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S01.E04: Arkham


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As a contentious city council vote on the future of the Arkham district approaches, politicians from both sides are in danger. Gordon and Bullock must race to protect the council and an old friend visits Gordon in the all-new "Arkham" episode of GOTHAM

 

 

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I missed a good chunk tonight but at least Barbara owned up abou Montoya. But exactly what is Fish trying to do with having women seduce her, looking for a willing lackey?

I like the nuggets being planted each week at Bruce's destiny.

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So Oswald was behind the robbery. Of course, he poisons his co-conspirators so he does not have to share.

 

Oh, Barbara, at least she finally told Jim. I can't blame him for keeping his dangerous secrets. 

 

Bruce is so strange and alone in the mansion with Alfred. He is the weirdo child that I always pictured Batman.

 

Fish is a piece of work. She is horrible.

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Man, this was a Sapphic episode. Nothing wrong with that, especially with the political stuff going over my head. I mean . . . both mobs hired the same guy? Really??

 

MrsRafaelBarba . . . maybe there's something in the water that promotes stupidity. It would explain Oswald's gunmen getting excited in getting paid in cannoli. Or Oswald coming back to a place where he already "died" and would get killed again. And yet, I guess I'm a fan of the guy, because I got this sketch of him yesterday. Nothing too fancy . . . I figure that I could start collecting drawings of the Gotham gang. I don't know how to get a Fish sketch, since it would have to show her eating the paper she's drawn on.

 

Speaking of Fish . . . so she's moll-hunting? And "pretend I'm a boy"? Really, Fish?!? I don't think she's been mistaken for a boy . . . ever, actually.

 

Hi, Eddie! Bye, Eddie!

  • Love 2
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Guest Accused Dingo

The way to open any conversation; "Do you like boys or girls?"

This Cobblepot I can see being an evil criminal mastermind. He is slimy but smart and conniving.

Bruce you might stop having nightmares if you put down the murder files. Alfred I lnow you are the servent but you are also the adult, it is alright to say no.

"Everything my parents have worked for has fallen into the hands of criminals."

Edited by Accused Dingo
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Souxsie vs. Echo - and Siouxsie wins! Not sure what was up with both would-be chanteuses doing torch versions of songs by 80s icons ("Spellbound" and "Ocean Rain", respectively) but it was a nice touch. Although the episode-ending catfight was a little questionable.

 

Once again, a fair amount of grisly violence. Maybe not Walking Dead levels of violence, but still. (And if you haven't seen the WD premiere yet, watch for a Gotham cameo at the receiving end of the grislyness.)

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No Walking Dead spoilers! :-)

 

Oswald is really embracing supervillainry.  He's even working green and purple into his suits, with a ruby tie tack.  And Peter Humboldt?

 

Agreed spaceytraci1208, Jim is really confiding too much in Bruce, expecially if he is being more honest with him than his fiancee.

 

Looking at the shooter again in Bruce's nightmare, I see nailpolish and arching eyebrows.  In spite of the massive build of the shooter, I think someone more petite and fond of big jewelry pulled the trigger.

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Given how much Bruce knows about the criminals in Gotham, I can see why it would be difficult to keep information from him.

 

Alfred seems at a loss about how to deal with Bruce. I think that it must be hard for him to discipline or even set boundaries for Bruce after all he has been through.  Losing Thomas Wayne was also painful Alfred who was very close to him.

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How many Gotham ARMED COPS does it take to subdue a guy holding a spike? Answer: Two. One ARMED COP (by himself, and expecting an attack at any moment) simply isn't enough (he'll get startled and drop his gun).

Lame, writers.

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That was some super-sized Previously we got to kick off this packed hour!

 

"Nobody looks for a dead man"; no, Oswald, not when they don't go around wearing their signature style in public! ::rolls eyes::

 

Still love Fish's wardrobe! If I could get away with wearing half Fish's outfits, I would. (Asking her permission first, natch. ;D )

 

26 blocks (or square blocks?) in the heart of town had been dedicated to an asylum? There needs to be a better city zoning board. (I know the mayor was trying to appease the mobsters, but what the hell with a waste disposal site in the middle of town and that close to low-income housing?! I believe there are federal laws against that.)

 

Ed! You and your paradoxes, Mr. Nygma, are going to end up on the wrong side of Det. Bullock one day, sooner than later. Stick with asking Gordon. He's barely more receptive.

 

"I really did vote for you." One of the funniest lines of the night. Up there with "Only in Gotham", from Harvey. Dude, there's a place on the West Coast that might beg to differ after the last two summers. *g*  You guys may have the more insidious and outright psychotic, Harvey, but Starling City has had it's share of criminal outsizeness.

 

Glad Barbara pushed some on the murder accusation, but she didn't explain why she was concerned. Jim, rightfully, doesn't want to bring her into a very complicated mess. Unfortunately, they both have points, but I may side with Barb on knowing what's up with Cobblepot. Harvey spelled it out pretty plainly, so keeping Barbara ignorant of the danger she is still in is paternalistic bs and naïve hope. On the other hand, I am glad Barbara stood her ground on getting truth from Jim. Unfortunately, she got him in hat water at work, so Jim has reason to not completely trust her.  Is...is that characterization I see? *g*  ( As long as Jim actually levels about Oswald/Peter, I'll be okay. Keeping hard truths hardly ever work out, so tell her Jim! Don't be an asshat about that.)

 

I was disappointed in "Richard Gladwell" seeming to be really most sincerely dead. Arrow kills off their intriguing, smart villains for the most part and hoped that this gadgeteer would escape for at least one more episode.  I echo everyone else's facepalm at the really stupid bodyguard.

 

At the headlight fight, I realized just how hard the music biz is. At least in Gotham.

 

Now Ossie's killing with food rather than for food; is that better?

 

Lastly, Jim? The 70s called and wanted their sideburns back. I know they look nice on you, and it fits the town. Just passing a message along.

 

Previews: Good night,nurse!  Shit looks as if it will be getting real.

 

PS: ::waves at David Zayas! Love you!::

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The job market in Gotham must be ruff if two girls are willing to beat each other to death for a job without question. So Fish was looking for a girl to seduce Falcone right?

 

Must say I love her outfits every week. Just the right amount of sexy and dark yet not too overt.

 

I would have a problem with Barbara demanding to know Gordan's secrets if he didn't turn around and tell Bruce important information constantly. 

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Am I the only one who enjoyed this episode tonight?

Not at all.  I liked it too, certainly a lot more than last week.  Bruce and Alfred continue to seem like such filler though.  I don't know where they are supposed to fit into the main narrative, especially if the show stands by its decision to never make this show about Batman.  Penguin claims three more lives as his serial killer streak continues.  Fish engaging in lesbo moments to find a "weapon" was eyebrow raising.  What kind of weapon is she seeking by telling other girls to seduce her?

Edited by Syndicate
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But exactly what is Fish trying to do with having women seduce her, looking for a willing lackey?

She wants the new singer to seduce Falcone and kill/bring him down.

I am amused that in Gotham universe, typewriters, CRT monitors and cellphones are in regular usage at the same time.

Will we ever get to see Alfred sit down?

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I don't think I can keep watching this show. I've tried but it is so dull! Barbara needs to get a job. She spends all of her time worrying about her man. I find her character to be extremely thin. Gordon's super power seems to be that he pays attention and actually cares. Why does anyone want to live in a city so absurdly corrupt?

 

I'm sick of Penguin and his endless smirking.

 

Gordon really needs to stop consulting the grieving pre-teen about police matters. It is weird. Gordon doesn't know that Bruce is going to be Batman, why is he constantly seeking this child's counsel.

 

Beyond the fact that I find this show boring, Fish Mooney has really killed it for me.  Jada Pinkett Smith is chewing the scenery in every scene. Who talks like that? No one would let her rise up in the ranks of their criminal organization. Her speech patterns are affected and she is batshit crazy. They seem to throw in Crazy Fish scenes in every episodes.

 

Out of all the comic book shows out right now, this is the worst. That's right, I think this is worse than Agents of Shield. The only thing that could make this better is if a bunch of walkers shambled in to town and ate almost everyone. The Walking Dead: Gotham might actually be more interesting.

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Yeah, the bodyguard was the worst.  Why in the hell would you just take some random guy who shows up in a dark parking lot at his word, and put anything that close to your eye?  Worst bodyguard ever!  Runner-up goes to Oswald's crew, because anytime your a criminal, and another criminal offers you food without taking any for himself, usually something bad is going to happen.  Just saying.

 

Oswald sure is moving up in the world.  Thanks to his little trick, he's now been promoted to restaurant manager, and continues to curry favor with Maroni.  I'm sure he'll be an "excellent" manager.  No skipped shifts, bad service, or coming in late, with him in charge!  That said, rude customers might want to find somewhere else to eat...

 

Case of the week wasn't all that interesting, although I did like how it played into the current Falcone/Maroni feud. I do think that has potential; especially with whatever roles Oswald and Fish will play.  Yeah, I'm guessing Fish was looking for someone to seduce and maybe kill Falcone, but I'm sure the main reason was to let Jada dine on more scenery, and get even more lesbian kissing.

 

Barbara tells Jim the truth about her past relationship with Montoya, but he's still refusing to tell her anything, so now, they have problems.  Maybe you should try some kind of half-truth, Jim.  Say that Oswald was so low level thug, who provided you info on a case, so you got him out of town, for his own protection.  But, if you keep this a secret, your relationship will only get worse.

 

The Bruce/Alfred stuff was back to being filler, despite Sean Pertwee still bringing it.  I'm more curious about what Selina's up too.

 

Careful, Nigma.  You might not live long enough to become The Riddler, at this pace.  One more snarky remark, and Bullock might be taking you to a special pier...

 

Eh, not my favorite, but I'm still patient.  Maybe I'm more lenient, since it got picked up for a full season, so they have more time to work out the kinks.  Hey, if Agents of Shield can actually be kind of good now, anything is possible!

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Jim was stupid not to tell Barbara about Oswald, especially when he paid a visit.  Still, Oswald was all kinds of awesome again.

 

I liked the hitman but the fact that he could be so easily found didn't do him any favors.

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26 blocks (or square blocks?) in the heart of town had been dedicated to an asylum? There needs to be a better city zoning board. (I know the mayor was trying to appease the mobsters, but what the hell with a waste disposal site in the middle of town and that close to low-income housing?! I believe there are federal laws against that.)

 

The way I understood it, it's the Arkham District that covers an area of 26 blocks. The District is probably named after the Asylum, it's most prominent landmark. As to the federal regulations, I expect that plenty of bribes will clean any obstructions in that regard.

 

But can somebody with knowledge of US real state practices please explain to me how is Falcone going to make money out of low income housing? Wouldn’t it make more sense to start building luxury condos?

 

The job market in Gotham must be ruff if two girls are willing to beat each other to death for a job without question.

 

The craziest thing is that the first singer caught on almost instantaneously and started to remove her earrings right away, so it means that this sort of thing isn’t at all surprising to someone from Gotham.

 

She wants the new singer to seduce Falcone and kill/bring him down.

 

This is something I quite liked, because it shows that when Fish had Falcone’s mistress killed last episode (or was it the one before?), it wasn’t just petty revenge; it was actually part of a carefully considered plan. This shows that Mooney isn’t just some crazy psycho with self-control issues, she can actually plan ahead.

 

Although, if I was Mooney, I would’ve held off on rubbing out Falcone’s previous girl until I had the replacement ready.

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Although I agree with the facepalm for the bodyguard, this was on hella violent episode. 

 

Low income housing means (IRL, anyway) the government basically pays you to build it in tax credits; that's why it's also called tax credit housing.  You get big bucks for something like 20 years for being willing to do it. 

 

I think Barbara's gone...girl gone.  Jim did nothing to stop her from leaving and I thought that was the end of that.  Somehow, he seems to think he "owes" Bruce Wayne - from when he gave the kid his badge on.  Not sure why but it's part of the mythos and I get that's why he's telling the kid stuff.  Plus it makes more sense just to tell him, (and grow him as Batman) than to have him trying to find info out and probably getting hurt in the crossfire.

 

I kept HOPING that mob boss would NOT tell Oswald he walked or looked like a penguin!  Thank heavens.

 

eta:  I love the Jada outfits but the oddly bluish green eyeshadow clashes so badly with the red hair, it's beyond distracting and not a good look for her. Why not gold?!

Edited by Jlina
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Am I the only one who enjoyed this episode tonight?

Personally, I've enjoyed each episode so far, to one degree or another. 

 

The series as a whole hasn't clicked for me, yet, but there's a lot to like about it (for me). I just hope it finds its footing sooner, rather than later.

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The way I understood it, it's the Arkham District that covers an area of 26 blocks. The District is probably named after the Asylum, it's most prominent landmark. As to the federal regulations, I expect that plenty of bribes will clean any obstructions in that regard.

 

But can somebody with knowledge of US real state practices please explain to me how is Falcone going to make money out of low income housing? Wouldn’t it make more sense to start building luxury condos?

 

The budget for the low income houses is probably going to be low, but he probably stands to make a huge profit from construction contracts because he probably owns the company (or at least has his hand in that pot). He also gets control of a valuable piece of city land, which I'm sure he'll use for something else at some point when he pushes all the poor people out. It's all corruption, all the time.

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I had to go check to see who was the director of this episode; he had a really interesting style of shooting. Lots of close-ups at angles that also highlighted the backgrounds. Nice use of lighting, too. However, there were two scenes that took me out of the episode. The first was Oswald calling Gordon from a payphone that could only be located on a rooftop --payphones are NOT on rooftops! And the second was the downpour happening in full, midday sunlight outside the Mayor's house. (Yes, I know about sunshowers) They could have saved a few bucks; rain wasn't needed in that scene.

 

So Oswald really is going to be killing people each episode; got it, show.

 

I did not need to see someone got impaled in the eye so early in the episode; or you know, EVER. (And it was the councilman's aide/assistant, not his bodyguard.)

 

I'm glad there was no Montoya/Allen/Selina here. They needed to pare down the per episode cast.

 

Now it looks like Jim and Barbara might break up, and I was about to be annoyed at more relationship angst/whatever, but then I thought maybe this is a good thing. The actress hasn't really impressed me , and her character barely has anything to do. I'm impressed that Jim found out out about the Barb/Reneé relationship so soon, though. (I figured they'd drag that out a bit more.) And even though Barbara shared one secret, I agree with Gordon about not telling her about Cobblepot. I think it's more dangerous for her and Gordon if she gets tangled up in the situation.

 

As for Fish, the "two of you fight it out for the one job" thing is straight out of The Dark Knight, isn't it? Yeah, Mooney's this show's version of the Joker (crazy, smart, flamboyant villain).

Must say I love her outfits every week. Just the right amount of sexy and dark yet not too overt.

  I like her outfits, too; but we may have to disagree about the "not too overt" part.  ;-)

 

  "Everything my parents have worked for has fallen into the hands of criminals."
    The Bruce/Alfred stuff was back to being filler,

 

I don't think it was filler. I think we got one more reason for Bruce to eventually become a vigilante: fulfill his parents legacy. (I may not have phrased that right... it's late) And the plot showed how --in one way at least-- the death of the Waynes could affect the whole city's future. I've always wondered about that. And they this episode also introduced the idea that the Arkham project may be connected to why the Waynes were killed.

 

They need to tone down the violence, though. (Probably not going to happen.)
 

 

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Arkham Asylum looked liked it was ripped straight from the pages of the comics.  They really have the look of Gotham nailed down.  I think their idea to use CGI to "Batman-ify" New York City is working really well. 

 

So Penguin now has his restaurant.  Is there a name change to "The Iceberg Lounge" coming up?

 

I don't think it was filler. I think we got one more reason for Bruce to eventually become a vigilante: fulfill his parents legacy. (I may not have phrased that right... it's late) And the plot showed how --in one way at least-- the death of the Waynes could affect the whole city's future. I've always wondered about that. And they this episode also introduced the idea that the Arkham project may be connected to why the Waynes were killed.
 
I think more than that, it shows Bruce starting his journey to become "The World's Greatest Detective".  Punching bad guys in the face is only one part of Batman.  His real 'superpower' is his almost unparalleled investigative skills.
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Brilliant episode. Gladwell made for an interesting hitman character.

Interesting power play display between Falcone and Maroni over control of Gotham as well this week. Not surprised one of them ended up getting control of sorts over the place.

Oswald continues to bring it, character wise. He's a very slippery little Penguin who's chalking up the body count, isn't he?

Fish is a brutal task master as well, getting two girls to literally fight each other for a spot in her club. I do find her and Bullock's rapport interesting though.

Gordon did some good detective work here too and I liked his scenes with Bruce and Alfred this week. Was less keen on the stuff with him and Barbara though.

Nice that Barbara left her apartment this week but she still needs a bit more to do. As does Essen.

Nygma has a way of emphasising his words too.

No Selina, Falcone, Montoya or Allen in this one I noticed, 8/10

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And with this episode the road has been paved for Ace Chemicals.

 

With this episode being about Arkham, I was expecting Hugo Strange to pop up supporting opening Arkham.

 

I liked this episode, but I will say that music at the beginning when Gladwell is going after the councilman, sounded a lot like someone just changing a few notes from "My Enemy" from The Amazing Spider-Man 2.

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<<Am I the only one who enjoyed this episode tonight?>>

 

Nope.  I liked it.  I think I'm the only one who is liking the series as a whole.  I like the look and feel of it and I find the villains interesting.  The Penguin is deliciously demented and works for me.  And you know who else works for me?  Fish.  I think I GET the character that Jada is portraying.   That's also why her audition last night made sense to me.  "Do you like boys or girls?"  "Pretend I'm a boy."  There was no sex in this, she wants a woman who knows how to truly manipulate a man and being able to do so means separating yourself from desire in favor of your agenda.  It's all acting.  And that is what Fish is all about - acting.  Artifice.  From her wig, to her long fake nails, to her affectation.  That's not the real person. That affected speech is just a put on - underneath it she is just a thug: mean and ghetto and conniving.  It's like she acts like what SHE thinks a lady should act like so that she can keep her eye on the men.  The person underneath is far more threatening.  Also I've decided that a little bit "cartoonish" is apropos for source material that will feature villains dressed up in costumes and such.

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I like this show.  There's something just a little different - a little off (in a good way) - about it.  Maybe it's the stylized visuals or maybe it's the characters who are just all a little strange looking.  So far, I think that Gordon and Oswald are the MVPs of this show, with honorable mentions to Bruce and Selina.

 

At first, Gordon's partnership with Bullock was the most interesting relationship on this show because I think, over time, Gordon will end up getting his hands a little dirty as he is influenced by Bullock, while Bullock will end up doing a few good things as he is influenced by Gordon.  But now, Gordon's relationship with Oswald is the most interesting relationship on this show.  Gordon cannot trust Oswald but he cannot reveal his presence in Gotham either because he was supposed to have killed him.  On Oswald's part, it would be interesting if he really did feel gratitude to Gordon and really did want to help him save the city (in his own evil, twisted way).

 

When I first heard the premise of this show being about the young Jim Gordon, I was skeptical.  But now I'm intrigued by the story of how Gordon managed to stay a (relatively) good cop in such a corrupt city for so many years and why he would be willing to help a law-breaking vigilante like Batman.  Ben Mackenzie is great at portraying Gordon.  When he was making small talk with Oswald in front of Barbara, his eyes were sending different messages and conveyed what he was feeling.  When he pushed Oswald up against the wall, his repressed violence demonstrated the desperation of a man who knows he's walking a tightrope.

 

Oswald is by far the most intriguing villain on this show.  He is just so devious and manipulative and evil, and played so well by Robin Lord Taylor.  Fish Mooney is so OTT that it's sometimes hard to take her seriously.  Falcone and Mulroney are just ciphers at this point.

 

Oh Barbara, giving ultimatums rarely helps a relationship.  I'm glad Gordon stood his ground.  He wants to protect her and not make her an accomplice to his possibly criminal actions - or have any of the corruption at his workplace touch her.  He also doesn't completely trust her now that she's revealed her secret about Montoya.  Have we ever seen Barbara work or do anything other than hang around the apartment?  Maybe she'll move out now and get a life.

 

I didn't have a problem with Gordon talking to Bruce.  The issue involved the Wayne parents' proposal for Arkham.

 

Yay, no appearance by the Major Crimes team.

 

I'm not sure that Gladwell was hired by Falcone and Mulroney.  He was killed so he can't say.  I think someone else might have hired him, in order to start the mob war.

Edited by tv echo
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This show is really great.  I'm super worried about it long term, because of the 22 episodes per season thing (doesn't quality always suffer in long seasons?), but this episode was great and I feel really good about this show so far.  And hey, 22 episodes of this, if done well, will be great.

I know there is a lot of consternation about Barbara always being in the same place, and to some degree I share it.  The female characters, for the most part, need a broader dynamic.  But, it's only episode 4.  Whatever the plan is for Barbara and Montoya, I wouldn't worry too much about their arcs being kind of, mmm, limited(?) through the first few episodes.  In fact, my guess is that the fight that her and Jim just had is critical to her story arc, whatever that is.  It could end up being lame/boring but I'm fine being patient with it.  With an ensemble cast, and I think to keep the overarching story interesting without forcing things, some characters will have more or less interesting plots at any time.  Or they should.  

 

I'm not a huge fan of Mackenzie in this but he's doing a good job and i'm in.  I like the little tidbits of Bruce and Alfred that we get.  And I like that they didn't try to force Selina back into the story line right now.  She got free for a bit and she's a sneaky kid.  Her being on the down low right this moment is fitting.  For now.

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When that guy. put that object near his eyeball, willingly...

FACEPALM

 

Oh, man, that was annoying. And also reeeehhheeally gross.

 

Speaking of Fish . . . so she's moll-hunting? And "pretend I'm a boy"? Really, Fish?!? I don't think she's been mistaken for a boy . . . ever, actually.

 

I get that Fish is looking for a moll to seduce and destroy Falcone, but why is Falcone going to care whether his new chickie kissed a girl and liked it? The "pretend I'm a boy" scene as well as the girl-fighting by headlights was just exploitative and stupid. Pinkett-Smith is already eating her way through the scenery budget without making Fish into the proprietress of Club Thunderdome.

 

I also don't buy that Pokey the Hitman was so blindingly (oops) professional that both sides hired him unbeknownst to the other. I kept waiting for a development that a third party (not Oswald, yet) put him into the mix to destabilize the situation. Nope: just lucky, I guess.

 

Also: Bullock continues to be really terrible at his job: his method of working a case consists of leaning on his sources (chiefly Fish, whom he must owe massively by this time) or beating people up. Of course, he does keep having to save Jim's ass once a week, so I guess we need to keep him around.

 

ETA: Is it just me, or does Mayor Richard Kind look shadier every week? (Low-income housing and waste disposal in the same 26-block district? Is that really likely? I kind of like the idea that Arkham District -- and the asylum named after it -- are kind of being set up as the soul of Gotham this early in the game, but all the characters are going to have to start getting a whole lot smarter, or I can't hang with the show.)

Edited by Sandman
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Maybe it was Maroni, but it seemed the Jim and Bullock were content to surmise that the hitman was working both ends, and I don't recall either of them revising their theory to suggest Maroni was behind it all. I could be wrong.

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I get that Fish is looking for a moll to seduce and destroy Falcone, but why is Falcone going to care whether his new chickie kissed a girl and liked it?

He wouldn't, necessarily. But as someone said upthread, that was more for Molly the Moll than Falcone. If she's going to seduce and kill an old guy she barely knows, she needs to be comfortable with getting out of her comfort zone. That's why it was important that she wasn't naturally into "girls," because kissing another woman would be foreign to her.

 

I also thought it rang a bit false that the eventual winner of that cat-fight was the one less quick on the uptake. I'd have had her be the one to start removing earrings, high heels etc. and the other one to be more perplexed. She seemed a bit more killer-instinct, a bit more native Gothamite than the other. IMO it would have flowed better that way. I don't know if they wanted her to be so BAMF that they decided that even if she wasn't immediately going for the jugular she'd win in a fight, but I feel like it undercut the character we were being shown. Props to the actress for doing a good amount with just a little screen-time, though.

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