S04.E07: Tailgate Party

[TexasGal]

Quote

Hoping to work the angles on the GoJo deal, Kendall and Roman ask Shiv to invite a political insider to Logan’s annual pre-election day party. Later, Connor considers whether to adjust his ambitions after receiving intel from the Mencken team, while Kendall and Roman catch wind of a potentially fortuitous scandal.

Airdate: 05.07.2023

[sistermagpie]

Wow, that was riveting! I'm always happy to see Rava, and it seemed like this ep brought up all the Roys' non-Roy person and showed how they lost them--all but Connor. His line about listening to the only person in the room who took him seriously really nailed it. Meanwhile, Roman couldn't just call backsies with Geri, Kendall turned news of his daughter being threatened by Nazis on the street into how he was making the world a better place (she's lucky to have her classmates' support) and Shiv had...that.

Greg is the most ridiculous hatchet man ever. Seems fitting.

[Dminches]

The scene on the balcony with Tom and Shiv was an all-time great one. Amazing and sad all at once. 
 

All 3 kids are tinkering on failure. 
 

[DrSpaceman73]

3 minutes ago, Dminches said:

The scene on the balcony with Tom and Shiv was an all-time great one. Amazing and sad all at once. 
 

All 3 kids are tinkering on failure. 
 

Tom finally speaking his mind. 

Though I was a bit worried he may take a dive off the balcony. Glad he didn't though because I'm still hoping for a Greg and Tom buddy comedy spinoff

Shiv is such a bitch. Accusing him of taking advantage of her by asking to marry her?  And acting like she couldn't say no to him to be nice?  Has never stopped her before.  

Connor trying to 'sneak' into Europe...

With his 1%  

I assume the funeral will be the finale.  Really dragging that out.  

Using Greg to fire people.  Typical Greg job.  All the crap they don't want to di themselves. 

[Irlandesa]

Other than the Tom/Shiv confrontation, Gerri tagging out and Connor saying he's going to listen to the one person who doesn't think he's a joke, I found this episode kind of boring. 

 

[tomsmom]

Took a drink every time Tom said he’s tired, now I’m tired!

 

 

[Dianaofthehunt]

We are ALL done with old man Logan, and I was disgruntled to hear funeral plans. Why can’t they ditch him & be done with him?

I hope all the fired Waystar workers stuffed their pockets and bags with office supplies their first week on the job. That’s how I’ve always worked it.

1 minute ago, Dianaofthehunt said:

 

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Dianaofthehunt

[BeckyThatcher]

George and Martha host a party. 

[Maurina]

Anyone else wondering about Matsson's rather abrupt descent from fairly enigmatic powermonger to drug-addled idiot who doesn't know how to handle himself at a party full of people whose partnership could make or break him?  Also: WTF with that horrific shiny quilted hoodie-without-a-hood thing that he was wearing?  The only thing that would have been worse would be an Ed Hardy t-shirt.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Maurina
correct spelling of name

[Blakeston]

28 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Using Greg to fire people.  Typical Greg job.  All the crap they don't want to di themselves. 

And in the end that's what endeared Greg to the Swedes - the fact that he'd fired so many people that day. If Tom had done that himself and told Mattson about it, he might have actually earned Mattson's respect.

Whoever called the GoJo people a bunch of weird insular fucks was certainly correct.

[juno]

The 3 children seem really smart, but each lack the ability to communicate in an effective manner. They cannot seem to just tell it like it is and be honest.

Tom seemed to finally force Shiv to tell the truth and come clean on what she is really thinking. There are so many layers to the communication on this show, it is like watching this show in the clouds and then once in awhile the clouds open and someone says something real and truthful.

I always watch this show and look at all the adults in the room, and these 3 are always the ones acting and communicating like kids. So smart, yet having almost no skill at negotiating and building relationships.

[Jaundiced Eye]

What a depressing episode. I actually felt sickened by the complete lack of humanity on display with all of these wretches.

[thuganomics85]

I may not agree with Lukas on.... a lot of things, but he's kind of on point that "Money & Gossip" really does perfectly describe this entire show to a tee.  Hell, that would probably have been this show's title if this came out in the 90s/early 00s and was on network television!

Man, being let go is never fun, but having to listen to fucking Greg of all people give you the bad news would truly be hell on Earth.  And why am I not surprised that he is trying to play this off like that makes him the big man on campus or something?  Cant tell if Lukas and his cronies were just patronizing him or if they really kind of dig his needy attempts at trying to look ruthless.  Maybe a bit of both?

Hope this is really it for Shiv and Tom, because tonight truly shows that even if you occasionally see glimpses of attraction and maybe even a bizarre form of love, they are both just horrible people and are worse when they are together.  Naturally, Tom throws himself a big pity party and tries to play himself off like a victim even though he knowingly puts dirt on his hands all of the time in order to get ahead.  But then Shiv has to counter things by truly acting like she's above it all and not just as much of a raging narcissistic like everyone else here.  Both of them just suck and need to never speak to one another again.  Goes without saying that Sarah Snook and Matthew Macfayden crushed it as always.  They want those damn Emmys!

Nice seeing Reva again finally and reminding everyone just how far Kendall has fallen as both a husband and especially a father.  I'd be impressed if he even remembers his kids' names at this point: let alone their interests, birthdays, ages, hell, how their voices even sound or what they look like.  The apple does not fall far from the tree when it comes to him and Logan on that front.

I keep telling myself that he has his own issues and weaknesses that stretch for miles, but I still find myself on Team Connor at this point.  Despite his delusions of grander (although apparently 4% of Alaska digs him!  Go Coneheads!), he still has the awareness to know that no one takes him seriously besides Willa and that's why he listens and even respects her.  That's kind of refreshing and why even though their relationship is strange in so many ways, they might honestly be one of the healthiest pairs here.

Of course, what I'm 100% for now is for Gerri to get the hell out of this craphole company and milk Roman for all of that sweet, sweet severance money she is owed.  And even then, I'm all for her still leaking Roman's unwanted dick pics.  Would serve him right.  

Nate might have actually been trying to do the right thing by telling Kendall he isn't Logan and that's a good thing, but I sadly suspect that will fall on death's ears.

So, it sounds like Lukas' numbers are actually not all that good thanks to a bad deal in India, so Kendall's plan (on his own) is try and flip the script and have Waystar by Lukas' company instead?  Yeah, that might sound sweet on paper, but I suspect he will find some way to fuck all of that up.

Looks like we are finally going to get more into the election/Mencken next week.

[txhorns79]

15 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Nice seeing Reva again finally and reminding everyone just how far Kendall has fallen as both a husband and especially a father.  I'd be impressed if he even remembers his kids' names at this point: let alone their interests, birthdays, ages, hell, how their voices even sound or what they look like.  The apple does not fall far from the tree when it comes to him and Logan on that front.

Yeah, what a great parent with his half-listening and immediately suggesting Reva was somehow to blame without really even knowing what happened. 

I've watched Sex and the City too many times in expecting that someone who perches near a window is somehow going to end up going out of it. 

[DoubleUTeeEff]

Just going to include a quote from myself at the bottom from episode 1 in order to congratulate myself. That's right, I called it. They want Connor out of the race. Too bad it turns out that all Mencken was willing to give him was Oman and Willa "his woman" is not down with it. OK, now that I'm done patting myself on the back on to the rest of the episode.

When Tom gave Shiv a scorpion for a gift, I thought, are we sure you thought this through Tom? If Shiv is a scorpion, then who's the frog? Tom, possibly? Yes, turns out he was because Shiv was ready to go along with him getting fired. Of course, it's pretty obvious if Mattson got a hold of ATN, he'd want to drain the swamp so Shiv would have had to really fight for Tom, something I'm not sure she's capable of. I think once she asked her dad not to fire him, maybe.

And now we know why Mattson wanted to make the deal so quickly. His numbers from India were falsely doubled. Kendall knew he was a bullshitter! Takes one to know one, Kendall. And now Shiv has to re-think her whole plan.

All the tension between Ebba and Mattson made me nervous. I was a little skeptical that she'd open her mouth about India to Roman and Kendall but I guess she already has her golden parachute out of there in February?

The Tom/Shiv fight out on the balcony (those balcony doors deserve praise for keeping the sound out) was amazing. I pretty much agreed with both of them. Shiv is selfish and Tom married for power. They couldn't keep their marriage of strategic convenience up through one measly party.

Gerri really brought it tonight! She's going to get eye-watering amounts of money and control the narrative or she'll release Roman's dick pics. I really enjoyed that scene. Roman was so dumb to fuck her over. Their business partnership really could have been beneficial to Roman.

I liked that there was one person at the party who wasn't willing to wheel and deal--Nate. He did say the one thing to Kendall that Kendall would not like, that he "wasn't Logan."

Of course Kendall wants to be the one head with the one crown. He might be making a Faustian bargain--his siblings for the crown. And we know his ex-wife and probably his kids hate him, too.

43 minutes ago, tomsmom said:

Took a drink every time Tom said he’s tired, now I’m tired!

You should have a coffee. Oh, then you wouldn't be able to sleep later. THINK!

 

On 3/27/2023 at 11:15 AM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

For starters, Conner who "will be a laughingstock" if he doesn't get 1% of the vote. What ego. He will actually inspire more ire if he siphons votes from another candidate in a tight race. Curious if this is where the story is headed and what it would take for him to stop campaigning.

[Marley]

Damn Tom’s broken line was savage. Yet somehow I’m still rooting for Shiv and Tom honestly something is wrong with me lol.

Great episode tho.

I am tired and over Mattson tho. I feel like when I watch him I’m watching someone act. Like I know they are all acting but I’m finding him just so obvious.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Marley

[sistermagpie]

18 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

I keep telling myself that he has his own issues and weaknesses that stretch for miles, but I still find myself on Team Connor at this point.  Despite his delusions of grander (although apparently 4% of Alaska digs him!  Go Coneheads!), he still has the awareness to know that no one takes him seriously besides Willa and that's why he listens and even respects her.  That's kind of refreshing and why even though their relationship is strange in so many ways, they might honestly be one of the healthiest pairs here.

 

And whatever the reason, finally somebody doing something that might actually keep the white supremist from being president. Kendall's pushing him to do the opposite despite what happened to his daughter. 

1 minute ago, txhorns79 said:

Yeah, what a great parent with his half-listening and immediately suggesting Reva was somehow to blame without really even knowing what happened. 

 

Yes, bit speech about how much he wants to protect them and somehow winds up suggesting everything he's doing, some of which he just learned hurts his kid, he's actually doing for them. Does anybody think he called her? I don't. Don't think Reva's surprised about it either.

 

[juno]

21 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

And now we know why Mattson wanted to make the deal so quickly. His numbers from India were falsely doubled. Kendall knew he was a bullshitter! Takes one to know one, Kendall. And now Shiv has to re-think her whole plan.

Unless of course this was a set up by Mattson and Ebba all along and a way to destroy the 3 children? I am not sure any of them would see it coming.

Edited May 8, 2023 by juno

[nb360]

Favorite lines:

Willa: "Running people over is not a selling point."

Kendall: "Watch out for new money, you have to hold those fresh bills to the light."

[Artsda]

While a couple scenes were good, that episode not much happened. 

Shiv getting Mattson to go to the party, betraying her brothers, and giving that crazy info on her family I'm not a fan of. Making really not like her, especially when they are trusting her. Tom can rat her out to her brothers. 

One good thing that came from it though was Roman found out about the sexual harrassment and they found out about India.   Mattson need them more than other way around I liked Kendall's plan to reverse it. 

They still not burying this man, but Connor goes to visit him? I laughed out loud at Shivs "any change?"

The balcony fight was amazing. Tom surprised me in his fighting back.  All of that coming out was about time. I guess bad timing on the she won't be a good mother and would not have his baby comments. 

 

[Francie]

My favorite blink and you'll miss it moment was when Connor said there was one person in the room who didn't think he was a joke, and Matsson did a two thumbs point to himself. The bored multi-multi billionaire who has amuse himself. 

Shiv and Tom were devastating on the balcony, but the comment that cut someone to core the most? Was Nate telling Kendall that he (Nate) wasn't Gil and Kendall wasn't Logan. He didn't mean it as an insult. And the fact it was a matter-of-fact observation made it all the more powerful. 

Who'da thought Connor's choices could singlehandedly save American democracy?  Stay in the race, bud, and syphon off those votes in the honeymoon swing states!

 

 

[kittykat]

Oh Kendall, was to blame Rava for your companies shit dealings.  I was hoping he'd storm ATN and fire Ravenhead but no luck.

Sorry Tom the Frog, you knew Shivs true nature when you latched on and still trusted her.  And with Shiv realizing that Mattson is utter shit balls they're both drowning.  

That Mattson /Kendall bro down was pure cringe but needed since it was closely followed by that Shiv and Tom throw down.

Connor refusing to back out of the race was great especially since it might actually doom Mencken's campaign.

[Slade347]

I've come to the conclusion that I'm Team Willa.

[aghst]

2 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Tom finally speaking his mind. 

Though I was a bit worried he may take a dive off the balcony. Glad he didn't though because I'm still hoping for a Greg and Tom buddy comedy spinoff

Shiv is such a bitch. Accusing him of taking advantage of her by asking to marry her?  And acting like she couldn't say no to him to be nice?  Has never stopped her before.  

I thought about him jumping but I also thought Shiv would drop the mike by telling him that she's pregnant with his baby.

Jesse Armstrong told the actors that this episode would be a nod to Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf?  That balcony scene nailed it.

I don't doubt that Tom was and is earnest about loving Shiv but he's such an obvious suck up, that's his nature.  He was not even hiding it when he tried with Mattson, who called him out on it -- "which do you value more?  I can do both, I can multitask!"  

How does someone rise to his level being so obviously bad at sucking up, despite having so much practice at it?

How richly ironic that the frog gives the Lucite gift to the scorpion.

[jeansheridan]

1 hour ago, Francie said:

Who'da thought Connor's choices could singlehandedly save American democracy?  Stay in the race, bud, and syphon off those votes in the honeymoon swing states!

Moreover WILLA not wanting to live in Oman could save democracy! I love Willa. And Roman's lack of respect towards her pissed me off. She is legit now dude.

[MBayGal]

2 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Curious if this is where the story is headed and what it would take for him to stop campaigning.

What difference would his campaigning have now, or his dropping out?  Isn't the election tomorrow? A huge number of people have already voted, and the rest aren't breathlessly waiting to see if Conner is still running before they vote. 

[Artemis9]

The heads on confrontation between Tom and Shiv is more emotionally devastating than the death of their father in this Season.
It is like the start of the eruption from a gathering storm... and the temporary peace between them was the calm before the deluge. For this episode, Kendall still "seem" to remain on top of the circumstances, the two siblings falling behind as a result of their own weaknesses. What's next indeed?

 

[realityplease]

Yeah, I know Ken's a shit dad who only gives half-attention (if that) to his kids or their issues, or tried to blame Rava, but c'mon Rava, spit it out!  So annoying when she hemmed & hawed getting out Sophie's problematic encounter.  Don't know if Rava was doing it purposely to be annoying -- or just annoying.  

New drinking game: Every time someone tells one of the Roy kids that they're not their father.  Tonight with Nate.  Hasn't Mattson said that to one or two of them in past episodes?  Gerri to Roman last episode?  Maybe others? Each time a gut punch or triggering to the one being told - even if true or just a matter-of-fact observation. (Such as Nate saying, "I'm not Daniel & you (Ken) are not Logan. And that's a good thing.")

The truth really emerged in that Shiv/Tom fight.  Ouch - painful!  Shiv accused Tom of marrying her for her DNA.  Tom telling Shiv she'd be a shitty mother.  And more. Their blows landed & hurt.  Love & hate (or contempt) & hurt intertwined.  Raw ambition making each one protect their own interests over that of their partner.  Tom cornered with losing his job.  (After callously watching 100 lose theirs - again letting Greg do his dirty work.) And Tom knows much about Shiv's intentions but where can he go with it - it's not like the CE-Bros would save him - but Tom's eyes, wide awake, trying to figure a way out. He's an odd one - the scorpion at the beginning of the episode a really passive/aggressive "gift."  Both acted the hell out of that fight.  

So now the power's shifted again.  Ken wanting to be one head, one crown.  Roman the one who gathered the dirt & got Ebba to disclose ("That India thing - remind me what that was again?") though Ken also present. But without Gerri's support.  And true, she "could have gotten him there" but he screwed that up.  Shiv realizing backing Mattson wasn't the right play - getting hints when he wouldn't commit to promise any specific position to her in exchange for her help - but certain when the deal became flimsier than thought.  

Edited May 8, 2023 by realityplease

[aghst]

3 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Other than the Tom/Shiv confrontation, Gerri tagging out and Connor saying he's going to listen to the one person who doesn't think he's a joke, I found this episode kind of boring. 

 

2 hours ago, Jaundiced Eye said:

What a depressing episode. I actually felt sickened by the complete lack of humanity on display with all of these wretches.

I am going to miss this show SO MUCH.

The re-appearance of Nate -- the mention of Gil again -- brought the show back to the first two seasons, when the clash in politics between Shiv and Logan and the rest of the family drove a lot of the scenes.

They were brilliant scenes, including the confrontation in Santa Fe, in Connor's kitchen, when Logan acted hurt and Marcia confronted Shiv.

The political differences weren't couched in the same language as the political discourse we hear everyday but it's very much our political reality now.  In the past 10-20 years, how many Americans haven't had heated arguments at family gatherings over their political differences?

Except Logan isn't just an old man repeating what he hears on Fox News.  He IS Fox News, the guy who creates and runs it, drives the political discourse in the country.

More and more, these political differences are impinging on the family dynamics.  Last week it was the studio head saying it was difficult to get the most talented people to work for Waystar's studio because of the politics of ATN/Waystar and Roman got offended and fired her.

This week, ATN may cause this deal to blow up or go through, depending on who wins the election -- which is a much bigger deal in the Roy family than they let on, because apparently it was a tradition for Logan to host a tailgate party before the election, not just an election night viewing party.

When Shiv and Tom are channeling George and Martha's characters on that expensive triplex balcony, it becomes apparent that one of the long-held resentments Shiv had with Tom was that he was a Midwest conservative who as president of ATN would not rein in its worst abuses.

It may also be a reason why Shiv doesn't want her brothers to get what they want, which would mean control of ATN.  She knows they won't change ATN, because it's very profitable and Roman is a true believer, even if he doesn't parrot MAGA narratives all the time.

What he does, as shown in the previews for the next episode, is make jokes like "my side wins, we're going to line you up to get shot."  

She knows Roman didn't make the deal with Mencken to have ATN back him only because it would be good for Waystar and the family but also because he likes Mencken's white supremacist politics.

The dialog in this episode is very allusive but it is very much about politics.  It touches on things like sexual harassment, which is one of the litmus tests of the moment.  Conservatives are waging a full out war vs. #MeToo and woke while liberals are not backing down on vilifying white male privilege.  And what do you know, two white male characters, both very rich and powerful, have all kinds of sexual harassment and punching down on female subordinates issues on this show.

Connor and Willa don't have the same politics but their relationship works through the difference and ultimately Willa influences Connor to reject Roman's offers and entreaties on behalf of Mencken.  The ranking of the countries is great stuff.

The dialogue and the acting were all cracking stuff.

Yes there wasn't movement on the deal but this show is way more than deals.  It's not political satire, though the politics is very cleverly satirized -- as one would expect since the creative team was involved with Veep.

The show is a lot more than political satire and deals.  It's how these despicable but interesting characters navigate around differences in politics, world views and how they see each other or how they see human nature.

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by aghst

[Simon Boccanegra]

I wasn't bored, but this is probably my least favorite of season 4 (which has been the best season of Succession, in my opinion). It had highlights, such as the balcony argument for Tom and Shiv, but the material around those highlights was cluttered and strangely unclear. Not unclear in a tantalizing ambiguous way, but in a clumsy way. The scene on the sidewalk for Rava and Kendall was better in concept than in execution.  

The woman who plays Ebba, Eili Harboe, is really nailing a particular kind of exhaustion and justifiable bitterness, though. And Skarsgård is doing his job well: incrementally, he's managing to make Mattson more detestable than the combined Roys. Including the dead one.

One thing the episode did very well was free-floating dread. I was not expecting Tom to go off the balcony per se, but I thought someone might. The pieces and the hostile atmosphere were in place. I thought Ebba might take Mattson out.  

Yeah, Shiv's "Any change?" (re: Connor's visits to Logan) was hilarious.  

[millennium]

Was that Mark Linn Baker?  After faking his own Departure, he's got a lot of nerve showing up on TV again.

 

[Haleth]

That was outstanding.  All three kids were handed some inconvenient truths by the people who know them best. 

No other show should even bother submitting Emmy applications.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Haleth

[dmc]

So Shiv betrays her family because she was boxed out.  Madsen takes the info but isn’t remotely sold on Shiv in any kind of role. He needs to think about it.  That’s worse than a care package of blood bricks.

Will Shiv ever find someone who sees her value?

Follow up:

Does she have any business value?

 

Will I ever learn to spell Madsen’s name. No excuse I have an entire branch of Swedish relatives. 
 

Honestly Tom and Shiv weren’t doing well.

Scorpion wasn’t a gift that’s really what he thinks of her.

And he’s sort of right.

But he’s a jellyfish.  Stop bringing breakfast trays to person that almost sent you to prison

 

I just had a brainstorm

Tom is the Greg in him and Shiv’s relationship

Edited May 8, 2023 by dmc

[Blakeston]

6 hours ago, aghst said:

She knows Roman didn't make the deal with Mencken to have ATN back him only because it would be good for Waystar and the family but also because he likes Mencken's white supremacist politics.

While Roman is definitely right-wing, when he met Mencken I got the vibe that Roman was somewhat grossed out by Mencken's politics  - particularly Mencken referring to Hitler as "H," and admitting to using his tactics.

Not that that stopped him from supporting Mencken, of course.

 

[Guest]

Shiv and Tom's scene was RAW and I was here for it. They were both right about so many of their points!  But wow, to see it all laid out like that was so intense. I thought she was going to drop the baby bomb too, but I can see why she didn't.

Interesting twist with Mattson.

[Dianaofthehunt]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

That was outstanding.  All three kids were handed some inconvenient truths by the people who know them best. 

No other show should even bother submitting Emmy applications.

Please! Let us not forget Babylon Berlin, the series that is “gliding over all.”

[cardigirl]

The knives were out tonight. I'm going to re-watch the episode, to try and make more sense of it. But yeah, Shiv was definitely NOT in Tom's corner during the party.  And he finally had had enough I guess. 

Shiv has so many conflicting emotions about being a mother, and no wonder, with the examples she's had around her. That was such a blow from Tom about her possible mothering skills. 😪 Will she keep the baby and use it as a weapon against Tom? Remains to be seen, but based on her past actions, it's possible she could use a custody battle to really destroy him.

I'm not really rooting for anyone, but felt rather sorry about Geri and Roman not being the power couple we all had hoped for. 

Edited May 8, 2023 by cardigirl

[absnow54]

Okay, I need another time check. We know this episode took place on a Monday. Did Logan die on a Friday evening? Or or Saturday? We know that it occurred on a weekend, because the markets weren't open. So that means we're around 10 days out, and they still haven't buried him? Having the funeral be episode 9 or 10 made sense when they were doing an episode a day, because that would make it about a week after his death, but with all the jet setting they've crammed in, we have to be pushing 2 weeks.

Another line that jumped out at me. Shiv mentioned that Tom took away six months she could have spent with her father. If she's only 16-20 weeks pregnant, and Tom's betrayal was 6 months ago, then the baby wouldn't be his. During their argument he said "You wouldn't even have my baby" which could stand on its own, since that was a sticking point in the season 3 finale, but would ring especially harsh if she went out and got a sperm donor immediately after they became estranged.

It just shocks me how much I can hate each Roy sibling, yet root for them at the same time. Like Kendall's encounter with Rava was so ugly, yet I want him so badly to out maneuver Mattson. And I was feeling really sympathetic toward Roman, since he's so obviously spiraling, but then he was a jerk to Connor and Willa. And Shiv is so frustrating, but I still find myself rooting for her.

[Dianaofthehunt]

In other news, why wasn’t Gil at the party? I can’t believe he wouldn’t be invited; he would have added spice and diversity to the doings.

and if Connor is really running for Prez, wouldn’t there be a reporter or two buzzing around, to get more data on how utterly hapless he is? Willa could do so much better!
 

Every episode that has Logan dead is a good episode. I so hate the phrase “self-made man;” no such thing and never has been. You don’t have to look carefully to notice that the only people who actually  do any work in this story are women.

[Macbeth1966]

So basically Mattson is the fictional version of Elon Musk.

[Lassus]

I feel like everyone's forgetting their 12th-dimensional chess assessments of Lukas re: Ebbe a few episodes ago.  "SHIV'S OUT OF HER LEAGUE WITH THIS, HE WOULD NEVER".  I mean, unless Ebbe is really REALLY playing them?  I would be somewhat disappointed if that's the case only in that it seems too unrealistically supervillain-y.  I think it's far more likely that a tech "genius" is a demented dickhead super-ego sex hobo.  

Anyhow, I guess we'll see.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Lassus

[absnow54]

The audacity of Kendall calling Mattson "new money" when Kendall's father was born poor. 

[Zaffy]

Mattson  bores me now, so does his Swedish entourage.. cause it is repetitive, as  I think the whole show is. We basically watch the same thing for 4 seasons now.
Yes the acting is superb, the dialogues can be amazing, some episodes are great TV, but still.. I feel the fatigue.
I think the series would be perfect if it lasted 2 seasons top.

In other news, I really find Kendall creepy every time he gives a public speech.. If I were a business partner, shareholder, client etc etc I would just run away. The story kind of feels weak  without Logan in the picture, mostly because the kids are so damaged and indifferent and I am not sold on their kind of pathetic intrigues. 

I will also join team Willa! Willa for president!

[dmc]

31 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

Okay, I need another time check. We know this episode took place on a Monday. Did Logan die on a Friday evening? Or or Saturday? We know that it occurred on a weekend, because the markets weren't open. So that means we're around 10 days out, and they still haven't buried him? Having the funeral be episode 9 or 10 made sense when they were doing an episode a day, because that would make it about a week after his death, but with all the jet setting they've crammed in, we have to be pushing 2 weeks.

Another line that jumped out at me. Shiv mentioned that Tom took away six months she could have spent with her father. If she's only 16-20 weeks pregnant, and Tom's betrayal was 6 months ago, then the baby wouldn't be his. During their argument he said "You wouldn't even have my baby" which could stand on its own, since that was a sticking point in the season 3 finale, but would ring especially harsh if she went out and got a sperm donor immediately after they became estranged.

It just shocks me how much I can hate each Roy sibling, yet root for them at the same time. Like Kendall's encounter with Rava was so ugly, yet I want him so badly to out maneuver Mattson. And I was feeling really sympathetic toward Roman, since he's so obviously spiraling, but then he was a jerk to Connor and Willa. And Shiv is so frustrating, but I still find myself rooting for her.

I think the baby is definitely Tom’s and shows just don’t sit around counting the weeks like we do. 
 

I agree with a lot that Tom said about Shiv.  But with regards to her mothering abilities, he is WAY out of line though.  Despite what men think women are not born knowing how to be mothers, it’s something you have to learn how to do.  And a woman agreeing to have your baby is never just about you, it’s something that the woman has to feel comfortable doing at that time in her life because it’s a massive undertaking.  
 

A lot of Tom’s problem with Shiv’s is he wants a different kind of wife.  He wants somebody who’s basically going to back up his career and be the mother of his child.  I won’t fault him for that, but he should’ve thought about who he married.
 

 

 

[DrSpaceman73]

20 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

The audacity of Kendall calling Mattson "new money" when Kendall's father was born poor. 

Yeah I thought that was funny too.  The idea they are old money somehow in one generation. 

The difference between Logan amd his kids :

They seem to be able to focus on and fight only one battle at a time. 

Logan was always fighting and playing everyone at the same time. 

[SHD]

5 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Yeah I thought that was funny too.  The idea they are old money somehow in one generation. 

Kendall’s always grown up with money and that’s all he cares about. That kind of statement fits right in with his egocentric, shortsighted worldview.

[Lassus]

Just now, dmc said:

A lot of Tom’s problem with Shiv’s is he wants a different kind of wife.  He wants somebody who’s basically going to back up his career and be the mother of his child.  I won’t fault him for that, but he should’ve thought about who he married.

Does he?  I never got this vibe from him.  Sure he wanted a child, but I never got the idea he needed or wanted Shiv to be some kind of lesser person.  I think one can want a strong person to support them. 

Maybe I'm reading you wrong.

[chaifan]

This was such a weird episode. 

I really don't get the "our dad just died 3 days ago, so hell yeah, let's throw a party!"  Not one person approached them with any type of condolences or anything. 

And, it's been 3 days and they're still planning the funeral?  No, wait, they're still deciding who is going to plan the funeral.  (Roman wins!  Yeah?)  Logan - and Marcia - would have had this all completely pre-planned, down to the last minute detail, paid for, and it would have been done by now.

Why was Geri even there?  Why were any of these people there?  I get going to Logan's party, to suck up to Logan, but as far as most of these people know, the kids are selling off the company, so there's no reason to suck up to them and just make face time at their party.

I have a hard time believing that Greg firing a whole bunch of people via zoom was impressive to the Swedes.  Or impressive enough to make up for the complete buffoon that they already know him to be. 

Count me in as thinking that either Tom or Shiv was going to take a nosedive off that balcony.  Or at least have a close call and have to be saved by the other. 

I had no idea it was this close to the election.  I am used to shows more or less tracking the seasons in which they are (originally) aired.  Connor & Willa's wedding day seemed like a really nice day if it was supposed to be November in NYC. 

Speaking of Connor & Willa's wedding...  people keep saying this season is supposed to be one real day per episode.  But weren't Connor and Willa planning their wedding in the first episode or two?  There was the conversation about her having to give up her dream wedding so Connor could make it into a photo op in front of the Statue of Liberty.  Did they really completely change wedding plans in a day??? 

I have to admit, at this point I really no longer care.  I'll watch the last episode (or are there 2 more?  three? I don't even know) just because why not, but there's no story line or character that I'm invested in.  If they all died in the next episode and the screen went to black, I wouldn't care. 

 

[dmc]

10 minutes ago, Lassus said:

Does he?  I never got this vibe from him.  Sure he wanted a child, but I never got the idea he needed or wanted Shiv to be some kind of lesser person.  I think one can want a strong person to support them. 

Maybe I'm reading you wrong.

You didn’t?  How about when her father offers her the CEO role… and he says I thought we wanted that for me.  Part of their issue is he wants someone supporting his career not building up her own. This is the position he’s stuck in but he definitely wanted the top role and the supportive wife.  Problem is, Shiv wants it too. 

Edited May 8, 2023 by dmc

[absnow54]

1 minute ago, Lassus said:

Does he?  I never got this vibe from him.  Sure he wanted a child, but I never got the idea he needed or wanted Shiv to be some kind of lesser person.  I think one can want a strong person to support them. 

I don't think Tom wants a traditional housewife, but in season 2, when Shiv told Tom that Logan was going to name her his successor, Tom felt that he deserved the role over her, and that thought she was to be helping him up the corporate ladder. As for having children, his insistence on having children seemed more like having an anchor baby to solidify his role in the family.