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Pet Peeves: Aka Things That Make You Go "Gah!"


Message added by Mod-Tigerkatze,

Your Pet Peeves are your Pet Peeves and you're welcome to express them here. However, that does not mean that you can use this topic to go after your fellow posters; being annoyed by something they say or do is not a Pet Peeve.

If there's something you need clarification on, please remember: it's always best to address a fellow poster directly; don't talk about what they said, talk to them. Politely, of course! Everyone is entitled to their opinion and should be treated with respect. (If need be, check out the how to have healthy debates guidelines for more).

While we're happy to grant the leniency that was requested about allowing discussions to go beyond Pet Peeves, please keep in mind that this is still the Pet Peeves topic. Non-pet peeves discussions should be kept brief, be related to a pet peeve and if a fellow poster suggests the discussion may be taken to Chit Chat or otherwise tries to course-correct the topic, we ask that you don't dismiss them. They may have a point.

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1 hour ago, TattleTeeny said:

It's funny--most of the people I know who refer to other people as snowflakes are also the people who scream "unfair" at just about everything (well, not everything, exactly...), are afraid of a whole lot of hypothetical scenarios, and/or subscribe to outlandish conspiracy theories.

I would be very happy to never hear a conspiracy theory again.  My best friend is a big believer in most conspiracy theories.  I actually left a bbq really early because she kept going on and on about the government covering up for aliens.

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44 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I had you in mind when I posted that.  I remember that you weren't happy when Decades rescheduled the series.  You mentioned it in this thread not too long ago.  For some reason Dark Shadows got stuck in my head.  I don't know why,  I do have  a horrible memory, so for me to remember that is more than a bit odd.

Decades website doesn't list it, but my cable guide starts out with season 2 episode 25 airing at noon EST on 10/31 and ends with the last episode of the binge being on 11/2 starting at 6:30am EST season 2 episode 112.  

Lol. It's funny the stuff that stays with us isn't it? I shall alert the fans in the Dark Shadows forum.

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Recently, I was told I looked "too dressed up" for a social media video shoot I was participating in.  WTF does that mean?  I've been taught to "look the part," and for a shoot like that, it meant "office appropriate" (to me).  I wasn't in a suit or anything - just a comfortable dress (nothing formal - it was a bamboo dress/tunic and I wasn't even wearing shoes).  I thought I looked really casual and dressed down.  I'm 41 and the other person is in her mid-30s.  Age thing?  Or is it just upbringing?  I went to a high school with a strict uniform code and was more or less raised with dress codes at certain places we went to (the place where I play tennis didn't even allow denim in the clubhouse until the 21st century.  Even now, nothing ripped/destroyed (or whatever the term is these days)).  

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30 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Recently, I was told I looked "too dressed up" for a social media video shoot I was participating in.  WTF does that mean?  I've been taught to "look the part," and for a shoot like that, it meant "office appropriate" (to me).  I wasn't in a suit or anything - just a comfortable dress (nothing formal - it was a bamboo dress/tunic and I wasn't even wearing shoes).  I thought I looked really casual and dressed down.  I'm 41 and the other person is in her mid-30s.  Age thing?  Or is it just upbringing?  I went to a high school with a strict uniform code and was more or less raised with dress codes at certain places we went to (the place where I play tennis didn't even allow denim in the clubhouse until the 21st century.  Even now, nothing ripped/destroyed (or whatever the term is these days)).  

My guess would be that she doesn't want to bother and doesn't want you making her look bad.  Wouldn't worry about it if I were you.

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My pet peeve:  Christmas movies in October.  

And not that I particularly care that much, but are no channels going to play Halloween movies because they are already onto Christmas.  I have a hard and fast rule.  No Christmas movies before Thanksgiving. Except for one in July.  I don't know why, but for some reason I find that acceptable.

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7 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

That wasn't nearly as much of an issue before social media arrived on the scene, and before people got so hard wired into their belief system to such a point where they won't consider something is possible that they don't already believe.  I am not talking about subjects that we're are not allowed to talk about here.  I am talking about in general terms that the lack of an open mind in terms of anything being possible. 

We have come to a point in this society where a significant part of the population will only seek out and validate opinions that match their own, and will not under any circumstance consider possibilities of things they already believe in as being open to question. 

I have said it before and I will say it again.  I am about as open minded as it gets and read all viewpoints on as many different subjects as possible.  That is how people grow as human beings.  They don't grow if they don't venture outside of their own belief system.   They don't grow if they don't venture outside their own comfort zone. 

Labels are the first sign of a closed mind.  It is a way of marginalizing people with whom they disagree.

People have always been "the way they are now". It's just that the internet gives people a platform to be more vocal/visible. Not everyone could stand and yell in the town square or found a church or publish a newspaper back in the days of yore, but now there are 2.7 billion active users on Facebook, a billion on Instagram, and 330 million on Twitter. That's an unfathomable amount of opinions when we as a people were used to just hearing the ones in our community for thousands of years. This widespread exposure to billions of "other" voices has only been over the last 15 years or so.

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49 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

People have always been "the way they are now". It's just that the internet gives people a platform to be more vocal/visible. Not everyone could stand and yell in the town square or found a church or publish a newspaper back in the days of yore, but now there are 2.7 billion active users on Facebook, a billion on Instagram, and 330 million on Twitter. That's an unfathomable amount of opinions when we as a people were used to just hearing the ones in our community for thousands of years. This widespread exposure to billions of "other" voices has only been over the last 15 years or so.

I think you're right, that people have always been that way, just not so visible, but I think people didn't use to talk about politics and other divisive subjects even with their actual friends and neighbors so much. I think it might have been possible not to know the opinions of your friends and neighbors. As I was a kid, though, I don't know what the adults did talk about on the summer evenings when they gathered in a neighborhood driveway. We were all too busy playing games.

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I went on a package tour in the southwest a bunch of years ago.  It was a small group - myself plus a few older women.  At first all was well then a few days in one of the women decided to talk about what she heard on the radio the night before.  When she said what station it was I knew which way she leaned politically.  She was aware of the industry I worked in since I mentioned it a couple of days earlier so she asked me about my opinion of a topic related to my industry that had been a subject of political debate.  I gave a brief answer to which she said “that won’t happen”.  Although I disagreed with her I let it go.  Someone else may not have.  Anyway this tour operator did not say anything about the “no politics” rule but I wish they had.  The next group I went on a trip with (a different tour operator) gave us all a list of rules to follow which include “no politics”.  Otherwise it’s a terrible way to spend a vacation that you’ve spent lots of money on.  

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I usually just try to keep my opinion to myself.  Unless someone purposely goads me.  I have one issue that I'm particularly passionate about.  I won't bring it up.  I probably won't even comment if others are discussing it, because there's no doubt that I'm in the minority.  But, if you get in my face about it, well, I'm only human.

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Current peeve:  when did Netflix get so needy?  I’ve just noticed this in the past few weeks. Every time I pause something, it asks me, are you enjoying this? Thumbs up? Thumbs down? Wha’d’ya think?  Huh? Huh?  

Well, how about you look at your database of everything I’ve watched ever? Maybe if I’m watching the fifth season of something that I started a month ago, I might like it. If I watched half of one episode and never came back, then, well...

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My peeve today is with Amazon. I have been ordering as much stuff...foods included as I can to spend as little time in the grocery store with people not wearing a mask. My last several orders for some reason they are putting white labels on the items. Sometimes they have a "best by" date but  more often nothing at all. My peeve is it covered up the ingredient list. I read a review where someone said the label covered the BBD and replaced it with one further in the future.  This smacks of some kind of fraud...getting rid of old products...yet in this time with all the purchases from Amazon how can they still have stock that old around?

Sorry posted this in the wrong thread before, but the peeve still stands.

Edited by Gramto6
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I may have posted this 1 a long time ago, but I think it’s worth mentioning again because I’m seeing it in posts again & because it’s probably been a long while since I brought it up.

Right now, at least, my pet peeve is people who don’t know the difference between “a part” & “apart” & when to use each.

As for “a part” (2 words), that means something/someone is part of something/something else.

As for “apart” (1 word), that means something/someone is separate from something/someone else.

You don’t know how many times I’ve seen people (here & elsewhere) use at least 1 of  those words in the opposite way (a part—used as if it means “separate from” instead of “part of”); . It makes me crazy & I have to hold myself back from correcting them if it’s on a message board somewhere.

 

 

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9 hours ago, Gramto6 said:

My peeve today is with Amazon. I have been ordering as much stuff...foods included as I can to spend as little time in the grocery store with people not wearing a mask. My last several orders for some reason they are putting white labels on the items. Sometimes they have a "best by" date but  more often nothing at all. My peeve is it covered up the ingredient list. I read a review where someone said the label covered the BBD and replaced it with one further in the future.  This smacks of some kind of fraud...getting rid of old products...yet in this time with all the purchases from Amazon how can they still have stock that old around?

Sorry posted this in the wrong thread before, but the peeve still stands.

I get products from time to time with the stickers on them, and I believe they are inventory labeling from the vendor in question.  Can't really say whether or not they all came from Amazon themselves or a 3rd party supplier (or both).  I've had them on things that wouldn't have an expiration date.

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@icemiser69 I am so with you on the amount of sodium that’s put into foods. Sodium always feels like it’s burning my tongue, and it makes me retain water like crazy. I’m told it’s used to enhance the natural flavors of foods. All I taste is the salt. Then if you buy a product with reduced or no sodium it costs more. When you get a days worth in one meal (based on a low sodium diet) it’s too much. 

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Need to vent — it’s leaf blowing season here in the northeast and the noise is really annoying! I doubt people ( some of my neighbors) would be so anal-retentive about leaves if they actually had to rake them!

Can’t manufacturers make quieter leaf blowers?

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6 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Peeves:

So much focus being placed on cholesterol, calories, and fat, and so little attention being placed on sodium levels.   At this point in my life, sodium is my number one concern due to its affect on my blood pressure.   I am a vegetarian and I look at the sodium levels in most of the plant-based meats, and for me, they are so off the charts.  Far too much sodium.

When it comes to frozen foods, is it really necessary to have really high levels of salt in them?

That and sugar. Maybe I'm just a cranky old broad but everything tastes too sweet these days. Especially breads. 

Quote

I was able to finally find some Flex Paste at the local hardware store.

They just want you to buy it from their website.

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1 hour ago, sadiegirl said:

Can you let us know if it works? I want to buy some,  but I'm not completely sold...

We got some too. My DH used it yesterday on his sister's roof. She is going to let us know how it goes. He said it was easy to use but takes a long time to dry.

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4 hours ago, Adiba said:

Need to vent — it’s leaf blowing season here in the northeast and the noise is really annoying! I doubt people ( some of my neighbors) would be so anal-retentive about leaves if they actually had to rake them!

I have a neighbor that uses his leaf blower as a snow blower! It's a big honkin' thing too - he looks like a ghostbuster or something. And he'll go out when there's barely any snow on the ground. And it might be 11:00 at night when he does this. I just roll my eyes.

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45 minutes ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

I have a neighbor that uses his leaf blower as a snow blower! It's a big honkin' thing too - he looks like a ghostbuster or something. And he'll go out when there's barely any snow on the ground. And it might be 11:00 at night when he does this. I just roll my eyes.

Before my hip got messed up, I used to walk a mile a day. I'd be strolling along, enjoying the birds and the flowers and the trees and BAM! Fucking leaf blowers. Ruined my walk. 

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5 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

That and sugar. Maybe I'm just a cranky old broad but everything tastes too sweet these days. Especially breads. 

I only buy whole wheat bread that is made from whole wheat flour, yeast, water, and salt.  No sugar or other sweetener - I'm trying to eat bread, not cake - and no other unnecessary ingredients.  Three local bakeries made good ones, but one by one they either went out of business altogether or sharply reduced their inventory (eliminating "my" bread as part of that; it's clearly not a best-seller, going by what's on the shelves), so I'm down to one.  I'll have to start making my own bread if they bite the dust.

7 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

Sodium always feels like it’s burning my tongue, and it makes me retain water like crazy. I’m told it’s used to enhance the natural flavors of foods.

It does, as does pepper, but such seasoning should be used sparingly and may not be necessary at all depending on the ingredients.  Yet the trend in prepared food - restaurant or pre-packaged, especially frozen, food - is way too much salt.  Not everyone's blood pressure is negatively affected by it, but I think it's unfortunate across the board, because even if there's no health risk it may affect your overall sense of taste (effectively making you crave more and more salt).

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4 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I only buy whole wheat bread that is made from whole wheat flour, yeast, water, and salt.  No sugar or other sweetener - I'm trying to eat bread, not cake - and no other unnecessary ingredients.  Three local bakeries made good ones, but one by one they either went out of business altogether or sharply reduced their inventory (eliminating "my" bread as part of that; it's clearly not a best-seller, going by what's on the shelves), so I'm down to one.  I'll have to start making my own bread if they bite the dust.

It does, as does pepper, but such seasoning should be used sparingly and may not be necessary at all depending on the ingredients.  Yet the trend in prepared food - restaurant or pre-packaged, especially frozen, food - is way too much salt.  Not everyone's blood pressure is negatively affected by it, but I think it's unfortunate across the board, because even if there's no health risk it may affect your overall sense of taste (effectively making you crave more and more salt).

I don't use much, if any salt in cooking. There are so many herbs, spices and other way of flavoring food. And I tend to cook with real butter (is there any other kind?) and I figure there's probably enough salt in that. 

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5 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I don't use much, if any salt in cooking. There are so many herbs, spices and other way of flavoring food. And I tend to cook with real butter (is there any other kind?) and I figure there's probably enough salt in that. 

I use unsalted butter (or some kind of oil, depending on the recipe), but I'm the same in that I don't add much salt to my cooking (and if I'm making a dish with, say, cheese, so there's already lots of salt, I don't add any) - with the garlic, herbs, and/or spices in most of what I cook, there's little to no extra salt needed to properly enhance the flavor.  I put salt and pepper shakers on the table when hosting others, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone use them (and I get compliments and recipe requests), so others don't find my food bland, either.

People particularly rave about soups I make, and I think that's because of the homemade stock - the base gets its flavor from chicken and vegetables, not stock, so they're just tasting that "pure" flavor and whatever is added to the soup.

I get it - salt and fat taste good.  But a little go a long way, and they're not what I want to rely on for flavor.

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Huge pet peeve: Leaf blowers and snow blowers. They're not really doing anything. And when I walk past someone blowing, I get blown with leaves, dust or snow! They should be outlawed. 

Use a bloody rake and a shovel. It's good exercise, it's quiet and doesn't stink like diesel.

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I don't like noise coming from leaf blowers, I prefer to rake.

We have an electric leaf blower but we only use it on the sidewalk in front of our house because I have a double row of ornamental trees and bushes on either side of it and they drop spent flowers on the sidewalk. It's actually very quiet.

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14 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

especially when the plows push the snow into driveways.

I HATE that! It's so hard to clear! The snow is packed hard with lots of ice chunks. And if you don't get it immediately, it gets worse. I'm glad to be working from home now so I'll be able to tackle it when it's only back-breaking and not whole-body breaking!

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39 minutes ago, supposebly said:

and doesn't stink like diesel.

Gas-powered leaf blowers are banned in L.A., but a) they're still used and b) even when the ban is honored, switching to electric only alleviates one (pollution) or two (noise, if applicable to any appreciable degree) problems.  But most people don't want to maintain their own yards or pay their gardener extra for the time to rake, so here we are - the ban winds up not doing much other than being an additional way to harass the brown folks taking care of these yards.

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9 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

I get products from time to time with the stickers on them, and I believe they are inventory labeling from the vendor in question.  Can't really say whether or not they all came from Amazon themselves or a 3rd party supplier (or both).  I've had them on things that wouldn't have an expiration date.

Yes, many have inventory labelling, the ones I was talking about were completely blank and covered up the ingredient lists. There was no reason for them to be there. Someone else on a product review I read said some of the labels covered the BBD and added a new on further out. That would peeve me too!

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22 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

Current peeve:  when did Netflix get so needy?  I’ve just noticed this in the past few weeks. Every time I pause something, it asks me, are you enjoying this? Thumbs up? Thumbs down? Wha’d’ya think?  Huh? Huh?  

Well, how about you look at your database of everything I’ve watched ever? Maybe if I’m watching the fifth season of something that I started a month ago, I might like it. If I watched half of one episode and never came back, then, well...

The thumbs up, thumbs down every time you pause is new and somehow annoying. And why recommend things "Since you watched..." when you can also see that I watched 10 minutes and never went back.

 

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1 hour ago, Gramto6 said:

Yes, many have inventory labelling, the ones I was talking about were completely blank and covered up the ingredient lists. There was no reason for them to be there. Someone else on a product review I read said some of the labels covered the BBD and added a new on further out. That would peeve me too!

Oooh, yeah that's rotten.  

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My pet peeve (and this may be the second time I've mentioned it) is the obnoxious car commercials aimed at the young and thoughtless, like Toyota's commercials shown over and over ad nausem Friday and Saturday during Skate America.  It shows 20 somethings, male and female, racing each other in SUV's in a downtown area and on a highway while Hey Ya is playing (and now the song is stuck in my brain).  There have been other car commercials recently (I'm thinking BMW but not positive) that also show speeding, not watching the road, having a great ol' time. All I can think is pretty soon we'll be dealing with these airheads having fun with their new cars as we try to avoid them hitting us.  Why are these car ads, showing irresponsible drivers, allowed on TV?

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38 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

My pet peeve (and this may be the second time I've mentioned it) is the obnoxious car commercials aimed at the young and thoughtless, like Toyota's commercials shown over and over ad nausem Friday and Saturday during Skate America.  It shows 20 somethings, male and female, racing each other in SUV's in a downtown area and on a highway while Hey Ya is playing (and now the song is stuck in my brain).  There have been other car commercials recently (I'm thinking BMW but not positive) that also show speeding, not watching the road, having a great ol' time. All I can think is pretty soon we'll be dealing with these airheads having fun with their new cars as we try to avoid them hitting us.  Why are these car ads, showing irresponsible drivers, allowed on TV?

When covid started we had a bunch of problems with drag racing because the streets were so empty.

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1 minute ago, ParadoxLost said:

When covid started we had a bunch of problems with drag racing because the streets were so empty.

We did too.  A few weeks ago I had an 8:00 AM dental appt and was driving over there around 7:30 AM.  All of a sudden, WHOOSH!  A small red car came out of nowhere and flew past me (I was on a state highway but in the city outskirts).  He had to have been going 100 mph.  I wish the police would concentrate more on catching these jerks.  Where do these people get the idea that the roads are theirs to do as they please?

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17 hours ago, supposebly said:

Huge pet peeve: Leaf blowers and snow blowers. They're not really doing anything

I live in Upstate NY, my city won the title in 2019-20 for the most snow for the season. On average it can be 5-8 inches, and sometimes that snow is heavy. Add to that I have a long driveway, 4 car lengths, I couldn't get out of my driveway in a timely manner and without a back ache if I didn't have a snowblower.  

Edited by BexKeps
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35 minutes ago, BexKeps said:

I live in Upstate NY, my city won the title in 2019-20 for the most snow for the season. On average it can be 5-8 inches, and sometimes that snow is heavy. Add to that I have a long driveway, 4 car lengths, I couldn't get out of my driveway in a timely manner and without a back ache if I didn't have a snowblower.  

I think comparing snow blowers and leaf blowers is apples and oranges. Snowblowers can save lives. Leaf blowers are pure vanity.

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I'm not sure in this case if my pet peeve is myself or other people.  I never know what to do when I go into a place of business and nobody notices me.  I feel like trying to get their attention comes off as obnoxious.  But, how long am I supposed to just stand there.  Today it was only about a minute, so that's not too bad.  But, this summer I went into a store/ice cream place to get a chocolate shake (I think we can agree that's an absolute necessity) and I stood there for 5 minutes and then just decided to leave.  But in that case I didn't even see any employees.  I feel like I could have wiped the place out had I been so inclined.

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My pet peeve is people who think it's okay to say the rudest, most obnoxious things possible but then need their smelling salts when someone utters a curse word. I know a lady like that -- she says the most vicious, cruel things possible but is massively offended at words like "shit or "crap." 

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1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I'm not sure in this case if my pet peeve is myself or other people.  I never know what to do when I go into a place of business and nobody notices me.  I feel like trying to get their attention comes off as obnoxious.  But, how long am I supposed to just stand there.  Today it was only about a minute, so that's not too bad.  But, this summer I went into a store/ice cream place to get a chocolate shake (I think we can agree that's an absolute necessity) and I stood there for 5 minutes and then just decided to leave.  But in that case I didn't even see any employees.  I feel like I could have wiped the place out had I been so inclined.

Once upon a time, when I was a college student, a friend got engaged and registered at Big Department Store (that worked on commission).  Several of us pooled our money to buy a gift from the registry, but when we went to the store, looking like college students, the sales clerks completely ignored us.  I mean, they looked at us, sneered, and looked away.  That made me so angry that I waved our money around and started shouting, "Hey, we have money!  Is it not good enough for you?  We'll be happy to spend it somewhere else!  Where's the manager?" and so on, in that vein.  Of course my friends were ready to crawl under the nearest rock, but damn if we didn't get waited on.  But as retribution, I told the clerk we weren't going to buy the expensive thing we'd wanted to (and could afford), because we didn't want to give their rude asses that much in commission.  The manager was pissed, too.  Sadly, I couldn't convince my friend to change the registry to another store.

All that to say, your peeve is other people.

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6 minutes ago, Browncoat said:

Once upon a time, when I was a college student, a friend got engaged and registered at Big Department Store (that worked on commission).  Several of us pooled our money to buy a gift from the registry, but when we went to the store, looking like college students, the sales clerks completely ignored us.  I mean, they looked at us, sneered, and looked away.  That made me so angry that I waved our money around and started shouting, "Hey, we have money!  Is it not good enough for you?  We'll be happy to spend it somewhere else!  Where's the manager?" and so on, in that vein.  Of course my friends were ready to crawl under the nearest rock, but damn if we didn't get waited on.  But as retribution, I told the clerk we weren't going to buy the expensive thing we'd wanted to (and could afford), because we didn't want to give their rude asses that much in commission.  The manager was pissed, too.  Sadly, I couldn't convince my friend to change the registry to another store.

All that to say, your peeve is other people.

That was just out and out rude.  I wouldn't have spent a dime at that store if I were you.  You should have gone to another store, bought the expensive item taken it into that store and then say you have to go shopping now.  Totally Pretty Woman it.

In my case, it wasn't specific to me.  It's just that nobody was around.  I don't get that.  I've worked in food places before.  And the same would hold true for stores or anywhere you get off the street traffic. You keep an eye on the door.It's just common sense.

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3 minutes ago, Katy M said:

That was just out and out rude.  I wouldn't have spent a dime at that store if I were you.  You should have gone to another store, bought the expensive item taken it into that store and then say you have to go shopping now.  Totally Pretty Woman it.

The manager did enough sucking up that we were okay with buying some token from the registry.  IIRC, the expensive item might have been store-specific?  It's been, oh my god, it's been more than thirty years! since this incident!  Now I have to go lie down.

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21 hours ago, supposebly said:

Huge pet peeve: Leaf blowers and snow blowers. They're not really doing anything. And when I walk past someone blowing, I get blown with leaves, dust or snow! They should be outlawed. 

Use a bloody rake and a shovel. It's good exercise, it's quiet and doesn't stink like diesel.

I'll assume this is satire.

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7 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

I'll assume this is satire.

I don't know, but I'll completely agree that you shouldn't blow stuff on a passerby. There's not much worse than walking home in the winter and someone throwing a ton of snow on you.  Although, I actually had that happen with a shovel.  Wasn't any more pleasant that way.

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1 minute ago, Katy M said:

I don't know, but I'll completely agree that you shouldn't blow stuff on a passerby. There's not much worse than walking home in the winter and someone throwing a ton of snow on you.  Although, I actually had that happen with a shovel.  Wasn't any more pleasant that way.

Banning useful equipment won't eliminate the asshole quotient.  People will find other ways to be jerks.  

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1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

My pet peeve is people who think it's okay to say the rudest, most obnoxious things possible but then need their smelling salts when someone utters a curse word. I know a lady like that -- she says the most vicious, cruel things possible but is massively offended at words like "shit or "crap." 

Ooh this is a pet peeve of mine too. I don't like a potty mouth or aggressive cursing, but what's a little cursing going to do to an adult? And you're right there are people who are extremely mean and aggressive without cursing and get all high and mighty about what they consider kindness and manners. 

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