S02.E03: Bull Elephants

[jeansheridan]

2 hours ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

That she is insufferable is pretty much the entire point of the character. That she seems like she's in a different show is exactly how the character functions in life -- in her own universe focused solely on how everything negatively impacts her and her alone. 

This is such a cool take on her character.  All the actors seem to get it. They all comment how fun and out there Tonya is. So it's intentional.  And cringe. I hate cringe myself.

[chocolatine]

I thought Tanya was deliberately playing up the crying, which is why it looked so fake. She kept looking around to see if the other hotel guests were noticing. She wanted to guilt Greg into staying by making a public scene.

[skotnikov]

I think bodies are Ethan's and Harper's, and Daphne was supposed to "find" them from the beginning on. Cameron and Daphne probably had the plan to get Ethan's money and get rid of him and Harper after that.

Albie will turn into a jealous aggressive white man and probably will try to rape Portia at some point, that's quite easy to figure out. 

Tanya is a very realistic character. My mother had a friend like this for many years. The woman would gift her expensive furniture, home appliances and furs to her girlfriends just because she didn't like them anymore after a week or so. And she would constantly go to psychics and fortune tellers and also ask her friends to send her "positive" horoscopes from internet and newspapers (but only "positive" ones, because she had "enough negativity in her life").         

Edited November 16, 2022 by skotnikov

[JD5166]

On 11/14/2022 at 9:21 AM, dmc said:

As for Daphne there is nothing sadder than when a victim doesn’t know they are victim.  I bet Harper has these talks a lot with clients explaining bad behavior away while saying they aren’t a victim. This is the illusion of control over a bad situation. 

This is the thing that is bothering me about Harper,  considering her job shouldn’t she be more offended by Daphne’s nonchalance at being cheated on? It’s a strange contradiction, she wants them to like her so badly she’ll just put on a charade....it’s something MOST people do....but basically shes the only  character I can root for right now, despite her worldview of everything is awful. 

[divsc]

The Portia scene with Albie, his father, and grandfather on the Godfather experience - where they tell the story of the woman dying when the car blows up and it was meant for someone else.... and then Portia standing right next to the car..... felt like foreshadowing. Does someone mean to kill someone else and Portia dies instead??

[shapeshifter]

19 minutes ago, divsc said:

The Portia scene with Albie, his father, and grandfather on the Godfather experience - where they tell the story of the woman dying when the car blows up and it was meant for someone else.... and then Portia standing right next to the car..... felt like foreshadowing. Does someone mean to kill someone else and Portia dies instead??

Interesting. Or maybe they will subvert the genders and have Gregg die in someone else’s place? This show doesn’t feel like it would have a tragic death of, say, someone young and basically good, like Albie. But there’s still time for Albie to reveal a darker side, as some here have suggested.

[dmc]

10 hours ago, JD5166 said:

This is the thing that is bothering me about Harper,  considering her job shouldn’t she be more offended by Daphne’s nonchalance at being cheated on? It’s a strange contradiction, she wants them to like her so badly she’ll just put on a charade....it’s something MOST people do....but basically shes the only  character I can root for right now, despite her worldview of everything is awful. 

Yes should be and she should be mad at her husband. This trip set up with people they barely know where he makes her  feels obligated to impress them.  And he barely acts present. 

[shapeshifter]

Harper putting on her fake friendly face seems to be netting her information about the other couple's real agenda. I wonder if that was Harper's intent, or if she was just trying to save her marriage.

[Milburn Stone]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Harper putting on her fake friendly face seems to be netting her information about the other couple's real agenda. I wonder if that was Harper's intent, or if she was just trying to save her marriage.

My take is closer to your second guess, but not as extreme as saving her marriage. More like, removing a source of friction between her and Ethan for the sake of the two of them having a pleasant week.

[Baltimore Betty]

1 hour ago, Milburn Stone said:

My take is closer to your second guess, but not as extreme as saving her marriage. More like, removing a source of friction between her and Ethan for the sake of the two of them having a pleasant week.

Also the fact that Ethan will not touch her she wants to double down on making Ethan happy and give no reasons why he wouldn't want to do the horizontal mambo with her.  

Maybe Harper will figure out what Daphne and Cam are planning and teams up with Daphne and turns the tables to get rid of the husbands, maybe?

[peachmangosteen]

5 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Maybe Harper will figure out what Daphne and Cam are planning and teams up with Daphne and turns the tables to get rid of the husbands, maybe?

I love this idea lol.

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Maybe Harper will figure out what Daphne and Cam are planning and teams up with Daphne and turns the tables to get rid of the husbands, maybe?

Maybe Daphne was hoping and plotting for this end game from the beginning——after discovering that Cameron’s old roomy who hit the jackpot had a wife who is a lawyer who specializes in taking down dicks like Cameron.

[CarpeFelis]

On 11/16/2022 at 5:20 AM, Paws said:

I also think  that Tonyas husband may be having the affair with…..

Portia.

that’s why the tarot card reader was going so nuts. 

That would make for one hell of a plot twist, but I seriously doubt Portia would want to have anything to do with a guy his age (or unattractiveness). Plus, it seems he’s off to meet someone and if it were Portia how would she get away from Tanya for a couple of days unless she quits her job?

[nb360]

On 11/16/2022 at 8:20 AM, Paws said:

I also think  that Tonyas husband may be having the affair with…..

Portia.

I initially thought this, too, because of Tanya's statement that "It's not like she's going to be sleeping in our bed."

But discounted this idea, primarily because of the reasons the person above mentioned...

[Baltimore Betty]

9 hours ago, nb360 said:

I initially thought this, too, because of Tanya's statement that "It's not like she's going to be sleeping in our bed."

But discounted this idea, primarily because of the reasons the person above mentioned...

I don't see Portia wanting to knock boots with Greg, she does not seem like the kind that goes for an older guy.  Portia does not seem like the kind of girl that would want a man that had been with Tanya.

[Joimiaroxeu]

I'm surprised Valentina didn't get her bag snatched when she was stomping down the street. She has a narrow focus.

Harper looked like a dork to me in that headband. 1960s Junior League former debutante is so not her style.

Ditto comments upthread, I think Cameron and Daphne are trying to seduce Ethan and Harper in some way. Divide and conquer.

A jetski game of chicken. Interesting.

Is Ethan attracted to Cameron but he's trying to stay in the closet? Sigh, I feel like the first season wasn't so confusing.

[carrps]

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Harper looked like a dork to me in that headband. 1960s Junior League former debutante is so not her style.

I was noticing how not resortwear Harper's clothes are. Lots of shirtdresses and tailored fit. Nothing I'd think of packing for a vacay to a Sicilian palazzo or former nunnery. I'm assuming it's a choice to indicate her conservative nature.

[Blackie]

On 11/14/2022 at 12:18 AM, Irlandesa said:

I did laugh at all the men staring at her on the street.  I remember getting that feeling in Italy and Spain and I really wasn't something to write home about when I was there--just 20-something and blonde.

Same experience in Morocco

On 11/14/2022 at 11:59 AM, dmc said:

Portia is OK to me but her clothing is hideous.

those jean cut-offs  *shudders*

[sugarbaker design]

On 11/14/2022 at 10:39 AM, iMonrey said:

I don't know that White Lotus is meant to be a comedy or even a dramedy. 

It's a black comedy, like Succession.  The first season was about white privilege, this one seems to be about toxic masculinity.  We've already had discussions about rape and visuals about women being blown up.  Save for Daphne, I fear the bodies will be the female characters.

On 11/14/2022 at 2:40 AM, MBayGal said:

Jennifer Coolidge needs a crash course on crying!!!  That was a pitiful attempt at acting like you are crying.

But wasn't Tanya faking crying?  That's why she turned her head to see if anyone was watching, she was trying to create a scene.

I do like that Mike White has a habit of hiring very likable actress to play thoroughly detestable characters like the two Jennifers, Aniston and Coolidge.

[DrSpaceman73]

It's not a black comedy. It's a drama, in my opinion. 

I know what they claim It's a comedy .....it's not.  Not just this show but a pet peeve of mine. 

[izabella]

I think we are supposed to be amused by the foibles and follies, trials and tribulations, of the rich and privileged.  I mean, they bring it on themselves, all of it, and are ridiculous, each in their own way.  I am amused, anyway!

Edited December 2, 2022 by izabella

[LuvMyShows]

On 11/14/2022 at 12:08 PM, WatcherUatl10 said:

I DO wish there was an actual subplot involving the staff. That perspective would be welcome.

On 11/14/2022 at 12:16 PM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I liked the juxtaposition between the scenes of Cameron, Ethan, Lucia and Mia partying with the scenes of Daphne and Harper in the quiet palazzo. Not that I wouldn't love to chill in a palazzo with an edible, but they were very different vibes.

I think this show is much more straight forward than people are speculating. I am amused by the wild speculations though, so keep them coming... I guess?

Agree on all three.

[LuvMyShows]

On 11/14/2022 at 8:08 AM, SnazzyDaisy said:

The creepy scene where men in the town surrounded Harper, it's a reference to this movie - L'Avventura (1960).

Thank you sooo much for posting this!  It was interesting to see the re-creation from the exact spot. 

And I guess it helped explain the scene, but I still don't understand if Harper was actually experiencing it, or imagining it, especially since Daphne (who had just had a sexual remark said to her as they were walking down the stairs) just walked that exact same stretch by herself and apparently nothing at all happened to her.  I don't know anything about the original movie, but I find it unlikely that in this day and age, there would have been sooo many men in one location and not one other woman (unless it was a site known for having men congregate).

Edited December 3, 2022 by LuvMyShows

[snarts]

On 11/14/2022 at 12:16 PM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Daphne is obviously not an idiot either but I do think she's fooling herself. All her "punishment" to Cameron did was give him time and space to party with and cheat on her with a prostitute. He did not have any "FOMO" about missing the palazzo and it's pool.

She punished him by spending his money renting the palazzo.

I've always held the view that there's way more to relationships and intimacy than just sex and everyone has their own views on what's permissible & works for them. Daphne chooses to look the other way. It happens way more than you think, with both genders.  

Count me as another season 2 fan. I struggled through season 1, all my friends talking about how great it was when I didn't really see the genius. Way more invested in this cast.

[stcroix]

I can't get into this season or cast like I did with Season 1. The Ethan character (Will Sharpe) seems to have trouble communicating.  You could group him with the father (Steve Zhan) and son in Season 1 who had trouble expressing themselves-- it drove me nuts! Pulling a sentence out of them took forever.  Ethan is the same.  He doesn't seem to fit with his wife-- I cant image them in a wild sexual scene with each other! 😅 

The hookers bug me,too.  They look too young and fresh and always smiling hugely. I dont know, I'm watching this season and I'm grumpy. 😑 I guess I expected too much.

[AstridM]

On 12/1/2022 at 9:48 AM, sugarbaker design said:

It's a black comedy, like Succession.  The first season was about white privilege, this one seems to be about toxic masculinity.  We've already had discussions about rape and visuals about women being blown up.  Save for Daphne, I fear the bodies will be the female characters.

But wasn't Tanya faking crying?  That's why she turned her head to see if anyone was watching, she was trying to create a scene.

I do like that Mike White has a habit of hiring very likable actress to play thoroughly detestable characters like the two Jennifers, Aniston and Coolidge.

Yes, it seems a lot of people just don’t “get” black comedy. Or the brilliant Mike White. CringeY and painful is what he’s all about.

[TV Diva Queen]

On 11/14/2022 at 6:24 AM, divsc said:

I keep seeing Scott Foley in Scandal!

Ha - and I'm seeing one of the men on Desperate Housewives.  younger version though.

[PurpleTentacle]

Bull elephants do actually form social groups, so if that was supposed to be a simile for human male relationships, it only shows that male friendships are a thing: https://news.stanford.edu/news/2011/september/african-elephant-hierarchy-091411.html

I guess all the white lotus managers are gay. Interesting.

[SlovakPrincess]

I would so go on a tour of Godfather filming sites!  That sounds so fun!  As messed up as the Bert / Dominic dynamic is, they at least go out and do interesting tourist stuff.  LOL that they have a mannequin in a car to commemorate the Godfather explosion scene.

Ethan was already being a jerk in the beginning of the episode.  I felt bad for Harper getting all gussied up in the yellow silk number for morning sex and he didn't even notice.  He's not exactly helping her feel more relaxed!  And Harper tried to warn him Cameron wanted something out of him ... 

I find Valentina kind of amusing, but this season could really use Armond's manic energy.

I think poor Portia is depressed, given her feeling that everything is "boring" and the world less enjoyable than she once thought. 

Daphne being perfectly comfortable with appearing shallow and her shallow life - but actually having a lot of deep thoughts about things - is one of the more interesting parts of this season.

Edited December 14, 2022 by SlovakPrincess

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 11/14/2022 at 11:59 AM, dmc said:

Portia is OK to me but her clothing is hideous.  Like every time I see her I notice how hideous it is.  It’s aggressively hideous, and it must mean something.  

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/10/style/white-lotus-costumes-portia.html?unlocked_article_code=xa4PUY6THej77Dx5cDnFj2jtQY5lVasw02gjOLnEP682SeoU11ypvN72_mCP4CLyKA38Zi8Ru6kBHmrw8p6f5A1zFC6JqRYT89jwJ2GftUGlc6mZE04BtPJB3rdxdQDhxWRGIVvs2Z93x8RM--EUdMetDQbU8xihyN6xESGWqbQfMWxTuVR6_1RDCBywItMujUJtXimTB5zsDOQmI0oHekGmGxbGyYyP-UT3xJlinaTYotTgYsS0dbZX8zb6vlCFF7CpvUMdRwJmsab9ZQN6eigAMndiE1RF1o_pEw1Mr1XDSzLUMGhpdRa16xsezLHiH5QDWxYG0mZ3U6Je7IsmlIv_tA&smid=share-url

On 11/14/2022 at 4:31 PM, aghst said:

Greg leaving for two days is bullshit.  It's about 30 minutes to an hour to get to the nearest airport to Taormina, then probably have to fly to Rome or Milan and take an international flight there.  If Greg goes back to the west coast since Tanya is from San Francisco, that's about 15 hours if not more.  So over a day just to fly back to the US and then fly back to Sicily.  What's he going to do, go to the US and turn around and fly back after like 8-10 hours?

This didn't make sense to me, either.

[TVMovieBuff]

I felt such secondhand embarrassment when Valentina said "Peppa Pig?" when Tanya asked who she looked like! Well played!

I will go further back, to season 1 when Tanya met Greg, he was trying to get into her room, then said he mistook the room number for his own. Knowing what we know (suspect?) now, he might have been trying to break in. 

 

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, TVMovieBuff said:

I felt such secondhand embarrassment when Valentina said "Peppa Pig?" when Tanya asked who she looked like! Well played!

I will go further back, to season 1 when Tanya met Greg, he was trying to get into her room, then said he mistook the room number for his own. Knowing what we know (suspect?) now, he might have been trying to break in. 

I think his plan was to stage a "meet cute" rather than break in. It was part of a long game to get her fortune.

[Lamima]

So didn't Daphne fall into Cameron's arms when she got back on the beach after swimming into the dead body? Thought so. So I don't see any deaths being Cam.

I felt that Greg glommed on to Tanya for her money. Like a Dirty John who had wooed many rich desperate ladies to steal their money.  But then I got the idea that maybe his health issue isn't cured. Maybe he was talking to his kid. Maybe he had to go for some treatment or something. Maybe he's dying. Could his kid be Portia? Nah.

 

[blackwing]

On 11/14/2022 at 12:02 AM, Adgirl said:

There's absolutely no one to root for this season. I hate the sullen assistant. Working for Tanya is a nightmare but dude you took the job...quit or stfu. When the olds talk about working their way up or paying dues it's not always about the harassment we faced; sometimes it was just shitty temperamental, unhinged bosses like Tanya. 

I think she wanted the job and wanted the money but is only now finding out things about Tonya that she can't stand.  That's why she said to Albie that she needs a new job.  She's fed up and has had enough.  She goes along with Tonya on this vacation thinking it'll be nice, then pretty immediately gets told by her that she has to stay in her room the whole time otherwise Greg will get mad.  She doesn't listen, and wants to hang out at the buffet or the pool, only to get nasty looks from Tonya.

Then she meets this guy and his family and goes to town with them.  She gets called by Tonya who is all "where are you" and she says she is out and Tonya is all "I told you to stay close, you need to come to me right now".  Then she's in the room with Tonya at the tarot reading and Tonya tells her to go away.

Tonya expects Portia to be available at all times, except when she doesn't want her around, in which case Portia can't be around at all.  Tonya expects Portia to be a mind reader and know exactly when it's acceptable to do her job and be around yet also know when she is not.  I'm sure Portia is exhausted.  Tonya is a classic narcissist.

On 11/15/2022 at 12:50 AM, chocolatine said:

We saw her leave Natasha a huge tip at the end of last season. I know some people thought Tanya was being a jerk since she had told Natasha that she wanted to open a spa together and then reneged, but I don't think Natasha was in any way entitled to an investment from Tanya, so, at face value, the tip was very generous. Maybe she'll also give Portia a tip at the end of this season (if both of them are still alive).

I think you mean Belinda?  I would agree with you that Belinda wasn't entitled to any investment, but I think Tonya was a jerk because she used Belinda.  Tonya was in an awful state, she wanted someone to talk to, so she invited Belinda to dinner.  Belinda listened patiently and put up with all of Tonya's crap.  Tonya thanked her and said she wanted to do something for her and help her open her own spa.  Belinda prepared a lengthy proposal, and in the end, Tonya reneged because she decided that she didn't need Belinda anymore.  To Tonya, people are not human beings, they are only there to serve her needs and conveniences and when she doesn't need anything from them, she just drops them.

On 4/17/2023 at 6:41 PM, Lamima said:

So didn't Daphne fall into Cameron's arms when she got back on the beach after swimming into the dead body? Thought so. So I don't see any deaths being Cam.

I felt that Greg glommed on to Tanya for her money. Like a Dirty John who had wooed many rich desperate ladies to steal their money.  But then I got the idea that maybe his health issue isn't cured. Maybe he was talking to his kid. Maybe he had to go for some treatment or something. Maybe he's dying. Could his kid be Portia? Nah.

I rewatched the scene again.  I find it odd that no one else on the beach noticed the body.  Daphne wasn't that far out.  The guy that consoles her, we don't get a clear view of his face, but it does seem like Cameron.  Or at least someone who looks a lot like him.  Same hair, beard, same tall lean body type.

I don't know if Greg targeted Tonya, in Season 1 we are led to believe he was just there and randomly met up with her.  He thought he was dying and wanted to find an available woman.  After their initial encounter, he seemed done with her.  He went for a long swim in the pool to avoid her, she went down to the pool and sought him out.  He definitely didn't act like he knew who she was and was targeting her for her money, at that point in time he acted like he didn't want to continue anything.

Edited April 26, 2023 by blackwing