S04.E05: Breaking Glass

[CatMack]

 

Oh I forgot one other thing I disliked:

• Regina's pants.

 

 

Every time I saw those pants all I could think was "my god, you murdered Susan Lewis and stole her pants, didn't you".

[Mari]

Yeah, did Lana Parrilla piss off wardrobe or something? Put her back in her pantsuits, please!

 

What will Regina's next costume be? Mom jeans?

I hated the pants, too, but am looking on the bright side.

 

At least someone connected with the show is allowed to express disgust with Regina, even if it is only passive-aggressively through unattractive clothing.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Mari

[ShadowFacts]

I knew from spoilers that Emma was going to be trying to help Regina this season,  I knew from the fact that she was nonchalant about seeing Regina burn her mother at the stake that she was capable of being a Regina cheerleader, but this was beyond the pale.  Just such an atrocity.  I had said I would eat it up with a spoon if Sidney pulled one over on Regina, and he did and I did, but anything else tolerable about this episode was negated by that toxic waste with Emma and Regina.  I wonder if there is much table-flipping going on.  I think I'm too nauseated to expend the effort.

[wingster55]

Plus, I think Emma and Hook really do miss him or rather miss who he had the potential to be for them before turning his back on them.

 

When did Bae/Neal ever turn his back on Hook? 

[thuganomics85]

OK, I was totally cracking up when Sidney switched allegiance to The Snow Queen, and Giancarlo Esposito and Elizabeth Mitchell got a scene, because I was like "Yes!  The former Revolution actors are teaming up and rebelling against Storybrooke!  Just get Billy Burke and David Lyons in this joint, and it will be complete!"  Of course, it ends up that SQ doesn't even need Sidney, but the fact that she kept her word and let Sidney go, actually makes her better then Regina and Rumple, on many levels.  Go figure.  I don't know how I was suppose to react, but I loved that Sidney was through with that shit.  Go Sidney!  And SQ continues to own it.

 

So.... they really are going there, huh?  Regina is the victim and Emma was the one at fault?  This is just ridiculous.  I'm not even mad anymore about Regina herself: at this point, it's in character that Regina is immature brat, who would think that way.  But Emma actually feeling guilt and comparing it to what happen in the past, is such bullshit.  IMO, this is exactly what happen with Snow killing Cora last season: Snow and Emma are acting like they are the most horrible people on the planet for what they did, and they are not.  Just not.  But, I feel like this show wants me to think this way.  Come on!  And, as an extra moment, this episode had to make Elsa join on the "Pity Regina!" train, which is dumb on several levels (mainly that she doesn't even know the full story, I think.)  This whole thing is just the worst.  At times, I really wonder if the writers are just pandering or if they are truly fucked up in the head.

 

The Snow stuff continues to be a major filler.  Will at least made it entertaining, but, of course, Snow would get, well, snowed by Will, and come off like an idiot.  Nothing to see here, except hopefully, we'll be getting more Will...

 

The flashbacks were OK, I guess.  I did like seeing Nicole Munoz from Defiance as Lilith.  The reveal at the end that the SQ knew Emma in modern land, was interesting.

 

I kind of liked Hook finding that picture of Neal and his reaction, because I didn't think it was because it was just Emma's former bff, but because of the history he had with Young Neal/Baelfire.  There really was a lot of potential there, if the show didn't bungle that character so badly.

 

So, continues this bizarre season, where I'm more interested in the "Baddie of the season" and stuff involving a film I haven't even seen yet, vs. stories based on the original characters.  But the Regina Redemption Tour, Snow Filler, and last week's "Hook gets played by Rumple" shenanigans, are just killing me.

[YaddaYadda]

It might hurt when Emma finds out Hook is keeping something from her, and this will very likely be an unpopular opinion, but Emma has had the tendency to treat Hook like Regina treats her at times. I'm thinking that everything that happened tonight's episode is a bit of a set up.

Can't quote, tablet currently hates me!

[InsertWordHere]

So when Emma lifts Hook's hand over her shoulder you can see Graham's shoelace on her wrist and it reminded me that Emma spent this episode apologizing to Graham's unacknowledged murderer and then she went back and reminisced about her sad life while sitting in the spot where he died. This is so wrong.

[Mari]

So when Emma lifts Hook's hand over her shoulder you can see Graham's shoelace on her wrist and it reminded me that Emma spent this episode apologizing to Graham's unacknowledged murderer and then she went back and reminisced about her sad life while sitting in the spot where he died. This is so wrong.

Yup.  But--and the show presented it with absolutely no self-awareness or irony--Regina is the victim, because she didn't get to kill her boyfriend's wife.

[HoodlumSheep]

Glad to at least see that nice scene at the end with Captain Swan. Hook's interest in Emma's childhood was sweet and I enjoyed that little moment with the Polaroid of Bae/Neal. Regardless of how things turned out, he played an important part in each of their lives. And I'm giving Hook some leeway because the episode only covered a day, but he has some confessing to do soon.

I'm also giving Killy a free pass this week, mainly because this week was all about Emma (....and Regina, but that's not the point). I don't think him confessing would fit in well with the how the rest of the episode played out.

Also, all the awards go to Sidney for finally standing up to Regina!

So far I've liked Will's dynamic with everyone he's interacted with. Him and Snow were fun. Snow was adorable!

I thought the snow queen/Sidney/mirror scene was the best of the night. It was the most interesting thing that happened.

Regina...was classic Regina. I'll leave it at that.

Kind of a blah episode :( .

[MaiLuna]

If they wanted to parallel Emma/Regina with Emma/Lilly, they could've made Regina apologize to Emma for being so mean to her, and Emma this time accepting the apology. Wouldn't that have been a thousand times nicer?

[statsgirl]

Did anyone else get the feeling that Lily was being sexually abused?  She was so desperate to run away from  home.

 

Emma wanting to be Regina's friend was bad enough.  But Dairy Queen being one of Emma's foster mothers?  That's a whole leaf off a giant cliff into nothingness.  I don't think there's any way to make that plausible.

 

 

But for real, why does Emma wants to be Regina’s friend?

Other than Belle, it seems like Regina is the only person Emma can be friends with. Everyone else is too old, too young, or her mother.

Edited October 27, 2014 by statsgirl

[Mathius]

Did anyone else get the feeling that Lily was being sexually abused?  She was so desperate to run away from  home.

Er, no, not at all. From what she said, the problem was neglect, not sexual abuse.

[Rumsy4]

So, this episode was mostly filler. I too loved the fact that Sidney played Regina and got free. He was ready to serve the DQ, but she let him go. The Hans Anderson glass shards thing is going to be worked into the plot. Interesting... 

 

The scenes with Will and Snow were hilarious! The actor bring fresh energy to the scenes.

 

All the Hook/Emma moments were so sweet. Emma is actually sharing, and Hook was being so sensitive. I think there're been more callbacks to Neal this season that his total screentime in 3B.

 

Nice to see young Emma flashbacks. And just like many of us guessed, the DQ had a role on Emma's childhood. That will be interesting to see.

 

Now to the Regina/Emma scenes. OMG!! What happened to Emma??! She's been infected with Snow's disease of worshiping Regina while being treated like shit. I won't say more because everyone has been very eloquent on the topic.

 

It might hurt when Emma finds out Hook is keeping something from her, and this will very likely be an unpopular opinion, but Emma has had the tendency to treat Hook like Regina treats her at times. I'm thinking that everything that happened tonight's episode is a bit of a set up.

 

I too had bad flashbacks to Kansas, where Emma was nasty to Hook. I feel like Emma's won't lash out at Hook's mess up this time. 

Edited October 27, 2014 by Rumsy4

[retrograde]

Okay, in fairness to Regina's pants, on re-watch I am equally bothered by that weird white top Emma is wearing. 

[Shanna Marie]

Wow, they may have managed to top "Bleeding Through." It's too bad that OnDemand doesn't allow fast forwarding. I would be okay with watching their commercials, but the only parts of this episode I'd care to rewatch, ever, are the last couple of scenes -- DQ setting Sidney free in her fabulous lair (I think I'm inspired to redecorate my bedroom) and going through Emma's childhood treasure box. Otherwise, I got a lot of rage knitting done. And the Sunday NY Times crossword.

 

especially since I finally figured out who played Lily. It was Christie from Defiance.

Thank you! That was driving me crazy. I kept feeling like I should know her.

 

Because otherwise all I hear coming out of Regina's mouth is, "Wah, you didn't let me kill someone and now it's screwing up my romance, wah." And you want to talk about life ruining, Miss I Cast the Curse That Directly Led to Emma's Sad, Lonely, No One Loves Me Life Because Her Parents Had to Send Her Here Alone So I Wouldn't Kill Her?

And in the category of "really, do they even read their own scripts?" did no one writing this notice they juxtaposed Regina's "you ruined my life" pity party with actual scenes of how badly Emma's life was ruined by Regina? It's just disgusting that they showed this sad, lonely girl who believed no one loved her because of Regina's actions and then in the present had that same girl groveling at Regina's feet, begging to be her friend and feeling horrible guilt for stopping one of Regina's crimes.

 

Seriously, if they hadn't had those ending scenes, this might have been a Jump the Shark episode for me.

 

If someone could give me one good reason why anybody -- not just Emma -- would want Regina to be their friend, hit me with it, mkay?

Don't look at me. I mean, even if you remove the fact of the curse, Regina sending her goons to murder newborn Emma, Emma growing up alone, and even all the stuff that happened in season one, there's still no good reason (other than them both being characters on the same TV show) that anyone would want to be Regina's friend. She's a bitch. She's not even the fun "sit by me and we can snark about everyone else" kind of bitch or the "you wouldn't want to be her enemy, but she's an awesome friend" kind of bitch. She's unpleasant to be around, seldom has anything nice to say about or to anyone, hurls insults left and right, and any friendship is strictly a one-way street unless there's something in it for her. There's no reason to tolerate her presence, let alone grovel and beg to be allowed to breathe the same air.

 

And given their past, if anyone should be groveling and begging to be a friend, it should be entirely the other way around.

 

Was there supposed to be a point to the photo of Emma and Neal? Must have gone over my head.

I think it was just a moment of connection between them because it was a way their pasts had intersected. Opening the box wasn't just emotional for her, but also for him. I liked his reaction, just that muscle in his jaw tightening and he looked like he was swallowing a lump in his throat.

 

Remember when Emma cut down Regina's apple tree with a chainsaw? Good times.

Oh, yeah. I think we need a Phantom Edit version of this episode in which every scene of Emma groveling to Regina is replaced by Emma and the chainsaw, on a loop. Then I might be able to get through the ick to see the scenes I did like.

[retrograde]

I also just realised that Hook was also wearing a terrible shirt in this episode -- as seen in this BTS photo. But mercifully, he never took his jacket off.

 

So just bad clothes all around.

Edited October 27, 2014 by retrograde

[Actionmage]

Did anyone else get the feeling that Lily was being sexually abused?  She was so desperate to run away from  home.

 

I got the feeling that something was off in how desperate Lilly was to runaway, and not for the first time. It could have been any abuse, though. Even neglect, which would dovetail with the feeling invisible and not wanted. I felt for both girls. I was hoping that Emma would take the paper and just never got around to looking her up or was mad, so she tore it up wherever she ended up. Or wherever she went after the van, those folks took it away. I get that the writers wanted Emma to reject Lilly at that moment, so I get the choice.  Still, this is the show-- Disney-approved!-- that thinks it's peachy to not be called on your objectively evil, villainous acts.  

 

Dairy Queen's Fortress of Solitude was fun!  I am glad Sidney got the chance to be his own man/genie again. I truly hope he doesn't go around Regina. I know he has a weakness for her, but we have Emma's inexplicable friendship need with Regina now. That's plenty of 'what in the who now?' for this town.  (I can't even get angry at Elsa for weighing in on a relationship she knows little about. Yeah, she's staying at the Snowing hovel, but if that crew barely conveys important information to each other, Elsa isn't gettin'  a peep from them.)

 

I am finding my Eff Tank for Regina running on fumes ( that's how much I miss Swingtown still.) I want Regina to stumble towards a grayness. Where she is dissatisfied with Evil and will never aspire to Good, but finds a happy, satisfying medium in Gray. That would give her so much more room to play in and notes to hit, as a character. Sorry, sorry; I'm wanting an actually complex antagonist on the show. Rumple is Evil, owns it, has the t-shirt and used it as tp.  Elizzabeth Mitchell is indeed knocking scenes out of the park as DQ. So the writers, or some of them, can actually do something a bit more complex.  Why they won't for Lana P./Regina hurts my head trying to understand.

 

I hope Will and Snow stumble across something important together. David also needs to stop that Mary Margaret business with a damn quickness! Her name is SNOW.

 

Oh my, those previews. I'm really  not sure how I should feel about that.

[stealinghome]

I also just realised that Hook was also wearing a terrible shirt in this episode -- as seen in this BTS photo. But mercifully, he never took his jacket off.

So just bad clothes all around.

I swear, the wardrobe department must have lost a key member this off-season (or been hugely insulted by the cast as a whole). The costumes have been noticeably worse this season as compared to previous seasons.

 

So the writers, or some of them, can actually do something a bit more complex.  Why they won't for Lana P./Regina hurts my head trying to understand.

The problem is they think they are. They honestly believe they're writing Great Complexity for Regina.

[Bluerang1]

Well I thought this would be purely a filler episode but then it revealed the Snow Queen's plan and her past with Emma. I'm liking that she's less Magneto and more what Emma should have done in regards to wanting a family. Like a resentful Emma would have sought her own time curse so she coudl have her lost childhood.

 

The Regina/Emma scenes got a little uncomfortable but it was pretty funny to me for the most part. Their resolution was great, especially Regina  being surprised that Emma thought of her as a friend.

 

It was also good to see a stronger side of Elsa. And I thought Lily was a one episode character but someone pointed out the significance of her scar. I wonder who she'll be related to.

 

 

I hope Will and Snow stumble across something important together. David also needs to stop that Mary Margaret business with a damn quickness! Her name is SNOW.

Haha that bothered me too.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Bluerang1

[pezgirl7]

I didn't even notice Hook was wearing his ugly shirt. I hated Emma's too short sweater. It looked like it was made for a 10 year old.

So any ideas on who actually let Will out of jail? I suppose he could have picked the lock himself, but I would hope those jail cells would be more secure.

I found this episode pretty boring, except for the CaptainSwan scenes, which were beautiful and heartbreaking. I also liked the Snow and Will scenes.

[Camera One]

Where do we start with this mess of an episode.  So we waited three seasons for a full-out Emma flashback, and we get this.

 

I'm guessing this episode began in the writers room with Adam and Eddy suggesting that they do an entire episode where Emma begs Regina to be her friend.  What the hell?!  Emma wanting to reconcile with Regina for the sake of Henry, fine.  Emma wanting to make peace with Regina so they could have a good working relationship to combat megavillains, okay.  But Emma's "I was just looking for you to be my friend"????  I was just staring at the screen at disbelief there.  They were never friends!!!!  

 

And then there was Emma's "They don't understand me the way you do.  They don't understand what it feels like to be rejected and misunderstood".  Give me a freak'in break!  If that's the case, then have a chat with Red, who was rejected for being a werewolf.  It's not like Emma and Regina had nightly talks about how to deal with being rejected and misunderstood.  And Regina is not even "misunderstood"!!!!  She killed villages and was actually EVIL.  She freak'in set your mother on fire!  Misunderstood means people's impressions of you are INACCURATE.  Not to mention Regina was rejected BECAUSE of her murderous behavior.  

 

I just could not take the episode seriously.  Emma buttering Regina up for half an episode...  Regina claiming Emma has never had her back (even though Emma, Snow and Charming have saved her or at the very least gone after her out of concern multitudes of times previously... uh remember the Season 2 finale? the Wraith?  Zelena's showdown at noon?)...  Elsa trying to broker between Emma and Regina "You need to mend your differences or Storybrooke won't stand a chance!" and Regina's toddler-inspired "I don't WANT to!" (insert stamping foot here).

 

And then of course we had the Snow Queen's major misunderstood villain reveal... "Soon I will have what I want - *insert dramatic pause* - a family who loves me."  Dun dun dun.  Could it get any cheesier?

 

Onto the mechanics of the episode.  Was that a particularly special mirror that Regina uses to communicate with Sidney?  Does that wall mirror become the compact mirror?  That confused me since I didn't understand why that specific mirror was so important.  

 

Who goes on a "short hike to the bluffs" at night in pitch dark?  I appreciate them giving Charming and Snow the ever-appreciative C Plot, but could they make one that makes sense?  Hiking at night knowing full well that the Snow Queen is hiding out in the forest?  I seriously don't blame Snow for the sideeye to Belle babysitting.  What happened to Granny or Red?  Are they on the outs?  Then, later on the trail, Snow looks left and suddenly sees Will Scarlet on the beach but Charming didn't see that even though he was standing at the exact same spot?  Huh?  I like Snow and Charming, but the C Plot could have been much more engaging and less pointless, while keeping to the theme of rekindling Snow's sense of adventure away from the baby.

 

Emma has a box with "what's left of my childhood" and there's a photo of her and Neal in there?  Why was the Emma blanket there?  Why did Emma have the video camera anyway?  Why would she put it in her backpack?  Weren't they going to stay long-term at that country house?  

 

This episode was just so clunky all-round and I can hardly come up with positives.  The Younger Emma was good, but I didn't really feel the bond with the actress who played Lily.  The problem with this show is you're always looking out for the next twist, so I was just skeptical of the whole thing.  I guess the twist with the Snow Queen being Emma's foster mother or whoever she was, turned out to be better than what I was imagining, which was Lily turning into My Little Pony and flying out the window.

[MaiLuna]

 

So any ideas on who actually let Will out of jail? I suppose he could have picked the lock himself, but I would hope those jail cells would be more secure.

My only guess would be Hook if Will threatened to tell Emma about the black eye. Will saw how much Hook cares about Emma and his image to her and he used it to his advantage.

[BoPeeps]

Well, dubious plot fillers, the J.C. Penney Wardrobe guest appearance, the WTF-ness of Emma's *You've Got a Friend* moments with Henry's *other mother* and the ballistically Zelena Bitchy-Poo Scenery Chewing award going to uber narcissist on Retro-speed Regina aside, I enjoyed certain bits of plot advancers and sweet sweet moments.

The Entwined Hand Hug is now an iconic symbol for Emma and Hook. I didn't care WHAT shirt he had on. He was sweet, and so was Emma.

I adore the calm menace of Elizabeth Mitchell's Snow Queen.

 

But mostly I adore coming here and reading the wonderful commentary LOLOLOL.

[lvbalgurl]

Hmm.  I guess I'm deeply in the minority but I don't believe the show means to present Regina as anything more than bitchy and irrational due to being hurt and heartbroken over losing Robin.  I don't believe for one second that she is being presented as righteous, or that the show believes anything she spews on Emma is actually logical.  This is just Regina lashing out from her hurt/bitter perspective.

 

Emma laid it on a little thick with the whole "I want to be bffs" spiel but I think it's more about identifying with someone who is in *some* ways like her and who can teach her magic.  Like she said, it's not like she can take online courses to hone her gifts, and I can't see her going to Gold.  I think Emma is looking for a kindred spirit in all of this craziness and I guess I don't have a problem with that.  Even if Regina deserves a swift kick right now.

 

On another note, I have never been much of a Hook/Emma fan but they were really adorable tonight.  When Hook picked up that picture of Emma/Neal, there was a moment that passed between them that I can't describe.  But I liked it.  I'm not sure I've ever taken Hook seriously as a romantic interest for Emma until very recently but the cuddling at the end was uber-sweet.  He truly loves her.

[KAOS Agent]

So basically you guys are saying I can't get drunk enough to make watching this episode palatable?

 

*Goes back to the happy place where the Packers get their collective asses handed to them* 

[FabulousTater]

So basically you guys are saying I can't get drunk enough to make watching this episode palatable?

 

*Goes back to the happy place where the Packers get their collective asses handed to them* 

I as someone who sloshed their way through this episode with a bottle of whisky and switched to jager shots along the way, I can say from experience, Yes, that sums it up. 

[MadyGirl1987]

One of the highlights for me this episode were the moments between Emma and Hook, both at the beginning and end of the episode. Loved them going through the stuff at the end. It was nice to see them being a normal couple outside of all the craziness they have to deal with. I would like to see more of these quiet moments.

 

Loved the Snow Queen. She is being portrayed perfectly. While the big, flamboyant villains can be great, I feel the more understated ones can often be more effective. Liked the reveal of the tape and Emma and Hooks responses, even if I did guess we would be seeing her as soon as it went to the footage from the home.

 

Also thought Charming and Snow's story was good. Loved the scene between Snow and Will Scarlet. Also loved Charming when he was talking about finding Will together and how it would be like old times. Josh, to me at least, looked so excited saying that, and it was adorable.

 

Liked Sydney betraying Regina. Did not see that coming. May be nitpicking, but HOW did he plot with the Snow Queen? Could he just pop up in one of her mirrors? Can he only appear for Regina?

 

My only thing I did not like was the Regina and Emma stuff. Regina needs to grow up, and, while I can her see wanting to make up and put it behind them, come on, Emma. You did nothing wrong and you know it.

[FilmTVGeek80]

 

"You've never had my back and you never will." Why the fuck should Emma have her back ever? She's the reason she grew up an orphan. Emma owes her jack shit.

 

I almost fell into a rage coma with that line. Where does Regina get the gall to act as if she's some put upon friend who gives and gives and is just so unappreciated by everyone around her. I mean how dare Emma save someone's life without checking with Regina first.

 

As others have said, as much as Regina's crap enraged me, I think I was more pissed off/saddened by Emma just sitting back and taking it. As thuganomics85 pointed out that this is so much like Snow going down some ridiculous shame spiral because she killed Cora. I couldn't believe how upset and conflicted Emma looked as Regina ranted and raved about how Emma did her wrong and ruined her life because she saved someone's life! I found myself thinking what happened to the woman from season 1 who would have bitchslapped Regina to hell and back for daring to talk like that to her and with such bassackwards logic to boot. It just freaking kills me that we're actually expected to feel sorry for Regina and really think that Emma has done something that she needs to atone for, with no hint that the writers have any awareness of how fucked up that is.

 

I felt so sickened and bewildered as Regina told Emma off one last time and stomped off and Emma actually looked saddened and like she'd lost something valuable. These two were not that close. They were not friends and they shouldn't be friends.

 

On the one hand, I can sort of appreciate that they tried to justify, or give some motivation, for Emma wanting this friendship because she understands Regina and that they've both been rejected and misunderstood. But that still annoyed me because Regina is not freaking misunderstood. Did we misunderstand her killing her own father to enact a curse which resulted in Emma having a lonely, miserable childhood? Did we misunderstand her sending children to their certain deaths? Did we misunderstand her crushing a man's heart with her bare hand? Regina is not misunderstood and the show needs to stop trying to sell that crap. Having Emma or Snow bend over backwards to apologize to Regina and beg for her friendship does not make me root for those friendships. It does not make me like Regina. It does, unfortunately, make me lose a little respect for Emma and Snow.

 

The actress who played Lilith really sold her desperation and sadness. What she did was bad, but lying is not an unforgivable sin. I didn't begrudge Emma feeling hurt and betrayed, but I wished she had at least taken the paper, even if she never looked at it. I felt bad for both girls. And in now way do Lilith and Regina's sins correlate, so them trying their best to parallel those storyline didn't work for me on that level either.

 

I thought the Snowing plotline was cute. I can take that kind of filler because I've complained in the past about this show being plot, plot, plot and never letting characters have room to breathe, so I like that they're dealing with the repercussions of Snow fearing being separated from Neal (thanks to BFF extraordinaire Regina.) I also LMAO when Charming mentioned Asgard.

 

I like the way Elizabeth Mitchell is playing the Snow Queen. She's so creepy and quietly menacing and it's really working. The twist with her being Emma's "foster mother" didn't surprise me but I like that it's out there already.

 

I loved Sidney getting one over on Regina. I hope his sick obsession with her is over.

Edited October 27, 2014 by FilmTVGeek80

[retrograde]

One thing that annoyed me almost as much as the Emma/Regina nonsense was Will chewing with his mouth open. So. Gross.

[KingOfHearts]

It's ironic that Regina was somewhat right. She knows they can't be friends, and it's true. Emma is willing to endanger other people (like Sidney and Henry) to be friends with her nemesis. I don't find Regina justified or anything, but Emma should know better. I can see now she's taken the same stupid pills as Snow, Henry and Belle.

They finally did it - Emma is a goner. This is officially on my list of Worst Episodes.

Edited October 27, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Dani-Ellie]

You know, this is so sad. Here Emma is, so desperate for understanding that she's willing to chase Regina to get it. Oh, Emma, sweetheart. I just want to hug you and tell you everything's going to be okay.

[FabulousTater]

I only watched this episode because we were finally gonna get Emma flashbacks. Thanks for nothing writers. Emma is an unforgiving brat and is unworthy of Regina's "friendship"; Regina, the woman who tried to kill Emma as a newborn, forced her to be separated from her parents, spent all of S1, and half of s2 trying to kill her or put her in a coma. What's next, writers? The villagers that Regina massacred had it coming? Graham deserved his 30 years as a sex slave?  Got it, twisted morality message received.

 

I'm going back to watching youtube clips of Emma + Hook/Her family only. My liver can't handle the abuse of watching entire episodes anymore (to be horribly honest, I'm afraid to think if this is the kind of twisted morality the writers view the real world with...based on how they perceive Regina, the Enchanted Forest's version of a mass murdering evil dictator, whitewash her horrors and paint her victims as the bad guys, I'm scared to know what they think of the atrocities of WWII...did the victims there have it coming too, writers? You know what? Don't answer that. Ignorance is bliss.) 

[statsgirl]

This episode proved that A&E haven't managed to handle their adoration of all things Regina.

Boo on Emma trying so hard to work with Regina so they can defeat the bad magic.

 

While EM's portrayal is really good, I'm having a hard time connecting to the Snow Queen as a villain.  Maybe it's because I know so little about her and why she's doing what she's doing. With Zelena, I know why it was.

 

Er, no, not at all. From what she said, the problem was neglect, not sexual abuse.

I know, but the dad tried so hard to find her, driving around looking for her, even hunting her with a flashlight at night. If it were neglect, he wouldn't have bothered so much, he would have let her run off.  If she had a secret about him she might tell, that would explain it.  Eh, why am I trying to apply real-world logic to this show?  It was so Emma could feel crappy and fight to be BFFs with Regina.

[El Seed]

I will give the writers this, the title of the episode is appropriate considering all the glass and who knows what else that was broken by viewers in their rage over the Regina/Emma nonsense.

[shapeshifter]

<small voice>I really liked the pants on Regina.</small voice>

I loved Hook in the scene with Emma's box of stuff, but was sad to think they will soon have him turn evil because of last week's evil hand or whatever.

[stealinghome]

I know, but the dad tried so hard to find her, driving around looking for her, even hunting her with a flashlight at night. If it were neglect, he wouldn't have bothered so much, he would have let her run off.  If she had a secret about him she might tell, that would explain it.

I get what you're saying, but I had the exact opposite reaction: I thought the dad coming to look for her drastically undercut Lily's claims of neglect and indifference and showed him to be a pretty normal parent (though I will grant that the dad didn't seem like the warmest, fuzziest guy--but then again, given the situation, it's hard to blame him for some frustration--I also got the sense that this maybe wasn't the first time Lily'd run off). I agree that Lily's claims rang true when she was saying that she felt like she didn't fit in with her adopted family, that they didn't feel like her real family, that she hated it and felt invisible, but to me--perhaps unfairly--that just read like normal emo teenage angst cranked up to 11. Most people feel alienated from their family to some extent in their teenage years (and I imagine knowing that you're adopted could make that sense of alienation much worse, through absolutely no fault of your own). Most teenagers feel out of place and misunderstood. And many teens have busy parents and want more attention than they get. But most people don't decide to seriously run away based on these factors. So I guess at the end of the day Lily just came off to me like a whiny Holden Caulfield-type character, who thinks her angst is SO MUCH ANGSTIER than anyone else's and NO ONE CAN EVER UNDERSTAND HER so she has to run away...while her dad is out frantically looking for her.

 

Which I think is what set Young Emma off so much--her sense that Lily had a family, had a home, and was the one rejecting it, when all Emma had ever wanted was precisely what Lily was throwing away (for what were, at the end of the day, in Emma's eyes not good reasons).

[myril]

Was it really so impossible to make an Emma episode and actual Emma episode and not half of it (or more) another Woegina party?

 

That the Snow Queen somehow his able to erase specific memories can probably make some sense (mirror, reflection of one's identity, memory playing some part in identity), but it  is very convenient for the show. Good thing Emma never dwelt that much on the past in the past though, because I think she might have noticed otherwise gaps. Memories can be falsified, they change, we forget things, some things we never remember, we repress memories, still it doesn't seem that likely, Emma would have forgotten something like being in foster care of the Snow Queen as teenager totally slipped her without leaving a trace of a gap, of things being blurry. Not to mention, she still had that recording. Convenient forgetfulness (which I wish at times I would have concerning the show, just forget most of what seen before, never mind continuity or making sense).

 

Think I get what they're trying, and I should be one of the first to cheer for friendship, women empowering each other, but I just can't in the case of Regina anymore. The parallels they seemingly are giving here with Lily are no parallels, it's a total different story. Lily lied, ( I though do understand her motives, knowing something about feeling invisible with your own family, which all doesn't excuse the manipulation and exploitation of Emma), but that is not Regina. With Regina it's like Emma wanting to become friend with her bully. WTH?!? I honestly wish, I could get behind this, could like what they are doing, but it just doesn't work. Sorry, no. And for a change it's not Regina being the character mess for the moment but Emma.

 

Okay, get it, better stick to fanon than trust these writers with writing any good canon. It's like they're working hard on telling us: Stop wasting time watching our show and talking about it, go, write your own stories, you can do better than this crap we do (though the crap gets the money).

 

Picture of Emma and Neal - some fanservice, though unsure if that will appease some of the rather bitter Neal fans. Can't complain though that they've forgotten Neal.

 

Thanks for letting Elsa safe a part of the day. Now, please, if you're building her up as the one bringing things together and making the difference in the crisis with the Snow Queen, then let her actually have an important part in it. Aside that maybe most of the Frozen fandom is too young to grill you for it if not, don't make again Regina the hero of the moment instead. Because it is Frozen I do have a tiny bit of hope here even.

 

Regina can't earn redemption by doing hero stuff and saving the town, that is not how it works. Make her finally grow up, stop wallowing in self pity and blaming everybody else for her life sucking, and let her accept responsibility for having done horrible, evil stuff, let her get, that she is responsible for her own happiness and not some lover, or her kid, or whatever family.

 

The show runners have good intentions, but they have no idea what they're doing. Adventure, crazy geek twists is their thing but not human nature and psychology. There might be writers in the team with more sense for the latter, but the basic setup works against it. Nothing new, but it made this episode agonizing to watch. The kind of episode reminding what could have been, while at the same time painfully manifesting, it's not there.

 

Swanqueen as friendship ship - really?! Don't think you need to be gay to get possible subtext reading when it's served on a plate like this, but it still only comes as appetizer, it will never be the real deal. And Swanqueen fans actually embrace this queerbaiting fest they made this episode? Pathetic. But go on, don't give up hope, because this show is so about hope. (And maybe some are old enough to remember who was called Hope in Xena? Yup, right, the one who nearly destroyed Xena's and Gabrielle's relation, daughter of Gabrielle and evil Dahak, mother of The Destroyer. Then maybe you get my pun).

 

Meanwhile, while Belle has now taken over the babysitter job from Red, I will foster my fanon, that Mulan and Red are somewhere out in the woods, discovering a deep connection with each other, while on a very secret mission Tinkerbell has send them on. Go WarriorWolf! Just saying. Very much hope, the writers will stay away from that fanon, I want to keep at least one nice dream when thinking of Once Upon A Time. Thanks for creating these characters but leave them alone now, please.

 

No surprise there, that Sidney betrayed Regina, it was obvious the moment she put him back into the mirror. Sidney is a stalker. And he is used to be used (he was after all before being the mirror a jinn), he hardly knows what to make of himself if no one wants to use him. So could be interesting what he is going to do now, that he is free (again), he seemed bit lost that the Snow Queen let him go, didn't he. The last person who set Sidney free had to pay a high price for it in the end, Snow's father, Leopold, was murdered by Sidney.

 

Are we getting some badass Snow back? See what wonders it can do for Snow if her story his not about / involving Regina.

 

The one thing that somewhat saved this episode for me: Elizabeth Mitchell, the Snow Queen. Particular the scene with Elsa and even more the Snow Queen alone in her lair.. Intrigued about the mirror , that is the kind of multilayered possible meanings I like, though with these writers I doubt they have an understanding of it going beyond playing around with shiny stuff.

 

While all the woeing biggest victim of all and life Regina makes me less and less sympathetic with Regina, the totally understated, cold, ambiguous Snow Queen manages to make me feel for her for a second with just one sentence and look (scene "family that loves me"). Go figure. It's mind-boggling that the writers, who make such a mess of Regina and made a close to unbearable nuisance of The Wicked Witch aka Zelena, are still able to create a character like the Snow Queen. Although at least half of it is Mitchell's acting.

Edited October 27, 2014 by katusch

[PepperMonkey]

At least there was no Henry this week, except as a mention.

 

Elizabeth Mitchell is made of marshmallow stars and awesome.

[daxx]

Speaking of Henry. Where did Hook get the boat for sailing? "Borrowed"?

[Rumsy4]

 

And Swanqueen fans actually embrace this queerbaiting fest they made this episode? Pathetic.

 

I would have to agree. I can no longer say that OUAT doesn't do Queerbaiting (the Mulan stuff is debatable as Qb). Regina actually told Emma that she was trying to "win her back". 

 

 

Speaking of Henry. Where did Hook get the boat for sailing? "Borrowed"?

 

Maybe he used his doubloons to rent one. One can only hope... haha 

[Camera One]

Maybe everyone else decided it might not be a good idea to go sailing at night?  Is Henry is now "okay" with Emma dating Hook?  Or is that in the deleted footage?

 

Is the Sheriff Station closer to Regina's mausoleum and the cemetery than to Main Street?  I was wondering why Elsa had to go there with Emma and wait in the car.  Except for the contrived Follow-the-Fake-Anna reason.

 

Why did the Snow Queen have to chain Elsa up tonight of all nights?  But Elsa got free, so no worries, it's on tomorrow's to-do list?  

[Leia1979]

Shut up, Regina. Just. Shut. Up.

 

Not only did she display the emotional maturity of a 13-year-old, Emma continued to just take it. I think I'm used to that nonsense from Woegina by this point (though I started laughing hysterically at her moping with the photo of her and Robin, forcing me to pause the DVR and explain to my husband why it was so funny), but I'm pissed that Emma wanted to be her friend through all that crap instead of pointing out Regina's the one who wanted to kill everyone at one time or another. You want a friend who can sort of understand? Stick with Elsa. You only need a functional acquaintance with Regina.

 

Okay, now that I've got that out, how about some positive things:

The Captain Swan bookend moments were just adorable. I'm enjoying it while it lasts, because I know things are going to hell in a handbasket soon with all the sekrits.

DQ is by far my favorite role of Elizabeth Mitchell's. She's delightfully cold.

I liked that we kept the same actress (and story continuity) from the orphanage scene in Snow Drifts.

 

Other random things:

I'm still confused by the Knave. What's he looking for? How did he get out of jail? Why am I so confused now that he and Hook have similar outfits?

Speaking of outfits, I though Emma's crop sweater was cute, but it also shows that even professional costumers don't quite know what to do with a cropped sweater. I liked the ponytail, too.

The only thing I got out of the flashback was that event being the start of Emma's great mistrust of people. I refuse to let it apply to this Regina friendship nonsense. 

 

I know I had other thoughts as I was watching, but I got so close to table flipping over Regina that I forgot them. 

[Rumsy4]

This episode was worse than Bleeding Through in some respects, because Emma said that she could relate more to the Evil Queen, than to her own mother. You know, the woman who rejected, misunderstood, hunted down, tried to burn alive, and cursed Snow White.

[kili]

When a man who has been locked in solitary confinement in an insane asylum for 2 years is more rational than you, you might have issues.

 

Kudos to Sidney for figuring out that his relationship with Regina is abusive and that it is reasonable for him to want out of it. On the other hand, Emma might want to get some counseling sessions with Dr. Hopper to figure out why she insists on trying to be friends with somebody who has harmed her so many times and is actively being rude to her now. Let's just remember that Regina was complaining about Emma freeing an innocent woman from prison whilst she herself was enslaving somebody in a mirror. Go Sidney.

 

That Fake!Anna was sent over from Horror movie central casting. When will people learn that if somebody is vaguely begging for help while they keep moving away from you, it's a trap? At least Elsa has the excuse of not having seen any B-grade horror movies.

 

Regina argues that  Emma has never had her back. I guess that it must have been a different Emma who saved her from a fire, saved her from a wraith, came back and saved her from her own self-destruct weapon, came back to rescue her from Tink, etc. That actually makes sense because the Emma who did all those things would have told Regina off for this ridiculousness and rudeness.

 

David is set to fall through a portal to Asgard = Love.

Snow Queen is making a mirror = Intriguing.

Will buried the map that tells him where he buries his things = LOL.

Regina is rude to Emma = Hate.

Hook and Emma = Adorable

Snow Queen and Sidney = Hell Yah!

Regina = Ugh

Snow Queen's Layer = Awesome

Emma desperate to be Regina's Friend = Hate^20

Pop-Tarts which have been nibbled = Hah!

Lily = Okay... (there must be more to the story)

Snow Queen as Foster Mom = I'm listening

[KAOS Agent]

Okay, so surprisingly I didn't hate this episode. Mostly I think because I was ready for the verbal abuse at Emma. Also, I'm from Hopkins, Minnesota, so I had to laugh when Emma was almost picked up for shoplifting there. Though I spent that first flashback thinking yeah, that's not Hopkins. Random trivia: the homecoming king at Hopkins High in '97 was a foster kid who deeply loved his foster parents and grew up to play in the NFL, so it's unfortunate that Emma ended up back in the system with the Snow Queen and not with an awesome family like Mike's. 

 

Some things I liked:

 

"Upon further reflection..." Oh Sidney, I love you. Three cheers for finally breaking away from the bitch who enslaved you. It was also really nice that the Snow Queen just let him go. She didn't need him or want him, but she didn't feel like he needed to be held captive either and he can just go on living his life. I like that about her. It shows self-awareness about being locked up or urned as the case may be. 

 

Everything about Hook & Emma's interactions. He was so sweet and supportive and knows her well enough not to push. Even asking permission and ensuring that she was okay before opening the little box. 

 

Snow letting go of Baby Snowflake for a bit. It was nice to see David helping her to take a break from the baby. However, since when do mayors get to pardon anyone? No, no, no.

 

The Snow Queen, her Fortress of Solitude and her understated craziness. Can we keep her?

 

The return of the blue leather jacket. I don't care if it was just in a picture. The blue leather jacket lives on!

 

Things I am confused about:

 

How long was Emma in the vault with Regina? When she went in it was full daylight and then she came out in complete darkness. How much abuse did she take that we didn't see?

 

Is Emma's wrist tattoo something she gave herself to feel unique and special like she told Lily hers was? It seemed like that's what that scar/birthmark conversation was leading to.

 

What was the message with Emma/Lily, Emma/Regina and just Regina's character in general? This show is so all over the place with Regina's characterization and how others react to her, I'm never sure whether they're trying to tell me that she's right on some level and she deserves an apology from her victims or whether I'm supposed to see her as completely delusional and not self-aware. Even here she was threatening to lock Sidney up in the asylum again and saying terrible things to Emma and then we go to her getting all teary eyed that Emma wants to be friends. Who in hell would root for someone to be friends with someone like that? Also, remember when she got all sweet and happy that Kathryn called her a friend? We all know where that went, so I'm not at all on board with the messaging here.

 

Finally, I'm wondering if some of the messaging about forgiving someone who lies to you is meant to be a signal about how Emma learned something with the Lily situation and will tie in with how she may react to Hook's lies of omission. They did set it up for it to work out that way.

[Camera One]

Finally, I'm wondering if some of the messaging about forgiving someone who lies to you is meant to be a signal about how Emma learned something with the Lily situation and will tie in with how she may react to Hook's lies of omission. They did set it up for it to work out that way.

Yeah, pretty much you ask to be friends with a mass-murderer and then you just work backwards from there.  You watched a helpless old man get sucked into a hat by the Dark One and didn't tell me?  Oh no problemo, all is forgiven.  Catch ya later, dinner and a stake burning to attend.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

How can anyone be friends with the person they watched gleefully burn their mother alive? And then turn around and claim that that mother couldn't relate to being rejected and misunderstood?

Edited October 27, 2014 by Rumsy4

[InsertWordHere]

Yeah, pretty much you ask to be friends with a mass-murderer and then you just work backwards from there.  You watched a helpless old man get sucked into a hat by the Dark One and didn't tell me?  Oh no problemo, all is forgiven.  Catch ya later, dinner and a stake burning to attend.

All Hook has to do is put Emma down a couple times and spend an episode whining about how it's really Emma's fault he needed a hand. Emma will be seeking him out and begging forgiveness in no time. Bonus points if during his away from Emma time he enslaves someone and gets Henry on board a morally questionable secret mission, probably naming it Operation Whatever the Swan's biggest predator is. Maybe Snow will even come to him for parenting advice.

 

(Disclaimer: this is sarcasm. I want none of this to happen and I don't think Hook would do any of the above nor do I think characters would react to Hook's wrongdoing the same way they have reacted to Regina's)

[Blue Plastic]

Seriously I think this Will guy spent a longer time in jail for his minor crimes than Regina ever has for everything she has done.  And the Regina Pity Party continues with her constant bleating about how horrible it was that Emma saved Maid Marian's life.  I don't expect Regina to be reflective enough to realize how messed up that is, but I do expect Emma to.  I kept waiting for any character, any character at all, to point out that Emma hasn't done anything bad to Regina AT ALL and also OH BY THE WAY, Emma, the reason you grew up as an ORPHAN is because of what Regina did to you!  Remember that?  It's apparent the writers sure don't.  I get that they're trying to further the plot along at the expense of the characters, but it would be a teeny tiny bit easier to swallow if anyone in this episode had served as the voice for the audience.

 

About the only thing enjoyable for me was the re-creation of the snow/ice staircase from the movie.

 

Isn't Sidney just going to end up right back in the mirror?  There's nowhere for him to even run since the ice walls are still up around the town.  How come Dairy Queen can do all this extra stuff, like releasing mirror genies and "apparating"?  Elsa has not been shown to have any of those abilities.

[Whodunnit]

A few thoughts on this episode:

 

When I saw Will digging hole after hole after hole I kept waiting for Snow to joke making a reference to Holes, because we know how much the writers love to promote their Disney connections.

 

My CS shipping heart was very happy for these little moments that Emma and Hook got to have as they surely will be taking 3 steps back as soon as Emma learns the truth and because this episode had little else going for it aside from Sidney's revenge (I refuse to call it betrayal because that mental woman enslaved and imprisoned him for 28+ years).

I know that I'm in the minority but I actually liked Elsa's cape... it wen't well with her sparkly ice escapades outfit.

I cheered when Elsa realized that all she had to be was brave to break free from the chains, but then she had to go and try to convince Emma to "save her friendship" garbage... she is called the Evil Queen for a reason, Elsa. Even without knowing anything else (and its clear that no one tells her anything) that should have given her pause. Sigh, goody two shoes.

 

I think that Lilith parallels Hook, not Regina. Both lied to Emma in part to spare her feelings; in Hook's case he deliberately lied to her back with the Zelena fiasco. Unlike the sort of things Regina has done, these sins are forgivable. Also--as with Lilith--Hook did try to apologize when caught in the lie.