S04.E02: Rehearsal

[TexasGal]

Quote

After Shiv discovers that Tom is following Logan’s playbook, she, Kendall, and Roman consider backing Sandi and Stewy’s aggressive play on the Matsson deal. Meanwhile, Logan gives an impromptu pep talk to the ATN newsroom… and outsources a tricky conversation with Kerry. Later, Connor tries to make the most of his rehearsal dinner when Willa goes AWOL.

Airdate: 04.02.2023

Free Willa!!

[BlackberryJam]

Oh Roman…don’t do it.

 

[Litnit]

I wondered for a minute if the Carrie thing was a test because it was so bad. I guess not. Geri's on the outs.

The kids just cannot get out of their own way. Your Dad is a prick but he's not wrong about the deal. I guess they assume Pierce will wait around for them to get rhe money from a delayed sale?

[Francie]

26 minutes ago, Litnit said:

The kids just cannot get out of their own way. Your Dad is a prick but he's not wrong about the deal. I guess they assume Pierce will wait around for them to get rhe money from a delayed sale?

They don't care about Pierce. They just wanted it because their dad wanted it. When they got it, they also got the satisfaction they were seeking -- their father's attention in that phone call. But, once they (practically) have it, Kendall and Roman just play around, and it's still not enough for Shiv. 

Now, with the Waystar sale to Mattson, Shiv thinks there's more money to be had (because she always has to be the smartest person in the room), Roman wants Logan's love, and Kendall's just happy he gets to screw over dad, again. 

How can a show be *so* devastatingly sad -- these miserable people all making themselves even more miserable -- and yet laugh out loud funny at the same time.It's brilliant that way.   I mean:

"It's a bit warm." / "What did it say?' /  "Take care."

I kinda like that Gerri is on on the skids right now. It gives her time to bounce back. I realize in this all this entitlement and misanthropy, I shouldn't root for anyone. But I can't help but be 100% in Gerri's corner. I want her her come out on top in a show where no one belongs on top.  I want her  to wind up with so much money and success by the time the show ends, she could buy a private island. Even though, this show has made it clear that such wealth only makes one miserable. 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Francie
adjectives do not also double as adverbs, usually

[Jordan Baker]

I cannot remember the last time I heard the term "lily-livered."  I so love the writing on this show.

And, boy, Brian Cox can sell it. I knew his whole concerned, apologetic father routine was BS, but I was still pulled into it. 

I was happy to hear Alan Ruck sing a bit. I once saw him in a touring company of "The Producers," and so I wasn't surprised that he sounded pretty good.  

The wedding should be . . . interesting?

[sistermagpie]

I can't believe I actually had some moments of real feeling for Connor in this ep. And oh Roman, this is going to be bad.

[realityplease]

Painful watching the "kids" play at being wheeler-dealers.  Posturing to each other - but what in the heck are they doing?? Logan summed it up:  He loves them - but they are NOT serious people!!!

Connor seems clear-headed - that dumb political bid aside. He just wants to get his cut of Waystar & run.  Knows he never had his Dad's love - says he doesn't need it.  Knows he'll never be in charge of the family empire - doesn't care.  He'll never be sure about Willa - and knows it.

Shiv knows they over-promised on the Pierce deal (& has not the slightest idea about what to with Pierce if they get it) but she's thrilled they got one over on Logan by getting the deal.  And got the satisfaction of knowing that Logan long wanted it & was pissed it got away from him.  Shiv wants to be the toughest negotiator in the room, but she (like Tom) just copies Logan's playbook. 

Ken was warned by Mattson that Mattson won't be squeezed for more money - but doesn't disclose that to the sibs & still tries to steer them to put the squeeze on Mattson - why?  Either he really wants that extra $100 million & thinks it's there - or just wants to screw with Dad  - or really hasn't the faintest idea of what to do with Pierce (despite his posturing) & wants that to go away too. 

Rome also knows Mattson will walk if squeezed - but instead of sticking with the sibs, goes off to speak with Logan.  So what happens to the portion he's supposed to kick in toward Pierce if Roman becomes his Dad's "fire-breather"?  And if he admits he's "not Pierce" & joins Logan, how can he have any relationship with the sibs going forward?

Logan did the smallest mea culpa possible to try to get the siblings to do what he wants. Playing pieces on a chess board.  He was on fire in the ATN room with the troops - but subdued when he needed to be with the sibs. (And a ghost in the decision about Kerri's anchor test.) I don't see any of the siblings able to access emotions, or look at optics, or make decisions in that same calculated way.  It's what makes Logan a powerhouse. 

Gerri's on the outs, but not going without a fight. The others (Tom, Frank, Hugo) are more "Yes-men" & limited.  She hasn't gotten this far by getting played or not having a move up her sleeve. 

So many balls in the air -- love this!  Each one is so true to their character.  Hard to see how it can all be reconciled without some one or two being big losers.   

Edited April 3, 2023 by realityplease

[cardigirl]

Shiv really bugged me this episode.

Enjoyed everyone else though. 

If I'm rooting for anyone, it's Roman, Tom, and Connor. And Logan too. + Gerri. 😜

[buttersister]

Quote

How can a show be *so* devastatingly sad -- these miserable people all making themselves even more miserable -- and yet laugh out loud funny at the same time.It's brilliant that way.   I mean:

"It's a bit warm." / "What did it say?' /  "Take care."

So good. 

Because they are not serious people, Logan can play them like fiddles. Some (Roman) easier than others, but he has more power over them than they will admit to--or maybe understand.

And, ladies and gentlemen, Brian Cox.

[Artsda]

Oh Roman, don't do it. 

[aghst]

48 minutes ago, realityplease said:

Painful watching the "kids" play at being wheeler-dealers.  Posturing to each other - but what in the heck are they doing?? Logan summed it up:  He loves them - but they are NOT serious people!!!

Connor seems clear-headed - that dumb political bid aside. He just wants to get his cut of Waystar & run.  Knows he never had his Dad's love - says he doesn't need it.  Knows he'll never be in charge of the family empire - doesn't care.  He'll never be sure about Willa - and knows it.

Shiv knows they over-promised on the Pierce deal (& has not the slightest idea about what to with Pierce if they get it) but she's thrilled they got one over on Logan by getting the deal.  And got the satisfaction of knowing that Logan long wanted it & was pissed it got away from him.  Shiv wants to be the toughest negotiator in the room, but she (like Tom) just copies Logan's playbook. 

Ken was warned by Mattson that Mattson won't be squeezed for more money - but doesn't disclose that to the sibs & still tries to steer them to put the squeeze on Mattson - why?  Either he really wants that extra $100 million & thinks it's there - or just wants to screw with Dad  - or really hasn't the faintest idea of what to do with Pierce (despite his posturing) & wants that to go away too. 

Rome also knows Mattson will walk if squeezed - but instead of sticking with the sibs, goes off to speak with Logan.  So what happens to the portion he's supposed to kick in toward Pierce if Roman becomes his Dad's "fire-breather"?  And if he admits he's "not Pierce" & joins Logan, how can he have any relationship with the sibs going forward?

Logan did the smallest mea culpa possible to try to get the siblings to do what he wants. Playing pieces on a chess board.  He was on fire in the ATN room with the troops - but subdued when he needed to be with the sibs. (And a ghost in the decision about Kerri's anchor test.) I don't see any of the siblings able to access emotions, or look at optics, or make decisions in that same calculated way.  It's what makes Logan a powerhouse. 

Gerri's on the outs, but not going without a fight. The others (Tom, Frank, Hugo) are more "Yes-men" & limited.  She hasn't gotten this far by getting played or not having a move up her sleeve. 

So many balls in the air -- love this!  Each one is so true to their character.  Hard to see how it can all be reconciled without some one or two being big losers.   

Yeah Kendall has his own agenda.  Before Mattson told him that he would walk, he wanted the deal as-is.  Well back in Italy, all 3 of them wanted to stop the deal and now they can do it.  He was grinning and smirking on the way home by himself.

Shiv just let it get personal, that dad is actually helping her husband instead of her.  She wants to get back at Logan by blowing up the deal but it would also hurt their position.

I also believe they don't have a plan for Pierce.  Kendall wanted news about Africa all the time?  Rome is right, not even Kendall would really watch that.  They got the rush out of denying dad a prize but after the energy dies down they realized they don't particularly have a passion for running their own media organization.

 

Of course Greg is the one who has to tell Kerry, pretend that it wasn't Tom who made him tell her nor that Logan gave Tom the unpleasant task.  Hugo and Gerri were laughing at her audition video before Logan walked into that meeting room, which is why Hugo didn't want to open his laptop up again.

Greg doesn't care if Kerry finds out he's lying to her about the focus group, he carried out his thankless mission.  Dodged another bullet!

 

Connor just wants to be loved like the other Roy children, but from someone else than his family, while the other 3 kids only want daddy's love.  So he won't confront the obvious, Willa wouldn't have stayed with him if not for the money.  Or that she disappears for hours on the eve of their marriage.

Was it Shiv or Rome who told Connor he could meet someone else if Willa has bailed?  But Ken set him straight, don't give up on Willa because he (Conner) isn't going to do any better.

Conner -- "it's a factory setting" -- may STILL marry her even if Willa told him she's with him for the money.

Thing is, he may be the most decent human being in the family.

 

It seemed at first that Logan left the karaoke club with resignation, like his kids foiled him.  But he goes out into the Manhattan streets and his misanthropist side comes out full force, expressing disgust at some homeless guy scrounging for something in the trash.  Apparently the hate makes him take another run at trying to flip Rome -- who has secretly texted him and wished him happy birthday. 

Show the slightest vulnerability and he pounces!

In the first season though, Rome was clownish, jerking off in his office and screwing up some of the early jobs which he was given.  But what he lacks in experience, he still has some kind of insight and may be the most ruthless out of the 3, though ruthless not just to be vindictive but to use it to his advantage.

While Logan is making a play, trying to get Roman on his side, he probably believes Roman is best-suited to be the "killer" he thinks he has to be.  But then he's constantly played them against each other. showing favor to each one at different times, so in the moment he's convinced himself that Rome best suits his interests.

 

[thuganomics85]

While I doubt Connor/Willa's wedding is going to come anywhere close to as bloody as other HBO show weddings have been, I'm already prepping myself for it to be so outlandishly awkward, that I will almost be begging for a Red Wedding to happen, heh.

Had a feeling the Roy siblings victory was going to be short-lived and it already seems to be falling apart.  Granted, it kind of sounds like Shiv overpromised the Pierces to begin with, but trying to squeeze Lukas for more money by voting no on the deal (along with Sandi and Stewy), is so going to backfire on them.  Because, yeah, Lukas is definitely someone who I can totally believe would simply walk instead of negotiate, because he is the personification of someone who has "Fuck you" money, and could afford any potential losses here from backing out.  The man marches to beat of his own drum and won't be down with getting dicked around due to some family squabbling.  I did notice Kendall's smirk at the end, so I do think he actually wants this to fall through for some reason.

The scene with all of the Roys together again was perfection.  But, as much as I truly think Logan is the worst out of this lot, I kind of agree with him that the kids aren't "serious people."  Logan might be close to evil personified, but every act he does is about benefiting himself, his "legacy", and getting an advantage in this cutthroat world: consequences be damned.  But the Roy siblings?  They really do let their emotions and need to get the win over dear old dad drive them to a point that they are hurting themselves almost as much as they are Logan.  Neither of the three really seem to have the maturity level to thrive.  They might still be able to take Logan down when it is all said and done, but I feel like it will cost them a lot more than they are prepared for.

Of course, now that Roman might even be considering jumping ship already, who knows what is going to happen with this crew.  I do think the seeds have been planted since he has always been pushing back against Kendall and Shiv (and might even be right to do so), but I don't see him gaining anything by going back under Logan's  thumb.

Tom is certainly proving himself to be an expert in the middle management game.  Always make sure to kiss the boss' ass and agree with him like the perfect yes man, and always delegate the uncomfortable tasks to your ill-prepared underlings so they can take the heat instead!  Oh, Greg!

Connor might be a delusional egomaniac, but there was real hurt there over watching his family act the way they are and still treat him like a nuisance, and I actually kind of pity him.  He's still responsible for most of his actions and flaws, but he really was an outsider throughout his entire life and probably never was loved in a way that was healthy.  Poor man couldn't even get to do some drunk karaoke, without having to drag his siblings in screaming.  Alan Ruck did a lot of great work here.

Next time, Hugo, just accept defeat and "accidentally" spill water on your laptop.  Or maybe throw it out the window...

Kerry has apparently become the new punching bag now.  To be fair, it did look like her news anchor skills were pretty rough, to put it mildly.

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by thuganomics85

[Jordan Baker]

Every time someone refers to "Sandy and Stewy," I chuckle, because it sounds like it should be the name of a kids' show on PBS.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Jordan Baker

[dmc]

Roman NOOOOOO

I don’t understand how the kids keep getting manipulated back in.  He doesn’t need you.  He’s lying.  He’s stringing you along like normal.

Carrie’s mall bangs and demonic smile are not this network’s brand.  You need to be blonde and more peppy.  Greg’s focus group of one says NOPE.

Shiv, the world is full of attorneys. Just because Newsweek decided 7 are the best doesn’t mean they are.  Plus you have a prenup.  You can just hire someone in LA or find a Matlock in Georgia. 
 

One of the things about the show, that always trips me up is  how you can want to  be close to someone who is essentially alienating your sibling. The way Logan ignores Connor has always been heartbreaking.

Edited April 3, 2023 by dmc

[absnow54]

56 minutes ago, dmc said:

I don’t understand how the kids keep getting manipulated back in.  He doesn’t need you.  He’s lying.  He’s stringing you along like normal.

Roman hasn't had his chance to be properly betrayed yet. Kendall had his dance with the devil in seasons 1 and 2, and Shiv took her turn in seasons 2 and 3. Logan has never taken Roman seriously, but I think he's starting to recognize his potential, so has convinced himself he's the new "chosen one." But Logan has impossible expectations, and Roman will eventually fail to meet them, and will get tossed out too. Logan's biggest mistake when it comes to Roman, though, is that he's planning on cutting Geri out, and he probably won't be able to hold Roman's loyalty without her.

8 hours ago, aghst said:

Yeah Kendall has his own agenda.  Before Mattson told him that he would walk, he wanted the deal as-is.  Well back in Italy, all 3 of them wanted to stop the deal and now they can do it.  He was grinning and smirking on the way home by himself.

I'm wondering if Kendall thinks he's being a young Logan. Mattson is trying to intimidate them from fighting a deal, and Logan has typically been the one to get the last word in negotiations. Now Kendall is trying to step in to do the same.

[Simon Boccanegra]

Like all the great old themes, it sounds banal when you boil it down, but "Established patterns are difficult to break" seems to be a major theme of the series. Kendall, Roman, and Shiv all have made a lot of noise at various times about new directions, independence, getting out from under their father's thumb. This time they're even united in their ambitions, more or less. But as with all the other times, everything they say and do reinforces that Logan is always in their heads. They can't outrun the pathology with which a lifetime of him (and their mother) has left them. They always seem pulled back to a version of the status quo.  

Kieran Culkin had a great episode, even by his standards. Roman's smart remarks cracked me up more than once, and it's the delivery as much as the words. I'm one of the cult of Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan's post-9/11 NYC epic that was released in a heavily cut version in 2011, later restored to its superior three-hour length), and I still love it that he and J. Smith-Cameron are in the same series and have scenes together. The main character's first sexual experience and her mom.

[dmc]

10 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

Roman hasn't had his chance to be properly betrayed yet. Kendall had his dance with the devil in seasons 1 and 2, and Shiv took her turn in seasons 2 and 3. Logan has never taken Roman seriously, but I think he's starting to recognize his potential, so has convinced himself he's the new "chosen one." But Logan has impossible expectations, and Roman will eventually fail to meet them, and will get tossed out too. Logan's biggest mistake when it comes to Roman, though, is that he's planning on cutting Geri out, and he probably won't be able to hold Roman's loyalty without her.

You don’t think when he offered his love and Logan laughs at the end of last season that was a betrayal or his lost tooth due to his dad’s backhand…

 

True on Gerri 

[TV Diva Queen]

8 hours ago, aghst said:

Yeah Kendall has his own agenda.  Before Mattson told him that he would walk, he wanted the deal as-is.  Well back in Italy, all 3 of them wanted to stop the deal and now they can do it.  He was grinning and smirking on the way home by himself.

Shiv just let it get personal, that dad is actually helping her husband instead of her.  She wants to get back at Logan by blowing up the deal but it would also hurt their position.

I also believe they don't have a plan for Pierce.  Kendall wanted news about Africa all the time?  Rome is right, not even Kendall would really watch that.  They got the rush out of denying dad a prize but after the energy dies down they realized they don't particularly have a passion for running their own media organization.

 

Of course Greg is the one who has to tell Kerry, pretend that it wasn't Tom who made him tell her nor that Logan gave Tom the unpleasant task.  Hugo and Gerri were laughing at her audition video before Logan walked into that meeting room, which is why Hugo didn't want to open his laptop up again.

Greg doesn't care if Kerry finds out he's lying to her about the focus group, he carried out his thankless mission.  Dodged another bullet!

 

Connor just wants to be loved like the other Roy children, but from someone else than his family, while the other 3 kids only want daddy's love.  So he won't confront the obvious, Willa wouldn't have stayed with him if not for the money.  Or that she disappears for hours on the eve of their marriage.

Was it Shiv or Rome who told Connor he could meet someone else if Willa has bailed?  But Ken set him straight, don't give up on Willa because he (Conner) isn't going to do any better.

Conner -- "it's a factory setting" -- may STILL marry her even if Willa told him she's with him for the money.

Thing is, he may be the most decent human being in the family.

 

It seemed at first that Logan left the karaoke club with resignation, like his kids foiled him.  But he goes out into the Manhattan streets and his misanthropist side comes out full force, expressing disgust at some homeless guy scrounging for something in the trash.  Apparently the hate makes him take another run at trying to flip Rome -- who has secretly texted him and wished him happy birthday. 

Show the slightest vulnerability and he pounces!

In the first season though, Rome was clownish, jerking off in his office and screwing up some of the early jobs which he was given.  But what he lacks in experience, he still has some kind of insight and may be the most ruthless out of the 3, though ruthless not just to be vindictive but to use it to his advantage.

While Logan is making a play, trying to get Roman on his side, he probably believes Roman is best-suited to be the "killer" he thinks he has to be.  But then he's constantly played them against each other. showing favor to each one at different times, so in the moment he's convinced himself that Rome best suits his interests.

 

re bolded:  Why did he "plug" in first?  He could have opened the laptop, closed the audition tape and THEN plugged into the projector.  That got me really mad for some reason.

[sugarbaker design]

You have to give it to these three bozos.  They have all but openly declared war on their father, but still rely on him for transportation!  Does Logan pay for the phones too?

[SHD]

Roman: I’m John Lennon.

*points to Shiv* “Ringo”

*points to Kendall* “Yoko”

[cardigirl]

9 hours ago, aghst said:

It seemed at first that Logan left the karaoke club with resignation, like his kids foiled him.  But he goes out into the Manhattan streets and his misanthropist side comes out full force, expressing disgust at some homeless guy scrounging for something in the trash.  Apparently the hate makes him take another run at trying to flip Rome -- who has secretly texted him and wished him happy birthday. 

 

I think Logan's disgust was more for his spoiled kids (in his mind) in that they have never had to scratch for a living, like he did when he was starting out. He probably was looking down on the homeless guy, but he was also saying that his kids should be more grateful for the lives they've been GIVEN. He's exasperated by them. (And they, him.) 

[Guest]

Roman’s constant need for his abusive father’s love is so sad. 

[Diapason Untuned]

I know Logan was just manipulating them, but I can't help but think some tiny part of him wanted to hang out with his kids, since he spent the whole day around Tom and Greg. Even his kids would seem cool compared to them.

1 hour ago, sugarbaker design said:

You have to give it to these three bozos.  They have all but openly declared war on their father, but still rely on him for transportation!  Does Logan pay for the phones too?

Wasn't that the company helicopter? As shareholders and Board members (?) they're entitled to its use.

[Zaffy]

Sometimes is hard to watch this show and tolerate all of these "lovely" personalities...

I guess it won't have a happy ending, but I so much want for the "kids" to find some happiness in their lives, they are so much screwed up by their own father who never really stopped screwing them and yet they are still trying to win his approval, love, whatever...
It is so sad.
It is probably too late for all of them, but I still have a tiny little  hope for them..

Brian Cox is amazing. Amazing.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

The Greg I know and love is back! "He's terrifyingly moseying." "It's like if Santa Claus were a hit man." "It's like Jaws if everyone worked for Jaws." Kerri thinks she will tear him apart like a human string cheese but we all know Greg is just a benign fungus. He'll be fine.

I liked how taking the bad news to Kerri traveled down the food chain from Logan to Tom to Greg. I don't know how someone seemingly as smart as Kerri could have such trouble just reading aloud.

So I'll admit I'm out of my element and have no idea if "squeezing the Swede" will actually work. On the one hand Sandy and Stewy seem to think so and they (or at least Stewy) are serious players unlike the Roy kids. On the other hand, I'm inclined to believe Roman's instincts since he's been right in the past about that sort of thing. Kendall didn't think it would work UNTIL he got the phone call from Mattson so maybe Kendall thinks it's a case of "the lady doth protest too much" and Mattson totally will pay more but obviously really doesn't want to. I guess I'll see how it plays out.

I think Logan is 100% targeting Roman because Roman is the most likely to be manipulated at this juncture. No other reason needed for Logan. Stay strong, Roman. He really should just get away from his entire family and do something on his own with his money. I could see him being successful if he surrounds himself with the right people (like Gerri).

I love the song (Famous Blue Raincoat) that Conner was singing at karaoke so I was hoping he wouldn't ruin it for me. Roman was absolutely hilariously killing me with how much he hated it. Just the way he said "oh, my god" after he ignored the phone call from Logan and Conner started singing again was so good.

2 hours ago, SHD said:

Roman: I’m John Lennon.

*points to Shiv* “Ringo”

*points to Kendall* “Yoko”

*points to Conner*  He's still Conner. He just won an outing with us in an auction.

 

I am really looking forward to the wedding!

[Blakeston]

My take on the ending was that Roman has been a double agent of sorts (pretending to be on his siblings' side and pretending to be on Logan's side), and that this has been going on for some time - possibly since the end of season three.

Do we know why Logan is cutting Geri out? I recall that he wanted to get rid of her after Roman sent her the dick pic - because of course he would punish the woman in that situation. I guess that her laughing at Kerry probably didn't help.

[BlackberryJam]

I don’t think Logan is targeting Roman. I think Logan threw it out to all the kids and he’d take whichever one came crawling back. It just happened to be Roman. If Kendall had shown up, Logan would have have told Kendall how much he needed him. 

Roman is just the one who fell for it this time. Each of the kids has come crawling back to Logan for a little more abuse.

 

[realityplease]

 

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Do we know why Logan is cutting Geri out? I recall that he wanted to get rid of her after Roman sent her the dick pic - because of course he would punish the woman in that situation. I guess that her laughing at Kerry probably didn't help.

Logan caught Hugo & Gerri laughing at Kerri's audition tape - but Logan's no idiot - he knows the tape was awful. His focus is on the GoJo deal. Kerri's anchor ambitions are just momentary distraction & the laughing just cause for annoyance.

With the GoJo deal as his focus, Logan wants Roman to be his "fire-breather" in further negotiations with Mattson. (Though is Roman really "needed" or just "useful" to break up the Sib Alliance?)  If Roman's there, than Logan doesn't need Gerri there.  Especially because the focus of any renewed negotiation is only on dollars (& not legalities, so nothing for Gerri to opine about) & Logan's seen Roman "distracted" by Gerri before, so why risk it?  Logan wants Roman to step up & stay focused. 

(Could backfire though. The more Logan sidelines Gerri, the more she might be inclined to cut ties & file a harassment lawsuit.  Logan doesn't really know the details, depth or nature of the Roman/Gerri dealings.  After the cruises debacle especially, a harassment suit is really bad optics & could sting. No one knows that better than Gerri.)

[tennisgurl]

Logan is just such a horrible manipulative monster, but he isn't really wrong about his kids being unimpressive. Even now when they're trying to assert their independence they just come off as kids playing dress up when they're up against their dad, even as they steal from his own playbook. Of course, its Logan's crappy parenting that helped to make all of the kids like this so its not like he has room to throw stones. They're all adults and have made their own bad choices, but its clear that many of their issues and failings can be traced back to their screwed up family dynamic. As messy as the kids are and how horrible they can be, I do feel sad watching them so desperately trying to make please this man who will never be pleased. The kids might be trying to play with the big boys, and they do have their moments of real competence, but they are still so dependent on their dad that they even need him to get them a ride. 

Delusions of political ambitions aside, Conner really does seem to be the most clear headed when it comes to their family, he was totally right when he said how his siblings desperate need for their dads love is painfully obvious, that all of this is some weird ploy for attention. It really was sad when he said that he knows that his dad doesn't love him and that's alright because he isn't a person that "needs love" the way other people do. He's probably aware that Willa is with him for the money but he's alright with that because its as close as he can get to being married to someone who might love him. I also like that Roman was the sibling that was most insistent on hanging out with Conner, the two of them have always had more of a connection. 

Oh Greg, watching him ramble on about arms was hard to watch, Tom is really getting the hang of middle management. Make your lackeys do all of hard work and the crappy conversations. I did love him narrating Logan showing up at the office, with terror mounting every second. "He looks like if Santa Clause was a hitman!"  

Gerri might be on the outs right now but I cant imagine she'll stay that way for long. Logan might think he wants a legion of yes men for now but eventually he's going to get sick of them and go back to Gerri, he knows that she's one of the smartest people he has and wont want to see how she responds to getting screwed over. 

Oh Roman, he might be the kid most obsessed with getting Logan to actually care about him, even though it seems like he's the kid Logan was the most abusive to. Not surprising that he ended up falling for Logan's trap, Logan knew that he was the weak link. 

Edited April 3, 2023 by tennisgurl

[aghst]

The theory is that Gerri may be lining up to go work for Mattson after the deal.

So now she's persona non grata to Logan who was going to throw her under the bus last season.

[iMonrey]

5 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I liked how taking the bad news to Kerri traveled down the food chain from Logan to Tom to Greg.

If Greg had half a brain he'd just flat out tell Kerry that Logan isn't going to give her the anchor job, and that he passed the buck to Tom and that Tom passed the buck to him because neither one had the balls to tell her. I guess the fear is that she'll go straight to Logan, repeat was Greg said, and then Greg will suffer the wrath of Logan, but Greg is going to get crapped on one way or another, and Kerry will easily find out there was no focus group. She's far less likely to take it out on Greg if he'd been straight with her.

I for one do not enjoy watching Logan yell at everyone and be an asshole all the time. I'm hoping for his death by the end of the season, or else the name of this show will have been almost entirely irrelevant.

[juno]

I started thinking about who I thought would be best to take over the company when Logan leaves/dies. I didn't think any of the children had the ability. I imagined being in that company and having to have a conversation regarding a corporate issue with any of them if one had become the president. I didn't think any were serious or even work hard or even care the first thing about a normal employee at a company. I think if you take all 3 and put them together they could be a good complete executive team as each has components a company would need to be successful, but none have it all. Even Logan is too selfish, angry and too sociopathic and I don't think anyone could work for him in a normal everyday corporate organization.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I for one do not enjoy watching Logan yell at everyone and be an asshole all the time. I'm hoping for his death by the end of the season, or else the name of this show will have been almost entirely irrelevant.

Totally agree. 

[caitmcg]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

If Greg had half a brain he'd just flat out tell Kerry that Logan isn't going to give her the anchor job, and that he passed the buck to Tom and that Tom passed the buck to him because neither one had the balls to tell her. I guess the fear is that she'll go straight to Logan, repeat was Greg said, and then Greg will suffer the wrath of Logan, but Greg is going to get crapped on one way or another, and Kerry will easily find out there was no focus group. She's far less likely to take it out on Greg if he'd been straight with her.

I mean, most ideas Greg has come up with on his own have been pretty hare-brained, so while his MO since S1 has been (ineffectual, to say the least) self-preservation, at best he’s failed upward. Plus, the Tom and Greg show is Succession's comic relief, hence a shrewd Greg doesn’t track.

Connor:

Quote

You’re a bunch of needy love sponges.

Truer words…

[marybennet]

I agreed with a comment above about Logan’s dying before the season ends, but I wonder about his not dying but being incapacitated and what that might do to the family, the business, and the show. 

The Connor plot was wonderful. Cheers to Alan Ruck!
 

 

[Haleth]

The influence of A Lion in Winter was never more apparent than in this episode.  The siblings can't stay focused on anything for more than a day or two without Logan's presence in their heads causing them to fail in their alliance.  

The sibs are all tangled in Logan's web forever, but it's hard to imagine someone as smart as Gerri not leaving for a normal work environment long ago.

[Enigma X]

Every season after season one, I have always felt the younger siblings are more dangerous to their futures than Logan will ever be. In a sense, I agree with Conor’s sentiment as he was leaving the karaoke bar. Logan is what happened to him in the past. He is trying to get all he can get for his future. (Though, he is still too wounded not to behave erratically and spend for that affection he craves.)

[absnow54]

15 hours ago, iMonrey said:

If Greg had half a brain he'd just flat out tell Kerry that Logan isn't going to give her the anchor job, and that he passed the buck to Tom and that Tom passed the buck to him because neither one had the balls to tell her. I guess the fear is that she'll go straight to Logan, repeat was Greg said, and then Greg will suffer the wrath of Logan, but Greg is going to get crapped on one way or another, and Kerry will easily find out there was no focus group. She's far less likely to take it out on Greg if he'd been straight with her.

Kerry's wrath doesn't have any actual bite though. Her power hinges on her influence over Logan, and since Logan was the one who made the call, and Greg is only doing the bidding, there's really nothing she can do besides hurl insults and empty threats. Logan, on the other hand, could legitimately end Greg if he wanted to. Greg went to the Tom Wamsgans School of the Fall Guy will Eventually be Rewarded (...maybe)

[laurakaye]

On 4/2/2023 at 11:23 PM, realityplease said:

Connor seems clear-headed - that dumb political bid aside. He just wants to get his cut of Waystar & run.  Knows he never had his Dad's love - says he doesn't need it.  Knows he'll never be in charge of the family empire - doesn't care.  He'll never be sure about Willa - and knows it.

In some ways, the sad life of Connor Roy - the eldest son - is better than anything his siblings are going through.  At least he knows where he stands with Logan, even if it's ugly and sad.  It doesn't mean it doesn't hurt him but he's probably at a point where he knows what's possible to change and what isn't.  That said, seeing Connor faded and in partial shadow at the table in the karaoke bar while his brothers and sister talked shop and ignored the fact that Willa just skipped out on him was supremely uncomfortable to watch, and that is why I love this show.  There's nothing better than watching the perpetually forgotten Connor finally reach his limit of what he'll tolerate.  Alan Ruck is brilliant.

 

On 4/3/2023 at 9:09 AM, TV Diva Queen said:

re bolded:  Why did he "plug" in first?  He could have opened the laptop, closed the audition tape and THEN plugged into the projector.  That got me really mad for some reason.

I think he knew he was so completely busted, he forgot how to work a laptop.  I found that hilarious.

 

This show does so many subtle things so well, it's why I have to watch each episode at least twice.  Tom pushing the paper boxes closer together before Logan stood on them to speechify.  Tom coughing uncomfortably in the middle of his intro, and the glare/smile that Cyd gave Tom when he called her his "partner in crime."  Shiv glancing at her brothers to gauge their expressions when it came to meeting Stewy and Sandi while she pretended to be just as surprised as they were.  And basically everything about Connor's bar night with his siblings - any scene that includes all four Roy kids is the best thing on TV right now.

Also, Kendall yelling at Logan about how Logan used to hit Roman and Roman deflecting by saying, "yeah, well - I deserved to be hit, I was annoying" just about Broke. My. Heart.

[TexasGal]

I loved the visual of Logan on the boxes, and Tom still being slightly taller than him.  And then of course Tom had to make it weird(er) with the comment about giving him a kiss.

[chaifan]

OK, I'll admit it...  I have a hard time following the business-centric plot lines.  I'm probably just not paying attention enough, but other than the general Logan vs. The Kids theme, the details aren't sticking with me.  I learn more about the plot through reading everyone's comments than from the show.  I also think the business shenanigans are just boring me this season, which is why I'm not paying as much attention to those scenes.

Greg describing Logan on the floor was hilarious.  If Santa Claus was a hitman...  That was so spot on! 

Is Connor getting his free-publicity stunt wedding after all?  I loved how he was trying to go to an everyman's bar and drink an everyman's drink (blah blah something belgian ale...),as if this were a press photo op. 

So Logan isn't even planning on going to Connor's wedding?  And Roman's blowing it off, too?  Isn't that a bit weird, even for this show?

 

[absnow54]

1 hour ago, TexasGal said:

I loved the visual of Logan on the boxes, and Tom still being slightly taller than him.  And then of course Tom had to make it weird(er) with the comment about giving him a kiss.

Brian Cox seemed so legitimately baffled by the remark that I wonder if it was an adlib. 

[nameless slob]

I hate those three assholes kids.  With every power of my being. Bunch of spoiled little brats who never showed any real competence for anything, specially for being where they are and for doing what they do. An amoeba has more of a deserving place in the world than any of those three.

They should count their blessings for being protected as they are just for who their father is.

The tone Kendall and Shiv had with their father in the club, so much disrespect!

When their father was asking why they think they should go for more money on the deal, Kendall had no justification ("makes sense bussiness wise"!) and Shiv basically said it was just out of spite ("my instincts!", disrespectfully mocking her father's decisions, the one who actually has bussiness sense).

Logan can be a violent imperalist beast, but he earned his title. He knows the game, he plays the game... He created the game!

And that is why I hope he suceeds at the end and screw the kids over again and again! And again!

I miss Marcia.

[juno]

48 minutes ago, nameless slob said:

I hate those three assholes kids.  With every power of my being. Bunch of spoiled little brats who never showed any real competence for anything, specially for being where they are and for doing what they do. An amoeba has more of a deserving place in the world than any of those three.

They should count their blessings for being protected as they are just for who their father is.

The tone Kendall and Shiv had with their father in the club, so much disrespect!

When their father was asking why they think they should go for more money on the deal, Kendall had no justification ("makes sense bussiness wise"!) and Shiv basically said it was just out of spite ("my instincts!", disrespectfully mocking her father's decisions, the one who actually has bussiness sense).

Logan can be a violent imperalist beast, but he earned his title. He knows the game, he plays the game... He created the game!

And that is why I hope he suceeds at the end and screw the kids over again and again! And again!

I miss Marcia.

yep, I am enjoying the ride of the show, but at some point I wonder why the 3 of them don't cash out their stocks and move on with their lives and move away from Logan who they seem to hate so much.

[aghst]

19 minutes ago, juno said:

yep, I am enjoying the ride of the show, but at some point I wonder why the 3 of them don't cash out their stocks and move on with their lives and move away from Logan who they seem to hate so much.

At various times, Shiv and Kendall have been away from the business and from Logan.

He drew them back in.

So it's not a one-way street.

It's not like the father is saying go out and grow up and leave me alone.

He wants to dominate them so he won't let them get too far away.

[juno]

14 minutes ago, aghst said:

At various times, Shiv and Kendall have been away from the business and from Logan.

He drew them back in.

So it's not a one-way street.

It's not like the father is saying go out and grow up and leave me alone.

He wants to dominate them so he won't let them get too far away.

I know, he is the master of manipulation. Best thing for all of them is cash out, completely cut the cord and run fast away.

[TV Diva Queen]

22 hours ago, laurakaye said:

In some ways, the sad life of Connor Roy - the eldest son - is better than anything his siblings are going through.  At least he knows where he stands with Logan, even if it's ugly and sad.  It doesn't mean it doesn't hurt him but he's probably at a point where he knows what's possible to change and what isn't.  That said, seeing Connor faded and in partial shadow at the table in the karaoke bar while his brothers and sister talked shop and ignored the fact that Willa just skipped out on him was supremely uncomfortable to watch, and that is why I love this show.  There's nothing better than watching the perpetually forgotten Connor finally reach his limit of what he'll tolerate.  Alan Ruck is brilliant.

 

I think he knew he was so completely busted, he forgot how to work a laptop.  I found that hilarious.

 

This show does so many subtle things so well, it's why I have to watch each episode at least twice.  Tom pushing the paper boxes closer together before Logan stood on them to speechify.  Tom coughing uncomfortably in the middle of his intro, and the glare/smile that Cyd gave Tom when he called her his "partner in crime."  Shiv glancing at her brothers to gauge their expressions when it came to meeting Stewy and Sandi while she pretended to be just as surprised as they were.  And basically everything about Connor's bar night with his siblings - any scene that includes all four Roy kids is the best thing on TV right now.

Also, Kendall yelling at Logan about how Logan used to hit Roman and Roman deflecting by saying, "yeah, well - I deserved to be hit, I was annoying" just about Broke. My. Heart.

Tis I that you quote....and I like your take on this and from here on out it will be my take.  :) 

Fun Fact:  I sat next to Fisher Stevens at a Rolling Stones concert in Chicago a million years ago, and every time he's on the screen I remind everyone in the room about it.  

[iMonrey]

Quote

I hate those three assholes kids.  With every power of my being. Bunch of spoiled little brats who never showed any real competence for anything, specially for being where they are and for doing what they do. An amoeba has more of a deserving place in the world than any of those three.

But who do you think made them that way? They didn't come out of the box that way. You can't spoil kids rotten and raise them to expect everything will be handed to them, and then turn around and blame them for not being grateful.

Kendall for example was raised and groomed to be Logan's successor and then never got to be. Shiv was lured away from her job in politics with the false promise of being the next CEO. Roman has had promises dangled in front of him over and over, the latest in this very episode. These kids have been strung along their whole lives. Logan is like Lucy with the football. You can't expect the kids to be grateful for having an asshole for a father. It doesn't work that way. Everything they do and how they act is a result of who raised them and the environment in which they were raised.

[sistermagpie]

17 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

But who do you think made them that way? They didn't come out of the box that way. You can't spoil kids rotten and raise them to expect everything will be handed to them, and then turn around and blame them for not being grateful.

 

Also, he's abusive! Emotionally and physically! He intentionally raised the kids to never be able to challenge him and is now disgusted by what that looks like.

[BlackberryJam]

Logan gives them breadcrumbs of love and approval, and none of the children, except maybe Connor, have realized that the hoops they have to jump through for that love and approval are too much. Connor recognizes it, but he also has never learned how to love and be loved. I don't think he loves Willa, I think he needs Willa, and he's buying her. He's trying to buy the love and approval of 1% of the nation through his presidential bid.

These kids are horrifically damaged people with no relationship skills.

They are still assholes though.