S08.E09: Flatline

[Tara Ariano]

Clara battles a menace from another dimension and tries to free the entrapped Doctor.

[romantic idiot]

Oh good God - Clara the saviour again - really?

[tarotx]

The episode looks like it will still be good. Even though the doctor is the bet part of the season so less him will always be bad. But I'm hoping that it's not as bad as it could be...

[AudienceofOne]

Did a really fascinating premise just turn into a bad zombie film? The genre has a lot to answer for.

 

I thought this was quite well written - Jamie Matheison has a clean, light touch that's been missing from this show - but this was ultimately 1% premise, 97% padding and 2% WTF.

 

"I've always wanted to ram something" is the best line from anything, ever.

 

I really liked Rigby and wish to hell some of these in-story companions would stick around. They're far more interesting than the wall-to-wall bland of Moffatt's female companions.

 

The theme of this season appears to be "learning to survive without the Doctor" which:

(a) makes no sense from a character perspective for Clara who, with a job, boyfriend and family was doing fine without the Doctor and;

(b) seems a strange choice in a show called Doctor Who.

 

For once I enjoyed the Clara/Danny phonecall in the middle of the crazy.

 

When the Missy thing finally comes to fruition, it's going to be boring and nonsensical, isn't it?

[Meredith Quill]

O.M.G Finally, it happened; an episode that I could get on board with, WOOT! Better late than never.

Flatline felt like it got back to what I love about DW and even though the monster of the week was a little silly (has that ever stopped DW before?!), the way it played out had me on the edge of my seat once or twice and when the Doctor saved the day I was in rapt attention and even had goosebumps. (Goosebumps have always been my barometer of a great episode). I am now officially loving Peter Capaldi! Let's hope this was only the beginning of a beautiful friendship. 8/10 :D

[alrightokay]

The theme of this season appears to be "learning to survive without the Doctor" which:

(a) makes no sense from a character perspective for Clara who, with a job, boyfriend and family was doing fine without the Doctor and;

(b) seems a strange choice in a show called Doctor Who.

I feel like the theme is more "learning what it's like to be the Doctor" and realizing how hard it is. The line, "You were an exceptional Doctor.  Goodness had nothing to do with it," implied that Clara still doesn't understand the difficult moral and spiritual costs of being the Doctor.  She thinks everything's fine because "on balance," way more people lived than died.  But when someone as hateful as Fenton gets to live, it's hard to celebrate defeating "the monster."  There are still so many monsters left, and the Doctor can't vanquish them all. 

 

I sort of wish that "Kill the Moon" had come after "Flatline" and had ended differently.  In KTM, Clara judged the Doctor for abandoning her and forcing her to make the decision whether to destroy the moon-egg.  If KTM had come after "Flatline," perhaps Clara, having learned from "being the Doctor" once, would have understood the Doctor's reasoning better and would not have been so angry at him.  She would have understood that this is what the Doctor does all the time: make impossible decisions and then have to live with them.  She would have seen why it was a sign of respect that the Doctor let her make the moon decision, and she would have been grateful that her decision didn't end in any more deaths.  She would have had a deeper appreciation for what the Doctor's been through and what he still goes through: wanting to save everyone but knowing he can't.  I realize that such an ending to KTM would throw a wrench in the writers'  apparent plan to create conflict between the Doctor and Clara, but I think it would have been a more satisfying way to develop both characters.

 

Back to "Flatine"--I loved the visuals in this episode.  The neurons, the skin graft, and the stretched face on the walls were all intriguing works of art.  And I thought the mural of victims showing only their backs was a poignant way to show the facelessness of crime victims in poorer areas.  Some of the dialogue felt a little "off" to me, but now that I think about it, it seems like Clara was trying to be the Doctor as Eleven.  Some of her lines felt so flippant and cheerful at times (such as in the whole hairband scene), they reminded me a lot of Eleven.  Perhaps that's another reason Twelve wasn't thrilled with Clara's impersonation of him--as he said back at the end of "Deep Breath," she still doesn't see the Doctor as HIM.

[John Potts]

I really liked the episodce, but if I had one slight criticism, it was that I would have preferred the aliens not to be "evil" but simply careless and only killing people because they simply didn't understand how 3d creatures "worked". The idea that unthinking actions can turn out to be harmful is well established in SF (both the Ender series and ST:TNG's Silicon Avatar address the idea) and I thought that might be the way the story was going, only for the Doctor to go all, "Well, it seems you're evil so I'll have to destroy you." Admittedly he wasn't certain, but you'd think he'd take a moment to make sure they weren't simply blundering around (admitedly, they did seem pretty aggressive for people to just go "Oopsie, didn't mean to kill your friends!").

 

Having lived in Bristol for many years, I was wondering where it was filmed and the answer was (apparently) Gloucester, which makes me wonder why they didn't simply set it there. About the only Bristol reference was the grafitti artist who was clearly modelled on Banksy (a renowned Bristol grafitti artist who has had actual exhibitions of his work) without actually being him. Although I guess one underground tunnel looks much like another.

[elle]

Danny respondng to Clara's hello: What's up, b****?  *Excuse me, MISTER Pink?!*

 

Talk about being taken out of the how.  That was completely unnecessary.  No, I don't see that as an endearment.

 

I really liked the episodce, but if I had one slight criticism, it was that I would have preferred the aliens not to be "evil" but simply careless and only killing people because they simply didn't understand how 3d creatures "worked". The idea that unthinking actions can turn out to be harmful is well established in SF (both the Ender series and ST:TNG's Silicon Avatar address the idea) and I thought that might be the way the story was going, only for the Doctor to go all, "Well, it seems you're evil so I'll have to destroy you." Admittedly he wasn't certain, but you'd think he'd take a moment to make sure they weren't simply blundering around (admitedly, they did seem pretty aggressive for people to just go "Oopsie, didn't mean to kill your friends!").

The writer even had the Doctor say just that "wouldn't that be a nice change" (may not be exact quote)  I guess there wasn't enough time for a non-malevolent look at "Flatland comes to Bristol" when we have to have the bit with Missy.

 

I thought that the Doctor's number one rule was "The Doctor lies."

 

On a shallow note, I did laugh at the "Thing from the Addams Family" homage.

Edited October 19, 2014 by elle

[benteen]

Okay, I LOVED that episode.  It felt like an RTD-era story.  The Doctor puts his companion down in a place they're not supposed to be (which of course happened all the time on Classic Who) and return to the present day to discover people have gone missing under unusual circumstances.  Plus we had some actual consequences with people staying dead and one of the survivors being a miserable bastard.

 

Flatline was a great use of Clara in the central role (she was fun as "The Doctor") while still keeping the Doctor involved (and ripping out some great one-liners along the way).  The two-dimensional monsters were inventive and scary with some terrific CGI.  I can definitely understand what John Potts said about how interesting it would have been if it was just a misunderstanding on their part but we do get the Doctor's great line telling them that they "are determined to be the monsters." 

 

Great visuals with the Doctor doing his best Thing impersonation.  We even get cool stuff like a train bearing down on the TARDIS.

 

A suspenseful hour of television that managed to pack a lot of stuff into it.

Edited October 19, 2014 by benteen

[GenieinTX]

Can we keep Jamie Mathieson?  I like the way he writes.  Yes, it was all Clara again but I felt the point of it this time.  With his writing, you have a good monster of the week the Doctor has to solve, with just a bit of series long story/angst/whathaveyou. 

 

And seriously, the Wee Tardis is one of the best visuals this show has had in a long time.  I loved it.  The Wee Tardis plus all the artwork, very nice eye candy episode.

[miles2go]

Sorry, minority opinion here. "Flatline" was flat out dumb.  But I did like the the Addams Family bit. (Hooray for Thing)

 

When the Missy thing finally comes to fruition, it's going to be boring and nonsensical, isn't it

Possibly.  But for now I'm curious to see where it's going.

[Pattycake2]

FINALLY! This planet is protected.  I am THE DOCTOR and you are not welcome here!  THAT's what I've been waiting to hear.  Clara and Danny continue to annoy me, but I finally have a Doctor!  Woot!

[futurechemist]

I liked this episode. They took a mundane thing (graffiti) and made it scary.  The Doctor wasn't as much of a jerk as previous episodes.  And it wasn't as jarring to have Clara be the central character.  It was also nice to see her learning that sometimes people die and the Doctor can't save everyone, so sometimes harsh truths are needed.

 

My interpretation of the final scene is Missy confirming she was the woman in the shop who gave Clara the Doctor's phone number.

 

Upon further reflection, it's possible the Doctor came off well in this episode because they made someone else - Fenton - ridiculously unpleasant.

 

 

FINALLY! This planet is protected.  I am THE DOCTOR and you are not welcome here!  THAT's what I've been waiting to hear.  Clara and Danny continue to annoy me, but I finally have a Doctor!  Woot!

I heard it as "This plane is protected" with the Doctor referring to the 3rd dimension the aliens stumbled into.

Edited October 19, 2014 by futurechemist

[Pattycake2]

I heard it as "This plane is protected" with the Doctor referring to the 3rd dimension the aliens stumbled into.

 

Well, dang.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Sorry, minority opinion here. "Flatline" was flat out dumb.  But I did like the the Addams Family bit. (Hooray for Thing)

 

It was an OK episode, but seriously two train related episodes in a row.  I'm surprised the Doctor didn't ask Riggsby if he used to be a soldier (since that seems to be a recurring theme as well).

 

Not sure what Missy was all happy about at the end -- she didn't meet any new people (wherever she is).

Edited October 19, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[rainbowrockgal]

I thought he said "This plane is protected" because they were from a 2 dimensional plane.  Could have mis heard it, will pay more attention on 2nd watch.

[fantique]

Danny responding to Clara's hello: What's up, b****?  *Excuse me, MISTER Pink?!*

 

Are you sure you didn't mishear this (I assuming you heard him say bitch)? I know I didn't hear that and because no one else has commented on it (and I am pretty sure they would have), I am pretty sure they heard what I heard: "I'm at our bench" or something close to that. Also used the subtitles for the first time on iTunes and if they are as bad as that live then I can imagine anyone who struggles with UK accents loses a bit of some scenes. I just saw the captions call the GCSEs the GCCs so...

 

I liked the monsters in this episode in the sense that they actually scared me quite a bit. The mummy was just gross but the concept behind the MotW this time is just one of those things that freak me out. The idea of beings living in a 2D world is both crazy and something that you consider when learning about dimensions' implication in how the world works.

I like the weird polarisation that's happening with Clara and the Doctor's response negating "being the Doctor = being good". I think it holds with what this season has been showing and telling me so far. With Missy, the plot thickens... I like Clara being her pet project. I wonder what her plans for the Doctor are. It's so fun for me to wait for the surprise I am not even speculating and trusting (fingers crossed) they will blow my mind.

As soon as the Doctor made his defender speech I knew a lot of people would be happy. While I like the Doctor figuring out that, good or bad man, he can be a hero if he decides (like Robin Hood) to be one, I would have wanted that kind of speech to be in the finale. However if they put it now, it means they are going to go nuts (hopefully) for the finale so eager anticipation here. It's all coming together and I love the episode by itself and as part of this current series.

Edited October 19, 2014 by fantique

[Maelstrom]

The good: this was the first episode of the season that really felt like Doctor Who to me. Moffs is finally letting Twelve develop his own personality beside old and grumpy. Capaldi had just the right amount of snark and exuberance that always says Doctor to me. The Tiny Tardis was fun, and Twelve *finally* got his Bad Damn Hero moment at the end. About time!

 

The bad: Clara. If I never have to watch her again, it'll be too soon.

 

If this episode had come earlier in the season I might have been able to get on board with Clara, to some degree at least. But I'm sick of her dismissiveness of the Doctor, sick of her and Danny, and sick of her having to save the day every. damn. episode.

 

WTF of the Week: Clara getting pissy about the Doctor not getting her home at the exact second she ordered him to - um, Clara, have you ever met the Doctor before? You're lucky he got you to the right island on the right day. Though I did love the line "these readings look very ish-y." I'll have to use that in real life sometime.

 

Overall, an enjoyable episode. Which is the highest praise I've given all season.

[alias1]

elle said: 

"Danny respondng to Clara's hello: What's up, b****?  *Excuse me, MISTER Pink?!*

 

Talk about being taken out of the how.  That was completely unnecessary.  No, I don't see that as an endearment." 

-----------------------------------------------------------------

This is exactly what my closed captioning said and I replayed it because I couldn't believe that's what I read.    I totally agree, that will never be considered an ok endearment in my book.  Is this a normal expression in the UK?

[benteen]

The good: this was the first episode of the season that really felt like Doctor Who to me. Moffs is finally letting Twelve develop his own personality beside old and grumpy. Capaldi had just the right amount of snark and exuberance that always says Doctor to me. The Tiny Tardis was fun, and Twelve *finally* got his Bad Damn Hero moment at the end. About time!

 

The bad: Clara. If I never have to watch her again, it'll be too soon.

 

If this episode had come earlier in the season I might have been able to get on board with Clara, to some degree at least. But I'm sick of her dismissiveness of the Doctor, sick of her and Danny, and sick of her having to save the day every. damn. episode.

 

WTF of the Week: Clara getting pissy about the Doctor not getting her home at the exact second she ordered him to - um, Clara, have you ever met the Doctor before? You're lucky he got you to the right island on the right day. Though I did love the line "these readings look very ish-y." I'll have to use that in real life sometime.

 

Overall, an enjoyable episode. Which is the highest praise I've given all season.

 

We also got that great bit in the beginning when the Doctor told Clara he had stopped listening to her a while ago.

 

The Clara/Danny bits were definitely the weakest part of Flatline but I still thought this was one of Clara's best episodes.

Edited October 19, 2014 by benteen

[MadMouse]

Wow two fantastic episodes in a row. I hope Jaime Mathieson is back next season, I said it after Mummy and I'll say it again he gets this Doctor and Clara better than any other writer. I more convinced than ever the show needs an influx of new writers every few years.

 

What I liked more than anything was how grounded it felt. I know that sounds stupid in an episode featuring a shrinking Tardis and 2D monsters but it was the setting and characters that did it. They were unimportant and "lower" class, I guess that made them feel more real to me. That had a real RTD feel to it and it added some humanity that's been lacking from the show for awhile. Rigsy had all the makings of a companion of from the RTD era.

 

Also this episode should put to rest any fears fans have of a female Doctor. Clara stepped into the role and it was perfectly fine. The world didn't end and the show still was Doctor Who. It's far past time for this to happen.

 

My two biggest problems still have to do with Clara. Its frustrating that she's written so inconsistently, Jenna Coleman is so good when given the chance like this week. And the idea that traveling with the Doctor changes you for the worse, I hate it now and during Journey's End too. Maybe I could buy into it if it didn't seem to be just about her lying. But even then it's still presented like a weird love triangle or career versus family scenario.

 

Oh does anyone think Missy could be Clara's mom? Wasn't it hinted at she died during the Auton invasion during Rose?

[Maelstrom]

We also got that great bit in the beginning when the Doctor told Clara he had stopped listening to her a while ago.

Yes! That was my other favorite line of the night. Thank you! (How could I have forgotten?!)

 

Still don't know or care what's up with Missy. Whatever, show, it's not going to make any sense anyway so I'm not going to waste brainpower on it.

[Lantern7]

I had fun. Tiny TARDIS = huge laughs. And who hasn't gotten a TARDIS in a purse at one point or another? Now there's probably going to be one with Capaldi's eyes staring out of it on sale in 6-8 months.

 

I thought Clara was cool as a Doctor surrogate. And, like the Doctor, she's a bit of a liar. That'll bite her in her butt soon.

[AudienceofOne]

"Danny respondng to Clara's hello: What's up, b****?  *Excuse me, MISTER Pink?!*

 

Talk about being taken out of the how.  That was completely unnecessary.  No, I don't see that as an endearment."

 

This is exactly what my closed captioning said and I replayed it because I couldn't believe that's what I read.

 

That is absolutely not what he said. In fact when I read that original post, I couldn't understand why anyone would think that was what he said until I read your closed captioning remark. What he said was, "I'm at our bench".

[benteen]

The shrinking TARDIS was cool.  Shrinking storylines have been with Doctor Who since the beginning...as a matter of fact, the original script for Doctor Who was about "shrinking" (It later became the first serial of Season 2).

[miles2go]

That is absolutely not what he said. In fact when I read that original post, I couldn't understand why anyone would think that was what he said until I read your closed captioning remark. What he said was, "I'm at our bench".

This definitely makes more sense than "What's up, bitch?"  But that's exactly what my subtitles said, too.  I wondered if, in the UK, that was considered an affectionate term?!  

 

My faith is now shaken.  If you can't trust subtitles, what can you trust?

[AudienceofOne]

My faith is now shaken.  If you can't trust subtitles, what can you trust?

 

 

Nothing. All truth is broken. Televisual infrastructure is inadequate. Life is meaningless. I would imagine whoever does these subtitles must be under the pump though for them to be available when the episode first airs.

[benteen]

I just saw the caption on another board.  Yeah, something was definitely lost in translation with the CC.

[Kalliste]

I can't believe it was captioned that way... did it even sound like that? :D I might have to see if it says the same thing here when it airs tonight.

 

I liked this episode, I would have liked more Doctor and Less ClaraDoctor but it was still good. Loved the doctor moving the Tardis with his fingers :D And the train driver being very hopeful he would get to ram something.

 

I wonder what the deal is with next week.. too much Danny by the look of it but I guess we'll see.

[ganesh]

I don't know if everyone got it because it was so subtle, but Clara was totally the Doctor, you guys! You might have missed it, it was only said 400 times. As far as I'm concerned, the only Companion Doctor was Doctor Donna. 

 

I really liked Rigby and wish to hell some of these in-story companions would stick around. They're far more interesting than the wall-to-wall bland of Moffatt's female companions.

 

It's really weird because all the one-off have been much more interesting this season. Now, if this was leading to something of a season arc, that would be cool. This Missy is going to be the typical plot mess bullshit. 

 

But I'm sick of her dismissiveness of the Doctor, sick of her and Danny, and sick of her having to save the day every. damn. episode.

 

I don't see why this couldn't have been the Doctor leading the way. TPTBs are getting in their own way of just telling a Doctor Who story this season. "This isn't London. This is Bristol!" You do know the TARDIS, by now, right? Although I did like the Doctor, "Can you let me have this? There's not many things I don't know."

 

This was actually a cool concept for a show. 2D people. Though, I would have preferred if they weren't just straight up monsters. Maybe leave it slightly ambiguous, but still have the Doctor say, "you're not doing this right; I'm still sending you back."

 

It was phenomenally stupid of Clara to answer the phone when she was trapped in the living room. 

 

What he said was, "I'm at our bench".

 

I didn't think otherwise because he was sitting on a bench, and then he said, "you're missing all the people." 

Edited October 19, 2014 by ganesh

[catrox14]

Can someone let me know when Doctor Who actually has the Doctor doing 'doctory' things instead of Clara.  Gods.  If you want Clara to be the Doctor, just make her the godsdamn Doctor and stop baiting me with Peter Capaldi's Doctor being the star of the show. 

Edited October 19, 2014 by catrox14

[fantique]

My faith is now shaken.  If you can't trust subtitles, what can you trust?

What I noticed is that there are 2 types of subtitles available when watching online or on the TV. Recommended closed caption and then english subtitles. The non-recommended option is usually more accurate. Maybe that will help. I actually don't watch Doctor Who with subtitles so I don't if it will help.

Edited October 19, 2014 by fantique

[Llywela]

Hmm. Enjoyable episode, intriguing concept, very inventive and atmospheric, strong supporting characters - I loved the Doctor here, he's really been allowed to come into his own these last couple of episodes, after being stifled all season.

 

But Clara drags everything down, for me. I don't like her attitude and I don't like her manner. Everything about her feels forced. Her entire personality has been shaped by the requirements of plot and is not pleasant. I feel like the writing at times is almost hammering me over the head with, "look how cute and adorable she is!" but she isn't. I don't find her cute or adorable. I find her self-important and self-absorbed and completely the wrong personality to be with the Doctor. Seriously, the TARDIS has shrunk and she barely even blinks, too busy complaining about her schedule being disrupted - and although plenty of other companions have had a moan about the Doctor's piloting skills, the difference with Clara is that she really means it! There's a harsh edge to her that I find really off-putting. She takes something amazing and makes it seem so mundane.

 

I'd love to have kept Rigby, though! He was lovely.

 

I thought this was quite well written - Jamie Matheison has a clean, light touch that's been missing from this show - but this was ultimately 1% premise, 97% padding and 2% WTF.

When the Missy thing finally comes to fruition, it's going to be boring and nonsensical, isn't it?

I agree about Mathieson - his light touch really stands out in a horribly heavy-handed season.

 

And as for Missy...I hate to say it, but you're almost certainly right!

 

I thought that the Doctor's number one rule was "The Doctor lies."

That was the 11th Doctor's rule. It isn't applicable to other regenerations, who have different approaches, different priorities, different personas.

 

And seriously, the Wee Tardis is one of the best visuals this show has had in a long time.  I loved it.  The Wee Tardis plus all the artwork, very nice eye candy episode.

Tiny TARDIS is always fun! Previously seen in Planet of Giants in the '60s, Carnival of Monsters in the '70s and Logopolis in the '80s - this was a fun riff on an old concept!

 

I liked this episode. They took a mundane thing (graffiti) and made it scary.  The Doctor wasn't as much of a jerk as previous episodes.  And it wasn't as jarring to have Clara be the central character.  It was also nice to see her learning that sometimes people die and the Doctor can't save everyone, so sometimes harsh truths are needed.

My problem is that Clara has been with the Doctor for a long time now. She should already know this - does, in fact. Was she paying no attention at all last season? Has she been paying no attention this season? Well, clearly not, because she's been too absorbed by her own reaction to a new Doctor to try to understand him at all, but it just feels like the most enormous waste of time - we've had a whole season of Clara disliking the Doctor because she couldn't get her head around a concept she should already be familiar with, a concept every other companion grasped early on. It doesn't reflect well on her or the show and I can't really understand the thinking behind making this a season-long theme. There were so many other ways the new dynamic could have been played.

 

The good: this was the first episode of the season that really felt like Doctor Who to me. Moffs is finally letting Twelve develop his own personality beside old and grumpy. Capaldi had just the right amount of snark and exuberance that always says Doctor to me. The Tiny Tardis was fun, and Twelve *finally* got his Bad Damn Hero moment at the end. About time!

 

The bad: Clara. If I never have to watch her again, it'll be too soon.

 

If this episode had come earlier in the season I might have been able to get on board with Clara, to some degree at least. But I'm sick of her dismissiveness of the Doctor, sick of her and Danny, and sick of her having to save the day every. damn. episode.

 

WTF of the Week: Clara getting pissy about the Doctor not getting her home at the exact second she ordered him to - um, Clara, have you ever met the Doctor before? You're lucky he got you to the right island on the right day. Though I did love the line "these readings look very ish-y." I'll have to use that in real life sometime.

 

Overall, an enjoyable episode. Which is the highest praise I've given all season.

Yes to all of this. So much yes.

TPTBs are getting in their own way of just telling a Doctor Who story this season.

Yes, I agree with this.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Llywela

[miles2go]

What I noticed is that there are 2 types of subtitles available when watching online or on the TV. Recommended closed caption and then english subtitles. The non-recommended option is usually more accurate. Maybe that will help. I actually don't watch Doctor Who with subtitles so I was confused about the comments LOL. 

I actually was using closed captioning, although I said "subtitles" (I tend to use the words interchangeably, although they're not quite the same thing.)  I only have the one option on TV broadcasts, although I go for the subtitle option if I'm watching a DVD.

 

I'd always assumed that the captions were fairly accurate --  won't be assuming that anymore!

[KatWay]

Too much Clara maybe, but this episode and the last were my favourites so far. This writer is one they should definitely keep! He seems to get 12 and Clara and their relationship much better than the others. I really love Capaldi as the Doctor - even though he wasn't in the episode that much, he was really awesome. Especially with his BIg Damn Hero moment at the end. Clara being so annoyingly perfect bugs me sometimes, but I liked her this episode. Their relationship also seems much warmer and much more interesting, like she's trying to understand him and he's trying to understand her but all done with great affection.

[Which Tyler]

WTF of the Week: Clara getting pissy about the Doctor not getting her home at the exact second she ordered him to - um, Clara, have you ever met the Doctor before? You're lucky he got you to the right island on the right day.

Quick question to everyone who keeps bringing up this exact same point.

Have you ever watched The Bells Of Saint John - First episode with this Clara?

 

In that, she refuses to go travelling with the Doctor, and only agrees once he promises that he'll always bring her back to the right spot at the right time.

It's NOT inconsistent to still want to be brought back to the right time and the right spot - even if you have seen the Doctor having difficulty doing that before. It's always been a deal breaker for Clara; remaining a deal breaker means that they're being consistent,not the opposite, as is generally claimed on these boards.

 

 

Oh, and I Don't like defending Clara (or Moffatt), as I do'nt particularly like either of them; but continued criticism that is flat-out wrong bugs me more.

[marceline]

That is absolutely not what he said. In fact when I read that original post, I couldn't understand why anyone would think that was what he said until I read your closed captioning remark. What he said was, "I'm at our bench".

 

That's what my subtitles (Amazon) said.

[HauntedBathroom]

Blimey, that episode was bloody good! This writer can definitely stay.

[truther]

Quick question to everyone who keeps bringing up this exact same point.

Have you ever watched The Bells Of Saint John - First episode with this Clara?

 

In that, she refuses to go travelling with the Doctor, and only agrees once he promises that he'll always bring her back to the right spot at the right time.

It's NOT inconsistent to still want to be brought back to the right time and the right spot - even if you have seen the Doctor having difficulty doing that before. It's always been a deal breaker for Clara; remaining a deal breaker means that they're being consistent,not the opposite, as is generally claimed on these boards.

 

 

Oh, and I Don't like defending Clara (or Moffatt), as I do'nt particularly like either of them; but continued criticism that is flat-out wrong bugs me more.

Yes, and everyone who volunteered to fight for the Union when the Civil War first broke out thought they'd be home by Christmas 1861.  Things change and people have to adapt.  That's the difference between being a grownup and being Clara.  You're of course right to point out what Clara may have thought going in, but frankly it's annoying as heck (to me) to see someone continually put their own petty demands ahead of the actual storyline.  Besides, she loses the right to be consistent on this issue once she gives the Doctor an ultimatum on leaving and then LIES to continue traveling with him. 

 

Having her take a phone call from her boyfriend in the middle of scrambling to safety in the hanging chair, after the policewoman has just been killed in the very same room, is just annoying, consistent with her character or not. 

[Primetimer]

The BBC brass offer Who honcho Steven Moffat some ideas for making Clara a bit less flat.

Read the story

[benteen]

Excellent points about Clara.  Those moments annoyed me but I still think this was Clara's best episode by a mile.

 

Clara is wrong to lie to the Doctor but wouldn't be lying to him if it wasn't for The Doctor's ridiculous, insane, out-of-nowhere hatred for soldiers.  But then again, that storyline is just contrived to create drama.  It's a mess.

[NorthstarATL]

I actually was using closed captioning, although I said "subtitles" (I tend to use the words interchangeably, although they're not quite the same thing.)  I only have the one option on TV broadcasts, although I go for the subtitle option if I'm watching a DVD.

 

I'd always assumed that the captions were fairly accurate --  won't be assuming that anymore!

Sometimes subtitling or closed-captioning, is done from the original script, and therefore changes in the final product are not reflected (changes to the script, flubbed or impromptu lines, and changes in music licensing all can be causes), so they're fairly reliable, but not foolproof.

Edited October 19, 2014 by NorthstarATL

[patchwork]

I have this awful feeling that Missy is the long awaited female Doctor.

 

This new writer definitely needs to stay neither of his episodes have been important to the season arc but they've helped to create a real warmth between Clara and the Doctor without filing down their sharper edges. Also it's nice for Twelve to have more character traits than old and grumpy. His habit of debating with himself is cute. 

 

I want to like Clara because Jenna seems like a nice person and a talented actress doing the best she can with what she's given and episodes like this allow me to do just that. I went in expecting a Clara heavy episode but it didn't feel that way watching it, the focus seemed evenly shared between team Tardis, the episodic companions and the villains. It makes sense that Clara is Eleven-ish when impersonating the Doctor, he's her Doctor like Nine is mine.  

[Llywela]

Quick question to everyone who keeps bringing up this exact same point.

Have you ever watched The Bells Of Saint John - First episode with this Clara?

 

In that, she refuses to go travelling with the Doctor, and only agrees once he promises that he'll always bring her back to the right spot at the right time.

It's NOT inconsistent to still want to be brought back to the right time and the right spot - even if you have seen the Doctor having difficulty doing that before. It's always been a deal breaker for Clara; remaining a deal breaker means that they're being consistent,not the opposite, as is generally claimed on these boards.

I don't think she's being inconsistent, at least not in this regard - she's been plenty inconsistent in other ways. What bothers me is her attitude. She told Danny that travelling with the Doctor is amazing, but we rarely ever actually see her enjoying herself. She so often seems put upon, as if it's such a hardship having to be there, and I find that a downer - it's an attitude that takes this amazing opportunity and turns it into something mundane, bothersome even. It leaves me wondering why she bothers. She's very controlling, very inflexible in her attitude, which I find unappealing - and that attitude, for me, is stifling the show (and the Doctor - I long to see him let loose and have fun with someone who gets him). Basically, her personality type rubs me the wrong way, constantly, and I've spent the entire season trying to put my finger on why, because the concept of really exploring the tension between TARDIS travel versus real life sounds interesting and different on paper, yet the execution really isn't sitting right - so much of how it's been done has felt contrived and artificial and has not reflected well on Clara. There've been plenty of other characters who twitted the Doctor about his false landings or had to be talked into going with him; with some it worked really well, Clara falls into the category where it doesn't, and I think it does boil down to attitude. And perhaps an angle that's been overplayed, heavy-handedly.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Llywela

[Mabinogia]

Having her take a phone call from her boyfriend in the middle of scrambling to safety in the hanging chair, after the policewoman has just been killed in the very same room, is just annoying, consistent with her character or not.

 

 

Yeah, my issue is not that it is inconsistent but that it is fucking annoying. If you hate it that much Clara, don't freaking go! I hate the sense that she is doing the Doctor a favor by going on these fantastical voyages with him. She is like a spoiled brat who wants a candy bar, her parents get her the candy bar she wants, and then she complains that she wanted the bigger one.

 

And it's not so much a Clara issue, for me, as it is that they are hell bent on a part time companion which, IMO, don't work. And this is why. It make her bitching about not being put exactly in the time and place she wants while she is looking at the cutest little TARDIS ever and a Doctor who has no clue what is going on. Really, Clara, where are your priorities? Donna would have forgotten all about getting home on time and thoroughly enjoyed ribbing the Doctor about not knowing something. That, for me, is fun. Clara bitching about not being home in time for her date is annoying.

 

Can't wait for Clara to be over. Don't dislike the actress, quite like her really, don't dislike Clara necessarily, I think the character would work well as anything other than a Companion, just hate this part time companion stuff. Millions of people would love to be in her shoes and she just comes across so burdened and ungrateful for this impossible opportunity.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Mabinogia

[Guest Accused Dingo]

I was bored.

It had nothing to do with it being heavy Clara. I liked Clara and her insight into the Doctor. "This is when you lie."

I just found the episode boring.

[Maelstrom]

I've never seen any of the episodes with Clara and Eleven (except for the Christmas episode with the killer mutant snow goons), so I wasn't aware of that promise to always get her back on time. However, with all of the previous decades of Doctor Who history involving the Doctor missing the time and place he was aiming for (sometimes quite spectacularly), Clara's frustration over the matter will continue to bug me. Unfair on my part, perhaps, I just have no patience for her anymore. Hey, Clara, at least he didn't get you back a year too late when everyone thinks you're dead. Just ask Rose how much that sucked.

[ketose]

This episode was literally the opposite of The Lodger. In that episode, the Doctor was separated from the TARDIS and Amy was trapped inside. Eleven had to act (sort of) like a human for weeks. This time, the Doctor was the man trapped in the box and Clara had to prove she was a terrible Doctor. Actually, this was a lot like the movie Innerspace, but with a less noble human host.

 

The Doctor was very much emulating Ten with "this plane is protected" and wiping out aliens because they didn't take their second chance to run. It was also like the Christmas Invasion in that the companion was able to keep things at bay until the Doctor showed up to actually save everyone. I'm kind of neutral on Mathieson as a writer now and I'm pretty sure Missy is going to be even worse than some of the plotlines so far.

[tarotx]

I haven't seen the episode yet but Clara doesn't travel with the Doctor because she likes it. She does so because first she had always wanted to travel but could never get herself to do it. Things happen and she could never let go of her current life to do what she thought she wanted to do in her head. But the Doctor gave her a way that she could do her real life responsibility and travel as she had dreamed. (Or maybe even as a thing that her and her mom craved together. And Clara's Mom probably did die from the results of the Auton invasion since her grave stone said she died on March 5th 2005. I've always linked the events for some reason).

 

The Doctor is an adrenaline rush. Even though the Adventures aren't really fun for her, they are exhilarating.  I can see where he would be addicting. 

 

Clara needs to find a life she wants to live and live it. Her whole adult life is craving something else. Then again she blew in on a leaf of destiny. To a degree she lives the life she thinks is the life destined for her instead of living the life she is living and enjoying the ride. 

[tv-talk]

This was a great episode in many ways and I like it...aside from the fact at also sucked in the usual ways I've come to expect, however this time to almost comic proportions. Clara as the Doctor? It's just awful, I mean what is that point of that? Other Companions have had their moments when everything relied on them, fate of universe dependent on them pulling through and generally doing things they never thought themselves capable in their 'real' life. Why cant it just have been that? Clara the PERSON saves the day based on having grown thru her travels with Doctor? No, no, no, it had to be that Clara WAS the Doctor and we get beat over the head with a dozen line to that effect. Just give her her own show, seriously, make Clara a Timelord somehow and give her her own series. I mean that's basically where we are anyway.

 

It's a shame too because this episode was a chance to really have Clara shine but instead it was the same old nonsense. Literally no situation phases her AT ALL. It's just utterly ridiculous and boring, at the height of danger facing certain death she is answering the phone to talk to Danny? That was so lame, absolutely cheapens the graveness with which they want you to take the threat. Cant they show her legitimately terrified AND performing well? That would be a great character/companion, instead she isnt bothered by any of it really and the major point we're supposed to now notice is whether she takes Danny's calls or not at any given moment. *YAWN*

 

I guess I can sum this episode up by saying it was really good yet I turned it off about 20mins in when the "Clara is the Doctor" portion started and couldnt be bothered to finish watching til just now.