Why Grammar Matters: A Place To Discuss Matters Of Grammar

[Sandman87]

That's the word that I heard.

 

ETA: The NewsHour's translation of a North Korean newscast tonight referred to North Korea now having a nukular weapon that has been standarized to fit on a missile.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Sandman87

[mojito]

I think Grease is closer to Cypress than Irag, but it's been awhile since I studied geology.

[Qoass]

I adore CBS Sunday Morning but if they talk about "Canadian" geese one. more. time...

[3pwood]

A political ad running endlessly on every TV channel in my area warns that proposed legislation was "purposefully" written to accomplish some dire result.  Lately, I've seen only a shortened form, which doesn't address that aspect of the issue & therefore deletes that sentence -- but the radio version is still in the long form, which causes me to flinch while driving.  Oddly, the advertiser's website shows the full text & correctly uses the word "purposely", so someone does know how to do it right.   This will go on until election day, which can't come too soon for me. 

[mojito]

@Qoass, how do you know they're not Canadian? Have you checked their birth certificates, naturalization papers, voter registration, anything? I'll bet not. 

[Qoass]

Well, no, but then again, they probably don't fly commercial...

[backformore]

I keep hearing people on TV reality shows say they are ESS-tatic (instead of ecstatic) when they win a challenge.

What's worse is when they lose.  Then they are FUSS-trated.  Or even FLUSS-trated. 

It makes me feel some kind of way when I hear it. 

; )

Edited September 25, 2016 by backformore

[Haleth]

Commentator during a football game yesterday: "He's been impressive wherever he has went."

That drives me crazy.

[atomationage]

Since the word "Literally" has come up in so many fora lately, this quote from The 5th Of July has been in my head:

June:  "She was literally stirring a bubbling cauldron and cackling through the steam"

Aunt Sally:  "She was making soap"

June:  "Yes, but from what?"

[mojito]

Quote

June:  "She was literally stirring a bubbling cauldron and cackling through the steam"

Aunt Sally:  "She was making soap"

June:  "Yes, but from what?"

I'll admit it. I don't get it. 

[kassygreene]

Soap can be rendered from body fat.  Bodies of any kind of animal have body fat.  I don't know the show or scene referenced here, but if some character has recently disappeared, it is relevant to ask from what is the soap being made?

[Ohwell]

Many years ago, I remember my mom jokingly referring to a skinny woman as a "soap grease bone" and it wasn't until I got older that I realized that she meant that the woman's body fat was gone in order to make soap.

[Sandman87]

Local news; always entertaining:

"Following the hurricane, Haiti is suffering a surge of co-laira." This was the anchor. He's in his late 40s and has been reading news for over 15 years, but doesn't know how to pronounce "cholera."

The weather guy informed us that this week the temperatures "will be a lot more less cooler."

[atomationage]

When and how and why did "unpack" and "unpacking" come into their current use as a synonym for explaining?   I was surprised to hear it on the PBS news hour yesterday. 

[Archery]

Professors used to use "unpack" in that way when I was in law school ("let's unpack the reasoning in this decision"), and that was way back in the late 80s/early 90s. 

[St. Claire]

On 10/8/2016 at 7:56 PM, atomationage said:

When and how and why did "unpack" and "unpacking" come into their current use as a synonym for explaining?   I was surprised to hear it on the PBS news hour yesterday. 

It reminds me of Schoolhouse Rock, when we would Unpack [Our] Adjectives. 

[riley702]

11 hours ago, St. Claire said:

It reminds me of Schoolhouse Rock, when we would Unpack [Our] Adjectives. 

Oh! I never thought of that! Loved Schoolhouse Rock.

[topanga]

Last night a character on "This is Us" told another character, "You look well." Granted, the person who said it was a recovering drug addict whose body is riddled with cancer, but still. The writers should know better. He wasn't telling the other character that her vision is better since the cataract surgery, thereby improving her ability to look for things. And he wasn't telling her that she looks healthy after being sick for a long time.

*sigh*

"You look well" is one of my grammar pet peeves. 

Edited October 12, 2016 by topanga

[bilgistic]

Not that this is a hill that I want to die on (and I haven't watched the episode yet), but the sentence is grammatically correct in the instance used in the show and your examples. "Well" is an adverb modifying the verb "look". Adverbs modify verbs and other adverbs. If "good" were used instead of "well", it would be a case of an adjective being used as an adverb.

However, Applebee's motto, "Eating good in the neighborhood", is grammatically incorrect no matter how you slice it.

[supposebly]

I sure hope none of my students are reading this since this is gonna be on one of their tests.....;-) 

Well can be used as both adverb and adjectives. Same goes for good. With look, they are both used as adjectives.

'look' is a linking verb, similar to 'be', 'seem', appear' which predicate with adjectives, not adverbs.

You look good. As in: not ugly.

How can you tell it's an adjective? Replace it with one you know is one: You look old.

You look well.  As in: healthy.

How can you tell it's not an adverb? Replace it with a prototypical adverb: *You look tiredly.  It doesn't work. It must be the adjective: You look tired.

And there ends the grammar lesson.

Edited October 13, 2016 by supposebly

[topanga]

13 hours ago, bilgistic said:

Not that this is a hill that I want to die on (and I haven't watched the episode yet), but the sentence is grammatically correct in the instance used in the show and your examples. "Well" is an adverb modifying the verb "look". Adverbs modify verbs and other adverbs. If "good" were used instead of "well", it would be a case of an adjective being used as an adverb.

However, Applebee's motto, "Eating good in the neighborhood", is grammatically incorrect no matter how you slice it.

I totally agree with the grammar rules. But in this scene, the character was telling the other character that she looked attractive, put-together, etc. He wasn't saying that she looked like she wasn't sick. 

[legaleagle53]

21 hours ago, bilgistic said:

Not that this is a hill that I want to die on (and I haven't watched the episode yet), but the sentence is grammatically correct in the instance used in the show and your examples. "Well" is an adverb modifying the verb "look". Adverbs modify verbs and other adverbs. If "good" were used instead of "well", it would be a case of an adjective being used as an adverb.

However, Applebee's motto, "Eating good in the neighborhood", is grammatically incorrect no matter how you slice it.

Except that "look" isn't always a transitive verb (that is, it's not always a verb that can potentially take an object).  When used intransitively as a linking verb, it takes adjectives, not adverbs.  Therefore, to say, "you look well," unless you are specifically referring to someone's physical or mental health or are actually commenting on the quality of his or her eyesight, is incorrect.  The proper phrase is always "you look good" when referring strictly to someone's physical appearance. Moreover, even when "well" IS appropriate to use in the construction, it is generally functioning as an adjective, not as an adverb (except in the rare instance that I really AM commenting upon the quality of a person's eyesight, when it IS functioning as an adverb) because "look" is still being used as a linking verb.

Edited October 13, 2016 by legaleagle53

[DeLurker]

I regularly mangle the English language - both in writing and speech - so I rarely get too worked up over word salad.  Even with my lax standards, I have heard repeatedly on news shows this morning that Hillary has a double digit lead over Trump on the latest polls.  Then they show a graphic with Hillary at 47% and Trump at 38%. 

My language shortcomings aside, my math skills are ok and a 9% lead is not a double digit!

Edited October 19, 2016 by DeLurker
To prove I am fluent in Manglish, I forgot to make regular an adverb and tossed capitalization out the window. Sadly, unintentionally.

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 9/25/2016 at 7:07 AM, Haleth said:

Commentator during a football game yesterday: "He's been impressive wherever he has went."

How old do you think the commentator was?  Usage like that used to be the province of uneducated people, but I think I'm seeing it much more frequently among young people who otherwise seem to have a pretty good grasp of the English language.

[DangerousMinds]

What is up with people used "use" instead of the "used" and similar errors? This drives me crazy every time I see it.

[shapeshifter]

I saw a commercial for Dunkin' Donuts in which pumpkin was pronounced "punkin," presumably to rhyme with "dunkin,' but it still made me want to ask the man doing the voice over singing, "How old are you?"

[Moose135]

24 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I saw a commercial for Dunkin' Donuts in which pumpkin was pronounced "punkin," presumably to rhyme with "dunkin,' but it still made me want to ask the man doing the voice over singing, "How old are you?"

But Punkin Chunkin is a thing.  And it is neat to watch if you never have.

[shapeshifter]

2 minutes ago, Moose135 said:

But Punkin Chunkin is a thing.  And it is neat to watch if you never have.

I guess we're doomed. No amount of apostrophes will turn an "n" into an "m."

[riley702]

"Don't take it personal." drives me right up the wall. It's "personally"!

[caci]

Me:  I didn't get out of work until four.

Someone:  Are you cereal?!

Me: No, I am not a breakfast food, but I am SERIOUS about getting out of work late.

I don't know if anyone else has heard that idiotic phrase, but it has become semi popular where I live.  It is right up there in stupidity with I "heart"...  Again, heart is not a verb.

[Moose135]

1 hour ago, caci said:

Me: No, I am not a breakfast food, but I am SERIOUS about getting out of work late.

I am serious, and don't call me Shirley.

[Sandman87]

1 hour ago, caci said:

Me:  I didn't get out of work until four.

You're quite precocious! I didn't even get into kindergarten until five. :)

[SVNBob]

2 hours ago, caci said:

Me:  I didn't get out of work until four.

Someone:  Are you cereal?!

Me: No, I am not a breakfast food, but I am SERIOUS about getting out of work late.

I don't know if anyone else has heard that idiotic phrase, but it has become semi popular where I live.

I think this is because of South Park.  Specifically Al Gore in the Manbearpig episode.  He was super-cereal about things in that episode and subsequent appearances.

[caci]

Ah, I don't watch South Park so I didn't know where the phrase came from.  It still grates!

[Kromm]

Since we get into all kinds of things about language here...

What the heck is the deal with people calling board topics (also sometimes legitimately called "threads") "forums"? I have seen this SO much lately. 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Kromm said:

Since we get into all kinds of things about language here...

What the heck is the deal with people calling board topics (also sometimes legitimately called "threads") "forums"? I have seen this SO much lately. 

I suppose it's like like some grandparents who frequently care for their grandchildren calling them "my kids" instead of "my grand kids."

[Jaded]

12 hours ago, Kromm said:

Since we get into all kinds of things about language here...

What the heck is the deal with people calling board topics (also sometimes legitimately called "threads") "forums"? I have seen this SO much lately. 

That drives me crazy. I post semi-regularly in a huge thread here and a lot of members who also post in it call the thread a forum. 

[bmasters9]

40 minutes ago, Jaded said:

That drives me crazy. I post semi-regularly in a huge thread here and a lot of members who also post in it call the thread a forum. 

I think that either "thread" or "topic" is the proper terminology, because each one represents something being talked about within the larger "forum" that contains it. IOW, the "forum" represents the larger field of subject matter, and the "thread" or "topic" is one piece of that field (or so it would seem).

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, bmasters9 said:

I think that either "thread" or "topic" is the proper terminology, because each one represents something being talked about within the larger "forum" that contains it. IOW, the "forum" represents the larger field of subject matter, and the "thread" or "topic" is one piece of that field (or so it would seem).

I suppose it might not be incorrect if you consider the parallel example of someone taking a plane to "Chicago" saying "I'm in Chicago" rather than "I'm at the terminal 1 baggage claim in O'hare Airport."

[Kromm]

On 10/29/2016 at 2:53 PM, bmasters9 said:

I think that either "thread" or "topic" is the proper terminology, because each one represents something being talked about within the larger "forum" that contains it. IOW, the "forum" represents the larger field of subject matter, and the "thread" or "topic" is one piece of that field (or so it would seem).

The modern application of "Forum" has a specific antecedent. Originally it meant:

Quote

The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activityand public business.

For most of the 19th and 20th centuries it meant:

Quote

 A public meeting place for open discussion.

and 

Quote

A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.

Technology changed that a bit and it eventually became:

Quote

A medium for open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper, a radio or television program, or a website.

But specific TO a website it means a subdivision containing a variety of discussions--the top level being a "forum" and successive lower levels being "sub-forums" (each of which can contain topics/threads). 

Edited November 1, 2016 by Kromm

[Kromm]

On 10/29/2016 at 2:10 PM, Jaded said:

That drives me crazy. I post semi-regularly in a huge thread here and a lot of members who also post in it call the thread a forum. 

The problem is that it can get confusing (thinking they are potentially referring to another place on the board).

[3pwood]

Earlier this week, a big truck overturned on the freeway & disrupted the morning commute.  A local TV network affiliate's traffic reporter assured the audience that authorities were "efforting to upright the vehicle".   Sadly, the use of "upright" as a verb is becoming familiar (though certainly not acceptable in my view), but "efforting" is a new one & made me choke on the breakfast yogurt. 

[topanga]

On 10/29/2016 at 0:33 AM, Kromm said:

Since we get into all kinds of things about language here...

What the heck is the deal with people calling board topics (also sometimes legitimately called "threads") "forums"? I have seen this SO much lately. 

I'm sure I mix them up sometimes. I forget which is which. I have to look at my PreviouslyTV cheat sheet for clarification. I can choose to look at the Forums I follow: Everything Else TV, Online, This Is Us, Toddlers & Tiaras, Queen Sugar, etc. Or I can see the Topics I follow: NFL, Race & Ethnicity on TV, Gymnastics, etc.

 

On 10/31/2016 at 8:39 PM, Kromm said:

But specific TO a website it means a subdivision containing a variety of discussions--the top level being a "forum" and successive lower levels being "sub-forums" (each of which can contain topics/threads). 

Damn, you're smart. Kromm. I want to be like you when I grow up (not being facetious). 

[ChromaKelly]

4 hours ago, topanga said:

I'm sure I mix them up sometimes. I forget which is which. I have to look at my PreviouslyTV cheat sheet for clarification. I can choose to look at the Forums I follow: Everything Else TV, Online, This Is Us, Toddlers & Tiaras, Queen Sugar, etc. Or I can see the Topics I follow: NFL, Race & Ethnicity on TV, Gymnastics, etc.

 

Damn, you're smart. Kromm. I want to be like you when I grow up (not being facetious). 

Same. Sometimes I forget what has a forum (or, sub-forum) and what's a thread. Back in the TWOP days, a lot of the shows just had threads in their genre forums.

[mojito]

Not grammar, but pronunciation. I've been noticing more and more (operative word being noticing) that many, many people say "intil" instead of "until". Have I been wrong all these years (as I was with the word "bury")?

[Petunia13]

[CoderLady]

I. Want. That. Mug.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Shut up, Rachael Ray. 'Nutrish' is not a word, and you cannot make it into a word.

[memememe76]

Last night on This Is Us, Kevin said, "So, it will be just you and me" and then Randall said, "You and I." 

So, Randall is right? I thought Kevin would be right. I'm confused. 

[Ohwell]

It's been a loooong time since I've been in school, but if I remember correctly, if any form of the phrase "to be" is used (is, will be, was), then "You and I" is correct.  I think @legaleagle53 probably knows the correct answer.

However, even if Randall was right, he was a dick for correcting Kevin. (Although I stopped watching the show after the first few episodes, so I don't know what the situation was.)