Jump to content

Type keyword(s) to search

S02.E03: Bull Elephants


  • Reply
  • Start Topic

Recommended Posts

On 11/15/2022 at 4:56 AM, Milburn Stone said:

The cinematic power of context. In the episode, I received it as a comedic commentary on Italian culture. In the clip, I perceive--and feel!--the character's fear and (all too justified) paranoia. 

Harper has had someone flash her in a private space (Cameron), grab her in the water, been mildly judged for her sex life (depending on how you take Daphne & Cameron's comments at meals), and then this scene. It all feels threatening to me. Oh and she has to swim in a borrowed suit while being watched by three men. I give Harper props for being steady at a very unrelaxing vacation. Her one moment doing what she wanted (swimming in the ocean) is ruined by Cameron. She is a bit bossy with her husband but in general this has not been her vacation at all.

  • Like 9
  • Love 9
Link to comment
6 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Jennifer Coolidge is insufferable this year. That over the top crying scene was absolutely embarrassing. It’s like she’s in a different show. I know this is sometimes called a “comedy” but that was awful. Very poor direction of the character. 

I feel the complete opposite. I am much more into her character this go-round than last season and find myself laughing at how over-the-top but at the same time authentically Coolidge is playing it -- she is fully committed to the awfulness that is Tanya. I didn't understand last season how she won an Emmy, but I could totally see her getting one this season. 

When she was packing up the tarot card reader and pushing her out the door complaining about how negative the card reader then stomping to her room --I lost it. The absolute obliviousness and irony of her reaction to the tarot card reader in the face of her negativity about every single thing, and at the same time that she forced her assistant to wait in the bathroom and saw nothing wrong with it, was some pretty incredible character writing.  That small scene was very deep in character exposition -- no easy feat for a writer to create, nor an actor to convey. 

That she is insufferable is pretty much the entire point of the character. That she seems like she's in a different show is exactly how the character functions in life -- in her own universe focused solely on how everything negatively impacts her and her alone. 

Is it painful and cringey to watch? Absolutely. But again, that's the point. We're watching this woman devolve more and more into her own mental instabilities. While some characters may be written to redemption or awareness, we KNOW that Tanya never will because its simply beyond her capacity. 

This show isn't about nice people in pretty places. Its about various types of crappy people who arguably have the least to be crappy about. In pretty places. We know at least one person will die either directly or indirectly because of some character's crappiness -- will it be someone who "deserves" it or someone who is collateral damage from the crappiness?

Some will get a little less crappy, some will stay the same, and some will get even crappier. Tanya is the latter. 

Edited by Sailorgirl26
  • Like 6
  • Applause 2
  • Useful 2
  • Love 14
Link to comment
2 hours ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

That she is insufferable is pretty much the entire point of the character. That she seems like she's in a different show is exactly how the character functions in life -- in her own universe focused solely on how everything negatively impacts her and her alone. 

This is such a cool take on her character.  All the actors seem to get it. They all comment how fun and out there Tonya is. So it's intentional.  And cringe. I hate cringe myself.

  • Love 5
Link to comment

I think bodies are Ethan's and Harper's, and Daphne was supposed to "find" them from the beginning on. Cameron and Daphne probably had the plan to get Ethan's money and get rid of him and Harper after that.

Albie will turn into a jealous aggressive white man and probably will try to rape Portia at some point, that's quite easy to figure out. 

Tanya is a very realistic character. My mother had a friend like this for many years. The woman would gift her expensive furniture, home appliances and furs to her girlfriends just because she didn't like them anymore after a week or so. And she would constantly go to psychics and fortune tellers and also ask her friends to send her "positive" horoscopes from internet and newspapers (but only "positive" ones, because she had "enough negativity in her life").         

Edited by skotnikov
  • Like 1
  • Mind Blown 7
  • Fire 1
Link to comment
On 11/14/2022 at 9:21 AM, dmc said:

As for Daphne there is nothing sadder than when a victim doesn’t know they are victim.  I bet Harper has these talks a lot with clients explaining bad behavior away while saying they aren’t a victim. This is the illusion of control over a bad situation. 

This is the thing that is bothering me about Harper,  considering her job shouldn’t she be more offended by Daphne’s nonchalance at being cheated on? It’s a strange contradiction, she wants them to like her so badly she’ll just put on a charade....it’s something MOST people do....but basically shes the only  character I can root for right now, despite her worldview of everything is awful. 

  • Like 1
  • Useful 1
  • Love 3
Link to comment

The Portia scene with Albie, his father, and grandfather on the Godfather experience - where they tell the story of the woman dying when the car blows up and it was meant for someone else.... and then Portia standing right next to the car..... felt like foreshadowing. Does someone mean to kill someone else and Portia dies instead??

  • Like 2
  • Useful 5
  • Love 2
Link to comment
19 minutes ago, divsc said:

The Portia scene with Albie, his father, and grandfather on the Godfather experience - where they tell the story of the woman dying when the car blows up and it was meant for someone else.... and then Portia standing right next to the car..... felt like foreshadowing. Does someone mean to kill someone else and Portia dies instead??

Interesting. Or maybe they will subvert the genders and have Gregg die in someone else’s place? This show doesn’t feel like it would have a tragic death of, say, someone young and basically good, like Albie. But there’s still time for Albie to reveal a darker side, as some here have suggested.

  • Useful 1
Link to comment
10 hours ago, JD5166 said:

This is the thing that is bothering me about Harper,  considering her job shouldn’t she be more offended by Daphne’s nonchalance at being cheated on? It’s a strange contradiction, she wants them to like her so badly she’ll just put on a charade....it’s something MOST people do....but basically shes the only  character I can root for right now, despite her worldview of everything is awful. 

Yes should be and she should be mad at her husband. This trip set up with people they barely know where he makes her  feels obligated to impress them.  And he barely acts present. 

  • Like 1
  • Love 3
Link to comment
1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Harper putting on her fake friendly face seems to be netting her information about the other couple's real agenda. I wonder if that was Harper's intent, or if she was just trying to save her marriage.

My take is closer to your second guess, but not as extreme as saving her marriage. More like, removing a source of friction between her and Ethan for the sake of the two of them having a pleasant week.

  • Like 1
  • Love 5
Link to comment
1 hour ago, Milburn Stone said:

My take is closer to your second guess, but not as extreme as saving her marriage. More like, removing a source of friction between her and Ethan for the sake of the two of them having a pleasant week.

Also the fact that Ethan will not touch her she wants to double down on making Ethan happy and give no reasons why he wouldn't want to do the horizontal mambo with her.  

Maybe Harper will figure out what Daphne and Cam are planning and teams up with Daphne and turns the tables to get rid of the husbands, maybe?

  • Like 2
  • Useful 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
5 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Maybe Harper will figure out what Daphne and Cam are planning and teams up with Daphne and turns the tables to get rid of the husbands, maybe?

Maybe Daphne was hoping and plotting for this end game from the beginning——after discovering that Cameron’s old roomy who hit the jackpot had a wife who is a lawyer who specializes in taking down dicks like Cameron.

  • Like 1
  • Useful 2
  • Love 1
Link to comment
On 11/16/2022 at 5:20 AM, Paws said:

I also think  that Tonyas husband may be having the affair with…..

Portia.

that’s why the tarot card reader was going so nuts. 

That would make for one hell of a plot twist, but I seriously doubt Portia would want to have anything to do with a guy his age (or unattractiveness). Plus, it seems he’s off to meet someone and if it were Portia how would she get away from Tanya for a couple of days unless she quits her job?

  • Love 6
Link to comment
On 11/16/2022 at 8:20 AM, Paws said:

I also think  that Tonyas husband may be having the affair with…..

Portia.

I initially thought this, too, because of Tanya's statement that "It's not like she's going to be sleeping in our bed."

But discounted this idea, primarily because of the reasons the person above mentioned...

  • Like 1
  • Love 2
Link to comment
9 hours ago, nb360 said:

I initially thought this, too, because of Tanya's statement that "It's not like she's going to be sleeping in our bed."

But discounted this idea, primarily because of the reasons the person above mentioned...

I don't see Portia wanting to knock boots with Greg, she does not seem like the kind that goes for an older guy.  Portia does not seem like the kind of girl that would want a man that had been with Tanya.

  • Like 5
Link to comment

I'm surprised Valentina didn't get her bag snatched when she was stomping down the street. She has a narrow focus.

Harper looked like a dork to me in that headband. 1960s Junior League former debutante is so not her style.

Ditto comments upthread, I think Cameron and Daphne are trying to seduce Ethan and Harper in some way. Divide and conquer.

A jetski game of chicken. Interesting.

Is Ethan attracted to Cameron but he's trying to stay in the closet? Sigh, I feel like the first season wasn't so confusing.

  • Like 2
  • Love 2
Link to comment
1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Harper looked like a dork to me in that headband. 1960s Junior League former debutante is so not her style.

I was noticing how not resortwear Harper's clothes are. Lots of shirtdresses and tailored fit. Nothing I'd think of packing for a vacay to a Sicilian palazzo or former nunnery. I'm assuming it's a choice to indicate her conservative nature.

  • Like 3
  • Love 1
Link to comment
On 11/14/2022 at 12:18 AM, Irlandesa said:

I did laugh at all the men staring at her on the street.  I remember getting that feeling in Italy and Spain and I really wasn't something to write home about when I was there--just 20-something and blonde.

Same experience in Morocco

On 11/14/2022 at 11:59 AM, dmc said:

Portia is OK to me but her clothing is hideous.

those jean cut-offs  *shudders*

  • Like 2
  • LOL 2
Link to comment
On 11/14/2022 at 10:39 AM, iMonrey said:

I don't know that White Lotus is meant to be a comedy or even a dramedy. 

It's a black comedy, like Succession.  The first season was about white privilege, this one seems to be about toxic masculinity.  We've already had discussions about rape and visuals about women being blown up.  Save for Daphne, I fear the bodies will be the female characters.

On 11/14/2022 at 2:40 AM, MBayGal said:

Jennifer Coolidge needs a crash course on crying!!!  That was a pitiful attempt at acting like you are crying.

But wasn't Tanya faking crying?  That's why she turned her head to see if anyone was watching, she was trying to create a scene.

I do like that Mike White has a habit of hiring very likable actress to play thoroughly detestable characters like the two Jennifers, Aniston and Coolidge.

  • Like 6
  • Love 2
Link to comment

I think we are supposed to be amused by the foibles and follies, trials and tribulations, of the rich and privileged.  I mean, they bring it on themselves, all of it, and are ridiculous, each in their own way.  I am amused, anyway!

Edited by izabella
  • Like 4
  • Love 1
Link to comment
On 11/14/2022 at 12:08 PM, WatcherUatl10 said:

I DO wish there was an actual subplot involving the staff. That perspective would be welcome.

On 11/14/2022 at 12:16 PM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I liked the juxtaposition between the scenes of Cameron, Ethan, Lucia and Mia partying with the scenes of Daphne and Harper in the quiet palazzo. Not that I wouldn't love to chill in a palazzo with an edible, but they were very different vibes.

I think this show is much more straight forward than people are speculating. I am amused by the wild speculations though, so keep them coming... I guess?

Agree on all three.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
On 11/14/2022 at 8:08 AM, SnazzyDaisy said:

The creepy scene where men in the town surrounded Harper, it's a reference to this movie - L'Avventura (1960).

Thank you sooo much for posting this!  It was interesting to see the re-creation from the exact spot. 

And I guess it helped explain the scene, but I still don't understand if Harper was actually experiencing it, or imagining it, especially since Daphne (who had just had a sexual remark said to her as they were walking down the stairs) just walked that exact same stretch by herself and apparently nothing at all happened to her.  I don't know anything about the original movie, but I find it unlikely that in this day and age, there would have been sooo many men in one location and not one other woman (unless it was a site known for having men congregate).

Edited by LuvMyShows
Link to comment
On 11/14/2022 at 12:16 PM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Daphne is obviously not an idiot either but I do think she's fooling herself. All her "punishment" to Cameron did was give him time and space to party with and cheat on her with a prostitute. He did not have any "FOMO" about missing the palazzo and it's pool.

She punished him by spending his money renting the palazzo.

I've always held the view that there's way more to relationships and intimacy than just sex and everyone has their own views on what's permissible & works for them. Daphne chooses to look the other way. It happens way more than you think, with both genders.  

Count me as another season 2 fan. I struggled through season 1, all my friends talking about how great it was when I didn't really see the genius. Way more invested in this cast.

  • Like 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment

I can't get into this season or cast like I did with Season 1. The Ethan character (Will Sharpe) seems to have trouble communicating.  You could group him with the father (Steve Zhan) and son in Season 1 who had trouble expressing themselves-- it drove me nuts! Pulling a sentence out of them took forever.  Ethan is the same.  He doesn't seem to fit with his wife-- I cant image them in a wild sexual scene with each other! 😅 

The hookers bug me,too.  They look too young and fresh and always smiling hugely. I dont know, I'm watching this season and I'm grumpy. 😑 I guess I expected too much.

Link to comment
On 12/1/2022 at 9:48 AM, sugarbaker design said:

It's a black comedy, like Succession.  The first season was about white privilege, this one seems to be about toxic masculinity.  We've already had discussions about rape and visuals about women being blown up.  Save for Daphne, I fear the bodies will be the female characters.

But wasn't Tanya faking crying?  That's why she turned her head to see if anyone was watching, she was trying to create a scene.

I do like that Mike White has a habit of hiring very likable actress to play thoroughly detestable characters like the two Jennifers, Aniston and Coolidge.

Yes, it seems a lot of people just don’t “get” black comedy. Or the brilliant Mike White. CringeY and painful is what he’s all about.

  • Like 2
Link to comment

I would so go on a tour of Godfather filming sites!  That sounds so fun!  As messed up as the Bert / Dominic dynamic is, they at least go out and do interesting tourist stuff.  LOL that they have a mannequin in a car to commemorate the Godfather explosion scene.

Ethan was already being a jerk in the beginning of the episode.  I felt bad for Harper getting all gussied up in the yellow silk number for morning sex and he didn't even notice.  He's not exactly helping her feel more relaxed!  And Harper tried to warn him Cameron wanted something out of him ... 

I find Valentina kind of amusing, but this season could really use Armond's manic energy.

I think poor Portia is depressed, given her feeling that everything is "boring" and the world less enjoyable than she once thought. 

Daphne being perfectly comfortable with appearing shallow and her shallow life - but actually having a lot of deep thoughts about things - is one of the more interesting parts of this season.

Edited by SlovakPrincess
  • Like 2
Link to comment
On 11/14/2022 at 11:59 AM, dmc said:

Portia is OK to me but her clothing is hideous.  Like every time I see her I notice how hideous it is.  It’s aggressively hideous, and it must mean something.  

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/10/style/white-lotus-costumes-portia.html?unlocked_article_code=xa4PUY6THej77Dx5cDnFj2jtQY5lVasw02gjOLnEP682SeoU11ypvN72_mCP4CLyKA38Zi8Ru6kBHmrw8p6f5A1zFC6JqRYT89jwJ2GftUGlc6mZE04BtPJB3rdxdQDhxWRGIVvs2Z93x8RM--EUdMetDQbU8xihyN6xESGWqbQfMWxTuVR6_1RDCBywItMujUJtXimTB5zsDOQmI0oHekGmGxbGyYyP-UT3xJlinaTYotTgYsS0dbZX8zb6vlCFF7CpvUMdRwJmsab9ZQN6eigAMndiE1RF1o_pEw1Mr1XDSzLUMGhpdRa16xsezLHiH5QDWxYG0mZ3U6Je7IsmlIv_tA&smid=share-url

On 11/14/2022 at 4:31 PM, aghst said:

Greg leaving for two days is bullshit.  It's about 30 minutes to an hour to get to the nearest airport to Taormina, then probably have to fly to Rome or Milan and take an international flight there.  If Greg goes back to the west coast since Tanya is from San Francisco, that's about 15 hours if not more.  So over a day just to fly back to the US and then fly back to Sicily.  What's he going to do, go to the US and turn around and fly back after like 8-10 hours?

This didn't make sense to me, either.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
  • 1 month later...

I felt such secondhand embarrassment when Valentina said "Peppa Pig?" when Tanya asked who she looked like! Well played!

I will go further back, to season 1 when Tanya met Greg, he was trying to get into her room, then said he mistook the room number for his own. Knowing what we know (suspect?) now, he might have been trying to break in. 

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
1 hour ago, TVMovieBuff said:

I felt such secondhand embarrassment when Valentina said "Peppa Pig?" when Tanya asked who she looked like! Well played!

I will go further back, to season 1 when Tanya met Greg, he was trying to get into her room, then said he mistook the room number for his own. Knowing what we know (suspect?) now, he might have been trying to break in. 

I think his plan was to stage a "meet cute" rather than break in. It was part of a long game to get her fortune.

  • Like 5
Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...