S01.E04: Hero

[queenanne]

What really gets me about this show are the quiet moments. Like Jimmy's crestfallen face when Betsy Kettleman tells him he's the kind of lawyer guilty people hire. (Echoing Jesse calling Saul a criminal lawyer.) Or Jimmy trying to put the whammy on his answering machine by wiggling his fingers at it. (And when that finally pays off, it's with a whopping seven messages.)

 

In a way, it just occurred to me though, to be profiled that way will really hurt Jimmy, because clearly he could just as easily be Chuck.  Except for this little indefinable niggle no one can put their finger on, except that just to look at Jimmy, is to see a sleazy ambulance chaser.  Why?  Jimmy clearly shares genetic brains and talent with Chuck.  Why does (or did) Chuck scream white collar kindly jurisprudence, whereas Jimmy screams "if you get in bed with this oily customer, better bring a squeegee?"

[Duke2801]

I thought he kept all the money in the found wallet but gave Jimmy money from his own wallet for the watch. I'll have to rewatch.

 

I guess I have a mental block about this. I'm apparently the only one who doesn't get it. I do understand that the watch was fake, as was the money in the found wallet, and that the aim of Jimmy's con was to have the chump give him real money for the fake watch. It just seems to me that the scam could fail if the guy gives Jimmy some money from the found wallet instead of from his own.

 

I'm pretty sure that Jimmy/Saul had the wallet, which had what? Like $1000 worth of fake money.  The other guy ended up with the "Rolex" which he believe is worth several thousand.  Therefore he thinks he's getting the way better end of the deal, and figures it won't hurt to give Jimmy/Saul a few hundred of his own money.

 

The con only work if Jimmy/Saul has the wallet.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Duke2801

[Ohwell]

Why does (or did) Chuck scream white collar kindly jurisprudence, whereas Jimmy screams "if you get in bed with this oily customer, better bring a squeegee?"

I love Jimmy (Saul) but he does remind me of a used car salesman.  Plus, there's usually a look of desperation in his eyes, even when he's trying not to look desperate.  I also think it's the hairstyle and something about the way he talks. 

 

I hate Betsy, and I hope the Kettlemans live to regret that they didn't hire a criminal lawyer (TM Jesse).

[panthergirl13]

I'm the chumpiest chump who ever chumped, and I totally fell for Jimmy's billboard scam. When the guy said "took you long enough," I groaned. Like you, I felt in retrospect that the cold open should've tipped me off. But nope.

Hahaha here too. My son and I were both laughing at ourselves because we were fooled during the cold open, and again during the billboard scene. (and usually both of us see stuff coming a mile away)

[kieyra]

Apparently I've watched too much "Hustle" (UK) and similar shows because I spotted both scams, and knew how the mechanics of the wallet/watch scam would work as soon as Saul suggested the alternate route and the mark saw the wallet. No fault of the show, really, although I never knew what to expect from Walter White's capers.

Overall, though, I want to like this show more than I currently do. I still feel like I'm waiting for it to get started, and I was surprised to see we're somehow already on episode four. Billboard war just isn't that exciting, and I'm beyond ready for Mike Ehrmantraut to get up on out of that tollbooth. Stakes didn't go nearly as high with the Kettlemans as I was expecting. Nacho isn't a compelling villain either. I guess the villain is "drudgery", and watching Saul go through it is tiring.

[TrininisaScorp]

Patrick Fabian has always read waspy douche (even as Prof Lansky in Saved By the Bell College Years) and I loved watching his Hamlin get played to the nth degree by Jimmy.  

 

Jimmy's quiet moments (at the salon, in him office) are my favorite b/c I feel like you see through the bluff and bravado into someone who is just trying to get by.  Odenkirk does the heartbreak in Jimmy's eyes too well; I'm such a mark b/c I fall for it, but it keeps him sympathetic.

 

What's the deal with him and the female lawyer?  There is def something there, right?  I liked her smile after Hamlin walked out of the office in a huff. 

[Umbelina]

although I never knew what to expect from Walter White's capers

 

Jesse:

 

"Whatever you think is going to happen, the exact same total opposite will happen."  Ha.  Good times.

 

The wallet thing may have been an old scam, but it got me too, until negotiations started that is, then I began to wonder.  I didn't call the billboard stunt until the dude said "it took you too long" or whatever it was. 

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Jimmy and the Lawyer Lady have had sex, been friends, maybe more.  Late night sex calls?  He also seemed to have once worked at that office in some capacity.

 

I loved that he was wearing his "University of American Samoa" in the nail salon scene.  Cracked me up.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Umbelina

[editorgrrl]

What's a cold open, please? TIA

The stuff before the opening credits. This episode, Slippin' Jimmy in Chicago. First episode, Gene in Omaha.

[Quilt Fairy]

For those that didn't 'get' the wallet con, the point is that (from the view of the mark) they have 2 items of unequal value that they are trying to split, $1000  cash and a $3000 watch. So the mark tells Jimmy "Let me have the watch and I'll give you the wallet with the $1000 and the $580 I have on me."  So the mark would end up with $3000 - 580 = $2420, and Jimmy would have $1000 + 580 = $1580. Which is still not even but is better than the $2K difference they started with, and the mark can always say, "You know, I still have to pawn the watch, can't guarantee what I'm going to get for it, so this is a good deal for you."  I hope that explains it better for you. The thing only works if the mark is greedy and thinks he's pulling one over on the conman. (And I learned everything I know about this con from the excellent George C. Scott movie The Flim-Flam Man.  Be sure to watch it if you come across it.)

 

BTW, I'm thrilled to find out that Bob Odenkirk grew up in my neck of the woods (Western suburbs of Chicago), and that Vince Gilligan is letting him correct little things for verisimilitude, like the mention of State Street and Michigan Avenue in the pilot (which are the 2 major downtown streets in Chicago) and Cermak Road in this episode (which is the equivalent of Main Street in the suburb of Cicero). To the poster who asked about Al Capone upthread, Cicero was a very white, blue-collar, brick bungalow town, and was very mobbed-up for decades.

 

Overall, though, I want to like this show more than I currently do. I still feel like I'm waiting for it to get started,

I mostly agree, but there is enough sharp dialog to keep me in for the long term. According to VG and BO (sorry about that, Bob), a lot of this early build-up is going to pay off in the 2nd half of the season.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Quilt Fairy

[shapeshifter]

A Gladys Kravitz situation perhaps? ( anyone remember "Bewitched"?)

Yes. And Walter White's neighbors too.

Quilt Fairy, I thought the mark only had $80 on him, not $580, but I didn't have access to captions.

[queenanne]

Pretty sure also he said $580, but that's instructive too because that's another potential thing that could happen to gum up the works - you have to know to choose a mark that has that type of money on them, and doesn't have to or try to drag you to an ATM or similar.

[Perfect Xero]

The mark counted out the $80 and then gave Jimmy $580.

 

For those that didn't 'get' the wallet con, the point is that (from the view of the mark) they have 2 items of unequal value that they are trying to split, $1000  cash and a $3000 watch. So the mark tells Jimmy "Let me have the watch and I'll give you the wallet with the $1000 and the $580 I have on me."  So the mark would end up with $3000 - 580 = $2420, and Jimmy would have $1000 + 580 = $1580. Which is still not even but is better than the $2K difference they started with, and the mark can always say, "You know, I still have to pawn the watch, can't guarantee what I'm going to get for it, so this is a good deal for you."  I hope that explains it better for you. The thing only works if the mark is greedy and thinks he's pulling one over on the conman. (And I learned everything I know about this con from the excellent George C. Scott movie The Flim-Flam Man.  Be sure to watch it if you come across it.)

 

Well, that and a real gold Rolex would cost much more that $3000. Which is why the guy was so eager to pay Jimmy "half".

[Umbelina]

Pretty sure also he said $580, but that's instructive too because that's another potential thing that could happen to gum up the works - you have to know to choose a mark that has that type of money on them, and doesn't have to or try to drag you to an ATM or similar.

Pretty sure that's why Jimmy was drinking with him all night, he probably noticed a wad in the wallet, or got enough information from the guy to assume he at least had a couple hundred on him.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Who was really the "Hero?"

 

I say it was Chuck and that for all their lives, it has always been Chuck.  I love how VG pays off set-ups!  This one is right up there with the best.

 

If Chuck was just to remain a near-invalid with no seeming wits about him, the entire show would be dragged down.  I was confident we'd see a most interesting character emerge.  He so loves Jimmy that despite his certain and very real suffering (It matters not what WE think is "real."  It matters that this human feels that pain as if being set aflame.)  he had to figure out what trouble his little brother had caused more than he needed to take care of himself.  Hero.   

 

I also note that the conversation with Jimmy was at a much quicker pace with much higher concepts being engaged.  Chuck was right back in his element for at least a few seconds as he recalled a prosecutor (Berlanger?).  I could easily see that this guy was savvy.  The fact he was a founding partner of HHM says he once was all that.  I am going to love watching the arc of Chuck.   I imagine a very, very satisfying legal wipeout of the vipers at HHM as McKean gives a tour de force performance in a conference or court room is a comin'.  Of course, I can also see a complete and total screw job which only feeds a super deep and fierce resentment of the judicial system in Saul.

 

Will Jimmy's Cook County arrest have been related to messing with the wrong mark on a repeat of scam we saw tonight?

 

I am soooo gonna love watching Mrs. Kettleman get hers.   Nobody does such as deliciously as VG and Co.  I hope that arc is drawn out until at least next season.  

 

I'm also super curious when Jimmy will stop fighting Mike for each and every validation stamp/dollar saved.  That is liable to be a most significant moment in their relationship.

 

Nacho is one helluvan impressive villain.  With Saul's guidance, he is gonna be a contenduh in the gang world of ABQ.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Lonesome Rhodes

[Ottis]

But I loved that the neighbor was watching Chuck the whole time as he stole the newspaper from her driveway. That's a real WTF moment when you see someone doing that while wearing aluminum covering.

 

 

I struggle with Chuck. Everything he does is played out so slowly, it is aggravating. The pointless banter with Jimmy where Chuck says the same thing over and over (i.e. hard work is good for Jimmy). Then the look out the window to see other copies of the paper on driveways, and a looooooooong sequence where Chuck goes and gets a paper and brings it in to see the article about Jimmy. You could see that coming from before the driveway glance. Getting there was painful.

 

And on the neighbor, I assume neighbors have seen this behavior before. She didn't call the cops or react, so it looked more like, "There is that weird guy again."

 

Chuck most certainly must amount to something important. Maybe in relation to Nacho. But everything seems to grind to a halt when he is on screen, unless I remember Lenny and Squiggy during it.

 

I love the internal battle Jimmy has going on, between making money and trying to build a legit business. The guy isn't dumb. Just really raw.

[peeayebee]

For those that didn't 'get' the wallet con...

That would be me! Anyway, I just rewatched and saw that I'd missed the guy first trading the fake cash for the watch before he pulled money out of his own wallet. That's all I needed to see.

 

 (And I learned everything I know about this con from the excellent George C. Scott movie The Flim-Flam Man.  Be sure to watch it if you come across it.)

I saw that movie in the theatre when it first came out! I was just 8, but now you know how old I am.

[SailorGirl]

I mostly agree, but there is enough sharp dialog to keep me in for the long term. According to VG and BO (sorry about that, Bob), a lot of this early build-up is going to pay off in the 2nd half of the season.

 

I do find myself getting a bit frustrated with how slow it seems to be moving, but then I remember who the creators and writers are and then I relax and just let the story unfold as its going to because I know everything they are doing has reason behind it -- its actually part of the art of the show in how they are using the slow pace to build the characters -- as I mentioned upthread, this week it was the clothes, and like an onion, the layers are peeling off to reveal more and more. This happened to me with BB too, things seemed insignificant and pointless and then BAM! Keep in mind it is still early days for this show and they are building everything from scratch -- and, as we all need to remind ourselves, this ISN'T Breaking Bad redux, and it shouldn't be. If that's what people are expecting and/or looking for, then they are going to be disappointed no matter what. 

 

Take the relationship with Kim -- in Jimmy's first interaction with her, we (or at least I) got the impression that she made (perhaps a drunken?) mistake with Jimmy at some point in the past and now has to deal with him occasionally checking in for a booty call or needing something lawyerly from her and all she wants is for him to just disappear (if you've ever made a drunken mistake that keeps popping up, you'll know exactly what I mean -- damn you tequila!) 

But then this week, we see that she reaches out to him too -- calling him to go to a movie, and then visiting him at the salon to try to talk him out of the billboard (she didn't know it was a scam either, so I don't feel so bad!)  She clearly has some genuine feelings for him -- what those actually are remain to be unveiled -- and her little smile when Hamlin is complaining about the scam shows she kind of got a kick out of it and that perhaps she thinks Hamlin is kind of a douche and maybe deserved it a little.

Plus, the side of Jimmy we saw when they were in the salon chairs talking was very "human" and not at all smarmy -- he was genuinely expressing concern for her as a professional and how she could do much better at a different law firm. I felt like we saw a real connection/friendship there. He wasn't trying to put anything over on her or get anything from her -- a touching rarity in the life of James M. McGill. 

 

I think part of the problem is that people are used to faster-paced shows where a lot is revealed in a short time. But that's just not how VG et al work, and I'm okay with that.

 

Edited February 25, 2015 by SailorGirl

[ALenore]

Just read this at IndieWire:

The name on the ID Jimmy's con artist partner uses is "Henry Gondorff," AKA Paul Newman's character from the classic "The Sting"; a perfect choice for the small time cons they're pulling.

 

Didn't catch that at all, it's a great in-joke. 

[pasdetrois]

 

I remember who the creators and writers are and then I relax and just let the story unfold as its going to because I know everything they are doing has reason behind it

I'm with you. Occasionally I get impatient with the pace, but in exchange I appreciate smart writing and the great acting (and the NM locations). Although we've had Breaking Bad, Mad Men, The Wire and other great series, quality TV is still rare and I appreciate anything from trusted teams like Gilligan and Odenkirk. I'm pretty sure I won't love BCS as much as BB, but that's OK. I appreciate watching Odenkirk's work.

 

Thanks to whomever pointed out the actor who plays Patsy on Getting On (on HBO). That little series is my current favorite, and I never would have recognized the actor in BCS.

 

I'm enjoying Chuck's story. I know some people with schizo-type disorders, and they are not comical or terrifying one-note personalities. A lesser production would have made Chuck into a joke or a villain, but we see his delusions as well as his humanity and his smarts. I think McKean is doing a great job in the role.

 

Kim's character is growing on me as they begin to flesh her story out.

 

I'm slightly distracted by Jimmy's toupees and wigs, but perhaps obvious toupees are part of the character.

Edited February 25, 2015 by pasdetrois

[Nashville]

The mark counted out the $80 and then gave Jimmy $580.

 

Well, that and a real gold Rolex would cost much more that $3000. Which is why the guy was so eager to pay Jimmy "half".

...and also why the mark is yelling "SUCKER!!!" once he and the "Rollex" get some distance from Jimmy.

[Auntie Anxiety]

Vince Gilligan et al. have earned my trust and I know they are going to take us on an interesting journey here.  And unlike other shows, the writers believe that the audience is smart and they don't talk down to us.  I've watched a ton of television in my day, and nothing has ever come close to the finale of BB.  We all know that finales oftentimes suck (I have a gnawing feeling that Mad Men is going to go the same way as The Sopranos which, well, I just can't.....).  I'm on board for the long haul with BCS.

 

Seems to me like Kim(?) has had a long-standing relationship with the McGills.  She asks about Chuck (when Jimmy called her, it was the first thing she said--Is Chuck okay?), has an easy chemistry with Jimmy and understands who he is and what he is about.  Surely we'll be shown their backstory at some point.  

[LoneHaranguer]

 

...and also why the mark is yelling "SUCKER!!!" once he and the "Rollex" get some distance from Jimmy.

Can you really get anywhere near $3000 when pawning a $5000 Rolex? I thought 50% of resale value was about all you could expect for jewelry. Jimmy's partner should have been dressed better to sell the idea that the watch was anything but the counterfeit it was.

[Totale]

But then this week, we see that she reaches out to him too -- calling him to go to a movie, and then visiting him at the salon to try to talk him out of the billboard (she didn't know it was a scam either, so I don't feel so bad!) 

 

I'm not sure Jimmy thought of the billboard as a scam vehicle at that point, either, I think it was just a big FU,JMM.  Once he was ordered to remove it he came up with the way to capitalize it to far more than its original publicity value via the scam.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Totale

[Ohwell]

Apparently I've watched too much "Hustle" (UK) and similar shows because I spotted both scams, and knew how the mechanics of the wallet/watch scam would work as soon as Saul suggested the alternate route and the mark saw the wallet.

"Hustle" is one of my favorite shows, and yes, I spotted the scams right away, too. 

[Ottis]

I'm not sure Jimmy thought of the billboard as a scam vehicle at that point, either, I think it was just a big FU,JMM.  Once he was ordered to remove it he came up with the way to capitalize it to far more than its original publicity value via the scam.

 

 

That is what I like most about Jimmy. No matter what happens, his mind is spinning up another play. I don't think that fast or that deviously in real life, so his constant course-changing - always with a goal in sight - is fun to watch. I'm glad his antics can surprise me. Makes it more enjoyable.

[Hanahope]

I do like how we are seeing Jimmy try to be honest, after what was obviously a life of petty crime/cons.  He obviously got arrested one too many times and was starting to look at real time.  His brother, who probably went to a respected law school and founded his own high-priced firm, convinces him to stop and go straight.  Jimmy is probably at least closed in brains to Chuck, but cant get into a decent lawschool because of his criminal past.  That's why he went to American Samoa.  But it seems to me that somehow Chuck still got him a job at HHM, where Jimmy no doubt annoyed Hamlin (and others) and either through that annoyance, or Jimmy's propensity to 'cut corners' or due to the possible boring nature Jimmy found the 'big-law' firm to be, he's no longer with HHM.

 

But it got personal between Jimmy and Hamlin, also perhaps because of Chuck's illness and Jimmy's belief that Hamlin is taking advantage of that, which he probably is. And while Chuck may realize that, I bet Chuck also still likes seeing his name attached to a big law firm - plus its easier to 'come back' from a mental illness to your own lawfirm, rather than start new somewhere else. 

 

So Jimmy tries to go straight, but his nature comes through.  He gives off the vibe of a "criminal" lawyer/lawyer the guilty hire.  But he's obviously been trying to get real and decent clients, or at least better paying ones.  He tries to get business by working as a PD, but that's not doing anything.  He doesn't have the money for real advertisement.  He tries to be honest with the Kettlemans, but they won't go for it and you can see the wheels in his brain finally saying "ah fuck it" and takes the bribe.

 

I too thought the billboard, while definitely an FU to Hamlin, was also a way to legitimately drum up business, trying to attract a better class of client.  And if Hamlin could have just let it be, knowing that Jimmy really isn't his competition (most clients would figure it out) Jimmy may have gotten a few more clients and that would be it.  But of course, Hamlin can't let it go.

 

Jimmy tries honesty again, tries to get the papers to write the David/Goliath story, hoping that will give him a little bit of advertising again.  But they too refuse.  So, Jimmy's left with his only solution, falling back on his con work.

 

The question is, what is Chuck going do about it.

[Fisher King]

Quilt Fairy ~ Thanks for responding to my Cicero question!

[TVFan17]

Apparently I've watched too much "Hustle" (UK) and similar shows because I spotted both scams, and knew how the mechanics of the wallet/watch scam would work as soon as Saul suggested the alternate route and the mark saw the wallet. No fault of the show, really, although I never knew what to expect from Walter White's capers.

Overall, though, I want to like this show more than I currently do. I still feel like I'm waiting for it to get started, and I was surprised to see we're somehow already on episode four. Billboard war just isn't that exciting, and I'm beyond ready for Mike Ehrmantraut to get up on out of that tollbooth. Stakes didn't go nearly as high with the Kettlemans as I was expecting. Nacho isn't a compelling villain either. I guess the villain is "drudgery", and watching Saul go through it is tiring.

 

I know what you mean about the pacing of BCS.  There is a sense that it is still revving up its engines and is not ready to take off yet.   I'm still in it for the long haul, but I am waiting for that 'wow' moment that will really hook me.  I think the whole setting up of Jimmy's story/life is going to take some time, and the show may not really even pick up steam until Season 2 (which is already guaranteed).

 

I remember that part of the reason why I did not initially fall in love with BB in its first season was because of the pacing, and because I couldn't tell if it was supposed to be more of a black comedy or a drama series.  I think that BB got much darker and more dramatic over time.  There were still occasional amusing moments thrown in, but by the end of the series it no longer seemed like a black comedy to me.  It seemed like a drama series.

 

Right now, BCS has a lot of witty one-liners and dialogue, courtesy of Jimmy/Saul -- and we know that he is pretty much going to be the same amusing guy by the time he meets Walter White.  I am guessing that the 'darkness' is going to come from the other characters who enter Jimmy's orbit (I'm sure there is much more coming from Nacho), and that's when the pace will pick up.  Or, all of a sudden, a completely freakish scene will pop up out of nowhere, taking us all by surprise (such as the infamous scene in the "Negro y Azul" episode of BB).

 

I kind of feel that Tuco was thrown in at the beginning of BCS to not only hook in the BB diehards, but also to add in a bit of that darkness (dare I say, violence) that we will see more of (from assorted characters) in the future.  To me, it almost seemed as if Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould were saying to the viewers, "Okay, we know that Jimmy cracks a lot of jokes, and some episodes may seem more comedic, but this is not a comedy show.  Here's a bit of darkness for you, just to show you that we can and will 'go there' in the future."

Edited February 25, 2015 by Sherry67

[Perfect Xero]

Can you really get anywhere near $3000 when pawning a $5000 Rolex? I thought 50% of resale value was about all you could expect for jewelry. Jimmy's partner should have been dressed better to sell the idea that the watch was anything but the counterfeit it was.

I don't know what a gold Rolex retailed for back in 19whatever when that scene was set, but these days it could be around $30,000.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I thought it was an awesome touch that Jimmy quoted the foundation of the Holy Roman Catholic Church (On this rock...) by way of justifying/deciding how he would organize his professional life.

 

St. Peter was as flawed as the next guy, just like Jimmy.  VG made a profound statement as to the nature of humanity by using that phrase as he did.  

 

I'll leave the argument as to the corruption of the Church vis-a-vis the corruption of justice for others to debate on other forums (please don't do that here).  That there is absolutely a similarity in that anything and everything human is necessarily doomed to be corrupted is a point that is not made enough!  If I ever have the chance, I will ask VG what he was specifically attempting to say/get at.

 

I am so loving this show.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Lonesome Rhodes

[Quilt Fairy]

Can you really get anywhere near $3000 when pawning a $5000 Rolex? I thought 50% of resale value was about all you could expect for jewelry. Jimmy's partner should have been dressed better to sell the idea that the watch was anything but the counterfeit it was.

He was laying in a dark alley in the shadows next to a dumpster. Could you tell how well he was dressed? All I could tell was that he was wearing a suit.

 

I was really surprised at how conflicted Jimmy was about taking the bribe from the Kettlemans. It was not a casual thing. He rejected their offer several times and in the end we didn't see how long it took him to agree to it. 

[Irlandesa]

Pretty sure that's why Jimmy was drinking with him all night, he probably noticed a wad in the wallet, or got enough information from the guy to assume he at least had a couple hundred on him.

And was able to figure out the guy might not be the most honest guy.  Last week we had a discussion of whether or not Jimmy was a 'sociopath' because he conned people...and the context was innocent people.  I didn't think he was then but I do think it's an interesting character note that his mark in the flashback wasn't "innocent" so to speak.  The reason the con worked was because his companion was willing to steal off of a drunk guy in the alley. 

 

"Hustle" is one of my favorite shows, and yes, I spotted the scams right away, too. 

I spotted them too.  The one in the teaser was something I had been warned about when I traveled. It wasn't exactly that scam but similar.  I like that it had a basis in reality.

 

Jimmy tries honesty again, tries to get the papers to write the David/Goliath story, hoping that will give him a little bit of advertising again.  But they too refuse.  So, Jimmy's left with his only solution, falling back on his con work.

I don't think the con was the last resort. I  think the con was the plan.  He wasn't going to get tons of leads by buying a billboard that looked too much like the other law firm.  But being a hero?  He knew that'd work.  The reason he was so specific with the details is because he needed to lose the legal case.  He needed to lose the legal case so he could drum up a David v. Goliath human interest story.  In order to do that, he needed some media to follow the case which ended up being more difficult than he thought.  But the reason he needed the media was to capture his heroic efforts.  It was a long con to craft a trustworthy persona...as a hero.

[Hanahope]

Its certainly possible Jimmy planned a long con.  Once he took the bribe money and 'went down that road', it would very well be a logical conclusion that he would just continue on, use the money in a con, rather than try again to be legit (since legit obviously wasn't working well for him).  If that is the case, I have to love how he knew Hamlin would through a fit over the billboard and make a legal case out of it, playing right into Jimmy's hero con.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

He was laying in a dark alley in the shadows next to a dumpster. Could you tell how well he was dressed? All I could tell was that he was wearing a suit.

Good point. Jimmy didn't let the mark get the kind of look we did.

[jnymph]

I must be a little slow, because I didn't see either of the scams coming.  LOL

 

I thought Jimmy looked so cute in the opening wallet/Rolex scam, in a late 70s kind of way.

 

I'm developing a * crush on Bob Odenkirk.  Yep. There it is. Sigh.

 

*edited to delete "bit of a"

Edited February 26, 2015 by jnymph

[LoneHaranguer]

 

I thought Jimmy looked so cute in the opening wallet/Rolex scam, in a late 70s kind of way.

According to VG, that scene took place in 1992.

[editorgrrl]

I thought Jimmy looked so cute in the opening wallet/Rolex scam, in a late 70s kind of way.

 

According to VG, that scene took place in 1992.

 

In the "Better Call Saul" Insider podcast for episode 3, Vince Gilligan said the Chicago jailhouse flashback was set in 1992. I haven't yet listened to the podcast for this episode.

[jnymph]

According to VG, that scene took place in 1992.

 

Bwahaha!

 

He looked like he had that 70s vibe to me.   Guess Jimmy's rockin the retro look.  He's so cute. :p

[peggy06]

I was taken in by both cons, sigh. And then, even when I realized the billboard was a con, I didn't put two and two together that the entire thing - the new clothes and all - was part of the set-up. I really thought he was just trying to revamp his image, and copying Hamlin/putting the ad near his highway exit, was just a fillip to annoy Hamlin. But really, the only explanation is the long con as outlined by Irlandesa above. Why else would be blow that much money on an identical suit of clothes, and spend money on one billboard? That ad isn't going to turn things around for him in any significant way. And Jimmy despises Hamlin, but Jimmy is too smart to blow his cash on a gesture. Jimmy is pretty darned smart - and quick - period. I love that about the character; it makes him so much fun to watch. By contrast, I also enjoy Jimmy when he's at home, or in his office. Bob Odenkirk is really bringing out the human side of this character.

 

Speaking of which, Betsy Kettleman is a real piece of work. Some nerve she's got ragging on Jimmy. She knows well and good they stole that money - innocent people don't up sticks when they get a warning call. A warning call might confuse or scare someone innocent, but not make them go on the lam. I felt for Jimmy when he tried to sell them on his services, and she punched him in the gut with that comment about guilty clients. (Of course, she was right in that he was willing to take them on.)

 

The way they are using the past to make Jimmy's transformation believable is great. He isn't suddenly turning. Something similar was done with Walter White.

 

It makes me sad that there are so few posts about this show. I want it to succeed. I don't need Tuco or anybody from BB showing up, but maybe more of the potential audience do? If so, that, too, is sad. I think this show is plenty interesting in its own right. Funny as heck, too.

Edited February 26, 2015 by peggy06

[morgankobi]

Can anyone with more creativity than me at the moment make a Mike and also a Speculation thread? 

Maybe something about stickers? :)

 

Speaking of...I'm getting so antsy about Mike, to find out what his night-job is at the moment. Should he be working for Gus by now? If not, he's got to be into something. (He was doing some really dirty work during BB.) 

I need more Mike!

[TVFan17]

I was taken in by both cons, sigh. And then, even when I realized the billboard was a con, I didn't put two and two together that the entire thing - the new clothes and all - was part of the set-up. I really thought he was just trying to revamp his image, and copying Hamlin/putting the ad near his highway exit, was just a fillip to annoy Hamlin. But really, the only explanation is the long con as outlined by Irlandesa above. Why else would be blow that much money on an identical suit of clothes, and spend money on one billboard? That ad isn't going to turn things around for him in any significant way. And Jimmy despises Hamlin, but Jimmy is too smart to blow his cash on a gesture. Jimmy is pretty darned smart - and quick - period. I love that about the character; it makes him so much fun to watch. By contrast, I also enjoy Jimmy when he's at home, or in his office. Bob Odenkirk is really bringing out the human side of this character.

 

Speaking of which, Betsy Kettleman is a real piece of work. Some nerve she's got ragging on Jimmy. She knows well and good they stole that money - innocent people don't up sticks when they get a warning call. A warning call might confuse or scare someone innocent, but not make them go on the lam. I felt for Jimmy when he tried to sell them on his services, and she punched him in the gut with that comment about guilty clients. (Of course, she was right in that he was willing to take them on.)

 

The way they are using the past to make Jimmy's transformation believable is great. He isn't suddenly turning. Something similar was done with Walter White.

 

It makes me sad that there are so few posts about this show. I want it to succeed. I don't need Tuco or anybody from BB showing up, but maybe more of the potential audience do? If so, that, too, is sad. I think this show is plenty interesting in its own right. Funny as heck, too.

 

It's not the posts that are going to make or break the show.  It will stand on its own, or not stand on its own, if it holds viewers' attention, but it's still too early to leave BB references/characters out of conversations/articles/blogs/reviews.  

 

Also, I think that a lot of us have different points of interest.  For some of us, the show isn't all that interesting...yet.  I am going to stick with it until the bitter end, but it hasn't totally hooked me yet.  I'm being honest.   I don't need or want a lot of comedy -- the whole reason I was iffy about a show revolving around Saul is that I can only take so much of his shtick before it begins to bore me.  Mike is who I am mainly interested in -- and he is a BB character; there is no getting around that -- as well as the inevitable array of criminals that Saul comes in contact with. 

 

Can anyone with more creativity than me at the moment make a Mike and also a Speculation thread? 

Maybe something about stickers? :)

 

Speaking of...I'm getting so antsy about Mike, to find out what his night-job is at the moment. Should he be working for Gus by now? If not, he's got to be into something. (He was doing some really dirty work during BB.) 

I need more Mike!

 

I don't know when Mike began working for Gus.  I would imagine that he will be working for him before we hear any mentions of (or see?) Gus.  But yes, you're absolutely right -- Mike has got to be involved in all kinds of interesting stuff that is yet to unfold. 

 

If I had never seen BB and had no clue who Mike was, I would still think that there was more to his story.  Because I have seen BB and know who Mike is, I am that much more intrigued to learn about his life pre-BB, and to hopefully get a wee bit more insight into some of the things (events of the past) that he referred to in passing on BB.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Sherry67

[ghoulina]

I was taken in by both cons, sigh. And then, even when I realized the billboard was a con, I didn't put two and two together that the entire thing - the new clothes and all - was part of the set-up. I really thought he was just trying to revamp his image, and copying Hamlin/putting the ad near his highway exit, was just a fillip to annoy Hamlin. But really, the only explanation is the long con as outlined by Irlandesa above. Why else would be blow that much money on an identical suit of clothes, and spend money on one billboard? That ad isn't going to turn things around for him in any significant way. And Jimmy despises Hamlin, but Jimmy is too smart to blow his cash on a gesture.

 

I still want to know more about Jimmy's ties to HHM. Is his knowledge all second hand via Chuck and/or Kim? Or did he work there in some capacity at one time? It seems to me, in retrospect, that he was pretty sure the billboard stunt was just the kind of thing Hamlin would sue over. 

[ElsieH]

If I had never seen BB and had no clue who Mike was, I would still think that there was more to his story.  Because I have seen BB and know who Mike is, I am that much more intrigued to learn about his life pre-BB, and to hopefully get a wee bit more insight into some of the things (events of the past) that he referred to in passing on BB.

 

If you hadn't seen BB, would you even know his name is Mike? They haven't actually called him by name yet, have they? I do wonder if someone who really had no idea who he was would think he's interesting, or just be bored by the constant sticker wars going on.

[SailorGirl]

I still want to know more about Jimmy's ties to HHM. Is his knowledge all second hand via Chuck and/or Kim? Or did he work there in some capacity at one time? It seems to me, in retrospect, that he was pretty sure the billboard stunt was just the kind of thing Hamlin would sue over. 

 

I was wondering this too. My personal opinion is that he worked there when Chuck was a partner (Chuck giving him the job of course) and then when Chuck decided to do the electric slide, Jimmy was shut out/fired/laid off/some other slimy lawyer way of getting rid of him. My reason for thinking this is based on the episode when he went to confront Hamlin about Chuck's check. He knew the receptionist and she tried to stop him, he knew where he was going to the conference room, he spoke to some of the people on the stairs, etc. It seemed clear to me that he knew his way around the place pretty well. I don't think that level of familiarity would exist if it was just his adult sibling's workplace that he went to on occasion to see his brother. 

 

Edited February 26, 2015 by SailorGirl

[editorgrrl]

I still want to know more about Jimmy's ties to HHM. Is his knowledge all second hand via Chuck and/or Kim? Or did he work there in some capacity at one time? It seems to me, in retrospect, that he was pretty sure the billboard stunt was just the kind of thing Hamlin would sue over. 

 

In the pilot, Chuck was talking to Jimmy about theoretically leaving HHM:

My clients are out in the cold! My cases are scattered to the winds, and 126 people lose their jobs. What happens to your cronies in the mail room? The assistants, paralegals, the janitors? All of them, out on the street. Your friend Kim. A promising career over and done with.

 

I don't know when the firm was founded, nor do I know Chuck & Jimmy's ages (Michael McKean was born in 1947 and Bob Odenkirk in 1962). I just assumed that once upon a time Chuck had given Jimmy a job at HHM.

[TVFan17]

If you hadn't seen BB, would you even know his name is Mike? They haven't actually called him by name yet, have they? I do wonder if someone who really had no idea who he was would think he's interesting, or just be bored by the constant sticker wars going on.

 

You raise a good point -- his name hasn't been mentioned yet, has it?

 

In any case, if I hadn't seen BB I would think that there was more to Mike (whether I knew his name or not) because of the rather violent-but-controlled way he handled Jimmy/Saul, and the fact that he seemed to have a good handle on where the Kettlemans might be hiding.  I would probably assume that he was either a cop working undercover, or a criminal of some sort, or someone hired by Hamlin to bust Jimmy on something.  I would assume he was up to something secretive in some way. 

 

Knowing that he is Mike from BB, of course, makes him all the more intriguing.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Sherry67

[peggy06]

It's not the posts that are going to make or break the show.  It will stand on its own, or not stand on its own, if it holds viewers' attention, but it's still too early to leave BB references/characters out of conversations/articles/blogs/reviews.  

 

Also, I think that a lot of us have different points of interest.  For some of us, the show isn't all that interesting...yet.  I am going to stick with it until the bitter end, but it hasn't totally hooked me yet.  I'm being honest.   I don't need or want a lot of comedy -- the whole reason I was iffy about a show revolving around Saul is that I can only take so much of his shtick before it begins to bore me.  Mike is who I am mainly interested in -- and he is a BB character; there is no getting around that -- as well as the inevitable array of criminals that Saul comes in contact with. 

 

 

I don't know when Mike began working for Gus.  I would imagine that he will be working for him before we hear any mentions of (or see?) Gus.  But yes, you're absolutely right -- Mike has got to be involved in all kinds of interesting stuff that is yet to unfold. 

 

If I had never seen BB and had no clue who Mike was, I would still think that there was more to his story.  Because I have seen BB and know who Mike is, I am that much more intrigued to learn about his life pre-BB, and to hopefully get a wee bit more insight into some of the things (events of the past) that he referred to in passing on BB.

It's not the posts, but the posts are one barometer of how many people are watching the show, how well it's going over. I was seeing more posts on inferior shows like Scorpion and Extant in their first episodes. of course, those are broadcast network shows, and this show is on a cable station that isn't even included in the basic cable tier. I just want the show to get a decent chance. Plus, I enjoy the conversations, so the more posts, the better pleased I am.

 

I never especially cared for or about Mike on BB, so I'm content with the amount of his screen time up till now. If I had not watched the other show, I would find him mildly interesting because of his attitude toward Saul and the way he figured out where the Kettlemens might be. And of course, Jonathan Banks does that still-waters-run-deep-and-maybe-scary vibe very well. But I still think I'd be OK with waiting to see how the show develops him.

 

It's starting to seem almost detrimental in a way to have watched Breaking Bad, as it's seemingly making people anxious for things they would neither know nor care about if they hadn't. Since it's been about 18th months since Felina, so far I'm able to go with the flow of BCS on its own.  I hope to keep it that way.

[shapeshifter]

Can anyone with more creativity than me at the moment make a Mike and also a Speculation thread? 

Maybe something about stickers? :)...

I started a Mike thread here:

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/22784-mike-ehrmentraut-type-o-negative-personality/#entry870120

I'm not feeling too creative either, so I used the title from the old TWoP thread.

Not sure what you mean by "stickers"?

I will never have a crush on Jimmy or Bob Odenkirk, but I suspect they invented Hamlindigo blue to go with his baby blue eyes.

[queenanne]

I think I would care about Mike if he weren't "MIKE", because I find Jonathan Banks a magnetic actor with great timing - you can just tell when he's about to say something ironic, wry, or (to me) laugh-out-loud funny.  I anticipate it and I feel cheerier. 

 

That said, I don't think the show is laying too heavily on the comedy; though I can understand how others might, when I watch I continue to get a heaping helping of well-handled tonal pathos along with the humor.

 

I am likewise assuming that Jimmy had some kind of job at HHM when he was first thinking about wanting to be a lawyer ("go straight"), and Chuck's speech kind of implies it was the mailroom, heh.  Making hand deliveries as a mailroom clerk would also fit with how Jimmy knew about Hamlin's taste in suiting - though having made handwritten notes at the time seems a little unlikely, and I saw it speculated that maybe it was Kim; she's neither his secretary nor, it seems, his lover, so not sure how she'd know any better than another male would.

Edited February 27, 2015 by queenanne

[TVFan17]

It's not the posts, but the posts are one barometer of how many people are watching the show, how well it's going over. I was seeing more posts on inferior shows like Scorpion and Extant in their first episodes. of course, those are broadcast network shows, and this show is on a cable station that isn't even included in the basic cable tier. I just want the show to get a decent chance. Plus, I enjoy the conversations, so the more posts, the better pleased I am.

 

I never especially cared for or about Mike on BB, so I'm content with the amount of his screen time up till now. If I had not watched the other show, I would find him mildly interesting because of his attitude toward Saul and the way he figured out where the Kettlemens might be. And of course, Jonathan Banks does that still-waters-run-deep-and-maybe-scary vibe very well. But I still think I'd be OK with waiting to see how the show develops him.

 

It's starting to seem almost detrimental in a way to have watched Breaking Bad, as it's seemingly making people anxious for things they would neither know nor care about if they hadn't. Since it's been about 18th months since Felina, so far I'm able to go with the flow of BCS on its own.  I hope to keep it that way.

 

Well, as it has been stated in the assorted BCS episode threads -- eventually, as BCS detaches itself more and more from BB, the thoughts of and references to BB will fade off in to the mist.   That may not happen until Season 2.  Who knows?  If more BB character cameos and inside jokes pop up, the BB references will probably continue. 

 

It's not detrimental to the enjoyment of BCS if people have never seen BB -- in fact, the non-BB viewers are the only ones who can go in with a blank slate and not think of BB in any way -- but those of us who religiously followed BB (regardless of when it ended), and are interested in Mike (or Tuco) from his BB days, can't un-see BB or pretend we never saw it.   Right now, it's a natural thought process to wonder if Mike on BCS is going to eventually be involved with anything that he alluded to on BB.

 

So I don't know if it's detrimental to the actual BB viewers to have watched BB before viewing BCS, or if it enhances the viewing of BCS.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Sherry67