S09.E17: A Reveal to Remember

[3girlsforus]

I can't tell if I believe Anna and Josh re having more kids. I don't think Anna is lying when she says she enjoys the ones she has; she is really engaged with them and I can see here worrying about losing that connection. But then it's the constant pregnancy tests, the talk about twins etc. that makes me wonder -- is that just what she's saying? Though I guess being programmed your whole life that your job is to bear kids -- that programming doesn't go away in a few years.

 

It's hard to tell for sure, but I think what we are seeing with Anna is 'I think you doth protest too much'. She has been raised to believe her entire purpose is to be a wife and mother. Moreover, she's been raised to believe that Godly women desire this with all their being. Now she likes her family unit and doesn't want tons of kids. She might be ok with one more but not a dozen+ and she's confused. So she says how much she wants more to convince herself she does because she thinks she is supposed to.

[mimionthebeach]

I think Anna caught a case of baby fever when Priscilla was pregnant. I say that as someone whose kids both have cousins about a year younger than they are. It was suggested that I shouldn't have any more children because my sister was so prone to this ailment. ;-)

[cereality]

Josh and Anna have been married for what 5-6 years now? Can't they sit down like a normal couple and talk about what each of them realistically wants re more kids and then see if they can come to a compromise. Maybe for Josh it's 3 and for Anna it's 8. But then can't they act like all other couples and say -- let's go for one more and see how we feel after that? By making all of these "ooh I can't wait to have more" statements with Josh looking fearful, it seems like they've never talked to each other about it and just have a tacit understanding that they will keep 'trying" whether they are both on board or not. Seems like a bad dynamic 5-6 years into a marriage -- this is the person you're supposed to trust with everything. But I feel like if one or the other were trying to prevent pregnancy here, they'd have to be sneaky about it. In this case it would be Josh -- so maybe he should be sneaking a look at Anna's cycle/chart and conveniently arrange work trips on those days or conveniently have to work late or have a headache. He couldn't go so far as to use a condom as she'd know, but he could always -- withdraw -- not that that's fool proof but it is a way for a man who seems like he just does not want another kid.

[superguard9]

Poor TFDW and his unrequited crush on Josh. It sucks to be put in the friend zone. ;)

 

Josh is done having kids, and isn't trying to hide it. Of course he always says "As many as God will give us" but as far as I can remember he has also always said if that's just 2 or 3 it would be okay with him, meaning he really only wants a few kids but has to toe the party line. For Anna, I can't tell if this is for the cameras, she has a case of baby fever after being around Priscilla, or she really does want a dozen kids. Earlier episodes the more babies talk sounded like a private joke with her husband, but now I'm not so sure.

[JerseyGirl]

If Priscilla and David have camped all the time, why did they need to buy so much stuff just to include Josh and Anna, who already have a fully stocked RV - see the first comment I made here. 

 

I found it odd too that for an overnight camping trip they bought a handful of those tiki torches at the store.  Then, when they were packing the RV I saw a whole bunch of used, but still good, tiki torches stored in the garage.  I was thinking, Why did they buy new ones just for this trip??

[Turquoise]

Why must these women fawn all over their 'MEN' and their fish?  Why does every conversation have to end with kisses? Maybe a few times they could vary it with a hug or two instead? 

Both of these things drive me crazy! I have always had an independent streak, but I can fish too, thank you very much. And I would not have needed the boat captain to take my fish off the hook...I learned how to do that when I was about 8.

I am also all about affection-for couples of any configuration-but why oh why must every statement be punctuated with a coo of "ohhhhh..." and a kiss? Is there some rule book I am not aware of?

[ghoulina]

I just thought it was hilarious how Josh caught a fish that was too small to keep, but Anna didn't miss a beat. She immediately said something along the lines of, "Wow, you had to hold it with TWO hands". Girl, please. I'm all for building my husband up, but these women take it entirely too far. 

[Fuzzysox]

Does anyone remember the name of the Ace Hardware store they went to?

[graefin]

I found it odd too that for an overnight camping trip they bought a handful of those tiki torches at the store.  Then, when they were packing the RV I saw a whole bunch of used, but still good, tiki torches stored in the garage.  I was thinking, Why did they buy new ones just for this trip??

Because TLC was paying.

[crouton]

Does anyone remember the name of the Ace Hardware store they went to?

I don't remember the name, but I think it was in Hinsdale, IL if that helps.

[Literata]

 

Josh has no poker face; he soooo does not want more children right now.

Agreed. And that actually makes him seem less of a giant douche.

 

Since Smuggar and Anna have been in DC, I'm sure they've been exposed to couples their own age who have no desire to create gargantuan nuclear families, so they're seeing there's an alternative. I also think Smuggar, despite his many shortcomings, isn't a stupid guy, and he's well aware how expensive kids are to raise; perhaps he doesn't want his kids to have to eat Aldi pork-and-beans and call it dinner. 

 

I agree they have to toe the line, but I wonder what they're actually doing to prevent conception; dollars to donuts they're not using birth control, but I'd be willing to bet they're relying on some form of natural family planning. Or maybe, unlike the senior Duggars, they find more to do than screw all the damned time.

 

I'd love to see their family stay the size it is. I don't always love Anna, but she bugs me less than the rest of them do, and she seems to be a genuinely good mom who knows her kids and delights in the things they say and do.

[EtheltoTillie]

We don't have Aldi here (NYC).  I know it's a supermarket chain, but what's the deal with the pork and beans reference?  Is it something equivalent to Spam?

[Literata]

No, just that it's cheap, and in the Duggars' older shows, they used to buy a ton of it.  Then, IIRC, they stopped eating pork altogether, right?

[EtheltoTillie]

Thanks, I found out we have a couple of Aldi's here now, but they're not in my neighborhood.

[BitterApple]

Since Smuggar and Anna have been in DC, I'm sure they've been exposed to couples their own age who have no desire to create gargantuan nuclear families, so they're seeing there's an alternative. I also think Smuggar, despite his many shortcomings, isn't a stupid guy, and he's well aware how expensive kids are to raise; perhaps he doesn't want his kids to have to eat Aldi pork-and-beans and call it dinner. 

 

Absolutely. I think now that Josh has had a taste of the DC yuppie lifestyle there is no way in hell he's going back to the pre-TLC days. He's got a nice big house, cushy white collar job, disposable income and organic produce. He reaps the rewards of being part of the dog and pony show, but is far enough away not to have to deal with Boob and Michelle on a daily basis. In other words, life is good. I can see why he doesn't want to rock the boat.

[Darknight]

I think Anna doesn't know what it's like to have 19 siblings living in a cramped house. She's 5 of 8 mush easier than being the oldest of 19

[Missy Vixen]

Josh and Anna have been married for what 5-6 years now? Can't they sit down like a normal couple and talk about what each of them realistically wants re more kids and then see if they can come to a compromise.

Here's a thought -- do they talk at all? One would think they would get on the same page for the cameras and make their decision privately, but it doesn't seem they spend enough time together talking to even arrange that.

[Jellybeans]

Why does every conversation have to end with kisses? Maybe a few times they could vary it with a hug or two instead?

Well that... I would not be surprised if they do vary it up with hugs, n' such but the editing monkeys at TLC think we're obsessed with Duggar smooches.

For the record, I have never been dipped while kissing. Had to throw that in there.

[Jellybeans]

Back the prayer closet for the both of us, you made me have impure thoughts

That's ok, if people did not have impure thoughts they would have no reason to pray.

[alegtostandon]

Anna is obsessed with taking pregnancy tests. Good Lord, why doesn't she buy them by the gross ton? When they were in Japan she went to a store looking for one. It might be in her best interest to stock up. I don't get her. A few weeks ago she said she was content with the three children she already has. Now she's all, "Oh, my sweet Josh, do fill me with your precious seed so that I can be a mother again!"

 

She buys the pregnancy tests used, than saves the difference...maybe why they keep showing negative

 

For the record, I have never been dipped while kissing. Had to throw that in there.

 

Me either! I had wondered if that is a fundy thing.  I do not know anyone who does that, but anyone associated w/the Duggar's seem to do this.

Edited November 21, 2014 by alegtostandon

[allonsyalice]

I'm about to watch this episode, so I'm not going to have anything useful to add. I just kind of wanted to add an "ugh." and a "Jessa will probably be having a child by the time this wedding is aired on TV." 

[goldensglitter]

 

Does anyone remember the name of the Ace Hardware store they went to?

I think it was Fullers, something like that.  Definitely Hinsdale, Il.  Hoitie toitie town.

[GEML]

I was baffled by how $174 was the equivalent of three dresses bought new. Um, not the clothes they were buying. Those were just Carters-type clothes. Dresses are in the $10-20 range, and if you shop with discounts or at an outlet, it's nowhere near $60 a dress!

And I still think Josh and Anna talking about a baby now is almost an inside joke. They don't want to get pregnant and their body language now in comparison to earlier clearly demonstrates that. But I think saying that aloud to anyone other than in quiet words alone with each other is about as taboo as it gets.

[Fuzzysox]

I think it was Fullers, something like that.  Definitely Hinsdale, Il.  Hoitie toitie town.

Yes your right. I think Bill Ranic grew up in Hinsdale, IL and they did buy a house there but he flipped it. The mini-mansions were incredible there.

 

Like I have stated here before, Oakbrook, IL was full of old money and nice houses. I went to college in Elmhurst, IL and lots of kids that I went to school with that were from Oakbrook were trust fund kids. Big time $$$$$ around there. I believe that David's voice has evolved since moving here and he does not show how fabulous he is like when he first got married. 

 

From the looks of the Waller house they deff live in an older community. That house looked like it didn't have a basement and is probably owned by Gothard and his organization. 

[Darknight]

She buys the pregnancy tests used, than saves the difference...maybe why they keep showing negative

Me either! I had wondered if that is a fundy thing. I do not know anyone who does that, but anyone associated w/the Duggar's seem to do this.

Ewww

[Temperance]

Josh is done having kids, and isn't trying to hide it. Of course he always says "As many as God will give us" but as far as I can remember he has also always said if that's just 2 or 3 it would be okay with him, meaning he really only wants a few kids but has to toe the party line. For Anna, I can't tell if this is for the cameras, she has a case of baby fever after being around Priscilla, or she really does want a dozen kids. Earlier episodes the more babies talk sounded like a private joke with her husband, but now I'm not so sure.

 

I think Anna doesn't know what it's like to have 19 siblings living in a cramped house. She's 5 of 8 mush easier than being the oldest of 19

Okay I don't think Anna wants nineteen, she's talking about four. There's a big difference. I think Josh doesn't want more kids now or maybe even ever, but it's hard to believe two people in their mid-twenties could not birth control and only have three kids for the rest of their lives.  I think Josh doesn't particularly need more kids, but is resigned to the inevitability of having more. 

It's not just being around Priscilla. It's also that most of the women around her including the models of her mother and her mother-in-law have bigger families. Also around the time this episode was filmed Jill was on the cover of People. 

Josh and Anna have been married a little over six years. If you think they're nuts to want a fourth child, wait til Jill or Jessa is announcing their fourth child or more!

Edited November 22, 2014 by Temperance

[mimionthebeach]

Back the prayer closet for the both of us, you made me have impure thoughts

Just make sure there's room between you for the Holy Spirit.

Edited November 22, 2014 by mimionthebeach

[KitKat]

I find it creepy the men in this cult never have sex with a woman that is not pregnant.  Most normal men enjoy having the woman they marry have the child and may or may not lose the baby fat. and they plan the next child and enjoy sexy....these men must just love pregnant women.  

[Sew Sumi]

Does anyone remember the name of the Ace Hardware store they went to?

I JUST saw the scene on rewatch (Jana should be coming up soon). It was Fuller Hardware.

[BitterApple]

From the looks of the Waller house they deff live in an older community. That house looked like it didn't have a basement and is probably owned by Gothard and his organization. 

I noticed that even though it was an older neighborhood, all the homes were beautifully maintained and had really nice yards. I think you're right that the house is owned by Gothard. I can't imagine David is earning enough money to rent/buy in an upscale community. I also found it interesting that a fellow Kool-Aid drinker lived right across the street.

[floridamom]

Anna stated that FIVE children was A GOOD START and to go from there...she grew up with 10 people in a trailer...so yes, she knows what it's like to be crammed lke sardines in a can. She doesn't have much common sense in the kid department as I bet she knows really nothing about the logistics and finances involved in having more than 5 kids...Josh looks a little scared to me and he should be as the responsibility is squarely and totally on HIS shoulders. Anna happily opens up another can of mushroom soup and prepares dinner blissfully ignorant of the effects of her fantasy desires.

In the beginning of 19K, Michelle clearly stated that they understand this lifestyle of "as many kids as.." isn't for everyone, but that is was for them and they don't impose this belief of any one else....something's changed here since then...they do, indeed, IMO, impose this lifestyle on every one else, including pressuring their own kids to do the same...a contradiction yet again...they need to explain ALOT of things that we have been seeing and hearing for quite some time now.

[glow]

I remember one of the early specials when a daughter said, while sitting on the bunk bed, that she'd like kids, just not as much. Nowadays, every bride from their family eschews birth control, declaring that "she'll leave it up to God" or that she'll have as many as Michelle, or more.

Edited November 22, 2014 by glow

[GEML]

There is sometimes a belief, such as in Amish communities, that if you were raised in this world and reject it, you are damned. But that same standard doesn't necessarily apply to someone who truly doesn't know. That is how they justify the double standard and hold the threat over their children. I honestly don't know if the Duggars do this or not, but would anyone be surprised if they did?

[Abstract]

I remember one of the early specials when a daughter said, while sitting on the bunk bed, that she'd like kids, just not as much. Nowadays, every bride from their family eschews birth control, declaring that "she'll leave it up to God" or that she'll have as many as Michelle, or more.

Well, they probably don't get the approval to court or marry until they can spout the party line with sincerity. Maybe that's why there are no courtships for JD or Jana.

[Jellybeans]

That is how they justify the double standard and hold the threat over their children. I honestly don't know if the Duggars do this or not, but would anyone be surprised if they did?

I think back to the things my parents "taught" me. I certainly felt fear when I broke the rules. Figured out the world kept turning when I rejected their views. It's not hard... even my kids did it to me LOL.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Jellybeans

[NausetGirl]

Well, they probably don't get the approval to court or marry until they can spout the party line with sincerity. Maybe that's why there are no courtships for JD or Jana.

 

And that may be exactly what Jana and John-David want.  If so, good for them!

Edited November 24, 2014 by NausetGirl

[toodles]

I downloaded this episode from on demand.  OMG, it was boring.  I rarely watch this show, but I love the forums so go figure.  I had to see Priscilla and the TFDW for myself.  A very odd group of people, the whole lot of them.  I can't understand the kids and just found the whole thing annoying.  I gave up about halfway through and turned it to House Hunters.  This is my life folks.  One big party in a box.

[DoctorWhovian]

Oh...and my reaction every time i see one of those info boxes show up my reaction is always " no shit!"

 

Can you imagine being the person who has to figure these out? I can see them sitting there in the editing bay staring at footage trying to figure out some way to make a pop up. They remind of the facts used at baseball games when a player is up at bat, and they really haven't done much, so the fact is some random thing about how they're the first player to hit two singles on the first Tuesday of a month beginning in J.

 

 

Fuck you, your worn sneakers and the womb you slide out of."

 

Omg...

[Ljohnson1987]

TFDW is  very fabulous. Does Pris realize that she basically married another woman?

[Ilovemylabs]

TFDW is  very fabulous. Does Pris realize that she basically married another woman?

 

What proof is here that he is gay?  And if he is, so what?  There are so many gays who have suffered whether in the closet or out.  I can't support gay rights and then mock him for being 'fabulous'.

[Almost 3000]

I think David does act a bit fabulous as do many people but I don't see that translating to being a woman or even like a woman.

[Darknight]

I think David is an ass

[Jellybeans]

Fabulous?

Perhaps he is a fabulous ass.

[dillpickles]

What proof is here that he is gay? And if he is, so what? There are so many gays who have suffered whether in the closet or out. I can't support gay rights and then mock him for being 'fabulous'.

It's all speculation my friend. And it would matter if he was gay because he's married to a woman.

[Almost 3000]

Thank you Brian, I'm sorry that's the definition because the notion of those qualities being womanish as a put down is not in any way fabulous. I'm going to go finish my fabulous holiday decorating while drinking some fabulous wine and then maybe I'll call a friend for some fabulous conversation. The word can be used in a non offensive way.

 

eta: I'm moving along now so as not to start something...

Edited December 2, 2014 by Almost 3000

[Chai]

I think Josh is starting to feel the stress of having 3 kids, a wife, a job and an annoying part-time job with TLC. The constant traveling alone has to annoy him not too mention having to travel in a piece of crap RV that keeps falling apart. I'm surprised he hasn't snapped yet. Then his wife 'hint hint' wants another baby. He's only 25-26 years old. Most guys his age would be flipping out having to fix an RV 3-4 times on a trip that's supposed to be a vacation.

I think it's a good thing that he and Anna moved to D.C. I think they needed to get away from circus.

For an RV that was falling apart, I was surprised to see the Discovery logo on it.

[purpleflowers]

I'm not trying to presume to know how Josh feels about having many more kids or a few more, but I couldn't help but chuckle when Anna was saying "I was number five, so three is a good start." I imagined Josh thinking "START?!" based on his lack of enthusiasm on that topic haha.

Edited December 3, 2014 by purpleflowers

[Joe Jitsu913]

Glad you said he is a fabulous ass instead of he has a fabulous ass.

Basically speaking whatever floats David's boat is his business, but when he puts himself out there in the public eye and gets paid to do so he's open to ridicule/speculation, etc..

I will criticize and call into question his sexuality and lifestyle especially since he likes to lecture us Godless heathens on morality, godliness and in general, shoving religion down our collective throats. The same goes for any other fundie.

When I say that David is effeminate, I'm not insulting, but calling like I see it.

[RazzleberryPie]

What proof is here that he is gay?  And if he is, so what?  There are so many gays who have suffered whether in the closet or out.  I can't support gay rights and then mock him for being 'fabulous'.

The ironic thing to me is that the Duggars, the group Josh works for, Gothard (David's employer) actively support limiting rights for gays, believe they are terrible, wanton, dangerous, perverted sinners who chose to live their lives actively seeking to be molesting children, destroying marriage and family, and disobeying God, because they're evil and sinful. So, when David displays some very stereotypical fabulous mannerisms that would cause 99% of the population to presume he's gay, it tends to make me cock my head with a side-eyed squint and want to shake them all until they rethink their perceptions of gay = evil.

[Betweenyouandme]

Not all effeminate men are gay just like not all masculine women are lesbian.