S04.E07: Redux

[Tara Ariano]

Lockhart arrives. Carrie's investigation gets complicated.

[shelley1234]

I am pretty sure I officially hate Homeland.  So Carrie goes one day without her meds and turns into a babbling, incoherent basket case?  One of the things that drives me bonkers about the show is how wildly inconsistent they are with Carrie and her mental health.  Season One she turns into a basket case within days of not having her meds and her sister needs to come over and be with her to get her through it.  Later on she is symptom free through the magical world of positive thought and running.  She has been shown to be in situations where she clearly doesn't have access to her meds before and only shows symptoms when it is convenient for the show.  Disappointed show, disappointed.  

 

And once again they are in the middle of an absolute crisis and no one notices that Carrie is missing?  Jesus, the fake version of the CIA in Homeland sure does suck.  

 

On a shallow note...it was nice to see Damian Lewis and his pretty eyes again, even if he is only in Carrie's head.   

[Goodnight]

I felt as crazy as Carrie watching this episode.

[bluphoenix451]

I am pretty sure I officially hate Homeland.  So Carrie goes one day without her meds and turns into a babbling, incoherent basket case? 

I didn't think this was simply Carrie being off her meds. I assumed they replaced her meds with another drug and that's what sent her over the top.

[Morbs]

And she wasn't symptom free when she was just running and off her meds.  She was manic and not sleeping though she lied and said she was.

 

But this episode was as hard for me to watch as some of the Homeland Teen stories they used to do.  They've gotten enough mileage out of Carrie's illness, it's just boring now. 

[HollaMcDollar]

So... Was it awful? Please give honest opinions...

[Blakeston]

I think the makers of Homeland are bitter that Claire Danes lost the Emmy for last season, so they gave her this ridiculous "someone's sabotaging her pills!" storyline, thinking it would secure her another win.

 

I doubt it will work, though. This was just cringeworthy.

[Kerrey92]

Hated it.

[HollaMcDollar]

They are definitely bitter about getting no nominations. Gansa all but said exactly that. I just think they are clueless how to fix it and make great TV again.

Hated it.

Thanks for your candor. So sad how fall it's fallen.

[TVHappy9463]

I guess I am in the minority, but I liked this episode.  Carrie has always suppressed her feelings, and her lack of meds allowed her subconscious to flow free.  I'm gonna be pissed if Saul dies.  Loved seeing Damian Lewis.  

[WaltersHair]

Why is it necessary to give us 'Crazy Carrie' every. single. season?

Did not like. At all.

 

 

[Boundary]

That was an awful episode.

 

So, for once Saul is in jeopardy and his successor has come to Pakistan to help his release, with direct instructions from the President, and Gansa & Co. undermine all that by pulling "Carrie off her meds" out of the hat. Don't they know Saul is more intriguing? Don't they know their show at all?

Edited November 10, 2014 by Boundary

[rlc]

I think they give us crazy Carrie every season because she is the main character, and she has severe mental issues. I'm still sorting out my feelings about the episode, but I do think it is interesting that they are using her mental illness against her by switching out her drugs. She rarely acknowledges the severity of her problems, and in the past when she has ditched her meds it has been because she seems to think they dull her abilities. It was interesting to see her actively seeking her meds to help her and doubting her sanity.

[HollaMcDollar]

Why is it necessary to give us 'Crazy Carrie' every. single. season?

Did not like. At all.

B/c Gansa hasn't figured out that Danes is a one season on wonder

[Tooch]

I laughed out loud when all 100 pounds of Carrie kicked Quinn's ass. C'mon. Or was that a hallucination like the gun?

Haaaaaaated it. While I also assume that Carrie isn't so much off her meds as being gaslit with some other med making her even more nuts, it doesn't really matter--it's just more trembling chin bullshit with Carrie's mental state taking us away from the far more compelling story of Saul, whose scenes discussing terrorism/Islam with Aayans uncle whose name I can't even remember were actually really interesting.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Tooch

[shapeshifter]

I was really hoping the capsules didn't flush completely and she would see them when she went to use the toilet--at least the second time she took the fake pills.

"Who is Brody?" Seriously? Doesn't everyone know? I would think in the show's reality, his name would be a household word in both the Middle East and the U.S.

Saul being chained a few feet away from Haqqani having noisy reunion sex with his wife has to be torture.

At least she didn't really shoot the car driver and passenger. Something like that really happened with a PTSD soldier having a dissociative moment a few years ago.

Edited November 10, 2014 by shapeshifter

[KittyS]

I'm so sick of looking at Carrie's ugly, over-the-top, bulging eyes, drooling, crazy face. You know what would be good TV? Watching a sane Carrie do her job well without having sex with all her assets or pissing off her superiors. The subject matter is fascinating on its own without injecting insanity (drug induced or otherwise) into every single season. If I ever get sucked into an international crisis, please send Quinn, not Carrie, to save me. So done with this crap show. (Until next week, anyway.)

[Cramps]

I thought it was a fascinating episode. To see Saul with the world's number one terrorist was a really interesting premise. And while I was dreading having to watch Carrie go down the rabbit hole again, I believed it.

[Pallas]

Carrie took two of the tampered pills with her, so even if Plagiarist Phillips switches them back, she has evidence of being drugged.

 

It wasn't Peter in the hospital, any more than it was Brody at the ISI man's house.  In both instances, though, the man's dialogue -- his side of the conversation -- seems to have been real.   I liked that.    

[Hava]

I was so ready to kick my TV in if Brody was really undead. 

[Artsda]

I hate Carrie off her meds stories. 

I hate Carrie off her meds stories. 

[thefreeair]

I have nothing of value to add beyond the purely shallow observation that the ISI guy is a beautiful, beautiful man.

 

Actually, wait. One more thing that bugs me about Carrie's mental breaks is that they're always happening in rooms full of men, so we get to have this fun imagery of the hysterical woman acting out around a bunch of rational dudes. Ugh.

[Morbs]

The ISI woman is beautiful too.  At least we have good looking terrorists thing time around!

Edited November 10, 2014 by Morbs

[Pallas]

One more thing that bugs me about Carrie's mental breaks is that they're always happening in rooms full of men, so we get to have this fun imagery of the hysterical woman acting out around a bunch of rational dudes.

 

Well, rational dudes whose reason isn't going to get the job done, and who are going to end up watching Carrie take the lead.  And Peter.  And Saul.  

 

The "bright young man" is indeed remarkably beautiful.  Narcissus with epaulets.  Damien Lewis did a great job of subtly remaining in character as not-Brody, while also killing me with his sweet, artless delivery of the line, "Not me!"  

 

At least we have good looking terrorists thing time around!

 

Don't we usually?  The journalist -- the rich-man's-Anapour -- and Nazir were no eyesores...

Edited November 10, 2014 by Pallas

[Hava]

Maybe this will be explained next week, but the last scene confused me. ISI man said, "Who's Brody?" at the end, so that should mean he wasn't playing along and acting like he was Brody. But, then, some of other things he said during the conversation don't make sense if that's the case. I wonder if she hallucinated parts of the conversation. 

[dwmarch]

Wow, way to fake me out, Homeland. I've always had this theory that Brody was hung by a harness and his death was faked so the Iranians could put him to some other nefarious purpose. But bringing him back as half-hallucination, half-crafty-ISI-bastard was brilliant.

 

Carrie wasn't just off her meds. Right at the beginning we see someone putting white powder into the pill casings that match the ones that keep her sane. I wish Carrie had known to seek some help but I have seen a person go manic before and when they do, they do not think anything is wrong (with them).

 

I like Haqqani. He's charismatic, tough, willing to get his hands dirty, intolerant of insubordination and kind to his prisoners. He's not the best debater though. Saul says "You killed a bunch of your family members for no readily apparent reason!" Haqqani comes back with "Well, Christians suck too!"

 

I also appreciated that they didn't just rustle up a team of Navy SEALS at a moment's notice to go rescue Saul. "That shit takes months to plan!" is valid and something I wasn't expecting to see on a series that has only a few hours left to wrap this plot up.

 

"We'll pull your aid package!" is a pretty dickless threat coming from the head of the CIA. How about "I'll have every single one of you assassinated" instead?

[parandroid]

"We'll pull your aid package!" is a pretty dickless threat coming from the head of the CIA. How about "I'll have every single one of you assassinated" instead?

That seems like exactly the right threat to make. The former is within the control of the US, and the latter is laughably not. Short of declaring war on Pakistan (which requires the Senate to concur) there isn't a way to deliver on that threat, and every one in the room would know it.

[dwmarch]

That seems like exactly the right threat to make. The former is within the control of the US, and the latter is laughably not. Short of declaring war on Pakistan (which requires the Senate to concur) there isn't a way to deliver on that threat, and every one in the room would know it.

 

Well, in real life certainly. But this is the show that had the CIA assassinating six people in a bunch of different places all inside of a few minutes not that long ago. I think it would have been more appropriate for Lockhart to threaten violence while the ambassador threatens economic consequences.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I love that even though Saul is being held hostage, he didn't hesitate to disagree with Haqqani.

[Mama No Life]

Loved Saul.  Found it interesting that Haquanni (sp?) was hospitable, almost treating him as a guest, when he was at his home but yet slammed him in a dungeon when they arrived at his camp.  This week, and next week's judging by the previews, makes it look like Carrie was right....they should have taken the shot.  Saul is not happy to be offered up.  And what if they start torturing him? He may not be the current director but I'm sure he has intel they could use. If nothing else, it would humiliate the US if the world knew they let their former director be taken.

 

I felt bad for Carrie this ep.  She was trying to do the right thing when she realized she was off, but it made it worse. I liked how the ISI officer put the doubt in her head by asking her if she always 'talks this fast'?  You could literally see the alarm bells.    The writing for this show is nutso, but you can't deny the actors bring it every time.

 

Haquanni doesn't look very sick...I'm ready to find out what's wrong with him.

[penelope79]

I hope we won't see sick!Carrie again anytime soon.

That said, I have the impression that the ISI woman, Tasneem (sp?), has a different agenda which is not the ISI's one. Her agenda includes: forcing Dennis to do the dirty job at the Embassy, arranging the kidnapping of Saul and substituting Carrie's meds. That's something I started to notice in the episode where they kidnapped Saul, as she and the "bright" (and, I agree, quite handsome) high rank agent just talked about the fact that Saul was leaving Pakistan and she commented the news by saying something like: "Good riddance!".

This time, the fact that all the ISI chiefs looked so genuinly offended by Lockhart's accusations (while Carrie noticed Tasneem sending a text from her phone, which is something I don't think she would do at a vital meeting unless it was important), and that the cameras at the airport did not conveniently worked, hiding that Ghazi was indeed there, convinced me even more.

Of course, they're all spies, therefore they could all be lying, but I still think something is off. Does anybody else feel the same?

[Haleth]

I hope Dennis gets what he deserves.

[shelley1234]

I laughed out loud when all 100 pounds of Carrie kicked Quinn's ass. C'mon. Or was that a hallucination like the gun?.

  

Maybe this will be explained next week, but the last scene confused me. ISI man said, "Who's Brody?" at the end, so that should mean he wasn't playing along and acting like he was Brody. But, then, some of other things he said during the conversation don't make sense if that's the case. I wonder if she hallucinated parts of the conversation.

Both were hallucinations. Quinn was in the war room later discussing whether he thought Haqqani and Saul were on the move and didn't seem at all phased that Carrie just went all CrazyPants on him.

[Mia Nina]

Ah I did miss Brody/DL, was nice seeing him even though it was pretty awful for Carrie considering the context.

 

I liked this episode.

[Cramps]

I don't think the good looking agent that Carrie thought was Brodie is in on what the female agent has been pulling. I think he had his people following Carrie because of who she is.

[shelley1234]

I don't think the good looking agent that Carrie thought was Brodie is in on what the female agent has been pulling. I think he had his people following Carrie because of who she is.

 

Oh no, he's totally in on it.  

[NorthstarATL]

I thought Aasar's question about Carrie talking so fast was a giveaway that he knew what was up with the meds. Now, maybe he wouldn't have known that Carrie is awlays like that, but he at least seemed to want to plant the seed of suspicion amongst those present that she was not in fulll control of her faculties, and that any allegations regarding his connection with Saul's kidnapping were to be dismissed for that reason.

 And, while I don't particularly like the storyline, it's not really a retread of Carrie's issues with her medication or her illness as it is about her being drugged/poisoned. The fact that she has the condition hse has gave the bad guys an easier way to drug her than they might have had otherwise, and her history makes it more difficult to prove. (It's one of the problems I've always had with the series. Don't people in these positions go through some sort of screening, and doesn't a certain amount of drug dependency maybe keep one from, say, a foreign posting where access might not always be as free as it is in the States?)

[Pallas]

I agree with penelope and Cramps that Tasneem is running an operation of her own: she may be the ISI's own Carrie, perhaps.  In the show's context within the world, it would make sense not to cast the whole of official Pakistan as the unambiguous antagonist; within the show itself, it would mean that Saul got something right: he was partial to the ISI man, Khan.

 

Maybe this will be explained next week, but the last scene confused me. ISI man said, "Who's Brody?" at the end, so that should mean he wasn't playing along and acting like he was Brody. But, then, some of other things he said during the conversation don't make sense if that's the case.

 

Re-watching the scene while knowing that "Brody" is Khan, his dialogue works as genuine.  He keeps trying to calm Carrie down, telling her she's had a bad day, telling her she sounds confused, questioning who she thinks is dead, assuring her that he is real and she is safe.  

 

I think Khan asks, "Who's Brody?" not because he doesn't recognize the name of the American Marine who was rescued from capture by Al-Queda after eight years, got elected to Congress, was accused of blowing up Langley, defected to Iran and then was executed there for assassinating the foreign minister...but to see what she will say.  Only a handful of people would have reason to know about Carrie's affair with Brody, let alone her commitment to him.   Even her defending Brody in the televised Congressional hearing could easily be dismissed -- along with Saul's testimony about her mental state -- as disinformation (as it was, in large part).  

[Cramps]

I think he said "Who's Brody" more to make a powerful ending to the episode than as a significant plot point. While the world would know who Brody was, even spies wouldn't necessarily know of her romantic relationship with him, so her just repeating one name over and over wouldn't necessarily immediately signify to him that it was THAT Brody.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Cramps

[EtheltoTillie]

Why would the Americans argue amongst themselves in that conference room after the Pakistanis left?  Wouldn't the room be bugged?  Or wouldn't they at least be wary of that?  I don't think they were actually trying to plant that conversation.

 

I am actually liking this season, but I have to suspend disbelief quite a bit, as there are some logistical problems like the above that seem that they should lead to more failures/problems. 

Edited November 10, 2014 by GussieK

[Bcharmer]

Peter, Saul and Carrie...  sounds like the name of a trio from the great folk scare of the 60s. That's a hallucination I'd like to see... them doing a rendition of Puff the Magic Dragon. :)

 

Still processing last night's episode. Suffering from jet lag, so I fell asleep before the end. Hate it when that happens.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Bcharmer

[Boundary]

... it would mean that Saul got something right: he was partial to the ISI man, Khan.

 

I think Khan is a stand up guy but not as suspicious of his own people as Carrie was. The way he put up with Carrie's questioning tone and the fact of actually availing himself like that proved that Saul was right. Now all Carrie and Quinn need to do is cast credible suspicion on Tasleem, then I think Khan can follow it up.

[Constantinople]

Tasneem & Dennis must die for subjecting us to Brody, yet again.

Saul, didn't your parents teach you that it's rude to discuss politics and religion, at least with people you barely know?

I'm not sure, but I think the ISI guy (Aasar?) may not be part of the clique in the ISI that's collaborating with Haqqani. He had a scene with Tasneem a few episodes ago where they discussed Saul, and she seemed less than forthcoming, making some sort of generic, bland comment about how she wanted Saul out of the country. Given that she was planning to kidnap Saul, I would have thought she'd say something different to Aasar if he were in on it.

I did enjoy Lockhart's cut the BS with Minister Bunny & Co. I don't think Lockhart should have blindsided the ambassador, but I also wonder how valuable the ambassador's relationships are - and Saul's with Bunny, for that matter -- if it just results in stonewalling.

I'm also wondering if Haqqani needs to worry about the ISI taking him out to cover their tracks.

I still don't understand how Dennis has a key to Carrie's room. I thought Tasneem gave him Sandy's key, but I would have thought they'd change the locks or something when the station chief changes.

[Blakeston]

Only a handful of people would have reason to know about Carrie's affair with Brody, let alone her commitment to him.   Even her defending Brody in the televised Congressional hearing could easily be dismissed -- along with Saul's testimony about her mental state -- as disinformation (as it was, in large part).  

 

I've always had the impression that while Saul's testimony was televised, Carrie's was not.

[Bcharmer]

Why do TV characters swallow pills, capsules, without drinking water? Does anyone do that in real life, when there is a faucet right in front of you? 

[Primetimer]

Carrie goes through the looking glass in one of the dumbest and most overwrought Homelands ever, and Sarah D. Bunting does not say that lightly.

Read the story

[scrb]

So the ISI helps the number one terrorist abduct the former director of the CIA.

 

Now they drug the CIA station chief and abducts her as well?

 

Like they noted, Pakistan has $2 billion reasons not to me messing with the US but in this reality, Muslim nation-states have no fear of overtly messing with the US, instead of using proxy terrorist groups, where they can plausibly deny involvement.

[Morbs]

I'll take medicine without water sometimes.  What I always notice is that TV characters throw back their head dramatically when taking a pill. Maybe I'm just an expert pill popper though and should look for a job in the drug mule industry.

 

Vulture gave the episode a good write up; I just don't get it.  As soon as I saw Brody I thought of the Giles/Jenny scene from Buffy Season 2 when it was really Drusilla.  I was just more annoyed than surprised or happy to see him, but then again, I wanted him dead in Season 1.

 

Carrie's testimony was closed, they mentioned needing to protect her identity because she had active assets.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Morbs

[LoveLeigh]

This episode was a joke. Carrie was not actually "off" her meds but had taken the replacement meds, which caused hallucinations. Also, Saul dining and breaking bread and having a polite political conversation with the terrorist in which the terrorist states his justifications? Is this show written by Michael Moore? 

 

eta: And the terrorist has his son apologize to Saul? Give me a break.

 

This is from last year, but an interesting perspective: 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/16/homeland-worst-lies-us-power-foreign-policy

Edited November 10, 2014 by DakotaLavender

[Sofie Fatale]

... Also, Saul dining and breaking bread and having a polite political conversation with the terrorist in which the terrorist states his justifications? Is this show written by Michael Moore? 

 

eta: And the terrorist has his son apologize to Saul? Give me a break.

 

This is from last year, but an interesting perspective: 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/16/homeland-worst-lies-us-power-foreign-policy

Well, he wants to take extra good care of his human shield lol. Besides having a premium bargaining chip, driving in the sunshine, reunion sex with your wife and seeing your kids again are great motivators.