S01.E03: Reckoning

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Cassian's desperation to avoid arrest leads him to a mysterious man with unknown connections.

Dropping Wednesday, September 21, 2022.

[Mr. R0b0t]

3rd episode thread is locked, but I watched all three B2B and enjoyed the hell out of it!  Looking forward to what's next!

[Fool to cry]

No offense but f@#k Timm. He had it coming.

[Msample]

Was the guy with Andor's adoptive mother who rescued him from the mining planet a younger Saw Guerrera ? He had the same breathing mask around his neck ?

[Tachi Rocinante]

Another good episode. 

• So much for my theory that Bix was one of the tribal girls.
• I know it's a different planet, but I was expecting a brief cameo from Cal Kestis in coveralls.
• It sucks that we know how this eventually ends, but it should be interesting getting there.

[ybrik]

Really liking the series so far. Agree with the fuck Timm sentiment though I can sort of understand. I would be afraid of losing someone like Bix too but not sure if I would rat a person out like that. So even though it is a galaxy far far away, we still have white people going off to distance lands and ‘adopting’ minority children. 

[WritinMan]

Damn, I'm really enjoying this show so far. Really a different tone from the other TV shows.

[formerlyfreedom]

I'm hooked after three episodes. Fiona Shaw is incredible, especially since my primary exposure to her was as Harry Potter's reluctant aunt - just a beautiful performance, I hope we see more of her. And was that Saw Gerrera? And Timm, that was a fitting end, you eejit - you put the wheels in motion, man. What I'm seeing is some good story telling, and I'm always on board for that.

Also, to wade into the shallow end of the pool...DAMN YO. Diego Luna is easy on the eyes! You can just leave me here for a few minutes, thank you... :)

[dwmarch]

One of the corporate cops said "shit" near the end, IIRC that's the first time anyone in Star Wars has dropped that particular cuss. Unless Lucas edited it into the original trilogy in one of the many Special Editions.
Vader: Luke, I am your father!
Luke: Aw, shit...

Or maybe it was in The Phantom Menace.
Mace Windu: this kid can't train to be a Jedi apprentice, he's too old.
Anakin: that's some bullshit!
Mace Windu: listen up little muthaf-

I loved the music at the end of this episode. I don't normally notice the background music in a TV show but that closing music was awesome.

Edited September 24, 2022 by dwmarch

[WritinMan]

Also, I really liked the warehouse that was pretty much a giant death trap. Great place for a meeting!

[thuganomics85]

As expected, Luthen Rael (Stellan Skarsgard) was no mere buyer but seems to be some kind of recruiter for the soon to be Rebel Alliance, and he was less interested in the device Cassian stole, but how Cassian was able to pull it off.  Definitely think it's accurate that Cassian was basically able to infiltrate the Empire just by stealing a suit and acting like he belongs, because the Empire has certainly been all about ignoring what's right in front of them, heh.  Granted, I doubt Cassian is going to automatically be "Team Rebel Alliance" at first, but this is certainly a better option than to get arrested by the corpo goons!

Timm's fate was certainly a fitting end for a daft, jealous snitch like him.  Curious to see if we will see Bix again, since I imagine this will change her path course going forward.  Certainly wouldn't mind seeing Adria Arjona again!

Do not envy Korn and him having to explain to his superior (s) how all his actions did was just get more of their men killed!

Hopefully we are done with the flashbacks, although it was interesting seeing how Cassian ended up being raised by Fiona Shaw's character.

Interesting start!  Curious to see where this show goes next!

[absnow54]

5 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

As expected, Luthen Rael (Stellan Skarsgard) was no mere buyer but seems to be some kind of recruiter for the soon to be Rebel Alliance, and he was less interested in the device Cassian stole, but how Cassian was able to pull it off.

Always trying to find his next Good Will Hunting!

18 hours ago, Msample said:

Was the guy with Andor's adoptive mother who rescued him from the mining planet a younger Saw Guerrera ? He had the same breathing mask around his neck ?

No, he was credited as Clem Andor, and I'm assuming he was the father Luthen was referring to, when he mentioned he was hanged in the town square. 

11 hours ago, ybrik said:

So even though it is a galaxy far far away, we still have white people going off to distance lands and ‘adopting’ minority children. 

That was a somewhat complex twist on Cassian searching for his lost sister, since it didn't seem like the planet was under impending threat, only that the Republic was after the ship. They could have just dropped Cassian off in a bush somewhere far enough away from the crash site to let him sleep it off and then head back to his village. I'm interested to see how Cassian's relationship with Maarva develops. Does she take him back to find his sister, when she realizes he has a family?

Also, really interested to see who Maarva is affiliated with, since she's trying to evade the Republic (the "good" guys, with all of our heroes during the Clone Wars.) Is she aligned with the Separatists? Or another movement? Dang, if we're getting flashbacks, they could finally work in the early talks between Padme, Bail Organa, and Mon Mothma that they cut from Episode III!

[joanne3482]

I can't wait to see what happens to the leader who was supposed to create an accident now that a governmental incident has occurred on Fennix.

2 hours ago, absnow54 said:

That was a somewhat complex twist on Cassian searching for his lost sister, since it didn't seem like the planet was under impending threat, only that the Republic was after the ship. They could have just dropped Cassian off in a bush somewhere far enough away from the crash site to let him sleep it off and then head back to his village. I'm interested to see how Cassian's relationship with Maarva develops. Does she take him back to find his sister, when she realizes he has a family?

They killed an imperial soldier (officer?). That's why she snagged him. I'm honestly assuming that the rest of the villagers were killed. 

I also wonder what happens when the tapping stops. They haven't shown that yet, did they? I kind of can't wait. Assuming that something actually happens and it wasn't Maarva's brave face.  

[magdalene]

Excellent 3rd episode with the first 2 really paying off here.  First class writing, directing, acting and sets. Even the villains are fleshed out.  And yet I have seen lots of " Oh, this is so slow" and "it's not real Star Wars". What an awful fandom. They don't deserve to get anything good.

[angora]

Loved it! I really appreciate that, even though it doesn't seem like the people on Ferrix are capital-R Rebels, they're still fighting back in their own way. Some of them were specifically people who care about Cassian and were trying to help him avoid capture, but once a few of them started banging on the metal, a ton of folks joined in, little ways to show that Pre-Mor/the Empire doesn't own them. "The Rebel Alliance" doesn't spring up on day one of resistance against the Empire--things take time to foment and build, and all along, there's a range of people either resisting or complying to different degrees.

Oh man, I adored Cassian's scenes with Stellan Skarsgard's character (Luthen.) So much distrust and dancing around each other. I like that Luthen was there for Cassian's "talents" and not just the box. That speech from the trailers--"It's easy to steal from the Empire..."--was so great. You could feel Cassian's anger, Luthen recognizing the opportunity, and the careful balancing act he had to do to convince the wary Cassian to actually go with him.

Diego Luna is just fantastic here. I love that this Cassian is so different from the one we meet in Rogue One, yet we can still see these little glimmers of the man he'll become. The flashbacks were also well-incorporated in this episode, woven in nicely at resonant moments more so than just, "And here's a little bit of backstory!" Maarva obviously cares for him, but it must have been devastating to wake up on that ship and realize he'd been taken away from everyone he knew, without Maarva being able to explain why she did it or Cassian being able to tell her his sister was still there.

[Ilovepie]

5 hours ago, angora said:

The flashbacks were also well-incorporated in this episode, woven in nicely at resonant moments more so than just, "And here's a little bit of backstory!" Maarva obviously cares for him, but it must have been devastating to wake up on that ship and realize he'd been taken away from everyone he knew, without Maarva being able to explain why she did it or Cassian being able to tell her his sister was still there.

I loved the back and forth between young Cassian and current Cassian leaving on a ship, but current Cassian is leaving with eyes wide open and young Cassian was basically kidnapped.

On 9/21/2022 at 11:48 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Do not envy Korn and him having to explain to his superior (s) how all his actions did was just get more of their men killed!

His face looked like he was thinking about just this when he was standing in the street. I would love to see him get his comeuppance - what a little shit!

Also because it can't be said enough: fuck Timm. Bix was too good for him, and he knew it, but what an asshole.

[sashabear21]

I’m really enjoying the show so far. It’s interesting to see the day to day people trying to live their lives under the Empire. Not sorry to see Timm go, and it was pretty clear where that was headed since he was the only character, and this includes B2EMO, not eye-banging Diego Luna at some point. How many “mining accidents” on planets did the Empire lay claim to? Because if memory serves they claimed the same thing happened on Jedha City after the events of Rogue One. Did they not have some other well thought out excuses?  Curious what killed the clones on the ship that crashed on Kenari. Also curious what’s up with private security man who takes his job just a little too seriously. He’s like a mall cop that has a personal vendetta against someone who lifted a pair of socks from the sale rack at Old Navy. 

[AimingforYoko]

On 9/22/2022 at 11:22 AM, joanne3482 said:

They killed an imperial soldier (officer?).

Republic officer, the Kenari stuff was pre-Empire.

[paigow]

On 9/22/2022 at 2:48 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Do not envy Korn 

 closed captioning showed Karn

[wanderingstar]

On 9/23/2022 at 5:15 PM, Ilovepie said:

I loved the back and forth between young Cassian and current Cassian leaving on a ship, but current Cassian is leaving with eyes wide open and young Cassian was basically kidnapped.

I'm not usually a big fan of that type of back and forth, but I loved it here. 

Timm was clearly one of those people who believes that the cops will only target "bad people." What other explanation is there for him running at them like that? Really sucks that Bix had to watch him be gunned down.

The Cassian/Luthen scenes were easily my favorite part of the episode (and there was a lot to love about the episode as a whole). Luthen gave an effective recruitment pitch ("Don't you wanna fight these bastards for real") and we got some pew-pews! Also, I need to find a way to incorporate "Build your exit on the way in" into my lexicon. 

Edited September 24, 2022 by Gillian Rosh

[paigow]

1 hour ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Also, I need to find a way to to incorporate "Build your exit on the way in" into my lexicon. 

Alternatively, as Gilroy / Bourne  would say: Always be catching the sightlines and looking for the exit

[Shanna Marie]

On 9/23/2022 at 4:15 PM, Ilovepie said:

His face looked like he was thinking about just this when he was standing in the street. I would love to see him get his comeuppance - what a little shit!

As I said on the episode one thread, I want to see him taken down even more than I wanted to see Vader or the Emperor defeated. I want to see him having to explain things to his boss when his boss gets back. It's not even just because he's after our main character. I had to agree with his boss. Those guys were screwups who were in a place that wasn't supposed to exist, drinking something that wasn't supposed to be there, doing things they weren't supposed to be doing. Investigating their deaths and finding their killer was only going to open up a door to all kinds of problems. But Inspector Springbutt had to go on his crusade. And now it's all going to hit the fan when he has to explain the loss of life and equipment, the property damage, the deaths and injuries of civilians, and everything else, and then that inquiry is just going to expose all the other stuff the boss was trying to keep quiet. Avenging the deaths of two screwups who got themselves killed by pushing around the wrong person isn't worth all that.

But as much of a Les Mis fangirl as I am, I don't really want to see another Javert and Valjean story unless someone's singing, and we just did that in the Kenobi series, so I hope all this was just to set things in motion and force Andor to join the rebellion instead of the whole series being Space Javert hunting down Andor.

[paigow]

6 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

Republic officer, the Kenari stuff was pre-Empire.

Hah... reading too quickly...thought I saw Kenobi...

[call me ishmael]

I, too, didn’t shed a tear for Timm.  But it all seemed a bit pat to me.  Everyone was running away from the private security guys.  Why did they seize Bix?  They had no way of knowing she was connected to Andor.  It seemed less reasonable in narrative terms than a plot means to keep her from warning Andor and also to get Timm killed.  
 

I didn’t get the sense that young Cassian was particularly upset on the ship out.  He seems to leave a lot of messes and people behind.

20 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

But as much of a Les Mis fangirl as I am, I don't really want to see another Javert and Valjean story unless someone's singing, and we just did that in the Kenobi series, so I hope all this was just to set things in motion and force Andor to join the rebellion instead of the whole series being Space Javert hunting down Andor

That is certainly a worry.  On the one hand, he should get canned for causing exactly the disaster he was warned against.  On the other did that look like a face engaged in self-reflection or rage.  Even the fact that Andor didn’t kill him should have told him something.  But I doubt it did.

[Ottis]

Hey, stuff happened! The first 15 minutes I thought the music was overly dramatic for what was happening on the screen. It did set a mood, though, that paid off in the end.

I’m not sure what Timm thought he was doing, haltingly charging the imperials. He had no chance to make a difference, and also, it wasn’t a sudden emotional attack, so it was weird.

They seized Bix because, as the one Imperial noted, she seemed suspicious for some reason vs. just running home. Overly worried about something? He said her hands were shaking. 

That was a decent episode. 
 

[Shanna Marie]

47 minutes ago, call me ishmael said:

On the one hand, he should get canned for causing exactly the disaster he was warned against.  On the other did that look like a face engaged in self-reflection or rage.  Even the fact that Andor didn’t kill him should have told him something.  But I doubt it did.

I saw a commentary somewhere that theorized that he was being set up to turn to the Rebellion, himself, that people who are that idealistic and devoted to following the rules can switch sides if they realize that their idealism and devotion was misplaced, so maybe his quest for Andor might lead to him seeing more about how the Empire works, and he'll turn that idealism into devotion to the Rebellion. I'm not so sure. That kind of self-righteousness tends not to be very reflective, and his whole thing is blindly following the letter of the law, to the point of overkill. Besides, Kenobi also did that kind of villain about-face with their Javert. I would be okay with this just being a way to get Andor to join the Rebels since he had no choice, and then Inspector Springbutt has to go home and face his boss.

[MissLucas]

3 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I saw a commentary somewhere that theorized that he was being set up to turn to the Rebellion, himself, that people who are that idealistic and devoted to following the rules can switch sides if they realize that their idealism and devotion was misplaced, so maybe his quest for Andor might lead to him seeing more about how the Empire works, and he'll turn that idealism into devotion to the Rebellion. I'm not so sure. 

Well, he already looks distractingly like Kallus (as long as the hair does not get tousled that is).

Edited September 25, 2022 by MissLucas

[paigow]

On 9/22/2022 at 9:26 AM, absnow54 said:

Always trying to find his next Good Will Hunting!

Cassian, you want to fight these bastards for real?  Steal something they value... like The Fields Medal

[Ilovepie]

23 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I saw a commentary somewhere that theorized that he was being set up to turn to the Rebellion, himself, that people who are that idealistic and devoted to following the rules can switch sides if they realize that their idealism and devotion was misplaced, so maybe his quest for Andor might lead to him seeing more about how the Empire works, and he'll turn that idealism into devotion to the Rebellion. I'm not so sure. That kind of self-righteousness tends not to be very reflective, and his whole thing is blindly following the letter of the law, to the point of overkill. Besides, Kenobi also did that kind of villain about-face with their Javert. I would be okay with this just being a way to get Andor to join the Rebels since he had no choice, and then Inspector Springbutt has to go home and face his boss.

I just don't see this guy joining the rebellion - he is the ultimate rule follower. He is Dolores Umbridge. I don't know where he ultimately fits in the Empire, but it's definitely on the Empire side. Not reflective indeed! His superior told him to leave it alone, but you could see the simmering resentment there before he even left. He already had his mind made up and the disrespect was barely checked. I feel like it's going to be a minute before he has his comeuppance though, and I hope they just let him be the evil asshole he already is - I don't need a redemption plot for him like Reva.

[Spartan Girl]

This is pretty good so far! Diego Luna and Fiona Shaw are killing it.

[Bill1978]

From the moment the 'bad guys' arrived on the planet everything got tense and I oved it. I even forgot that Cassian is fine because he is in Rogue One. From the eeriness of the locals banging on the metal, to the empty streets and then wondering how the 'good guys' would get their way out of the situation was brilliant. And the score just added to it. One of the best tense moments of television for 2022 that I've seen.

Seems I'm in the minority of being sad that Timm was ultimately killed for his betrayal, but I guess that's standard for Star Wars. Only bad guys are allowed a true redemption arc. Speaking of which...I feel like Karn is being set up to reevaluate his life. There was a look on his face when the fake escape vehicle blew up that made me think he is going to go away and rethink his life and if he has chosen the right path. Of course, the look could also be interpreted as the start of making him into a vengeful psychopath.

[tennisgurl]

I am really liking this so far. The cool thing about Star Wars is that its such a big universe that you can do almost anything in it, varying in tone and story, hopefully we see more of that creativity going forward. I love Diego Luna and Fiona Shaw, they're already doing a great job. 

I guess its too bad that Timm never got a chance to make up for what he did, it still feels like he got smacked by the karma stick. I feel bad for Bix though, having to see him get shot.

Edited September 28, 2022 by tennisgurl

[call me ishmael]

11 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

Seems I'm in the minority of being sad that Timm was ultimately killed for his betrayal, but I guess that's standard for Star Wars. Only bad guys are allowed a true redemption arc. Speaking of which...I feel like Karn is being set up to reevaluate his life. There was a look on his face when the fake escape vehicle blew up that made me think he is going to go away and rethink his life and if he has chosen the right path. Of course, the look could also be interpreted as the start of making him into a vengeful psychopath.

I think the problem is that if Timm had loved once Bix and everyone knew what would they do with him.  He clearly couldn’t stay there where everyone knew he ratted out Cassian.  He wasn’t wrong, i think, in believing that Bix still had feelings for Andor so she wasn’t going to forgive him.  And if she was already anti-imperial that would make it worse.  So would Timm go somewhere else and be shoehorned back into the plot?  Especially since in a sort of way this whole show is about Andor’s redemption arc.

[tkc]

On 9/24/2022 at 10:26 AM, paigow said:

 closed captioning showed Karn

[Kel Varnsen]

On 9/29/2022 at 1:26 AM, tkc said:

I don't think so, @tkc.

Business really picked up in this episode and I liked it. I loved Cassian's speech about stealing the box. At my old job I got to go to a lot of places I wouldn't have access too, and it was always amazing how if you had a clipboard and a look on your face like you were actually doing something, you would almost never get questioned.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Kel Varnsen

[paigow]

3 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

At my old job I got to go to a lot of places I wouldn't have access too, and it was always amazing how if you had a clipboard and a look on your face like you were actually doing something, you would almost never get questioned.

Were you working for this guy?

[CailynA]

Am I the only one that thinks the actor playing Karn, Kyle Soller (I had to check imdb) looks like a young Henry Thomas?

[QuantumMechanic]

On 11/9/2022 at 9:44 PM, CailynA said:

Am I the only one that thinks the actor playing Karn, Kyle Soller (I had to check imdb) looks like a young Henry Thomas?

I think he looks more like a young Kyle McLachlan. Maybe he’ll get to eat some imperial cherry pie…

[andromeda331]

23 hours ago, QuantumMechanic said:

I think he looks more like a young Kyle McLachlan. Maybe he’ll get to eat some imperial cherry pie…

That's who he reminds me of.

[Camera One]

Everything came to a head in this episode, so the whole thing feels a little like a movie.  It was pretty tense, and I liked the subtle resistance of the people in the city.  

Cassian's carelessness with the box in the warehouse was a little frustrating.  Why leave it to chat on the other side?  

The backstory made me more interested in Maeve.  

Luthen's scenes with Cassian were really good.  It was cool to see him give pointers to the younger man.  

The main contrived part was how they didn't kill the annoying deputy.  Cassian didn't hesitate in killing that thug in the first episode so I don't see why he would spare this guy other than plot armour.

I hope the deputy won't retaliate by harming Maeve or Bix to get Cassian to give himself up.

I would have preferred to see Timm reap what he sowed for a little longer.  

[Shanna Marie]

I've started rewatching, and after the first arc, it struck me how much Cassian Andor has in common with Han Solo, even though they're very different characters. Both went from operating on the shady side of the law to working with the rebellion. Both ended up in the Imperial military not entirely voluntarily as teenagers, and both deserted. Both seem to have a habit of owing people money, and both tend to try to talk their way out of situations, but if that fails, both of them shoot first. I think the main difference is that Han's persona is all about swagger, while Cassian is a lot quieter. I'm not sure if he's doing it on purpose, but he does seem to get to people through vulnerability, almost the Puss in Boots (from the Shrek films) big eyes. People want to take care of him and help him. If they'd ever met, I wonder if they would have gotten along or if they'd have hated each other.

By the way, I think we need some kind of big picture thread for this forum. This is the kind of series that needs some discussion of all the episodes and the context of the greater Star Wars universe. There's a "universe" thread in all the other Star Wars series forums. I can't think of a clever name for one, though.

[Sarah 103]

On 11/7/2023 at 4:31 PM, Shanna Marie said:

 If they'd ever met, I wonder if they would have gotten along or if they'd have hated each other.

My guess-Han and Andor would have initially hated each other or at least been incredibly wary of each other, but I could see something happening that would cause them to become friends. 

[Shanna Marie]

On 3/21/2024 at 11:12 PM, Sarah 103 said:

My guess-Han and Andor would have initially hated each other or at least been incredibly wary of each other, but I could see something happening that would cause them to become friends. 

Depending on when they met, I could see Andor considering Han to be a frivolous lightweight, since Han goes for a glib act and tries to act like he doesn't care. Even at his worst, I don't think Andor ever tried to act like he didn't care about people. Han would tell Andor to lighten up. Andor is more of a planner while Han makes it up as he goes, so that would be a clash. But they're both highly competent and would come to respect each other for that.

[Sarah 103]

19 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Depending on when they met, I could see Andor considering Han to be a frivolous lightweight, since Han goes for a glib act and tries to act like he doesn't care. Even at his worst, I don't think Andor ever tried to act like he didn't care about people. Han would tell Andor to lighten up. Andor is more of a planner while Han makes it up as he goes, so that would be a clash. But they're both highly competent and would come to respect each other for that.

I think how they react to each other is completely and totally dependent on timeline. If it's set closer to Solo, I can picture a "are they after me or after you" scenario and reluctantly trusting each other/becoming friends out of necessity. Both are often on the wrong side of the law, and neither one is involved in the rebellion yet. I'm picturing something like "we're both in trouble, the only way out is to work together, even if we don't get along or like each other," and over the course of the adventure they grow to respect each other if not becoming friends.

If they met closer to Andor, then I think what you described is more accurate and what would have happened.