S12.E22: Reunion, Part 1

[Mindthinkr]

12 hours ago, ZettaK said:

Andy Cohen said on Twitter the cameras were down for the night before the women went to the Aspen club.

I don’t believe that for a second. I think the threat of a lawsuit shut it down (showing any footage) 

[Baltimore Betty]

51 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I think that was Pandora’s party way back. 

Yes, that's where I saw it, Pandora's wedding. Do we think Rinna was jealous of LVP having one of the Lesser Jackson's at a party? LOL.

[RealHousewife]

16 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Yes, that's where I saw it, Pandora's wedding. Do we think Rinna was jealous of LVP having one of the Lesser Jackson's at a party? LOL.

Is the pope a Catholic? 

[Hiyo]

Well, we can always ask our confirmed religion expert, Lisa, if we aren’t sure.

[Jel]

13 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Did anyone else feel a little uncomfortable when they were scolding the haters on social media?

Putting aside the direct messaged death threats, because obviously those are unacceptable.

But for the rest of it, like us just chit chatting or people tweeting on a general HW Twitter thread or a message board? It actually kind of pissed me off!  These women are 100% dependent on us viewers watching their show, and yes, commenting on it because that's how the world is now. That they think they are entitled to receive only the benefits of their fame, the big paycheques, the invitations etc. is delusional, but to then shame the very people who make their jobs possible because the comments aren't just glowing praise? Beyond the pale.

Uh no.

I feel more like they can thank me for taking my time to watch their stupid tv show and for talking about it on the internet.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Jel

[Chicklet]

14 hours ago, ivygirl said:

Of course she hasn’t. She’d have to reflect on how things impacted people beyond her nuclear family.

Introspection is not a thing Kyle has any understanding of. Her mother wouldn't allow it growing up I guess and Kyle obviously isn't interested in any personal growth.

[bencr]

14 hours ago, ivygirl said:

Viewers on WWHL ask Kyle if she feels any differently about the way Rinna treated Kim, Denise, Yolanda, Camille and LVP, now that Rinna’s antics have affected Kyle. Kyle straight up says that she hasn’t really thought about it!

This is what bugs me so much about Andy Cohen as an interviewer. He should have followed up by saying to Kyle something to the effect of, "Fair enough. But now that we have you thinking about it, what is your answer?" Instead of holding her feet to the fire, he lets her off the hook

[Cosmocrush]

8 hours ago, hottesthw said:

I cannot stand Diana but I do not believe she organized any online threat against any child anywhere. 

Do we know for fact that it was Diana that sent that horrifying racist tweet to Garcelle's son?   Because as terrible as the whole thing is (and Diana and Erika's parts in it) and while none of it was acceptable, that specific tweet seems over the top even for a hate receptacle like Twitter. 

1 hour ago, bencr said:

This is what bugs me so much about Andy Cohen as an interviewer. He should have followed up by saying to Kyle something to the effect of, "Fair enough. But now that we have you thinking about it, what is your answer?" Instead of holding her feet to the fire, he lets her off the hook

I've been watching this trash since the beginning  and I've never seen Andy ask a decent follow up question.  He cannot think on his feet - if it's not on his card, he doesn't ask it. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Cosmocrush

[SweetieDarling]

7 minutes ago, Cosmocrush said:

I've been watching this trash since the beginning  and I've never seen Andy ask a decent follow up question.  He cannot think on his feet - if it's not on his card, he doesn't ask it. 

The viewers are going to have to start submitting their questions in flow-chart form, with appropriate directions on how to follow up for every possible scenario if/when the HW denies, deflects, blames another HW, a specific other HW chimes in,...It would be kind of funny to see his face as he tries to decipher the flow-chart, and maybe (a BIG maybe) we'd get some answers.

[CrinkleCutCat]

9 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

https://www.womenshealthmag.com/life/a40310562/diana-jenkins-book-room-23-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills/
 

Someone deleted it, but I think Rinna was naked, sitting in the corner of a room, ROOM 23.

Found it! 

[endure]

4 hours ago, Jel said:

Putting aside the direct messaged death threats, because obviously those are unacceptable.

But for the rest of it, like us just chit chatting or people tweeting on a general HW Twitter thread or a message board? It actually kind of pissed me off!  These women are 100% dependent on us viewers watching their show, and yes, commenting on it because that's how the world is now. That they think they are entitled to receive only the benefits of their fame, the big paycheques, the invitations etc. is delusional, but to then shame the very people who make their jobs possible because the comments aren't just glowing praise? Beyond the pale.

Uh no.

I feel more like they can thank me for taking my time to watch their stupid tv show and for talking about it on the internet.

Yes!  Bravo needs to read the room, everyone has had enough of Lisa Rinna, the viewers have spoken loud and clear.... and it's everywhere online. I honestly believe she should be gone.  

[goofygirl]

6 hours ago, SemiCharmedLife said:

That's because Kyle was involved in some of those take downs.  She won't betray her co-conspirators.  That's why this Kathy gang up is so troubling to her.  She has to support her mean girl alliance, but wants to maintain enough of a relationship with Kathy that she won't boycott Farrah's wedding.

ITA 1000%  Seems like Vyle wants to have her cake and eat it too.  Can't have it both ways, sister!

[J80134]

Worst reunion looks ever. They look like they're overdressed for a big Friday night dancing at Polyesters (used to be a night club in my my city for the 50+ crowd)

Jamie dissin Crystal on her attempted hug. Lol

Dorito just can't repeat the home invasion story enough times for me 🥱

Vyle is full of shit...but at least she ended Doritos tearfest.

We've seen Crystal in tiny swimsuits...not so sure about body dismorfia claim. I'm so sick of how things make her FEEL. Offensive and dark aren't the same thing. I feel like she should stfu.

Hate Vyle, bit glad she called out Crystal's claim to fame lie

Diana is such a smarmy bitch. She was in London in 25 years ago and has been all over the world...the I just don't understand because I'm a refugee excuse was over at least a decade ago. 

Yes Gar, cut that nut bag off! You are a Queen and she's a bug eatin lizard.

[endure]

1 hour ago, J80134 said:

Worst reunion looks ever. They look like they're overdressed for a big Friday night dancing at Polyesters (used to be a night club in my my city for the 50+ crowd)

Jamie dissin Crystal on her attempted hug. Lol

Dorito just can't repeat the home invasion story enough times for me 🥱

Vyle is full of shit...but at least she ended Doritos tearfest.

We've seen Crystal in tiny swimsuits...not so sure about body dismorfia claim. I'm so sick of how things make her FEEL. Offensive and dark aren't the same thing. I feel like she should stfu.

Hate Vyle, bit glad she called out Crystal's claim to fame lie

Diana is such a smarmy bitch. She was in London in 25 years ago and has been all over the world...the I just don't understand because I'm a refugee excuse was over at least a decade ago. 

Yes Gar, cut that nut bag off! You are a Queen and she's a bug eatin lizard.

The women look too other worldly Imo they're so overly made up, botoxed, face filled, lip puffed and hairpieced up, they should be the Unreal Housewives. As far as Diana's book.... it was published 10 years ago...... just go away please Diana, and take Rinna & Erika back to Hawaii with you.  

[ZettaK]

Diana didn't attend the reunion to avoid facing Garcelle in person. It seems that she encouraged her fans/followers on social media to react, and some obviously did (threats in direct messages for example toward Garcelle's son). No wonder Garcelle is (justifiably) angry. 

Diana is extremely entitled due to being married to a billionaire for a long time, and then getting hundreds of millions in a divorce settlement. Not only she has actual power (money plus connections), she also has adoring acolytes, normally paid ones (as in working for her), or even famous ones because she belongs to certain social circles, so she thinks she is well liked. Until now. Her former husband's family's reputation was kind of shady, and she was considered trashy by some circles in the U.K. 

Garcelle knows the other women well (and their MO) after years on the show, so she can deal with them masterfully. 

Dorit is boring.

Crystal appeared to be flip flopping (or even not too truthful) about the "dark" comments and her 14 friends who supposedly dropped her. She is too righteous, and even a little sarcastic (especially in talking heads), but I agree with her that some concepts are not acceptable today. 

We didn't hear too much from the other women yet, but Erika managed to make a couple of ridiculous comments already (like that if one is acquitted in a court of law, they are not actually guilty).

The lighting was very unflattering. Don't these HWs (more than others) demand better lighting in their contracts? They also had too much makeup and self tanner/bronzer on except for Crystal who had light, glowing makeup on and looked far better than the rest. The clothes were more or less ugly. It seems Bravo encourages the women to wear bright colors and shiny fabrics in all HW reunions the last few years. 

[ZettaK]

Sutton said she wore a Peter Dundas dress. I thought it was a little bit too much. Dundas is Norwegian, but his family moved to the U.S., and was a designer with Gaultier, Ungaro, Lacroix, Pucci, and Cavalli (twice) before he created his own brand.  

Edited October 15, 2022 by ZettaK

[Chalby]

On 10/12/2022 at 5:09 PM, Straycat80 said:

I’ll bet if Jamie Lee was a HW she would chew Rinna up and spit her out. 
The pumpkins are kinda cool. 

Jamie Lee would put Erika in her place with a word or two of dismissal, once she learned of Erika's bad attitude.

[gingerella]

4 minutes ago, Chalby said:

Jamie Lee would put Erika in her place with a word or two of dismissal, once she learned of Erika's bad attitude.

Yeah but how could she not know by now...

Edited October 15, 2022 by gingerella

[Chalby]

14 hours ago, hottesthw said:

If she was all of those things she certainly wouldn’t need to be on this show. 

While very pretty, Garcelle is nothing more than a trouble-maker, with no other story-line than to cause trouble. I think Bravo strategically sought her out to just sit around, get offended as often as she can and put the others on blast, just to keep the show moving. That said, she can dish it out but she sure can’t take it. 

Say what? Sorry, but I feel Garcelle's constant grace under pressure attitude is soothing compared to the screeching chaos of the others.

[Chalby]

On 10/13/2022 at 10:41 AM, princelina said:

Now it turns out that either they were the pool comments, which we all HAD heard, and/or it was something that made Crystal feel like they were bad and dark even if no one else would see it that way, in which case she should have said that she didn't like the comments

Did anyone else simply find Sutton's pool party configuration a load of BS? I felt she was trying so hard to think of a situation that would show her in a non-racist light. Do I think Sutton is racist? Not at all. But I do not buy her version of her multicultural pool party.

[Rosebud1970]

On 10/10/2022 at 4:01 PM, tranquilidade said:

When Erika brings up the PK stuff it makes me think she still hates him.  

And that’s a problem because…?

[hoodooznoodooz]

So their call time was 6 am, but they don’t step onto the set until almost five hours later.

[Surrealist]

14 hours ago, Jel said:

 I feel more like they can thank me for taking my time to watch their stupid tv show and for talking about it on the internet.

I feel dumber than everyone here because I started watching Season 11, out of boredom, and then came away with the idea I should watch the first ten seasons to catch up. 😵‍💫

That took a month or so to do. I still haven't recovered, but at least, I can snark with the rest of you.

12 hours ago, SweetieDarling said:

The viewers are going to have to start submitting their questions in flow-chart form, with appropriate directions on how to follow up for every possible scenario if/when the HW denies, deflects, blames another HW, a specific other HW chimes in,...It would be kind of funny to see his face as he tries to decipher the flow-chart, and maybe (a BIG maybe) we'd get some answers.

Or do the Kim Richards follow-up to the entire group that starts with "Let's not talk about what you don't want out."

[ladle]

Regardless about how you feel about Michael Jackson's guilt or innocence (and that recent documentary was pretty damning), or whether you think art should stand alone or be connected to the morality of its creator... it takes a special kind of person to breezily say "He beat the rap!" about somehow who was accused of molesting children and ruining their lives. He's not, like, some wacky scamp who was accused of fudging his taxes. 

[ladle]

Everyone looks extraordinarily pinched and shiny. 

On one hand, I think Kyle is 100% right that Crystal lies, and then weaponizes her "feelings" and tears to cover for those lies, and that Crystal is overdramatic. YEP! On the other hand, I'm not sure that Kyle, of all people, is genuinely in a position to judge someone for those things. Like, that's a real pot-to-kettle situation right there. 

7 hours ago, Chalby said:

Did anyone else simply find Sutton's pool party configuration a load of BS? I felt she was trying so hard to think of a situation that would show her in a non-racist light. Do I think Sutton is racist? Not at all. But I do not buy her version of her multicultural pool party.

As a white person, I found Sutton's pool party story to be, as the kids today say..."cringe." Like, you don't get to swell with pride and have a medal pinned to your chest because you have friends of different races. It's great that Sutton's social life is apparently some live-action United Colors of Benetton Ad, but the fact that you're not actively prohibiting Black and Chinese kids from using your hot tub is not, like... noteworthy?

Sutton was also centering herself, a white person, in a conversation that was about Crystal's very real experience with racism. And, it ignores the fact that being able to "not see color" is a privileged position that really only white people are able to take. Crystal and Garcelle will still have to deal with racism, regardless of who's splashing in Sutton's pool. 

Do I think, based on this story, that Sutton is "a racist"? No! (Although I think "racist"/"not a racist" is a false dichotomy, as there's ample social psychological research demonstrating that most of us have some sort of racial bias.) So, I think if Crystal had just said, "It was a little cringeworthy because it sounded like you wanted to be patted on the back for having non-white friends. And also many of us non-white people don't have the option of just 'not seeing color," I think people would have gotten it. Sutton would have gotten it. And it seems like Sutton did get it, because she said she's learning! 

But because Crystal's gonna Crystal, she went down the "it was dark and horrible but I'm not going to say what was said, and actually nothing was said, and it wasn't really dark and horrible but I can still say it was BECAUSE FEELINGS" road.  Ugh. I don't like Crystal! But that doesn't change the fact that Sutton's story was... awkward.

[Surrealist]

30 minutes ago, ladle said:

Regardless about how you feel about Michael Jackson's guilt or innocence (and that recent documentary was pretty damning), or whether you think art should stand alone or be connected to the morality of its creator... it takes a special kind of person to breezily say "He beat the rap!" about somehow who was accused of molesting children and ruining their lives. He's not, like, some wacky scamp who was accused of fudging his taxes. 

I wish I could love this response 10,000 times.

[Sweet-tea]

On 10/13/2022 at 8:45 AM, Emmeline said:

I have been thinking that PK looked off all season.  He seems depressed.  Even his interactions with Mo are not the same.  We saw Dorit berating PK often during this season.

Yes I noticed this too. I think there is something going on between PK and Dorit. Hope the rumors about Dorit and Mauricio aren’t true. PK seems to be traveling a lot. 

Garcelle was the best part of R1 to me! I love her direct answers to Diana, especially when Diana made the “you must have a low opinion of me” statement and Garcelle agreed. And Garcelle wasn’t shouting or shrieking but firm and giving it right back to Diana. 

I didn’t like the Crystal pile-on but I kind of understood their point. Crystal implied that Sutton had said some horrible things. 

Lisa is evil. Her cross should’ve been upside down.

I don’t know if it was the makeup or the lighting, but most of the women didn’t look their best tonight. I’m including Kyle. I didn’t like her hair color, make-up or lipstick. Dorit and Erika looked harsh. Crystal and Sutton were ok. Diana was saved by the Zoom lighting. 

[Lassus]

19 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

I don’t believe that for a second. I think the threat of a lawsuit shut it down (showing any footage) 

I mean, maybe.  It's not like MY tech ever goes down at work!  😉

0

[Cosmocrush]

7 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

So their call time was 6 am, but they don’t step onto the set until almost five hours later.

I guess it takes that long to pack on the pounds of makeup, fake hair/lashes, and dresses too short and/or tight to sit in for hours.

[ladle]

To be clear, I have ZERO desire to defend the Princess of Liplickia, but I’m confused and I feel like I missed something. Why does Garcelle suspect she’s behind the racist bots? Because one of them said “stop talking about Diana”? Or is there more to it? 

[Surrealist]

14 minutes ago, Cosmocrush said:

I guess it takes that long to pack on the pounds of makeup, fake hair/lashes, and dresses too short and/or tight to sit in for hours.

Are you actually only referring to Erika here? 😉

[ladle]

Oh also I thought it was pretty disingenuous of Andy to say that he had been wondering for two seasons what “dark thing” Sutton had said. I’m sure you have access to the footage, ya jackass. 

[chlban]

16 hours ago, SweetieDarling said:

The viewers are going to have to start submitting their questions in flow-chart form, with appropriate directions on how to follow up for every possible scenario if/when the HW denies, deflects, blames another HW, a specific other HW chimes in,...It would be kind of funny to see his face as he tries to decipher the flow-chart, and maybe (a BIG maybe) we'd get some answers.

I love this post. Not only does it point out just what a useless host Andy is, it might actually help. And, yep, I would probably pay money to watch him try to decipher it.

[ladle]

On 10/14/2022 at 2:22 AM, hoodooznoodooz said:

Did anyone else feel a little uncomfortable when they were scolding the haters on social media?

Well I think there’s a huge difference between commenting on Kyle’s messed up family dynamic or Erika’s lack of self awareness or whatever on God’s green earth Rinna has done with her lips — versus actively making threats against these women and their families. NOBODY deserves that, not even Diana or Erika. 

[chlban]

9 hours ago, Chalby said:

Say what? Sorry, but I feel Garcelle's constant grace under pressure attitude is soothing compared to the screeching chaos of the others.

Garcelle is the best housewife ever. Beautiful, classy, smart and strong. Garcelle does not create trouble for sport, but she will defend her friends and stand up for what is right. I loved how she said, yes, she thought Diana was behind it, but never screamed or cried or overdramatized, when she had something try serious to be upset about. Rinna, Kyle, Erika could stand to shut up and observe. 

[chlban]

Just to be totally shallow, None of the women looked their best. I detest Dorit, but she is pretty and has a great figure, but she dresses like a xlowm and this was one of her most clowning looks. Lisa never dresses well, she has am even more clowning wardrobe than Dorit. Kyle has terrible taste and now she us messing with her best feature, her pretty dark hair. Worst of all though was Erika. It sounds weird,  but I found myself staring at her breasts way too much, but not in a good way. WTF? They looked uneven. She definitely failed the Sharon Stone Las Vegas look she appeared to be going for. She must owe her Glam squad a ton of money and they are getting their revenge. Diana actually looked the best for what was, hopefully, her last appearance as a Housewife.

Just now, chlban said:

Just to be totally shallow, none of the women looked their best. I detest Dorit, but she is pretty and has a great figure, but she dresses like a clowm and this was one of her most clownish looks. Lisa never dresses well, she has an even more clownish wardrobe than Dorit. Kyle has terrible taste and now she is messing with her best feature, her pretty dark hair. Worst of all though was Erika. It sounds weird,  but I found myself staring at her breasts way too much, but not in a good way. WTF? They looked uneven. She definitely failed the Sharon Stone Las Vegas look she appeared to be going for. She must owe her Glam squad a ton of money and they are getting their revenge. Diana actually looked the best for what was, hopefully, her last appearance as a Housewife.

[chlban]

2 hours ago, ladle said:

Everyone looks extraordinarily pinched and shiny. 

On one hand, I think Kyle is 100% right that Crystal lies, and then weaponizes her "feelings" and tears to cover for those lies, and that Crystal is overdramatic. YEP! On the other hand, I'm not sure that Kyle, of all people, is genuinely in a position to judge someone for those things. Like, that's a real pot-to-kettle situation right there. 

As a white person, I found Sutton's pool party story to be, as the kids today say..."cringe." Like, you don't get to swell with pride and have a medal pinned to your chest because you have friends of different races. It's great that Sutton's social life is apparently some live-action United Colors of Benetton Ad, but the fact that you're not actively prohibiting Black and Chinese kids from using your hot tub is not, like... noteworthy?

Sutton was also centering herself, a white person, in a conversation that was about Crystal's very real experience with racism. And, it ignores the fact that being able to "not see color" is a privileged position that really only white people are able to take. Crystal and Garcelle will still have to deal with racism, regardless of who's splashing in Sutton's pool. 

Do I think, based on this story, that Sutton is "a racist"? No! (Although I think "racist"/"not a racist" is a false dichotomy, as there's ample social psychological research demonstrating that most of us have some sort of racial bias.) So, I think if Crystal had just said, "It was a little cringeworthy because it sounded like you wanted to be patted on the back for having non-white friends. And also many of us non-white people don't have the option of just 'not seeing color," I think people would have gotten it. Sutton would have gotten it. And it seems like Sutton did get it, because she said she's learning! 

But because Crystal's gonna Crystal, she went down the "it was dark and horrible but I'm not going to say what was said, and actually nothing was said, and it wasn't really dark and horrible but I can still say it was BECAUSE FEELINGS" road.  Ugh. I don't like Crystal! But that doesn't change the fact that Sutton's story was... awkward.

It was awkward. But Sutton is older-like me and grew up in the South-unlike me. When I was growing up, here in CA, I didn't have many non white friends. Not because I was raised racist-far from it, my parents were very liberal, but because I simply did not live near, or go to school with many non white kids. Schools were not legally segregated here, of course, but they were effectively segregated based on neighborhoods. I have been happy to see my great niece has friends of all colors because things overall have changed. And, before I knew it was politically incorrect, I would have said she doesn't see color. See, my generation was raised-at least if our parents were not racist to judge people "not on the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."  I might have made a similar comment watching my niece and her friends. The difference is I wouldn't have said it to a POC knowing it would sound awkward. I really like Sutton, but she us no stranger to awkward.

Edited October 15, 2022 by chlban

[RoseAllDay]

18 hours ago, bencr said:

This is what bugs me so much about Andy Cohen as an interviewer. He should have followed up by saying to Kyle something to the effect of, "Fair enough. But now that we have you thinking about it, what is your answer?" Instead of holding her feet to the fire, he lets her off the hook

He always does this. Look at last year, when Erika’s story was literally falling apart by the time the reunion rolled around. He lobbed softballs, and even joked with her during one break.

There is nothing in this for him to call these people out on their shit. That would be biting the hand that feeds. But people ARE paying attention, but he couldn’t care less even about that. He’s quite happy running this circus.

[Cheyanne11]

1 hour ago, ladle said:

Oh also I thought it was pretty disingenuous of Andy to say that he had been wondering for two seasons what “dark thing” Sutton had said. I’m sure you have access to the footage, ya jackass. 

He couldn't be more obvious in his Kyle favoritism/Crystal dislike if he was wearing a sandwich board. 

[Yours Truly]

6 hours ago, ladle said:

On one hand, I think Kyle is 100% right that Crystal lies, and then weaponizes her "feelings" and tears to cover for those lies, and that Crystal is overdramatic. YEP! On the other hand, I'm not sure that Kyle, of all people, is genuinely in a position to judge someone for those things. Like, that's a real pot-to-kettle situation right there. 

As a white person, I found Sutton's pool party story to be, as the kids today say..."cringe." Like, you don't get to swell with pride and have a medal pinned to your chest because you have friends of different races. It's great that Sutton's social life is apparently some live-action United Colors of Benetton Ad, but the fact that you're not actively prohibiting Black and Chinese kids from using your hot tub is not, like... noteworthy?

Sutton was also centering herself, a white person, in a conversation that was about Crystal's very real experience with racism. And, it ignores the fact that being able to "not see color" is a privileged position that really only white people are able to take. Crystal and Garcelle will still have to deal with racism, regardless of who's splashing in Sutton's pool. 

Do I think, based on this story, that Sutton is "a racist"? No! (Although I think "racist"/"not a racist" is a false dichotomy, as there's ample social psychological research demonstrating that most of us have some sort of racial bias.) So, I think if Crystal had just said, "It was a little cringeworthy because it sounded like you wanted to be patted on the back for having non-white friends. And also many of us non-white people don't have the option of just 'not seeing color," I think people would have gotten it. Sutton would have gotten it. And it seems like Sutton did get it, because she said she's learning! 

But because Crystal's gonna Crystal, she went down the "it was dark and horrible but I'm not going to say what was said, and actually nothing was said, and it wasn't really dark and horrible but I can still say it was BECAUSE FEELINGS" road.  Ugh. I don't like Crystal! But that doesn't change the fact that Sutton's story was... awkward.

Agree with almost every you posted!!
But I don’t think Sutton was trying to pat herself on the back I think she was using an awkward example to explain how she feels the world should be. Considering the conversation itself was based on questioning Sutton’s racial insensitively I don’t find anything wrong with her expressing herself this way. I’m always curious on how a white person should engage in these conversations. Obviously the defensive and angry “I have black friends” clap back is not the proper approach and “wrong choice 101” but what CAN a white person say in situations like that when their character has been called into question regarding the subject? We’ve gotten to a place where ANYTHING said will be met with scorn or at the very least “cringe”. I can’t get too bent out of shape because someone handles a very very hard conversation awkwardly. I’ll reserve my scorn for the obvious intolerance and leave the slightly clueless and possible tone deaf conversation in the “teaching moment” category where they belong. And I definitely wouldn’t weaponize it against someone. 
Don’t get me wrong I know there are plenty who resent the idea of being the educator in these matters cause of courses it’s no ones “job” to do that and I get it. However, I feel,  if you don’t want to then I do think it’s shitty that you decide to put energy into painting it as some other more offensive conversation. Teaching/learning moments are ABSOLUTELY different than straight racial commentary and hate speech and I’m tired of this not being properly designated especially in the world of reality tv and social media. 🙄

Edited October 15, 2022 by Yours Truly

[Hiyo]

“We’ve gotten to a place where ANYTHING said will be met with scorn or at the very least “cringe”.”

That isn’t true at all.

[RealHousewife]

5 hours ago, chlban said:

Garcelle is the best housewife ever. Beautiful, classy, smart and strong. Garcelle does not create trouble for sport, but she will defend her friends and stand up for what is right. I loved how she said, yes, she thought Diana was behind it, but never screamed or cried or overdramatized, when she had something try serious to be upset about. Rinna, Kyle, Erika could stand to shut up and observe. 

I could not agree with you more. I thought LVP was fabulous, but there were times I thought she could also be mean and manipulative. Eileen is another favorite of mine, but I question her judgement. I really liked Joyce, but unfortunately we only got one season of her. Garcelle is the only one who's been on for multiple seasons where I've thought, this is a good person who handles herself with grace and tries to be on the right side of things.

Edited October 15, 2022 by RealHousewife

[ZettaK]

On 10/14/2022 at 1:36 PM, Mindthinkr said:

I don’t believe that for a second. I think the threat of a lawsuit shut it down (showing any footage) 

The women were going to a private, members only club, and it was already late. But we know that cease and desist letters were sent.

[realityplease]

Hate discussions about race, culture, or generational differences these days.  Landmines all over!  Times change.  What was cultural "appreciation" (good) is now cultural "appropriation" (bad).  What was "not seeing skin color but rather, judging on the content of one's character" (good) is now "THAT person who doesn't see color, & thus, doesn't see ME." (bad) 

Gone are the days of school lessons where, for a day, brown-eyed children got favored treatment & blue-eyed children less favored treatment.  (Or pick any 2 immutable traits that separate a particular class: hair color, shoe color, hand out two differently colored ribbons - whatever - then favor one group over the other.)  At days' end, the lesson is clear. (Kids are sensitive to fairness. How many times do they utter, "That's not fair!" as if life must always be fair.)  They GET that ribbon color, eye color, hair color, eye shape, skin color (things that are mostly unchangeable) are ridiculous, arbitrary reasons on which to base treatment of others or to favor one over another.

But today, exercises like that are risky.  Some are quick to judge & critical if they deem others judgmental, insensitive or disrespectful.  Someone above said that "being able to 'not see color' is a privileged position that really only white people are able to take." I don't agree. 

EVERYONE, white or person of color, should be able to "not see color" (if this means judging by character & not skin color) OR to "see color" (if this means recognizing & showing appreciation of color or cultural differences.)  It's equally important for white and persons of color (or whatever other categories could be included) to treat one another without preconceived notions & respect. It's not "color," per se, but the recognition of a shared humanity & valued variations in ALL of us.  We're taught don't shame, discriminate, assume privilege or assume ANYONE is "less than" and where disparity arises, do what you can do to fix it. 

Sutton's white. Her comments scrutinized for racism because she relied on a trope passable in days gone by.  Crystal is 39.  Andy dismissed her as a "dramatic millenial" for a response based not on age, but rather, on her awareness of ethnicity/race.  I think Sutton was well-meaning & didn't intend offense.  I think Crystal was clumsy also & bumbled into her innuendo.  But on this show - any excuse to be picky & snotty!  Crystal alluded to "dark" comments, wouldn't admit she shot off her mouth, & once in the murk, didn't clarify - or couldn't.  Sutton wants to "connect" with everyone, so she told a very clumsy pool story to Crystal.  BIG "so what" because THEY talked it out & came to an understanding.  That should have ended it. But Andy needed to snark & twist.

Edited October 15, 2022 by realityplease

[ZettaK]

14 hours ago, ladle said:

Regardless about how you feel about Michael Jackson's guilt or innocence (and that recent documentary was pretty damning), or whether you think art should stand alone or be connected to the morality of its creator... it takes a special kind of person to breezily say "He beat the rap!" about somehow who was accused of molesting children and ruining their lives. He's not, like, some wacky scamp who was accused of fudging his taxes. 

Well, that's Erika!

She also thinks (hopes) she can beat the rap, and then she will tell us she is not guilty.

Edited October 16, 2022 by ZettaK

[endure]

13 hours ago, RoseAllDay said:

He always does this. Look at last year, when Erika’s story was literally falling apart by the time the reunion rolled around. He lobbed softballs, and even joked with her during one break.

There is nothing in this for him to call these people out on their shit. That would be biting the hand that feeds. But people ARE paying attention, but he couldn’t care less even about that. He’s quite happy running this circus.

I think Andy is too involved to do this it should be someone neutral to the show asking the questions or a panel of viewers.

Edited October 16, 2022 by endure

[Hiyo]

At the last Potomac reunion, Andy had Nicki Minaj on as a guest host for a bit. Unlike Andy, she was not there to play or fawn over her favorites.

[Yours Truly]

3 hours ago, Hiyo said:

“We’ve gotten to a place where ANYTHING said will be met with scorn or at the very least “cringe”.”

That isn’t true at all.

Welp we agree to disagree cause it is my experience that that is actually were we are. Seen it plenty of time in real time.

[Hiyo]

We all see what ww want to see, I guess. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

But agree to disagree indeed.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Hiyo

[ladle]

4 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

I’ll reserve my scorn for the obvious intolerance and leave the slightly clueless and possible tone deaf conversation in the “teaching moment” category where they belong. And I definitely wouldn’t weaponize it against someone. 

I don't think anyone is expressing scorn for what Sutton said? I'd file it away as a slightly problematic, eye-rolly, out-of-touch rich white lady comment, especially when Crystal had just the night before explained why "I don't see color" is problematic. Even Sutton is now saying she understands why it was problematic! My point was that I would actually have been on Crystal's side, if she had pointed to Sutton's comment as being cringey. Instead she had to go the "things were said that were very dark" route and then clam up, leading people to speculate wildly about what horrible, racist thing Sutton must have said. I think we're all in agreement that this was really, really messed up of Crystal! I'm definitely in agreement with that. I actually think I dislike Crystal more than a lot of people on this board.