S01.E08: When We Are in Need

[Whimsy]

Quote

Ellie crosses paths with a vengeful group of survivors—and draws the attention of its leader. A weakened Joel faces a new threat.

Original airdate 3/5/23

[Constantinople]

Soylent Green is made of people!

Of people!

[AimingforYoko]

Damn, Ellie demonstrated the textbook definition of what "Going HAM on someone" means.

[Raachel2008]

Not impressed. The moment they said they couldn't bury the girl's father we all knew they were eating people - anybody who was ever seen disaster/survival/post-apocalypse shows saw this one coming a mile away.

Same for the preacher being a pedophile.

That penicillin was amazing, Joel went from almost comatose to a combat machine.

The only good thing about this episode was the acting - and the fact the fucking rapist was killed.

In my corner of the world some critics raved about this as the best episode of the season. AS IF.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Raachel2008

[rwlevin]

I just have to know. How many QZs are still in existence? because as of right now, the only 2 we know of are Boston and Atlanta. All the others seem to have been destroyed.

[peridot]

I cringed when Ellie jabbed the penicillin directly into Joel's wound - twice!  It was tense when the followers crept into the suburb where Ellie and Joel were hiding.  Joel moved pretty well for a sick and injured man.  Even when he's half dead, he has the ability to execute several people and trek several miles to find his ward!

Ellie was a badass!  I'm glad that she had the smarts/skills to injure the leader, psych out the bad guys, and bury a knife in the other guy's neck.  I wonder what would have happened if the leader lived, would he have joined the infected as well?

I was hoping the cannibalism reveal was just a red herring when the guy paused and said it was venison in the container.  The reveal of the ear and the smokehouse was gag-worthy.  I wonder what would have happened if spring came around and the girl still wanted to bury her father.

The pedophile's speech about wanting Ellie as a friend and partner was disgusting.  I'm glad she broke a few of his fingers before she killed him.  It seemed he didn't care too much about death - he didn't do anything about the wooden building on fire.  I guess his urges were stronger than common sense.

[Racj82]

On 3/5/2023 at 10:04 PM, Raachel2008 said:

Not impressed. The moment they said they couldn't bury the girl's father we all knew they were eating people - anybody who was ever seen disaster/survival/post-apocalypse shows saw this one coming a mile away.

Same for the preacher being a pedophile.

That penicillin was amazing, Joel went from almost comatose to a combat machine.

The only good thing about this episode was the acting - and the fact the fucking rapist was killed.

In my corner of the world some critics raved about this as the best episode of the season. AS IF.

Well I'm not looking to be impressed so that's helps me. In the year 2023, we've basically seen it all.

I'm hooked on these characters so investment in there. That's what is important to me.

To those wondering why Tommy's wife went so hard on Ellie about trust and what's out there....here ya go. You just never know.

I don't care at all that Joel slightly recovered pretty quickly. I'm just glad he's up and about for now. My favorite father and daughter combo are back and on their way.

I love how we get to see how ruthless Joel really is. No need for flashbacks to hid early days. I 💯 percent it.

I appreciate that we've seen multiple sides of humans dealing with this new world in one season. They all make sense. They are also not all bad.

Edited March 7, 2023 by Racj82

[theredhead77]

Literally didn't suspect cannibalism or the preacher / leader to be a pedophile. 

I was very happy to see them leaving the settlement instead of trying to befriend or save them (looking at your TWD).

More, please. 

[cardigirl]

Maybe I missed it, but were the people being harvested? In other words, were they eating only people who died of "natural' causes or were they killing people for food?

I felt bad for the horse. 

[SHD]

I’m sorry I have bad recall…who was the guy they were seeking revenge for?

55 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

Damn, Ellie demonstrated the textbook definition of what "Going HAM on someone" means.

I was thinking, “Maybe she should do half as many stabby-stabs and get the hell out of the burning building?!”

[Starchild]

6 minutes ago, SHD said:

I’m sorry I have bad recall…who was the guy they were seeking revenge for?

I think the guy whose neck got broke by Joel back at the college. The one who rammed the end of a broken bat into Joel's gut before he died.

[kay1864]

39 minutes ago, peridot said:

It seemed he didn't care too much about death - he didn't do anything about the wooden building on fire.

Clearly. I was thinking he had enough time to pull that curtain down and stomp it out. Or even try a 20-year-old fire extinguisher on it.

In an apocalyptic world, fire is one of the biggest enemies.

8 minutes ago, Starchild said:

I think the guy whose neck got broke by Joel back at the college.

Yes per this article 

https://twinfinite.net/2023/03/who-did-joel-kill-in-hbos-the-last-of-us-answered/

[Anela]

I guess she is just that fucking special, you fucking pedophile. 

 

[Daisychain]

16 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

I felt bad for the horse. 

Ok, I fully understand they don't really shoot horses on HBO sets --- but I was still so comforted to see on the after-show, the paper-mache horse going down the mechanical track and then falling.  I am such a gullible doof, but it still made me feel better.  OTOH, I had no problem with Ellie chopping the preacher into numerous pieces.  ???

[Hanahope]

Well if the raider had not attacked Joel at the college, he’d be alive.  But I guess the raider was hoping Joel would make an alternative food source.

[Anela]

26 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

Literally didn't suspect cannibalism or the preacher / leader to be a pedophile. 

I was very happy to see them leaving the settlement instead of trying to befriend or save them (looking at your TWD).

More, please. 

I'm out of it, so I didn't pick up on the cannibalism at first, even though he got that odd look on his face.

I did wonder why they were all so scared of him. Then he smacked that girl. I didn't think he was as nice as he was letting on. I don't know where they were, and I wondered if they were in the area where there are some religious groups who marry young girls, and multiple women.

24 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Maybe I missed it, but were the people being harvested? In other words, were they eating only people who died of "natural' causes or were they killing people for food?

I felt bad for the horse. 

I felt bad for the horse, too. I'm not one to yell back at the TV, but I did it several times tonight. 

I was wondering if these people were the reason that couple called the river, the river of death. Marilyn and Graham Greene. I don't know how far away they were, though.

[maystone]

This episode had a violent heart, let me tell you. I thought it was great from start to finish, and Bella Ramsey was perfection, again. The changes that Ellie had to go through, the range of emotion and physicality was jaw dropping when you start to break it all down. I'd give Bella an Emmy on this episode alone.

It took me a few minutes to figure out that the "murdered" man the cult guys were talking about was the raider at the college who tried to gut Joel with that batknife.  Or am I wrong?

It was striking to me that the episode was Ellie and maybe seven grown men. The widow and daughter got a few lines - and a powerful slam to the face - but it was mostly guys. It added to the tension and the ratcheting fear that I felt as the episode went on. The attempted rape scene was hard to watch; Ellie's terror and her decimation of David will both stay with me for a while.

Penicillin can be effective in 1-2 days, but I think we also need to calculate in Joel's immense will to survive and protect Ellie. Joel's handling of the Duck Dynasty duo in the basement was just brutal and made me have a better understanding of why, back in ep01, so many people were scared of Joel.

I actually thought the writers did some new takes on the usual cannibal cult routine. 1) Only four people in the community were aware of it instead of the whole congregation. 2) Because Jim and David were discussing how much game was left, I was surprised when the clues were everywhere that they were eating Daddy instead venison. There were still food stocks left before they turned to eating their own. 3) But the big shock for me was when Joel followed the blood trail and saw those five or six bodies hanging up there. The cannibalism didn't seem to be by necessity after all.

Two bookend moments: Ellie lying down beside an unconscious Joel to give him warmth and her comfort by resting her head on his chest. Joel holding the clearly traumatized Ellie to him and calling her Baby Girl.

Damn, I love this show.

[Msample]

10 minutes ago, Daisychain said:

Ok, I fully understand they don't really shoot horses on HBO sets --- but I was still so comforted to see on the after-show, the paper-mache horse going down the mechanical track and then falling.  I am such a gullible doof, but it still made me feel better.  OTOH, I had no problem with Ellie chopping the preacher into numerous pieces.  ???

After HBO had to cancel LUCK over deaths of horses while filming, I am sure they extra careful about animal welfare on set.

[kay1864]

6 minutes ago, maystone said:

Because Jim and David were discussing how much game was left, I was surprised when the clues were everywhere that they were eating Daddy instead venison. There were still food stocks left before they turned to eating their own.

Seemed like more than a week’s worth of um, long pig in the smokehouse. Especially if they were rationing.

[theredhead77]

16 minutes ago, Daisychain said:

Ok, I fully understand they don't really shoot horses on HBO sets --- but I was still so comforted to see on the after-show, the paper-mache horse going down the mechanical track and then falling.  I am such a gullible doof, but it still made me feel better.  OTOH, I had no problem with Ellie chopping the preacher into numerous pieces.  ???

Are you me?! I didn't even know the after show existed but I so needed that description. How do I watch the After Show? I don't see it on HBO Max.

[kay1864]

3 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

How do I watch the After Show? I don't see it on HBO Max.

I wondered too. It’s after the credits, and after the next episode preview.

[Racj82]

20 minutes ago, Daisychain said:

Ok, I fully understand they don't really shoot horses on HBO sets --- but I was still so comforted to see on the after-show, the paper-mache horse going down the mechanical track and then falling.  I am such a gullible doof, but it still made me feel better.  OTOH, I had no problem with Ellie chopping the preacher into numerous pieces.  ???

I will never really understand the visceral reactions people have to animals dying to the point where one will be fine with dozens of humans being mudereded over one dog but I assure you that you are not alone.

I flinched would I saw the horse got shot because I knew for some, that would be cause outrage. Not anywhere as much as anything the preacher did.

HBO, in particular, would not be in the game of putting horses in any real danger after what happened on the set of that show Luck. Isn't wasn't good. Many horses were harmed.

5 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

Are you me?! I didn't even know the after show existed but I so needed that description. How do I watch the After Show? I don't see it on HBO Max.

Just don't turn off the show. It's part of the shows runtime. You can also watch the aftershow and the official podcast for each episode on hbomax's YouTube channel.

 

[Daisychain]

3 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

Are you me?! I didn't even know the after show existed but I so needed that description. How do I watch the After Show? I don't see it on HBO Max.

I know.  Just keep watching through the credits . . . first comes scenes from next week IIRC and then is the after-show with Craig Mazin and Neil (Neal?) Druckman.  Horse is so not an actual horse.    

 

 

[Demian]

3 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

I will never really understand the visceral reactions people have to animals dying to the point where one will be fine with dozens of humans being mudered over one dog but I assure you that you are not alone.

I flinched would I saw the horse got shot because I knew for some, that would be cause outrage. Not anywhere as much as anything the preacher did.

You and me both.  In the world of this series, billions of people have been turned into mushroom farms, but the minute a horse gets shot to death, everyone's all, "OMG! The poor horsie! I HATE HBO!"

[theredhead77]

Thank you! Found it! 

3 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

I will never really understand the visceral reactions people have to animals dying to the point where one will be fine with dozens of humans being mudereded over one dog but I assure you that you are not alone.

I flinched would I saw the horse got shot because I knew for some, that would be cause outrage

I ugly cried my way through Jurassic Park Fallen Kingdom and that was over CGI extinct animals. My brain knows people are fine but even though it also knows the animals are fine (won't be looking into Luck, TYVM), it still gets upset. You can probably thank the Neverending Story for transition a generation.

6 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

Not anywhere as much as anything the preacher did.

 Bella Ramsey knocked that out of the park. Those scenes can be traumatic to film, I hope they took care with it. 

[Anela]

The preacher was a predator, a rapist and a murderer, happily killing people for food. The horse didn't ask to be put in harm's way. Ellie defended herself, after almost being raped and murdered. She did everyone a favour. 

[kay1864]

Also, did we lose a backpack… again?

[Daisychain]

8 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

HBO, in particular, would not be in the game of putting horses in any real danger after what happened on the set of that show Luck. Isn't wasn't good. Many horses were harmed.

Yes. @Msample also posted about this above and I am reading about this.  The many press reports sometimes conflict but bottom line, not good.  

[paigow]

Where is everyone else? The Steakhouse / Temple is on fire and nobody cares to help...

[Racj82]

36 minutes ago, Anela said:

The preacher was a predator, a rapist and a murderer, happily killing people for food. The horse didn't ask to be put in harm's way. Ellie defended herself, after almost being raped and murdered. She did everyone a favour. 

When I talk about the preacher, I'm saying the things he did and said are the rough part of the episode for me. A horse getting shot is not. People die everyday. In this universe its almost always tragic or violent. So, i don't feel anymore upset because it's a horse. I'm not happy about it. The horse didn't deserve it. My reaction was just, oh that sucks.

No one is shedding tears over the preacher. I could watch that on a loop.

24 minutes ago, paigow said:

Where is everyone else? The Steakhouse / Temple is on fire and nobody cares to help...

David probably ushered them elsewhere before it all went down.

As someone pointed out, I love that this compound wasn't a breeding ground for more side characters. This is not their story. The story is always Joel and Ellie no matter what. So, we get a snippet of their lives. That's all we need. What happens to them afterwards isn't really our concern. They are free at least.

[HC87]

Worst. Resort. Evah.

[Constantinople]

It's easy for me to say after the fact, but the guys going searching for Joel house to house probably should have searched in 2 groups of 2 rather than 4 searching separately.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Constantinople

[theredhead77]

42 minutes ago, kay1864 said:

Also, did we lose a backpack… again?

I though Joel was carrying 2 or 3 bags.

[Accidental Martyr]

1 hour ago, Anela said:

 

I did wonder why they were all so scared of him. Then he smacked that girl. I didn't think he was as nice as he was letting on. I don't know where they were, and I wondered if they were in the area where there are some religious groups who marry young girls, and multiple women.

I think the sign on the post office said Colorado.

[aghst]

1 hour ago, theredhead77 said:

Literally didn't suspect cannibalism or the preacher / leader to be a pedophile. 

I was very happy to see them leaving the settlement instead of trying to befriend or save them (looking at your TWD).

More, please. 

In retrospect, it was odd that David wasn't going to bury the guy right away.  What were they going to do with the corpse for months?

He really was a smooth talker wasn't he?  Was he smitten at first sight, when she was holding the rifle at them and ordering them around?  He wanted her to join him but really was talking about being his child bride.

But his henchman wanted to kill her from the beginning and David knew that.

He kept up the facade until he backhanded Hannah.  Then the real David came out.  In fact, after they caught Ellie, he really showed himself, "violent heart" and cannibal.  Then finally was going to rape underage Ellie.

I've seen many screenshots of the game and Ellie looks like maybe she's 14 at most and slight and not capable of rage.  She wanted to learn to shoot guns but also can kill mano y mano, very quick-thinking, able to improvise (that first kill when she was held down on the table).

It's odd, David was going to kill her on the table until she screamed that she was infected.  But later decides he wants her?

So Ellie's been through some trauma, losing her friend, seeing Tess die, surviving attack on Joel and now she took down two men herself.

But no such thing as PTSD in video games!

6 minutes ago, Accidental Martyr said:

I think the sign on the post office said Colorado.

David said they migrated more and more out of Pittsburgh QZ, had to keep moving because of raiders.

So they round an abandoned mountain resort with ammo and some game to hunt, but brutally cold.

You'd think there would be temptation to move south towards warmer places but maybe they prefer a relatively isolated place, away from clickers and raiders, even if the conditions can get brutal.

 

 

[Glade]

Powerful episode; I didn't see the cannibalism coming, but yes, guy was clearly a creep from the beginning, and like Kathleen, the community was talking about "justice" for their dead murdering thug who went after people just minding their own business.  I assume they raided the college with intentions to kill/capture the primates running about and then saw Ellie/Joel and the horse as an added bonus to their food-stores.  I'm glad Ellie and Joel apparently got away, I was afraid the villagers would come running, but with their cult leader dead they will hopefully be in too much disarray.  And indeed, it was sad seeing the horse murdered.  Do the infected attack animals I wonder, even if they can't pass the cordyceps on; I mean they respond to movement, but perhaps also to the smell of humans exclusively. After 20 years of no humans, you'd think the wilderness would be chock full of animals, wolves and coyotes moving back in, etc. 

[thuganomics85]

Last week's dead guy's daughter: "When can we bury the body?"
David (eyes darting back and forth): "Oh, we can't do it yet, dear!  We have to make sure he's properly seasoned... I mean, make sure he isn't overcooked...damn it!  Look, it's just too cold!  Too cold I tell you!"

 

Guess it was about that time to dive into the creepy cannibal cult: always a popular staple of the post-apocalypse genre.  Had a feeling David was going to be up to no good, but they went all out here!  Not just a cannibalistic cult leader who smiles on the surface while ruling with fear below it, but a damn psychotic pedophile as well.  I wonder if he really use to be a teacher, because that makes it even more horrific.  Interesting choice with casting Scott Shepherd here, because while I've seen him in a few things, I suspect there would have been a temptation to get a "known"/prolific actor to play a role like this, but I kind of feel like it worked out.  It just gave off a vibe of someone who seems like your average guy; not different than many in the world; and then bombshell after bombshell is dropped and you see what kind of monster he is.  It's honestly scary because there really are people just like him out in the world, and they can blend in with ease.

Of course, as someone who played the game, I definitely got a kick out of seeing Troy Baker a.k.a. "Video Game Joel" as James, his henchman.  Always fun when actors who mainly do voiceover work get to be on camera for once!  He did a good job here, although his voice work on the game (and other ones) is really something to behold.  

Spoiler

Curious to see who Ashley Johnson/Video Game Ellie will end up playing here.

Joel recovering this quickly is definitely a handwaving thing, but I choose to believe that going into rage mode when your kind of child is in danger is just a superpower for all Pedro Pascal characters!  Did like seeing the glimpse of the violent Joel again that we haven't seen since the pilot.  Those guys deserved it, but you can really see how violent and deadly Joel can be and why he was probably feared as much as he was.

Still, I'm glad it was Ellie that ended up saving herself and taking out that bastard David.  But, yeah, I suspect this ordeal will do a number on her going forward.  Bella Ramsey knocked it out of the park again.

While I can't sympathize too much with this group, I did like the idea about how all of this came about because of a death of someone who was basically just a faceless goon last week.  Just like seeing the glimpses of what Joel and Ellie leave in their wake: both the positive and the negative.

Can't believe the finale is next week!  HBO must have a lot of confidence in it or are just that indifferent to the Oscars now since it doesn't look like they will do any kind of early release or anything like they did with the episode against the Superbowl.

[kay1864]

58 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

1 hour ago, kay1864 said:

Also, did we lose a backpack… again?

I though Joel was carrying 2 or 3 bags.

I meant Ellie’s bag. The posse left it on the ground when David carried her away. That makes at least two, counting the one the Kansas City folk took.

[Dev F]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

He kept up the facade until he backhanded Hannah.  Then the real David came out.

I honestly thought that scene was a bit much. I get that they wanted to portray David's "violent heart," but isn't a big reason why he's drawn to Ellie supposed to be that he feels like he has to restrain his true nature among the rest of his flock? Instead of having him publicly lay poor Hannah out, I probably would've played it with simmering malice and the suggestion that Hannah is afraid of what David might do (had done?) to her in a more private setting.

But I did really like that "violent heart" confession later, which added an interesting new dimension to the David/Ellie showdown that isn't in the game, and reinforces some of the metaphorical/thematic stuff they've been doing with the cordyceps infection all season. I especially enjoyed the twist that David is only pretending to be a man of God, and that he actually sort of worships the cordyceps. It's one of the first times the show has explored the idea that new ways of life and ways of thinking might emerge from the fungal apocalypse, instead of people just clinging to old desires and values or falling into old patterns of oppression and violence.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Dev F

[Cheezwiz]

36 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Can't believe the finale is next week!  HBO must have a lot of confidence in it or are just that indifferent to the Oscars now since it doesn't look like they will do any kind of early release or anything like they did with the episode against the Superbowl.

There's still one more episode? I honestly thought this was the last one for the season.

[CarpeFelis]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

Where is everyone else? The Steakhouse / Temple is on fire and nobody cares to help...

Yes, I was surprised Ellie got to walk out and not be met by a crowd coming to put out the fire!

I felt bad for the horse AND the deer. The people? Hell no, they had it coming. Especially David. He creeped me out right from the start.

So come spring were they going to tell the girl whose father died that they’d stashed him in a convenient snowbank but some wild animal carried him off?

Ellie is a true badass!

[mcree]

2 hours ago, kay1864 said:

I meant Ellie’s bag.

No, Joel is carrying it in the shot of him walking after he discovers the bag with its purple trinket, along with the horse; before he finds Ellie at the end. 

[GustavMahler]

I understand this is based on a video game because it certainly is being presented as one. I never played the game (though spoiled somewhat from  simple You Tube thumbnail descriptions over the years) but this show seems to move at the same rapid pace of a video game. No lingering allowed and no real character depth from the NPC "walking dead" stock pool. I guess this is a good thing because we are not getting the "walking dead" bloat or the "game of thrones" inability to create a compelling narrative once divorced from that lazy jabba the hut author's source material. I have enjoyed the show, which is all that matters, but there is no meat on the bones of this story. 

[Peace 47]

 

3 hours ago, HC87 said:

Worst. Resort. Evah.

Crossover idea:  White Lotus, Apocalypse season.

Penicillin being derived from a fungus and being the thing to save Joel is some brutal irony.

Ellie laying down next to Joel and Joel feverishly turning his head towards her broke my heart, as did Joel calling her “baby girl.”  I can’t get enough Joel & Ellie moments.  The emotional adoption is complete between them.  David referred to Joel as Ellie’s dad, and she didn’t correct him like Joel and Ellie both corrected Henry in KC.  

Bella’s screams as she was killing David showed some masterful acting.  I am not one to watch bloody violence and will often look away when it is onscreen, but I couldn’t look away from Bella.  I never need to watch that again, but it was incredible.

IIRC, Craig and Neil said on their podcast from way, way earlier in the season that love in this world is actually at the root of the hatred and violence in it, i.e., protecting your “tribe” first at the expense of others.  Here, I felt that they were trying to drive home the point that love for dear departed Alec was a motivator for the bloodlust the group  had for Ellie and Joel.  And while that is true, the whole situation did not spring from love.  And David’s actions were not borne of love for anything other than power. Alec was an aggressor whom Joel killed in self-defense (and nearly died for it).  Joel, motivated by love, was brutal with the men from the group who came after him, but he had no choice if he wanted to get to Ellie.  I just say that because one reviewer I was just watching said that she felt the show was possibly now trying to villainize Joel or make you question the morality of his actions, and I’m like, “Nah, I’m good with you, Joel.  You’re doing great, sweetie.”

[paramitch]

Welp, while I enjoyed this episode, I'm certainly not gonna be rewatching this one a whole bunch, darn it (unlike episodes 3, 6, or 7). Good lord, that was grim.

But this was really well done, and I thought it was a pretty riveting and suspenseful hour of TV. It was just so hard to watch Ellie -- still so much a child -- struggle so hard to save Joel no matter what the obstacle. Ellie is a force of nature -- she is tough and fierce, but it's her will that's toughest and fiercest of all. She simply does not give up. Watching her outsmart and outmaneuver David and his henchman (Troy Freaking Baker! Represent!) was incredibly tense but also just riveting because again, Ellie is a terminator, and she will never, ever stop. I loved most of all that I'm sitting there waiting for Joel to crash in and kill David or pull him off her, but nope, Ellie saved her own damn self. I hated that she had to do it, but from a story/character perspective, it's perfect.

Also, it goes without saying at this point (or it should), but Bella Ramsey was absolutely amazing this week. Her performance was so layered, so incredibly complex -- and then, that final 3 minutes? Oh, my God.

Meanwhile, Pedro, very much in a supporting role this week, was also just terrific. The subtleties of Joel's expressions as Ellie tended to him, as he dealt with the two raiders, as he searched for her, and then finally hugged her close were so good. I was especially so moved by the moment when Ellie realizes it's him, and he hugs her close and she's weeping as he calls her "Baby girl." The entire brutal episode was worth it for that moment for me. That's why I'm watching this show -- I'm invested in Joel and Ellie and their found family journey, and we finally got where I wanted them to get to -- Joel openly calling her the endearment he had once called his daughter. Aw, man.

As for the horse, I felt genuinely bad for the horse because the horse was a really good, brave horse that had carried them faithfully from Tommy's town, to Colorado, that had stood patiently for them multiple times and then saved them after Joel's attack. It had also stood quietly in the garage while Ellie did her best to tend to it and give it affection. I felt terrible for the horse and that it would just end up in the raiders' stewpots. Good night, sweet horsie!

Terrific episode, but easily the hardest one to watch so far. But what a moving payoff.

6 hours ago, maystone said:

The changes that Ellie had to go through, the range of emotion and physicality was jaw dropping when you start to break it all down. I'd give Bella an Emmy on this episode alone.

Me too. What got me was that switch from blind, feral rage and fear, to terror when Joel surprised her, to the relief when he hugged her, and then as they walk away, we see her absolutely white with shock, just completely not okay at all.

6 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

I ugly cried my way through Jurassic Park Fallen Kingdom and that was over CGI extinct animals. My brain knows people are fine but even though it also knows the animals are fine (won't be looking into Luck, TYVM), it still gets upset.

I fully admit I have a hard time seeing animals suffer and die onscreen -- I do the same thing. Humans at least have some agency. Plus, animals are adorable, so... yeah. I don't need to watch that. But I did get a kick out of the extras after the episode that showed us exactly how the stunt was performed so that no horses (or Bellas) were actually harmed during filming!

6 hours ago, Anela said:

The preacher was a predator, a rapist and a murderer, happily killing people for food. The horse didn't ask to be put in harm's way. Ellie defended herself, after almost being raped and murdered. She did everyone a favour. 

Yeah, this.

5 hours ago, Racj82 said:

As someone pointed out, I love that this compound wasn't a breeding ground for more side characters. This is not their story. The story is always Joel and Ellie no matter what. So, we get a snippet of their lives. That's all we need. What happens to them afterwards isn't really our concern. They are free at least.

I agree that the tight focus on Joe and Ellie is really satisfying. The show has still unwaveringly managed to give us a pretty big gallery of lovable (and hateable) supporting characters nevertheless. But still, for me it always has to come back to Joel and Ellie.

5 hours ago, aghst said:

So Ellie's been through some trauma, losing her friend, seeing Tess die, surviving attack on Joel and now she took down two men herself.

But no such thing as PTSD in video games!

I do think both Ellie and Joel have pretty significant PTSD on the show, and we've seen some blatant as well as subtle signs of it ongoing. Tonight, Ellie was an absolute wreck when Joel found her, and she looks like she's going into actual shock as they stumble away.

4 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Interesting choice with casting Scott Shepherd here, because while I've seen him in a few things, I suspect there would have been a temptation to get a "known"/prolific actor to play a role like this, but I kind of feel like it worked out.  It just gave off a vibe of someone who seems like your average guy; not different than many in the world; and then bombshell after bombshell is dropped and you see what kind of monster he is.  It's honestly scary because there really are people just like him out in the world, and they can blend in with ease.

Joel recovering this quickly is definitely a handwaving thing, but I choose to believe that going into rage mode when your kind of child is in danger is just a superpower for all Pedro Pascal characters!  Did like seeing the glimpse of the violent Joel again that we haven't seen since the pilot.  Those guys deserved it, but you can really see how violent and deadly Joel can be and why he was probably feared as much as he was.

I agree that David was such an interesting villain, and I admit that I was completely snowed by him at first. When he gave Ellie the penicillin and was so quiet with her, I was totally going, "Oh, hey, look, a nice guy!" Buuuut nope. Sigh. Very, very not a nice guy. And oh, wow, he just got creepier and creepier as the episode went along, until in the end I was cheering when Ellie turned the creepy evil abusive cannibalistic pedophile rapist into hamburger.

4 hours ago, Dev F said:

I honestly thought that scene was a bit much. I get that they wanted to portray David's "violent heart," but isn't a big reason why he's drawn to Ellie supposed to be that he feels like he has to restrain his true nature among the rest of his flock? Instead of having him publicly lay poor Hannah out, I probably would've played it with simmering malice and the suggestion that Hannah is afraid of what David might do (had done?) to her in a more private setting.

But I did really like that "violent heart" confession later, which added an interesting new dimension to the David/Ellie showdown that isn't in the game, and reinforces some of the metaphorical/thematic stuff they've been doing with the cordyceps infection all season. I especially enjoyed the twist that David is only pretending to be a man of God, and that he actually sort of worships the cordyceps. It's one of the first times the show has explored the idea that new ways of life and ways of thinking might emerge from the fungal apocalypse, instead of people just clinging to old desires and values or falling into old patterns of oppression and violence.

I agree with you -- I thought David hitting the girl in front of everyone was a tiny bit overkill, and that it would've been more effective just to see her flinch at a single pause and a look from him.

58 minutes ago, Peace 47 said:

Penicillin being derived from a fungus and being the thing to save Joel is some brutal irony.

Ellie laying down next to Joel and Joel feverishly turning his head towards her broke my heart, as did Joel calling her “baby girl.”  I can’t get enough Joel & Ellie moments.  The emotional adoption is complete between them.  David referred to Joel as Ellie’s dad, and she didn’t correct him like Joel and Ellie both corrected Henry in KC.  

Bella’s screams as she was killing David showed some masterful acting.  I am not one to watch bloody violence and will often look away when it is onscreen, but I couldn’t look away from Bella.  I never need to watch that again, but it was incredible.

IIRC, Craig and Neil said on their podcast from way, way earlier in the season that love in this world is actually at the root of the hatred and violence in it, i.e., protecting your “tribe” first at the expense of others.  Here, I felt that they were trying to drive home the point that love for dear departed Alec was a motivator for the bloodlust the group  had for Ellie and Joel.  And while that is true, the whole situation did not spring from love.  And David’s actions were not borne of love for anything other than power. Alec was an aggressor whom Joel killed in self-defense (and nearly died for it).  Joel, motivated by love, was brutal with the men from the group who came after him, but he had no choice if he wanted to get to Ellie.  I just say that because one reviewer I was just watching said that she felt the show was possibly now trying to villainize Joel or make you question the morality of his actions, and I’m like, “Nah, I’m good with you, Joel.  You’re doing great, sweetie.”

LOL on a fungus saving Joel! I agree -- the irony is rich.

I agree with you on all of the Joel and Ellie moments. The moment when Ellie tried to minister to Joel then lay down next to him, head against his shoulder, was such a yearning little "My Dad is sick" moment to me. It was also a rare opportunity for Ellie to get the familial closeness with him that she yearns for without her showing her vulnerability to Joel since he's unconscious. (sniffle)

I know Druckmann and Mazin have talked a lot about how TLOU is here to show (in part) how love can also be toxic or twisted, I agree with you that I didn't really get that here. Yes, Joel was brutal (as was Ellie), but in all cases they were battling to save themselves and each other. I'm just sorry that Ellie is repeatedly having to do these things and witness these things, as each new trauma is teaching her things about herself that human beings should never have to learn. Joel already knows what this has done to him, and now he has to watch it happening to her. The violence is certainly changing her, and I hate that, even if I understand it. 

Meanwhile, I found the "love makes you do bad things" subtext way more effective with Henry and Sam, for instance.

Edited March 6, 2023 by paramitch
Missing sentence

[cardigirl]

8 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Maybe I missed it, but were the people being harvested? In other words, were they eating only people who died of "natural' causes or were they killing people for food?

I felt bad for the horse. 

 

8 hours ago, Daisychain said:

Ok, I fully understand they don't really shoot horses on HBO sets --- but I was still so comforted to see on the after-show, the paper-mache horse going down the mechanical track and then falling.  I am such a gullible doof, but it still made me feel better.  OTOH, I had no problem with Ellie chopping the preacher into numerous pieces.  ???

So, I quoted myself up there and wanted to defend it a little. Throughout the episode, up until the horse was killed, I felt a sense of dread and foreboding, much like I had last episode, that something bad would happen to the horse. Dread and foreboding are a staple with this show, but animals and young children ratchet up the emotional reaction. As Paramitch puts it, animals are innocent, humans not so much. 

7 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I will never really understand the visceral reactions people have to animals dying to the point where one will be fine with dozens of humans being mudereded over one dog but I assure you that you are not alone.

I flinched would I saw the horse got shot because I knew for some, that would be cause outrage. Not anywhere as much as anything the preacher did.

 

I didn't write in my earlier post about my reaction to the rest of the episode. This was a tough one to watch, for almost every moment. I'm not into violent, gory shows, which is why I am surprised that I've enjoyed this one. Did I worry about the horse? Yeah, as a character, I did. But I also worried about Joel and Ellie, and am now a little afraid of both of them, because of their will to survive. 😏 I definitely want them on my side. 

1 hour ago, paramitch said:

As for the horse, I felt genuinely bad for the horse because the horse was a really good, brave horse that had carried them faithfully from Tommy's town, to Colorado, that had stood patiently for them multiple times and then saved them after Joel's attack. It had also stood quietly in the garage while Ellie did her best to tend to it and give it affection. I felt terrible for the horse and that it would just end up in the raiders' stewpots. Good night, sweet horsie!

Terrific episode, but easily the hardest one to watch so far. But what a moving payoff.

Me too. What got me was that switch from blind, feral rage and fear, to terror when Joel surprised her, to the relief when he hugged her, and then as they walk away, we see her absolutely white with shock, just completely not okay at all.

I fully admit I have a hard time seeing animals suffer and die onscreen -- I do the same thing. Humans at least have some agency. Plus, animals are adorable, so... yeah. I don't need to watch that. But I did get a kick out of the extras after the episode that showed us exactly how the stunt was performed so that no horses (or Bellas) were actually harmed during filming!

While I am watching the episode, it's a sign of how well it was filmed that I wasn't thinking, oh, that's a fake horse or a machine horse or how they set the shot up. I was seeing what the director wanted me to see, and I was terrified and saddened.

I was, of course, concerned about the human toll, and figured out that cannibalism was keeping this little pocket of humanity alive pretty early on, but I still don't know if they killed their own for food, or if they just were taking advantage of a resource after it became available. When people died from other causes such as illness or starvation. 

Thanks for reminding me about the after show. I do enjoy those. 

[cardigirl]

I have another question, something I thought about during the episode. Where are they getting all of their ammo from?  It's 20 years post pandemic, and I'm pretty sure the munitions factories are all shut down. Just curious. The colony didn't have enough food, but they had plenty of bullets.  I'm trying to figure that out.  LOL. 

[paigow]

1 hour ago, paramitch said:

Meanwhile, I found the "love makes you do bad things" subtext

AKA You Give Love A Bad Name

[Uncle JUICE]

9 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

Not impressed. The moment they said they couldn't bury the girl's father we all knew they were eating people - anybody who was ever seen disaster/survival/post-apocalypse shows saw this one coming a mile away.

Same for the preacher being a pedophile.

That penicillin was amazing, Joel went from almost comatose to a combat machine.

The only good thing about this episode was the acting - and the fact the fucking rapist was killed.

In my corner of the world some critics raved about this as the best episode of the season. AS IF.

It took eight episodes, but I couldn't agree more with the bolded here. The formula for this episode to me was (2X Apocalyptic Cliche) +Video Game Plot. For clarity, I've never played the video game, and maybe it's me projecting the knowledge that video games are the source material onto the episode, but it feels like a side mission. Like if you play as Ellie, this is where you start doing so. But I guess that's sort of to its credit. As you mention, the performance particularly by the guy who played the preacher and of course by future Emmy winner Bella Ramsey were fantastic, but the plot was rote for me.

I had a little trouble last week when I saw the previews featured a very 'pastoral' character, because I find very few fresh looks at the nature of religion and the religious in post-apocalyptic shows. I mean can't there be ONE genuinely nice religious guy in any of these stories? It was like the show couldn't find enough ways to make this character villainous, when it's a far more complex story if you back off on a couple of these fronts. Does he have to slap the girl? Does he have to be a cannibal leader AND a child molester? How is the character served by being a preacher? Even the part where the one guy has the nerve to proffer a theory on what God's will might be, if you take that out, I don't think you lose anything. What if he's a nice guy preacher, but their circumstances have forced cannibalism on them, and he hates it but can't tell anyone...or if he's not a preacher at all, he's just a guy who's a community leader, maybe like a former mayor. 

I'm looking forward and expect a big time recovery next week, but anyone who is lauding this episode as great, I just have a disagreement with. 

[Haleth]

When we saw the people cooking up dinner and the one guy said it was venison before David arrived with the deer I realized, um, no that's not venison.  🤢  And it occurred to me the guys that attacked Joel and Ellie at the college were hunting anything that moves, whether it was a deer or a human.  

9 hours ago, cardigirl said:

In other words, were they eating only people who died of "natural' causes or were they killing people for food?

David said only he and James knew about the cannibalism.  If their guys killed a human David and James probably went to retrieve the body later.

8 hours ago, Anela said:

I was wondering if these people were the reason that couple called the river, the river of death. Marilyn and Graham Greene. I don't know how far away they were, though.

It took Joel and Ellie 5 days (?) to get to the college.  It would be a huge coincidence if Graham and Marilyn (in WY) knew about David's group in CO.  (Although it's possible.)

7 hours ago, aghst said:

In retrospect, it was odd that David wasn't going to bury the guy right away.  What were they going to do with the corpse for months?

Do you mean what did he tell the group?  Probably that they'd let the corpse freeze.  But we know dad ended up in the smokehouse with the rest of the bodies.

7 hours ago, HC87 said:

Worst. Resort. Evah.

I'd give it zero stars.