S12.E21: Not My Sister's Keeper

[chlban]

1 minute ago, njbchlover said:

This is true and worrying at the same time.  Fans are engaged and talking about the show, exactly the way it is, with this cast.

Makes you wonder if the cast will remain the same because of this.  I don't know if I can take another season of Rinna (and Diana, but I think it's safe to assume she's a one and done).  

I would be fine with Erika on the show WITHOUT Rinna, because I think the whole dynamic would change, but I don't think I can watch another season with both Rinna and Erika together.

I think we really have to boycott the show if Rinna returns. It's the only way, because you are both correct. BH is drawing a ton of interest and it isn't just Erika's legal issues now. I do agree that with Rinna gone, Erika will get the treatment she deserves. Kyle is too weak to stand on her own and we all know Dorit will go whichever way the wind is blowing. As for Diana, I can't imagine she will be back. I just saw a reviewer call her the worst Housewife casting decision ever. I would still go with Leah or Eboni, or both, for that honor, I mean they literally killed my favorite franchise,  but that is in part because they were very prominently featured where Diana has kind of been barely there all season. Thankfully.  Pretty sure she's one and done, but Lisa has to go.

[Jel]

1 hour ago, Surrealist said:

Same. LVP isn't an idiot. She's more low-key with her treachery, but she definitely knows how to contact the tabs.

I remember during Puppygate, this was a key part of the "evidence" they had against Lisa Vanderpump. Only Machiavellian LVP knows how to leak stories! No one else on the show knows how to, so there's your proof that Lisa did it! I thought that was so weird at the time because it was so obviously a lie. It's a 10 second google to figure how how to leak a story to a tabloid. Tabloids rely on people knowing how to leak stories, so they make it easy. It was a red flag.

Then Erika brought up the old "I don't know how to do that" last week. Mmn hmm

Also, I just read that sometime after the last epi, Kyle went on a podcast with Erika and Rinna and they were all very chummy and BFF-ish. 

How would that make Kathy feel? How did it make Kim feel when Kyle maintained her close friendship with Rinna after she'd been so awful to Kim? Betrayed?

Kyle seems to feel entitled to have her cake and eat it to. And if the sisters are hurt by what she has done, Kyle just sees herself as the victim.  The sisters react (not always in the best way) and Kyle sees herself as a victim of their reaction... a reaction to what she did. Does Kyle ever take any responsibility for any role she may have played in any problem?  I can't think of any time she has.

[RealHousewife]

19 hours ago, Jel said:

And please run one of Kyle's too. She also got physical on camera at least twice -- Brandi and Sutton -- which is one more than even Rinna, no?

I am in awe of how Kyle continues to get away with everything. Genuine awe. 

I feel like Kyle has a childlike lack of control when it comes to her emotions. 

I think some people take the whole "crying is strength" thing too far. I know that's not the cool opinion to have, but it's what I think. Is crying healthy? Yes, of course. I also get that it takes some strength not to care what others think of you crying. But an adult woman shouldn't cry over every little thing. Is letting out anger also healthy? Yes, but not by putting your hands on others, and you shouldn't scream and curse someone for nothing. Kyle is way too quick to have these tantrums. In some ways Big Kathy made her grow up very fast. She was driving herself at 13. She worked as a child. She became a wife and a mother very young. It's amazing to me someone with her life isn't more mature, but maybe she was just never taught to act right or didn't get a chance to grow up? IDK, but I find it fascinating as someone who's watched her on TV for many years and seen her constantly loose her cool.

One thing I've noticed is oftentimes some of the most aggressive people will use tears to play the victim in order to get away with stuff. 

[Taylor2023]

17 hours ago, ladle said:

Ugh, I'm so torn here. I want Kathy to come for alllll of these women at the reunion. I want her to function as a stand-in for us, the viewers. I want her to take Rinna and Erika to task. I want to stand up and cheer! 

But, the thing is, Kathy is really awful too. I'm basing this on behavior I've seen on the show, as well as external stuff that's not relevant to this thread. 

There are no heroes here.

You're right.  Kathy has her own eccentricities to wrangle with.   But hey, if the HWs were all perfect, we wouldn't be tuning in so much.  I mean, how boring would that be (June Cleaver TV), eh?

[SweetieDarling]

Speaking of Kyle's overuse of tears...I thought Kathy was interesting to watch apologizing at Kyle's. She started with an ice-breaker, attempting humor with her just coming in from the Ponderosa schtick. Then delivered a sincere sounding apology with no "but". Kyle accepted the apology and was ready to move on. When the apology wasn't good enough for Rinna, she tried to deflect reminding Rinna she's been guilty of unreasonable outbursts as well. Rinna shut that down, and she resorted to tears. The tears didn't work, so she took her ball and went home packed up her bag of tricks and left.

In Kathy's defense, she issued a well worded apology that, in most worlds would have been good enough (I won't say it was sincere, because I don't believe any of these women are sincere about anything except their love of labels and assumed wealth) It was interesting to watch her flip through her rolodex of reactions. It sounds like the Richard's household was filled with continuous catfights.

[Taylor2023]

40 minutes ago, Jel said:

I remember during Puppygate, this was a key part of the "evidence" they had against Lisa Vanderpump. Only Machiavellian LVP knows how to leak stories! No one else on the show knows how to, so there's your proof that Lisa did it! I thought that was so weird at the time because it was so obviously a lie. It's a 10 second google to figure how how to leak a story to a tabloid. Tabloids rely on people knowing how to leak stories, so they make it easy. It was a red flag.

Then Erika brought up the old "I don't know how to do that" last week. Mmn hmm

Also, I just read that sometime after the last epi, Kyle went on a podcast with Erika and Rinna and they were all very chummy and BFF-ish. 

How would that make Kathy feel? How did it make Kim feel when Kyle maintained her close friendship with Rinna after she'd been so awful to Kim? Betrayed?

Kyle seems to feel entitled to have her cake and eat it to. And if the sisters are hurt by what she has done, Kyle just sees herself as the victim.  The sisters react (not always in the best way) and Kyle sees herself as a victim of their reaction... a reaction to what she did. Does Kyle ever take any responsibility for any role she may have played in any problem?  I can't think of any time she has.

Yes, Kyle has her own demons poking her, but from my perspective, she is merely reacting (most of the time) to what outside forces have said or done.   Outside forces (Rinna, Kim, Brandi, etc.) that always seem to love causing drama.  She does love to control the conversation though.

Speaking of drama, I have often wondered if the HWs create the drama to get more viewers' interest.   Are they really that bad IRL?   Or are they constantly playing to the camera and ergo, to the ratings?

2 minutes ago, SweetieDarling said:

Speaking of Kyle's overuse of tears...I thought Kathy was interesting to watch apologizing at Kyle's. She started with an ice-breaker, attempting humor with her just coming in from the Ponderosa schtick. Then delivered a sincere sounding apology with no "but". Kyle accepted the apology and was ready to move on. When the apology wasn't good enough for Rinna, she tried to deflect reminding Rinna she's been guilty of unreasonable outbursts as well. Rinna shut that down, and she resorted to tears. The tears didn't work, so she took her ball and went home packed up her bag of tricks and left.

In Kathy's defense, she issued a well worded apology that, in most worlds would have been good enough (I won't say it was sincere, because I don't believe any of these women are sincere about anything except their love of labels and assumed wealth) It was interesting to watch her flip through her rolodex of reactions. It sounds like the Richard's household was filled with continuous catfights.

Sibling jealousy, rivalry and competition can be a vicious thing.   I've seen in-law family members IRL hold hatred for one another throughout their adulthood over spats that began in their childhood and teens.  They didn't need Covid or politics or mandates to divide them.  They already were completely divided.

Am watching The Monarch currently, and seeing a sibling rivalry in that show.   Haven't decided if I like the show well enough to keep watching...yet.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

17 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

One thing I've noticed is oftentimes some of the most aggressive people will use tears to play the victim in order to get away with stuff. 

I think it's a stretch to say that Kyle is a particularly aggressive person. On this show, Rinna and Erika are definitely more aggressive. IMO, Kyle is at the same level of aggression as Sutton and Garcelle and I don't think that any of them are overly aggressive - but they are willing to be confrontational if need be. (While I do think Kyle is crier, I am not sure there is much evidence she uses it to "get away with stuff.")

Re whether or not they will get rid of Rinna or Erika, I suspect one will be gone. My money is on them keeping Erika because I think they'll think there is more drama to be wrung out of her situation. But I think that all of the leaking and social media drama may be too much and Rinna is most expendable (and seemingly volatile).

I also wouldn't be surprised if Kathy doesn't come back but that might be of her own volition. 

[Taylor2023]

1 hour ago, chlban said:

I think we really have to boycott the show if Rinna returns. It's the only way, because you are both correct. BH is drawing a ton of interest and it isn't just Erika's legal issues now. I do agree that with Rinna gone, Erika will get the treatment she deserves. Kyle is too weak to stand on her own and we all know Dorit will go whichever way the wind is blowing. As for Diana, I can't imagine she will be back. I just saw a reviewer call her the worst Housewife casting decision ever. I would still go with Leah or Eboni, or both, for that honor, I mean they literally killed my favorite franchise,  but that is in part because they were very prominently featured where Diana has kind of been barely there all season. Thankfully.  Pretty sure she's one and done, but Lisa has to go.

You know, I think a contest of "who to pick" for next season would be fun.   I wonder if there is one somewhere....?

I can't even think of anyone right now that would be a good fit.  Anybody?

2 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I think it's a stretch to say that Kyle is a particularly aggressive person. On this show, Rinna and Erika are definitely more aggressive. IMO, Kyle is at the same level of aggression as Sutton and Garcelle and I don't think that any of them are overly aggressive - but they are willing to be confrontational if need be. (While I do think Kyle is crier, I am not sure there is much evidence she uses it to "get away with stuff.")

Re whether or not they will get rid of Rinna or Erika, I suspect one will be gone. My money is on them keeping Erika because I think they'll think there is more drama to be wrung out of her situation. But I think that all of the leaking and social media drama may be too much and Rinna is most expendable (and seemingly volatile).

I also wouldn't be surprised if Kathy doesn't come back but that might be of her own volition. 

I'd be willing to bet money that Kathy won't come back on the show.  Rinna will be there until they kick her to the curb.   She is addicted to the attention.   Where 'else' is she gonna get it?   Certainly not from her mostly absent ""husband"" and family.

[RealHousewife]

1 minute ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I think it's a stretch to say that Kyle is a particularly aggressive person. On this show, Rinna and Erika are definitely more aggressive. IMO, Kyle is at the same level of aggression as Sutton and Garcelle and I don't think that any of them are overly aggressive - but they are willing to be confrontational if need be. (While I do think Kyle is crier, I am not sure there is much evidence she uses it to "get away with stuff.")

Re whether or not they will get rid of Rinna or Erika, I suspect one will be gone. My money is on them keeping Erika because I think they'll think there is more drama to be wrung out of her situation. But I think that all of the leaking and social media drama may be too much and Rinna is most expendable (and seemingly volatile).

I also wouldn't be surprised if Kathy doesn't come back but that might be of her own volition. 

I find Rinna's and Erika's threats more, well, threatening than Kyle's manhandling, but agree to disagree that Kyle is the same level of aggressive as Sutton and Garcelle. Those two don't put their hands on others and are gentler people in general. Garcelle in particularly has shown tremendous patience dealing with these women. Kyle would have lost her mind if Erika cursed out Portia. Kyle in general has led the pack with gang-ups and is quick to scream and curse people out. Garcelle isn't that way at all, neither is Sutton. Sutton isn't as smooth as Garcelle navigating the show, but even when she slips, she apologizes over and over again. They're the only two I'd want to be friends with of this cast. 

[Taylor2023]

1 hour ago, chlban said:

This. She is a has been B list actress. Her biggest role was on Melrose Place, a show I enjoyed, but not exactly on the level of Mad Men or any other highly respected drama. Their home is no doubt worth a bundle because of location and the amount of land they have, but who knows how mortgaged it is. The 90's kitchen says it all, they may be what my Mom used to call "house poor"-lot's of value in the home but no cash to keep it up. Yes, Harry still works some and Lisa is probably getting a huge salary from the show, but everything is relative. The fact that she spends money on her clown costumes is a shame, not sure if she is chanellimg Kim K or Elton John most days. Her only notoriety now is being married to "Harry Hamlin" (maybe why she always uses his full name) and being one of the most hated housewives ever. She hoped her daughters would become super models like Gigi Hadid-whose mother was one of Lisa's earliest victims on the show. I bet that really burns. Yes, very unhappy, bitter woman and she sure can't hide it anymore. Good thing Eileen got out when she did, although I was sorry to see her go at the time. Had she stayed, I would bet big money she would have become one of Lisa's victims by now. 

Yeah, I really liked Eileen.   I liked LVP, also.   It seems that Rinna has a lot of notches on her belt to be proud of.   Can't wait to see Kathy fire back.

4 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I find Rinna's and Erika's threats more, well, threatening than Kyle's manhandling, but agree to disagree that Kyle is the same level of aggressive as Sutton and Garcelle. Those two don't put their hands on others and are gentler people in general. Garcelle in particularly has shown tremendous patience dealing with these women. Kyle would have lost her mind if Erika cursed out Portia. Kyle in general has led the pack with gang-ups and is quick to scream and curse people out. Garcelle isn't that way at all, neither is Sutton. Sutton isn't as smooth as Garcelle navigating the show, but even when she slips, she apologizes over and over again. They're the only two I'd want to be friends with of this cast. 

I didn't think I was going to like Sutton at first.   That "southern bit" threw me off (and I'm southern).   But she has grown on me, as has Garcelle.   

One question.  If the show gets rid of the main villain (Rinna), will it still be as watch-worthy?   Or....are we, as viewers, also addicted...

to the drama.  lolol

3 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I don't think Kyle is "some innocent" and certainly she could have ordered Kathy's tequila to placate her. But I also think Kathy is an adult who could have and should have said something to Rinna directly about ordering the tequila instead of expecting Kyle to do so. But regardless, we both agree that Rinna was being deliberately provocative with all of that.

Rinna knew exactly what she was doing there.   As usual, she plays the Devil, not the Devil's Advocate.

[Taylor2023]

2 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

I will say that  good or bad the season really did get the fans engaged and at the end of the day that’s exactly what Bravo wants 

The more HW drama, the better the ratings, and thus, the better chance of increases in salary from Bravo.   That's how things work in the real world.   Money makes the world go round, especially in the realm of the entertainment industry.

[Taylor2023]

2 hours ago, njbchlover said:

Kyle and Kathy should have looked to RHONJ to see what happens when family joins a show.  The Guidice/Gorga fued is an on-going thing.  The Manzo/Laurita family members (Dina, Caroline and Jacqueline) no longer speak to each other, either.  Family dynamics can often be dramatic enough without having cameras in your face constantly and asshole producers fueling fires during talking head interviews.  Things that are said cannot be unsaid, and if said on camera, they take on a "forever life" in the tabloids, podcasts and gossip sites.

It's like everything else in life.   People 'think' they can handle it....they think 'that was them, we're different'....and their arrogance in that respect always comes back to bite them in the end.   

[Taylor2023]

On 10/7/2022 at 9:53 PM, Cosmocrush said:

All true, but all the money (and tailored suits) send him over the top!!

He is quite a hunk, and unlike most really good-looking men, he's also a decent, nice (and likable) guy.   That makes him a real catch these days.   I'm betting Kyle's biggest fear in life is losing him.   And I wouldn't blame her for that fear.   

PK seems a bit snobbish and arrogant at times.   Not sure I could get along with him at all.

I think if they're going to bring on any new HWs, they need to pick ones that actually DO have a "present" husband....for a refreshing change....lol.

These MIA husbands, or ex-husbands really aren't cutting it with me.

[chlban]

43 minutes ago, Taylor2023 said:

You know, I think a contest of "who to pick" for next season would be fun.   I wonder if there is one somewhere....?

I can't even think of anyone right now that would be a good fit.  Anybody?

I'd be willing to bet money that Kathy won't come back on the show.  Rinna will be there until they kick her to the curb.   She is addicted to the attention.   Where 'else' is she gonna get it?   Certainly not from her mostly absent ""husband"" and family.

Sadly, you are probably right. 

[Keywestclubkid]

After this WHY would Kathy come back? Lisa Rinna allowed to just say whatever she wants with no consequences would not make me wanna come back ..

[SemiCharmedLife]

19 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Anyway, I think Rinna's miscalculation towards Kathy was in assuming that Kathy would deny what happened. But since she didn't, all of Rinna's arguments of "you need to take responsibility" didn't make sense. So then she upped the ante with "well, you need to get help." C'mon, Rinna. Projection much?

As for Erika, her whole argument falls apart, too, because again Kathy admitted her behavior was bad. Erika keeps denying she did anything wrong, changes her story, and attacks Sutton and then can't understand why that is different from the situation from Kathy, whose outburst wasn't on camera and ultimately admitted on camera that she behaved badly and apologized. 

Rinna and Erika should have taken the L on this one but couldn't. And I am sure that is where part of the drama comes from during the reunion. 

This is exactly right!  And, last week Erika even said herself that if Kathy apologizes sincerely they can all move on.  Really???  This is advice Erika should have taken herself- she would have done herself a world of good by producing any amount of compassion for Tom's victims.  

Also, Erika needs to get a new "publicist" (there are lots of online rumors about this guy). He has done her no favors if he has been handling her press/social media this past year.  His specialty is supposedly cleaning up public images after scandals, etc, yet Erika's trajectory is the the bottom of the ocean.  She couldn't have handled herself worse if she tried.  That's okay with me, though, because we get to see her for the vile creature she is.

[chlban]

9 minutes ago, Taylor2023 said:

He is quite a hunk, and unlike most really good-looking men, he's also a decent, nice (and likable) guy.   That makes him a real catch these days.   I'm betting Kyle's biggest fear in life is losing him.   And I wouldn't blame her for that fear.   

PK seems a bit snobbish and arrogant at times.   Not sure I could get along with him at all.

I think if they're going to bring on any new HWs, they need to pick ones that actually DO have a "present" husband....for a refreshing change....lol.

These MIA husbands, or ex-husbands really aren't cutting it with me.

While I agree Mauricio is handsome, I don't think the marriage is what Kyle thinks or pretends it is. Having been married to a controlled alcoholic-drank every day although most people would never know he was drunk. He was  ever loud or abusive just quietly drunk, much like a guy that gets stoned daily, which it certainly appears Mauricio does, I can't tell you it isn't fun. Ironically, my Ex was also a very successful Real Estate Agent-but not in BH so certainly didn't do as well as Mo. Also, my ex, for whatever flaws he had, is a really decent guy and would never cheat or lie for a deal, which I am convinced MO does. I also 100% believe he cheats 

1 minute ago, SemiCharmedLife said:

This is exactly right!  And, last week Erika even said herself that if Kathy apologizes sincerely they can all move on.  Really???  This is advice Erika should have taken herself- she would have done herself a world of good by producing any amount of compassion for Tom's victims.  

Also, Erika needs to get a new "publicist" (there are lots of online rumors about this guy). He has done her no favors if he has been handling her press/social media this past year.  His specialty is supposedly cleaning up public images after scandals, etc, yet Erika's trajectory is the the bottom of the ocean.  She couldn't have handled herself worse if she tried.  That's okay with me, though, because we get to see her for the vile creature she is.

Why would any publicist with a good reputation want to take on Erika? As she snarls "I only care about me" and insinuates the actual victims are running a con on Narional Television? Yeah, pretty sure publicists are not lining up at her door.

[chlban]

19 minutes ago, Taylor2023 said:

He is quite a hunk, and unlike most really good-looking men, he's also a decent, nice (and likable) guy.   That makes him a real catch these days.   I'm betting Kyle's biggest fear in life is losing him.   And I wouldn't blame her for that fear.   

PK seems a bit snobbish and arrogant at times.   Not sure I could get along with him at all.

I think if they're going to bring on any new HWs, they need to pick ones that actually DO have a "present" husband....for a refreshing change....lol.

These MIA husbands, or ex-husbands really aren't cutting it with me.

I don't much care about the husbands honestly. I am really sick of Mauricio being on a girls trip, presumably to hype his new show. He stays stoned to live with Kyle, I am not sure there is enough Weed in CA to have to endure her and the rest of the Coven on a week long trip. He must really be desperate for screen time and he adds nothing as far as I can tell.

[Jel]

30 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I find Rinna's and Erika's threats more, well, threatening than Kyle's manhandling, but agree to disagree that Kyle is the same level of aggressive as Sutton and Garcelle. Those two don't put their hands on others and are gentler people in general. Garcelle in particularly has shown tremendous patience dealing with these women. Kyle would have lost her mind if Erika cursed out Portia. Kyle in general has led the pack with gang-ups and is quick to scream and curse people out. Garcelle isn't that way at all, neither is Sutton. Sutton isn't as smooth as Garcelle navigating the show, but even when she slips, she apologizes over and over again. They're the only two I'd want to be friends with of this cast. 

Agree completely, and this relates back to your previous post about Kyle's highly charged emotional reactions. Her too frequent outbursts (tears, anger, pushing, shoving grabbing and in your face finger pointing) paint a picture of an emotionally immature 50 year old woman.

Re: excessive crying:  I've met a few very, very sensitive people in my life, and they may cry more often that others, but they are also very gentle people. They don't lash out and say mean things to others.  Kyle is not that person. Her frequent crying seems more dysfunction based or manipulative to me.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I've said this before and will likely say it again, but publicists and PR people often get blamed when the person they work for messes up publicly or with the media. I think Erika's responsible for the way she is handling media and social media and it's probably not because of her publicists advice.

[Taylor2023]

15 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

After this WHY would Kathy come back? Lisa Rinna allowed to just say whatever she wants with no consequences would not make me wanna come back ..

It's not just that.  It's the possible damage to the new-found relationship with Kyle that's at stake.   Rinna needs a new crown to wear.   She should be forced to wear it.   One with horns.

2 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I've said this before and will likely say it again, but publicists and PR people often get blamed when the person they work for messes up publicly or with the media. I think Erika's responsible for the way she is handling media and social media and it's probably not because of her publicists advice.

She is very defensive.   I try to put myself in her place, tho.   Having all that wealth and luxury, to be on top of the world....and to suddenly have it all ripped away and be blamed for what your husband and his law firm did?   I can't blame her for defending herself as she thinks necessary.   I understand it.  Most people under these circumstances do NOT make good choices because they're under stress and over-emotional.

[Cosmocrush]

6 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

After this WHY would Kathy come back? Lisa Rinna allowed to just say whatever she wants with no consequences would not make me wanna come back ..

Same reason Sutton came back after a season of being pummeled and bullied without anyone really defending her although I'm not sure if it's the fame for Sutton or the exposure for her business, which I guess is essentially the same thing.   With Kathy I think it's the fame - she participated in turning her famewhore daughter's wedding into a reality show. 

Although I liked Eileen on the show, I was impressed that she left (reportedly because she said no to being demoted to 'friend') and didn't really ever look back. 

[Taylor2023]

8 minutes ago, chlban said:

I don't much care about the husbands honestly. I am really sick of Mauricio being on a girls trip, presumably to hype his new show. He stays stoned to live with Kyle, I am not sure there is enough Weed in CA to have to endure her and the rest of the Coven on a week long trip. He must really be desperate for screen time and he adds nothing as far as I can tell.

Wow.  Ok.   To each their own.

I think Mauricio being on the girls trip is odd, but funny and cute.   He's a huggy bear that serves as my 'eye candy' (me being straight and all...lol).

Calling them a Coven is, I hope, merely in the spirit of the season.   Do I bash them from time to time for their antics?  Hell yeah.   But IRL, I don't think any of them are "witches".    They play to the cameras for ratings and for job security (contracts with Bravo).... which makes us watch them more.   Who can blame them for that?   

Rinna is the most "needy" on the show and her antics are always way over the top.....due to her emotional need for attention and craving for those ratings.   I think she loves playing the villain.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

53 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I find Rinna's and Erika's threats more, well, threatening than Kyle's manhandling, but agree to disagree that Kyle is the same level of aggressive as Sutton and Garcelle. Those two don't put their hands on others and are gentler people in general. Garcelle in particularly has shown tremendous patience dealing with these women. Kyle would have lost her mind if Erika cursed out Portia. Kyle in general has led the pack with gang-ups and is quick to scream and curse people out. Garcelle isn't that way at all, neither is Sutton. Sutton isn't as smooth as Garcelle navigating the show, but even when she slips, she apologizes over and over again. They're the only two I'd want to be friends with of this cast. 

I think people on this forum are far more concerned about Kyle's "manhandling" of Sutton than Sutton herself seemed to me (especially because didn't say one word about it), which says to me that Kyle may be demonstrative physically (some people are) but not in a way that a person who knows her feels is aggressive or threatening.

Garcelle has absolutely led attempted pile-ons this year, most notably with Crystal. Sutton has also been very confrontational with both Crystal and Diana, and just this episode led the confrontation re Rinna/Erika and the media leaking. 

To me all of these actions are on par with Kyle. There is a difference in that Kyle has more friendships so yeah, the pile-ons then happen. But in terms of being willing to confront people in a group - I don't see much difference. 

To be fair, I actually don't think that Kyle, Garcelle or Sutton are necessarily inappropriate in being willing to be confrontational. They all understand how the show works - and to be fair to all three of them, they will also have one-on-one conversations to hash out issues. But IMO, the idea that Kyle is so aggressive is based more on one's perceptions of Kyle and not so much based on her actual actions. 

26 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

After this WHY would Kathy come back? Lisa Rinna allowed to just say whatever she wants with no consequences would not make me wanna come back ..

Money, maybe. But otherwise, I wouldn't come back if I were her.

[SemiCharmedLife]

1 hour ago, Taylor2023 said:

You know, I think a contest of "who to pick" for next season would be fun.   I wonder if there is one somewhere....?

I can't even think of anyone right now that would be a good fit.  Anybody?

I'd be willing to bet money that Kathy won't come back on the show.  Rinna will be there until they kick her to the curb.   She is addicted to the attention.   Where 'else' is she gonna get it?   Certainly not from her mostly absent ""husband"" and family.

Which means the FF5, Kyle included, were once again successful in targeting someone and bringing them down.  They tried a bit with Garcelle last year (she's a bully???) and with Sutton this season.  Thank goodness those two had each others' back (though Garcelle got heat for being Sutton's "bodyguard"- something Rinna doesn't get accused of with all her Erika defenses).  I'm really tired of the repeated ganging up on fan favorites by mean girls who derive pleasure from others' pain.

[Oneofem]

‘Tis a puzzlement to me why Kathy has so much support when she allegedly made racist and homophobic remarks at the Aspen private club, then used her $$$$ to legally silence/reduce discussion.  Defending a lawsuit for most folks is a costly, time-consuming, mentally and emotionally draining experience, win or lose.  Bigshots always win in America.

[RealHousewife]

6 minutes ago, Jel said:

Agree completely, and this relates back to your previous post about Kyle's highly charged emotional reactions. Her too frequent outbursts (tears, anger, pushing, shoving grabbing and in your face finger pointing) paint a picture of an emotionally immature 50 year old woman.

Re: excessive crying:  I've met a few very, very sensitive people in my life, and they may cry more often that others, but they are also very gentle people. They don't lash out and say mean things to others.  Kyle is not that person. Her frequent crying seems more dysfunction based or manipulative to me.

Exactly! The really sensitive, gentle people do not bother me at all! I feel for them when they cry, and I want to protect them. I'm an inwardly very sensitive person myself., and I've worked on toughening up and navigating my emotions like an adult. It's the Kyle types who drive me crazy. If I thought some of her behavior were due to menopause (like I thought with Sutton), I'd get it more. But she's had these outbursts on TV since 2010. 

Just now, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I think people on this forum are far more concerned about Kyle's "manhandling" of Sutton than Sutton herself seemed to me (especially because didn't say one word about it), which says to me that Kyle may be demonstrative physically (some people are) but not in a way that a person who knows her feels is aggressive or threatening.

Garcelle has absolutely led attempted pile-ons this year, most notably with Crystal. Sutton has also been very confrontational with both Crystal and Diana, and just this episode led the confrontation re Rinna/Erika and the media leaking. 

To me all of these actions are on par with Kyle. There is a difference in that Kyle has more friendships so yeah, the pile-ons then happen. But in terms of being willing to confront people in a group - I don't see much difference. 

To be fair, I actually don't think that Kyle, Garcelle or Sutton are necessarily inappropriate in being willing to be confrontational. They all understand how the show works - and to be fair to all three of them, they will also have one-on-one conversations to hash out issues. But IMO, the idea that Kyle is so aggressive is based more on one's perceptions of Kyle and not so much based on her actual actions. 

I don't believe it's appropriate for friends or coworkers to grab or shove one another. 

Who has Garcelle piled on? Sutton doesn't always handle things well, but she is not an aggressive bully imo. I would never compare Sutton's antics with Kyle in the limo, Game Night, losing her mind, crying, and screaming fuck you to Dorit over Barbie glam, I could go on and on. No comparison for me. 

Our views of Kyle are so different not sure there's much point in even debating. Don't get me wrong, there's a side to her I really like. She seems like a very loving mother and wife. She can be fun and funny and charismatic. There are seasons she's even been a favorite of mine. I'm not the biggest Kyle hater on the board at all. But I still see her as an aggressive, emotionally immature woman. Garcelle for me on the other hand is the classiest person who's been on the show. If she asks Erika about questions regarding her husband's stealing from orphans and widows, GOOD! If Kyle is part of grilling Denise about her sex life or an outnumbered, grieving Vanderpump, not a fan. Garcelle is consistently on the right side of things, whereas Kyle is not imo. 

[SemiCharmedLife]

12 minutes ago, Taylor2023 said:

Calling them a Coven is, I hope, merely in the spirit of the season.   Do I bash them from time to time for their antics?  Hell yeah.   But IRL, I don't think any of them are "witches".    They play to the cameras for ratings and for job security (contracts with Bravo).... which makes us watch them more.   Who can blame them for that?   

Rinna is the most "needy" on the show and her antics are always way over the top.....due to her emotional need for attention and craving for those ratings.   I think she loves playing the villain.

I'm sure Rinna and others will use the excuse that they are just playing a part for drama and ratings (and to keep their diamonds), but their actions have real world consequences.  There may be some producer shenanigans and scripted events, but this is largely a reality show where people are affected by what others do and say.  One example is Erika's verbal abuse of Garcelle's son Jax and then the online vitriol he went through.  Rinna and gang continue to bring others down, letting the chips fall where they may and, in my opinion, it doesn't feel like entertainment anymore.

[Jel]

Perfect post, @RealHousewife

[eleanorofaquitaine]

51 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I don't believe it's appropriate for friends or coworkers to grab or shove one another. 

Who has Garcelle piled on? Sutton doesn't always handle things well, but she is not an aggressive bully imo. I would never compare Sutton's antics with Kyle in the limo, Game Night, losing her mind, crying, and screaming fuck you to Dorit over Barbie glam, I could go on and on. No comparison for me. 

Our views of Kyle are so different not sure there's much point in even debating. Don't get me wrong, there's a side to her I really like. She seems like a very loving mother and wife. She can be fun and funny and charismatic. There are seasons she's even been a favorite of mine. I'm not the biggest Kyle hater on the board at all. But I still see her as an aggressive, emotionally immature woman. Garcelle for me on the other hand is the classiest person who's been on the show. If she asks Erika about questions regarding her husband's stealing from orphans and widows, GOOD! If Kyle is part of grilling Denise about her sex life or an outnumbered, grieving Vanderpump, not a fan. Garcelle is consistently on the right side of things, whereas Kyle is not imo. 

I wouldn't like it either but some people have a higher tolerance for friends being physically demonstrative. If Sutton said literally anything about it, I would be on her side. But she hasn't, which leads be to believe that she just doesn't see Kyle as aggressive physically.

As I said in my post, Garcelle led a bit of a pile-on earlier in the season re Crystal (about Sutton's comments from last season).  In my view, she was not on the "right side" of that.

I also don't she was on the "right side" of her initial antipathy of Kyle - including calling Kyle out at a charity event for seemingly no reason - though I like the fact that they have built a cordial relationship. (FWIW, I also thought it was really unfortunate that Garcelle claimed she was closer to Kathy on WWHL, though I appreciate that she apologized to Kyle pretty quickly thereafter).

As for Denise, I don't have the same view of Saint Denise that many do here. I do appreciate that Garcelle was loyal to her friend but I don’t think Denise's side was so obviously the right one. 

So on the whole, I don't find that Garcelle has been so consistently on the "right side." I do like Garcelle but like all of these women, she has her flaws. As does Sutton and much like Garcelle, I have grown to appreciate Sutton but find that some of the criticisms leveled at her are fair.

In all three cases, though, Kyle, Garcelle and Sutton all understand that a certain level of drama is necessary to make this show work. And IMO, their actions are roughly equivalent in moving the drama along. Unlike, for instance, Erika, I wouldn't be afraid to be in a room with all three of them because I don't think any of the three of them would threaten me. 🙂

ETA: Garcelle also led the confrontation with Erika about the earrings in Aspen. (I don't think confrontation is inherently bad and I was fine that she did that but I think that confrontation fits the definition of a pile-on. Erika deserved it, though, so don't take it as a defense of Erika).

Edited October 9, 2022 by eleanorofaquitaine

[RealHousewife]

1 hour ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I wouldn't like it either but some people have a higher tolerance for friends being physically demonstrative. If Sutton said literally anything about it, I would be on her side. But she hasn't, which leads be to believe that she just doesn't see Kyle as aggressive physically.

As I said in my post, Garcelle led a bit of a pile-on earlier in the season re Crystal (about Sutton's comments from last season).  In my view, she was not on the "right side" of that.

I also don't she was on the "right side" of her initial antipathy of Kyle - including calling Kyle out at a charity event for seemingly no reason - though I like the fact that they have built a cordial relationship. (FWIW, I also thought it was really unfortunate that Garcelle claimed she was closer to Kathy on WWHL, though I appreciate that she apologized to Kyle pretty quickly thereafter).

As for Denise, I don't have the same view of Saint Denise that many do here. I do appreciate that Garcelle was loyal to her friend but I don’t think Denise's side was so obviously the right one. 

So on the whole, I don't find that Garcelle has been so consistently on the "right side." I do like Garcelle but like all of these women, she has her flaws. As does Sutton and much like Garcelle, I have grown to appreciate Sutton but find that some of the criticisms leveled at her are fair.

In all three cases, though, Kyle, Garcelle and Sutton all understand that a certain level of drama is necessary to make this show work. And IMO, their actions are roughly equivalent in moving the drama along. Unlike, for instance, Erika, I wouldn't be afraid to be in a room with all three of them because I don't think any of the three of them would threaten me. 🙂

ETA: Garcelle also led the confrontation with Erika about the earrings in Aspen. (I don't think confrontation is inherently bad and I was fine that she did that but I think that confrontation fits the definition of a pile-on. Erika deserved it, though, so don't take it as a defense of Erika).

I think where we see things differently is I think it's good to confront something if you think there's been serious wrongdoing, like living off the $ that belonged to orphans and widows or your friend being thrown under the bus. That's when Garcelle speaks up. That doesn't make her a bully or aggressive. Kyle is pushy and blows up at people over stuff that's nonsense or not her business. 

When Erika was minding her own business in France, Kyle was like a dog with a bone and wouldn't leave her alone because Erika wasn't having a teenager slumber party mentality or didn't care about Rinna's Halloween version of her. She and Teddi were ridiculous. When Erika is threatening Sutton, Kyle throws her under the bus and calls her two-faced. When Erika is hitting on a married man and cursing at a kid, Kyle has no issue with it. She even thinks it's funny. Sure she'd have a different view if that were her 14-year-old. I just think her judgment is normally off. I'm not saying Denise Richards is a saint, but she didn't do anything to deserve the way she was treated on the show. 

Also, not saying Kyle's level of aggression would leave me feeling scared for my life or anything like that. Just that it is aggressive and she should keep her hands off the other ladies. She has some nerve to think she has the right to do that imo. She's the same person who got a nasty tone with Dorit and said "Don't ever talk to me like that again!" Say what you want about Dorito, but she doesn't grab or shove, and she isn't as confrontational as Kyle either.  

We'll agree to disagree because we'll end up going around in circles. I have never thought Garcelle did anything beyond the pale, whereas I have felt that about Kyle. I do appreciate reading your posts and that you have a different opinion. It would get boring if we all had the same thoughts on the show. 

Edited October 9, 2022 by RealHousewife

[Slakkie]

2 hours ago, Oneofem said:

‘Tis a puzzlement to me why Kathy has so much support when she allegedly made racist and homophobic remarks at the Aspen private club, then used her $$$$ to legally silence/reduce discussion.  Defending a lawsuit for most folks is a costly, time-consuming, mentally and emotionally draining experience, win or lose.  Bigshots always win in America.

Do we know that is true?  Those articles specifically mentioned Sutton's assistant who was not in Aspen.  For all we know that was added for spice and also was a good cover that Erika and Rinna could say 'see its not true so how could it be us?'

Unless there is proof I think it is unfair to assume that is true.  What we know is she threw a big ole temper tantrum and acted like a fool.  Other than that I do not know.  This is why Bravo needs to shut this kind of shit down - if it does not happen on camera it is not part of the show.

[ladle]

3 hours ago, Taylor2023 said:

You're right.  Kathy has her own eccentricities to wrangle with.   But hey, if the HWs were all perfect, we wouldn't be tuning in so much.  I mean, how boring would that be (June Cleaver TV), eh?

Oh, eccentricities are fine. I love eccentricities! But there’s a lot of evidence, from the show and elsewhere, that Kathy Hilton is a Not Good Person. 
 

ETA: I’m not even talking about the racial/homophobic slurs that may or may not have happened. 

Edited October 9, 2022 by ladle

[Oneofem]

I don’t know anything I don’t read here, pretty much - don’t follow SM, etc.     And I don’t wanna argue, but apparently the employees at that Aspen club risk job loss (or worse ) if they comment, and most others would find threat of legal action from a HILTON (certainly as opposed to a present day Girardi) Uber intimidating.

[Surrealist]

9 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

I think some people take the whole "crying is strength" thing too far. I know that's not the cool opinion to have, but it's what I think. Is crying healthy? Yes, of course. I also get that it takes some strength not to care what others think of you crying. But an adult woman shouldn't cry over every little thing. Is letting out anger also healthy?

One thing I've noticed is oftentimes some of the most aggressive people will use tears to play the victim in order to get away with stuff. 

I'm highlighting this because I love you for saying it. 

The middle ground is seemingly oftentimes overlooked. So many operate within the extremes: zero emotion and overly emotional. Both types are exhausting to be around.

So, I'll join you on the bench in agreement.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Surrealist

[gingerella]

4 hours ago, Taylor2023 said:

Yes, Kyle has her own demons poking her, but from my perspective, she is merely reacting (most of the time) to what outside forces have said or done.   Outside forces (Rinna, Kim, Brandi, etc.) that always seem to love causing drama.  She does love to control the conversation though.

I would disagree vehemently with the above bolded part. We have seen Vyle Kyle over and over and over again, nearly every season, stir Ye Olde Shit Pot with glee. Anytime something contentious comes up and it seems to have been put to rest, this hag has to bring it back up AGAIN, almost always in the company of those who are involved. It's blatant bitchery and shit stirring and she does it all the time. It's like she simply has to have people continue to beat that dead issue as a group, no matter if the people involved feel it's been a squashed issue already. Kyle is a very sad little person IMO. She thinks she is AMAZING. She is soooo beautiful! She has a HOT husband! She has FABULOUS kids! And look how ZANY she is with her SPLITS and her pony tail TWIRLING! But what I see is a vacuous shell of a person, who is so empty on the inside that she has to fill herself up with constant buying of expensive clothing and jewelry, who has way too many dogs because it causes chaos and she loves chaos because if she had to sit with herself and her thoughts she would have to acknowledge how fucked up she is, so she fills herself up with pretty, expensive crap, and surrounds herself in chaos so she is always busy busy busy. People like her never want to do the work on themselves, they just want to take down others so they feel better about their sad, pathetic lives. Really, she could have it all but she squanders it away because she's so shallow. She and Erika actually make a great pair, along with Asslips because all three of them have these traits and issues in common.

DISCLAIMER: No I am not a psychologist, nor do I play one on TV.

[realityplease]

2 hours ago, Taylor2023 said:

She is very defensive.   I try to put myself in her place, tho.   Having all that wealth and luxury, to be on top of the world....and to suddenly have it all ripped away and be blamed for what your husband and his law firm did?   I can't blame her for defending herself as she thinks necessary.   I understand it.  Most people under these circumstances do NOT make good choices because they're under stress and over-emotional.

No sympathy here. Erika isn't from wealth, just a wanna-be entertainer who worked in a strip club & as a cocktail waitress when she latched onto Tom.  Money wasn't "ripped away" from her.  It was frozen due to Tom's client theft & fraudulent loans. Further, it was Tom's amassed wealth.  Not what SHE earned (albeit "earned" as community property by catering to Tom, his chauvinism & ego on the show & elsewhere.)  It's not nothing.  Dealing daily with a cheating, pompous ass isn't for everyone.  But Erika Jayne burned through money - she didn't make it.  Clearly, she enjoyed Tom's money while it lasted - but NOTHING in this life is promised - at all - much less, forever. 

So boohoo - she has to scale down.  Many don't live as lavishly for a day much less decades!  Her continual whining about losing her lifestyle is an affront to anyone who wakes each morning & scrambles to provide for themself/others or suffers loss thru tragedy, loss of life or limb, or horrible circumstances.  You know, like those Tom robbed of their settlements & for whom she shows not an ounce of remorse - whether she had a finger in causing it or not. 

Actually, you sound like a publicist for Erika.  She's "blamed for what Tom & his law firm did."  Pure assumption.  Neither you nor we know what Erika (or the law firm) knew or did while Tom engaged in decades of theft & deceit. Or what part, if any, to cover-up/hide assets after the misdeeds discovered.  No.  She's being judged for her reactions. And they're not good.  So over the top. Like someone with something to hide or cover up. 

Yes, people make bad decisions when stressed or emotional.  (That's why lawyers, publicists, experts exist. To advise & do damage control & stop bad decisions.)  Presumably, Erika's had plenty of advice.  But she keeps doubling down.  When Erika diverts attention to others, calls publicists (doesn't know how? give me a break!!), conspires, whines, throws tantrums, this is her informed choice to act badly.  She has a weekly forum to air a "defense" but shown us the worst - the greedy, bitter, disloyal, self-centered liar.  Bad advice or repeated bad decisions? Who knows? But obviously, what she wants to do and has done - week after week.      

[JonnieUniteUs]

7 hours ago, chlban said:

As for Diana, I can't imagine she will be back. I just saw a reviewer call her the worst Housewife casting decision ever. I would still go with Leah or Eboni, or both, for that honor, I mean they literally killed my favorite franchise,  but that is in part because they were very prominently featured

I may be castigated for this, but I would take Diana over Eboni any day.  And I am NOT a fan of Diana and feel she should never return to the show.  Eboni and Leah helped to RUIN a franchise.   That’s probably why they had to go the all-stars route to have any other NY season.   Some of the women were afraid to film w Eboni and refused to if I understand correctly.

[JD5166]

3 hours ago, Slakkie said:

Do we know that is true?  Those articles specifically mentioned Sutton's assistant who was not in Aspen.  For all we know that was added for spice and also was a good cover that Erika and Rinna could say 'see its not true so how could it be us?'

Unless there is proof I think it is unfair to assume that is true.  What we know is she threw a big ole temper tantrum and acted like a fool.  Other than that I do not know.  This is why Bravo needs to shut this kind of shit down - if it does not happen on camera it is not part of the show.

To be fair, I suppose Joshua didn’t need to be there for Kathy to call him a name since she “allegedly” did everyone else? The unfortunate truth is we’ll never know...only Kathy knows. But I hate Lipsa so I tend to lean towards Kathy’s version. We all call Kyle names....who can blame her? Kyle needled her that whole trip.....she’s such an asshole. 

[SemiCharmedLife]

On 10/8/2022 at 2:23 PM, Surrealist said:

I've never been a big drinker, but for the Reunion, I think I'll stock up.

Maybe we need a drinking game for the reunion.  I'll start us off with a couple of ideas:

* Drink every time Rinna says "Own it."

* Take a shot every time Erika snarls.

* Sip your drink every time Diana licks her lips (small sip, don't want anyone to pass out and miss the rest of the show!)

* Drink some water each time Kyle cries (we need to stay hydrated)

[Stats Queen]

19 minutes ago, SemiCharmedLife said:

Maybe we need a drinking game for the reunion.  I'll start us off with a couple of ideas:

* Drink every time Rinna says "Own it."

* Take a shot every time Erika snarls.

* Sip your drink every time Diana licks her lips (small sip, don't want anyone to pass out and miss the rest of the show!)

* Drink some water each time Kyle cries (we need to stay hydrated)

* Pour a new drink every time Andy doesn’t hold Erika or Rinna accountable.

[Surrealist]

2 hours ago, realityplease said:

Not what SHE earned (albeit "earned" as community property by catering to Tom, his chauvinism & ego on the show & elsewhere.)  It's not nothing.

Also can't really say "earned" when that money was stolen from others (those with way less than them).

(We're saying the same, basically. 😂)

Edited October 10, 2022 by Surrealist

[Door County Cherry]

Please stay on topic to the My Sister's Keeper episode. 

RHofNY is not relevant to this episode.  Neither are most house husbands.  Please don't talk about the reunion in here.  

[ladle]

14 hours ago, janiema said:

If Rinna hadn’t been involved this problem never would have occurred in the first place. If Rinna had not made such a big deal of disrespecting Kathy and her Tequila, Kathy would not have blown up. Also, if Kyle had acted like mist other sisters and had stepped in saying something to the effect of “I’d like to try Kathy’s tequila” the problem would have been averted. Kyle should have supported her sister and she is not some innocent. 

I swear I am not a Kyle Richards apologist, but when Kathy awkwardly brought up her tequila at the Aspen house it seemed that Kyle was high, so she kind of gets a pass from me for not feigning interest in that moment. And then later in the hat shop when Rinna pulled her stunt with the 818 tequila, it looked like Kyle was all the way across the room. So, while I would like to see Kyle called to the carpet for a lot of things she’s done, I just don’t think we can lay this at her feet. Rinna was being petty and mean, and Kathy is 100% responsible for how she responded to that. 

[janiema]

2 hours ago, Surrealist said:

Also can't really say "earned" when that money was stolen from others (those with way less than them).

(We're saying the same, basically. 😂)

Stolen money is considered to be taxable income!

[hoodooznoodooz]

So Erika’s admiring herself in Kyle’s mirror. She grabs her breasts and pushes them up and together. Shouldn’t you do that in the bathroom?
I know this is a minor offense, compared to everything else. 

[Mother of Odin]

17 hours ago, Surrealist said:

I'm highlighting this because I love you for saying it. 

No one ever finds the medium. So many operate within the extremes: zero emotion and overly emotional. Both types are exhausting to be around.

So, I'll join you on the bench in agreement.

I cry daily Can't help it

[truthaboutluv]

Others noticed as well. Side by side of Rinna and Kim Kardshian in the same look. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CjYTck8s7mq/

[suzeecat]

On 10/7/2022 at 9:51 PM, RealHousewife said:

No you're not. Mauricio's widely considered one of the hottest Housewife husbands, if not the hottest. Kyle also made a comment that when she first got with Mauricio, she saw him as a nice Jewish boy, and that he became more attractive the older he got. He was always cute, but kind of the awkward skinny guy when he was young. He's aged like fine wine. 

Mm-Hmm, doesn't hurt that he's mega-rich!!!

[MMEButterfly]

22 hours ago, Taylor2023 said:

You know, I think a contest of "who to pick" for next season would be fun.   I wonder if there is one somewhere....?

I can't even think of anyone right now that would be a good fit.  Anybody?

I'd be willing to bet money that Kathy won't come back on the show.  Rinna will be there until they kick her to the curb.   She is addicted to the attention.   Where 'else' is she gonna get it?   Certainly not from her mostly absent ""husband"" and family.

For me the problem with Rinne is that she isn't interesting, not at all. Kathy is interesting with her weird little ways. Erika is an interesting villain. Rinne is not. There's much to explore with the other HWs.