S10.E18: The Reunion, Part III

[hoodooznoodooz]

Rachel is upset and leaves the stage.

Sandoval (Are-you-in-love?-I’m-sorry.-Yes.): crickets 

[heatherchandler]

1 hour ago, Lady of nod said:

They could have just named this whole season much ado about nothing. Two people had an affair. wow big deal. The woman involved was a friend of the woman who was cheated on. This is often the case because people usually cheat with friends or people they know. This affair gave the show a storyline and all the losers on it something to sink their teeth into and rage about. They all got to show their righteous indignation despite the fact that they’ve all cheated.

I can honestly say that I don’t like anybody on this show. Lala is a disgusting excuse for a woman. Her nickname should be BJ’s for PJs.

James is a man child who can’t control himself at all. He’s not funny he’s not cute he and Lala should be together because they deserve each other

Katie is as always A miserable mean girl and basically just a bitch. Oh and boring.

Sandoval is a total narcissist and really unbearable to watch.

I don’t really know what to say about Sheanna other than she was also dating a married man with kids and punched Raquel in the face. Nice.

I’ve never liked Ariana. She’s smug and condescending and think she’s better than anyone else. I don’t believe that her relationship with Tom was much more than staying together for the show  

Schwartz, well he’s just Schwartz. He may be kind of dumb but at least he’s not evil. I don’t know how he put up with Katie for all those years.

As for Racquel, I have always felt that she was a sweet girl who was surrounded by sharks and abused by James and Lala. I still feel that Sandoval took advantage of her naïveté . She said herself that she was a people pleaser who decided to start pleasing herself. Obviously betraying Ariana by cheating with Tom was a really bad decision. I think that she really thought he loved her and probably treated her a lot better than James ever did. She will be paying for this mistake for a long time. I hope that she gets the help she needs and moves on from this shark tank. I give her kudos For showing up and apologizing and speaking in complete sentences. I truly do wish her well and as far as the rest of them I really couldn’t care less if the show gets canceled. I don’t find that a sandwich shop and trying to open a new bar is going to carry a whole season.

None of these people are normal

Yes 👏👏👏 to your whole post!  
 

I can’t believe Lisa and Andy sat there and did nothing to stop the disgusting misogynistic rant Ariana delivered.  That’s shameful. The hypocrisy!  That was verbal abuse.  
As many people are saying all over social media, as a woman, as a human, I sympathize with Raquel.  No one should ever be spoken to in that way.

Edited June 8, 2023 by heatherchandler

[hoodooznoodooz]

He dressed as Rachel for Halloween but couldn’t shave off his mustache?

[Chalby]

26 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Do we think that Rachel is going to wear a T-shirt from now on when she has sex with Sandoval?

I wish there was an  "eye roll" or "vomit" response option. Maybe the "wink" could be a stand in?

[hatchetgirl]

That t shirt comment says everything we need to hear. He's a scummy jackass that wanted to hurt her. He'd already hurt her so bad but he wanted to say something to really hurt her again! He doesn't care. He's hateful and a liar. 

Rachel, well damn, she needs some mental help. This bitch sent a postcard to their house, to Tom!!! A postcard which doesn't need to be opened but turned over and reported to be lightning bolts!!! That sick bitch!

The two of them fucking in Mexico, with Ariana on the same trip and then she makes it this Schwartz while fucking Tim???  What the fuck is wrong with these two people??? 

I'm happy that Ariana is getting all this support!!!

Shame on LVP for hammering Rachel, but softballing Tim!

[hoodooznoodooz]

“My friends call me Raquel.”

”But you don’t have friends anymore.”

[Chalby]

I just replayed the part where Ariana was stating their relationship was "an abomination" to understand why she chose that wording. It dawned on me that Ariana essentially "adopted" Rachel when she saw how James was taking the breakup. She continued to defend Rachel and provide support because she looked upon her like a little sister. Her disgust is the same as if learning her mate molested her sister. But then to learn this 'sister' was equally culpable destroyed any sense she had that others follow her same moral high ground. What a sad lesson to learn.

And boy, is Rachel ever smug during her final interview. She is so pleased with herself for fooling Ariana and the gals. There's no remorse or empathy. Definition of a sociopath. The only time she's upset is when she realized she chose the side that would never win, and her remorse is palatable. But only for herself.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Chalby

[nexxie]

How pathetic and ratings hungry can Andy Cohen get?! So many times he should have stopped Ariana and Lala from their disgusting and juvenile name-calling. Raquel handled herself with far more maturity. This show had few redeeming features to begin with - and none now. Can’t imagine people wanting to watch a show about Lala, Ariana, Katie, Scheana and their silly sidekick James.

[zenme]

During Ariana’s abomination and abortion speech was anyone else getting shades of Kay Adams Corleone’s speech to Michael in Godfather II? I thought Ariana was going to end it with “…because THIS MUST ALL END!”

[Jaundiced Eye]

Disappointed with the "big reveal." I thought it would involve the disclosure that Raquel also slept with Brock (which I suspect) or that Raquel did BOTH Toms on the Night of the Hot Tub.

[Jel]

I’m on a cruise ship with no bravo channel (can you believe the nerve?!) and dodgy internet connection. Can someone please tell me what the big shocker-that-might-cause-someone—quit was?

Also, did I read that Rachel floated the idea of throupledom with Ariana and Tom? Like that would be a possibility? Masterful tv show idea floater or more proof that the girl ain’t right? I can’t tell.

[Gharlane]

3 hours ago, Chalby said:

And boy, is Rachel ever smug during her final interview. She is so pleased with herself for fooling Ariana and the gals. There's no remorse or empathy. Definition of a sociopath. The only time she's upset is when she realized she chose the side that would never win, and her remorse is palatable. But only for herself.

I think that was the most "shocking" part of the reunion. 😲

[albarino]

3 hours ago, Chalby said:

And boy, is Rachel ever smug during her final interview. She is so pleased with herself for fooling Ariana and the gals. There's no remorse or empathy. Definition of a sociopath.

IKR!  My daughter (a clinician but not her clinician) thinks she is on the autism spectrum.  I think at the minimum she was drugged up on some anti-anxiety medication.  

Regardless, sleeping together in Mexico and yet making out with Schwartz,  the thunderbolt necklace, and Tom dressing up as Rachel for Halloween is just plain creepy.  That is sociopathic!

I don't read other message boards so I can't speak to their sentiments but I'm still completely team Ariana.  I believe she was pretty composed considering the reunion was filmed two or three weeks after the world found out about the skanks.  

I could also watch that Uber eats commercial every day!

[Polliwollidoodle]

10 hours ago, Maurina said:

Okay they are all veering off into "I know you are but what am I" land at this point.  Especially Sandoval with his bizarre imitations of other people.  And that "Shut up!" "No you shut up!" that seemed to go on for 20 minutes

Seriously- one would think that with the magic of filming and editing, that there might be additional footage to substitute over the shut up I'm talking no I;m talking you shut up.  This is when I question why I' watch this. If this is the best they can do, then I feel justified in falling asleep and having to find it on demand to see if I did miss anything.

 I did wake up to hear Rachel say how she thought about them being a throuple since she is in love with Sandy and she already loves Arianna.

 

[Gharlane]

18 minutes ago, Jel said:

I’m on a cruise ship with no bravo channel (can you believe the nerve?!) and dodgy internet connection. Can someone please tell me what the big shocker-that-might-cause-someone—quit was?

Rachel returned six days later to confess she and Sandoval were fooling around in Mexican during Scheana's nuptials and then threw Sandoval under the bus in either an attempt to save herself or to come clean. 

[Keywestclubkid]

Rachel laughing while changing after her segment was cringe but her not crying until the end then smirking about how long they have been fucking and doing it when her friend was at a funereal in her house was psychotic

Edited June 8, 2023 by Keywestclubkid

[Jel]

13 minutes ago, Gharlane said:

Rachel returned six days later to confess she and Sandoval were fooling around in Mexican during Scheana's nuptials and then threw Sandoval under the bus in either an attempt to save herself or to come clean. 

Thank you @Gharlane! 
And geez, Rachel!

[FancyRhubarb]

5 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

I can’t believe Lisa and Andy sat there and did nothing to stop the disgusting misogynistic rant Ariana delivered.  That’s shameful. The hypocrisy!  That was verbal abuse.  

As if that wizened old prune Lisa would step in and stop a woman being verbally attacked. Notice how much tougher she was with Raquel whereas she couldn't provide cover for Sandoval fast enough? And constantly trying to make Schwartz seem like a misguided puppy dog, too cute and dim to be held accountable for his actions. And Schwartz STILL trying to do the cutesy "oh, I thought I was a Casanova but I looked gross". The smarmy act doesn't work anymore, you turd. We see you.

 

**And yes, I realize that calling Lisa a prune undercuts my point about misogyny. I stand by my hypocrisy**

[lili45]

9 hours ago, Gharlane said:

I did find it interesting that Tom and Arianna's open relationship began with Billie, not LaLa fooling around with Arriana in the back seat while Tom witnessing..

I believe that I heard that did not happen. I thought Ariana stated that, yes?

[Caseysgirl]

I hope we can put to bed this entire”scandal” for good. Why was the “ nation” so invested in this?  Personally, there wasn’t one person on that whole stage ( yes, including, you Andy) that I would want to spend  any time with, & yet, here I am weighing in on it.  Ariana proves to be not a very nice person & I think I know why Tom was afraid to break up with her. She’s vicious!   Neither of the Toms’ or Raquel deserve any attention, they are all so shallow. Layla & James deserve whatever unhappiness life brings them - they are beyond nasty.  I would say that Ally should get out of there, but she seems to be revelling in this nonsense so I suspect she’s just playing the part of the naive little girl, much like Raquel did.  Katie & Scheana - meh to both of you.

[itsadryheat]

1 hour ago, Polliwollidoodle said:

Rachel say how she thought about them being a throuple since she is in love with Sandy and she already loves Arianna.

🤮

[Drogo]

8 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

Ugh, the T-shirt comment. Did he think it would make people feel sorry for or side/identify with him? What the hell? He’s so bad at this.

T-Bone it’s almost as though your girl’s shirt will come off if you.. take it off her.  Was his nail polish drying at the time?

[Shauna]

11 hours ago, TheCouchPotato said:

Please, Andy, remove everyone aside from Ariana, Tom and Raquel so I can actually hear the responses to your questions. I can’t take the screaming and cursing anymore. 🙄

I really wish Andy would have controlled the situation better.  James and Lala looked liked fools the entire time.  I understand it is a difficult situation, but just stay in your seats and take turns talking.  I don't know, act like adults, maybe?  Even Ariana made herself look bad, I thought. I wish she would have taken the high road and not said some of the things she did.  Immaturity in this group certainly isn't lacking. 

[lili45]

6 hours ago, hatchetgirl said:

That t shirt comment says everything we need to hear. He's a scummy jackass that wanted to hurt her. He'd already hurt her so bad but he wanted to say something to really hurt her again! He doesn't care. He's hateful and a liar. 

Rachel, well damn, she needs some mental help. This bitch sent a postcard to their house, to Tom!!! A postcard which doesn't need to be opened but turned over and reported to be lightning bolts!!! That sick bitch!

The two of them fucking in Mexico, with Ariana on the same trip and then she makes it this Schwartz while fucking Tim???  What the fuck is wrong with these two people??? 

I'm happy that Ariana is getting all this support!!!

Shame on LVP for hammering Rachel, but softballing Tim!

So it turns out that some guys who observed S & R kissing in Mexico were correct after all! Brilliantly stated! 👏  👏  👏 

Edited June 8, 2023 by lili45

[Gharlane]

35 minutes ago, lili45 said:

I believe that I heard that did not happen. I thought Ariana stated that, yes?

Sorry, I meant that's when the stories about Tom and Ariana having an open relationship began. 

[JenE4]

That 3-hour-15-minute extravaganza would have been about 27 minutes tops if they cut out Lala and James. Jeez, enough already. I wish they would have just let Tom and Raquel talk. We tuned in to hear what they have to say for themselves, not just listen to “poopy-head” rants. Let them dig their own grave!! 

Conversely, let that producer who interviewed Raquel come out of the shadows and take a bow. That was some real investigative journalism right there! You seem to be holding something back…

It really made no sense whatsoever that Tom kept insisting, “It was just one time!!!” As if “one time during filming” was excusable, and anything that happens when they’re on hiatus from filming just…doesn’t count?!?!? He really did coach Raquel to commit to this “story” that they tried to stop. But I don’t understand why this made it any better—in his mind—to say we refrained during filming and by the time the season ended, the feelings were too strong. Does anyone think this is an excusable or better story? I tend to think that maybe he and Ariana did have a mutual “coaching each other” relationship because surely Ariana would have said, no Tom, that doesn’t really make sense, let’s tweak this detail. Left to his own devices, the best Tom can come up with is “It was one time!” or “I was pooping at the party and missed my ride home!” Or “She dipped out!” and then proceeded to change up whether she dipped out to home, the couch, his bedroom, the guest room…

So, okay, the big lie was that it was not “one time” during filming. How did they manage to have sex so many times during this group trip—especially when every day had multiple group events?! Where was Ariana during this? How did no one notice that everyone was together except those two? Or during their many rendezvous over the next 8 months, for that matter? 

my guess on the shocking reveal was that they had a threesome, at least once if not ongoing, and that Tom and Raquel broke code by going off on their own. But it turned out it was the opposite, and Raquel’s big solution was to suggest to Ariana that they just become sister wives?!? 

 

[Drogo]

So answering Lala’s question, if Sandoval would’ve approached Ariana before the affair and said he thought he might be developing feelings for Raquel, she said she would’ve told him “either we’re done and over or you never see her again.”  How exactly would that work on a show like this?  

[itsadryheat]

7 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Do we think that Rachel is going to wear a T-shirt from now on when she has sex with Sandoval?

https://shopsomethingabouther.myshopify.com/products/fuck-me-in-this-t-shirt

✊ mocking sandy is the new black

[lili45]

16 minutes ago, Gharlane said:

Sorry, I meant that's when the stories about Tom and Ariana having an open relationship began. 

Ah, yes!

[Shauna]

11 hours ago, JohnnyU said:

I haven’t read any of this thread yet but has Raquel always had inappropriate affect or zombie like reactions to what would be huge stressors to most people that are in this type of situation?   Maybe she’s on a benzo?  She won’t even attempt to fake-cry like Scumdoval.🤔

I do think she has some kind of mental health issue where she doesn't have typical reactions.  In some scenes, during interviews, she is actually smiling.  Very inappropriate.  At first, I thought she's just not bright.  But watching her more and more, I feel like there is something much deeper than that.  She really shouldn't be on this show.  Not that her family could have stopped her, but I wonder if anyone told her this wasn't a good idea.  Even without this Sandoval situation.  She's not able to fend for herself, I feel. 

[Mr. Miner]

I'm older, but my wife walking around in nothing but a T-shirt is hot AF! Just sayin'

[Drogo]

5 minutes ago, Shauna said:

I do think she has some kind of mental health issue where she doesn't have typical reactions.  In some scenes, during interviews, she is actually smiling.  Very inappropriate.  At first, I thought she's just not bright.  But watching her more and more, I feel like there is something much deeper than that.  She really shouldn't be on this show.  Not that her family could have stopped her, but I wonder if anyone told her this wasn't a good idea.  Even without this Sandoval situation.  She's not able to fend for herself, I feel. 

Yes yes yes yes.  The final interview really drove this home for me. I really believe she has no idea what she’s doing wrong and she has no concept of how anything will look.

Pair that with someone who very intentionally crafts truths for appearances like Sandoval?  Fucking diabolical to 1) sleep with someone like this (brain age ~11) particularly knowing it will result in a situation they are in absolutely no shape to cope with and 2) coach them to lie about it and make that already unmanageable situation even more impossible with their limited abilities. Pinky and the Brain. 

Her actions were bad, but I wouldn’t convict her because

Shame on you Bravo.
And Sandoval should take a long walk off a short cliff. 

[Shauna]

11 hours ago, Jennifersdc said:

She really just said “detrimental to all of our friendships and she’s seeing consequences she never considered”. WTF. Sandoval must have wrote that.

There's no way Raquel could have come up with the word detrimental on her own. Or "gravity of the situation" or something like that.  Just like when Raquel said her mom had to explain something about Tom and Katie.  Honestly don't remember, but it had something to do with money?  I think Raquel said Katie should not be concerned with the bar or something and Raquel's mom told Raquel because they are married, Katie has every right to be concerned.  Again, Raquel should not be on this show.  She's not capable of handling normal, every day situations, let alone the crazy shit that's been going on with Sandoval. 

And while I'm at it, Raquel said she wanted to join Ariana and Tom's relationship.  This is so bizarre.  She just doesn't get it.  Or a lot of things. 

[Shauna]

11 hours ago, Gharlane said:

LaLa and James need to shut up. Once again (for the bazillionth time), LaLa is one of the last people who can opine on this and Jame's antics have become tiresome.

 

 

Lala and James looked like two 15 years old teenagers who couldn't keep their mouths shut.  No offense to 15 year olds.

I wish they'd get rid of Lala.  James can be funny at times, but also ass-holey at times, too. 

[Lady of nod]

7 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

Yes 👏👏👏 to your whole post!  
 

I can’t believe Lisa and Andy sat there and did nothing to stop the disgusting misogynistic rant Ariana delivered.  That’s shameful. The hypocrisy!  That was verbal abuse.  
As many people are saying all over social media, as a woman, as a human, I sympathize with Raquel.  No one should ever be spoken to in that way.

Thank you! It’s a relief to know that other people have compassion and empathy

[Lassus]

10 hours ago, princelina said:

Haha they know it's "their show" now! 

Yeah, I don't think 98% of the the non-LVP lifetime cast of VPR is going to have much of anything approaching a Q rating in 5 years or much money at all.  I get that Lisa has a bunch of hopped-up mouthy employees now, but I'm not sure that's to their actual benefit.

10 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

Wow Ariana is disgusting. She calls herself a feminist and then calls a woman a “whore” and “subhuman.” I’m honestly disgusted that Andy and Lisa didn’t shut that down.

I’m nauseated by her. And I checked Twitter, and it seems like the pendulum has swung the other way.  No one is cheering her on, they are disgusted.

I get this sentiment, but mobs are mobs and this was filmed less than three weeks after finding the sex video on the phone, and that's pretty soon.  Ariana is still feeling the raw rage; understandably, honestly.  It had really JUST happened.

It has been over 10 weeks since this reunion was filmed, BTW.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Lassus

[linger]

Throwing around the word bullying, when it comes to Ariana, baffles me. One of her best friends, who she protected, defended, supported, and seems to have genuinely loved, was having a relationship with her boyfriend of 9 years. And doing crazy stuff like buying secret love necklaces & probing her about their sex life, etc. And Ariana had just recently been publicly blindsided. This, my friends, is where you F around & find out. It is not bullying to verbally decimate the person who so diabolically betrayed you in one of the worst possible ways. It’s a shame for Raquel that it had to happen in front of millions of viewers, but as goes the cliche, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. So now people are Team Raquel because Ariana said mean things to her? Yep, baffled.
 

James & Lala are a different story, though most of James’ ire seemed directed at Sandoval, and at times was at least entertaining. Lala was just annoying. 
 

I don’t consider myself a violent person, but if I had been Ariana when Sandoval made the T-shirt comment, about 2 seconds later he would have been on the floor. He truly is pure scum.

In my unqualified opinion, Raquel has some serious psychological and/or developmental issues. Her demeanor, lack of affect or inappropriate affect, general dimness (is that a word?) made her easy prey for Sandoval, and while what she did to Ariana as her friend was abhorrent, I hate to say it, but I agree with Lala, Sandoval is dangerous.

[Maurina]

Just rewatched the whole episode. Having already seen the 'big reveal' last night, rewatching Sandoval lie over and over at the reunion about the timeline - and repeatedly insist that BECAUSE they 'only' fucked once and didn't for a long time after is a reasonable excuse for why they said nothing - holy crap he really is a committed liar. Perhaps Kristen really was right all those years ago - he's the best liar ever.

Dude. You lied about lying about lying. How is anyone, ever supposed to believe ANYTHING you say?

As for Ariana -- I hope she's gotten all her poisonous vitriol out of her system.  There comes a point where righteous indignation spills over to just being hateful. She's 100% in the right in terms when it comes to the affair, but please pull back on the "whore" talk and spitting venom.  Not even for them - for yourself.  Becoming consumed by your hate and bitterness will hurt YOU way more than them at this point.  Write 'em off, open that sandwich shop, don't look back.

Lastly: I will never grow tired of watching James Kennedy take such delight in slinging grade-school level insults. How many times did he call someone a 'poo-poo head'? If that had been a drinking game we'd all have been wrecked within 20 minutes

Edited June 8, 2023 by Maurina

[Lassus]

I found Tom's comment about having sex with a not-fully-nude Ariana more stupid than offensive, regarding what or what isn't hot or sexy.  Dude must be the fucking worst in bed.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Lassus

[Jel]

2 minutes ago, linger said:

Throwing around the word bullying, when it comes to Ariana, baffles me. One of her best friends, who she protected, defended, supported, and seems to have genuinely loved, was having a relationship with her boyfriend of 9 years. And doing crazy stuff like buying secret love necklaces & probing her about their sex life, etc. And Ariana had just recently been publicly blindsided. This, my friends, is where you F around & find out. It is not bullying to verbally decimate the person who so diabolically betrayed you in one of the worst possible ways. It’s a shame for Raquel that it had to happen in front of millions of viewers, but as goes the cliche, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. So now people are Team Raquel because Ariana said mean things to her? Yep, baffled.
 

James & Lala are a different story, though most of James’ ire seemed directed at Sandoval, and at times was at least entertaining. Lala was just annoying. 
 

I don’t consider myself a violent person, but if I had been Ariana when Sandoval made the T-shirt comment, about 2 seconds later he would have been on the floor. He truly is pure scum.

In my unqualified opinion, Raquel has some serious psychological and/or developmental issues. Her demeanor, lack of affect or inappropriate affect, general dimness (is that a word?) made her easy prey for Sandoval, and while what she did to Ariana as her friend was abhorrent, I hate to say it, but I agree with Lala, Sandoval is dangerous.

I agree she has some issues. I just can’t discern what kind. I don’t think she’s on the autism spectrum though. Cognitive impairment makes it near impossible to endure the rigors of university, so I don’t think it’s anything like that. She lacks empathy for sure, but only when it suits her it seems. So if I had to guess, I’d pick personality disorder like narcissism . But I really don’t know. She had me fooled. 
 

I am sure Ariana will come to regret some of the things she said. I haven’t seen part three yet, but from reading here, it sounds like she said some stuff. But, at taping time the hurt and betrayal were still fresh and she was being egged on by just about everyone. I think many people can relate to saying things in the heat of the moment that they later regret. And she did suffer a huge betrayal and a public humiliation, so not just your garden variety shitty event. 

[MaggieG]

1 hour ago, Gharlane said:

 

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by MaggieG

[MaggieG]

1 hour ago, Gharlane said:

Sorry, I meant that's when the stories about Tom and Ariana having an open relationship began. 

Ariana said point blank they never had any threesomes and they were not in an open relationship. There were rumors about Billie Lee but Ariana mentioned on a podcast she asked Billie Lee if she and Tom ever hooked up, Billie said they never did and Ariana believes her.

I feel very conflicted because I actually felt bad for Raquel during the last 5 minutes. It seems like the entire time the affair was going on she didn't realize what she was doing was wrong but now that it's out in the open and she's received all this backlash, she's slowly realizing it was wrong. She just seems like a person that is easily led. You could see it a bit when she said to Tom "if you could do that to someone you love, you could do it to me". It was also clear in the last episode when she asked Tom about he and Ariana being intimate. It was clear that he made it seem like he and A weren't intimate at all. We said this last week but that's why Tom was so desperate to talk to her without the camera. While she is definitely responsible for her own actions, you can see during that last conversation how much manipulating Tom had done. He had to make sure she was sticking to the script and it was only to make himself look better. She said that if she betrayed him she would have nobody but she's also tired of lying. He knows how bad it would be if it was revealed that they hooked up during Scheana's wedding. And now we all know. I think if she stays away from Tom and gets the mental help she needs (off TV) she might be able to move forward and see the errors in her ways. I'm not excusing her, she made mistakes and should have realized what she was doing was wrong, but I think it was a combination of Tom's manipulation, the fact that she is easily led, all the shit she put up with from James and not realizing this is real life and not a pageant where is performing.

I think the producers told everyone to hold off signing up for the new season because this shows just how big of a liar and manipulator Tom Sandoval is. And I'm pretty sure none of them had any interest in filming with him, this seems like the final nail in his coffin. 

[Maurina]

17 minutes ago, Jel said:

In my unqualified opinion, Raquel has some serious psychological and/or developmental issues. Her demeanor, lack of affect or inappropriate affect, general dimness (is that a word?) made her easy prey for Sandoval, and while what she did to Ariana as her friend was abhorrent, I hate to say it, but I agree with Lala, Sandoval is dangerous.

 

18 minutes ago, Jel said:

I agree she has some issues. I just can’t discern what kind. I don’t think she’s on the autism spectrum though. Cognitive impairment makes it near impossible to endure the rigors of university, so I don’t think it’s anything like that. She lacks empathy for sure, but only when it suits her it seems. So if I had to guess, I’d pick personality disorder like narcissism . But I really don’t know. She had me fooled. 

On the previous episode's forum, DrSparkles posted this and it absolutely rings true about Raquel:
https://psychcentral.com/relationships/alexithymia-in-relationships

[snarts]

Re: Ariana's vitriol

The reunion filmed on March 23rd, not even three weeks after Ariana found out about the affair. It was the first time she & Raquel were in the same room and she had just sat through hours of Tom taking almost zero accountability, blaming her for their relationship's demise and lying about the pertinent details. Raquel shows up and gives some wimpy worded lame-ass apology copping only being selfish, all the while smirking and showing little remorse. She was completely emotionless, almost flippant about it.

Yes, she said some hurtful things out of pain. Yes, she probably wishes she could change some of verbiage used. But, how can anyone fault her emotional reaction in that moment?? That fact that she remained somewhat calm and poised, used only her words, and didn't hit either of them was impressive to me.  

Seeing her on WWHL a few weeks ago, she acknowledged that she's now in a far better emotional state, getting more apathetic about the whole situation. However, blaming the victim for her emotional reaction in facing her longtime partner and close friend who 've been carrying on an illicit affair for MONTHS and are pretty unrepentant about it is a bad look in my book.

[Jel]

2 minutes ago, snarts said:

Re: Ariana's vitriol

The reunion filmed on March 23rd, not even three weeks after Ariana found out about the affair. It was the first time she & Raquel were in the same room and she had just sat through hours of Tom taking almost zero accountability, blaming her for their relationship's demise and lying about the pertinent details. Raquel shows up and gives some wimpy worded lame-ass apology copping only being selfish, all the while smirking and showing little remorse. She was completely emotionless, almost flippant about it.

Yes, she said some hurtful things out of pain. Yes, she probably wishes she could change some of verbiage used. But, how can anyone fault her emotional reaction in that moment?? That fact that she remained somewhat calm and poised, used only her words, and didn't hit either of them was impressive to me.  

Seeing her on WWHL a few weeks ago, she acknowledged that she's now in a far better emotional state, getting more apathetic about the whole situation. However, blaming the victim for her emotional reaction in facing her longtime partner and close friend who 've been carrying on an illicit affair for MONTHS and are pretty unrepentant about it is a bad look in my book.

Agree smarts. Compassion goes both ways.

[Drogo]

7 minutes ago, Jel said:

I agree she has some issues. I just can’t discern what kind. I don’t think she’s on the autism spectrum though. Cognitive impairment makes it near impossible to endure the rigors of university, so I don’t think it’s anything like that. She lacks empathy for sure, but only when it suits her it seems.

It's a spectrum, a scale- and impairments may be greater for some skills than others.  Popular majors for autistic university students are engineering and computer science, so clearly intelligence isn't a barrier depending on where those deficits exist.  

Most ASD women aren't diagnosed until adulthood because the common signs they exhibit when younger (anxiety, shyness, low self-esteem, difficulty reading social cues) are chapped up to age and it isn't properly explored to see where those behaviors come from. 

5 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

I feel very conflicted because I actually felt bad for Raquel during the last 5 minutes. It seems like the entire time the affair was going on she didn't realize what she was doing was wrong but now that it's out in the open and she's received all this backlash, she's slowly realizing it was wrong. She just seems like a person that is easily led. You could see it a bit when she said to Tom "if you could do that to someone you love, you could do it to me". It was also clear in the last episode when she asked Tom about he and Ariana being intimate. It was clear that he made it seem like he and A weren't intimate at all. We said this last week but that's why Tom was so desperate to talk to her without the camera. While she is definitely responsible for her own actions, you can see during that last conversation how much manipulating Tom had done. He had to make sure she was sticking to the script and it was only to make himself look better. She said that if she betrayed him she would have nobody but she's also tired of lying.

Trauma bonded, groomed..  She needs his "love" and validation because he's caught her in a cycle of reward. This show generally is a horrible place for Raquel, and Sandoval is quite literally the worst fucking individual for her to have gotten entangled with.    

If we look at how any of these people describe their friendships/relationships with Raquel, there's a commonality of "I took her in" / "I took care of her" / "I looked out for her" that truly isn't typical of adult friendships.  

[Jel]

1 minute ago, Drogo said:

It's a spectrum, a scale- and impairments may be greater for some skills than others.  Popular majors for autistic university students are engineering and computer science, so clearly intelligence isn't a barrier depending on where those deficits exist.  

Most ASD women aren't diagnosed until adulthood because the common signs they exhibit when younger (anxiety, shyness, low self-esteem, difficulty reading social cues) are chapped up to age and it isn't properly explored to see where those behaviors come from. 

Trauma bonded, groomed..  She needs his "love" and validation because he's caught her in a cycle of reward. This show generally is a horrible place for Raquel, and Sandoval is quite literally the worst fucking individual for her to have gotten entangled with.    

If we look at how any of these people describe their friendships/relationships with Raquel, there's a commonality of "I took her in" / "I took care of her" / "I looked out for her" that truly isn't typical of adult friendships.  

I listed cognitive impairment and being on the spectrum as separate. I should have punctuated better to make that more clear. I know there are lots of very smart people who are on the autism spectrum.  

[TheCouchPotato]

I’m not in support of Raquel, but as someone in the health field, something is definitely not right with her. If she is pushed, she’s capable of suicidal ideation and committing.  When you watch initial episodes with her, she seems fine. Maybe a bit too gullible and soft but mentally sound. I do think James had a negative affect on her and  mentally and emotionally abused her behind the scenes. I think Sandoval used her and played into his own fantasy. He was hoping, in some sort of sick way, that it would make Ariana jealous or fall more in love with him and fight for their relationship. I think  Raquel has separation issues given what her mother did to her, and seeks comfort, identity and purpose in men. Pageantry has taught her that women are the enemy so she can never have a fulfilling friendship. 

[Gharlane]

2 hours ago, itsadryheat said:

https://shopsomethingabouther.myshopify.com/products/fuck-me-in-this-t-shirt

Wow, that was a quick turnaround for that tshirt!

 

1 hour ago, Lady of nod said:

Quote

I can’t believe Lisa and Andy sat there and did nothing to stop the disgusting misogynistic rant Ariana delivered.  That’s shameful. The hypocrisy!  That was verbal abuse.  
As many people are saying all over social media, as a woman, as a human, I sympathize with Raquel.  No one should ever be spoken to in that way.

Thank you! It’s a relief to know that other people have compassion and empathy

I can understand Ariana's rage towards them, but it also was very uncomfortable for me to watch.

 

50 minutes ago, Lassus said:

I found Tom's comment about having sex with a not-fully-nude Ariana more stupid than offensive, regarding what or what isn't hot or sexy.  Dude must be the fucking worst in bed.

What exactly did Sandoval say? I initially thought he meant she wore a t-shirt because she was cold. He didn't seem to correct them or was too beaten down at this point, so I guess he meant she isn't sexy when nude. 🤔

[Lassus]

32 minutes ago, Maurina said:

On the previous episode's forum, DrSparkles posted this and it absolutely rings true about Raquel:
https://psychcentral.com/relationships/alexithymia-in-relationships

Keep in mind that if Raquel gets a(n overwhelmingly generous estimate of) 15 minutes of screentime per week, we are exposed to .2% (not 2%, .2%) of her waking life a week.  So it's probably less than even half that.

I'm not sure internet diagnoses are very reasonable.