S21.E05: Supper Club

[SemiCharmedLife]

On 4/18/2024 at 11:33 AM, Bastet said:

I don't think in a team challenge the money should automatically be divided up into equal amounts for each chef, especially when they have a list of required courses, because some courses require costlier ingredients than others.  But when they decide, as a team, who's going to make which course and what each of those dishes is going to be, the budget needs to be part of that discussion.  Not wait until the check-out line of a notoriously expensive store and, golly gee, we've gone over.

I was thinking the same thing, particularly when Manny mentioned the cost of just one of his ingredients- the beef. The team needs to take into consideration that the meat and fish portions may need extra money.  And, it wasn't okay for Danny to  get only $75 and the rest of the chefs just say, "We'll help you out."  They should have reevaluated right then and there. Hopefully, they have learned something about budget before doing additional team challenges or Restaurant Wars.

I remember during the last team challenge, one team had a better plan for purchasing ingredients- they cross checked ahead of time who had duplicate ingredients and made sure only one person bought them.  

Edited April 25 by SemiCharmedLife
added a phrase

[CrazyInAlabama]

13 hours ago, Bastet said:

I don't think in a team challenge the money should automatically be divided up into equal amounts for each chef, especially when they have a list of required courses, because some courses require costlier ingredients than others.  But when they decide, as a team, who's going to make which course and what each of those dishes is going to be, the budget needs to be part of that discussion.  Not wait until the check-out line of a notoriously expensive store and, golly gee, we've gone over.

I'm pretty sure we've seen them take things off the bill, not just put them aside before even being rung up.

I wonder if taking things off wasn't in the rules this time?   It wouldn't surprise me if they had it in the rules that once you checkout, no changes, for the drama to ramp up. 

[dleighg]

so perhaps a Wisconsinite can explain. When they introduced the theme of the challenge, it sounded like a set main course for each day. But I looked at the website for the restaurant featured, and it's a standard restaurant menu with lots of choices. The menu tended toward homey, familiar food, but there were tons of choices.

So which is it? Is this restaurant not really a traditional "supper club" and the other thing exists elsewhere?

[Heathrowe]

I watched this episode and the next day I could not remember who was eliminated because it was…that boring.

This season is very snoozy, the cooking is just meh. I think it’s tough to top last season. 

TC is my comfort watch, I don’t expect it to be exciting but…interesting and delicious at least?

Edited April 19 by Heathrowe

[Yeah No]

21 hours ago, rhofmovalley said:

I agree, but what I was wondering is if the producers are trying to create a "villain". Because, you know, all competition shows MUST have a villain 🙄

I actually see this show as going in the opposite direction from its very contentious past.  I think the audience has changed and wants a "kinder, gentler" competition so I think it's picking more non-offensive people now than ever before.  But they still slip in a jerk here and there for sure (like hat guy).

18 hours ago, Spicysweet said:

Would someone please refresh my memory--aren't most of these chefs James Beard award winners or finalists? Don't they work in Michelin-starred restaurants? And they can't cook popular cuts of beef or fish? I've seen better cooking on Guy's Grocery Games. 

I know, I hear you.  And it makes me wonder if the talent pool in the chef world is going downhill in general.  I think with the focus on "cooking one's food" some of the universal cooking skills are not being focused on and internalized and so when the chefs have to reach outside their comfort zones they don't have much to pull from other than their own style of cooking.  And that's not going to work in a competition.  They need to be skilled in certain classics or basics in order to branch out from their comfort zones successfully and think outside the box creatively.  It would be like "reading the classics" as a foundation for literature of all kinds, or learning Latin as a foundation for learning other languages.  Or learning ancient philosophy as a foundation for understanding all philosophy since then.  

[MaggieG]

I've been to that farmer's market! Years ago my ex and I were in Madison for a concert and a football game and our hotel was in the same area so we walked around there.

I love chicken katsu so I would have loved to try both of the chicken dishes

[snarts]

4 hours ago, dleighg said:

so perhaps a Wisconsinite can explain. When they introduced the theme of the challenge, it sounded like a set main course for each day. But I looked at the website for the restaurant featured, and it's a standard restaurant menu with lots of choices. The menu tended toward homey, familiar food, but there were tons of choices.

So which is it? Is this restaurant not really a traditional "supper club" and the other thing exists elsewhere?

Not a Wisconsinite but a frequent visitor years ago when it was my assigned sales territory. Visited many a supper club. All had menus and felt very much like a typical mom & pop restaurant. The biggest draw I recall was that the pricing, particularly the drinks. Much cheaper than at the national chains. Reminded me a bit of the local pub vibe in the UK.

[Fukui San]

For some reason the events of the episode bring to mind an Onion style headline: "Food Scientists Announce the Successful Addition of a Fourth Leche to Cake"

[meep.meep]

16 hours ago, albarino said:

I wish they would have touched a little more on the Harvey Girls and that particular history--not sure where they would have gone with it--other than to tie it into a particular dish or something.  

I know!  I spent the entire episode wondering when they were going to mention the history of the Harvey Houses!  And it was even at a train station!  Most of them are in the SW - I've eaten at the one in Winslow.  Was this a real one?

[Tango64]

55 minutes ago, snarts said:

Not a Wisconsinite but a frequent visitor years ago when it was my assigned sales territory. Visited many a supper club. All had menus and felt very much like a typical mom & pop restaurant. The biggest draw I recall was that the pricing, particularly the drinks. Much cheaper than at the national chains. Reminded me a bit of the local pub vibe in the UK.

So a supper club is... just a restaurant? 

[dleighg]

40 minutes ago, Tango64 said:

So a supper club is... just a restaurant? 

From the descriptions I've found, it seems like a restaurant where the brandy old-fashioned and relish tray are non-negotiable.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I suspect the 'supper club' aspect was to get people in the door, and guessing that people would become regular customers, and buy a lot of drinks.   Profit is huge in liquor sales.  Since they started in the 1920's I bet that was also a way to have liquor with dinner, since it was a private 'club'.  

[carrps]

20 hours ago, dleighg said:

I think it's because katsu is kind of trendy, plus didn't the "real" supper club restaurant do a similar type breaded/fried chicken thing? I'm partial to chicken milanese, myself. I recently made a sortof katsu with chili crisp, and all I could think was "I'm going back to milanese."

I love pork tonkatsu. I think it's because the traditional katsu sauce is so assertive. I'm addicted to it. I can see why they used chicken though. Pork is really easy to turn into shoe leather.

[Rammchick]

3 hours ago, Fukui San said:

For some reason the events of the episode bring to mind an Onion style headline: "Food Scientists Announce the Successful Addition of a Fourth Leche to Cake"

😂  I also thought it was funny that it wasn't called Quatro Leche.

Did they ever mention what the Fourth Leche was, btw?  

[Rai]

For the record, I think Laura did two things, so she racked up a big bill with the alcohol because she also did a spin on the brandy alexander in addition to her cake of many leches. Obviously, she still should've budgeted better or dropped the drink plan, but it wasn't just the dessert that sent her bill up.

[ShuFace88]

9 hours ago, dleighg said:

so perhaps a Wisconsinite can explain. When they introduced the theme of the challenge, it sounded like a set main course for each day. But I looked at the website for the restaurant featured, and it's a standard restaurant menu with lots of choices. The menu tended toward homey, familiar food, but there were tons of choices.

So which is it? Is this restaurant not really a traditional "supper club" and the other thing exists elsewhere?

I live in northwest Wisconsin in a very rural area. The supper clubs here all have regular menus but then have the traditional "specials" on the weekends. Friday night is always a fish fry. Saturday night is prime rib and Sunday is "broasted" chicken.

Friday fish frys have been tradition in Wisconsin for generations especially in the Milwaukee area which has more Catholics (no meat on Fridays back in the day). 

Prime rib is cooked as a whole roast and then sliced to order. I imagine the cost, time and labor for this is a lot for a mom and pop supper club to handle so it became tradition to only do it on Saturdays. 

I live in a tourist area with lots of lakes and ATV trails. There would be riots if the supper clubs messed with the fish fry and prime rib traditions up here! The restaurant in Madison that they featured was definitely an upscale and modern version of a supper club compared to the more rural and tourist areas.  Think dark wood paneling and big booths with leather cushions.

[carrps]

19 minutes ago, ShuFace88 said:

Think dark wood paneling and big booths with leather cushions.

Sounds like my kind of place!

[dleighg]

1 hour ago, carrps said:

I can see why they used chicken though. Pork is really easy to turn into shoe leather

Pork was not an option. The team had to make a relish tray, a fish dish, a chicken dish, a beef dish, and a dessert

[cameron]

4 hours ago, Tango64 said:

So a supper club is... just a restaurant? 

Check the menu on the restaurant featured.  The prices aren't exactly mom and pop type of place and they also served black truffle mac and cheese which isn't folksy either.

[mlp]

I seem to remember that the woman who is an owner said something like "When we do the supper club menu....."  I had the impression that the venue is usually a regular restaurant but it does supper club menus sometimes.

[marybennet]

I heard the woman owner of Harvey House interviewed on a podcast, and she indicated that they were a non-traditional supper club that prepared a traditional supper club dinner for Top Chef because that’s what they wanted as a way to introduce the concept to the cheftestants. She thought they’d be adding a more traditional dish or two to the menu to acknowledge the Top Chef night. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

The Harvey House also has private dining rooms, and might have the supper club menu for events too.    A lot of their regular menu is supper club items, like the relish tray, and they look yummy. 

[Red Bridey]

Not a foodie: what, pray tell, is katsu? 

These chefs seem unprepared at best to compete in this competition. I disliked the naked ambition and superior attitude of Buddha, but by gum he studied the show and was prepared to be original and creative in all the challenges. This crew is boring!

[dleighg]

honestly, katsu is similar to any number of pounded, breaded, and fried cutlets. Think Milanese (which has the addition of lemon). It's not really anything revolutionary.

[carrps]

4 hours ago, dleighg said:

Pork was not an option. The team had to make a relish tray, a fish dish, a chicken dish, a beef dish, and a dessert

Ha, yeah, I forgot!

Right, katsu basically means cutlet, but it's always breaded and pounded flat. As I mentioned earlier, it's the sauce that makes it a Japanese katsu. But I guess they don't want to use old fashioned terms like schnitzel.

 

Edited April 20 by carrps

[kirklandia]

I dig an old school supper club!

There's another Wisconsin culinary tradition I can't get as excited about. Maybe they will go to Door County for the traditional fish boil.
https://www.foodrepublic.com/2016/11/21/door-county-wisconsins-iconic-fish-boils-are-history-in-a-cauldron/

Edited April 20 by kirklandia

[SemiCharmedLife]

35 minutes ago, kirklandia said:

I dig an old school supper club!

There's another Wisconsin culinary tradition I can't get as excited about. Maybe they will go to Door County for the traditional fish boil.
https://www.foodrepublic.com/2016/11/21/door-county-wisconsins-iconic-fish-boils-are-history-in-a-cauldron/

Thanks for sharing the article.  I will be visiting Wisconsin this summer (though the western side) and will look for a fish boil to attend.

[Irlandesa]

3 hours ago, kirklandia said:

I dig an old school supper club!

There's another Wisconsin culinary tradition I can't get as excited about. Maybe they will go to Door County for the traditional fish boil.
https://www.foodrepublic.com/2016/11/21/door-county-wisconsins-iconic-fish-boils-are-history-in-a-cauldron/

I remember reading an article that said, because of union contracts (or something like that), they don't travel more than 75 miles from their destination/home base.  That's when I knew we wouldn't be getting a sports-themed challenge at Lambeau Field. 

2 hours ago, SemiCharmedLife said:

Thanks for sharing the article.  I will be visiting Wisconsin this summer (though the western side) and will look for a fish boil to attend.

They're mostly a Door County thing.  You could probably find a fish fry or a pizza on the farm event but I think a fish boil, which is largely tied to Lake Michigan, is more of a tradition on the eastern side. 

But do check out some of the apple farms, especially if you're in the southwest/Driftless area.

I'm disappointed they focused on brandy alexanders and not a rather unique version of the old fashioned--the brandy old fashioned. 

[Steph Sometimes]

After the Quickfire announcement of the increased prize from Wells Fargo, one of the chefs (Savannah, maybe?) said, "Thank you, Wells Fargo" in sort of a sing-songy voice that reminded me of Tim Gunn's, "Say 'Thank you, Mood,'" and the designers all responding, "Thank you, Mood!"

Speaking of the Quickfire, I wondered if the chefs could share their farmers market ingredients if someone had something that would work really well with your concept, and they weren't really using it.

And finally, everything I (a Southern Californian) really know about supper clubs comes from this novel that I enjoyed and recommend - Saturday Night at the Lakeside Supper Club.

[carrps]

14 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I'm disappointed they focused on brandy alexanders and not a rather unique version of the old fashioned--the brandy old fashioned. 

I could swear someone on the show mentioned a brandy alexander -- maybe Tom? -- but I'm not 100% sure.

[CatWarmer]

On 4/19/2024 at 8:07 AM, meep.meep said:

I know!  I spent the entire episode wondering when they were going to mention the history of the Harvey Houses!  And it was even at a train station!  Most of them are in the SW - I've eaten at the one in Winslow.  Was this a real one?

I noted earlier that the owners used the name "Harvey" both in honor of the name of one of their relatives, and as an homage to the actual Harvey Houses since they were in an old train station.  It is not related to the historical ones.

[Bastet]

15 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I remember reading an article that said, because of union contracts (or something like that), they don't travel more than 75 miles from their destination/home base. 

Yeah, there are zones on union filming projects, where if you go outside the X-miles radius, you have to pay transportation costs, and if you go outside the larger Y-miles radius, you have to put everyone up for the night.

[dgpolo]

On 4/18/2024 at 7:26 AM, Seelouis said:

This was clearly a set up to see how they worked as a team with the budget. Kristin specifically asked the question so they knew it would be an issue. Everyone knows Whole Foods is outrageously expensive. 

I think it could be something like what happens on Amazing Race, the crews with the racers will radio/phone Phil with anything 'interesting' that happens on the course so he can ask about it at the mat. The crews with the chef's probably keep in touch with someone who tells Kristen and the judges 'interesting' things that happen while shopping/cooking/traveling etc. specifically so it can be asked about at the meal/judges table.

[Tess23]

Maybe I'm cranky because I tore my calf muscle this morning and am in pain, but I am IRKED with what is happening to my favorite show. Are we watching The History Channel or Top Chef? Are they overcompensating for less than exciting chefs and blah food with a Wisconsin tourism plug? Note: I'm from the Midwest so am not dogging on Wisconsin per se. Bring back the watchability of the Season 4 or 6 good old days - heck, I'd even take Pea Puree Gate again if it means the show I know and love is back. That said, I heart Kristen. 

[jpgr]

4 hours ago, Bastet said:

Yeah, there are zones on union filming projects, where if you go outside the X-miles radius, you have to pay transportation costs, and if you go outside the larger Y-miles radius, you have to put everyone up for the night.

And this is where "TMZ" comes from, because they were originally reporting from the "Thirty Mile Zone" around Hollywood.

[marybennet]

Just fyi re what we were all wondering about about the grocery bill, Jim Smith, who was on the Beyond Top Chef podcast about this episode (I’ve been cleaning closets and listening to a million podcasts), said that in his season, Charleston, you couldn’t take something off the grocery bill once it had been scanned.  Don’t know if that’s still true.  
 

He said his Alabama restaurant was recently featured in Conde Nast Traveler.  Good for very sweet Jim!  Anybody remember the chicken livers with strawberries?

[caitmcg]

22 hours ago, Steph Sometimes said:

And finally, everything I (a Southern Californian) really know about supper clubs comes from this novel that I enjoyed and recommend - Saturday Night at the Lakeside Supper Club.

I also liked this one. All of J. Ryan Stradal's novels concern families and their food-related businesses in the Midwest.

[jackjill]

Fish boils are a Door County thing. While boiled fish sounds icky, it is delicious. We go to one every time we're up there. 

I've been to a bunch of supper clubs and agree with the poster who mentioned the specials -- fish fry on Friday, prime rib on Sat and chicken on Sunday -- with a regular, very meat and potatoes menu as well. I love a good supper club. The owners of the Harvey House said they were inspired by the Wisconsin supper club. Looking at the menu, it's not a traditional one by any means. I had to laugh at the $18 relish tray. That is ridiculous, IMO. 

Loved Dan winning with the relish tray! I have fond memories of the relish tray when I was a kid, just like he did. The veggies were so crisp and cold. There was usually a port wine cheese spread with hard breadsticks, a liver or fish dip that my parents loved. Sometimes really good cottage cheese. Served on a cold lazy susan. I loved spinning it to get see what was on there. What can I say -- I'm old and it was a simpler time :)

 

 

[cameron]

7 hours ago, jackjill said:

Fish boils are a Door County thing. While boiled fish sounds icky, it is delicious. We go to one every time we're up there. 

I've been to a bunch of supper clubs and agree with the poster who mentioned the specials -- fish fry on Friday, prime rib on Sat and chicken on Sunday -- with a regular, very meat and potatoes menu as well. I love a good supper club. The owners of the Harvey House said they were inspired by the Wisconsin supper club. Looking at the menu, it's not a traditional one by any means. I had to laugh at the $18 relish tray. That is ridiculous, IMO. 

Loved Dan winning with the relish tray! I have fond memories of the relish tray when I was a kid, just like he did. The veggies were so crisp and cold. There was usually a port wine cheese spread with hard breadsticks, a liver or fish dip that my parents loved. Sometimes really good cottage cheese. Served on a cold lazy susan. I loved spinning it to get see what was on there. What can I say -- I'm old and it was a simpler time :)

 

 

Totally agree about the menu at that Harvey House restaurant.  

[CrazyInAlabama]

1 hour ago, cameron said:

Totally agree about the menu at that Harvey House restaurant.  

I was shocked at the prices at Harvey House.   But I guess it's partly the atmosphere.    Also, they have several private dining rooms, with special menus, for private dining events, and I bet they do the supper club menus for that too.   

[SemiCharmedLife]

On 4/19/2024 at 9:41 PM, Steph Sometimes said:

And finally, everything I (a Southern Californian) really know about supper clubs comes from this novel that I enjoyed and recommend - Saturday Night at the Lakeside Supper Club.

Thanks for the recommendation.  I just put this title on my Goodreads list.

[Quilt Fairy]

Maybe I'm going crazy, but I distinctly remember an extremely brief clip from "This season on Top Chef" that looked like a fish boil.  When they throw the accelerant on the fire, it's a sight that you don't forget. 

[kirklandia]

I obsessively avoid anything that might remotely be considered a spoiler.  So I always skip the clips, and didn't get the hint.  
As a recovering librarian, I usually do my research before guessing or asking.  Guess I got lazy this time.
It didn't take much searching to find this in Milwaukee Magazine.  
(I don't think anyone else would remotely consider it a spoiler):
"After observing an old-fashioned Door County fish boil, the chefs are asked to create their own, with help from alumni of previous “Top Chef” seasons."

Can't wait to see it!

Edited April 22 by kirklandia

[bosawks]

The quickfire cooking seems to be decent but something seems to happen to a lot of the contestants after that.  A fear of losing seems to be getting more prevalent as the season goes on.  I'm hoping after restaurant wars things will loosen up with them.

That being said I really liked how her team seemed to want to protect Amanda when she was too ill to attend.  Nice short, terse answers with no room for drama, "She's under the weather, being attended to, she'll be fine".  Good for them.

[garnet207]

For some non-fiction reading on supper clubs, I'd recommend Ron Faiola's books about Wisconsin supper clubs-- he's written 3-4 books about them as well as made a documentary (which I haven't seen).