S03.E06: Sunflowers

[One Imaginary Girl]

Nah, me too.  I think they are ODing on the whimsicality.  

[Capricasix]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Brendan Hunt seems like a very nice, intelligent guy (saw him on Celebrity Jeopardy) but I think this episode would have resonated better with more of us if a woman had been asked to at least suggest a few edits.

(Trying this again bc I’ve already posted this twice, but it hasn’t shown up in the thread - weird 🤔)

Okay but, to be fair, we’re not privy to what goes on in the writers’ room. According to IMDb, there were two female writers on this episode (one of whom also plays Bex); they must have had some input into the storylines 🤷🏽‍♀️

[shapeshifter]

7 minutes ago, Capricasix said:

Okay but, to be fair, we’re not privy to what goes on in the writers’ room. According to IMDb, there were two female writers on this episode (one of whom also plays Bex); they must have had some input into the storylines 🤷🏽‍♀️

Yeah. I may be wrong in assuming this is a gender perspective thing. The on-screen credits give Brendan Hunt single credit for the "teleplay," but, yeah, there were others credited with the story.
More likely those of us who were taken out of the suspension of disbelief of the episode have reasons/experiences beyond just our gender. 

The pillow fight was just as much a WTH? bit for me, but not something for which I had any personal experiences of which it reminded me.

[Crs97]

I’m surprised at the number of people who loved this, considering how many hated Beard’s night out.  I found the two episodes very similar and liked - but didn’t love - both.

[Schweedie]

14 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

I’m surprised at the number of people who loved this, considering how many hated Beard’s night out.  I found the two episodes very similar and liked - but didn’t love - both.

I think the main difference between them is that that was just Beard. Here, we got everyone. Rebecca's part wasn't my favourite, although I enjoyed it, and if this episode had been just about her I wouldn't have loved it anywhere near as much. But we got so much character stuff for everyone here, most of it very sweet and not just wild like much of Beard's episode was, and that's what did it for me.

[anniebird]

4 hours ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

Nah, me too.  I think they are ODing on the whimsicality.  

You say that like it's a bad thing. People like this show because of that, not in spite of it.

[DEL901]

Rebecca’s mystery man. 
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2114593/

…with hair.

 

[Capricasix]

36 minutes ago, anniebird said:

You say that like it's a bad thing. People like this show because of that, not in spite of it.

Honestly, Ted’s triangles vision reminded me of the scene in Ratatouille when Remy tried to help his brother visualize taste - and I loved it. Ratatouille is tied with Wall-E as my favourite Pixar movie.

[Electruck]

Funny, I was aimlessly browsing a clothing resale site and came across the floral sundress Rebecca wore courtesy of HDG’s ex. It’s by The Great in case anyone is interested.

[Kel Varnsen]

There were a few little things I really liked. The reminder of how Jamie being much younger (and still on the team) is way more physically fit than Roy. Him tiring Roy out (when Roy was the one pushing for more training) was funny. 

I also thought it was interesting that one of Colin's big worries is that even if his team mates accept him, he doesn't want to be the spokesperson for gay football players, he just wants to live his life. I am glad though there was never any suggestion that Trent might out him in his book. They have always portrayed Trent as a real, legit journalist. Not some trashy tabloid reporter who would out someone for a story or to sell books 

On 4/19/2023 at 8:11 AM, Capricasix said:

There’s a bit of history between Ottawa (capital of 🇨🇦) and the Netherlands as far as tulips go. During WW2, some members of the Dutch royal family took refuge in Canada, and the Dutch queen gave birth to her daughter in an Ottawa hospital (which was temporarily designated Dutch soil so she wouldn’t have Canadian citizenship). 

That's a great story, the only correction is that it wasn't the queen who gave birth in Ottawa it was the crown princess. The citizenship thing is interesting since the baby would have been heir to the Dutch thrown and if the baby was a Canadian citizen there would be that whole loyalty to the British throne thing.

[Capricasix]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

That's a great story, the only correction is that it wasn't the queen who gave birth in Ottawa it was the crown princess.

I stand corrected!

[pennben]

Just rewatched, after a few cocktails (so may delete in morning:)), this really is an ultimate reset episode where they take them away from home.  Ted figures out how to be a coach again, Rebecca remembers what a spark with a good man looks like, team comes back together with fun, Colin finally at least knows he has support, Wil gets a mentor & is growing up, Roy/Jamie are getting healthier, Nate misses out because he's still lost, Higgins & Beard just reconfirm how totally adjusted and awesome they are in their own skin. Keeley is out of this world....for better or worse, we aren't sure yet.  

Now, let's see what happens when they get home for the rest of the season.  Resolutions can be made on roadtrips/vacations, but then you come home to all of the issues.  Ultimately doesn't matter if Rebecca gets back with boat guy, just keeps within herself a new belief....and on and on (for each character)....which is perhaps why ultimately not important they knew each others names.  Acting on what you felt & discovered in that night is really the cliffhanger.  Will each and everyone build on that?  Even boat guy, even if we never see him again!

 

[rlc]

What a marvelous hour (+) of tv!

[Sailorgirl26]

On 4/21/2023 at 10:59 AM, Crs97 said:

I have no issues with rom com’s.  I just hate that her meet cute is her doing everything we drill into our children not to 

But Rebecca is not a child without life experience that has shaped rational decision making capability and intuitive awareness.

You cannot compare Rebecca's decision making process here to "what we teach our children." 

If every female adult treated every unexpected interaction as a stranger danger situation, I couldn't even hazard a guess as to how many relationships and families would not exist in this world. 

Adults meet people in awkward situations all the time and make judgement calls as to the depth of the interaction based on previous life experiences and what they generally know about people. 

This is part of the "trust your gut" portion of things that we are also hopefully "teaching our children." You learn to trust your gut by past mistakes.

Rebecca is neither a child nor stupid. 

This entire debate over the appropriateness of her evening completely disregards her capacities as an adult woman who has lived life. 

Seat me at the table with those who are gobsmacked at the takeaway that Rebecca made bad choices here. 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Sailorgirl26

[Juneau Gal]

3 hours ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

But Rebecca is not a child without life experience that has shaped rational decision making capability and intuitive awareness.

You cannot compare Rebecca's decision making process here to "what we teach our children." 

If every female adult treated every unexpected interaction as a stranger danger situation, I couldn't even hazard a guess as to how many relationships and families would not exist in this world. 

Adults meet people in awkward situations all the time and make judgement call as to the depth of the interaction based on previous life experiences and what they generally know about people. 

This is part of the "trust your gut" portion of things that we are also hopefully "teaching our children." You learn to trust your gut by past mistakes.

Rebecca is neither a child nor stupid. 

This entire debate over the appropriateness of her evening completely disregards her capacities as an adult woman who has lived life. 

Seat me at the table with those who are gobsmacked at the takeaway that Rebecca made bad choices here. 

Brava to your entire post! This is an adult show for adults, but mostly it’s a comedy, a not real life look at a world where there is no pandemic, American football coaches get hired by British football clubs, people fall ass backwards into their own PR firms, and biscuits with the boss is a daily happening. We don’t need to “what about the children?!” a show with a character such as Roy fucking Kent. 
 

[meep.meep]

20 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I’m surprised at the number of people who loved this, considering how many hated Beard’s night out.  I found the two episodes very similar and liked - but didn’t love - both.

I had the same reaction while watching it.  I liked parts of it very much, but too long overall.  

[MissLucas]

If we assume that this show could give teenage girls the wrong ideas about interactions with strangers we better keep teenage boys who dream of a pro career in football away from it too.

[Crs97]

I’m not clutching my pearls about gullible children who might be watching the show; I’m saying they made Rebecca beyond stupid to be making choices even pre-teens have learned not to do.  It made her look stupid in the worst rom-com setup ever, and that’s the hill on which I’m willing to die.  Clearly YMMV.

[Lois Sandborne]

Me, in a foreign country where people are not necessarily familiar with my language and culture, I have no phone, and nobody knows quite exactly where I am, I probably wouldn't have made the same choices as Rebecca. I'm speaking as an adult woman capable of making decisions and trusting my gut. I probably would've asked for some towels and a phone, waited for my ride, and gone back to the hotel to have a bath and think about how the situation could've turned super romantic or super scary depending on what TV show I was on.

For Rebecca, character on Ted Lasso, well ... most of this made sense. Rebecca's been thinking about making changes in her life, figuring her future out, and she's been loosening up (taking the team bus even wtf). She turned down the massage and the handsome Danish brandy at first, but as she got more comfortable, she changed her mind. She eventually collected enough signs that convinced her this man was okay to spend the evening with, and she let herself go. It could've been better written, but I don't think this plot was out of line or out of character. She still should've made her own tea though.

The scene of Trent following Colin to the bar and everything that came after was wonderful. The rainbow mug paid off, and the leopard (cheetah?) print shoes returned! I'm thrilled that they both now have someone to confide in at Nelson Road.

Higgins and Will on a Chet Baker pilgrimage was extremely delightful. Hand claps for the return of Leslie's Jazz Hair.

I loved Ted at the Van Gogh museum. I know this makes me incredibly unique, but Van Gogh is one of my favorite painters. The docent dropping one morsel of wisdom on Ted, hearing him wax poetic about sunflowers, giving him the journal, and kicking him out was such a charming little sequence. And I also loved the serendipity of Ted using the journal later when he had his triangles epiphany. Hail, Coach Lasso. I was a little irritated when Beard immediately identified it as some Dutch thing though. Beard, friend, if you know so much about esoteric soccer strategy where has that expertise been all season?

Roy is right; Amsterdam always looks like a little storybook village on screen. I'll have to get there and see for myself what it looks like in real life.

And finally, Arthur Bryant's is the worst barbecue sauce Kansas City has to offer. It tastes like ashes. I'm disgruntled whenever it's featured on this international television program. Thank you for coming to my Ted Lasso talk.

[Holmbo]

I loved this episode and I hope I will feel the same about the upcoming ones.

I enjoyed the Rebecca storyline. To me it read as if she thought this guy was really attractive and because of that she enjoyed his interest in her and decided to stick around. It's not meant as advice, it's just what she felt like doing and I didn't find it unbelievable considering the place she's at. She wanted to let go of a bit because she's been obsessed about being in control since her divorce. I'm positive it will not lead to anything further though. It's just about showing Rebecca what's possible.

Normally I would dislike this "successful middle-aged woman is craving romantic partner and child" storyline but with this one it doesn't feel cliche and I'm invested. Possibly it's partly due to most of my friends are currently having fertility concerns of different kinds so I'm more open to this storyline because of that.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Holmbo

[meep.meep]

8 hours ago, Lois Sandborne said:

Me, in a foreign country where people are not necessarily familiar with my language and culture, I have no phone, and nobody knows quite exactly where I am, I probably wouldn't have made the same choices as Rebecca. 

Everyone in Amsterdam speaks English.  The bum stealing the bicycles for Jamie and Roy spoke perfect English.  The culture is not very different from what Rebecca is used to, other than dedicated bicycle lanes apparently.  

I was convinced that her clothing would have shrunk after 5 hours in a dryer.  Plus it all looked dry clean only and god knows she can afford that.

After thinking about it, I think the episode would have been better if they had left out the parts where the team decided what to do together, just have people peel off in groups, then follow those groups.  

[DearEvette]

If the last episode was a strikeout, this one was a grand slam home run.  I think I watched it with the biggest, stupidest, sappiest grin on my face.

I loved the different groupings and how different all of their nights went and how each one kinda, imo, represented the different things one does when one goes to on a trip to a new place.

Higgins and Will's - represented a personal pilgrimage.  Higgins needing to see where Chet Baker died and of course being in a jazz club listening to his favorite music.  Live jazz clubs are an eco system all their own.  Personally this would have been the one that if I had to pick, it was where I'd go.

Colin and Trent - represented an opportunity to peel off a mask and be a bit freer in a place no one knows you.  I loved their conversation with Collin explaining his state of mind.  I loved learning a little more about Trent.

Jamie and Roy - represented the simple pleasure of sightseeing.  But because they are Jamie and Roy it becomes deeper than that.  I LOVED their part the best because they hit so many great emotional beats -- funny, poignant, sentimental...

Ted - represented the instinct to find something familiar amongst the strangeness.  I thought that American restaurant was kinda freaky, tbh.  But I liked the use of it as a vehicle for Ted having his epiphany.

Rebecca - represented the cliche vacation fling.  Altho, what went down between her and that really hot boat dude wasn't at all a fling.  I loved the quiet intimacy of what they were able to create in that one night.  This was really a great lesson in how to showcase instant chemistry that was sorely missing in the Jack/Keeley scenes from the previous episode.

The Team - represents that sort of indecisiveness that brings you to a standstill when you have too many options.  I have been missing these sorts of scenes with them all season.  I found their night the funniest of them all. I loved it.  They were so over the top, but the pillow fight in the end was just so damned wholesome.

Other stuff... I loved the usage of both 'Let's Get Lost' and 'Everything's Gonna Be Alright.'

Roy's shutting that report down in the beginning.  Dude, you can't come for Roy Fucking Kent!

Honestly, did not miss Keeley at all.

 

[ML89]

Loved Higgins and Will in search of Chet Baker, and Roy and Jamie and their homage to Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid (that was seriously great). Rebecca and her rescuer were not my cup of tea and brandy but Colin and Trent were terrific. I did love the montage, which was fantastic with the great song choice. I have been in that convo among the team, trying to decide where to go - except not those choices!

I do have a question, though, about the triangle offense being “created” for Michael Jordan because, while I know little about basketball, I have seen the 30 for 30 “Survive and Advance”  (about the NC State ‘83 team) many times and they mention a triangle offense or defense?
 

I so enjoyed that Ted’s first Chicago reference was the musical…and the “American portions” with the mountain of onion rings.  

 

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by ML89

[Hava]

With a few exceptions, I thought this episode was pretty terrible :(

[paramitch]

I liked this one a lot, and loved little moments. Plus a few that frustrated and angered me. I still think the writing is wildly inconsistent this season, and often feels forced to me in ways that felt effortless to me previously.

For example, I loved Rebecca's interlude—with the sole exception of her asking him in the morning if they slept together. I mean, show, really? They had a few drinks but we saw no evidence they weren't sober at the end of the night, much less blackout drunk, when Hot Dutch Guy properly and respectfully covered her up and went off to his own cabin. I mean, adding that question from her is so gross. Would Rebecca really ask that, given that we can see no reason for her to think that in any way, and did we need to see her ask it? And did we need him to make that awkward "Yes, we did" statement after?

I totally admit that when I watched it, I absolutely thought he was implying that they did, and he had lied to Rebecca with his first answer. Like it was supposed to be romantic that he remembered and she didn't, or some such bullshit. I was befuddled and grossed out, and it honestly ruined the episode for me at the time.

So y'all have made me feel much, much better on that front (thank you!) -- and I agree that the writing was probably attempting (badly and awkwardly) that she was written to ask that so that we could get the ham-handed answer from Hot Dutch Guy that "something" had happened -- meaning, he'd fallen in love. Not sex between two drunk adults.

I still think was unnecessary and is just plain shitty writing. I hate that Rebecca was written to ask that question, and I think his answer was awkward and unintentionally skeevy and kind of ruins their lovely interlude. I've already seen a lot of press out there involving how confusing many viewers found the moment. Although I am doing my best not to let it ruin it, since I really did think their evening was so charming and believable.

Anyway, rant over.

Meanwhile, I loved Leslie & Will, loved loved loved Roy and Jamie so much (and was so moved by Jamie's patience and kindness with Roy), loved Ted's lonely walk through the Van Gogh museum (although him not having that evening with Beard feels manufactured and totally like a missed opportunity for bromance). I was a little frustrated that Ted went to that horrible restaurant, but I guess Ted is absolutely more the "accidental tourist" type who would be soothed by Americana, so -- shrug.

I wanted to love the ending singalong but it, and Beard's outfit, felt forced to me (like "Hey! Everything Beard does is wacky, right?!"). And the fact that the guys were in this beautiful city and just ended up having a pillowfight wasn't cute, it frustrated me. Have a pillowfight in, I don't know, Des Moines, but don't have one in such a beautiful place, sheesh, people. At least Ted went to the Van Gogh museum and Trent referenced the Anne Frank house.

I would honestly have been happier if the guys had biked out to see some tulips.

More in reactions to other comments, below. 

On 4/18/2023 at 11:12 PM, pennben said:

She most certainly did not. When she asked & he said no, he was responding to her implied question.  When he then commented that they did to himself, it was in the more romantic version that of course last night they found chemistry, connection, electricity, whatnot between them.

I think this is probably true, and a very smart inference, but I have to say that I didn't find it clearly presented at all. I found it so fricking problematic in how it was handled. Ugh.

All that had to happen was for them to say goodbye... and then end politely while also showing that they hate for their time together to end. That's it. Maybe she walks off, he smiles as she looks back, then his daughter calls. Etc. Both look sad but also happy. Etc.

On 4/19/2023 at 9:21 AM, iMonrey said:

From your fingertips to the writers' ears. But I thought it was really rather ambiguous.

Exactly. And it didn't need to be.

On 4/19/2023 at 9:01 AM, PurpleTentacle said:

She made a judgement call and it paid off. Most people will not drug and rape you. You are supposed to keep an eye on your glass at a bar, because out of the 1000 people there it's likely that one is a rapist and they'll seize an opportunity, but if you meet one guy randomly while falling into a canal, the odds are very, very low.

This is very well put, and I did feel like the entire thing was reasonably well set up. Rebecca is a strong, smart woman with pretty good radar. Yes, we all need to be on guard, but I felt like Hot Dutch Guy was both kind and respectful, and in ways that I found refreshingly European and unique from the usual U.S. approach. I loved him giving her the chance to shower and relax and have some tea in total privacy. The note on the mug was a joke, although she could certainly have been cautious and not drunk the tea. The entire evening, he was courteous and supportive and managed not to make it skeevy. I didn't find it creepy at all -- he asked her several times throughout the night what she wanted and how she felt, so I loved the moment when they were both simply having fun together and poured water on her clothes so they wouldn't be dry.

This interlude reminded me of one deep and intense moment I had in Europe. Not romantic, but of temporary friendship and companionship -- a beautiful all-night conversation on a train to Copenhagen with two strangers, an older man from Singapore and a young businesswoman from Berlin. We sat there in a single compartment and talked intensely for over eight hours -- it started with being about work, but ended up being about life, and art, and what we wished for from life, etc.

It remains one of the most beautiful conversations of my life, and at the end we all wished each other all the best things in life, and went onward. I didn't think to ask them their email addresses but it's such a wonderful memory for me, and my favorite part is still the memory of my own naivete, of how "American" I was and how that had sort of shielded and corrupted me simultaneously. Rebecca's interlude reminded me a lot of that in an odd way.

On 4/19/2023 at 9:28 AM, dmeets said:

Not sure how serious they are (he had no issue pretending to be Colin's straight wingman) but I didn't necessarily think Colin was looking for a hookup. I just figured he felt like being in a place where he could feel totally free to be himself around, as opposed to either watch strangers have sex or bus two hours away to a Martin Garrix party. Now had he suspected it'd devolve into a giant pillow fight instead he may have stuck it out 😄

Hopefully Colin gets that big win and opportunity to kiss his fella, whoever he may be.

I definitely understood Colin going to the gay bar. He seems pretty serious with his boyfriend back home (although to me they seem like they are doing that "we won't admit how serious we are yet" thing), but even beyond that, this would have been a place where he felt safe and accepted, not living a lie. I know he loves the team, but his monologue to Trent was so beautiful about how much of himself he has to hide. 

I do hope he doesn't hook up with Trent. I adore Trent, but Colin is like 20+ years younger, and the show needs to stop going to that well, honestly.

On 4/19/2023 at 9:33 AM, shapeshifter said:

But Ted then seems to have seen the Fibonacci pattern in the sunflower, which is derived from Pascal's triangle:

That is definitely my favorite interpretation of Ted's fascination with the 'triangle' pattern -- I love how it links the two. I definitely think he felt more than just "oh look, our state flower" there and seemed genuinely moved. I still wish he'd been there with Beard -- I think it would have been beautiful to see the two of them experience the museum and dinner and then get inspired by them together.

On 4/19/2023 at 9:41 AM, shapeshifter said:

I guess that explains Rebecca's most-terrible-question-asked-by-a-woman-written-by-men. 
So she's talking about feeling an intimate closeness without any physical morning afterness? 
And Brendan Hunt is poking fun at all those horrible morning after questions ever written by men for female characters to say?

Ugh. Shame on Brendan Hunt. I was furious at the question and bad writing. Look, I won't go into the icky details but speaking as a woman, there are many physical signifiers of whether something sexual happened whether or not we were conscious the next morning, and let's just say that if Rebecca had had any serious worry about that? She wouldn't have asked him with a perky look of happy wistful "good morning-ness" but rather of "did you sleep with my unconscious body last night?"

I hate hate hate hate that the show included the question. I'm still so angry. It's insulting and unnecessary and adds a gross epilogue to a pitch-perfect, sweet, respectful interlude.

Want to kill a romcom mood? Have the woman ask the guy hesitantly afterward if they had sex the night before and she simply doesn't remember it. (Side note: I forgive Working Girl for it, because she EXPECTS the answer to be yes, due to her culture and upbringing, and is shocked that it isn't (and that Jack would never even think of that), so I kind of love it there, as an exception.)

Bonus demerits for Rebecca looking almost hopeful there. Really, show? Dammit.

On 4/19/2023 at 8:53 PM, pennben said:

It honestly never occurred to me to be anything other than him saying there was a connection there between them that night, nothing more, until I started reading here and elsewhere about questions about his response.

I cannot tell you how horrified I will be if I interpreted that wrongly. 

Yeah, this was me in the moment, seeing it the first way. Utterly horrified.

On 4/19/2023 at 11:01 AM, angora said:

Echoing all the love for this episode. Every storyline worked for me. Everything about Jamie and Roy was spectacular--even at the start, when Jamie was just running around cheerfully pointing out all the landmarks while Roy glowered and struggled to keep up, I absolutely loved it. Then introducing the idea of finding a real windmill, then the bikes, then *Jamie teaching Roy how to ride a bike* ("I can't turn the other way!"), and then Jamie and Roy opening up to each other? Just tremendous from top to bottom. And I don't care that people don't really do that in real life, I laughed every time Roy tipped straight over like a book falling over on a shelf.

Great conversation between Colin and Trent. What Colin said about the "ache" was so poignant, and I liked Trent acknowledging that he can sympathize, but he knows that Colin's profession puts him in a different position than Trent. As someone mentioned upthread, I like that *after* they had their sad/supportive conversation, they went back to the bar and spent the rest of the night having fun.

My favorite part with Roy and Jam-eh was the two of them finally riding the bikes together and then sharing that conversation. I was glad Roy apologized for his rudeness and also so proud of Jamie for being so kind, thoughtful, and patient. I was also so sad at Jamie's recollections of his poisonous father. Good lord. No wonder Roy is the father he always wanted. Roy is grumpy but such a good person, and Jamie sees that. Jamie has had such a fantastic arc, and Phil Dunster doesn't get enough credit for all the nuance, heart, and humor he brings him.

What always moves me tremendously is the revelation from Brett Goldstein that until Keeley and Ted,

Spoiler

Roy had planned to kill himself when he retired from football

believing he had nothing left to give anyone. Now Roy has this incredible life of work, friends, family, and yes, Keeley (I still don't forgive the show for the stupid faux breakup storyline). It's very moving to me. And for me, Jamie is a part of that continued process. I think Roy cares deeply for Jamie now (and obviously, vice versa), and it's one more brick in the foundation of a life Roy never expected, but it's lovely.

On 4/19/2023 at 2:00 PM, PurpleTentacle said:

I still think the perfect configuration for them is a thruple. I will die on that hill.

I could get behind a Roy/Keeley/Jamie throuple except that Roy and Jamie are so parental, that's the part that would be skeevy for me. Roy is so obviously the father Jamie always wanted. So -- sigh -- I cannot ship the throuple.

On 4/19/2023 at 9:24 PM, Turtle Wexler said:

I’m honestly confused as to why a number of people think that Rebecca and the Dutch guy had sex. We clearly see him realize she’s fallen asleep; he puts the blanket over her and goes to his bedroom and slides the door closed. 

She asks the next morning without being direct, but he figures it out and says “No.” His later “we did,” is returning to his use/explanation of “gezellig,” and is in reference to, as others have pointed out, their emotional connection. Rebecca and he dumped water on her clothes so they’d have to dry even longer than the 2:49; while the long drying time initially annoyed Rebecca, she realized how much she was enjoying his company and didn’t want to leave. 

This show has never been shy about making it clear that people have had sex/are going to have sex. If the writers wanted Rebecca and the guy to have sex, they would have made it obvious. It strains credulity that they’d go for a plot line about nonconsensual sex. (Especially in an episode where Roy asks Jamie about being traumatized by his visit to the brothel at 14.) If they were to do that, more than 6 episodes would be needed to address the ramifications.

I disagree. The show showed us one thing, then had Rebecca DIRECTLY ask "did something happen last night?" instantly turning something sweet into something potentially icky (see my rant above).

The show is wonderful and I love it, but it has also had some astoundingly tone-deaf moments when it comes to sex and relationships -- Sassy kamikaze-ing Ted the night of his divorce, Rebecca and Sam, Keeley and Jack, and now potentially Nate and Jade. I was worrying this whole ep, too, about Trent and Colin because I really do not want them to hook up either -- there's the age difference issue, the power differentials, the fact that Colin is a potential subject/interviewee in Trent's book, etc.

I recognize that life is messy and nothing is perfect, but Sassy continuing with a FWB with Ted when he's not built that way did kind of hit me the wrong way, and while I was okay with Rebecca/Sam (guardedly, due to their characters and chemistry and goodness), I did think  it was not a desirable situation for multiple reasons. Now I feel like the show wants us to ship Nate with the woman who was blatantly belittling and cruel to him (and his parents) just because she could be, I guess, because... yay Nate? I don't get it.

So Rebecca ASKING the HDG "did we have sex?" Sorry. Still furious about it. I know I ranted earlier but it still enrages me. it's not responsible writing for this particular mood and situation.

On 4/20/2023 at 8:28 AM, funnygirl said:

Which I guess tracks with Keeley who somehow has been dumbed down this season with not knowing a thing about her own PR firm. She couldn't take a six week holiday with boyfriend Roy because she wanted to focus on starting her business, but what did she do in all that time? Pick out office decoration?! 

Keeley's story is so maddening and unbelievable this season. I hate all of it. Love the confirmation that she is bi, hate that she is sleeping with the OWNER/PRIMARY INVESTER OF HER COMPANY, aghgh. Hate the inconsistency, hate her dour drab office and dour drab personnel -- no way Keeley wouldn't have a bright, vivid office filled with smart, outgoing colorful extroverts kicking ass.

Instead her office looks like an outtake from "Severance" and this episode she's lamely shuttled off with her icky boundary-crossing boss to canoodle under the aurora borealis instead of having lovely real bonding with the team and her friends.

On 4/22/2023 at 5:16 AM, Sailorgirl26 said:

If every female adult treated every unexpected interaction as a stranger danger situation, I couldn't even hazard a guess as to how many relationships and families would not exist in this world. 

Adults meet people in awkward situations all the time and make judgement call as to the depth of the interaction based on previous life experiences and what they generally know about people. 

This is part of the "trust your gut" portion of things that we are also hopefully "teaching our children." You learn to trust your gut by past mistakes.

Rebecca is neither a child nor stupid. 

This entire debate over the appropriateness of her evening completely disregards her capacities as an adult woman who has lived life. 

Seat me at the table with those who are gobsmacked at the takeaway that Rebecca made bad choices here. 

I agree, and nicely said. I didn't think Rebecca made bad choices here, and felt instead that she made the choices and took the risks that, well, plenty of people take in going home with someone for the night. She was careful and cautious, HDG was respectful and funny and smart, and they had a believably lovely evening. Yes, this could have been a nightmare scenario, but I believe (and I do think the show believes) that the vast majority of people are good, and this was a sunny, sweet scenario that I didn't find out of reach. Until her last horrible morning-after question, utterly killing the rom-com mood with a thousand ice buckets.

(Yeah, still angry. Sorry. I'll get over it eventually.)

Edited April 24, 2023 by paramitch
added Working Girl reference, oops

[Crs97]

1 hour ago, paramitch said:

I wanted to love the ending singalong but it, and Beard's outfit, felt forced to me (like "Hey! Everything Beard does is wacky, right?!").

As much as I love Hannah’s voice, Rebecca is coming close to breaking out in song a little too much for me.

[Capricasix]

@paramitch, you know I always love your considered and thought-provoking posts! 👏🏼

[Lois Sandborne]

18 hours ago, meep.meep said:

Everyone in Amsterdam speaks English.  The bum stealing the bicycles for Jamie and Roy spoke perfect English.  The culture is not very different from what Rebecca is used to, other than dedicated bicycle lanes apparently.  

Well, I was speaking about myself there. So on an internet forum, I'll take your word for it. If I ever make it to the Netherlands and get stuck or stranded, I'm not going to take that for granted.

1 hour ago, paramitch said:

I loved Rebecca's interlude—with the sole exception of her asking him in the morning if they slept together. I mean, show, really? They had a few drinks but we saw no evidence they weren't sober at the end of the night, much less blackout drunk, when Hot Dutch Guy properly and respectfully covered her up and went off to his own cabin. I mean, adding that question from her is so gross. Would Rebecca really ask that, given that we can see no reason for her to think that in any way, and did we need to see her ask it? And did we need him to make that awkward "Yes, we did" statement after?

I really wanted to mention this, but I thought my post was already too long. So thanks for bringing it up! I agree that this part was very badly written, for the reasons you said. In fact when I first watched the episode I missed the moment of Mr. Amsterdam saying, "Yes we did" because I was ranting about Rebecca even asking that question. She wasn't drunk when she fell asleep, so she didn't pass out, and she woke up, presumably, alone on a couch. Implying that anything sexual could've happened was a terrible choice. I'm pretty sure that from those lines we are meant to assume that what "happened" between them was enchantment and romance and maybe even fate. But they sullied the moment quite badly for me.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, paramitch said:

...Ugh. Shame on Brendan Hunt. I was furious at the question and bad writing. Look, I won't go into the icky details but speaking as a woman, there are many physical signifiers of whether something sexual happened whether or not we were conscious the next morning, and let's just say that if Rebecca had had any serious worry about that? She wouldn't have asked him with a perky look of happy wistful "good morning-ness" but rather of "did you sleep with my unconscious body last night?"

I hate hate hate hate that the show included the question. I'm still so angry. It's insulting and unnecessary and adds a gross epilogue to a pitch-perfect, sweet, respectful interlude.

Want to kill a romcom mood? Have the woman ask the guy hesitantly afterward if they had sex the night before and she simply doesn't remember it. (Side note: I forgive Working Girl for it, because she EXPECTS the answer to be yes, due to her culture and upbringing, and is shocked that it isn't (and that Jack would never even think of that), so I kind of love it there, as an exception.)

Bonus demerits for Rebecca looking almost hopeful there. Really, show? Dammit.

Yeah, this was me in the moment, seeing it the first way. Utterly horrified....

Thank you, @paramitch, for the frankness of your post, especially with regards to female physicality. 
Since my post upthread was the only other one that addressed this aspect, and there was so much outrage expressed across social media about anyone being at all confused by the disconnect between the facts of a woman's physicality and the "did we" question, I was beginning to doubt that I was normal. 

Too bad, IMO, that line and his response were not either cut or elaborated upon.

[Capricasix]

I still laugh at Rebecca’s concern about a “giant Dutch woman” - Hannah W has to be six feet tall at least! 😄 That’s a giant from my five-foot-nothing perspective. I don’t generally mind my lack of height, but there are times when I wish I were a couple inches taller, like when I’m trying to get something off a shelf and I need to employ either a stepstool or a pair of kitchen tongs to attain my objective 😄

[MissLucas]

32 minutes ago, Capricasix said:

I still laugh at Rebecca’s concern about a “giant Dutch woman” - Hannah W has to be six feet tall at least! 😄

The Dutch are statistically the tallest nation in the world but you're right Rebecca would fit in nicely. HW is 1.8 m that's actually above the average Dutch woman (1.7 m).

[MicheleinPhilly]

3 hours ago, paramitch said:

Now I feel like the show wants us to ship Nate with the woman who was blatantly belittling and cruel to him (and his parents) just because she could be, I guess, because... yay Nate? I don't get it.

Is anyone really shipping Nate with anyone though? He's pretty much universally reviled so I don't know how much people care about his love life. 

[Capricasix]

17 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

The Dutch are statistically the tallest nation in the world but you're right Rebecca would fit in nicely. HW is 1.8 m that's actually above the average Dutch woman (1.7 m).

Likely why they’re champion speed skaters 😄 That and the canals!

[MartyQui]

OK. What if Rebecca’s “Did We”…was…did we fall in love.  Because I absolutely think that for one night they did.

[Capricasix]

2 hours ago, MartyQui said:

OK. What if Rebecca’s “Did We”…was…did we fall in love.  Because I absolutely think that for one night they did.

Ooh I like that!

[MMLEsq]

On 4/20/2023 at 2:02 AM, pennben said:

Just flashed back to long ago soap General Hospital. I remember how Luke & Laura getting married was a moment & rating shattering event. And then remembered it was after him raping her. How screwed up were we way back when!!!!  Lordy, Lordy, Lordy, but I was rooting for the wedding at the time. How in the hell was that ever conceived as a storyline & how on gods green earth did we see it as a love story for the ages???  Im embarrassed for younger me!

In the original episode, it was portrayed as Luke raping her, and although the show initially played it as such, the event was later looked back on as a “seduction” due to the popularity of the pairing.  (There was an episode where Laura remembers the event and realizes it wasn't "rape.")  So, GH kind of rewrote history there -- that's how (theoretically) viewers were able to view it as a love story.

Back to Ted Lasso, I find it fascinating that people have such polar opposite views on what happened between Rebecca and the Dutch guy.  I'm in the camp of:  she had a bit to drink (fell asleep, didn't pass out), and "nothing happened."  Except that they shared a genuine connection, which is what I think the Dutch guy was referring to at the end.  Due to the scene with the psychic, my guess is that this isn't the last we've seen of the Dutch guy, but I refuse to go looking for spoilers/information on the cast in future episodes.

I've been to Amsterdam twice, and I'm going to be back there in July (taking a cruise to Norway that starts and ends in Amsterdam).  Watching this episode got me excited to go back and re-visit some of the things shown in this episode (like the Van Gogh museum).     

[Capricasix]

Because I get stupidly chuffed about things like this…😄

[Blakeston]

I don't think Rebecca and the Dutch guy had sex, because this isn't the kind of show that would feature such a dark plotline.

But I think the writing of their final exchange was terrible. Rebecca was clearly asking if they'd had sex. Him saying no, and then saying "yes we did!" as soon as she was out of earshot, was naturally going to lead some viewers to think he was talking about sex. (On a drama, that would be the most straightforward explanation by far.) 

There were many, many ways to unambiguously convey that he was referring to emotional connection and not sex. For example, she could have asked, "Did something...happen last night?" And he could respond, "We didn't have sex." And then once she left, he could have said, "We didn't have sex, but something happened all right!"

Why not just phrase it that way? I found their wording pretty strange to say that least. 

(Also, I don't think him closing the door after rubbing her feet is proof that nothing sexual happened. It's not like he couldn't have come back into the room later. Again, I'm not arguing that sex happened. I'm saying that it should have occurred to the writers how this could come across.)

Edited April 26, 2023 by Blakeston

[Turtle Wexler]

On 4/20/2023 at 3:44 PM, Ilovepie said:

But can someone explain why that dryer was taking 5 hours to dry her clothes? And I'm not talking about when they threw more water on them to keep it going. Are dryers really low energy in europe or something?

Yes. 😝

[Dobian]

I'm late to the party with this, but for some reason, this episode wasn't doing it for me, and felt like more filler in the first half. Then suddenly, something clicked, and it became great.  I especially liked the Higgins and Will segments, and Higgins on bass was the highlight of the episode.

[DrQuack32]

I've been trying to Shazam a song in the episode but it does not register.
It's in the boat scene when Rebecca is nosying around the boat.
Its the little melody that plays. Comes in at about 14:40 when she says 'Hello?' and plays for about a minute

Edited April 27, 2023 by DrQuack32

[SnarkShark]

That was exceptional, in every way possible.  This definitely should be the Emmy submission.

[MissLucas]

I always thought the speed of dryers in US shows and movies was fictional - apparently I was wrong.

[paramitch]

On 4/24/2023 at 5:30 AM, Capricasix said:

@paramitch, you know I always love your considered and thought-provoking posts! 👏🏼

This was so kind, and really made my day during a tough week! Thank you.

On 4/24/2023 at 5:37 AM, Lois Sandborne said:

In fact when I first watched the episode I missed the moment of Mr. Amsterdam saying, "Yes we did" because I was ranting about Rebecca even asking that question. She wasn't drunk when she fell asleep, so she didn't pass out, and she woke up, presumably, alone on a couch. Implying that anything sexual could've happened was a terrible choice. I'm pretty sure that from those lines we are meant to assume that what "happened" between them was enchantment and romance and maybe even fate. But they sullied the moment quite badly for me.

Well said -- this is how I felt too. I'm relieved to know that the darker interpretation wasn't what the show seems to have intended, but I still think it was just terribly written, especially these days.

On 4/24/2023 at 6:23 AM, shapeshifter said:

Thank you, @paramitch, for the frankness of your post, especially with regards to female physicality. 
Since my post upthread was the only other one that addressed this aspect, and there was so much outrage expressed across social media about anyone being at all confused by the disconnect between the facts of a woman's physicality and the "did we" question, I was beginning to doubt that I was normal. 

Too bad, IMO, that line and his response were not either cut or elaborated upon.

Oh, no, you weren't alone! I did see some other debates about this (and reviewers rightfully calling it out as unclear, and that we have to choose which outcome to believe, as well).

TVline said it best for me:

There is no indication that they’ve had sex. And yet, the following morning, Rebecca asks, “Did we…?” The Man With No Name says “no.” But as soon as she leaves, he has a different answer. “‘Did we…?’ Oh, yes, we did,” he says to himself, which is a weird note to end on — no matter how you spin it. It’s also strange that Rebecca would have to ask. Did she ever appear blackout drunk? Surely, she would have remembered if they had sex. We’re happy that she’s happy (see: “Three Little Birds”) but we’re going to need some clarity here.

On 4/24/2023 at 6:33 AM, Capricasix said:

I still laugh at Rebecca’s concern about a “giant Dutch woman” - Hannah W has to be six feet tall at least! 😄 That’s a giant from my five-foot-nothing perspective. I don’t generally mind my lack of height, but there are times when I wish I were a couple inches taller, like when I’m trying to get something off a shelf and I need to employ either a stepstool or a pair of kitchen tongs to attain my objective 😄

I laughed out loud at this too -- Hannah is a tall gorgeous woman herself! (Also, I laughed again because kitchen tongs are seriously the multitasker of the kitchen when you need to get to out-of-reach things!)

On 4/24/2023 at 7:17 AM, MicheleinPhilly said:

Is anyone really shipping Nate with anyone though? He's pretty much universally reviled so I don't know how much people care about his love life. 

I've seen a lot of people shipping him with Jade. Which still makes me feel weird, since she was so cruel to him.

On 4/24/2023 at 7:29 AM, Capricasix said:

Likely why they’re champion speed skaters 😄 That and the canals!

I just learned something from this! I had no idea speed skaters tend to be really tall! (I had to go and Google it!) But it makes sense, now that I think about it.

On 4/24/2023 at 6:23 PM, MartyQui said:

OK. What if Rebecca’s “Did We”…was…did we fall in love.  Because I absolutely think that for one night they did.

I think that is what writer Brendan Hunt intended, absolutely. I just think the execution was horrible.

On 4/25/2023 at 9:48 AM, Capricasix said:

Because I get stupidly chuffed about things like this…😄

I love this so much! How awesome.

On 4/26/2023 at 3:37 AM, Blakeston said:

But I think the writing of their final exchange was terrible. Rebecca was clearly asking if they'd had sex. Him saying no, and then saying "yes we did!" as soon as she was out of earshot, was naturally going to lead some viewers to think he was talking about sex. (On a drama, that would be the most straightforward explanation by far.) 

There were many, many ways to unambiguously convey that he was referring to emotional connection and not sex. For example, she could have asked, "Did something...happen last night?" And he could respond, "We didn't have sex." And then once she left, he could have said, "We didn't have sex, but something happened all right!"

Why not just phrase it that way? I found their wording pretty strange to say that least. 

Again, I am so glad I was not alone in my reaction on this.

On 4/26/2023 at 8:29 PM, Dobian said:

I'm late to the party with this, but for some reason, this episode wasn't doing it for me, and felt like more filler in the first half. Then suddenly, something clicked, and it became great.  I especially liked the Higgins and Will segments, and Higgins on bass was the highlight of the episode.

I felt similarly throughout, although for me it was still awkward by the end. This entire season is such a mixed bag for me. There is so much wonderfulness but also next to some very awkwardly presented moments that feel rough around the edges.

On 4/27/2023 at 4:39 PM, MissLucas said:

I always thought the speed of dryers in US shows and movies was fictional - apparently I was wrong.

And I never knew dryers in Europe were slow!

Also, honestly, as someone who grew up on sailboats in the U.S. throughout my childhood, I was just salivating over Hot Dutch Guy's GORGEOUS houseboat. And he has a DRYER in his HOUSEBOAT! I mean, that's amazing.

[Verovee]

On 4/24/2023 at 11:45 PM, Capricasix said:

Ooh I like that!

I thought it was more like did we make out / did we kiss. But also thought even that was weird because she wasn’t so drunk she’d black something out. Also was she coming out of the back room to him cooking? So if she woke on the couch and went back to pee or something had they not exchanged good mornings or hellos already?

[kwnyc]

I have used European dryers. They don't f*cking work!  ;-) that is, after a couple hours the clothes were only marginally dry. We always ended up hanging them over things overnight.

[Verovee]

2 minutes ago, kwnyc said:

I have used European dryers. They don't f*cking work!  ;-) that is, after a couple hours the clothes were only marginally dry. We always ended up hanging them over things overnight.

I’ve always thought it was interesting that my Irish in laws always hang out “the washing” to dry in the backyard given the frequency of rain. Now I get it.

[Blakeston]

On 4/27/2023 at 6:39 PM, MissLucas said:

I always thought the speed of dryers in US shows and movies was fictional - apparently I was wrong.

Is it common for your laundry to take 2 and 1/2 hours to dry?

[MissLucas]

 

13 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

Is it common for your laundry to take 2 and 1/2 hours to dry?

Yep, though I normally add the protective programming - but even without a standard fill of towels will take around 2 hours. My dryer's an older model but from what I seeing on-line 'slow European dryers' is still a topic. And the answer to the question seems to be something called 'ventless dryers' vs. 'vented dryers'? I leave that to folks with better tech knowledge to sort out.

Edited April 29, 2023 by MissLucas

[EtheltoTillie]

I think the machines are smaller than US machines, leaving less room to tumble dry the clothes/expose to air, and they also have some energy saving technology that probably puts out less heat.  I think the machine on the boat may have been a combo washer/dryer machine to save space.  Those are popular in Europe.  Then the dryer is definitely not larger than the washer, as we are used to in the US.

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by EtheltoTillie