S03.E11: Midnight City

[SmallScreenDiva]

They're quite useful little things, I've found. Though I'm hoping I wont have to use them for long :P

 

You and me both, my friend :)

 

So because I have way too much time on my hands (not a lot of GIFs from this episode to reblog on Tumblr. And I've already reblogged every incarnation/edit of that dream kiss) ... I looked up if helicopters indeed had keys, or not. And apparently, it depends on the type. Most of them have "door" keys but not really for the ignition. Now I know. #thingsyoulearn

[Primetimer]

The Black Canary has a new face, and it's actually kind of plausible. We're as surprised as you are!

Read the story

[jaytee1812]

God Roy needed a slap at the start of this episode. "I've had training from Oliver and years on the streets." Such mansplaining bullshit.

Also who hired Vinnie Jones and why haven't they been fired.

[TrueMyth]

The only reason I can think of for the continued farce of lying to Quentin (especially in light of MG's Tumblr saying he was shocked, SHOCKED at the fan-rage at the the new level of faking his daughter's voice and posing in shadows) is that the writers actually believe Laurel's crazed assumption that the news of her death would trigger another attack.  It's ridiculous for so many reasons covered here.

 

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but the choice to combine faking-Canary and continuing to lie is crazy-pants.  I guess it's clear that Laurel hadn't realized that news would quickly get back to THE CAPTAIN OF POLICE that a vigilante meeting his daughter's description is active in the city.  Additionally, props to the local news for having the balls to catch footage of a shoot-out in the middle of very dangerous territory and broadcasting an execution on T.V... but what happens if clearly-not-ready Laurel gets iced or seriously injured as Canary?  Doesn't that have the same affect on Quentin's heart?  If she's only seriously injured in a can-not-cover-it way, she gets to tell her father, "I was just doing it because Sara..." what?  Can't come?  I mean, she has to tell him at some point, right?  Does he get a double punch of one dead daughter and one crippled?  The lie sucks so much.  ARUGH.

 

So even if the writers believe that Quentin really will crash on news of his daughter's death, it is still bizarre that they didn't understand the rage behind it.  But I guess, if they knew, they'd have more characters voicing reason.

 

The After Show gave props to the writers for not dragging out plot points like Felicity's withdrawal from supporting vigilantes.  I think that needed to go on for at least one more episode.  Maybe she could have reluctantly helped with tracking the alderman's pacemaker to show she'll come back.  But the Lie?  That is one thing that has been drawn out to the loss of all elasticity.  The show won't snap back from this.  She should have told him when he was in the hospital, all hooked up to those lovely life-monitoring machines and feet away from trained medical professionals. 

[KirkB]

Man. I've had a good nights sleep to think about this. It was bad enough when Dinah agreed to hide Sara's death from Quentin, but now that Team Arrow is actively doing it too I've had enough. I'm officially joining the negative side of Laurel opinions. I don't quite hate her, yet, but with this dressing up as Sara stunt (which I suspected but hoped they wouldn't do) they have crossed a line. Congratulations, you have managed to drag me out of apathy into active dislike and and subsequent Laurel action can only make it worse.

[tv echo]

The Starpulse review (posted in the Media thread) described the ridiculousness of Laurel continuing to lie to her father this way:

Now, Laurel's faking her sister's voice and talking to her dad as "Sara" from the shadows of a far away fire escape.  It's completely, cartoonishly unrealistic and it just makes Laurel look like a monster. Tell your dad the truth. Give up this ridiculous web of lies this instant. Also at this point, you're guaranteeing that Quentin drops dead as soon as Laurel tells him the entire, insane truth.

 

But I think the ComicBookResources review said it best:

More than that, she’s posing as Sara so their poor father doesn’t realize his daughter is dead. An iconic hero based on a lie just doesn’t sit well with me, and it makes Laurel look like a manipulative sociopath. It’s not worthy of the legacy, and it’s an unneeded soap operatic element that dilutes the gravitas of the arrival of a new Black Canary.

Edited January 29, 2015 by tv echo

[jaytee1812]

I think I'm Team Felicity and Laurel, I think I might actually ship them.

I love Barrowman, he's great with Willa. Thea/random DJ just took a turn for the interesting.

Diggle want the same slap as Roy, more mansplaining BS. The three of them taking out Vinnie Jones men was great.

I get Laurel not telling Quentin, people do stupid stuff through grief. Her dressing as Sara is stupid but I get it. She's scared, the thought of losing Quentin is unbearable. Like I say, it stupid but I get it.

I hate the villan, mostly because whoever cast Vinnie Jones in anything ever wants firing. He was awful as a second rate footballer and he's awful as a actor. If you want a cockney gangster there are actual actors who can do that.

[Sakura12]

There is never a good time to tell someone a loved one is dead. If you keep waiting for the perfect moment it will never come. So Laurel needs to tell Quentin now that Sara died. Let the poor man grieve (and hopefully give her the funeral she deserves). 

 

Laurel's keeping the secret because it will somehow hurt her to tell him Sara's dead. She made Sara's death about her. Which is not OOC of her. She's dragging everyone down with her with a stupid lie that doesn't benefit anyone. How does she think Quentin's going to feel when he does find out that Sara's been dead for months and no one thought he should know? 

 

She barely knew Sara, so she can't honor the memory of someone she knows nothing about. I  don't really see grieving so much as, how she can use this opportunity to become a super hero like everyone else. Which is exactly what's she's doing. She using the goodwill Sara built up and taking it for herself. I know eventually she'll add the color of the outfit to her name (which changes nothing, imo) but she'll still have Sara's glory to prop her up. 

[dtissagirl]

At this point, I'm afraid Quentin will keel over and die when Laurel tells him, thus proving her right all along.

[apinknightmare]

At this point, I'm afraid Quentin will keel over and die when Laurel tells him, thus proving her right all along.

 

Probably. I couldn't figure out if the heart thing was mentioned last night to remind us of the idiotic reason for not telling him or because it's still gonna be a thing and he'll die from it when she tells him. But you know, if he dies after she tells him the truth? I'd blame her stupid ass for going to see him and pretending to be her instead of just telling him in the first place. 

[strikera0]

That's what my earlier post was about. It seems the EP's know their audience better then we think. All they needed to do was have Laurel be nice to Felicity and wear a costume and kick ass and people will start to like her. Why it took them over 2.5 seasons to put that play into motion is another thing though. 

 

That seems about right. In the past, the IMDB boards and comment sections under online reviews used to be filled with Laurel hate, but I haven't seen much of that around anymore ever since Laurel has become Black Canary. Maybe a lot of people were impatient for her to put on the costume, after all.

[KirkB]

For a majority of the negative audience that's probably true. A lot of flak came from the because comics! crowd, who were the most publicly vocal. Her putting on the costume will satisfy a lot of them, even if it doesn't make much sense. Those of us who don't like Laurel for reasons beyond the suit though, aren't going to be satisfied with much but her removal from the show.

Edited January 29, 2015 by KirkB

[Ariah]

Probably. I couldn't figure out if the heart thing was mentioned last night to remind us of the idiotic reason for not telling him or because it's still gonna be a thing and he'll die from it when she tells him. But you know, if he dies after she tells him the truth? I'd blame her stupid ass for going to see him and pretending to be her instead of just telling him in the first place. 

Yes, the heart condition was mentioned:

Felicity: How's your heart?

Quentin: Still beating.

(Me: Damn!)

 

It's terrible how this grown-up, competent man is being treated like a helpless child.

The way things are going, Quentin will probably kick the bucket soon, but not because Laurel told him the truth (after all, if Laurel is the cause of Quentin's death, she will be even more hated). I'm guessing he'll catch a stray bullet and then Laurel will be all "But Dad, you can't die! I haven't told you about Sara yet!"

 

---

Side note on the dream scene: Oliver Queen the playboy of Starling City is an insanely chaste kisser in his dreams. It's kind of endearing, really.

---

 

@ Tatsu's penicilin - Oliver himself remarked that this penicilin is awfully strong, so I'm betting it has an extra juice.

[apinknightmare]

@ Tatsu's penicilin - Oliver himself remarked that this penicilin is awfully strong, so I'm betting it has an extra juice.

 

And you know he's GOT to be a penicillin connoisseur. 

[Password]

About that kiss, I think they left it chaste so that the blood spurting from his mouth wouldn't be quite so gross. These two haven't had ANY tongue but I'm glad we didn't get it there.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Limbo

[looptab]

I asked this in one of my previous comments, but it probably went overlooked, so I'll ask again :)

Was there a spoiler about a "happy Olicity kiss"? Or it was expected due to the dream sequence? I saw some people asking about it, so it's been bugging my little crazy brain that i didn't know ahah

- sorry if I'm a pain, I just can't help it sometimes :P

[apinknightmare]

I asked this in one of my previous comments, but it probably went overlooked, so I'll ask again :)

Was there a spoiler about a "happy Olicity kiss"? Or it was expected due to the dream sequence? I saw some people asking about it, so it's been bugging my little crazy brain that i didn't know ahah

- sorry if I'm a pain, I just can't help it sometimes :P

 

I think the "happy Olicity kiss" referred to the version of the hallway scene from The Calm that was released in the Canadian trailer for season 3. Felicity was smiling and she went up on her tiptoes to kiss him while grabbing onto his forearms - it was a completely different angle, and they did look happy. 

[looptab]

I think the "happy Olicity kiss" referred to the version of the hallway scene from The Calm that was released in the Canadian trailer for season 3. Felicity was smiling and she went up on her tiptoes to kiss him while grabbing onto his forearms - it was a completely different angle, and they did look happy. 

Oh, Okay. Thanks! I thought it referred to this ep and I had missed it somehow lol

[SmallScreenDiva]

Oh, Okay. Thanks! I thought it referred to this ep and I had missed it somehow lol

 

I've seen some people refer to the dream kiss last night as a "happy" Olicity kiss and, in a way, it's true. You see Felicity's surprised and happy "Are you sure?" Oliver smiles and leans in and she very quickly meets him and when they pull back they're both kind of smiling :) BTW, those smiles right there would have been the biggest clues that whole damn thing was a dream. Didn't even need the sword :P

[poetgirl925]

I have to agree with the reviews that say Laurel looks like a manipulative sociopath/monster for orchestrating this continued Sara farce with her father. It started off being horrible and has gone so far down a twisted path that I don't even know what to say. I hate it. And it really isn't worthy of a legacy like Black Canary. Little did I know that when they were all saying Laurel would become her sister that they meant that literally. WTF. I keep going into each episode trying to give her a fair shake and they keep doing this kind of thing. 

 

Before that, I was kind of having fun with the episode in the sense that I had popped some popcorn and was ready to rag on Buckle Canary's first outing. Story-wise I suppose it was somewhat plausible - if you're Laurel that is. She's narcissistic enough to see all that stuff going down and make it about her putting on a costume without even considering how much of a liability she's going to be or that her father would hear about it. She looked genuinely shocked that Quentin heard about the return of Canary. How did this woman finish law school since she can never see a foot in front of her own face? She is the most reactionary character I think I've ever seen on TV. You'd think a lawyer would be more logical than this. 

 

Still, watching her stumble around and swing the bo-staff like my niece at her t-ball games will never not be funny. I expect she'll be an expert by season's end though, so I'll enjoy the comedy of errors while it lasts. However, that is where the funny stopped because everyone was acting out of character. I was kind of expecting it though because I noticed Wendy Mericle was one of the writers - IIRC she's half of the crack team that brought us episodes like Blind Spot and Time of Death. Look, I know writing is hard, but they must have a story board or character profiles or something to help them stay on track with these characters. First, why the hell was Diggle deferring to Laurel? How did it make any sense for him to stay behind and man the computers while she pretended to be her sister? That was a major facepalm moment - so now Diggle is the sidekick to sidekicks? Someone get David Ramsey a show that appreciates him. He was just straight up being used to prop Laurel. And then the propping continued with Felicity, whose sole purpose this season appears to be validating new heroes and propping new characters. How about David and Emily get a show together so they can actually get their own stories. The worst thing is that the team is now complicit in Laurel's lie and I find this wildly out of character for them. Diggle is a father himself now, and he's okay with this? Felicity was ready to sacrifice her friendship with Oliver to tell him the truth about Thea last season, and she's also okay with this? WTF.

 

Laurel had a couple of good scenes - she was kind of funny in the interrogation scene until she abused her power yet again, saying she could charge him with whatever she wanted. I mean, she can charge him with something, but not whatever she wants. I wish they'd just drop the law stuff at this point because she's the worst. The Laurel and Felicity scene also wasn't terrible, but it's kind of too little too late. It's like that weird moment with Diggle last episode - a nice moment but not earned based on previous interactions. Roy was kind of funny with Malcolm - for some reason that scene didn't work as well as when Felicity stood up to Malcolm. I'm glad Thea called Malcolm on part of his BS, but that's also getting a little ridiculous. They all think Oliver is dead - how long do they think they'll be able to keep that from her? Then again, they think they'll be able to fool Quentin by having Laurel dress up as her dead sister and talk to him through a voice modulator, even though it makes no sense she'd be in town but would refuse to see her father. At this point, I'm waiting for Nyssa to show up and spill the beans to Quentin after seeing reports of the Canary. 

 

So DJ Douchecanoe is actually DJ Assassin? Well, I didn't see that coming. He's mildly more interesting now, but I still don't like that actor. The Ray/Felicity stuff is getting kind of weird. Oliver just died - are they really going there so quickly? I'm just going to keep ignoring this subtext. I don't know that I'm really shipping anyone on this show anymore (reserving judgment to see how they handle Oliver's return) but the Ray thing smells of plot contrivances and lacks proper development. Still, the helicopter thing was funny. I might warm to them if they did more of that. It reminded me of Oliver's season 1 excuses to Felicity. Ray is an idiot if he hasn't figured out her connection to vigilantes yet, so we'll see how that plays out. 

 

Last, this show has gotten so weird that when Maseo cut his neck, I thought he was about to peel off a face prosthesis lol. I don't know who I thought he was going to be - Tommy or Sara or Nyssa or someone like that I guess - but my mind went there for a few seconds. But he was just Maseo lol. Oliver's resurrection is unbelievable - so much so that they might as well have had Dumbledore come in and magic him back from the dead in a very special crossover event lol. Still love Katana though. As for the flashbacks, I have no idea what's going on there and I have trouble paying attention to them at this point. Something something Omega something Amanda Waller something something Alpha? No clue. Don't care. I've completely avoided spoilers in recent months, so I'm flying blind on future episodes at this point. The last thing I knew was coming was Laurel as Canary in episode 10. I hope some of the ridiculousness dies down. 

[themadman]

Gosh, why couldn't they have just killed off Laurel and kept Sara? So painful!

[looptab]

I've seen some people refer to the dream kiss last night as a "happy" Olicity kiss and, in a way, it's true. You see Felicity's surprised and happy "Are you sure?" Oliver smiles and leans in and she very quickly meets him and when they pull back they're both kind of smiling :) BTW, those smiles right there would have been the biggest clues that whole damn thing was a dream. Didn't even need the sword :P

Right, when people smile on this show it's a sign that a catastrophe is near :) 

[tv echo]

Since the reviews say it better than I ever could, I'm posting another bit of criticism from the Bleeding Cool review written by Rich Epstein (posted in the Media thread):

Think about it, Diggle is a former army officer, special ops, with years and years of training. Roy Harper has been fighting criminals for about a year and a half. Laurel for roughly two days. And yet, when they go out to face Brick and try to rescue the aldermen, it’s Laurel and Roy who go, with Diggle back at the Arrowcave. Because Laurel insists on going. This makes no sense. And worse, Laurel makes the characters around her dumber. Roy and Diggle go along with her. For no reason other than because they are all being stupid. Her stubborness combined with her stupidity brings down the characters around her. Here’s an idea, agree to train her.Tell her to stay back and watch them and they will start training her. But in the meantime, let the most experienced person you have go on the mission. If Diggle was there, he could have held off Brick long enough to get the aldermen free. That alderman is dead directly because of Laurel. Because she insisted on doing something she wasn’t capable of doing. Not because there was nobody else who could do it, there was.

 

No, that alderman is dead because Laurel is as stubborn as a three year old. And everyone else went along with it, which was probably the dumbest thing since Oliver let Merlyn go.

[BkWurm1]

Gosh, why couldn't they have just killed off Laurel and kept Sara? So painful!

I just read a quote by Joss Whedon.

 

"If something isn't working, if you have a story that you've built and it's blocked and you can't figure it out, take your favorite scene, or your very best idea or set piece and cut it.  It's brutal, but sometimes inevitable." 

 

This show has been blocked by Laurel since the get go.  The character they created to be Dinah Laurel Lance can never IMO be reconciled with who the Black Canary is supposed to be and represent.  Think of all the problems solved if and horrible story lines avoided if they had followed the story rather than forced the story to become their fan boy realization.   No amount of stumbling or tripping or taking punches can erase the idea that even the idea of going out there shouldn't have crossed Laurel's mind.  She is light years away from being ready but the show runners demand it so hit those switches and remake all her known abilities.  Now she can jump out a window and catch a ladder hanging from a helicopter.  Honestly, getting back up after taking a single punch is just as unbelievable.  We had 2 plus years to learn she wouldn't and zero examples of that changing...until poof, it has.

[steelyis]

I just read a quote by Joss Whedon.

 

"If something isn't working, if you have a story that you've built and it's blocked and you can't figure it out, take your favorite scene, or your very best idea or set piece and cut it.  It's brutal, but sometimes inevitable." 

 

This show has been blocked by Laurel since the get go.  The character they created to be Dinah Laurel Lance can never IMO be reconciled with who the Black Canary is supposed to be and represent.  Think of all the problems solved if and horrible story lines avoided if they had followed the story rather than forced the story to become their fan boy realization.   No amount of stumbling or tripping or taking punches can erase the idea that even the idea of going out there shouldn't have crossed Laurel's mind.  She is light years away from being ready but the show runners demand it so hit those switches and remake all her known abilities.  Now she can jump out a window and catch a ladder hanging from a helicopter.  Honestly, getting back up after taking a single punch is just as unbelievable.  We had 2 plus years to learn she wouldn't and zero examples of that changing...until poof, it has.

 

 

If watching Smallville taught me anything it taught me if TPTB are determined to force their square favs into round holes--usually with anvils--that's pretty much that.

[xaxat]

Is it wrong that I laughed every time Laurel got punched?

[AES13]

What bothers me a lot about this show, and this episode in particular, is how much (but not all!) of the badness could be avoided with a few tweaks. 

 

Obviously removing Laurel isn't a small tweak, but do they have to write her as an ADA who essentially threatens defendants with death unless they do what she wants?  They want her have fire and passion, and be the crusading lawyer out to right injustice, but she comes across as a self-righteous, smug cow with an "ends-justify-the-means" approach.  Have her threaten him legally; that's her job and would have been enough to get what she wanted from him. (I like the idea above that she suggest to him that she'll let him go but put it out that he was cooperating with the police.  Same result, and not despicable)

 

Was I supposed to feel for her as she deceives her father and pretends to be her dead sister?  Because that scene made me sick for Quentin's sake and disgusted with Laurel.  Her masquerade as "Canary" was terrible but it would have been a better scene if Quentin had yelled out "And eat a sandwich, would you?  You look too thin!" as she was leaving. It would have still been repulsive but at least we wouldn't think that Quentin has to be an idiot not to notice something. 

 

The Raylicity scenes could have been fine if there hadn't been the pregnant pause of "does Felicity like him too?" at the ends.  Let Ray indicate he likes her, but have Felicity absent-mindedly smile at him and move on.  Trying to suggest a week is sufficient time to start looking for a replacement for a dead loved one is fairly bizarre but more importantly, completely out of character for Felicity.

 

The rescue of the aldermen didn't have to be a total clusterfuck with Diggle, of all people, opting to run the comms.  All 3 of them could have gone and not having someone on communications, Laurel's inexperience, and Brick's savagery would have led to the same result but at least you wouldn't think Diggle a fool for having stayed in the foundry.

 

I didn't like the hug between Laurel and Dig last week because their relationship didn't warrant it, but that was better than Laurel's parting shot to Diggle about having lost a sibling too.  Had she made it into a question, a prompt for empathy, "you know what it's like to lose a brother so you understand why I'm doing this, right?" it would have played so much better.  The writers seem to want us to sympathize with Laurel, but the way they write her as lashing out at others out of pain does not endear her to anyone; people have to like her first for that kind of behaviour to be seen sympathetically.

 

What I find most infuriating is that the show has so much potential to be really good (the acting, the stunts, the cinematography, pretty much everything else really) but it just can't get there because the writers keep holding it back with the plot holes, the out of character moments to push an agenda, the dropping of some plot threads, the tired old tropes that get trotted out on the regular, etc.  I want to love the show, have it last at least 7 seasons, and buy the entire series on Blu-Ray to re-watch later; I also want to be able to enjoy my Olicity fanfiction addiction, but if the show continues to degrade like this, my hopefulness will turn to apathy and, no matter how personable Stephen Amell is, I won't be interested in watching any more. 

 

Sorry for the diatribe!  To end on a positive note, Roy is growing on me and his new haircut makes him look a lot less of a meathead.  Felicity looked lovely.  And, showing my age, I loved Oliver's hair and beard in the flashback!  Are we sure these aren't flashbacks to the 80's?  ;)

[Mars477]

God Roy needed a slap at the start of this episode. "I've had training from Oliver and years on the streets." Such mansplaining bullshit.

Also who hired Vinnie Jones and why haven't they been fired.

That's not mansplaining.  Mainsplaining would be if he were talking to Sara, who actually knew what the fuck she was doing, and not some incompetent tryhard.

[catrox14]

 It was Roy explaining what his experience was and why that made him qualified to be out there vs Laurel an her lack of experience and training. Felicity could have said the exact same thing to Laurel about Roy if Roy wasn't even there. Not everything said by a man to a woman is mansplaining.

[FishyJoe]

Brick gets shot and shrugs it off. Brick get hit in the nuts, he's down for the count. What a tough guy...

 

I glad the city 'leaders' know what's important. WIth 'leaders' like that, do the bad guys even have to do anything? I'm beginning to think Malcolm was right in destroying the city, they would probably be better off.

[pigs-in-space]

I glad the city 'leaders' know what's important. WIth 'leaders' like that, do the bad guys even have to do anything? I'm beginning to think Malcolm was right in destroying the city, they would probably be better off.

 

Seriously.  It's unbelievably stupid that they wouldn't call in the National Guard, especially since they suggested it right in the episode.

[benteen]

Seriously.  It's unbelievably stupid that they wouldn't call in the National Guard, especially since they suggested it right in the episode.

 

It's par for the course on this show.  Remember last scene at least two dangerous murderers escaped prison (the Dollmaker and Count Vertigo) and the SCPD deliberately hid this information from the public.  They all deserve the city they're in.

Edited January 30, 2015 by benteen

[Cthulhudrew]

Is it just me, or is that the best Oliver's Flashback Wig has looked in the entire run of the show so far?

Seriously.  It's unbelievably stupid that they wouldn't call in the National Guard, especially since they suggested it right in the episode.

Hopefully this means they're setting Quentin up to become the next mayor.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Cthulhudrew

[apinknightmare]

Is it just me, or is that the best Oliver's Flashback Wig has looked in the entire run of the show so far?

 

 

He finally located the showers in Hong Kong.

[slayer2]

That was entertaining. I'm happy to have watched that. Good stuff!

[Delphi]

Hopefully this means they're setting Quentin up to become the next mayor.

Hopefully not, potential mayors in this town tend to get run through with swords.

[verbalme]

What I find most infuriating is that the show has so much potential to be really good (the acting, the stunts, the cinematography, pretty much everything else really) but it just can't get there because the writers keep holding it back with the plot holes, the out of character moments to push an agenda, the dropping of some plot threads, the tired old tropes that get trotted out on the regular, etc.  I want to love the show, have it last at least 7 seasons, and buy the entire series on Blu-Ray to re-watch later; I also want to be able to enjoy my Olicity fanfiction addiction, but if the show continues to degrade like this, my hopefulness will turn to apathy and, no matter how personable Stephen Amell is, I won't be interested in watching any more. 

 

This. I watched Arrow because of Oliver, his journey, the action, the people he cares about and the lengths he would go to protect them. His relationships with Diggle, Felicity, Roy, Moira, Thea were what kept me watching.

 

If episodes 311-313 are supposed to be more on LL stepping up as Black Canary, I'm all for it, if in the next 2 episodes, they show her getting her ass kicked all the time (no more jumping out of windows please!), stepping back and training under Oliver when he's back (he acknowledges that he needs help and there's no stopping Laurel), and confessing to her father. Maybe then, her journey gets more believable, or rather, easier to swallow. 

 

But she needs to get her ass kicked regularly. Sinceriously. The girl can't even swing a staff properly. 

[marketdoctor]

The thing that kept me from being more upset about the voice changer is that I was trying to remember where I'd seen it before.  It's not quite a trope, but the earliest I'd seen one was in Batman (the Adam West version), so it's within DC TV canon.  There's another possibility, though, as I was reminded by "Diamonds are Forever"--which takes place in large part in Las Vegas.  This would also explain the voice changer, the genius IQ, her almost innate understanding that someone's only dead when you see a lifeless corpse, and her willingness to do what's right regardless of the letter of the law.

 

What if Felicity's grandfather is Blofeld?  

 

 

 

 

 

[tv echo]

Remember when someone asked Marc Guggenheim on Tumblr (before "Midnight City" aired) if Laurel was going to use a voice distorter?  MG's response was "Oh, you're gonna love it".  WRONG.

Edited January 30, 2015 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

Remember when someone asked Marc Guggenheim on Tumblr (before "Midnight City" aired) if Laurel was going to use a voice distorter?  MG's response was "Oh, you're gonna love it".  WRONG.

I really wish I could find these people who legit went "OMG HOW COOL! Laurel is pretending to be Sara to fool her dad, haha, isn't this the awesomest thing she ever did? What a super great trick!" that Guggenheim seems to believe exist *en masse*.

[Ariah]

Remember when someone asked Marc Guggenheim on Tumblr (before "Midnight City" aired) if Laurel was going to use a voice distorter?  MG's response was "Oh, you're gonna love it".  WRONG.

 

But the sad thing is - he really thought we are going to love it.

Proving yet again that he has no concept of human psychology whatsoever.

[jaytee1812]

It was Roy explaining what his experience was and why that made him qualified to be out there vs Laurel an her lack of experience and training. Felicity could have said the exact same thing to Laurel about Roy if Roy wasn't even there. Not everything said by a man to a woman is mansplaining.

No but a little boy explaining to a grown woman why he can tell her what to with her life is mansplaining. He takes the same attitude with Thea when he goes to Merlin.

At least Laurel got Felicity away from just doing what the boy tell her and gave her at least a little agency.

I just watched the aftershow. I hope those women are well paid.

[looptab]

I think he thought we would love hearing Caity Lotz's voice. That it was a cruel trick to play on anyone never crossed his mind.

Damn, I expected more from the man who co-wrote Streets of Fire :/

[foreverevolving]

No but a little boy explaining to a grown woman why he can tell her what to with her life is mansplaining. He takes the same attitude with Thea when he goes to Merlin.

At least Laurel got Felicity away from just doing what the boy tell her and gave her at least a little agency.

I just watched the aftershow. I hope those women are well paid.

Roy is hardy a boy, a young man sure, but hardly a boy.

I had no issue with Roy laying some truth bombs on Lienary. She was being stupid, and more often than not it is our youngests member of the community that tend to give away the truth unfiltered. Also: Roy grew up in the freakin Glades, he had a far more harsh life growing up than she did, he may be young chronologically but he is a far more mature person than she is.

If anyone was telling someone what to do this episode it was Malcolm to Thea... I don't remember a post by you complaining about that?

[catrox14]

No but a little boy explaining to a grown woman why he can tell her what to with her life is mansplaining. He takes the same attitude with Thea when he goes to Merlin.

At least Laurel got Felicity away from just doing what the boy tell her and gave her at least a little agency.

I just watched the aftershow. I hope those women are well paid.

 

Totally disagree with that interpretation of the scene. 

 

He might be 19 but he's legally an adult and he is a young man, not a little boy. Thea is the same age. Felicity is only 5 years older than Roy and she could have still said the same thing about Roy to Laurel because it's all about Roy's life experience regardless of his age. Roy being direct  with Laurel as Roy was is not mansplaining.

[Ariah]

No but a little boy explaining to a grown woman why he can tell her what to with her life is mansplaining. He takes the same attitude with Thea when he goes to Merlin.

At least Laurel got Felicity away from just doing what the boy tell her and gave her at least a little agency.

 

 

I'm all for equality, but I don't believe that 'mansplaining' took place. It was just a more experienced - albeit younger - team member trying to pour some wisdom into a less experienced one. Regardless of their gender. What the less experienced person did endangered themselves (and later, endangered a third person and got that person actually killed). The more experienced person is in the right to correct the newbie and even place the newbie on the backburner if the said newbie's actions bring little merit but a lot of trouble to the team.

 

If your co-worker screws up and causes loss to the company, do you let her be, because you're a man and she's a woman and your complains will be directed at her gender? No. Your complains will be directed at her competence, or lack of it.

 

Yes, Laurel's a woman. She's also an inexperienced fighter in a war where you can't survive on sheer luck and good faith. Roy was right that time and I'm disappointed he didn't stick to his guns.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Ariah

[Tangerine]

No but a little boy explaining to a grown woman why he can tell her what to with her life is mansplaining. He takes the same attitude with Thea when he goes to Merlin.

 

He was giving her very valid reasons as to why what she was doing was dangerous and was giving, in my opinion, a very logical explanation as to why he's more qualified to be doing the same thing. Friends are supposed to call each other out when they do reckless things, regardless of gender or age. Mansplaining is whenever Ray tries to invalidate Felicity's anger and telling her that it's not HIS behaviour she's upset with, but it's really for some other reason that has nothing to do with the weird creepy things he's doing. Laurel nor the viewers have to agree with what Roy was saying, but I wouldn't automatically discount his behaviour as inappropriate or sexist just because of the genders involved.

[blixie]

I did not at all take Roy as mansplaining to Laurel, it's about tone, and his tone was not condescension, and he conceded he was not an authority on the whole vigilante deal. He seemed genuinely concerned and interested in her safety and her reasons for doing this, because YEAH he does understand the impulse to want to help/fight, and in the *end* he actually welcomed and supported and worked with her. Colton as Roy was the MVP of that episode, and I'm still spun by how much chemistry he and Katie had together. 

 

I also loved him with Malcolm and Diggle, insisting that Thea be told. 

 

Still as great as Roy was there was too much other stupid and dumb to ignore.

[Carrie Ann]

The dynamic between Roy and Laurel didn't bother me either, for the same reasons you've all laid out here. But it's a good moment to point out once again that this is why it was stupid to do the BC story this way. It puts Oliver (and now others) WAY above and beyond her in skill and experience. No matter what happens to her, I will always see her as 5-7 years behind Oliver and Sara; 10 years behind Diggle; 2 years behind Roy, etc etc etc. It's a terrible way to write a character who is supposed to be a force of nature. That was Sara. That's Nyssa. That's not Laurel and it never will be. Not on this show.

 

Anyway, I took a day to chill about this dumb episode, and I did remember that I liked some things about it. And one of those things was Roy. I thought CH did a great job with this material. He's making Roy this very steady guy, maturing in all the right ways. I really like him these days. The other thing I liked was everything to do with Oliver, Maseo, and Tatsu. I liked both the flashback scenes and the cabin scenes. I find Maseo and Tatsu leagues more interesting than I ever found Slade and Shado (sorry, just not a huge fan).

Edited January 30, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[marcee]

So faking Canary is better for her dad than quite realistically potentially being killed as fake Canary and having her dad find out that both of his daughters are dead?

Fuck you, Laurel.