S04.E05: Breaking Glass

[brisbydog]

I think it might be time for me to quit this show. I've been hanging on for Rumple but it's not enough anymore, especially since the writers are determined to write him as a power mad magic addict which is boring (I hated Dark Willow too). I hate Hook and Captain Swan, I've lost all respect for Emma, Regina fills me with burning anger, I want to slap Henry, Belle is too dumb to live, and although I love Snow and Will that can't be enough to keep me watching this drek. Sad. Two years ago this was my favourite thing on the air.

[Dani-Ellie]

This is my view on it: you can't just swan back into someone's life (excuse the pun :p) after you've hurt them, no matter how much you apologize or say that it wasn't intentional.

 

I agree with that. What I don't agree with is the hypocrisy of Regina whining about how Emma ruined her life while the very reason Emma was here for us to get the story between her and Lily at all was because Regina cast the Dark Curse and was going to kill Emma's little baby self. So, Regina did her own share of life-ruining here and it would have been nice to see that addressed. If the show had allowed Emma to holler something similar back at Regina rather than just follow her around with her tail between her legs, I would feel much, much better about the episode.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[ShadowFacts]

 

Regina is in mourning because she thinks no matter what she does, she'll lose Robin anyway because she didn't take action that first night.  That's what she really wants re-written, she wants to go into that tavern and change the past.

 

That would be at odds with what she said in Neverland under the truth-telling tree or whatever it was, that she has no regrets because everything she did led up to her getting Henry.  If she rewrites that tavern/Robin chapter, presumably there's no Henry.  

 

 

I think it might be time for me to quit this show. I've been hanging on for Rumple but it's not enough anymore, especially since the writers are determined to write him as a power mad magic addict which is boring (I hated Dark Willow too). I hate Hook and Captain Swan, I've lost all respect for Emma, Regina fills me with burning anger, I want to slap Henry, Belle is too dumb to live, and although I love Snow and Will that can't be enough to keep me watching this drek. Sad. Two years ago this was my favourite thing on the air.

 

I am pretty much in the same boat.  At the end of last season I could see that Emma was taking the Snow, Jr. route with regard to apologies to Regina, but I didn't think it would go this far.  I feel like I might be insulting myself if I allow myself to watch any more of this totally unwarranted character assassination of Emma.  

[AV8n]

This is turning out to be a pretty crappy Golden Girls prequel, as we all know one day Emma and Regina will end up living together in Boca Raton.  They will spend their days complaining that Henry never calls, and constantly threaten Snow with the curse of Shady Pines.  Thank you for being a friend, indeed.

 

Emma made a huge mistake dissing Lily, as her presence apparently had a positive effect on Emma's thievery skills.  She went from getting caught with a box of Pop Tarts to being able to sneak a stolen camcorder into the foster home in the span of what was probably just a few hours.  But seriously, there is surely more to Lily than an odd birthmark.  I am sure we will see her again.

[brisbydog]

I think it would be funny if Robin was never Regina's true love, and all the Merry Men had the same tattoo, and her true love was actually Alan O'Dale or some minor Robin follower that we have not met yet or she had executed

[KAOS Agent]

I'm fairly certain that the parallel was meant to be that Emma = Lily. Emma did something "wrong" that hurt her friend and now she's begging for forgiveness. Emma believes that once you screw someone over, you don't get a second chance (which is absolutely ridiclous given the number of references in the episode to just how often Regina has screwed people over and been given another chance). So here we have her as Lily hoping that she can repair what her mistake broke. It's a very poorly done parallel because Emma/Regina's relationship in no way equates to the Emma/Lily relationship of the past.

Emma had never screwed Lily over, certainly never tried to kill her. All she'd done was be a friend to her. So when Regina is equated to Young!Emma in this scenario, I just want to hurl. The only message I got out of this is that abusive bullies are right and we should never give up on them no matter how terribly they treat us. Regina literally destroyed Emma's childhood. The fact that it was Emma begging for Regina's friendship showed just how emotionally damaged Emma is because no sane person would want to hang out with someone as abusive as Regina. "I'm glad you don't want to kill me" isn't funny. It isn't sweet because it acknowledges that it's something her "friend" might decide to do should Emma "screw up" again.

[MedievalGirl]

I felt bad for Sydney. It seemed like he had completely replaced his crush on Regina with one on The Snow Queen but she cut him loose. 

[FabulousTater]

This is my view on it: you can't just swan back into someone's life (excuse the pun :p) after you've hurt them, no matter how much you apologize or say that it wasn't intentional. Emma needs to take her guilt and let Regina be angry because she has every right to be.

That's all nice and fluffy, but let's not forget that what Regina is angry at Emma for is that Emma didn't leave a woman in Regina's dungeon for Regina to murder the next morning. Right, like being angry at someone who you feel has slighted you is one thing, but when that "slight" is that they prevented you from murdering someone, that's CRAZY. That's the mindset of a homicidal lunatic. Like, if there are serial killers in prison that are angry at the cops that stopped their next kill, I think we'd all agree that makes the serial killers positively nuts. But the writers of this show are asking us to accept that even though Regina (a known mass murderer) has the same mentality as an angry serial killer, Regina's behavior is totally acceptable, understandable, justified and she's not at all off her rocker, in desperate need of medication, and locked up in a looney bin for the criminally insane CRAZY!

 

This calls back to Regina letting Henry and Emma escape last December and gifting them with memories of a fake life.

Minor nitpick, but Regina didn't "let" Henry and Emma escape. The condition of recasting the curse was that Henry would be left behind and without any memories of Storybrooke, in other words, his whole life would be a blank slate. Emma chose to stay behind for Henry so he wouldn't be alone. Regina did give them "happy" memories, but let's be real, had it been just Emma who would've been forced to stay behind all alone would Regina have done the same? I'm inclined to think not. Regina gave them happy memories for Henry's sake. The only thing that Regina learned between the S1 pilot and the S3 mid-season finale was that she needed to stop hurting Henry as a means to hurt Emma. I'm not giving Regina points for giving Emma something that she was directly responsible of depriving Emma of her whole life -- happiness and a family.

Edited October 27, 2014 by FabulousTater

[AudienceofOne]

could have taken Emma saying "I thought that maybe we could be friends" if it was preceded by an angry "Stop acting like the world is falling apart because I saved a person's life. You dated Robin for 5 days tops - get over yourself

 

 

I would have settled for a "I'm sorry something I did caused you pain but I'm not sorry for saving somebody's life and you should be grateful you didn't end up murdering your True Love's wife". It even rhymes.

 

being angry at someone who you feel has slighted you is one thing, but when that "slight" is that they prevented you from murdering someone, that's CRAZY. That's the mindset of a homicidal lunatic.

 

Exactly. And to have her say that it's Emma's fault she has to save Marian now because Emma didn't let her murder her the first time around is just completely deranged.

Edited October 27, 2014 by AudienceofOne

[kili]

Emma made a huge mistake dissing Lily, as her presence apparently had a positive effect on Emma's thievery skills.

 

I think that this wasn't Lily's first time at the rodeo. She must run away a lot. She had much more developed street kid skills than Emma. And the fact that her father even thought to search for her in the summer homes by the lake makes me think that she has been found there before. Either that or it was her family's summer house they broke into.

 

We see from present day Emma, that she later regretted not keeping in touch with Lily, probably because even with her betrayal, it was a bright spot in an otherwise trouble childhood.

 

It seems that they were together for only a few hours. I found Lily to be a little creepy and clingy wanting to be BFF after having spent an afternoon together. Teenage girls can form quite quick friendships, though, and lose them just as fast. That's why Emma cutting off LIly for lying didn't resonate all that hard with me - they didn't even really know each other and had just shared a fun afternoon together bonding over lies. Even if Emma hadn't refused to take her address, odds are the relationship would have ended after a few letters anyway - certainly once Emma became homeless and hanging around Neal. I guess they were going for friends at first site, but Lily was playing a part until she got caught.

[Emma]

Nope. Still not over the Emma-Regina crap.

 

For the sake of my health, I'm just going to ignore their future scenes. No matter what they show it didn't happen. It simply doesn't exist in my book anymore.

[Dirtybubble]

Mary Margaret & David = zzzzzzzzzzzz.......I like them much better when they are being bad asses but dang this baby business is just a bore.

 

Will Scarlett = zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......why is he here?  What is the point of having him around?  What did he do in the first place, I don't remember.  Good lawd this side stories just so dang dull!

 

Oh and an episode with no Rumple = BOO!  =(  I'm sorry, either give these characters something interesting to do or just don't have them in there at all.

[Rumsy4]

It's funny, I didn't even realize this was a Rumple-free episode. I was too busy raging about Regina and Emma. Belle gets barely a one minute shot each episode. My bayby!!

[Amerilla]

I think it might be time for me to quit this show. I've been hanging on for Rumple but it's not enough anymore, especially since the writers are determined to write him as a power mad magic addict which is boring (I hated Dark Willow too). I hate Hook and Captain Swan, I've lost all respect for Emma, Regina fills me with burning anger, I want to slap Henry, Belle is too dumb to live, and although I love Snow and Will that can't be enough to keep me watching this drek. Sad. Two years ago this was my favourite thing on the air.

 

You are not alone, brisbydog.

 

There are other examples from this (and other episodes), but the whole "Hook taking Henry sailing" thing really shows how little attention they're paying to the details anymore. It's a simple bit of exposition to explain why Hook and Henry aren't doing their usual human cling-wrap routine with Emma and Regina during the bulk of the episode. No biggie, right?

 

But then comes the "huh?" Hook has no ship. He has no job. He has no perceivable source of income. He has no known friends, at least not of the boat-owning variety. So is he borrowing a boat? Is he "borrowing" a boat? Did Emma rent them a boat? What kind? Sailboat? Clearly an again one-handed pirate couldn't really do a rowboat, and a man from the fairytale world shouldn't be able to deal with an outboard motor, correct? Does Hook know what a life jacket is? After three centuries with a ship made of "enchanted" wood, does he have the skill set for piloting a small, modern fiberglass sailboat? 

 

And that's just "Questions That May Never Be Answered" level stuff. There's plenty of current-storyline stuff as well. Hook and Henry have spent no discernable time together  and have barely mentioned each other's existence since mid-S3b. Just last episode - basically, a day or two ago in the show's timeline - Henry was lukewarm on Hook 'n Emma sittin' in a tree...so does he have any feelings about being casually shuffled off with Hook as the latest in a long string of off-screen babysitters? Whatever will they talk about? The last time they almost got on a boat together, when Hook was going to ship him off to the Big Apple with Smee, without Emma's knowledge? Is Hook going to tell the touching tale of how Henry's father and he once sailed together, until young Bae got mouthy and Hook instantly handed him over to Pan and the psycho Lost Boys? So, what have you been up to lately, Henry? Well, I decided to go undercover in Grandpa Dark One's little shop of horrors to see if I can figure out how to rewrite Mom #1's happy ending so she and Robin Hood can get it on in peace. What have you been up to these days, Killian? Well, I decided that I couldn't properly pleasure your mother without both hands, so I blackmailed the Dark One and...ok, let's just say it didn't go so well.  Henry isn't even living with Emma right now, so what exactly is the division of custody between Emma and Regina - if Emma's cool with having Hook take Henry out for a sail, but Regina isn't, how does that get worked out?

 

If the main story is compelling enough, a show can slide over a lot of the details. To a lesser extent, a weak story can be papered over if there's a lot of attention to detail, to building characters you want to spend time with. But Once is no longer telling particularly compelling stories, and they aren't paying attention to the details, either. They're just flogging along to the next Big Plot Point. So we have thowaway lines that illustrate how little they actually tell us about these peole and their lives, unusually fugly costuming, prop photos that look like they were taken by your Friendly Neighborhood Stalker, and characters who are acting so out of character that you can barely recognize them, while others are acting so grimly, gratingly, cartoonishly in-character that you just want to strangle them.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Amerilla

[iMonrey]

This show has a real problem on its hands, because clearly they won't let go of Regina since they seem to feel she's too important a character. But she has long passed the mile marker for redemption; she could spend the rest of her life doing nothing but good deeds but she should still be in jail for all the people she's killed. Even if we discount everything she ever did in the Enchanted Forest, she also killed Graham, right here in Storybrooke. 

 

That's why the Snow Queen feels like an unnecessary intrusion to me. We don't need her, we don't need the Wicket Witch of the West, we don't need Pan. Regina is still the main villain on this show and the townspeople should spend less time trying to coddle her, and more time trying to figure out a way to nullify her powers and lock her up, or send her to another realm where she can't harm anyone else. They continue to destroy the integrity of characters like Emma and Henry every time they try to prop Regina.

 

It goes without saying that if Emma hadn't saved Marian's life, Regina would be involved with a man whose wife she murdered. Does she really think that would have turned into a happy ending for her? Things like that have a way of coming out, and at best they would have been living a lie. Somebody needs to point that out to her.

 

This show is making less and less sense as it goes along because they are too married to their formula. It feels like every week they start by coming up with some new flashback and most of their energy is devoted to that. The rest of the episode is clumsily crafted around trying to tie present day happenings into the flashback, which is why this business with Regina and Emma was especially painful. It was a contrived and unconvincing parallel. 

 

Other things that don't make sense: we now know that Anna did in fact return to Arendelle after traveling to the Enchanted Forest. So since Elsa cannot remember how she wound up in the urn, what possible reason does she have to think Anna is anywhere other than back in Arendelle where she belongs?

 

Regina and Emma team up to use their combined powers to defeat some giant monster soldier the Snow Queen has created, yet when the Snow Queen herself shows up they just stand there like a couple of dummies until Elsa shows up to save them. 

[kili]

He has no known friends, at least not of the boat-owning variety. So is he borrowing a boat?

 

Grumpy has a boat and Hook has been shown to be drinking with the dwarfs. [Grumpy hid the candles on his boat in S1. He also tried to sell the boat to Gold, but Gold didn't want to buy it if it meant helping the nuns who he hated]

 

What kind? Sailboat?

 

Didn't Hook specifically say that he was taking Henry sailing?

 

After three centuries with a ship made of "enchanted" wood, does he have the skill set for piloting a small, modern fiberglass sailboat?

 

Sailing is pretty fundamental. If he can figure out how to work a winch, it would be a lot simpler than sailing the Jolly. The Jolly might be made out of enchanted wood, but that doesn't help you set the sails. If it was a dinky boat like Grumpy's, it probably wouldn't even have the winches.  If Hook is teaching Henry how to sail, it is probably a small boat because those are genearlly the easiest to learn the concepts - one or two sails, a couple of lines and a rudder.

 

IDK It seemed like a good way to explain why Hook and Henry were off-screen while their Mom's wandered around the woods. Henry did seem to like spending time with Hook three days earlier (rather than spending it with his boring Grandparents), so it was almost a nice piece of continuity.

[dr pepper]

When did Storybrook get a 200 foot chasm?

[MedievalGirl]

Regina and Emma team up to use their combined powers to defeat some giant monster soldier the Snow Queen has created, yet when the Snow Queen herself shows up they just stand there like a couple of dummies until Elsa shows up to save them. 

The Snow Queen was pinching their throats like Darth Vader. If they were dummies it was because they couldn't breath. 

[Dani-Ellie]

When did Storybrook get a 200 foot chasm?

 

The same place they got the suspension bridge over the gorge?

 

(Although, if that was the same gorge, I'm willing to give them a point for that neat bit of continuity!)

Edited October 27, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[Crimson Belle]

Maybe Emma, or one of her many friends and admirers borrowed or paid for the boat rental.

[Curio]

Did Emma rent them a boat? What kind? Sailboat? Clearly an again one-handed pirate couldn't really do a rowboat, and a man from the fairytale world shouldn't be able to deal with an outboard motor, correct? Does Hook know what a life jacket is? After three centuries with a ship made of "enchanted" wood, does he have the skill set for piloting a small, modern fiberglass sailboat?

 

While I have no idea if they borrowed or "borrowed" the sailboat (I'm assuming it's a sailboat because Hook specifically mentioned sailing and not boating), there's actual in-show canon proof that Hook knows how to operate our modern boats. When he took Henry to that one beach to talk about Neal, the boat sitting on the water definitely looks like it has a motor, so if he knew how to operate that, I'm fairly confident he could learn how to use a modern sailboat and understand the concept of a life vest, too.

 

Hook and Henry have spent no discernable time together and have barely mentioned each other's existence since mid-S3b. Just last episode - basically, a day or two ago in the show's timeline - Henry was lukewarm on Hook 'n Emma sittin' in a tree

Henry's comment last episode made their sailing date a bit of an awkward transition this episode, but Henry did tell Hook the first time they went out on the water that he enjoyed it and wanted to do it again with him.

 

Is Hook going to tell the touching tale of how Henry's father and he once sailed together, until young Bae got mouthy and Hook instantly handed him over to Pan and the psycho Lost Boys?

Meh, I feel like there's a lot of shady stuff which goes on in the adult-Storybrookers lives that Henry probably doesn't want to know about. Like, I doubt he wants to hear about Rumple contemplating killing him, Regina mind-wiping his memories, or that Snow and Charming weren't actually taking a "nap" that one time he walked in on them...

[Rumsy4]

Why isn't Henry in school??? 

[kili]

When did Storybrook get a 200 foot chasm?

 

Last season, Regina and Emma were practicing magic over a deep chasm. The canyons, chasms and cliffs are reall geographical features around Vancouver, so it's not unreasonable the same kind of features could be in Storybrooke. BTW I'm pretty sure that was Lynn Canyon. They do a fair bit of filming in that area.

Edited October 27, 2014 by kili

[Mari]

Henry's comment last episode made their sailing date a bit of an awkward transition this episode, but Henry did tell Hook the first time they went out on the water that he enjoyed it and wanted to do it again with him.

Yeah, I side-eyed last week's comment about not being good with Hook and Emma dating simply because he then promptly went off to cheerlead psychoMom's married boyfriend's wife's curse.

 

But it's not that hard to believe that he generally enjoys Hooks company and the activities like sailing, but doesn't necessarily think Hook is good enough for Emma, or possibly just doesn't want to share Emma with someone else.

[ImogenLeFay]

Sometimes I don't know why I bother with this show - and then they throw in that lovely Captain Swan scene at the end. Not that it was enough to drown out the awfulness of the episode, but at least it ended on a nicer note.

 

Well, I did like the flashbacks, although they were a bit predictable. And I thought the Snowing plot was sweet. I liked Elsa's part, although she was quite naive going after "Anna", and Elizabeth Mitchell continues to be awesome. Oh, and Sidney. Absolutely loved everything Sidney.

 

But I just can't with Regina. I feel like a broken record about it, but she just keeps getting more and more awful. Sure, she gets points for working really hard on saving Marian. I'm saying that without irony, that's the good if hard thing to do and credit where credit is due. But then she turns around and says so many awul things that it cancels out those points at least ten times.

Emma ruined her life? Because she lost a relationship. Even ignoring the details of that, a break up does not equal a ruined life. Is she taking pointers from Bella Swan now? And the whole Marian situation is Emma's fault? This is just so ridiculous. And her blow-up at Sidney - "How dare you betray me, right after I imprisoned you for... well, forever really, and forgetting you there, only to free you, only to imprison you yet again.... HOW DARE YOU, TRAITOR?" Regina thinks self-awareness is some kind of disease, doesn't she?

 

And I hate how Emma is groveling to her. Her and Regina's situation aren't similar, Regina could never understand her - Regina doesn't understand anybody, not even herself. And more importantly, she doesn't even bother to try and understand other people. It's like she's a black hole and everybody coming close to her is dragged into her aura of suck.

 

I'll go back and watch the chainsaw-to-appletree-scene again. That was awesome, I want that Emma back.

[Bosman]

Who on earth is dressing the women on this show?? Elsa and the Snow Queen have costumes from Party City. Regina and Mary Margaret looked like decidedly NOT hot messes in their ill-fitting frump clothes. Regina in particular needs to get out of her funk and start dressing like a drag queen again. And poor Ginnifer Goodwin really needs a new hair style. Or a wig. She looks like a chubby boy.

[queenbee]

Like a lot of people here, I am so over the Regina fanfiction. The way Regina's actions are being framed in the show is beyond a joke. There is not only a lack of self-awareness from Regina, but from the writers as well. I won't say anymore though as it has been said many times over much more eloquently by other posters. I also felt that while there was clearly a parallel meant to be drawn between Lily/Emma and Regina/Emma, I felt that the two situations were by no means comparable.

 

Also, how much of a joke is the Sherriff's office? Apparently break and enter will get you an indefinite visit in the lock-up, but kidnapping and false imprisonment (Rumple, Regina), murder (Rumple, Regina), and assault (Rumple, Hook) will allow you to roam free! (And I'm referring only to their SB crimes.)

[ElectricBoogaloo]

How come Dairy Queen can do all this extra stuff, like releasing mirror genies and "apparating"? Elsa has not been shown to have any of those abilities.

I think the main reason is that Elsa is similar to Emma in that they don't have as much training and practice with magic, hence they aren't as well versed in what they can do. Their emotions are still tied to their magic and they seem to be novices in terms of what they can do at will.

Elsa can do snow/ice stuff, especially when her emotions are heightened but if Frozen is canon, then she is self taught and hasn't had anyone teach her how to control her magic or help her explore the full range of her powers. Emma had had a little bit of training from Regina but until this season, her magic was mostly instinctual so she could produce something when she had to (like if someone was in danger) but she had problems producing magic on command when she was just practicing. I think that both Elsa and Emma could probably learn how to apparate and other things that Regina and DQ have done, but that they would need more guidance and practice. And since it's Storybrooke, land of perpetual drama, they haven't had time to sit around practicing and exploring the full extent of what they can do.

[kili]

Also, how much of a joke is the Sherriff's office? Apparently break and enter will get you an indefinite visit in the lock-up, but kidnapping and false imprisonment (Rumple, Regina), murder (Rumple, Regina), and assault (Rumple, Hook) will allow you to roam free!

 

Well, to be fair, Rumple was held in the cell for 5 seconds for assaulting Mo (so that Regina could torment Rumple), Regina was locked up for a couple of minutes for assorted crimes (until Rumple tried to kill her with a wraith), Hook was locked up in the hospital and frog-marched around town by Charming until he escaped. If Will is feeling bad about this, he's doing the same kind of time Grumpy did for drunkeness and some people have done time for crimes they did not commit (Emma for drunk driving and Mary Maragaret for murder).

 

Zelena was imprisoned for being obnoxious (and kidnapping Snowflake - she also kidnapped Hook and had him drowned, but nobody much cares about him).  She died in her cell, but it seemed she would have been there a while. Pan was to be stored for eternity in a box.

 

Nevertheless, breaking into the library seems to be considered a serious crime in Storybrooke. Better to just shoplift the stuff you want because Robin Hood seems to have kept the cross-bow that Little John stole.

Edited October 27, 2014 by kili

[margol29]

Could there be any thing to the Harry Potter and Lilly reference?

[stealinghome]

Emma needs to take her guilt and let Regina be angry because she has every right to be.

Why does Regina get to be angry, though? Because Emma saved someone's life? I have no sympathy for Regina being mad that her 48-hour romance was derailed because Emma prevented past!Regina from murdering a woman. I'm pretty sure Marian's life trumps a 48-hour "mass murderer and rapist--I mean, bold and audacious" fling.

 

So: Regina taking a day to cry and get it out of her system and be pissy at Emma? Yeah, okay. Until this episode, I actually quite liked how gracefully Regina was taking the break-up. Regina accusing Emma, several days later, of "ruining her life" because Robin--who Regina was with for literally maybe 48 hours--actively won't choose Regina over Marian? No. And that's not even counting Regina's awful treatment of Emma 100% of the time or her endangering both of them because she's a toddler throwing a tantrum. And that's not even counting the fact that everything Regina said to Emma (and Emma said to Regina) in this episode was bs clearly designed to prop Woegina. Emma has never had Regina's back? Emma should have been allowed to dish back that she's saved Regina, when she didn't have to, way more than vice versa. Emma saying Regina has taught her so much? That never happened! The show is literally making shit up to try to make Regina the victim and Emma the bad guy!

 

If other people were allowed to call Regina on her bs, I would say fine, okay, it's an intentional character choice to make Regina seem like a jerk. But the fact that Emma had to roll over last night and play dead? Tells me that the writers are 100% on Regina's side this episode. Which is so gross and disgusting I can't even.

[KAOS Agent]

To turn the topic from Regina/Emma, can we discuss th the part of Emma's conversation with Lily where she said she realized that she was too old for anyone to look at her as their child? Now this can go back to part of Emma's rejection of her parents since she had decided parents were not for her by the age of 15, but this goes as a rather sickening callback to Snow saying Emma's not a baby anymore and they can't have the kind of relationship she wanted because of it. I've given up on the show ever addressing Snow's confession, but Emma telling Lily that she had already given up at such a young age makes Snow's Echo Cave confession that much more awful for Emma. 

[RadioGirl27]

So, I finally saw this, and wow, it was BAD. I guess not only Hook lost a thousand brain cells when he jumped through that portal, so did Emma.

The two moments with Hook and Emma were really sweet, and Elizabeth Mitchell is amazing (even if I hate that her motivations are the same as Zelena's, change mother for family). But the rest went from meh (I expected something more from the flashback) to horrid (everything about Emma and Regina).

 

Thinking about Emma being angry at Lily and leaving her, I was thinking that maybe that was a bit of foreshadowing about Hook and his dirty secret. That Emma is going to remember this and react diferently this time, giving him a chance.

Edited October 27, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[MadyGirl1987]

Like a lot of people here, I am so over the Regina fanfiction. The way Regina's actions are being framed in the show is beyond a joke. There is not only a lack of self-awareness from Regina, but from the writers as well. I won't say anymore though as it has been said many times over much more eloquently by other posters. I also felt that while there was clearly a parallel meant to be drawn between Lily/Emma and Regina/Emma, I felt that the two situations were by no means comparable.

 

Also, how much of a joke is the Sherriff's office? Apparently break and enter will get you an indefinite visit in the lock-up, but kidnapping and false imprisonment (Rumple, Regina), murder (Rumple, Regina), and assault (Rumple, Hook) will allow you to roam free! (And I'm referring only to their SB crimes.)

Maybe they figure it would be pointless to imprison Rumple or Regina since they have magic and could easily escape or do stuff from the cell? Why bother if someone can poof away or curse and shoot fireballs at you from the cell?

 

Could there be any thing to the Harry Potter and Lilly reference?

I don't know. Maybe the unloved orphan part? I could see them connecting to that part of Harry's story. Maybe Lily had magic, and was born into a family of "muggles" like HP Lily and THAT is why she was given up, or abandoned, and felt isolated from her adoptive family. That wouldn't work, though, unless she came from another realm, since they have made a point of saying our world is one without magic.

[XtremeOne1]

Well next episode sounds good at least...

 

I like the Snow Queen and Elsa, both actresses are giving a lot to the roles and the Snow Queen is miles better than The Wicked Witch. She's actually an interesting villain(and yes, again Elizabeth Mitchell makes everything better).

 

I wonder who Lilly is...I mean, a birthmark in the shape of a star? That needs to mean something.

Edited October 27, 2014 by XtremeOne1

[YaddaYadda]

But they already have the story of the orphan who was adopted and didn't feel like he belonged with Henry.  Much as I really hate Henry, thinking about Henry, talking about Henry, his experience with Regina which everyone on the show chooses to forget including Henry probably helped Emma understand Lily a whole lot better. 

[AudienceofOne]

It may just be a coincidence but Lily was Harry Potter's mother. I don't know if that's important or not.

[buffynut]

What was the Harry Potter reference?

[InsertWordHere]

When did Storybrook get a 200 foot chasm?

In episode 1.10, 7:15 AM.

 

What was the Harry Potter reference?

Lily says she's always had her star mark and that it's like Harry Potter or something.

Edited October 27, 2014 by InsertWordHere

[HeimrArnadalr]

So Elsa decided to chase after someone who is both calling for help and moving away? And she didn't think it might be a trap?

 

The ice staircase, from its design to its method of creation, looked exactly like the one in the movie did. I'm quite impressed and I hope they keep this up. The ice warrior on the other hand looked rather weird and out-of-place.

 

The Dairy Queen has quite an impressive lair on the inside, but is she living in a cave or something? A giant ice palace within the boundaries of Storybrooke should be rather obvious. I realized she was barefoot in the final scene with Sidney. I guess the cold never bothered her either.

 

I know, but the dad tried so hard to find her, driving around looking for her, even hunting her with a flashlight at night. If it were neglect, he wouldn't have bothered so much, he would have let her run off.  If she had a secret about him she might tell, that would explain it.  Eh, why am I trying to apply real-world logic to this show?  It was so Emma could feel crappy and fight to be BFFs with Regina.

Don't forget, Lily also took his credit card and was running around buying things.

 

from the press release http://www.spoilertv.com/2014/10/once-upon-time-episode-405-breaking_77.html

 

Did I miss something? Was whatever scene with the King and Queen of Arendelle deleted? Or did someone mess up the press release for the episode?

Considering there weren't any flashbacks to Arendelle (or the Enchanted Forest) at all in this episode, I'm inclined to think the press release got messed up. Maybe they'll be in the next episode, which from the preview 

may take place partially before or during Frozen, considering Elsa's wearing her coronation dress in one shot.

 

Also, someone should tell them that the King and Queen of Arendelle actually have names (Agðar and Iðunn, respectively).

[buffynut]

In episode 1.10, 7:15 AM.

Lily says she's always had her star mark and that it's like Harry Potter or something.

Thanks.  I remember that now.

[Dani-Ellie]

But the fact that Emma had to roll over last night and play dead? Tells me that the writers are 100% on Regina's side this episode. Which is so gross and disgusting I can't even.

 

Word. Like, okay, Emma saving a woman's life (from Regina!) and accidentally messing up Regina's love life is something that requires an apology but Regina putting a price on a newborn Emma's head isn't? Come on now. If this show was really interested in a "hashing out of issues" episode, Emma would have aired some of her issues, too. This was just an excuse for Regina to be a mega-bitch, but it wasn't even fun mega-bitch like she's been in the past. It was mean and it was cruel and the fact that Emma just stood around and took it without speaking up in her own defense or even reminding Regina that "Hey, you've tried to kill me more than once and I'm willing to forgive you enough to try to be friends, so ..." was grody.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[Rumsy4]

Apparently it's an alleviation that Regina didn't bring up Emma's relationship with Hook and didn't threaten it. :-p

[stealinghome]

I've come to the conclusion that this episode, for me, is analogous to 'The Evil Queen' from S2. It's not a BAD episode, per se, but it utterly tanked the characterizations of both Regina and Emma.

[Camera One]

They really didn't.  Regina talked about Regina's issues with Emma, mostly without there being a shred of truth in what she was saying.  There was no talk at all of the mountainous issues that Emma should have with Regina.

 

That's the funny thing to me.  They talked the entire episode.  But I felt they talked about *nothing*.  It was basically Emma asking Regina questions, Regina saying "No, I don't want to answer you" and Emma following up with comments like "I learn magic soooooooo much better when you teach me."  The topic of Henry living at Regina's full time didn't even come up.  Neither did anything that happened in 3B.  We got zero insight into what Regina was going through since she wasn't sharing.  We got zero insight into what Emma was going through except for "I really want you to be my friend".  Uh why?  How did this revelation come about?  When did Emma last feel "rejected and misunderstood" and then go "You know who would know what this feels like?  Regina!"   Oh right, never.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Camera One

[Helena Dax]

I think Lily might be a character from another realm/universe too. She said the star was a scar, right? It has to mean something. It'd be awesome if Lily was princess Leia and that were the reason Emma came up with that name when she was in the Enchanted Forest with Hook. 

 

I can't even talk about Emma and Regina because it's insane. 

 

That last scene with Emma and Hook was very cute. They make such a great couple! And to me it was a surprise to see the Dairy Queen as Emma's foster mum, I wasn't expecting it. I'm really curious about DQ's plans.

 

I really like the Knave, he can stay.

[daxx]

The upside is that I can watch the scenes I care about in no time... Downside I only enjoyed a couple scenes.

[Camera One]

Emma had never screwed Lily over, certainly never tried to kill her. All she'd done was be a friend to her. So when Regina is equated to Young!Emma in this scenario, I just want to hurl. 

 

Now I'm imagining alternate flashbacks in this episode where Lily goes psycho and chases Young Emma with a butcher's knife.  If they wanted to make this messed up, why not go full out.

[Minneapple]

I'm an odd duck because I could care less about Emma & how she handles her relationship with Regina. I prefer some evil & I like Regina, murderous & unforgiving or not.

Well, the problem is that the writers would have us believe that Regina is *not* horrible and murderous, that Emma is a bad person who's done something awful to her and deserves to pay for it. I like Evil Regina too. I much preferred her to the current version, and I think Lana Parilla did a MUCH better job playing her evil and over the top rather than wishy-washy and fake-redeemed.

 

This is my view on it: you can't just swan back into someone's life (excuse the pun :p) after you've hurt them, no matter how much you apologize or say that it wasn't intentional. Emma needs to take her guilt and let Regina be angry because she has every right to be.

 

Regina has every right to be angry about...not murdering someone? Emma saving someone's life?

[regularlyleaded]

To turn the topic from Regina/Emma, can we discuss th the part of Emma's conversation with Lily where she said she realized that she was too old for anyone to look at her as their child? Now this can go back to part of Emma's rejection of her parents since she had decided parents were not for her by the age of 15, but this goes as a rather sickening callback to Snow saying Emma's not a baby anymore and they can't have the kind of relationship she wanted because of it. I've given up on the show ever addressing Snow's confession, but Emma telling Lily that she had already given up at such a young age makes Snow's Echo Cave confession that much more awful for Emma.

Yes! Great point, KAOS Agent. Taking my response to the Emma thread.