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S05.E13: Give The World Away

Snazzy Daisy

By Snazzy Daisy
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Lonesome Rhodes

Lonesome Rhodes

I loved this ep.

Sure, the beauty shots and the shows/sales didn't do much for the story, but it was a fitting goodbye to that life.

I adore Travis.  His code is better than John Dutton's ever was.  He made his deal with the Devil and he does not apologize, same as John.  Very much like Beth, he does have a very limited redeeming side.  

I hope the "solution" closes the circle of the Dutton's and the Confederated Tribes.  This would be a phenomenal way for the series to go out. 

Jamie's "solution" is entirely unworkable because he could never claim jurisdiction away from the Helena P.D. and from Kayce's badge.  More importantly, he would never have the stones to actually carry out the various deceptions.  He'd also be impeached so fast that even Beth's Bentley couldn't match it.  

Teeter's verbal assault on the bar dude was epic.  It was all kinds of wrong, but it actually was right.  Atta girl.

I'm pretty darn sure that there is no actual way for the Dutton sibs and Tate to walk away with any real assets/cash.   The gargantuan debt remains, whomever ends up with it.  But, I'm perfectly willing to suspend disbelief.

This final hurrah was magnificent, and in its many flaws, beautiful.

 

 

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MDL

MDL

Disclaimer: I didn't see all of the ep. busy night here,but her are a few comments/questions based on what I did see:

Travis came across as a hedonistic self indulgent pig, but could be a help to his friend Rip. (nice background story re Travis and Rip). Did Travis actually show up for the auction?

Were we supposed to know the man that Beth spoke to (he was on the couch, observing the action).

Loved the memorial tribute to John and Colby. Riderless horses, a classic.

Loved Beth trying to help Teeter.

Beth's "at the bar emasculating of the creep", as we have seen her do before, was typically over the top. Teeter's attempt to do the same (at Beth's prompting), but in her own way, was funny yet sad.

After the memorial service, when Teeter entered the horse barn alone, then the bunk house, also alone: did anyone else fear that she was going to commit suicide?

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Blondie

Blondie

I have to question Kayce's solution to  their  problem.   Earlier in the season or maybe it was the first half of the season John was talking to the now senator Lynel about land values and unrealized gains in values/taxes they would have to pay.  Now Kayce puts the "plan" in Beth's head.  The surrounding  ground values owned by others and used for the same things remain at true market value.  It would only save 1 year of taxes.  They still  have to  pay  for the previous year.  If the land is sold to the reservation which I assume is a non taxable entity (kind of like a church) the tax liability  ends.  However in order to keep using said land some type of a lease or stipulation would have to be made so that the Duttons could not only stay on the land but continue to operate as if they still  owned it.  If that is the case wouldn't it fall under the category of non taxable property being used in a manner not related to the  purpose of the reservation?  Which in turn puts it back into the taxable category?  Thomas Rainwater has already said it's  unaffordable.

(For example, a church is exempted from taxes if used for religious purposes, and also builds a school, parking lots, playgrounds , all used for the benefit of the religious organization  which is now tax exempt.  Then it is gifted or sold  a dollar a parcel of land.  This parcel it to remain leased to the original owner to continue  using it as they have done for many years.  That parcel is then taxed based on fair market value like it was before.  The church is  responsible for those taxes and it becomes a liability and burden to their organization. ( which few churches want to shoulder).)  

Or maybe Montana has a different tax structure. 

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Blondie

Blondie

And another thing.   At the auction  all the equipment was sold.  They even showed  old wagons being sold off.  One of the biggest assets and coincidentally liabilities was the helicopter which should have  doubled the check they got.  

And unless Beth and or Kayce was the executor of the estate they didn't have the  right to sell anything. 

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FnkyChkn34

FnkyChkn34

24 minutes ago, Blondie said:

And another thing.   At the auction  all the equipment was sold.  They even showed  old wagons being sold off.  One of the biggest assets and coincidentally liabilities was the helicopter which should have  doubled the check they got.  

And unless Beth and or Kayce was the executor of the estate they didn't have the  right to sell anything. 

We haven't seen that helicopter since Season 1, have we?  I assume that it's long gone.  Also, as for selling the business assets, I would assume that the ranch is incorporated, and wasn't all part of John Dutton's personal estate.  Beth and Rip run the "business."  

I think the answer is Tate.  He's the beneficiary of the trust, and Kayce is the trustee (if I'm remembering correctly).  Tate is also half Native American.  If Tate owns it, as a Native American, he could still claim is as tax-exempt?  I don't know for sure, but that's my guess.

My problem with Kayce's "solution" is that he asked Beth about sales taxes.  As far as I know, real estate transfer taxes and property taxes don't work that way.  But, turning it over to become a Native American reservation could be the answer.  Tate is only 16 - will it actually be to Monica?  

It's nice to see Kayce be the one to figure it out and not always Beth, Beth, Beth...

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Madding crowd

Madding crowd

I see they are trying to redeem Beth now and we got an episode without her physically beating up anyone. I think a 40 year old woman whose hobby is picking fights with tourists is rather sad. I did like the memorial part and the music. Taylor Sheridan always looks so smug. I thought the show was ending but since they said season finale I guess not.

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Medicine Crow

Medicine Crow

9 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I loved this ep.

Sure, the beauty shots and the shows/sales didn't do much for the story, but it was a fitting goodbye to that life.

I adore Travis.  His code is better than John Dutton's ever was.  He made his deal with the Devil and he does not apologize, same as John.  Very much like Beth, he does have a very limited redeeming side.  

I hope the "solution" closes the circle of the Dutton's and the Confederated Tribes.  This would be a phenomenal way for the series to go out. 

Jamie's "solution" is entirely unworkable because he could never claim jurisdiction away from the Helena P.D. and from Kayce's badge.  More importantly, he would never have the stones to actually carry out the various deceptions.  He'd also be impeached so fast that even Beth's Bentley couldn't match it.  

Teeter's verbal assault on the bar dude was epic.  It was all kinds of wrong, but it actually was right.  Atta girl.

I'm pretty darn sure that there is no actual way for the Dutton sibs and Tate to walk away with any real assets/cash.   The gargantuan debt remains, whomever ends up with it.  But, I'm perfectly willing to suspend disbelief.

This final hurrah was magnificent, and in its many flaws, beautiful.

 

 

Wish I could see the actual dialogue of Teeter & Beth's put-down of the guys!!

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CrazyInAlabama

CrazyInAlabama

It did establish that selling everything raised $30 million, enough to pay the taxes for one year, so that gave us Kayce planning to sell to Rainwater and the Confederated Tribes, with a lease back for part of the main ranch, leaving his East Camp ranch house.  

It also showed Jimmy settled, and Ryan meeting his old girlfriend, and if they marry he can get a job at 4 Sixes Ranch (they only have married cowboys).  

 

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bunnyface

bunnyface

4 hours ago, MDL said:

Were we supposed to know the man that Beth spoke to (he was on the couch, observing the action).

He's been on a few of the 6666 episodes.  The last one I remember was when he rode off and left Jimmy to catch up.  He was on a few before that also.

2 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Taylor Sheridan's narcissism is getting unbearable.

Dude, nobody cares about Travis Wheatley (Yellowstone), Cody Spears (Lioness), Charles Goodnight (1883) etc. Your acting talent is below par.

 

I didn't watch 1883 because I didn't have Paramount +.  I would have certainly been interested in Charles Goodnight, but not if played by Sheridan.  That would have ruined a good character.  

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KittyQ

KittyQ

3 hours ago, Blondie said:

And unless Beth and or Kayce was the executor of the estate they didn't have the  right to sell anything. 

This! They haven't even buried John, and no one has talked about his will or trust or who the executor or trustee is. From personal experience, I know that when someone dies, their accounts, etc. are no longer able to be used - they have to be moved to estate or trust accounts. The executor is responsible for paying debts and distributing assets, etc. Maybe Beth and Kayce will get away with this by using the proceeds to pay taxes, but this isn't the way that things should get done. I'm also not sure what the big rush was to sell everything. Sure there are taxes, but talking with the tax authorities could allow them to work on a payment schedule. 

Every week, they make Jamie dumber and dumber. What was with him whining to his ex "I don't know what to do"? He's not 12! He has authority and power, although you'd never know it by this behavior. Now there's another woman telling him what to do and how to do it. The slow-moving character assassination of Jamie is almost as aggravating to me as the strange approval of Beth's immature and sociopathic behavior. 

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Winston Wolfe

Winston Wolfe

(edited)
5 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I think the answer is Tate.  He's the beneficiary of the trust, and Kayce is the trustee (if I'm remembering correctly).  Tate is also half Native American.  If Tate owns it, as a Native American, he could still claim is as tax-exempt?  I don't know for sure, but that's my guess.

My problem with Kayce's "solution" is that he asked Beth about sales taxes.  As far as I know, real estate transfer taxes and property taxes don't work that way.  But, turning it over to become a Native American reservation could be the answer.  Tate is only 16 - will it actually be to Monica?  

It's nice to see Kayce be the one to figure it out and not always Beth, Beth, Beth...

I think some of the posters are on the right track here. In the end, the Ranch goes to the tribe with Tate having some rights/shared ownership over the property. Also, as a nonprofit, the Tribe should be eligible for all kinds of grants to make the land sustainable. Maybe turn it into a national park or something?

Edited by Winston Wolfe
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spacefly

spacefly

5 hours ago, Blondie said:

(For example, a church is exempted from taxes if used for religious purposes, and also builds a school, parking lots, playgrounds , all used for the benefit of the religious organization  which is now tax exempt.  Then it is gifted or sold  a dollar a parcel of land.  This parcel it to remain leased to the original owner to continue  using it as they have done for many years.  That parcel is then taxed based on fair market value like it was before.  The church is  responsible for those taxes and it becomes a liability and burden to their organization. ( which few churches want to shoulder).)  

They may still be able to preserve land and still work the land. If the Tribe is not receiving undo benefit by letting the Duttons use the land in a way it was traditionally known to be used they might get away with it. It is along the lines of hunting/trapping being allowed by traditional subsistence users in National Parks. I am still not sure why the Conservation Easement was never executed I also do not know what the laws pertaining to tribal land are in the Lower 48 and undo benefit. This is all speculation. Maybe some land can be donated to the BLM or NPS? Who knows what type of crazy scenario they will dream up.

roughing it

roughing it

(edited)
8 hours ago, Msample said:

The self indulgent Sheridan couldn’t resist having more screen time for himself. Pathetic, esp with only one episode left.

He's a pig.

There are a lot of loose ends to tie up and only 1 episode remaining to do that.  But almost half of this episode is dedicated to foul Travis (Sheridan) and his show ponies.  I don't need to see any more spinning horses.  And I certainly won't be watching 6666 if it ever comes to air.

Edited by roughing it
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Moose135

Moose135

6 hours ago, js9548 said:

Again season finale not series finale

That's what the promos say, 'One episode until the season finale' but beyond various rumors about spinoffs, there has been no indication that Yellowstone will continue into another season. And if we do get one, it will probably be another three years before we see it.

 

6 hours ago, Blondie said:

Or maybe Montana has a different tax structure. 

I think Sheridanville has its own tax structure...

 

5 hours ago, Blondie said:

At the auction  all the equipment was sold.  They even showed  old wagons being sold off.

GF commented that they're selling off all the props before the end of the show.

 

5 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I think a 40 year old woman whose hobby is picking fights with tourists is rather sad.

I think the first time she did it, it was sort of amusing, but repeating it several times over the course of the series got tiring. I did think this was good, if only because it brought us Teeter's bizarre encounter with that guy.

 

2 hours ago, KittyQ said:

The slow-moving character assassination of Jamie is almost as aggravating to me as the strange approval of Beth's immature and sociopathic behavior. 

Yes, I hate what Sheridan has done to Jamie's character. He is a Harvard-trained lawyer, took care of the ranch's business, and is the fucking Attorney General, but he has been turned into a whining, sniveling, child.

 

1 hour ago, Winston Wolfe said:

Maybe turn it into a national park or something?

They could call it Yellowstone Natio...oh, wait. 😄

 

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Lonesome Rhodes

Lonesome Rhodes

3 hours ago, KittyQ said:

This! They haven't even buried John, and no one has talked about his will or trust or who the executor or trustee is. From personal experience, I know that when someone dies, their accounts, etc. are no longer able to be used - they have to be moved to estate or trust accounts. The executor is responsible for paying debts and distributing assets, etc. Maybe Beth and Kayce will get away with this by using the proceeds to pay taxes, but this isn't the way that things should get done. I'm also not sure what the big rush was to sell everything. 

I'm pretty sure John made Beth Executor and made her swear that everything left, if anything, would go to Tate.  

The haste was due to the Guv's plans to seize everything he could, with the Assembly's approval, by removing any protections JD may have managed to wrangle.  It was a matter of days, IIRC.  Market Equities was not playing, either.  They were already building out some land (not sure who most recently owned said land).

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Winston Wolfe

Winston Wolfe

1 hour ago, Moose135 said:
6 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I think a 40 year old woman whose hobby is picking fights with tourists is rather sad.

I think the first time she did it, it was sort of amusing, but repeating it several times over the course of the series got tiring. I did think this was good, if only because it brought us Teeter's bizarre encounter with that guy.

Beth's picture can be found in the Dictionary next to the phrase "Hurt people hurt other people," or alternately, "misery loves company."

I'm glad Beth decided her own special pathology doesn't work with Teeter, the young lady is ok as she is. If the show were to continue, I'd rather see Teeter bond with Monica.

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FnkyChkn34

FnkyChkn34

Isn't the land in a family trust where Tate is the beneficiary?  That's different than the trustee.  The trustee manages the assets of the estate for the benefit of the beneficiary.  Beth is the trustee.

I think that the operations of the ranch (buying and selling cattle and horses, paying the ranch hands, etc.) have to be in an incorporated entity, and the land is in the family trust.  The corporation operates on the land, with or without a formal lease or paying rent.  The family trust is most likely the owner of the company and therefore receives all profits.  

If my assumptions are correct, then Beth has the ability to... do whatever she wants.  Kayce, as Tate's legal guardian, would have the ability to accuse her of mismanagement or wasting the assets of the trust, if she were doing that - but they are working together at this point as a family in the best interests of everyone.  

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chick binewski

chick binewski

On 12/8/2024 at 8:48 PM, mythoughtis said:

And now the love fest  between Rip and Travis.   Is this story about Yellowstone or its writer?  

Rip - who barely smiles or talks of his past and speaks in two sentence cowboy wisdom - gives a long yet lighthearted monologue about a really awesome tough guy. Beth - who has literally fought off rapist assassins and major corporations, never showing a flutter of intimidation - is cowed to the point of being almost demure by same really awesome tough guy. 

My prediction is in four years Taylor Sheridan will run for president and the hosts of Morning Joe will fully support his candidacy. 

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TVbitch

TVbitch

I did not know the Travis guy was Taylor Sheridan. What a smug asshat. I guess he is living his cowboy fantasy. He certainy doesn't try to hide how he values women. Half-nude buckle bunnies aside, our heroines are the saintly pure Monica, who always trusts and abides by Kayce, even when he's keeping her in the dark. She believes in him, and is always hot to fuck her man. Then there's the sexy hellcat Beth, who can hang with the boys and is up for a fight, but only gets  bruises that enhance her cheekbones. And, of course, she's always hot to fuck her man. 

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Cool Breeze

Cool Breeze

I wonder if John was aware of the prophecy/prediction that the ranch would go back to the Native Americans in seven generations and that's why he was furious with Kayce for impregnating and marrying a Native woman?

(Of course, he loves Tate now that he's here but when he was just an idea?  Maybe not so much.)

And thinking back on the conversation between Kayce and Tate, where Kayce asked him if he wants the ranch to be his life?  Yeah, seems as if that's where this is going.

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blackwing

blackwing

As stated by others, it does seem obvious that Rainwater and the tribe will be involved in the solution.  Not sure how it will all work out, but even if the Duttons get to keep everything, there's nothing left.  All the horses were sold, all the equipment was sold.  Maybe it won't be a working ranch anymore?  They could turn it into a dude ranch and just do entertainment.  Beth won't like the influx of tourists onto the family land, but it's better than not having the land at all.

On 12/8/2024 at 7:25 PM, mythoughtis said:

Two episodes left,  and we get Travis playing strip poker with buckle bunnies. And having a pool party.  I’m so disappointed in this season. And now strip poker with Beth.  

On 12/9/2024 at 5:57 AM, Msample said:

The self indulgent Sheridan couldn’t resist having more screen time for himself. Pathetic, esp with only one episode left.

I have grown to loathe this guy so much.  So narcissistic, has to write himself into every show.  And every time I turn around, a new Taylor Sheridan show pops up on Paramount like a pimple on a teenaged boy.  I vow not to watch "6666" or "Landman".  I don't care for the "incredible love story" (gag) of Spencer and world's worst actress Alexandra Dutton on "1923", so whenever it comes back, I hope I can have strong will and abstain from watching.  I'm kicking myself for watching "Lioness" having no idea it was a Taylor Sheridan show!

Part of me wants Yellowstone to end for good next week so I can try and divest myself of this guy.  As much as I like Kelly Reilly and Cole Hauser in their roles, if they showed up in a Season 6 or a spinoff that just means more Travis.

On 12/9/2024 at 9:06 AM, Blondie said:

And unless Beth and or Kayce was the executor of the estate they didn't have the  right to sell anything. 

I think it's safe to assume that Beth was the executor.  She is a businesswoman, banker, M&A and very much qualified.  The only other candidate would be Jamie, and we know how much John liked him.

On 12/9/2024 at 12:46 PM, KittyQ said:

Every week, they make Jamie dumber and dumber. What was with him whining to his ex "I don't know what to do"? He's not 12! He has authority and power, although you'd never know it by this behavior. Now there's another woman telling him what to do and how to do it. The slow-moving character assassination of Jamie is almost as aggravating to me as the strange approval of Beth's immature and sociopathic behavior. 

I didn't even recognise her but I assumed she was the baby mama.  How is she even qualified to give him advice.  Wasn't she just a campaign assistant?  

When Jamie first appeared in this episode, I heard a train whistle in the background.  I hope that's foreshadowing of him going to the figurative train station.

On 12/9/2024 at 3:00 PM, Moose135 said:

That's what the promos say, 'One episode until the season finale' but beyond various rumors about spinoffs, there has been no indication that Yellowstone will continue into another season. And if we do get one, it will probably be another three years before we see it.

There is the rumoured spinoff.  But believe it when it actually happens.  The fact that Taylor Sheridan would rather just create as many shows as possible (like Game of Thrones author George RR Martin) instead of focusing on the one that brought him fame in the first place (Yellowstone proper and the book series) says a lot.  His lack of attention to Yellowstone proper is what made Kevin Costner quit.

I also remember that we were promised a second season of "1883" and then he clarified that he meant the story continues in "1923".  Well, it didn't really.  It was forty years later.

5 hours ago, TVbitch said:

I did not know the Travis guy was Taylor Sheridan. What a smug asshat. I guess he is living his cowboy fantasy. He certainy doesn't try to hide how he values women. Half-nude buckle bunnies aside, our heroines are the saintly pure Monica, who always trusts and abides by Kayce, even when he's keeping her in the dark. She believes in him, and is always hot to fuck her man. Then there's the sexy hellcat Beth, who can hang with the boys and is up for a fight, but only gets  bruises that enhance her cheekbones. And, of course, she's always hot to fuck her man. 

I'd like to think that Teeter is one of the show's heroines, but I don't understand why he wrote her as this backwards hick that talks like she has marbles in her mouth.  I don't think they've ever explained why she sounds like that.  I've met people from Texas and none of them sound like her.

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FnkyChkn34

FnkyChkn34

23 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

If Beth was the financial person managing the estate, then why was it Kayce who came up with the idea to save it?   

 

14 hours ago, js9548 said:

My guess is Beth is consumed with grief over her father's death and seeking revenge on Jamie.  Well, her version of grief, anyway, under that tough exterior, she is grieving. 

My guess is that she was always concentrating on keeping everything (the land at least) and never thought that "giving it away" is the answer.

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PrincessPurrsALot

PrincessPurrsALot

(edited)

Beth is going to sell the land/operation to someone for $1 or some other ridiculous amount with the understanding that this will avoid tax liability in the future. There are companies that have been bought for $1 (see formula 1), usually when they are going under and third-party has a way to keep them afloat by investing a significant amount of money or the current owners no longer have a vested interest in keeping it afloat. However, there has to be no one to challenge the sale price. The state would have an interest in the value of the land and there is substantial paperwork providing a valuation. But, this is TV, so the normal rules do not apply. 

Not sure how they'll have it change hands or to whom, but that will be the big save that Kayce suggested to Beth. 

I am seeing out the end of this season, then I am done. I don't need any spin offs. The writing is too bad and the characters have become caricatures. 

ETA: fixed name

Edited by PrincessPurrsALot
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mledawn

mledawn

(edited)
14 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

There's a gossip site that claims Sheridan wanted to bang Bella Hadid, so he wrote this episode so he could hire her to play his girlfriend. I feel sorry for his wife.

Not that I think there's any truth to this however; his wife is an absolute rocket and lists Ronald Reagan as her favourite president. I don't feel sorry for her at all.

Edited by mledawn
FnkyChkn34

FnkyChkn34

(edited)
11 hours ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

Beth is going to sell the land/operation to someone for $1 or some other ridiculous amount with the understanding that this will avoid tax liability in the future. There are companies that have been bought for $1 (see formula 1), usually when they are going under and third-party has a way to keep them afloat by investing a significant amount of money or the current owners no longer have a vested interest in keeping it afloat. However, there has to be no one to challenge the sale price. The state would have an interest in the value of the land and there is substantial paperwork providing a valuation. But, this is TV, so the normal rules do not apply. 

Not sure how they'll have it change hands or to whom, but that will be the big save that Jamie suggested to Beth. 

I am seeing out the end of this season, then I am done. I don't need any spin offs. The writing is too bad and the characters have become caricatures. 

I don't think it's going to be $1; I think that was just Kayce's example.  My guess is that the Broken Rock Reservation will be able to come up with a couple million and that's what they'll sell it for, then afterwards it'll be tax-exempt land.  But, Kayce's example was sales taxes, and we're dealing with real estate transfer taxes, and I don't think they work the same...

But yes, magic of TV.  

Edited by FnkyChkn34
fixed name
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bunnyface

bunnyface

Can't get the computer to cooperate today for quotes, but all this "Beth saving the ranch" business is just another example of bad writing, retcon, whatever.  She has said more than once that once her father is gone, she doesn't care what happens to the ranch and they can pave the whole thing for all she cares.  Now she wants to save it.  What changed?  The best I can come up with is her father didn't live out his natural life, so she's pissed and now is fighting back.  But otherwise, she's always been clear about her lack of interest in the ranch.

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FnkyChkn34

FnkyChkn34

6 hours ago, bunnyface said:

Can't get the computer to cooperate today for quotes, but all this "Beth saving the ranch" business is just another example of bad writing, retcon, whatever.  She has said more than once that once her father is gone, she doesn't care what happens to the ranch and they can pave the whole thing for all she cares.  Now she wants to save it.  What changed?  The best I can come up with is her father didn't live out his natural life, so she's pissed and now is fighting back.  But otherwise, she's always been clear about her lack of interest in the ranch.

She's now married to Rip, who cares about the ranch?  And since she's been back, she cares about Tate?  I don't know, just some guesses.

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Dowel Jones

Dowel Jones

On 12/8/2024 at 10:13 PM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

 The gargantuan debt remains, whomever ends up with it.  But, I'm perfectly willing to suspend disbelief.

I did some quick research and currently the federal estate tax (not the same as inheritance tax) allows the first ~$13.6 million dollars in property value to be excluded from taxation.  Then, on a graduated scale, every $1 million above that is taxed at 40%, or $400,000.  Nowhere near the debt that they are claiming.  Yes, it's a plot device to move the story forward but I find it difficult to believe that the entire ranch would have to be sold or taken by the feds to satisfy that debt.

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