S30.E01: It's Survivor Warfare

[CletusMusashi]

I would have said something like "We had a choice between beans or a tarp. We figured we might need the tarp if weather gets bad, but we'd need food no matter what, so we took the beans." Mentioning "deceive," was a bad idea to begin with, and that neutral thing made absolutely so sense whatsoever. it wasn't just a bad lie. It was a bad lie told while waving around a sign that said "What is this concept of 'good' that you hyoo-mons speak of?"

[Guest]

Actually the Boston Metro Area has almost twice the population of the Phoenix Metro Area. 

 

Does anyone have number of contestants from Boston?  Don't get me wrong, I am not from :Boston and a lot of the Massholes on these shows annoy me too.  

 

I'd imagine a big part of this is that the Boston people make a big deal about being from there and we are probably notice them more because of that, their accents and because of Boston Rob.

I'm curious where you're getting your stats from.  I don't see 8M population in Boston claimed anywhere, or even 8M in Massachusetts.  Not that it matters.  I just am tired of the Boston shirts on CBS reality tv, as if it's some unique accomplishment to live there.  

[Alapaki]

The only way to make a choice without getting a target on your back would be to take Deceive, tell everyone you took deceive and then read the clue out loud.

 

 

I liked someone's suggestion upthread of saying that the choice was between "food" and "shelter", because I think there is some precedent for that on the show (from last season, maybe, IIRC?).

 

But ultimately I think that the paranoia level re: HII's is so high by this point that anytime anyone gets to go off alone with a parchment provided by TPTB the assumption will always be that they have information on a HII.

[Wings]

The edit left out a lot.  They all thought that Joaquin and So got a clue to the idol.  So when discussing the vote there must have been talk about flushing it out.  She knew that both Joaquin and So would vote for her and if the others split their votes she was likely to go with only their 2 votes.  That is why she told.  She wanted them to know it was safe to vote So out.  

[Bryce Lynch]

I'm curious where you're getting your stats from.  I don't see 8M population in Boston claimed anywhere, or even 8M in Massachusetts.  Not that it matters.  I just am tired of the Boston shirts on CBS reality tv, as if it's some unique accomplishment to live there.  

I got it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metropolitan_areas_of_the_United_States

 

I do see that it includes Providence RI and much of NH.

[Wings]

I would have said something like "We had a choice between beans or a tarp. We figured we might need the tarp if weather gets bad, but we'd need food no matter what, so we took the beans." Mentioning "deceive," was a bad idea to begin with, and that neutral thing made absolutely so sense whatsoever. it wasn't just a bad lie. It was a bad lie told while waving around a sign that said "What is this concept of 'good' that you hyoo-mons speak of?"

 

 

Exactly.  "Fish hooks, beans or blanket was our choice," is what came to my mind.  A tarp has much more value than beans.  The no collars assumed their choice would be something like this before they went.  We are seeing again that the "smart" ones are not doing well!  

Edited February 26, 2015 by wings707

[CletusMusashi]

Everyone will think that you received an idol clue. But you can at least try to minimize the damage by making them think you chose the best "prize" for the group while you were at it. Saying "I chose to be neutral instead of sharing," does not communicate that. To anyone.

[Special K]

I got it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metropolitan_areas_of_the_United_States

 

I do see that it includes Providence RI and much of NH.

 

Yeah, and the NY Metropolitan area goes all the way to Pennsylvania!  I'm hoping that the next guy from East Stroudsberg on Survivor doesn't claim to live in NYC!

[Lamb18]

I went back to working on my PowerPoint presentation after posting here. I thought I was copying and pasting an image into my presentation, but what do I see following my third bullet point:

 

4. Lastly, does anyone understand why creepy coconut guy was holding his mouth open when they were coming in on the trucks?...

 

I am tempted to leave it in to see if anyone notices but I think it would be wiser to remove it.

[Alapaki]

They all thought that Joaquin and So got a clue to the idol.  So when discussing the vote there must have been talk about flushing it out.  She knew that both Joaquin and So would vote for her and if the others split their votes she was likely to go with only their 2 votes.  That is why she told.  She wanted them to know it was safe to vote So out.

 

 

That's plausible.  But if Max/Tyler/Shirin/Carolyn got together they had the numbers to split their votes against So and Joaquin and flush the HII that M/T/S were worried they had:

 

2 votes for So; 2 votes for Joaquin; 2 votes (by So/Joaquin) against Shirin or Carolyn.

 

Then, on the tie-break vote, So, Joaquin and Shirin/Carolyn can't vote.  Max, Tyler and either Shirin/Carolyn have a free shot to take out either So or Joaquin on a 3-0 vote.  And Carolyn saves her HII (which could've stayed secret).

 

Given Carolyn's demonstrated, knowledge of the game, I think that approach should've occurred to her.  

 

That's what makes me think that she truly believed that her neck was on the line at the time that she revealed her HII.

[cooksdelight]

Jeff said that, in testing, all three puzzles took the about the same amount of time to solve (on average), and that they should pick one based on their strengths/abilities so they would have an advantage over the average player. Maybe they felt their strength was the ability to take 50 pieces out of a bag quickly.

I looked at the size of the Honest bag of beans and thought "they will still think you are lying." The only way to make a choice without getting a target on your back would be to take Deceive, tell everyone you took deceive and then read the clue out loud.

These people cannot think up a better story than the one they told, which led to So's downfall. Tell them that there were three boxes, A, B and C. The only thing you knew beforehand that one box contained a portion of food, one box contained one comfort item, and one box contained a clue to a hidden idol. Underneath the box you picked was this little bag of beans. There was no need to tell anyone the truth, either tribe. Or to even hint at the Deceive/Honesty options.

[millennium]

There was an odd moment at about 42-44 minutes in (according to my DVR) where two tribe members were conspiring by the beach, apparently away from camp.  You can see the empty beach and surf in the background.   And then, someone enters the frame in the distance, crossing from right to left, walking alone along the beach.   Thing is, It doesn't look like anybody from the cast.   The two tribe members continue talking, taking no notice of the person crossing through the frame.    I suppose it could have been another cast member.   But it didn't look like it.   We were all "WHO is that?"

[cooksdelight]

A tourist? Crew member?

[choclatechip45]

I think the large population of people from Boston has to do with the bombings. I remember after 9/11 there seemed to be a lot of law enforcement people on CBS shows plus people who had a connection to the tragedy. I think another reason is because the accent is distinct.

[millennium]

I got it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metropolitan_areas_of_the_United_States

 

I do see that it includes Providence RI and much of NH.

 

As a proud native of the Providence Metropolitan area, I can assure you that I never considered my region to be part of the "Boston Metropolitan area."   Sure, Boston's an hour up I-95 and if you're hard-pressed for a plane into Logan you can fly into Greene outside of Providence, but otherwise it's apples and oranges.   It's even a different accent. 

 

Now, if you're talking "Red Sox Country," that's another thing ... 

[panthergirl13]

I went back to working on my PowerPoint presentation after posting here. I thought I was copying and pasting an image into my presentation, but what do I see following my third bullet point:

 

4. Lastly, does anyone understand why creepy coconut guy was holding his mouth open when they were coming in on the trucks?...

 

I am tempted to leave it in to see if anyone notices but I think it would be wiser to remove it.

This is everything to me.

[millennium]

These people cannot think up a better story than the one they told, which led to So's downfall. Tell them that there were three boxes, A, B and C. The only thing you knew beforehand that one box contained a portion of food, one box contained one comfort item, and one box contained a clue to a hidden idol. Underneath the box you picked was this little bag of beans. There was no need to tell anyone the truth, either tribe. Or to even hint at the Deceive/Honesty options.

 

I wonder what, if any, the penalty might have been if one of the teams had been bold enough to take BOTH bags of rice and the HII clue.  

[Sarahendipity]

From no collar tribe I was mad at Jenn who was making fun of that poor feather hair guy, he seemed to be honest and humble and I didn't appreciate her lying to his face about her finding Joe attractive. In a show where having good connections regardless if you like someone or if you could be friends with someone in real life is the key to the million dollars I think Jenn behaved stupidly. She could take her chance and have a dedicated ally right then and there, but she prefered the good looking Don Juan. I hope this doesn't come back to bite her later.

Dude was being creepy and possessive of someone he'd just met. Demanding a "do you like him better than me" from her was totally gross. And that extra long hug. I wanted to shower just watching it. And not from any odors.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Sarahendipity

[Guest]

That's plausible.  But if Max/Tyler/Shirin/Carolyn got together they had the numbers to split their votes against So and Joaquin and flush the HII that M/T/S were worried they had:

 

2 votes for So; 2 votes for Joaquin; 2 votes (by So/Joaquin) against Shirin or Carolyn.

 

Then, on the tie-break vote, So, Joaquin and Shirin/Carolyn can't vote.  Max, Tyler and either Shirin/Carolyn have a free shot to take out either So or Joaquin on a 3-0 vote.  And Carolyn saves her HII (which could've stayed secret).

 

Given Carolyn's demonstrated, knowledge of the game, I think that approach should've occurred to her.  

 

That's what makes me think that she truly believed that her neck was on the line at the time that she revealed her HII.

 

But I wonder if Carolyn had all those people willing to reveal their vote to her and to work with her before revealing she had an idol to them (or him).  I guess I'm agreeing that she felt she had to and it wasn't necessarily bad play.  In the end, she kept her idol and is in the game so it's hard to say she played it wrong.  

[ghoulina]

I think one reason for the vote-off was that Joaquim has reservations about writing certain names down. I mean, if he couldn't even figure out if there was a "Ch" in "Carolyn," do you really think he's ready to try "Shirin?"

 

And it wasn't just the "Ch", was it? It was really crazy, like Chirylin or something. In fact, it was so off-the-wall, that I had to double check whether or not that was how she spelled her name. I just couldn't imagine anyone misspelling it so badly. 

 

Of the 4,596 reasons I could never go on Survivor, having to eat beans would be #1. (what can I say? I had a bad childhood experience with beans just like the guy on TWD had with applesauce, only WAY WORSE.)

 

Would it help if I fed them to you ala the "airplane"? ;)

[LiveFromKevin]

There was an odd moment at about 42-44 minutes in (according to my DVR) where two tribe members were conspiring by the beach, apparently away from camp.  You can see the empty beach and surf in the background.   And then, someone enters the frame in the distance, crossing from right to left, walking alone along the beach.   Thing is, It doesn't look like anybody from the cast.   The two tribe members continue talking, taking no notice of the person crossing through the frame.    I suppose it could have been another cast member.   But it didn't look like it.   We were all "WHO is that?"

I think the scene you're talking about is between Mike and Dan (maybe when Dan was in the speedo), and I assumed it was Boston Rodney in the background. He's not in focus, but the frame looked similar enough.

[Asha124]

That was probably the ugliest immunity idol I have ever seen on this show.

 

The only people that seem likeable to me are Joe and Mike (even though he ate a scorpion). There is just something about them...

 

I can't believe no one choose the 5-piece puzzle. That was the easiest puzzle I have ever seen.

 

Glad to see So leave, I hope Joaquin will be next.

[Donny Ketchum]

Oh, and Carolyn's assertion that a woman had to go first to keep the tribe strong was very, very annoying. Why? Did Joaquin do something that was massively helpful in the challenge? So did. Why is she less useful then he is? Because she is a woman with less muscle mass? Just ugggghhhhh

I don't think she wanted a woman to go first.  But she probably figured that the men were going to push for her, So, or Shirin to go first, anyway, so there was no point in pushing for a man lest she put a target on her back.  Joaquin might've been an attractive option, too, but I'm betting she didn't think Tyler or Max would go for it.

 

It was a damn good premiere.  I think this will be a great season.  The tribes fell into their "collars," but didn't seem to mind.  The personalities are already distincting themselves.  And from what I could see, everyone got at least one confessional tonight.

 

The choice of methods for completing the Immunity Challenge was a very fun new layer, and one I hope they do again in a later season.  Also, I recognized the ten-piece puzzle from One-World!  The one at which Sabrina defeated Bill!  Neat!

 

No Collars: Vince is my only early dislike.  As was pointed out, he was really creepy with Jenn.  So far, I like Joe and Jenn.  Joe is smart, nice, and capable, and Jenn seems to have a decent idea as to how to deal with people.  Will, Nina, and Hali all seem okay, too.

 

Blue Collars: I think I'm gonna be in a love-hate relationship with both Mike and Dan.  Mike was dumb with the scorpion, and as Kelly pointed out, Dan has no social skills.  I don't see either one of them winning.  I can't really consider the women being mean girls to him when he was bringing quite a bit of that on himself.  So until they actually get mean, I like Kelly, Sierra, and Lindsey.  Rodney strikes me as an arrogant blowhard, though.  But he has the women on his side, so if they lose even one challenge pre-swap or pre-merge, Dan is probably taking the first hike for them.

 

White Collars: Despite her screwup, I do like Shirin.  And while Carolyn's a bit loud, I like her, too.  Tyler didn't immediately jump on the bandwagon to get rid of Carolyn, so I think I might like him, as well.  But that's about it.  I wanna see more of Max to see if I like him or not.  But I know I won't like Joaquin.  I immediately said, "Total tool" when I saw him.  And So is . . . gone.  And I liked her pre-show, and I felt a little bad for her that she lost so soon after just coming back after she and her sister had been forced to pull out San Juan del Sur.  But . . . seriously, that was a poor lie she told, and her Tribal Council performance was even worse.

 

I'm kind of over women predictably going first, though.  I think Zane was the last man to be voted out first in the Philippines, even though Rupert was the first to go overall in Blood vs. Water.

 

Looking forward to @Way Wes Jr's rankings of each tribe!

 

Hoping for a good season, too!  Three-tribe seasons are typically good, as Philippines showed throughout and Cagayan showed before it became way too obvious that Tony would win.  So I imagine this'll turn out good too.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Donny Ketchum

[wonald]

Vince is proof that Coach and Brandon had that secret affair in South Pacific as I long suspected.

[SlackerInc]

It's amazing that people who have watched the show still get bossy about building shelter. That is just again and again such a rookie mistake.

 

It was an interesting wrinkle, to offer choices of different ways through the challenge.  I thought they all panicked too soon with the keys though.

 

I'm bummed because she's so hot, and more likable than Carolyn.

 

Huh, really?  She's hot, granted; but I feel just the opposite about the likability.  "Neutral", srsly?

 

I really like Carolyn and the two guys that voted with her, and I was so nervous that she was going to join the ignominious group who have gone home with an idol in her pocket, but she obviously had sussed out the situation despite the signs that seemed to be going against her.

 

I would have said something like "We had a choice between beans or a tarp. We figured we might need the tarp if weather gets bad, but we'd need food no matter what, so we took the beans." Mentioning "deceive," was a bad idea to begin with, and that neutral thing made absolutely so sense whatsoever. it wasn't just a bad lie. It was a bad lie told while waving around a sign that said "What is this concept of 'good' that you hyoo-mons speak of?"

 

Yes, this.  You don't even want the possibility of "deceive" to be in anyone's minds.

[Jobiska]

I, too, think Carolyn's words were basically an abbreviation for "[Every season, the first few voteouts are almost always women to 'keep the tribe strong,' and I suspect this tribe is also going to say] we need to vote out women first to keep the tribe strong, [so I'll run with that assumption and make sure it's So and not I who is voted out]."  

I'll admit I like her so far, but even if I didn't, I'd guess this was her line of thinking rather than blindly spouting that women needed to go first because duh.

Yeah, I think that CreepyVince was catching raindrops on his tongue in the truck, because how "playful" and "childlike" and "free-spirited" that was.  

I'll cosign that that was a raccoon, but it was a raccoon who has to live by its wits in the jungle, so it was svelte, unlike the raccoons here in my neighborhood close to the center of Philadelphia, who apparently find plenty to eat while barely lifting a paw.  And I (perhaps biasedly) think that there are many fewer contestants from Philly on reality shows overall than there are from Boston.  

ETA:  It may be a good thing that Jeff is referring to the tribes by collar names rather than tribe names, since the White Collar tribe sounded uncomfortably like "Messiah" to me.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Jobiska

[barbedwire]

"Feathered Fabio" - that is great!!

 

What is a "coconut vendor?"  Is that a person who sells coconuts roadside in Florida or Hawaii?

[iMonrey]

I like when they have three tribes of six, because it makes it much easier to familiarize yourself with all 18 contestants. And I do think there are some interesting people on this season. But I really, really hate the conceit of dividing them up based on occupation and "approach to life." That's just as bullshitty as the Brains, Brawns and Beauty division, wherein, seemingly, almost any of those 18 people could have easily been on any one of those three tribes. 

 

I strongly suspect the vast majority of these contestants could just as easily be labeled any of the other two "collar" designations as the one they happened to be selected for. I doubt they even cast based on this gimmick. They cast the same stereotypes and pigeon holes they always do then exaggerated their bios to fit into whichever division made the most sense, balance-wise. I don't buy Juaquin and So, for example, as being any more "white collar" than anyone else in this cast. Few successful business people can take more than a month off work to appear on a reality show. These are all the same post-college grads sitting around with nothing better to do as usual.

 

I also think So's inability to tell a convincing lie extended to her given excuse for targeting Carolyn. I suspect she knew Carolyn caught her looking for the idol and figured she was a threat just because of that. This asinine excuse about "not stepping up" can't even be demonstrated after only measly challenge with limited opportunities to do just that. Shireen was the obvious boot after that challenge.

[stretch]

I can't believe Survivor is the show that's drawn me out of lurkerdom, but, here we are.

 

I'm afraid Mike's going to have to go soon, because I dissolve into screeching, hysterical laughter every time he opens his mouth. Dude sounds *exactly* like a Muppet. We kept saying, "That can't be real. That can't be real." every time he spoke.

 

Creepy Coconuts is not the quirky, fun weirdo they were hoping for. That guy set off my alarm bells immediately. That's a level 10 stalker freak, right there and I'm soooo uncomfortable watching him.

[limecoke]

Not much to say at this point except I like the concept of team division along with lack of stunt casting or returning players. So, good job show.

Question. When did the male survivors decide to discard their clothes and just run around in their underpants? Seems like it's been a few seasons now. It's kind of an ewwwwww thing for me. To the ones who stay clothed, I thank you.

[ghoulina]

What is a "coconut vendor?"  Is that a person who sells coconuts roadside in Florida or Hawaii?

 

A cashier at the local Publix? I've bought coconuts there before. 

[Donny Ketchum]

A cashier at the local Publix? I've bought coconuts there before. 

I take it you're a Floridian, @ghoulina?  That's where all of the Publix stores are! :)

[ghoulina]

I take it you're a Floridian, ghoulina?  That's where all of the Publix stores are! :)

 

LOL, not currently, but I spent a good ten years there. 

[Richness]

Another thought: If you're going to make a Harry Potter reference, I think Dan looks more like Hagrid than Dumbledore. But I guess everyone likes Hagrid. *shrug*

 

The only way to make a choice without getting a target on your back would be to take Deceive, tell everyone you took deceive and then read the clue out loud.  

 

But if you pause on the image of the Deceive clue, it says 'The clue is only for you two..." I take that as a strong indicator that they couldn't share it with the others.

 It may be a good thing that Jeff is referring to the tribes by collar names rather than tribe names, since the White Collar tribe sounded uncomfortably like "Messiah" to me.

 

I got that impression too, especially when I heard angelic chimes shortly after Jeff said the name. But then again, the sound folks played the same chimes after the other tribe names as well.

[Lamb18]

I was thinking more of Harry Potter's uncle for Dan. Same figure.

[eringogreen]

Jenn took me through a string of emotions. At first, I kind of took a liking to her. Then I noticed that everyone on the tribe seemed to be drawn to her and got the feeling that the edit was trying to make viewers like her, too, so I immediately flopped just to be rebellious. When we got to see some of her personality and her jest-ful way of handling and narrating the bizzarre situation with Vince, I couldn't fight it anymore - she's at least going to keep me entertained while she is around!

 

One thing that frustrated me with the interaction was how she handled Vince's immediate jealousy and in her TH said "I think I know how to handle him." She was backed into a corner and probably completely surprised, so I can't promise I would have handled it better, but I wish that she would have just been straightforward with him and saved herself some trouble. "Yes, I do feel a connection with Joe. I'm not going to talk to you about who I find attractive because it's not your business. I'd like to continue our alliance, but right now your actions are confusing me. Please respect my space and let's focus on tribe unity for now."

 

For one thing, if she hurt his feelings or pissed him off or whatever, it wouldn't put her on the outs with the tribe. For another, he sniffed out that she wasn't being genuine, so she set him on high alert, anyway. Now, it will just be more sneaky and paranoid instead of out in the open.

[eringogreen]

And it wasn't just the "Ch", was it? It was really crazy, like Chirylin or something. In fact, it was so off-the-wall, that I had to double check whether or not that was how she spelled her name. I just couldn't imagine anyone misspelling it so badly.

When I saw "Cherilyn" (or whatever it was) on the parchment, I immediately knew So was out. I just KNEW it was Joaquin that spelled it like that, it fit with the vibes he gave off all episode.

 

I wish Jeff had commented about it. Does anyone remember when he finally got annoyed in Thailand and had to hold up a vote and scold the group for not making it clear enough who the vote was for? Clay voted for Ghandia (I think) and wrote like 8 different names on it ("Denver Diva" being one). God help me that I remember all of that, but my friend and I bring it up from time to time because we got such a kick out of it.

Edited February 27, 2015 by eringogreen

[enlightenedbum]

 

Jeff said that, in testing, all three puzzles took the about the same amount of time to solve (on average), and that they should pick one based on their strengths/abilities so they would have an advantage over the average player.  Maybe they felt their strength was the ability to take 50 pieces out of a bag quickly.

In terms of public figures, Probst ranks as just slightly more trustworthy than Roger Goodell and less trustworthy than Brian Williams for me, so I don't think this means a whole lot.

[iMonrey]

Question. When did the male survivors decide to discard their clothes and just run around in their underpants? Seems like it's been a few seasons now. It's kind of an ewwwwww thing for me.

 

This happens every year, and it's because the producers force them to wear certain clothes before dumping them off on the beach ("costumes" chosen to reflect their occupations or characters, what have  you) - clothes that immediately prove to be uncomfortable and downright inappropriate for the type of work they need to do around camp. And for some unknown, dumb reason, the show refuses to provide the men with show-approved swimwear which would eliminate the need for "blurring" the crotches to hide the bulgy and jiggly bits. Although I've noticed they've become more lax about the blurring lately.

 

Also, why couldn't White Collar have been given White Buffs? Didn't they have any? Couldn't they make some? I supposed they thought white buffs wouldn't stay white for very long, or would film off-color or something. By the same token, No Collar should have been given No Buffs. If the whole schtick is that they don't follow the rules they shouldn't be given the same kinds of "collars" the other tribes have to wear.

 

 

 

[Drogo]

(Conflicting shelter ideas with Vince)

Joe:

At some point, nice goes away.

My 8 year old daughter, the Khaleesi:

Um, at SOME POINT, it's going to be night, and it's going to rain, and feathers only keep you warm if you're a bird.

[henripootel]

Another thought: If you're going to make a Harry Potter reference, I think Dan looks more like Hagrid than Dumbledore. But I guess everyone likes Hagrid. *shrug*

If you're just going off chin pubes, Dan reminds me more of Todd Hoffman from Gold Rush, which is very unflattering if you watch that show.

Edited February 27, 2015 by henripootel

[Drogo]

Khaleesi, regarding Dan:

"Dad, I'm not going to be able to watch this show with you if he doesn't put his pants back on."

[Hera]

I am disappointed that they made the White Collar people all Type A personalities.  Not everyone who works in an office is cut throat and/or an executive. I guess that's the type that has the most potential for drama, but it doesn't feel like a fair representation of the classes.

To be fair, the tribe designations were also based on "approach to life", so I think that's where the Type A part comes in. I completely agree that office workers aren't necessarily cut-throat and the majority aren't even executives. Really, these tribal designations are a rehash of Brains vs. Brawn vs. Beauty and once again, the tribe full of people who are high achievers and who are normally in positions of power in their real lives is falling apart.

 

I loved the "make a choice" parts of the challenge - something new and it adds a really interesting aspect to not only the challenge itself, but also to the team dynamics.  Overall, a pretty good start!

 

I think it goes along with what a lot of contestants (and forum posters!) have said - a lot of Survivor success depends on who is in your tribe (and luck about the idol and challenges).  Being the best strategist or knowing a lot about the game can actually be a disadvantage if you're playing with people who don't really know the game and/or who are incapable of understanding strategy.  But I think his knowledge will help him make the best of it, rather than imploding or making stupid impulsive decisions.  He voted with the majority and stayed quiet at tribal, two super important things this early in the game.  

I was very pleasantly surprised by the decision-making aspect of the challenge and hope it stays. It has the potential to stop some one of the complaints about these "do a series of tasks involving various physical challenges and then a puzzle at the end". In the past, one tribe tends to dominate these because they have the best all-around skills, but if tribes can choose some of the tasks and the puzzle, we might actually get different winners from week to week.

 

I also agree with the point about people needing to adapt their game to the tribe they're on. We've seen so many people in the past bemoan the fact that their tribemates were "really playing" the game when the truth was that the tribemates weren't playing the game according to the script predetermined by the person doing the complaining. I think Max's knowledge of the game is probably an asset, but it's all for nothing if he too rigid an idea of how he wants to play the game. It's also all for nothing if it turns out he has no people skills.

 

I think it technically was "easier" in that it didn't seem to really require a lot of puzzle skills - each line of words was in a different color, and the pieces seemed to break mid-letter, and the border was pretty obvious.  That said, it was A LOT of pieces, and was going to take a lot of time to first sort out, and then to assemble.  I think the 5 piece puzzle could have been harder than it looked because it was all one color with no patterns or designs, and some of the pieces looked like they could appear to fit together in a few ways.  It could take a few minutes to figure out how to put those together, but I do think it would be faster than the 50 pieces.  I think the 10 piece puzzle was the best choice, especially because they could see what they were going to have to put together rather than going in to the other two blind.  I admit, though, that this opinion is based on my own puzzle strengths and weaknesses.  I expect the view of the difficulty of the puzzles varies a lot.

Agreed. I think the five piece puzzle could potentially have been fiendish, especially if people didn't know it was supposed to come out as a square. The solution seems stupidly simple once you get it—because it is only five pieces, after all—but you'd be surprised at how long it can take you to get there. Add a bunch of people screaming behind you to hurry up, and I could easily see a tribe blowing a huge advantage on that puzzle, the same way the White Collar tribe did on the 50 piece puzzle.

 

I thought the 10 piece puzzle also gave an advantage to the tribes that chose it in that the people waiting on the mat could see how it was progressing and shout advice to the designated puzzle-doer. It allowed the chance for the puzzle-doer to swap out with someone who was confident they could solve it faster.

 

I feel fairly certain there was more that happened between her and Tyler and Max before tribal council that made her so confident that she was safe. Because it was clear those two, Tyler and Max, were deciding their vote together. And speaking of the idol, I too was surprised that Carolyn so quickly told Tyler she had it when she'd indicated that it was Max and Shireen she was close to. I wonder if that will come back and bite her. Tyler is right now one of my ones to watch. His talking heads kind of indicated to me that he's smart, possibly pretty sneaky and likely can play this game.

But Max also said something about needing to get Tyler out because he was the "wild card", which I thought was dumb. If you're already in an alliance with three out of the six members of your tribe, then Tyler would be stupid not to vote with you—no one is going to force a tie at the first tribal council. Also, everyone is a wild card before the first vote. You have no idea where the alliances lie and what you can expect from people until you've been through at least one vote. Just ask So.

 

ETA: Clearly, I was not paying attention during this scene. As truthaboutluv correctly pointed out below, Max was not talking about getting Tyler out, but about bringing him in to vote with his group. I rewatched the episode this weekend and realized my mistake.

 

Speaking of So, I got the vibe that she was a class "mean girl" in high school all grown up. I am not sorry to see her go.

 

I really hate how often the "we need to keep the tribe strong" mentality goes unquestioned at the beginning of the game. You guys have lost. You pitted your best and worst against the other tribes' best and worst and you came up short. And as often as tribes get dragged down by their "weakest" player, it is also the case that the "strongest" players (whatever that means—physical strength often doesn't mean very much, and it's usually handy to have a light player or two to hoist up on shoulders or put in wheelbarrows or whatever else they have them do) weren't as strong as those on the other tribes. I don't blame the people who are perceived as strong for making this argument, but I don't understand why anyone else goes along with it. If you vote off people on the basis of their perceived strength, then you're basically signing up to be voted out once everyone weaker than you is gone. A surprising number of people don't seem to realize this until they're the ones on the chopping block, at which point it's too late to do anything other than pray for a merge or a tribal swap because they've already voted out their potential allies.

 

Which is to say that I'm glad Carolyn made it through, but I think it's futile to try to argue that she's "just as athletic as anyone" or that all So did was "untie a bunch of knots". I'm also glad that she used her idol to get in with Tyler. I love watching someone use their idol to build an alliance and I hope this signals a wider shift away from people keeping the idol all to themselves. The latter is a sound strategy, but boring to watch, and some players are able to parlay possession of the idol into getting a much more powerful position in the game than they would have had if they had kept it a secret.

 

As a coconut vendor, I obviously seek the truth.

Vince was my pre-season pick for entertainment value and as soon as he said those words (the first words out of his mouth on this show), I knew I had chosen well. But then he got really weird with Jenn (it looked like he tried to kiss her at one point), which is good for drama, but also a shame for her. If he can keep his hands to himself, I won't feel bad for enjoying the crazy, but if he keeps with the too-long hugs, I will just feel bad for her and hope he gets voted out quickly.

 

All in all, I think this is going to be a fun season. I hope it has the pre-merge excitement of Brains vs. Brawn vs. Beauty and the post-merge glory of Blood vs. Water 2.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Hera

[Kromm]

Boston guy and Vince are like the two worst guys women meet in bars.  One trying to impress you with a too personal story and the other one hugging you way too long. Too bad they can't have tazers on the show.

I don't know about tazers, but you could carry in some pepper spray relatively easily.

I have a gut feeling that Psycho Vince has been pepper sprayed a few times in his life already.

[Rick Kitchen]

 

I was mad at Jenn who was making fun of that poor feather hair guy, he seemed to be honest and humble and I didn't appreciate her lying to his face about her finding Joe attractive

 

The poor feather hair creeper?

[Kromm]

Speaking of So, I got the vibe that she was a class "mean girl" in high school all grown up. I am not sorry to see her go.

I think So has to a degree been a victim of the editing and the weird dynamics of a 6 person tribe (where you have to find a point of attack relatively quickly).

I can't help but recall that she originally really didn't seem comfortable with the lying strategy and just adapted badly to it--grasping for the first hold she could on a strategy to differentiate herself from the other girls.

Of course it never occurs for girls to stick together on this show. What a shame.

[Kromm]

From no collar tribe I was mad at Jenn who was making fun of that poor feather hair guy, he seemed to be honest and humble and I didn't appreciate her lying to his face about her finding Joe attractive. In a show where having good connections regardless if you like someone or if you could be friends with someone in real life is the key to the million dollars I think Jenn behaved stupidly. She could take her chance and have a dedicated ally right then and there, but she prefered the good looking Don Juan. I hope this doesn't come back to bite her later.

With respect, that's an odd read on a guy who seems kind of like he's a psycho--pushing his attention of her instantly, and then conveniently turning on her when her attempts to be diplomatic about his creeper behavior showed she wasn't in to him as much as his fantasy.

I'm wondering if you missed the earlier part of the episode with his other behavior, or perhaps lost track of the sub-plot with the two of them and/or didn't identify him properly (because he added the feathers later--in the earlier scene he didn't have them).

People get put in jail for stuff like this. It reads almost exactly like cases in the real world where a stalker turns on his object of obsession and makes her into a target. In the early stages of that the woman usually tries to be neutral and not reject the guy overtly, and that's exactly what happened here too--except here there's a gameplay component that she didn't want to make a game enemy as well. Which she probably has anyway, because psycho stalker types like this ARE paranoid and jealous, like he has been, and in the game the easiest way for his disappointment to manifest is for him to try and get her voted out.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Kromm

[BigRedCheese]

 

When did the male survivors decide to discard their clothes and just run around in their underpants?

 

 

Season 1 when Richard Hatch did it, but he also discarded the underpants.

[millennium]

"Feathered Fabio" - that is great!!

 

What is a "coconut vendor?"  Is that a person who sells coconuts roadside in Florida or Hawaii?

 

I know there have been many times in my life, usually after a long day of housework or extreme base-jumping, when I have lamented the lack of roadside coconut vendors in my vicinity.   "Where are all the coconut vendors?" I want to scream.   "Driving down some lost highway with mouths agape and the breeze twining the feathers in their hair???"   But I say nothing.   In silence I mark time, knowing that one day a very special coconut vendor will capture the public's imagination and pave the way for coconut vendors on every street corner, in every city across the land, hawking their hairy brown fruit and bringing joy to the people at last.    This is my dream. 

[truthaboutluv]

But Max also said something about needing to get Tyler out because he was the "wild card", which I thought was dumb.

 

 

I don't think he was suggesting getting Tyler out. He, Shireen and Carolyn were talking about going after So and he mentioned needing Tyler onboard because he's the wildcard which makes sense since So and Joaquin were clearly aligned. Max's argument was that in a tribe of just six, it could have easily been a 3-3 tie, so they needed Tyler onboard. And then the next scene was him and Tyler discussing what the best thing to do was.