reasons.

 

It was just sad to see that once everyone got back from camp it was such a forgone conclusion that it would definitely be a woman voted out. I can understand targeting Shirin because of the puzzle, but So was targeted for lying about the beans when Joaquin did the exact same thing and Carolyn was targeted just for being an "older woman". That was the only reason. So mentioned something about her not stepping up in the challenge, but we didn't see her struggle in the challenge and if she had, it definitely would have been shown. And who's to say that the men are even going to be that helpful in challenges in the future? There have been so many seasons where men have been kept for "challenge strength" when they are not even good at challenges and some "older" women can be quite strong.

 

I've always thought it was interesting when younger female players are ageist against older female players, somehow not realizing that they could just as easily find themselves in the same position if they played the game in a few years. I've especially thought about that when older women have made the finals and younger women have never really seemed to notice the biases and ageism.

 

Then of course there was Rodney's gross comment about how women just want men to lead them. He can go anytime now. I feel like I need to take a shower whenever I see him.

 

I was also grossed out by the condescending way that Dan talked to the women on his tribe. He better watch it, or he is done the first they go to tribal. Although I didn't think Sierra handled it in the best way by insulting him to Lindsay while basically acting like he wasn't even standing in front of them.

 

I thought it was hilarious that the no collar tribe was totally haughty about being no collar and judging the white collars when the no collars seemed super pretentious. Jenn seems annoying and like a try-hard to me. I don't know why Joe and Vince have taken interest in her other than the fact that I guess at least she attempts to joke around with them and also because she's, you know, there. They have to do something to pass the time.

 

Liked Joe a lot, although I thought his flirting with Jenn was awkward as hell. The "princess" line made me laugh. Of course it was nothing compared to Vince's serial killer likeness. Joe was definitely cast to be Malcolm 2.0, but he seems more assertive than Malcolm. I remember when Russell Swan did things Malcolm didn't agree with, Malcolm just said nothing and let it ride. But I think Joe was right to correct Vince in this case, rather than going along with building a crappy and uncomfortable shelter. 

Edited February 27, 2015 by wudpixie

[ratgirlagogo]

 

I think we just found where the deaf woman has an advantage in the game. Imagine being able to turn off her hearing aids and not hearing Probst? Nirvana!

Well, Justin LeBlanc turned off his cochlear implant so as to focus on his work and block out the screaming weeping drama queens on Project Runway and it worked out well for him - he was a finalist even though he didn't win his season.  I just can't imagine this being any kind of advantage on Survivor however  where you really need to be able to keep track of what everyone else is saying, especially when they don't want you to hear.  

 

Totally. Love her!  Go older women.  Despite what Jeffy says about people from all walks of life winning Survivor, no older woman has ever won.  By "older woman" I do not mean older than 30.  I mean 50 or above.  Tina was about 40.   That doesn't count.

By that standard only two older men have ever won.  Bob Crowley was 57 and Tom Westman was 51 and one COULD make the argument that in each case they kind of got the win handed to them by a younger player (Bob by Sugar and Tom by Ian's surrender at the final immunity challenge).  I think the contestants are less sexist  anyway than Jeff.  The Survivors have voted thirteen female winners over the seasons but the only one that Jeff takes seriously is Parvati.  Ridiculous.

[Miss Scarlet]

My first thought when hearing that was: You know who makes employees cry?  Terrible bosses.  You know who brags about that?  Terrible human beings.  

All true. Although a lot of contestants on the show are probably awful in real life. Many of them usually brag about manipulating people in their real lives. You know who manipulates people in life? Terrible people. You know who constantly brags about it? Sociopaths. 

 

I thought the premiere was good, but it seemed to drag a little and tribal seemed really short.

 

I was having Rupert All-Stars shelter-building flashbacks in the scene with Dan. Yikes.

 

I don't care for these dumb tribe themes. It's just an excuse for Probst to be a reductive idiot and declare that whoever wins demonstrates that their trait/skill (as represented by the tribe they were first on) is the most important for winning the game. Also, this seems like too much of a redux for Brains, Beauty and Brawn. Brains = White Collar (Which is why Jeff hates them - why does he have such an inferiority complex when it comes to intelligence? Was he held back in school at some point?), Brawn = Blue Collar and No Collar = Beauty because they're probably just full of unemployed actors/models who can spin being unemployed into being "free-spirited". 

Edited February 27, 2015 by wudpixie

[wonald]

 

By that standard only two older men have ever won.  Bob Crowley was 57 and Tom Westman was 51

 

 

Tom was 40, not 51.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

Tom was 40, not 51.

Oops, my bad.  Doing math the wrong way.  But in that case there's only ONE man over fifty who won.  In general older people don't win on this show, no. 

[BK1978]

Carolyn sort of reminds me of a well spoken Sue Hawke.  I am not sure why that is the case but that was the vibe I got off her when watching the show.

 

 

White Collar is like Brains tribe.  They will be decimated but one or two members will go to the end.

 

I was thinking the same thing myself.  Granted it will probably not happen but they just do not seem to be a tribe that has their crap together.  However, once they are split up they will be of value to their new teams.

 

 

Nah - he reminds me of Coach.  And according to his bio, he can flirt and "use his sex appeal like Parvati" - as we saw tonight :)  Clearly he tells as tall of a tale.

 

Joe became my favorite with "I learned how on youtube and practiced every day."

 

I do think it's hilarious how they fall into whatever story they are given - from the angst and drama Jeff loves over the "blood v. water" angle to the "look how we act, we're ____ collar" - I also like Joe for not giving us a bunch of that :)

 

I was thinking the same thing he is Coach 2.0.  Coach also wore feathers in his hair if I remember correctly.

[RedheadZombie]

Question. When did the male survivors decide to discard their clothes and just run around in their underpants? Seems like it's been a few seasons now. It's kind of an ewwwwww thing for me. To the ones who stay clothed, I thank you.

 

it looks like next week there's a woman sporting a bra, but naked form the waist down.  Why bother with the bra?

[himela]

Dude was being creepy and possessive of someone he'd just met. Demanding a "do you like him better than me" from her was totally gross. And that extra long hug. I wanted to shower just watching it. And not from any odors.

 

 

With respect, that's an odd read on a guy who seems kind of like he's a psycho--pushing his attention of her instantly, and then conveniently turning on her when her attempts to be diplomatic about his creeper behavior showed she wasn't in to him as much as his fantasy.

I'm wondering if you missed the earlier part of the episode with his other behavior, or perhaps lost track of the sub-plot with the two of them and/or didn't identify him properly (because he added the feathers later--in the earlier scene he didn't have them).

People get put in jail for stuff like this. It reads almost exactly like cases in the real world where a stalker turns on his object of obsession and makes her into a target. In the early stages of that the woman usually tries to be neutral and not reject the guy overtly, and that's exactly what happened here too--except here there's a gameplay component that she didn't want to make a game enemy as well. Which she probably has anyway, because psycho stalker types like this ARE paranoid and jealous, like he has been, and in the game the easiest way for his disappointment to manifest is for him to try and get her voted out.

I realize his behavior is weird, but we shouldn't forget that a lot is based on editing in these reality shows. I mean, this conversation Vince and Jenn had could have been the result of another conversation that was not shown or it could have meant other things. I'm not supporting this behavior in general but only in this game cause relationships and alliances are everything. I mean, how many people in this game had to suck it and tolerate people they disliked? Remember Boston Rob with Phillip? One should be dreaming thinking that they will go to the end only with people they like. Social sacrifices should be made in this game. Vince is crazy and all over the place but at the moment he approached Jenn he was a valuable ally. We all know how dangerous couples can be. Jenn could have gone along with him, make him believe she trusts him and wants his friendship etc and she could secretly like Joe and behave more discreetly. That's all I'm saying.

[ProfCrash]

Phillip did not demand full body hugs that last 15 minutes. There is crazy like Phillip and Coach, annoying, stupid and enough to drive you a bit crazy because you have to put up with it. Lots of tall tales, stupid nicknames, and ego to deal with. There is crazy like J'Tia, unpredictable and destructive to the camp. Annoying and causes you to go  hungry.

 

Then there is crazy like Brandon. Unbalanced, unpredictable, and potentially violent. Probst was massaging the dude to stop him from physically attacking Phillip.

 

And now there is crazy like Vince. Controlling, stalker, and physically dangerous. Jenn put up with the long hug but she was not happy about it. The questions about her interest in Joe and the long hug would be sexual harassment in my workplace. Plane and simple. Dude would be fired. I am sure we will see something that will lead to the need for a restraining order. It is Survivor so Jenn has to deal with it but that is bullshit, plain and simple. There is nothing interesting watching anyone try and mentally and physically control another person. Manipulation is a part of this game. Boston Rob manipulated people. He got them to go along with what he wanted. Vince is trying to emotionally and physically control Jenn. If this was a new relationship, I would tell Jenn to run fast because the guy is showing all the signs of an abuser.

[Wings]

Good post ProfCrash. 

 

I agree that the looooooooooong full, body hug sets Vince apart from the run of the mill crazies they usually cast.   I bet the staff psychologist has her eye on him.  

Edited February 27, 2015 by wings707

[himela]

I'm still thinking you are overreacting but we'll just wait and see. After all Jenn never told him to back off. He interrogated about her liking Joe, she replied to him seriously, without freaking out or telling him to mind his own business or something. He asked for a hug, she gave him a hug. She could have told him in his face "dude back off, I'll be your ally but that's it". The way I saw it she was OK with him while he was there and she was making fun of him and his behavior in her alone interviews. After all I'm sure the staff of the Survivor production would not have allowed to a dangerous person to even get close to Survivor cast. For now I will only speculate that the editing was made this way so that Vince (who is not totally sane, I'm not denying this) is shown off as a dangerous and over the top stalker and create drama. We shouldn't forget we are still watching reality tv, aren't we?

[Wings]

I always allow for editing and never take anything to the edge of the cliff and I am not doing that now.  I stand by my first take on Vince which is creepy.  "One of my greatest weakness is my intense attraction to women."  "When I want something I get it."

 

The long hug did not override him pulling her aside to ask if she were more attracted to Joe them him.  That conversation alone is enough right there to raise a red flag.  

 

Nothing is going to happen.  He will not harm her.  He will not flip out and be carried away or asked to leave.  He will be voted out at the first opportunity is my guess.  He is a needy, insecure weirdo, nothing more.  

[candall]

 To quote the recapper "Parvati, do you not think better of our gender?" Not everything is about attractiveness and getting validation from men.

 

 The Survivors have voted thirteen female winners over the seasons but the only one that Jeff takes seriously is Parvati.  Ridiculous.

Ugh, Parvati.  If that women were suddenly unable to see what she and everyone else looked like, her brain wouldn't be able to function.  And Jeff is nauseating every time he boasts about her "game play."

 

Directing my bitchiness elsewhere, there was a comment at EW that Vince would be the first survivor leaving the island in handcuffs.

 

I'm surprised the editors didn't save the dark side footage of their star free-spirit hippie dude until later.  Maybe Vince doesn't last long enough to have an arc or maybe he gets even creepier.

Edited February 27, 2015 by candall

[Guest]

I also feel like Vince is cringeworthy but harmless.  He admits his weakness is women.  Jenn should take advantage of that.  Which hopefully is what she is doing.  

[FineWashables]

 

After all I'm sure the staff of the Survivor production would not have allowed to a dangerous person to even get close to Survivor cast.

I wish I agreed, but I can't.  Did you see the season with Brandon Hantz?  Because it was clear from his statements on Day 1 forward that the guy was batshit crazy.  And not in a good way.

[Zahdii]

I'm still thinking you are overreacting but we'll just wait and see. After all Jenn never told him to back off. He interrogated about her liking Joe, she replied to him seriously, without freaking out or telling him to mind his own business or something. He asked for a hug, she gave him a hug. She could have told him in his face "dude back off, I'll be your ally but that's it". The way I saw it she was OK with him while he was there and she was making fun of him and his behavior in her alone interviews. After all I'm sure the staff of the Survivor production would not have allowed to a dangerous person to even get close to Survivor cast. For now I will only speculate that the editing was made this way so that Vince (who is not totally sane, I'm not denying this) is shown off as a dangerous and over the top stalker and create drama. We shouldn't forget we are still watching reality tv, aren't we?

 

This scenario has already been played out on Big Brother 16, where Caleb (with the self designated nickname of 'Beast Mode Cowboy') developed an instant fascination for Amber.  Despite making racist remarks on his social media accounts before entering the BB house, he was willing to give Amber a pass for being only 'half-black', presumably because she checked off all his other boxes on his Perfect Woman list.  He obsessed over her constantly, and when she became aware of his interest she was left with the daunting task of either managing him without actually telling him she loved him, or leaving the game.  Caleb was always either telling the cameras that she felt the same way about him as he did about her, but was being ladylike because her family was watching; or ranting and raving about how she should be in love with him because he was just so frickin wonderful.

 

Caleb was seen on live feeds to be watching Amber sleep and sometimes caressing her face.  One time he kissed her as she slept.  At one point he was angry with her and went to her room and threw something at her while she slept, causing her to wake up in confusion while he celebrated in another room.

 

The live viewers on Jokers were terrified that Caleb would attack Amber, or stalk her after the show.  They found accounts of him stalking other women in the past, although he'd never actually gotten physical, and soon moved on to another target.  Amber's family gave interviews demanding that BB remove Caleb because they were afraid that the stressful environment of the BB house would cause him to snap and hurt her.  It should be noted that a huge amount of his fixation on her wasn't shown on the TV broadcast.

 

Caleb's obsession was used by other players to further their own games, and they eventually convinced him to vote Amber out.  He then took possession of the items she'd left behind.  He was most proud of getting her hairbrush, which he said were really expensive, and he'd only return them to her if she agreed to go out with him.  Caleb was eventually discarded when he was no longer useful, but by then Amber was back with her family so he didn't get to live with her in the sequester house that the contestants who made it to the last half of the game live in together.

[Guest]

Until a Caleb, Brandon or Vince actually does something illegal to someone, I'm assuming they're typical reality show fame hos, acting a part for the cameras and that at no time are these people being filmed 'round the clock in any actual danger from each other.  

[Jobiska]

I don't know whether I buy Probst's claim that all the puzzles "should" take the same amount of time, but re the 50 small pieces, have none of them ever seen the challenges where one or more puzzle piece among many fell off the table while being poured out?  Even if noted right away, you're wasting time running around the puzzle picking it up off the ground, and you might not even see it right away.  I groaned when they untied the 50 piece bag, even before Shirin choked.  

[henripootel]

I wish I agreed, but I can't.  Did you see the season with Brandon Hantz?  Because it was clear from his statements on Day 1 forward that the guy was batshit crazy.  And not in a good way.

My concern would not be 'what might a crazy contestant do' so much as 'what will production do about it'.  I know, I know - they're all fame-whores and much of what we see is faked to some degree, but the Great Brandon Meltdown really gave me pause.  Jeff's whole shoulder-massaging thing was in no way helping the guy face an unpleasant but procedurally-required ordeal.  Jeff could have handled this in any number of kind, quiet ways (a quick walk off set escorted by security, for instance).  Nay, the shoulder rub wasn't a kindness to help Brandon through a tough situation, it was to hold Brandon in place for the added humiliation of getting 'formally' voted out but only after other contestants got a chance to antagonize him one last time.  No fan of Brandon am I but he seemed genuinely in distress and this was cruel and completely unnecessary.  But, I'm sure, producer gold. 

 

If this incident is any indication, I think it clear that the safety of the contestant is important to them, but not their only (or even primary) concern.  I honestly didn't get that bad a vibe off Vince just yet so perhaps we're casting aspersions unfairly, but if he does do something bad I'm sure production will step in.  After they've got their film.  

Edited February 28, 2015 by henripootel

[Boilergal]

The editing of how the collars selected the honest or deceive options - wonder how much they really had to edit it.

 

No Collar - no hesitation - honest

 

Blue Collar - on the fence back and forth - honest

 

White Collar - no hesitation - deceive

 

It seemed when no collar was in camp talking about building their shelter- someone said something we are no - collar we are suppose to be care free - or something along those lines.  Almost like they been brainwashed to only being able to think a certain way about how they SHOULD be behaving while creating camps and interacting.  Also with Joaquin on the beach talking about how they don't know how to build fire, because they have blue collars build their fires.  

 

HATED the way beardy was talking to the women - like they were 2 year olds that couldn't comprehend basic concepts- I wanted to reach through the TV and smack him.  And he needs to keep his pants on...NO ONE wants to see that - NO ONE

[Wings]

So wanted to be honest. Joaquin talked her into deceiving.  

[henripootel]

The editing of how the collars selected the honest or deceive options - wonder how much they really had to edit it.

I'm guessing a lot.  It was a kinda interesting wrinkle, fairly simple and with some strategic implications, some of which we got to see.  I'll give them credit for this one, it added something to what is usually a boring first day.  

 

Also liked the 'choice of puzzles' thing, and my guess is that you should always choose 'medium' and not take Jeffy's word that they take pretty much the same amount of time.  Not too hard, not too soft, that's the Goldilocks solution.

[ProfCrash]

My concern would not be 'what might a crazy contestant do' so much as 'what will production do about it'.  I know, I know - they're all fame-whores and much of what we see is faked to some degree, but the Great Brandon Meltdown really gave me pause.  Jeff's whole shoulder-massaging thing was in no way helping the guy face an unpleasant but procedurally-required ordeal.  Jeff could have handled this in any number of kind, quiet ways (a quick walk off set escorted by security, for instance).  Nay, the shoulder rub wasn't a kindness to help Brandon through a tough situation, it was to hold Brandon in place for the added humiliation of getting 'formally' voted out after other contestants got a chance to antagonize him one last time.  No fan of Brandon am I, but this was cruel and completely unnecessary, but, I'm sure, producer gold. 

 

If this incident is any indication, I think it clear that the safety of the contestant is important to them, but not their only (or even primary) concern.  I honestly didn't get that bad a vibe off Vince just yet so perhaps we're casting aspersions unfairly, but if he does do something bad I'm sure production will step in.  After they've got their film.  

If I remember correctly, Brandon's tribe mates were hiding the machete and other objects that he could use to hurt himself or others. Jeff pulled the improve tribal at the challenge a bit too easily. I have the feeling that there had been discussions about Brandon, when to pull him, and what to do if he does flip. One option was for Jeff to step in and call for a tribal immediately if he sees something bad starting to go down. There is no way Jeff does that without approval from legal and without advance thought. It was all too smooth.

 

I did watch BB and I saw the Caleb BS. In the context of the show, the normal social rules and HR rules do not apply, Amber's game was screwed because she had to deal with someone who was stalking her and she had no escape other then to quit the game. Vince has moved into Caleb category for me. He is trying to control who Jenn is talking to and relating to. He insists on a hug and holds it for far too long. Jenn can either endure the hug in hopes of calming Vince down or tell him to back the fuck off and deal with the aftermath. The aftermath would be awful for her game. She has to admit that she entered into an alliance with him at a time when people are concerned about alliances and to people who she is not in an alliance. Even if they vote Vince off because his behavior was inappropriate, she is the next target because of the alliance and drama.

 

Vince is not harmless. He is the type of guy people blow off and there is a strong chance that sometime in the future will be arrested for stalking or harming someone. He is insecure and controlling. Not harmless. Caleb was not harmless and Vince is not harmless.

 

I'll shut up now.

[scowl]

. And for some unknown, dumb reason, the show refuses to provide the men with show-approved swimwear which would eliminate the need for "blurring" the crotches to hide the bulgy and jiggly bits. Although I've noticed they've become more lax about the blurring lately.

 

Yet when Jenn was chopping away with an ax, her breasts were completely blurred out. This does not seem fair. 

[Guest]

Those are some pretty big logical leaps.  Vince showed some possessiveness not aggression.  Jenn had other options open to her besides be hugged for two minutes or tell him to fuck off, just as Amber had.  They both seem to be using the guys' weakness against them, which is what they should do.  Amber's game was prolonged by Caleb, if you ask me.  

 

 

[peachmangosteen]

I wish Jeff had commented about it.

 

I read on tumblr that "Probst had to stop reading the votes to get confirmation from Joaquin that his “Cherilyn” vote was for Carolyn and not Shirin." 

 

I think Vince is definitely showing some warning signs that he is a potentially dangerous person. And IMO that's enough to be very leery of him. I hope No Collar loses the next IC and they go ahead and vote him out because I don't wanna relive a Caleb situation again.

Edited February 27, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[lilabennet]

I really like Jenn so far, so I wonder what the best move for her would be to get out of the Vince situation.  I think I spent most of last summer fuming because of Caleb and the no-win situation Amber was stuck with.  It is so unfair for a woman, or anyone, to have to put up with sexual harassment on these shows.  I know you could argue that she doesn't have to put up with it.  She could just blow her own game apart to get out of that situation, but it is complete bs to expect someone to choose between the game and their personal safety.  Wasn't there a similar problem on Hantz jr's first season for one of the women on his tribe?  I was saddened by Jenn's talking head in which she said she thought she knew how to manage Vince now (probably meaning that she will continue to humor him while trying not to encourage him as much as possible-smile and nod, smile and nod), because she shouldn't have to manage him.  Jenn's problem is compounded by the usual Survivor mentality that tribes need to keep the men around to be strong in challenges, so if she was to suggest voting him out it may cause her tribe to turn on her.  I wonder how it would serve her to mention how creeped out she is by Vince to the other people on her tribe while pushing to vote him out.  I don't know how much help or support you can expect from strangers in a situation like this, especially on Survivor but it might be worth a try.  Maybe Vince will move on to creeping out the law student and they can both push to vote him out due to his inappropriate behavior.

[Guest]

Jenn could simply tell Vince she's not comfortable with his physical or romantic attention, which Amber also could've done.  They chose not to because it's a game advantage to have a moony-eyed ally wrapped around your finger.  

[cooksdelight]

I wonder what production would do if they all decided to strip and go naked? The blurring would drive the film editors crazy.

[peachmangosteen]

I think Jenn will be OK because she seems well-liked by her tribe and therefore I assume she probably has better social and strategic ties to them than Vince does, especially considering we know at least one tribe member has had problems with Vince. She probably could just say he needs to be voted out and the tribe would agree easily.

 

But if she decides to try and use him to her advantage, I don't have a problem with that. If she can manage to do it, good for her.

Edited February 27, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[henripootel]

If I remember correctly, Brandon's tribe mates were hiding the machete and other objects that he could use to hurt himself or others. Jeff pulled the improve tribal at the challenge a bit too easily.

They did, or more accurately, we were shown them doing so.  If this wasn't BS (and I seem to recall comments from players afterward that they did indeed do this), it was especially reprehensible that Probst played this out for entertainment value rather than getting Brandon the hell out of there.  I agree, this was totally planned out (probably at the last minute, but still) and this was the plan they came up with.  I'm generally okay-ish with Probst and his nonsense but this was just despicable.  God help them if they play a future incident for ratings and somebody actually gets hurt.

I wonder what production would do if they all decided to strip and go naked? The blurring would drive the film editors crazy.

 

At the risk of sounding a bit too observant, I noticed that So was, uh, a bit braless on a cool morning, and didn't get the blur treatment.  This in contrast to Brenda's first season where all of her bikini shots had permanent blur spots attached to her chest.  Made me wonder if the blur policy was getting more relaxed, or maybe the Blur Police were asleep at the switch.  

Edited February 27, 2015 by henripootel

[lilabennet]

Jenn could simply tell Vince she's not comfortable with his physical or romantic attention, which Amber also could've done.  They chose not to because it's a game advantage to have a moony-eyed ally wrapped around your finger.  

I don't think we are reading Vince or Caleb in the same way.  There is no possible way that simply telling Vince that she is not interested in him romantically would be that simple.  His ego would not allow it.  In real life of course that is how she should and probably would handle it, but in the game I think she has done the best she could for now to prevent her game from being blown to smithereens.  Amber did tell Caleb she wasn't interested and it did not turn out very well for her.  His creepiest behavior actually came about after she told him if I remember correctly.

[himela]

Ok so you intrigued me and I watched 34 minutes of a 54 minutes video regarding Caleb and Amber's story, the last thing that I watched was the date they had and I got to say that till now I see no stalkerish behavior from Caleb towards her. In the contrary I find he is really polite with her, he had a problem with Cody guy asking him if he has any feelings for her, him denying it but still seeing them together all the time. Amber was the one who brought up the date "challenge" and I was shocked to see that coming from a girl who all this time was feeling uncomfortable around him and complaining and worrying etc. Even after the date she chose to ignore him. I mean, who is to blame now? Why can't she just tell him from the day he asked her on a date "listen, I am happy to be your friend and play the game with you, but there's no chance something romantic will ever go on between us"? I'm not sure about how other girls are, but I never, and I mean never, give "permission" with my behavior to a man I'm not interested in to hope that I like him. It's very easy for me. Maybe it's not that easy for other women, I don't know. But what I do know is that a woman should say no to something she doesn't want. Amber should do that, Jenn should do that. "I don't want to go on a date with you, period". "I don't want to hug you, I see you as a potential friend and nothing more and it's none of your business whether I do or I don't like Joe". So simple things to be said and put a period on everything.

 

Regarding Vince, I insist that the editing had to do with most part of his showingly creepy behavior. And editing did what it was supposed to do, create drama and discussion and ultimately more money for the people involved in production.

[Guest]

I wonder what production would do if they all decided to strip and go naked? The blurring would drive the film editors crazy.

 

I was surprised to see nudity in the previews because I assumed after the long past nudity, the show asked them not to go there.  For both 'cost of blurring' reasons and 'Sue Hawk sexual harassment' reasons.

I don't think we are reading Vince or Caleb in the same way.  There is no possible way that simply telling Vince that she is not interested in him romantically would be that simple.  His ego would not allow it.  In real life of course that is how she should and probably would handle it, but in the game I think she has done the best she could for now to prevent her game from being blown to smithereens.  Amber did tell Caleb she wasn't interested and it did not turn out very well for her.  His creepiest behavior actually came about after she told him if I remember correctly.

I don't think you can tell that much about a person from the 60 seconds or so of him we've seen, though I respect all opinions.  I also think it's possible to thwart romance without blowing your game to smithereens.  

 

Ok so you intrigued me and I watched 34 minutes of a 54 minutes video regarding Caleb and Amber's story, the last thing that I watched was the date they had and I got to say that till now I see no stalkerish behavior from Caleb towards her. In the contrary I find he is really polite with her, he had a problem with Cody guy asking him if he has any feelings for her, him denying it but still seeing them together all the time. Amber was the one who brought up the date "challenge" and I was shocked to see that coming from a girl who all this time was feeling uncomfortable around him and complaining and worrying etc. Even after the date she chose to ignore him. I mean, who is to blame now? Why can't she just tell him from the day he asked her on a date "listen, I am happy to be your friend and play the game with you, but there's no chance something romantic will ever go on between us"? I'm not sure about how other girls are, but I never, and I mean never, give "permission" with my behavior to a man I'm not interested in to hope that I like him. It's very easy for me. Maybe it's not that easy for other women, I don't know. But what I do know is that a woman should say no to something she doesn't want. Amber should do that, Jenn should do that. "I don't want to go on a date with you, period". "I don't want to hug you, I see you as a potential friend and nothing more and it's none of your business whether I do or I don't like Joe". So simple things to be said and put a period on everything.

 

Regarding Vince, I insist that the editing had to do with most part of his showingly creepy behavior. And editing did what it was supposed to do, create drama and discussion and ultimately more money for the people involved in production.

I agree.  I think responding to unwanted romantic attention with, for example, asking the rest of the tribe to vote Vince out (as a first response) is wrong.  Or asking production to intervene.  At least first ask him nicely to not make advances and if he doesn't comply then escalate it. 

[Alapaki]

I wouldn't make any psychological observations about Vince based on a few minutes of footage.

But I would just observe that people put up with all sorts of behavior on the show that they wouldn't stand for in real life. The do this either to preserve an alliance, to try to stay under the radar by not making waves, etc.

I think it gets into a sketchy area when the behavior in question involves physical contact.

And, yes, I realize that Jenn could have "defended herself" (at the risk of her game). And, yes, I understand that Jenn signed up for the show knowing there are all sorts of players.

My point is just that Vince, by insisting upon physical contact within the context of the game, is a real asshole.

[ProfCrash]

I think we have seen nudity since Sue. The problem there was Richard got naked in a situation which required physical contact. That strikes me as different then people skinny dipping or wandering a beach nude. I suspect that there is now a rule that players have to get the groin and breasts covered during all challenges to prevent another Sue/Richard situation.

 

I have read some comments where people think that the White Collar tribe threw the challenge so that they could vote out So. I think it is a stretch, throwing a challenge in the first episode strikes me as stupid. I can't see any real reason to throw a challenge to get rid of So. She didn't come off all that bad and I can't say I see Survivor Super Fans throwing a challenge and the Producers not airing that conversation.

 

The argument is that they botched the puzzle far too spectacularly and that a decision to do so would explain why Carolyn was comfortable not playing the idol.

 

Thoughts?

[Drogo]

Found this picture of Vince's business card. 

 

[iMonrey]

 

I read on tumblr that "Probst had to stop reading the votes to get confirmation from Joaquin that his “Cherilyn” vote was for Carolyn and not Shirin."

 

LOL, I hadn't thought of that. Carolyn is not a difficult name, and I don't know where the heck Joaquin got the "h" from, but it can be spelled either "Caroline" or "Carolyn," and there's no good way to ask someone "So, how do you spell your name, exactly?" without giving away the fact that you plan to vote for them. (This does support my theory that by no stretch of the imagination does Joaquin qualify as some kind of corporate, white collar type.)

 

 

I wonder what production would do if they all decided to strip and go naked? The blurring would drive the film editors crazy.

 

I'm sure they would actually encourage the women to do so, because even if they have to blur them out, they still consider it titillating and an integral part of the show. To this day I haven't gotten over Jenna and Heidi stripping down for chocolate during an immunity challenge. That's pretty much the show's bread and butter as far as the male audience is concerned. The men, on the other hand, are a different story. 

[CletusMusashi]

Jenn seems annoying and like a try-hard to me. I don't know why Joe and Vince have taken interest in her

Two reasons. And they're spectacular.

[choclatechip45]

I have read some comments where people think that the White Collar tribe threw the challenge so that they could vote out So. I think it is a stretch, throwing a challenge in the first episode strikes me as stupid. I can't see any real reason to throw a challenge to get rid of So. She didn't come off all that bad and I can't say I see Survivor Super Fans throwing a challenge and the Producers not airing that conversation.

 

So said in her exit interviews Shirin was very upset when they got back from camp. I tend to lean towards that they didn't throw it

[Alapaki]

Two reasons. And they're spectacular.

Well, Vince is a Coconut vendor

[ghoulina]

I have read some comments where people think that the White Collar tribe threw the challenge so that they could vote out So. I think it is a stretch, throwing a challenge in the first episode strikes me as stupid. I can't see any real reason to throw a challenge to get rid of So. She didn't come off all that bad and I can't say I see Survivor Super Fans throwing a challenge and the Producers not airing that conversation.

The argument is that they botched the puzzle far too spectacularly and that a decision to do so would explain why Carolyn was comfortable not playing the idol.

Thoughts?

 

I definitely don't think they threw it. As someone else commented, Shirin seemed quite frazzled by the whole thing, and I don't think anyone had a clear cut idea on who to vote out until after they lost. So seemed to think people would immediately want Shirin, so she started campaigning for Carolyn to go. Meanwhile, I don't think Carolyn saved herself until after she revealed she had the idol. So yea, it didn't seem like a tribe with a clear consensus on who they wanted out and a plan to lose in order to ensure that. And even though some members thought she was untrustworthy, I don't think So came across as particularly useless or horrible to live with. So why would you want to be down a member this early?

[Drogo]

His rack of coconuts might be bigger than hers. 

 

I don't understand why skinny guys do so much chest, and no arms. 

They end up with boobs.  Furry boobs.

 

 

[Guest]

I think if there was talk of throwing the challenge we would've been shown it.  

[Sentient Meat]

I had Carolyn pegged as a front runner until she imploded at tribal... at that point she became a milder version of Kass for me... we'll see if she can bounce back from that but for now she seems too hot headed to go all the way.

 

I think in real life Jenn would have told Vince to back off, but in the relatively safe, controlled environment of Survivor, she smartly decided to appease him until she could secure other allies to vote him off later.  Not that anyone should have to endure sexual harassment to win a million dollars... but in real life people usually don't need to starve or sleep all night in the pouring rain either... putting up with freaks (up to the point of awkward hugs, not more) unfortunately comes with the territory.

 

So made the mistake that usually men are more prone to make by attaching herself to the hot guy/girl before getting to know them.  I think she had some of the same evil instincts that Joaquin had but probably would have played with more intelligence and subtlety if he were willing to play it smart at the beginning.  What was unforgivably stupid was that after she agreed to go along with his decision, she let herself get tasked with delivering the admittedly overly complex and half baked story about the bag of rice.  It was Joaquin's idea... LET HIM TELL THE STORY!  ...then if it all goes south he becomes the target instead of her