S05.E06: Consumed

[ghoulina]

Nice callback to the S1 episode Guts, Darryl and Noah escaping in a similar truck.

 

I was so waiting for it to say Ferenc on the side!

 

I feel like he actually was going to leave Noah to die, rather than trying to manipulate Carol.

 

I agree. I think he changed his mind about Noah being "just a kid" when Carol got injured so badly because they were running around without their fancy gun and crossbow. But, as usual, Daryl is pretty malleable if someone he cares about is begging him to do something. 

 

I didn't like the darkness in many of the earlier episodes, but darkness was used well in this one.

 

I agree. So many great shots last night. What I had a problem with this time was the sound. I came here and read some of the things they said and was like, "Oh". 

[nodorothyparker]

I get excited every time someone explores a beautiful, unspoiled building. I keep imagining how great it would feel to find safe water and food and self-help books.

 

I love the way the writers find new ways to present zombies. The invisible, fumbling zombie-trapped-in-a-tent was hilarious. Anybody who has ever tried to quickly get out of a tent in the middle of the night will appreciate it.

The visuals were really wonderful this episode even if some of it was just more strewn paper and cardboard, the apparent universal symbol of urban abandonment and decay.  I'm always fascinated whenever characters wander into a mostly untouched place because the things that are left behind tell you so much about whoever had once inhabited it.  I was relieved Daryl was able to go into what had obviously been a nice place and confine himself to snarking on the art rather than going into another full-fledged childish snit about what rich people had had before. I also love the random bits where you can see that people tried to make a go of it and failed, letting you fill in the blanks of what may have happened. 

 

This is also the first episode I can remember in quite awhile where walkers were presented as something more than just for the gross-out factor.  The walker mother and child were heartbreaking without anything really needing to be said and a poignant reminder we haven't had in some time that they used to be people.  Daryl quietly taking care of them so Carol wouldn't have to was a nice acknowledgement of that and said so much about both of them and the people they had been.  The camping walkers were wrongly hilarious and sad at the same time.  Imagine your afterlife being stuck trapped inside a sleeping bag forever.  A couple of the squirming sleeping bags appeared to have bullet wounds and blood stains but again left you to draw your own conclusions about the story there.

Edited November 17, 2014 by nodorothyparker

[kj4ever]

I would have loved this episode if it had been cut in half.  It was like they had a bunch of extra footage from the other episodes that they didn't use so decided to fill this episode up with it.  I did like the flashback to why she went back to the prison, but showing her watching Karvid burn and burying Lizzie was just a waste of my time.  We all know Carol has done some horrific things, Carol knows she has done some horrific things, and bringing them back is like beating a dead horse.

 

Count me in as one who thought Daryl wanted Carol to save Noah, and gave her that chance.  She needed it.

 

I actually think if they would have cut the Beth episode in half and this episode in half I think it would have been just about perfect.  Both were way to slow, and as this episode reached the 30 minute mark I was starting to panic because it seemed like nothing was going to happen but damn flashbacks.

 

MM killed it as always, but NR was mumbling to much again.  I had a hard time understanding him a few times.

[ghoulina]

The walker mother and child were heartbreaking without anything really needing to be said and a poignant reminder we haven't had in some time that they used to be people.

 

Amen to that. That was one of the things that drew me in with the pilot - the treatment of Bicycle Girl and Morgan's wife. Zombies are so prevalent these days, I enjoyed the tragic sadness angle instead of just the gross-out angle. I would definitely like to see more of that. 

[Primetimer]

Memories burn and people change as Carol and Daryl go looking for Beth.

Read the story

[nodorothyparker]

I don't need every walker kill to be Rick standing over them reading the contents of their wallet to give them meaning like he did way back in Guts, and I do get that by now the novelty has long since worn off for our gang and that they're mostly just an annoyance to be dealt with.  But I really like the little moments when someone takes at least a beat or two among all the cool zombie kills to remember that these monsters used to be someone who had a life too.  That's about the only redeeming thing I've found so far in the entire saga of Father Pee Pants.  He had known the walker at the food pantry and remembered her.

[Ottis]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz. Is there a TV rule that says you can't have steady pacing during a season? This season started off fantastic, and now we have 3 boring eps in a row. What was the point of walking us through the Daryl and Carol show only to get us back to where we were three episodes ago? Yes, Carol was abused. Yes, she and Daryl are different. Yes, Carol is taken into the hospital. And sooooooo ... now can we learn something new?

 

I would have loved this episode if it had been cut in half.  It was like they had a bunch of extra footage from the other episodes that they didn't use so decided to fill this episode up with it.

 

 

Yes!

Edited November 17, 2014 by Ottis

[NoWillToResist]

I took Carol’s “you were a boy but now you’re a man” as a compliment: you were an immature dick with anger issues but now you're more mature.

 

I can totally understand that if you aren't a big Carol fan that you'd hate this episode. But for me, MMB kills it so much in this role that I think I'd be fine to watch an episode with just her and Daryl talking. She and NR have such great chemistry.

 

I appreciated the little bits of humour we got. The van scene was initially stupid (why are you WALKING towards it? Why are you both in the front when Carol just identified that it was unstable?) but the tension was very well done when it came to the actual tip/fall. I felt Carol's fear when it started to tip; you could almost see her prepare herself for that stomach drop before the plummet. Her grabbing Daryl's hand and the (IMO) many layers of his "hold on!" were lovely. I have no idea how they weren't more banged up though.

 

Poor Carol. How much more are they going to put her through? Dead husband, dead daughter, almost died in the prison, banished, dead adopted girl, had to kill the other one, busted shoulder, run over, captive of rapist assholes...

 

Honestly if they just up and kill her now, I will never forgive this show.

 

I felt that the cigarette scene with Daryl was showing him regressing to his earlier "fuck everyone" attitude but Carol managed to bring him back. They seem to bring out the better sides of each other.

 

Oh, one more thing: I know that the hospital cops are dicks but holy God, how blind are they? There's a car twenty feet behind you. Sure, the lights are out but there's a moon! How the hell do you not see it? How do you not realize that there's a car at the side of the street which wasn't there when you passed that stretch of road two minutes prior? And there's a walker freaking out, trying to get in it. WTF??

Edited November 17, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[SoSueMe]

It is interesting to me that after a year and a half (or whatever time frame it is supposed to be) since the ZA, the horror and shock has subsided and the walkers are mostly treated as obstacles and annoyances (although deadly) that must be periodically dealt with. I guess that would be inevitable if one wanted to maintain their sanity. I'm thinking of Carol in the car rolling down the window to put down the walker. Very cut and dried.

[ghoulina]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz. Is there a TV rule that says you can't have steady pacing during a season? This season started off fantastic, and now we have 3 boring eps in a row. What was the point of walking us through the Daryl and Carol show only to get us back to where we were three episodes ago? Yes, Carol was abused. Yes, she and Daryl are different. Yes, Carol is taken into the hospital. And sooooooo ... now can we learn something new?

 

I felt we did learn some new things. 

 

We learned what Noah has been up to since leaving, that's he's been hanging around fairly close, probably with the intention of going back to help Beth. And we learned who was in the bushes with Daryl that night and just HOW Carol ended up in the hospital - all of which was just spec before. 

 

We learned where Carol went after being banished, and that she didn't hesitate for a minute to come back when she realized they were in trouble. We learned that she once took Sophia to a shelter to get away from Ed, but left the next day - something which she apparently still hates herself for. I think a lot of Carol's angst isn't just about the things that have happened since the turn (Karvid, the Grove), but her life prior. I think the Carol that she is now HATES the Carol that she was then, and she's having a very hard time forgiving herself what she put Sophia through. 

 

We also learned that Daryl seems to finally be getting to a place where he's ready to work through HIS issues, given that he took that book from the shelter. 

[tv echo]

I liked this episode very much, although I missed Rick.  It might've been slow in parts, but the character-oriented stories interspersed with the more action-oriented stories make this show work for me.  (If I wanted to watch just zombies being killed week after week, I'd watch Z Nation.)  I understand the complaints, though.  Perhaps if they had Darryl, Carol and Noah rescue Beth by themselves in this same episode?  Although I am looking forward to Rick & gang to the rescue next week.

 

I see a deep bond between Darryl and Carol, but nothing romantic.  I agree that Carol wanting to save Noah under the bookcase after wanting to shoot him dead (I also don't think she was aiming for his leg) was odd.  Darryl should've left Noah to die - the kid took his crossbow and left them facing walkers!   The water in that water cooler had to have been sitting there for years - it must be bacteria-laden.

 

I noticed that Michael Cudlitz's name appeared in the opening credits before Emily Kinney and Chad Coleman.  Usually, they list the main cast first and then the rest of the regular cast in alphabetical order.  So I guess this means we're stuck with Abraham for awhile, but Beth and Tyrese are probably doomed?

Edited November 17, 2014 by tv echo

[mandolin]

I think the bottle episodes are not to delve deep, they are to wrap up. The show is not giving us new chapters on characters, they are closing a book to start a very different new one, and that's why Michonne has no lines. That's why Carl is background. That's why Rick and Sasha and Tyreese are MIA. Because we'll be seeing plenty of them soon.They'll have lots of lines soon. Because they will appear in the new TWD 2.0.

Some other people won't.

But also because they already closed the book on their previous chapter. Your comment kind of opened up my eyes. It helps me accept the lack of my people (CDB + Michonne) in the past few episodes. They haven't been needed because their arc is done. We are waiting for the next evolution of the show. I still felt Slabtown was waaaay too boring for how little they accomplished, but I accept it because all the characters can now join up, and come out together on the other side. I still miss Rick, but I accept this a bit more now. (a tiny bit)

 

I thought this was a good episode. I of course love having original characters in it, and seeing all the familiar sights of Atlanta (from real life and from the pilot) are really what I love about post-apocalyptic stuff. Everything is gone; such a hard thing to wrap my brain around, but it makes for great scenery.

 

I was excited to see Rick in flashback and will be so glad to get the gang back together. I am kind of surprised the hospital is the current "big bad" after the Termites were dispatched so quickly. I kind of didn't see it coming, which is another reason Slabtown bored me. I wasn't ready to invest in those people so soon after the victory over Gareth, et al.

 

I think the special effects team needs to work a bit harder sometimes...when Daryl killed the walker in the face with the machete (?) he found...it was super fake. Like, really bad. I also didn't love the song choices this episode (or this season).

 

Not much action wise happened, but for me, the episode sped by and I enjoyed every minute.

[CloverTracey]

Aw come on you folks not wanting a caro/Daryl hookup! They have demonstrated their comfort with each other, they are looking out for each other, and providing badly needed emotional respite for each other. Next step would not surprise me, and more importantly...works with thei development as characters.

[JackONeill]

I think (and this is perhaps not just MY idea) but they should have taken the best of the last three episodes and made that one show.  There was a lot of [walking] dead space in these three episodes.  And it's sort of frustrating that we're right back where we started a month ago.

 

I do think that in each of these three episodes there have been things that have been done well, or that were helpful, or were interesting.  I do think this episode was the best of the three, and many people have already hit on the things that I thought were well-executed.

 

The one off-note, for me and as has already been mentioned by another, was the van.  Yeah, it was cool and all, but I find it hard to believe Daryl and Carol would have allowed themselves to get trapped.  They knew they had walkers trailing them.  Yet they didn't seem to have a game plan.  Then, next thing you know, when they turn around, they're surrounded.  I think it was a way to give us a James Bond type stunt.  Which would have been cooler, if it hadn't meant that our people screwed up.  I just can't see Daryl allowing that to happen.

Edited November 17, 2014 by JackONeill

[Trek]

Liked this episode but didn’t love it. I don’t ship Daryl with anyone, but the chemistry and understanding between them is light years superior than Beth/Daryl who’s episode and a half together last season was the worst segment in the series entire run as far as I’m concerned.

 

That said, there were parts of it that felt padded out to me. This episode could have been condensed and bundled with the Hospital episode.

 

1) I felt that they actually struggled to come up with different ways for Carol/Daryl to have interaction points.The zombified mom/daughter and the therapy book were fine. However, once they had to resort to ripping off Michonne’s playbook (she’s the art connoisseur pre-ZA, not Carol) to try to make a point about “I know you/not as well as you think” should have cued them that they were putting in too much.

 

2) Splitting the meet-up with Noah into two distinct segments was bad (IMO). The whole first meeting was just a convenient way for them to lose their weapons to set up the “trapped in a van” set piece they already had in mind. However, if they plan on making Noah a long term addition to CDB, that scene would have done him no favors as a character.

 

They also filmed it from a viewers’ point of view rather than the character’s which is a device I don’t like. i.e. We are supposed to think the decision not to shoot Noah was right because, as viewers, we already know Noah is a good guy. However, Carol and Daryl do not have this information.  If, like them, we had never seen Noah before, we’d absolutely think he should have been shot in the leg. Some hostile dude, unprovoked, had stolen their weapons and unleashed walkers at them. This is up and up murder in mind whatever the words coming out of his mouth. Losing all their weapons is likely to kill them, kill their mission, and as a result kill Beth too, not taking Noah out is actually a very stupid move with no meta information on hand.

 

3) While I enjoyed the 1st flashback well enough, the rest didn’t really do anything.  Good flashbacks should tell us something about a character’s backstory and/or motivations that we don’t already know.  Abraham’s flashback and Michonne’s dreamback did this really well.  The only thought I had when Carol was cleaning her face with the underside of the walker gore garment was “err, girl, you know that blood seeps through cloth right?”

 

Like many, I feel this was padded so as to make it a good send-off for Carol. The ‘redemptive’ coming back re Noah under the book case, IMO, is not the start of a "coming back from this" arc. It’s the redemption treatment everyone gets (even Merle) before going bye-bye…

 

Which makes me really nervous that there was smoke and/or fire in virtually every scene of her flashback journey. Combine this with talk about heaven/hell, her different personas being "burnt" away…surely they can’t be setting her up to literally DIAF, could they? After Kravid, it’s just the kind of Karmic circle symbolism writers everywhere seem to adore. Plus it adds a new shock factor and TWD are always looking for ways to do that.  That would be way too cruel.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Trek

[NoWillToResist]

I agree that Carol wanting to save Noah under the bookcase after wanting to shoot him dead (I also don't think she was aiming for his leg) was odd.  Darryl should've left Noah to die - the kid took his crossbow and left them facing walkers!   The water in that water cooler had to have been sitting there for years - it must be bacteria-laden.

 

When Carol was aiming at Noah, she was aiming very low. Noah is tall; if she wanted to kill him, she'd have to have aimed higher, IMO. (That said, any gun wound could be fatal in the ZA, I suppose). I think Noah let out walkers to buy him some time to escape from Carol and Daryl.

 

I agree that the water was probably not very nice...I thought Carol's grimace after drinking some post-crash was a nod to that, but I may be wrong.

 

Why couldn't the walkers get out of the tents? I get that they can't figure out zippers but these guys tend to shred stuff, so why couldn't they shred the plastic of the tent and get out? Why couldn't the walkers get out of the sleeping bags? Is there a reason these ones don't know how to crawl?

 

Loved that both Carol and Daryl jumped when the walker approached their car at the beginning of the episode. Jaded they may be, but they can still be surprised.

 

I'm still trying to figure out what the purpose was  of going into the van. Were they expecting the bad guys to have written down their evil plan in detail, complete with their location, the number of people they had, blueprints of their layout etc.? I mean, just because they use a stretcher from Hospital X doesn't mean they're hiding out there...

Edited November 17, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[GaiusB]

Pretty good episode. I liked it even though i do not  like Daryl much and i dislike Carol a lot. It was just very atmospheric and nicely shot. And Carol was better then usually, she was not that anoying fan service Rambo woman. It is good she is really injured and not on some sort of stupid undercover mission, which could only succeed for the same reasons as any other action scenes on this show do - because of a massive plot armor, that trash any sort of logic, common sense and realism into the dust.

 

Which is why i am worried about what will happen next. I suspect it will be as bad as both confrontation with  The Governor. Tons of plot holes, plot armors and at the end Rick group will massacre another group of survivors. At this point it would be best for humanity if Rick group was killed off instead, they destroy everything and everyone they meet.

[JackONeill]

And one more thing (that at least one other person pointed out):  Ain't no way the cops didn't know (or wouldn't have known is a better way of saying it) they were being trailed by another car.  C'mon, you're already on guard, it's night, walkers are everywhere, it's deathly quiet, and a large dark car is following behind you in your exact same path.  C'mon.

 

Now, what would have been cool, is if they had acknowledged that.  Then we could have had a Rockford Files car chase, knocking over walkers, and tearing down streets.  That would have been COOL.  (But not exactly in keeping with the show. Alas.)

[kj4ever]

 

They also filmed it from a viewers’ point of view rather than the character’s which is a device I don’t like. i.e. We are supposed to think the decision not to shoot Noah was right because, as viewers, we already know Noah is a good guy. However, Carol and Daryl do not have this information.  If, like them, we had never seen Noah before, we’d absolutely think he should have been shot in the leg. Some hostile dude, unprovoked, had stolen their weapons and unleashed walkers at them. This is up and up murder in mind whatever the words coming out of his mouth. Losing all their weapons is likely to kill them, kill their mission, and as a result kill Beth too, not taking Noah out is actually a very stupid move with no meta information on hand.

 

Can you imagine how awesome this episode could have been if Slabtown would have opened with Noah robbing Daryl and Carol, with us not knowing who he is yet?  They could then use flashbacks to show Beth's situation and her helping Noah escape, mixed with Daryl and Carol's journey to find her. 

[PunkyMouse]

I really really loved this episode. There wasn't an over abundance of action and yet the episode moved so quickly.

I thought it was so moving that the one building that they found in Atlanta was the building Carol knew because it was a battered women's shelter. It was really sweet of Daryl to take care of the walkers so that Carol wouldn't have to face it.

I really enjoyed the conversations that Carol and Daryl had. I like the quiet intensity of them. NR and MMB are such talented actors and I really admire how much they can say without saying a word.

Edited November 17, 2014 by PunkyMouse

[nodorothyparker]

Why couldn't the walkers get out of the tents? I get that they can't figure out zippers but these guys tend to shred stuff, so why couldn't they shred the plastic of the tent and get out? Why couldn't the walkers get out of the sleeping bags? Is there a reason these ones don't know how to crawl.

Apparently the tents are made of stronger stuff than Dale.  We saw a walker basically disembowel him with its bare hands way back in season 2 but they can't tear through a nylon tent.  Or maybe like a lot of us they get so befuddled trying to manage the zipper that it never occurs to them to just rip through it.

 

I'm still trying to figure out what the purpose was  of going into the van. Were they expecting the bad guys to have written down their evil plan in detail, complete with their location, the number of people they had, blueprints of their layout etc.? I mean, just because they use a stretcher from Hospital X doesn't mean they're hiding out there...

 

They didn't get the memo that not every villain is going to be the James Bond/Gov./Terminus kind of villain who has to lay out all their evil plans first.  They probably thought there would be a handy "Your guide to the evil hospital" book complete with map with a big red piratey X in the glove box.

[NoWillToResist]

It just seemed weird to me because, sure the guys may drive an ambulance but that doesn't mean their hideout is a hospital. The Governor had a tank in Woodbury, Abraham et al were driving a fire engine (for ten feet)...your vehicle does not necessarily lead one back to your home base.

 

One other criticism about a major contrivance: going into the office building from the tent bridge, Carol went face first into the unknown zone. Smart. Coming out, she put her weapon first and then BACKED OUT into a place where she knew there were walkers. What if the ones in the tent had got out in the meantime?? That was sloppy and OOC...just to allow for Noah to ambush them.

[Straycat80]

I enjoyed this episode. My only complaint is that Daryl needs to enunciated better, I couldn't understand some of his lines.

[poppy-]

I don't know if Daryl is technically a virgin but I don't think he's ever been in a romantic relationship. 

It would not surprise me at all to learn Merle is a rapist and Darryl isn't.  That kind of sums them up, right there.

 

I can't imagine a place less likely to lead to horniness than the women's shelter you went to with your kid, before you brought her back to the abuser. Even someone who had never seen any of the episodes with Sophia would get that.   Come to think of it, Darryl was pretty torn up about Sophia too.  Not  a good night.

 

It was an interesting choice of Darryl to NOT ask about the girls when Carol was basically requesting that he does so.  He sometimes acts like a mentor to her.

[nodorothyparker]

One other criticism about a major contrivance: going into the office building from the tent bridge, Carol went face first into the unknown zone. Smart. Coming out, she put her weapon first and then BACKED OUT into a place where she knew there were walkers. What if the ones in the tent had got out in the meantime?? That was sloppy and OOC...just to allow for Noah to ambush them.

That's one of those things you have to chalk up to only making sense because that's what the script says they do so Noah can rob them.  Sometimes I really have to remind myself this show is one long horror movie and like the Geico commercial tells us "When you're in a horror movie, you make poor decisions.  It's what you do."  Because otherwise, yeah, just sloppy and stupid for two characters who are trying really hard to be neither.

[ghoulina]

When Carol was aiming at Noah, she was aiming very low. Noah is tall; if she wanted to kill him, she'd have to have aimed higher, IMO. (That said, any gun wound could be fatal in the ZA, I suppose). I think Noah let out walkers to buy him some time to escape from Carol and Daryl.

 

I agree. I did think Carol was really just aiming to wound, not kill. Although, in this world a simple wound can kill...eventually. 

 

 

It just seemed weird to me because, sure the guys may drive an ambulance but that doesn't mean their hideout is a hospital. The Governor had a tank in Woodbury, Abraham et al were driving a fire engine (for ten feet)...your vehicle does not necessarily lead one back to your home base.

 

This is true, but at this point it's all they had to go one. Daryl had seen two different cars with white crosses on the back, and then realized the ambulance had the same decal. So why not check it out? It might be a dead end, but right now the trail is cold. It can't hurt to try this angle. 

[Turtle]

Carol showing compassion later on in the episode in the effort to save Noah seemed out of place, since she was about to shoot him not that long ago.

 

I saw that as Carol being willing to hurt a human to save herself/ others (or their weapons, which are necessary to survival), but not willing to just leave a helpless person to be eaten.  Even if the two happen to be the same person.  Also, aiming a gun at him happened in the spur of the moment, and she reacted quickly.  Noah under the bookcase gave her more time to think about it.​

 

Interesting thoughts about whether Daryl is a virgin.  My take on him has always been that he's an intimacy virgin, but probably not a physical one.  I doubt he's ever had any emotional attachments as deep as the ones he has now.  

ETA: Or, what poppy- said!

Edited November 17, 2014 by Turtle

[kikismom]

I don't know if Daryl is technically a virgin but I don't think he's ever been in a romantic relationship. 

It would not surprise me at all to learn Merle is a rapist and Darryl isn't.

I believe Daryl once said (in his immortal way)  "He AIN'T no RAPIST!" or something similar back when they were choosing to take back Merle or Michonne.

[mightysparrow]

I thought the best part of the episode was watching the man Daryl was choosing to become.  When he was at the prison, all the love and respect were new and he gave the impression he didn't trust it 100%.  That's why he slipped back after the prison fell.  But now it seems that he's decided that he really wants to be that guy and is working towards that goal so that he won't lose it if the shit comes down again.  Maybe it's because of offering his life for Rick and Rick telling him what that meant.  Merle didn't appear to be the kind of guy who appreciated sacrifices made for his sake.  And Daryl sacrificed a lot for him.  Daryl also saw just how far a man will go for the people he loves.  That book falling out of his backpack was a big thing, in my opinion because it means that he's going to heal himself.  And that's a beautiful thing.

 

We now know that Carol's 'banishment' was 24 hours.  It also looked like she had gone pretty far from the prison, so she probably wasn't thinking of sticking around to see how the girls were doing.  I thought the flashbacks were overkill.  Yes we get it.  Killing two innocent people was sooooooooo hard on Carol. Nobody's ever suffered more.  Except she's with someone who might just have suffered as much as she has, also at the hands of someone who was supposed to love them.  Has Carol ever taken her head out of her own ass to consider what her friend has endured?  She's to busy saying 'don't ask me about the girls because I won't tell you'.  Over and over again, even though Daryl has said he doesn't need to know.

 

I'm looking forward to the end of this part of season 5.  It's been a disappointment for me.  I'm think I'm going to enjoy the break; I'd like to feel excited about TWD again.

[PunkyMouse]

I enjoyed this episode. My only complaint is that Daryl needs to enunciated better, I couldn't understand some of his lines.

Yeah, I was considering turning on the closed captioning myself.

As far as Carol dying, if it happens I don't think it will be at mid season. And if it happens at the end of this season I would not at all be surprised to see a Carol/Daryl hookup before then.

[Timetoread]

I liked this episode.  A lot.  I tend to very much enjoy these quieter small group character examinations because, and here I out myself as the ultimate nerd/geek, I think the subject of apocalypse is very cerebral - as it doesn't deal primarily with WHAT people do to survive, but WHY they even want to survive.  Who am I?  Who was I then?  Who could I be?  Who should I be?  Very existential.  So this episode hit it on the nose for me.  I am finishing this paragraph by admitting *quietly* that unlike all of fandom I have not been a huge fan of Carol or Daryl throughout the series.  Daryl was ok enough because he was strong and useful but I wasn't really invested in him as a person.  Carol I downright disliked.

 

From the beginning I've thought Carol to be somebody's poor excuse for something.  An eternal victim, immobile, a burden, untrustworthy.  When fandom declared her badass, I had to check my vision because I didn't see that at all.  I saw no honor, no valor, and no point to the killings she committed in the prison.  I never understood the almost unanimous acquittal she received from viewers for what was essentially vigilantism.  I was puzzled by the declarations that she had "grown", was "tough", was "proactive".  I didn't see any growth and I felt that her every action was out of fear and victimhood.  With this episode, I feel vindicated.  It seems that Carol and I agree on who Carol really was.  I hated her after Karvid, but I forgave her after The Grove.  Losing Mika like that.  Having to kill Lizzy was, IMO, all the punishment any decent person would ever need.  I felt during The Grove that this would be the catalyst to the emergence of a new Carol - perhaps the REAL Carol.  It's not about being badass or not, it's about knowing WHY you do the things you do - otherwise you are just an animal acting on instinct.  I felt that the flashbacks and the constant symbolism of burning represented Carol struggling to answer the "who am I" question and I think her answer came to her at the end with the decision to save Noah - even if it meant going against Daryl.  THAT is growth. THAT is being bad ass.  Not sneaking and teaching kids things but begging them not to tell their parents.  No, making her decision, explaining why she wants it and facing down the opposition.  THAT is being a whole person.  I hope she doesn't die because I think that she will be a HUGE asset to the group from now on.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Timetoread

[candall]

Aw come on you folks not wanting a caro/Daryl hookup! They have demonstrated their comfort with each other, they are looking out for each other, and providing badly needed emotional respite for each other. Next step would not surprise me, and more importantly...works with thei development as characters.

Well, I did NOT want to see Daryl hop on top at this particular juncture, but ye gods, woman, you're breaking my heart.  She's at the battered women shelter where she had to go with her now-dead daughter and she can't even curl up in that bunk and let Daryl hold her for awhile?  Poor Carol--she doesn't think she deserves anything at all.  Not even to "take a bit of comfort there." 

[shanndee]

 

 

This is also the first episode I can remember in quite awhile where walkers were presented as something more than just for the gross-out factor.  The walker mother and child were heartbreaking without anything really needing to be said and a poignant reminder we haven't had in some time that they used to be people.  Daryl quietly taking care of them so Carol wouldn't have to was a nice acknowledgement of that and said so much about both of them and the people they had been.  

 

Something else that this scene showed (discussed on Talking Dead) was that Carol actually cried watching Daryl do this for her. This was the first time in a very long time she hasn't had to do something like this all by herself (I'm looking at you Tyreese!) and she realizes that maybe she doesn't always have to be so hard and strong...there are others she can rely on who will help her.

 

Daryl's quick nod when she thanked him was also telling. He didn't need to be thanked for doing something for someone he cared about, especially when he knew how difficult it would be for her. He just did it because it was the right thing to do.

Edited November 17, 2014 by shanndee

[Pestilentia]

 

I didn't like the darkness in many of the earlier episodes, but darkness was used well in this one. The scene where they break into a building for a place to spend the night while all we could see was a whole throng of shapes moving towards them in the dark streets? That was pretty scary. And probably very good for the budget because they didn't have to put makeup on the zombie extras for that shot.

I noticed that scene enough that I rewound immediately!

It was a dark and empty alley with only shadows- and I looked at the shadows to make sure there was nothing there!

Then, somehow, moving figues began to almost materialize right before my eyes as they emerged then sort of oozed forward- it was magnificient!

 

I think getting into a van that precarious was so stupid even a five year old would know better.

 

I do think the cops saw them.

The guy turned and stood for several seconds as if he was staring right at them, and they cut back and forth between them a time or two.

[Misty79]

I like the conversations. Zombies are ok and the effects are awesome, but I'm in it for the story.

 

I am too. I actually kind of dislike the gore, and would happily forego most of the zombie scenes. But for me the story wasn't really advanced here at all, either in terms of characterization or progressing the plot much, other than perhaps softening Carol a bit. I think if this episode had featured anyone other than two established crowd favourites it wouldn't be getting a free pass. It just moved too slowly for me and was a  little nonsensical in places (really Carol you're going to move to the front of the van with Daryl as it hangs over the edge of an overpass?). If we're getting a character driven episode then I would have preferred something other than long, numb silences and a rehashing of the past that ultimately led nowhere new. 

 

The heavy handed symbolic smoke/fire/burning metaphors got a bit much for me after a while too. I hope that Carol isn't about to become 'ashes' to complete the metaphor.

 

Of the last three episodes I actually preferred the Beth centric one. They've all been slow and character focused, but it was the most fundamentally interesting to me. (Which isn't really saying a lot as none of them have be A grade TWD).

 

Stunning visuals in this ep though!

[RustbeltWriter]

I really enjoyed this episode. The interaction with Daryl and Carol was nice but the fact that it happened in some place other than the woods was nice too. I enjoyed the change of scenery, even if it was Atlanta bombed to hell.

 

I'm hoping to be surprised when they go to rescue Beth. I understand that the crew in the hospital aren't great but they do have a functioning community that is somewhat safe and well supported by a doctor and police. Is it ideal? No, but it may be the best you find. If I'm Rick and I've got Carl and Judith depending on me, I may think twice before laying waste to a place like Grady Memorial. Maybe this is where pragmatism rears its head and Rick's crew realize they don't have to like everyone to trade goods and services with them. It will be interesting to see what the writers do.

[poppy-]

We now know that Carol's 'banishment' was 24 hours.  It also looked like she had gone pretty far from the prison, so she probably wasn't thinking of sticking around to see how the girls were doing.  I thought the flashbacks were overkill.  Yes we get it.  Killing two innocent people was sooooooooo hard on Carol. Nobody's ever suffered more.  Except she's with someone who might just have suffered as much as she has, also at the hands of someone who was supposed to love them.  Has Carol ever taken her head out of her own ass to consider what her friend has endured?  She's to busy saying 'don't ask me about the girls because I won't tell you'.  Over and over again, even though Daryl has said he doesn't need to know.

 

It's not a competition.  It's not who suffered more. It's: why go on? Carol was a failure in life  (in her eyes) before the apocalypse, then lost her husband, then her daughter, then her community of Rick etc., then her next community of Tyreese & the girls.  Now she's on a mission to save Beth even though we have no reason to think cares about Beth, and on top of htat "we don't get to rescue people anymore". Mostly because Darryl's force of will is pulling her along.    What's the point?  Perhaps you're suggesting she should work towards helping her friends. But she basically has written everyone  off.  She fled the church because she expected all those people to die, like everyone else, and she couldn't bear to watch it.  From a character viewpoint, it wouldn't make any sense for her to get more emotionally enmeshed in her friend's struggles.  It's pretty much one foot in front of the other survival mode.

[Sofie Fatale]

I loved the episode and FINALLY we got to see a different landscape other than the backwoods of Georgia. It was creepy and interesting to see the city completely ravaged like that. I also always find the silent "going on a run, looking for anything useful" scenes fascinating, especially when it's with two people like Daryl and Carol. Those two are like a well oiled machine. Not much talking necessary.

For the first time I actually saw sexual chemistry between them while they were in the shelter. Until now I always got a platonic vibe. It was hot.

I really also like the actor playing Noah. I too think he was gathering weapons to go get Beth, and I kind of loved when he said that Daryl and Carol looked tough lol. I don't blame him for not trusting anyone after being in that hospital for so long, it just sucks that it was our peeps.

I think they hit Carol on purpose.

When Daryl said "we got guns and people too" I thought oh yeah it's on now!!

I don't thing crossbow or katana can ever truly be away from their master and mistress. They always find a way back.

[pagooey]

I thought the best part of the episode was watching the man Daryl was choosing to become.  When he was at the prison, all the love and respect were new and he gave the impression he didn't trust it 100%.  That's why he slipped back after the prison fell.  But now it seems that he's decided that he really wants to be that guy and is working towards that goal so that he won't lose it if the shit comes down again.  Maybe it's because of offering his life for Rick and Rick telling him what that meant.  Merle didn't appear to be the kind of guy who appreciated sacrifices made for his sake.  And Daryl sacrificed a lot for him.  Daryl also saw just how far a man will go for the people he loves.  That book falling out of his backpack was a big thing, in my opinion because it means that he's going to heal himself.  And that's a beautiful thing.

Very well put, mightysparrow! (Though I have to admit, as touched as I was to see that Daryl had grabbed that book, I giggled wondering when exactly he plans to fit in some time for therapeutic research.)

[NoWillToResist]

 

it's all they had to go one. Daryl had seen two different cars with white crosses on the back, and then realized the ambulance had the same decal. So why not check it out? It might be a dead end, but right now the trail is cold. It can't hurt to try this angle.

 

Oh I get that it was better than the nothing they had before but I had the impression that they expected to find something useful, rather than just hoping to find some clue.

 

 

With this episode, I feel vindicated.  It seems that Carol and I agree on who Carol really was.  I hated her after Karvid, but I forgave her after The Grove.  Losing Mika like that.  Having to kill Lizzy was, IMO, all the punishment any decent person would ever need.  I felt during The Grove that this would be the catalyst to the emergence of a new Carol - perhaps the REAL Carol.  It's not about being badass or not, it's about knowing WHY you do the things you do - otherwise you are just an animal acting on instinct.  I felt that the flashbacks and the constant symbolism of burning represented Carol struggling to answer the "who am I" question and I think her answer came to her at the end with the decision to save Noah - even if it meant going against Daryl.  THAT is growth.

 

I think this episode basically showed us Carol's entire character arc in one fell swoop. We were shown her beginnings: spousal abuse victim who crawled back to her abuser. We were then showed her snap way too far the other way, taking control, by killing Karen and David. We were then shown her getting a lesson in humility and loss via Mika/Lizzie. And now she's floundering a bit, still trying to figure out which Carol she is. Is she still the victim? Is she the punisher? Is she something else?

 

I don't think she's quite got the answer but she may be on her way to accepting that she's still a work in progress. She's not at her victim stage (she was going to shoot Noah to retrieve their weapons) but she's not at the prison stage (killing people) either because she wasn't going to shoot to kill Noah. She also wanted to save his life when he was trapped under the bookshelf despite the fact that he put her and Daryl at risk and threw a walker at her. So she has the capacity to forgive; she still has capacity for compassion.

 

I agree that her reaction to Daryl burning the bodies was also her realizing that being strong doesn't mean being alone. Strength can be found with people too.

 

 

Now she's on a mission to save Beth even though we have no reason to think cares about Beth, and on top of htat "we don't get to rescue people anymore"

 

Well, Carol did say that she didn't want Daryl to die and she didn't want Beth to die. I think the problem is that, regardless of what you want, the people you care about keep dying anyway. How do you keep going after so much loss and heartbreak? How do you motivate yourself? Why bother when rescuing people seems futile? I think her insistence on saving Noah, despite the shit he pulled on them, is a good sign for Carol.

 

I thought it was a great sign for Daryl that he picked up the book about abuse. But I was reading elsewhere that the book is designed for people who are CARING for abuse victims, which, if correct, implies that Daryl picked up the book to help him help Carol. And somehow I find that even more touching...

Edited November 17, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[CaughtOnTape]

I don't know if they meant it to be funny but I laughed SO hard when the walkers started hitting the roof of the van after it hit the ground.

[Sofie Fatale]

I thought the idea of multiple walkers stumbling around in a tent for a year and a half was hilarious...

[GenieinTX]

I have been surprised that more of these characters haven't slept together.  I get that they have other things to deal with, but sex is a pretty natural reaction to high-stress and high-adrenaline situations.  In reality, I think there would be a lot more comfort sex going on

 

.

 

I heard an interview with the guy that plays Abraham on EW radio and he said exactly the same thing.  He said he felt the show didn't have near as much sex as it should.  People would be having sex, for sure.  Now, there may be a very good reason that Daryl and Carol aren't, like maybe he is very shy about sex or something, but other people would be doing it a lot.  The show just isn't showing it.

[poppy-]

.

 

I heard an interview with the guy that plays Abraham on EW radio and he said exactly the same thing.  He said he felt the show didn't have near as much sex as it should.  People would be having sex, for sure.  Now, there may be a very good reason that Daryl and Carol aren't, like maybe he is very shy about sex or something, but other people would be doing it a lot.  The show just isn't showing it.

 

From a woman's perspective: no way. The idea of being pregnant is scary.  The idea of giving birth without a hospital or doctor or even a midwife is scary as hell. Then you have a screaming baby in a world with limited food that is full of monsters who want to eat anything that makes a sound.  No way.

[nodorothyparker]

Reading the recap, I laughed out loud at the thought that Daryl and Noah driving back to the church to find Rick and Co. is probably only the second most awkward road trip we've seen on the show.  "You stole our weapons and loosed walkers on us!"  "You dropped a bookcase on me and left me to be eaten!  Now you're taking me to a bunch of armed strangers!"  Still not as awkward as the conversation that must have taken place between the Gov. and his henchmen after gunning down all the Woodburies and driving off to parts unknown.  "Soooo .... about that attack on the prison ...."

Edited November 18, 2014 by nodorothyparker

[Spartan Girl]

Damn I was really hoping that Carol was faking an injury just to get into the hospital and blow them up from the inside.  I too am afraid this is the beginning of her send-off...but I really hope it isn't because she deserves to stay around longer after blowing Terminus up.

[The Mighty Peanut]

I was excited to see Rick in flashback and will be so glad to get the gang back together. I am kind of surprised the hospital is the current "big bad" after the Termites were dispatched so quickly. I kind of didn't see it coming, which is another reason Slabtown bored me. I wasn't ready to invest in those people so soon after the victory over Gareth, et al.

 

 

I wish the Termite threat had lasted a little longer, but overall I feel the big bad this season is a theme more than a central villain. It's the idea that people who were probably decent pre-ZA -- or at least not latent psychopaths of varying levels of functionality -- have become comfortable with evil provided it's carried out in a sterile setting under the pretense of serving a greater good. The termites were more in-your-face about it, but I imagine they considered their victims akin to free range cattle slaughtered quickly and humanely for the purpose of nourishment, as opposed to being horrifically devoured alive and left to turn and perpetuate the vicious and wasteful cycle.

 

The hospital is just another perversion of what a place of healing and sanctuary should constitute. I think Officer Slappy knows this on some level and that some of her OCD is rooted in her need to maintain the belief that her role is still to protect and serve society in order to reconcile turning a blind eye to the systematic rape of innocents, even rationalizing that it's just a form of taxes owed to maintain public order and safety. 

 

When I think of the crop of ex-law enforcers we've met through TWD and imagine how they conducted themselves pre-ZA...I see Rick as upholding the spirit of the law to maintain justice, Dawn upholding the letter of the law to maintain order, Shane passionately upholding what suits his mood at the time, and RapeCop upholding whatever avenue allows him to be a trigger happy, sexually intimidating, power tripping douche. Post-ZA, they're pretty much the same. 

 

ETA: When Noah said the hospital had weapons and people, and Daryl grunted "So do we"....I peed a little in my pants

Edited November 17, 2014 by The Mighty Peanut

[Ohwell]

Well.  That happened.  Carol is not compelling enough to me to want to see her for an entire hour.  I'm tired of the tight, pursed lips.  Even Darryl seems pussified and less interesting when he's around her. 

 

I'm more interested in Noah and he's only been on for a couple of episodes. 

Edited November 17, 2014 by Ohwell

[Pestilentia]

From a woman's perspective: no way. The idea of being pregnant is scary.  The idea of giving birth without a hospital or doctor or even a midwife is scary as hell. Then you have a screaming baby in a world with limited food that is full of monsters who want to eat anything that makes a sound.  No way.

One of the most common reactions to death is an immediate need to affirm life, and in most cases that affirmation takes place in the form of sex.

Ask any grief counselor.

They are surrounded- enveloped, even- by death.

There would be a percentage of women- some past childbearing, some sterile, many willing to trust to condoms or chance- in order to obtain some simple physical human comfort. And we never said exclusively penetrative sex, either.

I think there would be lots of hooking up happening.

[Muffyn]

I don't know if Daryl is technically a virgin but I don't think he's ever been in a romantic relationship. 

It would not surprise me at all to learn Merle is a rapist and Darryl isn't.  That kind of sums them up, right there.

 

I can't imagine a place less likely to lead to horniness than the women's shelter you went to with your kid, before you brought her back to the abuser. Even someone who had never seen any of the episodes with Sophia would get that.   Come to think of it, Darryl was pretty torn up about Sophia too.  Not  a good night.

I believe Daryl is not a virgin but as you said has never been in a serious romantic relationship.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some level of abuse and humiliation in much of his sexual experience, with Meryl or their father pushing him into situations he wasn't ready for or interested in.  

 

From a woman's perspective: no way. The idea of being pregnant is scary.  The idea of giving birth without a hospital or doctor or even a midwife is scary as hell. Then you have a screaming baby in a world with limited food that is full of monsters who want to eat anything that makes a sound.  No way.

I would opt for sexual activities unlikely to result in pregnancy.  Hand jobs and oral still exist, although given how stinky everyone is, I might stick with hands only.