S01.E02: The Rogue Prince

[yellowfred]

3 hours ago, steelyis said:

I can't blame Alicent for any of this. She really had no choice. Her father commands, she obeys, the end. Even Cersei couldn't defy Tywin, and she was a queen. And I don't think Alicent had leeway to warn Rhaenyra. Otto wouldn't want her to give away the game to someone who could put Viserys on his guard.

Totally agree.  I would also just add that, if the King decides he wants to marry her, it's not the sort of thing that she would be in a position to just turn down.  I'm not saying that she'd want to (other than the general, cuticle-picking anxiety, I don't know that we've really had a serious look at what's going on in her mind), but I can't imagine a scenario where she'd be able to turn down that proposal without some pretty dire consequences.

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, gingerella said:

This over abundance of costuming/sets/music, etc. being recycled from GoT just feels cheap to me, and perplexing given they supposedly had like $20 million per episode? What on earth did they spend the money on, because it wasn't on new sets, costumes, or musical scores.

What do you mean by sets being recycled? The series is set in many of the same key locations as GOT, obviously the Red Keep and Dragonstone are going to look architecturally similar to how they looked in the later series.

In any case, these aren't literally the same sets, they're new sets built to resemble the old ones.

1 hour ago, Constantinople said:

When the heir to the throne and the King's only child suggested she could go fight in the Stepstones, Otto shut that down immediately. Dragons aren't invulnerable nor are their riders. Corlys Velaryon, on the other hand, seemed remarkably chill about Rhaenyra risking her life for his benefit.

He wants to go fight as well, it's not like he's not eager to take risks in this scenario. It's far from a situation that only benefits him, either.

1 hour ago, Constantinople said:

Everyone was telling Viserys to remarry. When Grand Maester Mellos recommended Laena Velaryon and explained why, Otto said, "The Grand Maester's reasoning is sound". For that matter Alicent said it would be "A very strong match" and she was sure that Laena was "good and kind" and would enjoy Viserys's company.

He then went on to try to subtly needle him out of accepting the offer, under the guise of concern for his emotional state.

1 hour ago, Constantinople said:

When Daemon pulled his childish stunt on Dragonstone, Otto insisted the king remain safe in King's Landing while Otto risked his life to retrieve the dragon's egg. When Rhaenyra appeared, Otto's immediate concern was for her safety.

And where was Corlys "Lives Next Door to Dragonstone" Velaryon? Nowhere to be seen.

I don't really see the comparison here. Corlys was presumably in the capital still. He wasn't asked to go on that mission.

[Meredith Quill]

Sorry but if I were Alicent and wholly didn't want what my father wanted, i.e. to marry my bff's father who is the king and the friend betrayal ramifications that go along with that, then I wouldn't have behaved so agreeably toward him for starters. I would, in fact, be as disagreeable as courtesy permitted anytime I was in his presence, a la not speaking beyond having to provide an answer, being sullen, deffo not being kind and thoughtful and generally make myself (I won't say unpleasant but) at least, not pleasant, company...you get the idea.

If Alicent had been utterly against the idea, she could have easily made him not warm to her without her father's knowledge of how she'd achieved it. So I don't accept that Alicent was a mere pawn in her father's machinations, even if there was some reluctance, she knew what she was doing and still did it.

[Meredith Quill]

14 minutes ago, SeanC said:

He then went on to try to subtly needle him out of accepting the offer, under the guise of concern for his emotional state.

THIS.

His "I don't envy you having to remarry for duty" remark, was designed to make Viserys think of a possible match who he'd already formed some kind of emotional attachment to; ergo Otto's daughter, Alicent vs only remarrying out of duty alone which is indeed a much more bitter pill to swallow and Otto handled it with magnificent underhandedness.

Otto completely manipulated Viserys there and the poor, oblivious nice guy had not one single clue. If Otto were interested in what's best for the realm and his first duty to his king, he would have wanted Viserys to marry Lady Leana the same as all of the other members of the Small Council counselled he do. But no, what matters most to Otto is furthering his own agenda, the realm be damned.

[steelyis]

2 hours ago, SilverStormm said:

Sorry but if I were Alicent and wholly didn't want what my father wanted, i.e. to marry my bff's father who is the king and the friend betrayal ramifications that go along with that, then I wouldn't have behaved so agreeably toward him for starters. I would, in fact, be as disagreeable as courtesy permitted anytime I was in his presence, a la not speaking beyond having to provide an answer, being sullen, deffo not being kind and thoughtful and generally make myself (I won't say unpleasant but) at least, not pleasant, company...you get the idea.

If Alicent had been utterly against the idea, she could have easily made him not warm to her without her father's knowledge of how she'd achieved it. So I don't accept that Alicent was a mere pawn in her father's machinations, even if there was some reluctance, she knew what she was doing and still did it.

You wouldn't be you if you were born into ASoIaF. It would never occur to you to tell your father no, or ruin his plans with technicalities. And unless your father is Ned Stark, or Selwyn Tarth, you won't be getting a lot of latitude to live your life how you want. You will be your father's then your husband's property, and you will do as they say, when they say, or suffer the consequences if you fail to do so. Which can range from being stripped of your titles, the protection of your family, and forced to become a septa or silent sister. Or you can be thrown onto the street, penniless, in a world that treats poor peasant women much worse than it treats noble born women.

Mysaria wasn't kidding around when she described how hard it is for a woman to survive without the protection of powerful men.

Edited August 29, 2022 by steelyis
Missing a word

[Lady S.]

1 hour ago, gingerella said:

The convo between Rhaenyra and Rhaenys (damn those names get confusing) reminded me of Cersei's 'fireside chats' with Sansa. Coming across as kindly...at first...then menacing as the conversation continued.

I was thinking a different Lannister/Stark pairing: Tyrion/Jon in s1. Tyrion told Jon truths he didn't want to hear about being a bastard and the Night's Watch, with some wry bitterness about the subjects and what he thought he and Jon had in common. Rhaenys did say she wished it could be so when Rhaenyra naively and kind of arrogantly said she'd make a whole new order when she was Queen.

3 minutes ago, SilverStormm said:

His "I don't envy you having to remarry for duty" remark, was designed to make Viserys think of a possible match who he'd already formed an emotional attachment to; ergo Otto's daughter, Alicent. Otto completely manipulated Viserys there and the poor, oblivious nice guy had not one single clue.

Yeah, that was the cleverness of his plot, he made Viserys think choosing Alicent was his own idea because he knew her and she "enjoyed his company".  Given Viserys didn't really want to re-marry, I wonder if his proposal to Alicent was just a way to refuse Corly as his choosing Rhaenyra as heir was provoked by his anger at Daemon. In which case Corlys' more open and blunt approach only helped Otto.

In other matters, Otto only seems to shoot himself in the foot. We're told in the pilot that making Daemon commander of the goldcloaks was his own idea, and only later did he realize he'd given the guy a private army. He was the one who first suggested making Rhaenyra heir, the very same night he first sent Alicent to woo Viserys. Once Alicent is Queen, he'll surely rue Rhaenyra's position as she'll resent Alicent's. And in this ep, he went to face Daemon on his own and somehow just clean forgot the dude has a dragon?!

Manipulating the king and ordering his daughter around is definitely his strong suit.

Updated for ep 1.02

Btw, I'm glad we've all decided to call that rogue prince "Matt Daemon".

[Constantinople]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

He wants to go fight as well, it's not like he's not eager to take risks in this scenario

That's fine if Corlys wants to go get himself killed. He has no business endorsing Rhaenyra's plan to send her, the heir to the throne and Viserys's only living child, into a war zone. And in the same episode where he's pimping out his 12 year old daughter to the king.

If Otto advocated sending Rhaenyra to war while trying to marry his daughter to the King, people would say Otto was trying to serve Crab Targaryen at the obligatory victory clambake.

[Constantinople]

1 hour ago, SilverStormm said:

Otto completely manipulated Viserys there and the poor, oblivious nice guy had not one single clue.

Viserys specifically asked Lyonel Strong in a one-on-one conversation for his unencumbered opinion, i.e. the opinion of someone who wasn't looking to become his father-in-law.

[LoveLeigh]

I don't read the books so I have no idea what's in the books but if House of the Dragon does follow the books why does George R. R. Martin stick so much pedophilia into this books? It is nauseating when some old geezer chooses a 15 year old bride. And Laena looks 8 years old. 

I remember in GOT when some creep was in a whore house and the madam kept bringing him girls and he kept saying "Too old..." and then when he was bought a girl young enough he had several of them lined up so he could beat them.

This all comes from the mind of George R. R. Martin and I am questioning his personal depravity level. I don't think it is as simple as him wanting to be true historically. 

Here it is: too old

Edited August 29, 2022 by LoveLeigh

[mojoween]

Between Alicent’s ripped cuticles and Viserys’s necrosis, they aren’t going to have a pair of hands between them.

I am having a hard time with Matt Smith, because he sounds, to me, EXACTLY like Iwan Rheon and another Ramsey Bolton is not something I need in my life.

[MrWhyt]

22 minutes ago, LoveLeigh said:

This all comes from the mind of George R. R. Martin and I am questioning his personal depravity level. I don't think it is as simple as him wanting to be true historically. 

depicting something is not the same as endorsing it.

[AntFTW]

2 hours ago, SilverStormm said:

Sorry but if I were Alicent and wholly didn't want what my father wanted, i.e. to marry my bff's father who is the king and the friend betrayal ramifications that go along with that, then I wouldn't have behaved so agreeably toward him for starters. I would, in fact, be as disagreeable as courtesy permitted anytime I was in his presence, a la not speaking beyond having to provide an answer, being sullen, deffo not being kind and thoughtful and generally make myself (I won't say unpleasant but) at least, not pleasant, company...you get the idea.

If Alicent had been utterly against the idea, she could have easily made him not warm to her without her father's knowledge of how she'd achieved it. So I don't accept that Alicent was a mere pawn in her father's machinations, even if there was some reluctance, she knew what she was doing and still did it.

Agreed! For Alicent, I think she understands that is also (possibly) in her best interest. She is a pawn, but she isn't a gullible pawn. She understands that being a "highborn" means she will likely be wedded and bred with some other highborn Lord/future Lord, maybe one she will not like or love at all, and will have no real choice in the matter.

For Alicent, Vicerys isn't the worst man she can be "sold" off to and I think she sees that as a plus, with an added benefit of being Queen. I imagine that Alicent knows Vicerys pretty well and saw how he treated Aemma. Vicerys seems nice and will probably be an actual loving, attentive, and affectionate husband.

[DrSpaceman73]

22 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Well look who was pimping their 12 year old daughter now?

But hey, she wouldn't have to bed Viserys until she turns 14.

Game of thrones feminism. 

[DrSpaceman73]

20 hours ago, Bulldog said:

This made me laugh much more than it should. 

To Vicerys' credit, he did seem repulsed by the idea of marrying a child.  I wonder what it says about the show that for a split second, I thought they might actually go there. 

One thing I'm liking about this show is that it is much more compact (for lack of a better word) than GoT.  I was a huge GoT fan, but must admit that the sprawling cast often made me confused about who was who.  Having a much easier time keeping up with the folks on this show (so far).   

Game of thrones certainly had a large sprawling cast and stories but I think k this so far is too much in the opposite direction. And honestly too dull. This basic story is literally one of the oldest cliches in literature and world history. You can dress it up in dragons and gane of thrones lore but it's still king has no son, trying to find a way to obtain one as an heir. If that's all this amounts to, will be hard to keep up.  They need more somewhere. 

[AryasMum]

20 hours ago, mac123x said:

Margaret Beaufort gave birth to the future Henry VII at the ripe old age of 13.  That garbage happened back then.

Presumably if he'd gone through with it, Viserys would have had a long long long betrothal.  Glad he's marrying someone who's at least post puberty.

At least Margaret’s husband was in his 20’s - not 40s or 50s like Viserys. Even so, Margaret never had another child, even after two more husbands. There is too young. Even for that time. 

[ICantDoThatDave]

This show seems very "paint by numbers" so far.  Like if someone who had watched GoT decided to write a fan-fiction of a prelude.  Everything just seems so... obvious.  Hopefully they surprise me in the future.

[MBayGal]

Dragons are cool and all, but this show really needs some Direwolf puppies!!!

[Stardancer Supreme]

23 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

What was Alicent doing that caused her father to accuse her of mangling herself? I couldn’t see it.  I think she owed her BFF at least a heads up about the impending marriage. What girl wouldn’t want her Dad to marry her best friend? 

Alicent has a nervous tic that has her tearing her fingernails off.  She was shown doing this in Episode 1 at the tourney and again at the meeting this episode.

I thought that Viserys was going to tell Rhaenyra that he wanted to marry Alicent instead of Laena, since they were getting closer. Apparently he told no one until the Small Council Meeting, judging by the looks of everyone around the table.  Viserys just wasn't going to marry that baby, and Corlys should have seen that.  There were no other Velaryon women he could have offered up instead?  But I understood that cementing the families together would have guaranteed that the Sea Snake would continue to do the King's bidding.

Looks like Targaryen men tend to do things against their own interests; what was Daemon hoping to accomplish other than pissing Viserys off?  

Edited August 30, 2022 by Stardancer Supreme

[Jack Shaftoe]

Why did Corlys go on and on about "uniting our houses" when he is already married to a Targaryen princess? As far as marriage alliances go, your houses are already united! If he wants to give his daughter to the king, fair enough, but the way he stated his proposal was super weird to me.

Then in the end he gave a speech on he is so similar to Daemon. Was he being honest or lying his ass off to get Damon on his side? Because I really don't see much similarity between someone who made his fortune with his own efforts and the brother of a king who is only tolerated because he happens to be a prince.

The royal castle must have the least gossipy servants ever if after half a year Rhaenyra still doesn't know that her BFF is visiting her father so often.

The king is so comically inept that it's making me wonder how he has not been dethroned long ago. Even Robert Baratheon was a bona fide Bismarck compared to what we have seen of Viserys so far. Daemon doesn't seem any smarter, turns out that inbreeding is bad, kids! :)

Edited August 30, 2022 by Jack Shaftoe

[rtms77]

18 hours ago, goldilocks said:

Oops! Gotcha. Sorry about that! Constantinople, who you quoted, was talking about Laena, hence my reply. Yes, and the actress is probably older than 15 too. Alicent, I mean (this could get confusing!)

Milley  Alcock (Young Rheanyra) is 22!  Emily Carey (Alicent) is 19. Great acting from both because I really thought they were younger.

[Meredith Quill]

3 hours ago, steelyis said:

You wouldn't be you if you were born into ASoIaF. It would never occur to you to tell your father no, or ruin his plans with technicalities.

It occurred to Arya, it occurred to Yara, it occurred to Brienne, it occured to Lyanna Stark, heck it even occurred to Olenna Tyrell as a young woman not wanting to be wed to her father's choice of husband - to name a few off the top of my head. I wonder what % of daughters featured in the show they amount to? Just because daughters may have had little to no agency, doesn't mean they all behaved like robots doing exactly as they were bid. Where there's a will there's a way.

2 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Viserys specifically asked Lyonel Strong in a one-on-one conversation for his unencumbered opinion, i.e. the opinion of someone who wasn't looking to become his father-in-law.

And Lyonel told him to marry Leana while outlining all the reasons why that would be best for the realm, because Lyonel had no hidden agenda/ulterior motive going on. I don't get your point?

[rtms77]

12 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

What does Lord Coryls think will happen to him if he starts a war with crabfeeder? Does he think being from Valerya will save him. Or is he going to make it seem like Daemon did it his own when he was the only one openly complaining about it. I guess there is a reason we heard nothing of his house 174 years later. 

Money and power that he apparently worked hard to earn and keep. Only to have a weak king do nothing to help him in times of trouble . 

[Lady S.]

42 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

Agreed! For Alicent, I think she understands that is also (possibly) in her best interest. She is a pawn, but she isn't a gullible pawn. She understands that being a "highborn" means she will likely be wedded and bred with some other highborn Lord/future Lord, maybe one she will not like or love at all, and will have no real choice in the matter.

For Alicent, Vicerys isn't the worst man she can be "sold" off to and I think she sees that as a plus, with an added benefit of being Queen. I imagine that Alicent knows Vicerys pretty well and saw how he treated Aemma. Vicerys seems nice and will probably be an actual loving, attentive, and affectionate husband.

Yeah, I don't blame her for going along with her family's plans, as the Catelyns and Margaerys of this world do. But as far as betraying Rhaenyra, I don't agree that she could have said nothing. Viserys would hardly punish her for letting the secret slip, dude gives everyone a slap on the wrist unless they make a tasteless dead baby joke, and it has to be about his dead baby. She could have explained to him why she felt Rhaenyra had a right to know and he would have listened. Or better yet, advise him to tell her himself and not blindside her. One would think he'd know that himself since he knew they were close enough for him to keep asking her how Rhaenyra was feeling, and worry how she would feel about his secret growing closeness with Alicent, yet he thought suddenly making that relationship official would go off without a hitch. The man isn't a total moron, but he does need support when it comes to hard choices and awkward conversations. When Rhaenyra says she knows there are already plots to re-marry her father and make a new heir, Alicent's all "lords' and kings' matters are none of my business, wouldn't know anything about that", then tests out what Rhaenyra really thinks of the prospect of a (nameless) stepmother. When that gets no response, she just encourages Rhaenyra to make the effort with her father, to follow Alicent's example as a dutiful daughter. All of that is her actively choosing Viserys over Rhaenyra, not acting out of fear of Viserys as much as acting to keep her best chances with him. I don't hate her for it, but I don't think she's meant to a 100% victim nor a 100% selfish temptress/ambitious social climber.

4 minutes ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

I thought that Viserys was going to tell Rhaenyra that he wanted to marry Alicent instead of Laena, since they were getting closer. Apparently he told no one until the Small Council Meeting, judging by the looks of everyone around the table. 

I think Otto and Alicent had some warning, since Alicent was the only person there not normally invited to council meetings. There was no other reason for her to be there, which just makes Viserys not telling Rhaenyra the full truth even worse. Again, I don't think the man is that stupid, just a weak-willed coward.

I do also wonder what Otto actually wanted her approach to be with Viserys. I don't think he imagined them playing with toys and talking of grief and history together with no real flirtation. Alicent basically secured that match all by herself because she wasn't comfortable with a more open and purposeful courtship. And I doubt the guy who wasted no time after the first Queen's death before launching his marriage plot would have been any more patient if his own daughter was only 12. A lot of his success is probably just due to already having the full-trust of an easily-manipulated king, a uniquely advantageous position. 

[Constantinople]

3 hours ago, SilverStormm said:

Otto completely manipulated Viserys there and the poor, oblivious nice guy had not one single clue.

2 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Viserys specifically asked Lyonel Strong in a one-on-one conversation for his unencumbered opinion, i.e. the opinion of someone who wasn't looking to become his father-in-law.

7 minutes ago, SilverStormm said:

And Lyonel told him to marry Leana while outlining all the reasons why that would be best for the realm, because Lyonel had no hidden agenda/ulterior motive going on. I don't get your point?

You wrote that Viserys "had not one single clue". That's contradicted by Viserys asking Lyonel Strong for his " unencumbered" opinion. Viserys knows Lyonel Strong is a disinterested party and Corlys and Otto are not.

[Meredith Quill]

Just now, Constantinople said:

You wrote that Viserys "had not one single clue". That's contradicted by Viserys asking Lyonel Strong for his " unencumbered" opinion. Viserys knows Lyonel Strong is a disinterested party and Corlys and Otto are not.

I read that differently you'll no doubt be surprised to hear, lol.

To me, he wanted to obtain the honest opinion of all of his small council before making a final decision and Lyonel was the only one who knew nothing at that point. My remark about Viserys having not one single clue referred to how Otto had manipulated the entire Alicent & Viserys growing close from the first and further, specifically re Otto's statement (paraphrasing) "Dude, having to marry for duty sucks, glad I'm not you, oof", which was clearly designed to strike a chord in Viserys, and it succeeded 100%. 

[hypnotoad]

Quote

Everybody talking about Corlys’ hair… what else would you expect given that he has a 4c Afro texture.  Flowing straight hair would look terrible.  He has dreadlocks and they’re fabulous. Get some perspective..Geez

I have no issue with the dreadlocks but rather the clear lack of quality! In the light, the dreadlocks look horrible and super cheap. Not that anyone's wig looks particularly terrific but I really noticed Corly's in this episode.

I think Alicent is just as in on the king plotting as her father. At least that how it appears to me. I felt like she knew just when to deploy the old 'when my mom died' stuff and Viserys fell for that easily.

I was surprised the theme song is basically the same as GoT - there is something more drum-y about it to my ears. Not sure I enjoy the blood flow though!

I think it's pretty obvious Rhaenyra and Matt/Daemon are heading for some incest. At least it's not twincest.

[LoveLeigh]

2 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

depicting something is not the same as endorsing it.

Why depict it? It is lurid and titillates sick minds. The lack of an endorsement hardly matters.

Edited August 30, 2022 by LoveLeigh
typo

[MBayGal]

7 hours ago, SilverStormm said:

As for her being put in said position by Otto and thereby alleviating her of all accountability; yeah teenage girls are well known to do exactly what their fathers tell them to do with nary a quibble, to the letter and without hesitation; oof, Arya wants a word.

You might want to check in with Sansa.

[Lady Whistleup]

I am just getting caught up on the episodes. I thought episode 2 was much stronger than episode 1. We got more in-depth with the characters and what drives them. 

Re: Alicent and Viserys, yes to modern eyes the marriage is yucky. To people in times past it was just accepted. In ancient Egypt pharoahs were expected to marry their sisters and daugthers. Alicent being young wouldn't be considered icky.

[MrWhyt]

1 hour ago, LoveLeigh said:

Why depict it? It is lurid and titillates sick minds. The lack of an endorsement hardly matters.

why depict murder? why depict theft? why depict a monarchy? why tell a story?

[paigow]

49 minutes ago, MrWhyt said:

why depict murder? why depict theft? why depict a monarchy? why tell a story?

Bro... is this how you got your name??? 😉

[snickers]

8 hours ago, gingerella said:

This over abundance of costuming/sets/music, etc. being recycled from GoT just feels cheap to me, and perplexing given they supposedly had like $20 million per episode? What on earth did they spend the money on, because it wasn't on new sets, costumes, or musical scores.

1. the music is different, certain elements remain the same, but what they are doing is no different than Star Wars, the "theme" is the same, but the music is different

2. why change the sets when they are at the same place? (King's landing)

3 I'm assuming the majority of the budget is going to CGI (dragon's aren't cheap) plus all that CGI in the background

[CletusMusashi]

22 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I don't think it works the same way as bird eggs. Daenerys was presented with dragon eggs on her wedding day to Kal Drogo. They'd apparently been around for some time, I'm not clear on where they even came from. I think they were more or less regarded as fossils. I think they are dormant until some magical fire ritual takes place. Up until then, they're just sort of rocks.

(Hopefully we'll get more info on dragon reproduction in HotD.)

Danaerys hatched her eggs by figuring out how a certain type of magic actually worked. Probably not the standard means of reproduction.

"Hey, Wimelra, how is your egg doing?"

"Not well at all, Bettyras. First I need an extremely inbred blonde human to marry a superhero. And then I need not only their unborn offsrping but also him to die. Because of a witch curse."

"What the- I don't know which curse... maybe explain what the hell you're talking about?"

That... just... doesn't feel like how dracoculture would operate under normal circumstances.

Edited August 30, 2022 by CletusMusashi

[LoveLeigh]

4 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

why depict murder? why depict theft? why depict a monarchy? why tell a story?

CUTIES told a story too. It is just not my cup of tea so let's agree to move on. Thank-you. 

[aghst]

Corlys overplayed his hand.  Otto outplayed him.  Also, he may have groomed his daughter to be available to marry the king for years, it's not some improvisation.

Alicent is suppose to be a contemporary of Raynera but the actress seems to be quite a bit older than Milly Adcock.

King doesn't really want to remarry  but maybe he felt more comfortable with Alicent, who put in the work.

Of course among real kings and queens, things like chemistry and mutual attraction were irrelevant.

If people think Laena was too young, there are princesses who were betrothed so young that they were called the Infanta.

[chediavolo]

On 8/28/2022 at 11:20 PM, dramachick said:

She picks at her fingernails. There was a closeup on her fingers in the scene where she gave Viserys that gift.

As someone who has done the same due to extreme anxiety, I have to wonder what happened in her life that she constantly does this.  Looking at it from modern times, I don’t know how anyone especially a woman lived without crippling anxiety in ancient times ( even made up ones) but I digress….

[Constantinople]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

Alicent is suppose to be a contemporary of Raynera but the actress seems to be quite a bit older than Milly Adcock.

According to Wikipedia, Milly Alcock (Rhaenyra) is 3 years older than Emily Carey (Alicent).

[Constantinople]

Corlys: And I will not have Driftmark beggared while our King idles himself with feasts, and balls, and tourneys.

Daemon: I will speak of my brother as I wish. You will not.

Last week Daemon channeled Inspector Harry Callahan from Dirty Harry.

This week Daemon is Otter & Boone from Animal House with Viserys as Flounder and Corlys as Neidermeyer.

Fun Fact: John Vernon played the Mayor in Dirty Harry and the Dean in Animal House.

But the main point is Viserys doesn't like an in your face hard sell. He's been king for almost 10 years. Corlys should have realized that by now.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Constantinople

[cambridgeguy]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

King doesn't really want to remarry  but maybe he felt more comfortable with Alicent, who put in the work.

There's no maybe about it.  As Daemon is so fond of pointing out, Otto's the second son, so even though he's the Hand there are plenty of more powerful lords (not to mention Houses) out there.  It's possible none of them had daughters who were of marrying age.

Of course, if you want to give Viserys credit then he has to know those powerful lords would back their grandchildren (especially a grandson) over Rhaenyra, so he's making sure he's not giving her a powerful opponent.  I'm not sure he's demonstrated that level of forward thinking though.

[Meredith Quill]

10 hours ago, MBayGal said:

You might want to check in with Sansa.

Sansa is the.worst.example.eVaR. 

Of anything.

[Constantinople]

16 hours ago, steelyis said:

You wouldn't be you if you were born into ASoIaF. It would never occur to you to tell your father no, or ruin his plans with technicalities. And unless your father is Ned Stark, or Selwyn Tarth, you won't be getting a lot of latitude to live your life how you want.

13 hours ago, SilverStormm said:

It occurred to Arya, it occurred to Yara, it occurred to Brienne, it occured to Lyanna Stark, heck it even occurred to Olenna Tyrell as a young woman not wanting to be wed to her father's choice of husband

As @steelyis pointed out, unless your father is Ned Stark or Selwyn Tarth, a daughter won't be given much latitude, so citing Arya and Brienne does not rebut the original point.

And thanks to Joffrey, we don't really know what would have happened with Arya as she and Ned grew older. But someone had to pay Syrio Forrel to teach Arya how to sword fight, and I doubt it was Arya. For that matter it never even occurred to Arya to have a sword made for herself. Needle was a gift from Jon.

As for Yara, it occurred to her because Balon raised her as a son after his eldest two sons were killed in Balon's rebellion and his youngest son Theon was taken as a hostage.

Lyanna Stark. How many tens or hundreds of thousands of people died, including her brother and father, so she could run off with a married man? A married man who just happened to be the Crown Prince and who had his marriage secretly annulled? Yet somehow Alicent is the horrible person.

Olenna Tyrell got out of her engagement to a Targaryen by fucking Luthor Tyrell the night before he was to officially propose to Olenna's sister. But Alicent is the backstabber?

Edited August 30, 2022 by Constantinople
Changed 'Tywin' to 'Theon' after paired pointed out my mistake

[paigow]

3 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

As for Yara, it occurred to her because Balon raised her as a son after his eldest two sons were killed in Balon's rebellion and his youngest son Tywin was taken as a hostage.

[JTMacc99]

Vicerys my man, I feel your pain:

"There are times when I would rather face the Black Dread himself than mine own daughter of 15."

[Constantinople]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

1 hour ago, Constantinople said:

As for Yara, it occurred to her because Balon raised her as a son after his eldest two sons were killed in Balon's rebellion and his youngest son Tywin was taken as a hostage.

Thanks!

[magdalene]

3 hours ago, chediavolo said:

As someone who has done the same due to extreme anxiety, I have to wonder what happened in her life that she constantly does this.  Looking at it from modern times, I don’t know how anyone especially a woman lived without crippling anxiety in ancient times ( even made up ones) but I digress….

Shrugs. Otto is her father, he shaped her in every way, including and especially any anxieties.  She is his creature and I loathe his oily and self-serving self, and by extension her.

[Kate47]

I'm super curious to see what Viserys' official position will be if the fight against the Crabfeeder is successful. He's obviously not sanctioning it, and if it goes awry he can be all "they acted without my orders" but if it goes well, is he going to take credit for it, or reward Daemon and Corlys in some way? I legit can't predict what he'll do.

[Welshman in Ca]

17 minutes ago, magdalene said:

Shrugs. Otto is her father, he shaped her in every way, including and especially any anxieties.  She is his creature and I loathe his oily and self-serving self, and by extension her.

I have a problem with Otto every time he's on screen as I just keep picturing Rhys Ifans in his not so tighty whiteys in Notting Hill. I'm sure I'll get over it eventually.

[Hanahope]

I'm struggling to be interested in this story.  its such a typical royal family power struggle story, just adding dragons. there's really nothing new here.  scheming/betraying family, daughter trying to show she's worthy of running the country, but the menfolk patronize her, wise older woman telling her 'that's her place,' new young 'step mother' that will likely bear the new heir and spare (and the eldest daughter might even have to marry a brother).

and when we know the eventual outcome a few generations hence, its hard to be that interested.  we're hearing about places that have no relevance in the future (aren't even mentioned in passing that i recall).  so i'm just not sure why this exists (other than trying to get more GoT money).

and don't get me started on that awful opening credits that mean,...what?

I will probably eventually watch the rest of the show, but its moved down my queue.

[Welshman in Ca]

1 minute ago, Hanahope said:

and when we know the eventual outcome a few generations hence, its hard to be that interested.  we're hearing about places that have no relevance in the future (aren't even mentioned in passing that i recall).  so i'm just not sure why this exists (other than trying to get more GoT money).

This is where prequels tend to fall down as they are hard to do well and IMO they would have been better off with a sequel of any sort, following the life of just about anyone, even the dragons.

[Silver-hyren]

On 8/29/2022 at 12:09 AM, ybrik said:

It really doesn’t matter at this point but does Rhaenyra have more than friendly feelings for Alicent?

I legit thought they were an actual couple from pretty much scene 1 and was proud of the Targeryens for being so progressive back in the day.  Can I keep shipping them?