S19.E03: Week 3

[Katie111]

I wonder if Gabby could have asked for extra roses?  Does Gabby now have 3 more men than Rachel?  I don’t get the whole “power” thing.  Isn’t it supposed to be mutual?  You want them to be there for the “right reasons” but wouldn’t taking a rose from Rachel when you like Gabby mean they are there for the “wrong reasons”?  If I were Gabby I may have given my rose to one of the men that rejected Rachel because it doesn’t seem like they are just trying to stay in the house for Instagram followers.  Who was that last guy that Gabby gave her rose to anyways? I don’t recall ever seeing him before.  
 

I also don’t get why they had to separate the guys.  They seem to find it offensive if the guys like both of them but they also find it offensive if the guys like only one of them.  Some of these guys have only had one or two conversations with them, maybe they truly haven’t made up their minds. 

[JenE4]

30 minutes ago, Lamb18 said:

Oh, I don't know if I can wait till next week to find out if Rachel gives a rose to Meatball!

Spoiler

Well, they showed Meatball in the preview telling Rachel that someone called them both bitches. I was wondering how the hell he was still there and had to rewind if I missed Gabby giving him a rose after all—until I then saw the end clip.

Edited July 26, 2022 by JenE4
Spoiler tag just in case

[Amy Beth]

The producers really should have watched the recent Joe Millionaire season with 2 Joes. They managed it pretty easily.

[GracieK]

The way I understand it is Rachel ended up with one less guy than Gabby because Gabby didn’t hand out that group date rose. So if she does take Meatball back they both now, in no way that is producer manipulation, have the same number of men 

Edited July 26, 2022 by GracieK

[tinkerbell]

You know what would have helped with not having roses rejected because the guys felt a stronger connection to the other bachelorette?   

NOT CANCELLING THE COCKTAIL PARTY!

[scarlettudor]

  OK, I can't find where to put this question, so I'll just jump in.  Was it Gabby who was told by one of the men that she was 'rough around the edges?'Why?  Rachel was the one who had 3 roses refused right?  Seems like the men don't like either Bachelorette.  But why was one considered so terrible that everyone wanted the other one?  Was it the one who appeared fragile and in need of a therapist?  Whose mother didnt love her?

[Melonie77]

I knew the show was going to run into problems by not planning how to handle a double bachelorette situation better. Tonight's rose ceremony separating them into two groups was a good idea but should have been set up properly.

They could have stuck with group dates with both girls for a couple of weeks allowing everyone to get to know both girls and vice versa. 

I don't think it would then be a problem for the guys to politely start letting the girls know who they were more interested in after the first couple of weeks. 

I don't know why Jesse had to take Rachel's roses away from her when they were rejected. What if some of Gabby's choices ended up saying no because they preferred Rachel? Why couldn't Rachel have the chance to ask someone else?

And how did Rachel end up with only one less guy than Gabby? It looks like Gabby has 9 and Rachel has 8.
I know Rachel started out with 2 men and Gabby only one since Gabby did not give a rose out during the last date - but 3 men rejected Rachel's roses. Rachel should have ended up with 7 men to Gabby's nine if they each had the same number of roses to hand out during the ceremony.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Melonie77
Trying to clarify why the number of men each woman has in her group does not add up.

[Melonie77]

1 hour ago, GracieK said:

The way I understand it is Rachel ended up with one less guy than Gabby because Gabby didn’t hand out that group date rose. So if she does take Meatball back they both now, in no way that is producer manipulation, have the same number of men 

But this should have meant that Rachel ended up with one more guy that Gabby - however 3 guys rejected her roses. It doesn't add up that she has one less guy instead of two.

[CrazyDog]

Gabby needs a good therapist, not a sleazy Bachelorette producer. 

This season is a mess. They should never have done the two leads. Both of them breaking down into insecure tears in week 3 is not fun at all. 

It's likely some editing, but it doesn't seem like Rachel or Gabby have spent much time with any of these guys. At least the group is dwindling.

Shut up Hayden. 

[nlkm9]

10 hours ago, alexa said:

I think Gaby was more uncomfortable and sad which I understand.  They are waiting for dates and she is right there…why not spend time with her?  Deanna was more volatile, so I see it differently.  

Oh deanna was 100% different , im just saying her reaction. I love her with nate, im surprised he didnt jump at thr chance to hang out with her. 

[GracieK]

6 hours ago, Melonie77 said:

But this should have meant that Rachel ended up with one more guy that Gabby - however 3 guys rejected her roses. It doesn't add up that she has one less guy instead of two.

I think she chose first and last so she actually had more picks than Gabby. Not sure why unless the producers knew in advance that some of the guys Rachel was going to choose were going to turn her down. 

[nlkm9]

10 hours ago, Adeejay said:

In all fairness, Deanna only wanted to spend time with Graham, but he wasn't interested.  Had Graham showed the slightest interest, I have a feeling it would have turned out differently,  

She also bitched incrssantly about brad, it was sad, it was obvious brad really hurt her. 

[JenE4]

6 hours ago, scarlettudor said:

  OK, I can't find where to put this question, so I'll just jump in.  Was it Gabby who was told by one of the men that she was 'rough around the edges?'Why?  Rachel was the one who had 3 roses refused right?  Seems like the men don't like either Bachelorette.  But why was one considered so terrible that everyone wanted the other one?  Was it the one who appeared fragile and in need of a therapist?  Whose mother didnt love her?

Yes, Gabby is the one who is “rough around the edges” and “fragile” and “whose mother didn’t love her”—plus a few more devastating superlatives. She may be “unlovable” (by some of these guys’ standards), but she’s hot!   Rachel is beautiful and nice—and if she were the only woman there I’m sure all of the guys would have eagerly accepted her rose—but standing next to the fiery sexpot, she loses some of her appeal. That’s really what it came down to for these guys: Do you want the “girl next door” with whom you can settle down with and have 2.5 kids and the white picket fence, or do you want the one you’re going to tell all of your friends is “crazy” and have a tumultuous relationship but have the best sex of your life with? Now, I want to make it clear that I do not think that these women fit into these two basic disgusting stereotypes of Madonna or whore. But for these guys who have only known them a handful of days and are self-reporting that they’ve barely spoken to one or the other, I think they’re totally putting each women in those stereotypical boxes—I go for the “nice, pretty girl” or I go for the “crazy, sexy girl” (which, again, I want to be clear I think is disgusting, but this is how some young guys think).

Edited July 26, 2022 by JenE4

[nlkm9]

10 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

Right now I am Team Zach for Rachel. I hope he is not a closet jerk.

He is so cute but i thought one of the previews was him having to tell her a secret.

[nlkm9]

8 hours ago, GracieK said:

The way I understand it is Rachel ended up with one less guy than Gabby because Gabby didn’t hand out that group date rose. So if she does take Meatball back they both now, in no way that is producer manipulation, have the same number of men 

So is meatball really having feelings for rachel or does he just want ro stay

[Melonie77]

10 hours ago, Katie111 said:

I wonder if Gabby could have asked for extra roses?  Does Gabby now have 3 more men than Rachel?  I don’t get the whole “power” thing.  Isn’t it supposed to be mutual?  You want them to be there for the “right reasons” but wouldn’t taking a rose from Rachel when you like Gabby mean they are there for the “wrong reasons”?  If I were Gabby I may have given my rose to one of the men that rejected Rachel because it doesn’t seem like they are just trying to stay in the house for Instagram followers.  Who was that last guy that Gabby gave her rose to anyways? I don’t recall ever seeing him before.  
 

I also don’t get why they had to separate the guys.  They seem to find it offensive if the guys like both of them but they also find it offensive if the guys like only one of them.  Some of these guys have only had one or two conversations with them, maybe they truly haven’t made up their minds. 

My sister and I counted the number of men each woman ended up with in their groups and Gabby has nine to Rachel's eight. This doesn't make sense to us (see my other posts).

I think it was necessary to break the guys into groups but they should have spent the first 3 weeks doing group dates only plus the cocktail parties allowing everyone to get to know each other. Why bother with one-on-one dates during the 2nd and third episode when the guys are not sure which of the two girls they are interested in? I think the show was sloppy and didn't put enough thought into how they would handle a double bachelorette situation.

[Starlight925]

Could Rachel have one less guy because she sent that one guy home on their one-on-one?  And Gabby kept both of hers, so Gabby kept 2 from her one-on-ones, and Rachel only kept 1 of her 2?

Of course, guys, we knew some sort of drama would play out here.  That's what this is all about, this 2 bachelorettes.  

I think the producers were hoping for a Gabby vs. Rachel slam down, where they'd both be into the same guy or something.  

But when Rachel broke down and said she realized they had made a mistake asking the guys to choose which girl to go for, as it gives them the power, I was like....aha!  This is where the drama comes.

I also think there will be at least one guy who will change his mind, and like the other girl. I think we even saw that in the previews?  

Imagine giving a guy your rose, you really like him, and he "pledges" to go for you, but later changes his mind.

Add to all of this, poor Gabby.  Wow.  Yes, she needs a great therapist, but her lack of feeling lovable will likely follow her for her entire life.  Thank G-d for grandpa.

[nlkm9]

31 minutes ago, Starlight925 said:

Could Rachel have one less guy because she sent that one guy home on their one-on-one?  And Gabby kept both of hers, so Gabby kept 2 from her one-on-ones, and Rachel only kept 1 of her 2?

Of course, guys, we knew some sort of drama would play out here.  That's what this is all about, this 2 bachelorettes.  

I think the producers were hoping for a Gabby vs. Rachel slam down, where they'd both be into the same guy or something.  

But when Rachel broke down and said she realized they had made a mistake asking the guys to choose which girl to go for, as it gives them the power, I was like....aha!  This is where the drama comes.

I also think there will be at least one guy who will change his mind, and like the other girl. I think we even saw that in the previews?  

Imagine giving a guy your rose, you really like him, and he "pledges" to go for you, but later changes his mind.

Add to all of this, poor Gabby.  Wow.  Yes, she needs a great therapist, but her lack of feeling lovable will likely follow her for her entire life.  Thank G-d for grandpa.

Wasnt that ben higinns thing? Im not loveble? I dont like gabby at all but i feel sorry for her and her mom. If i was erich i would have run for the hills!! Holy crap. And jacob is mean. Ugh.

[TomGirl]

3 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

So is meatball really having feelings for rachel or does he just want ro stay

Gee, I wonder…NOT

[Starlight925]

Meatball:  Uh, no thanks, I like your friend over there.

Friend:  Nope, sorry, no rose.

Meatball:  Uh, hey, I F'd up.  I really do like you.

Rachel:  Oh, Meatball, you are sooooo sweet.  Here's a rose for yooooou!!

Meatball:  Thanks, now let's give me enough camera time to move on to BIP.

[truthaboutluv]

12 hours ago, Katie111 said:

I don’t get the whole “power” thing.  Isn’t it supposed to be mutual?

Ah but you've hit on what has long been one of the biggest issues with this whole franchise's format. It's not mutual because the power is all in the lead's hand who can decide at any point to eliminate someone. And sometimes the contestants, not wanting to be eliminated, worry about being too honest if god forbid they think or feel something the lead may not like or want to hear. 

Which is exactly what happened there, as you mentioned. If the point is for both of these women to have a journey and hopefully find someone they want to be with and wants to be with them, then yes, it's absolutely reasonable for the guys to be honest if their feelings is stronger for one versus the other. 

But honestly, as one who didn't really watch Clayton's season much, other than the Finale and only had a few cursory glances of this season, Rachel is giving me heavy insecure vibes. And so for her, the guys being honest is automatically code for, "I'm not good enough, why don't they want me, etc." versus, "okay, maybe they feel more compatible with Gabby.," 

[Alexander Pope]

1 minute ago, truthaboutluv said:

Ah but you've hit on what has long been one of the biggest issues with this whole franchise's format. It's not mutual because the power is all in the lead's hand who can decide at any point to eliminate someone. And sometimes the contestants, not wanting to be eliminated, worry about being too honest if god forbid they think or feel something the lead may not like or want to hear. 

Which is exactly what happened there, as you mentioned. If the point is for both of these women to have a journey and hopefully find someone they want to be with and wants to be with them, then yes, it's absolutely reasonable for the guys to be honest if their feelings is stronger for one versus the other. 

But honestly, as one who didn't really watch Clayton's season much, other than the Finale and only had a few cursory glances of this season, Rachel is giving me heavy insecure vibes. And so for her, the guys being honest is automatically code for, "I'm not good enough, why don't they want me, etc." versus, "okay, maybe they feel more compatible with Gabby.," 

I totally agree about Rachel's insecurity.  But she and Gaby are insecure in different ways.  Gaby is clearly wounded by her history with her mother and carries a lot of pain and insecurity as a result.  She can be very articulate and insightful about the men's behavior (and I remember too that she was super effective when she told Clayton to take a hike last season) and it's clear that she is in therapy and needs to stay in therapy IMO.  She was really treated horribly by both Jacob and Hayden who confirmed her fear that she was just unlovable.  When Jacob said he would leave if she were the only bachelorette, I was incensed.  Hayden was no better, that patronizing asshole.  

Rachel on the other hand just seems to want to make out.  She has no interest in conversation.  She wants to skip all that and connect instantly (as her dumping of Jordan or whomever he was last week demonstrates).  So in her mind a simple and polite no--which was a heck of a lot more than Gaby got from Hayden or Jacob--is a major diss.  I am giving Rachel side-eye, while I really feel for Gaby.  And I also felt for Erich who had no idea how to handle that avalanche of insecurity and sadness from Gaby on a first date. I hope he is nice enough to understand.

[Hpmec]

This season, more than ever in this franchise, is entirely scripted. Of course Meatball will return. The producers need for the leads to have an equal number of men going into the Europe portion of the show, so they chose Meatball to continue on the journey. 
Just so much ridiculous stuff to snark on this episode. Grandpa turning up only to be subjected to a purification ritual in a makeshift tent and then conveniently introduced to a senior lady bowler out of central casting. She was even wearing a bowling shirt. This, so grandpa could be dumped in order that the one on one date could continue. This week it was Gabby's turn to leave her date sitting awkwardly at the table while she consulted with the production team. And poor Erich just sat there, not knowing quite how to react to the manufactured drama. Rachel's one on one was equally cringeworthy. The bogus red carpet with the actor photographers and then the empty theater. I was embarrassed for them. The embarrassing group date photo shoot barely rates a mention.  It was a new low for this franchise and did nothing to allow the leads to get to know the guys better. Just a waste of time. An equal number of guys let R & G know they weren't interested. How convenient and contrived. The early seasons of this show at least had the pretense that the contestants were genuinely looking to meet someone they could build a relationship with. Now it's all manufactured drama with people looking for their 15 minutes and maybe kickstarting a career as an influencer or show biz hanger on. Fiction played out by non actors. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Hpmec

[Black Knight]

I don't understand why Rachel would offer a rose to Tremayne, the guy who didn't even acknowledge her at all during the introductions. She should have seen that particular rejection coming even if the producers purposely didn't cue the men who already knew they preferred Gabby to tell Rachel so like they cued the men who knew they preferred Rachel to tell Gabby so.

The rose ceremony was ugly, but at least it's done and things should be better now that the women have separate guys. I don't think the show was being sloppy at all or had failed to watch the Joe Millionaire season. They wanted drama. I think they really hoped that this season would follow the lead of another terrible show from years ago I haven't seen referenced yet, A Double Shot at Love with the Ikki Twins. Quick summary:

Spoiler

Two sisters had the same group of people (women were contestants too) to date, just like this Bachelorette season started out. But they never ever split the group and forced people to choose between them. There were contestants who expressed a clear preference for one or the other, but not all did. Naturally, because "reality" TV, there was one guy they both really liked who did not express a preference, and they made him part of their F2 along with a woman who was clear about which twin she wanted to be with. At whatever the show was calling the final ceremony, the woman was rejected by the twin she wanted, while the other twin was rejected by the guy, who then picked her sister. You can imagine what the aftershow was like: One twin alone and humiliated, the other twin still  insecure about her new boyfriend having dated her sister and not making a preference clear until the very end.

I think producers hoped for a mess like that, Rachel and Gabby competing for the same man. The women wisely shut it down by dividing the pool up early. Where they erred was in trusting the producers' input on setting up the rose ceremony this way (why they listen to the producers about anything, I don't get, because the producers are always going to go for drama and by this point Rachel and Gabby should know that). All that needed to be done was have the guys split themselves up into two groups in advance and then have the women come in and offer roses to the ones in their own groups that they wanted to keep. (If the numbers when the men divided themselves up were a little uneven, the producers could have easily gotten the wrong-reasons dudes who just want camera time and to be on BiP or be the next Bachelor to switch around as needed - like they obviously just did right now with Meatball.) I'm sure that was an option that occurred to the producers, but they didn't suggest it to the women because then there wouldn't be the drama that happened.

[nlkm9]

3 hours ago, Alexander Pope said:

I totally agree about Rachel's insecurity.  But she and Gaby are insecure in different ways.  Gaby is clearly wounded by her history with her mother and carries a lot of pain and insecurity as a result.  She can be very articulate and insightful about the men's behavior (and I remember too that she was super effective when she told Clayton to take a hike last season) and it's clear that she is in therapy and needs to stay in therapy IMO.  She was really treated horribly by both Jacob and Hayden who confirmed her fear that she was just unlovable.  When Jacob said he would leave if she were the only bachelorette, I was incensed.  Hayden was no better, that patronizing asshole.  

Rachel on the other hand just seems to want to make out.  She has no interest in conversation.  She wants to skip all that and connect instantly (as her dumping of Jordan or whomever he was last week demonstrates).  So in her mind a simple and polite no--which was a heck of a lot more than Gaby got from Hayden or Jacob--is a major diss.  I am giving Rachel side-eye, while I really feel for Gaby.  And I also felt for Erich who had no idea how to handle that avalanche of insecurity and sadness from Gaby on a first date. I hope he is nice enough to understand.

Who was that guy she was makimg out on the couch with? It was a little crazy!!

2 hours ago, Black Knight said:

I don't understand why Rachel would offer a rose to Tremayne, the guy who didn't even acknowledge her at all during the introductions. She should have seen that particular rejection coming even if the producers purposely didn't cue the men who already knew they preferred Gabby to tell Rachel so like they cued the men who knew they preferred Rachel to tell Gabby so.

The rose ceremony was ugly, but at least it's done and things should be better now that the women have separate guys. I don't think the show was being sloppy at all or had failed to watch the Joe Millionaire season. They wanted drama. I think they really hoped that this season would follow the lead of another terrible show from years ago I haven't seen referenced yet, A Double Shot at Love with the Ikki Twins. Quick summary:

  Hide contents

Two sisters had the same group of people (women were contestants too) to date, just like this Bachelorette season started out. But they never ever split the group and forced people to choose between them. There were contestants who expressed a clear preference for one or the other, but not all did. Naturally, because "reality" TV, there was one guy they both really liked who did not express a preference, and they made him part of their F2 along with a woman who was clear about which twin she wanted to be with. At whatever the show was calling the final ceremony, the woman was rejected by the twin she wanted, while the other twin was rejected by the guy, who then picked her sister. You can imagine what the aftershow was like: One twin alone and humiliated, the other twin still  insecure about her new boyfriend having dated her sister and not making a preference clear until the very end.

I think producers hoped for a mess like that, Rachel and Gabby competing for the same man. The women wisely shut it down by dividing the pool up early. Where they erred was in trusting the producers' input on setting up the rose ceremony this way (why they listen to the producers about anything, I don't get, because the producers are always going to go for drama and by this point Rachel and Gabby should know that). All that needed to be done was have the guys split themselves up into two groups in advance and then have the women come in and offer roses to the ones in their own groups that they wanted to keep. (If the numbers when the men divided themselves up were a little uneven, the producers could have easily gotten the wrong-reasons dudes who just want camera time and to be on BiP or be the next Bachelor to switch around as needed - like they obviously just did right now with Meatball.) I'm sure that was an option that occurred to the producers, but they didn't suggest it to the women because then there wouldn't be the drama that happened.

I thiught tremayne went home??

[Melonie77]

According to BachelorData on Instagram, Rachel had nine roses to give out while Gabby had only eight. And Rachel gave out the first rose AND the last one plus had one extra guy over Gabby since Gabby chose not to give out a rose during the last date. The fact that they both end up with the same number of men despite the three that declined roses was all apparently due to editing and producer meddling as explained here:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CgdXWWdjCom/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=f15a7899-85fd-49d5-9663-a86935d87078

Edited July 26, 2022 by Melonie77

[tinkerbell]

All throughout, Jesse has been telling Gabby and Rachel - "It's your show, you make the decisions." 

But we know that's not true.  Each time Rachel offered a rose to a guy, Jesse swooped in to confiscate that rose.  Why?   Why can't she offer the same rose to someone else after it was rejected?   After all, It's her show, she can make the rules!   

[Jennabelle88]

This episode made me feel so sympathetic towards both Gabby and Rachel, and at the same time, I was suffering secondhand embarrassment! What has happened?!

[tennisgurl]

Meatball has serious Paradise energy. I hope that Rachel wont let him back in after he rejected her, but I am guessing the producers will make her. Ugh, so much second hand embarrassment. The only thing I like about him now is that every time he's onscreen my spouse, who complains endlessly about this show and yet never leaves the room when its on, shouts "MEATBALL!" every time he's onscreen in a fake New York accent.

For the love of God, stop canceling cocktail parties! It drives me nuts every single time, how are they supposed to make connections, the thing they endlessly go on about, if they never talk to any of the guys?

[Jax7917]

Does meatball have an actual name ? I’m confused . Shouldn’t the meatball part be in parentheses after his real name ? Lol 

I’m sure it really is hurtful for both girls to be in a position where they get rejected . In other seasons , at least one person goes home because they don’t see a future with the lead, but not multiple people . It’s always hard to be compared to someone else . But on the other hand , it’s not much different than paradise where people get rejected left and right and at least the contestants are being more real by not pretending to be into the lead just because they’re the only one there . There is never a situation where 30 people are all going to be into one person regardless of how traditionally good looking the person is . 
 

I’m also confused because at the beginning of the episode , the girls were saying that the guys should have chosen by now and if they didn’t then it’s “ sketch .” But now they’re choosing and the girls feel so rejected . It’s really a lose lose for the guys . Rachel saying that she’s so embarrassed because the guys are dumping her publicly , but the girls canceled the cocktail party so what did she expect ? 

[jackjill89]

I agree with those saying they should have had a few weeks of only group dates to get to know the guys, then divide and cull the herd. 

[Black Knight]

5 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

I thiught tremayne went home??

He did. After he turned down Rachel's rose, Gabby did not offer him one. I'm not surprised because of the way that he ignored Rachel at his introduction (he's the one who did the mic drop with Gabby and then strolled into the house without saying a word to Rachel). I don't think Gabby would have had any use for him after that. It's fine if a dude goes in knowing which woman he wants, but there's no need to be so rude to the other one, especially at the freaking introduction - at least say hi. It's interesting how some of the men seem absolutely clueless that these Bachelorettes are genuine friends who don't get some perverse satisfaction out of a guy behaving badly with the other one and actually consider it a red flag. Gabby did not offer a rose to Termayne and Rachel did not offer a rose to Jacob. (Note Gabby also didn't offer roses to either of the other two guys, Alec and Meatball, who rejected Rachel's rose. They weren't rude/mean about it but I think the circumstance of it happening at the ceremony was just too much for Gabby. She hated seeing Rachel embarrassed.) The only thing that saved Hayden was the need to keep the numbers even - Rachel had to give him her last rose or she would have been down two. I expect she will boot him as soon as the producers let her.

[Melonie77]

Maybe having two leads is just not a good idea. It takes some of the power away from the bachelor / bachelorette lead and adds another issue to worry about besides dealing with the "wrong reasons" contestants.

[Melonie77]

1 hour ago, Jax7917 said:

Does meatball have an actual name ? I’m confused . Shouldn’t the meatball part be in parentheses after his real name ? Lol 

I think Meatball's name is James. It was so weird that they showed more of his story during the credits.

Did I miss anyone on the show letting us know they are going on a European cruise? I don't recall them promoting this at all. I would think a cruise as a new twist for the show would have been mentioned as something really unique for viewers to look forward to.

[DEL901]

16 minutes ago, Melonie77 said:

I think Meatball's name is James. It was so weird that they showed more of his story during the credits.

Did I miss anyone on the show letting us know they are going on a European cruise? I don't recall them promoting this at all. I would think a cruise as a new twist for the show would have been mentioned as something really unique for viewers to look forward to.

The cruise is so they don’t have to stay in a hotel and minimize the chance of Covid exposure.  

[Melonie77]

1 minute ago, DEL901 said:

The cruise is so they don’t have to stay in a hotel and minimize the chance of Covid exposure.  

That makes sense although I didn't see that explanation anywhere.
It's still a novel idea and I'm looking forward to watching them hold Bach on a cruise ship. I hope the setting isn't played down.

[JenE4]

17 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

The cruise is so they don’t have to stay in a hotel and minimize the chance of Covid exposure.  

I was on a cruise last week (hence missing the live chat). A cruise ship is not the place to be to avoid crowds and minimize the chance of COVID exposure. (Although they require testing within 2 days of boarding, seeing lots of people on a cruising site reporting becoming positive during the cruise or after getting home. Though, I didn’t see that on my cruise specifically.) Frankly, I’m wondering how in the world they’ll have enough free space to film anything on a cruise ship without massive crowds of passengers. I can’t imagine they would charter out a whole ship just to film this show, unless it’s a small river boat and not like a huge-ass Royal Caribbean ship or something such line.

[Melonie77]

1 hour ago, JenE4 said:

 Frankly, I’m wondering how in the world they’ll have enough free space to film anything on a cruise ship without massive crowds of passengers. I can’t imagine they would charter out a whole ship just to film this show, unless it’s a small river boat and not like a huge-ass Royal Caribbean ship or something such line.

If I remember correctly I read a few months ago that they did book the ship to themselves!
It's hard to believe but maybe they limited the number of other guests?
Or maybe filming a TV show onboard is a great source of advertising for a new cruise ship and so they do have it all to themselves?

According to today's Cruise-Hive article I linked below, the specific ship booked is the brand new Valiant Lady owned by Richard Branson.
Looks like they plan on using some of the ship's amenities to film dates including the nightclub, spa and pubs.

"During their time aboard, the bachelorettes will unwind at some of the ship’s elegant spaces having thoughtful convos over cocktails at On the Rocks and one-on-ones at Pink Agave. When not on dates, the bachelors will explore the ship, enjoying the outdoor daybeds of The Dock, playing air hockey at The Social Club, and relaxing at the Loose Cannon."

"Valiant Lady’s signature nightclub, The Manor, will make a special appearance for one of the season’s most competitive dates. Redemption Spa’s relaxing thermal suite and mud room onboard will double as a relaxing hideaway and hangout for the guys during the filming."

https://www.cruisehive.com/virgin-voyages-cruise-ship-to-make-first-ever-appearance-on-abc-reality-series/77305#:~:text=The reality romance television show,air on ABC next week.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Melonie77

[Real4real]

3 hours ago, Black Knight said:

After he turned down Rachel's rose, Gabby did not offer him one. . . .some of the men seem absolutely clueless that these Bachelorettes are genuine friends who don't get some perverse satisfaction out of a guy behaving badly with the other one and actually consider it a red flag. Gabby did not offer a rose to Termayne and Rachel did not offer a rose to Jacob. (Note Gabby also didn't offer roses to either of the other two guys, Alec and Meatball, who rejected Rachel's rose. They weren't rude/mean about it but I think the circumstance of it happening at the ceremony was just too much for Gabby. She hated seeing Rachel embarrassed.) 

Wouldn’t you think that Gabby and Rachel discussed this with each other before the RC—who liked which guy and who they would offer their roses to?  They are friends and wouldn’t want to go after someone the other was super into.  They seemed genuinely surprised by guys turning down Rachel’s roses.  I do think if the guy turned Rachel down, there was no way Gabby was going to pick him because she’d already decided who she was interested in and wasn’t going to go after someone Rachel liked.

I also think there was probably more than one guy who didn’t know which one he liked best and accepted the rose from whoever offered it first.  🤷‍♀️ Why not? 

[SassyCat]

I felt so bad for Gabby during the rose ceremony. She looked so fragile and deflated after being rejected by some of the guys beforehand. That tarzan guy was unnecessarily cruel with his words. He had absolutely no finesse. 
I see that her drawly voice comes out more so when shes feeling insecure. 
I had a mother similar to Gabbys mother, but she died when I was 18. Her lack of motherly  interest and love is still very painful and I know it affected my ability to form loving relationships in life. It must be terribly hard for Gabby to have a mother like that who is still among the living but continues to make her feel rejected and unloved to this day. My heart breaks for her. I am so glad she has that sweetheart Grandpa who shows so much love and interest in her. 
I hope she can reach the point someday where she understands fully that none of it was her fault or doing. Its hard, once the damage is done. She was the child who was innocent and only needed what every child needs and desires. Their mothers true love and warmth towards her. 
I do think that Nate is a great match for her so far and is not judgemental about her different more outgoing kooky personality. Humor disguises her pain.

[Andromeda]

TO ALL THE PRODUCERS who think having two bachelorettes is soooooo complicated... Watch Joe Millionaire 2. There was never an issue over who was pursuing who. It's just not that complicated!

In that show, the men discussed the eliminations with each other. They also knew who the other guy was most into.

Jesse walking off with the rejected roses was mean and unnecessary. Also unprecedented. The MEN (Bachelors) could give the roses to any of the women, so why the limitation? Probably it's just a cost-saving measure because the first night they didn't kick off the required number. and now they're going to Paris. But it was a shitty thing to do, show.

I am not particularly entertained seeing these young women constantly in tears or feeling crappy. Knock it off, show. Give me fun winery dates and dance lessons, anything but that.

I have a feeling Gabby's mom issues made it back to the guys in general, so some decided to bail on her at the group date for carrying too much baggage. Sad.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Andromeda

[JenE4]

42 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

TO ALL THE PRODUCERS who think having two bachelorettes is soooooo complicated... Watch Joe Millionaire 2. There was never an issue over who was pursuing who. It's just not that complicated!

I am not particularly entertained seeing these young women constantly in tears. Knock it off, show. Give me fun winery dates and dance lessons, anything but that.

I have a feeling Gabby's mom issues made it back to the guys in general, so some decided to bail on her at the group date for carrying too much baggage. 

Yeah, but Steven picked Callah, who he and Kurt both liked, and who flittered between both of them until Very last date day when she was forced to pick one, and then went with Steven. It was just less dramatic because Kurt had two other women who he was obviously more into. But they kept around a handful of girls who couldn’t decide between them and they both sort of liked for a long time. Gabby and Rachel couldn’t even make it one week without multiple histrionic events over which guy liked the other more, and they couldn’t give a fella a second glance if the other expressed interest first. So maybe that was the problem, the show assumed it would go smoothly like Joe millionaire and didn’t consider the girls are no average Joes.

Edited July 27, 2022 by JenE4

[Andromeda]

Good point, maybe it just doesn't work as easily with women. But clear guidelines, and talking among themselves, would make things easier.

[CrazyDog]

I'm sure it's been mentioned before, but despite the producers claiming to be all "girl power and friendship goals" for this season, of course they want maximum drama. They aren't going the organized or simpler route for divvying up the guys if they can do it in a way to cause maximum messiness and humiliation.

[Tuneful]

Does the production company not do the most rudimentary screening? (Something I’ve also wondered about Sharp productions). Gabby is someone who obviously has a lot of struggles, or, as the men might say, “issues.” Also, she seems an introvert; not comfortable with flirting; and to me a lot younger than age 31—more like 24.

Maybe it’s hard for her to relate to a lot of these men including because of her work. I'm kind of like her. I didn’t do well with online dating, e.g., and I resigned from it.  I hoped I would meet someone IRL but it hasn’t happened, at least yet, and in my senior years here I doubt it will, but who knows. 

Like Gabby I was always looking for a guy who could relate to me,  be willing to take it slowly, and not looking for a "purse," and those things haven’t been common. I think she had a great day with Zach and Grandpa, and I was sorry to see it tank with the emotional breakdown to Zach. Not good to trot your deep problems out early in dating, or believe that a guy is your therapist. I too had a mother who was destructive to me. 

I wonder if she had a bad breakup or two IRL in the past couple of years (I didn't watch the Clayton season) that has really thrown her for a loop. That, and her nursing work during COVID. And the fakery in show business. Show, let Gabby go home, Put someone else in there. Unless this is all an act. 

Those men who rejected her were rude, except Tyler. They think that telling her she's "smokin'" while brushing her off and walking out is enough. I only wish she had come back to Mr. Rough Around the Edges with "Well, that comment was pretty rough around the edges." Young men can be shallow, and I think some of them don't think she's attractive enough (an NFL cheerleader until 2021, among other things). 

What about speed dating, done over, say, 2 nights? One way to make first cuts. Too sensible probably. And 29 men is too many.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Tuneful

[Sweet-tea]

On 7/27/2022 at 1:02 PM, SassyCat said:

I felt so bad for Gabby during the rose ceremony. She looked so fragile and deflated after being rejected by some of the guys beforehand. That tarzan guy was unnecessarily cruel with his words. He had absolutely no finesse. 
I see that her drawly voice comes out more so when shes feeling insecure. 
I had a mother similar to Gabbys mother, but she died when I was 18. Her lack of motherly  interest and love is still very painful and I know it affected my ability to form loving relationships in life. It must be terribly hard for Gabby to have a mother like that who is still among the living but continues to make her feel rejected and unloved to this day. My heart breaks for her. I am so glad she has that sweetheart Grandpa who shows so much love and interest in her. 
I hope she can reach the point someday where she understands fully that none of it was her fault or doing. Its hard, once the damage is done. She was the child who was innocent and only needed what every child needs and desires. Their mothers true love and warmth towards her. 
I do think that Nate is a great match for her so far and is not judgemental about her different more outgoing kooky personality. Humor disguises her pain.

I feel for her too. I'm in my 50s and my mother was never able to show me love. She died last year. It is still very painful for me and I've felt broken and unlovable all my life. Gabby's words were really hitting me hard. I don't think she should be on this show. 

I don't understand why Jesse took Rachel's roses. It seemed to reinforce the rejection she got from the guys. It was like he was punishing her!

This two Bachelorettes concept doesn't seem to be working well so far. Either that or they have the wrong leads. 

Edited July 29, 2022 by Sweet-tea

[phlebas]

50 minutes ago, Sweet-tea said:

I don't understand why Jesse took Rachel's roses. It seemed to reinforce the rejection she got from the guys. It was like he was punishing her!

It was all carefully orchestrated by production.  Nothing in that rose ceremony was unplanned or a surprise.

Look at the rose tables at the beginning -- Gabby started with eight roses, Rachel started with nine.  That is why Rachel went both first and last.  You would think Gabby would have started with more because she didn't give out a group date rose,. However....

Gabby already had one guy on her team, Rachel had two. If all the roses had been accepted, Gabby would have had nine guys and Rachel 11.

Yet production knew three of those dweebs were going to reject Rachel's roses.  That left her with eight guys and Gabby had nine.

Then production pushed Meatball into crawling back to Rachel.  Rachel most likely was in on it as well (I mean, what does she care?  I think she has her top 2-3 in mind and Meatball isn't among them). 

Jesse took Rachel's roses so the two women would go to Paris with an equal number of guys. The numbers add up, and putting the women through emotional wringers for the whole episode was just a bonus.

[phlebas]

33 minutes ago, phlebas said:

It was all carefully orchestrated by production.  Nothing in that rose ceremony was unplanned or a surprise.

Look at the rose tables at the beginning -- Gabby started with eight roses, Rachel started with nine.  That is why Rachel went both first and last.  You would think Gabby would have started with more because she didn't give out a group date rose,. However....

Gabby already had one guy on her team, Rachel had two. If all the roses had been accepted, Gabby would have had nine guys and Rachel 11.

Yet production knew three of those dweebs were going to reject Rachel's roses.  That left her with eight guys and Gabby had nine.

Then production pushed Meatball into crawling back to Rachel.  Rachel most likely was in on it as well (I mean, what does she care?  I think she has her top 2-3 in mind and Meatball isn't among them). 

Jesse took Rachel's roses so the two women would go to Paris with an equal number of guys. The numbers add up, and putting the women through emotional wringers for the whole episode was just a bonus.

Besides, with three extra roses, who was she going to pick?  Of the four remaining, three of them had already turned her down (including Meatball) and Jacob had treated Gabby like shit.  She had already been forced to take Hayden at the final five.  She was probably sad Jesse didn't take more roses :)

[ljenkins782]

On 7/25/2022 at 9:49 PM, ECM1231 said:

Yeah, but Hayden, especially, was cruel. Questioning her morals and saying she was rough around the edges? Just gently say she's a great gal, but you feel a stronger connection with Rachel.

The fact that he got to stay makes me think he's the next villain in the making. He looks smug to begin with, but his speech to Gabby was really snide and unnecessary. Like a "nice guy" who knows the hot girl isn't going to go for him, so he has to make sure he insults her first. 

Quote

If this were real life and a girl brought along her grandpa on the first date, saged away your demons, and then cried about all of her abandonment issues and insecurities, do you think he’d ask her out on a second date?

Quote

Erich looked so bummed when her grandpa showed up, which made me laugh. I wouldn't want someone's grandpa, no matter how cute, on my first date either. 

Erich's expression when Grandpa walked in was priceless. It definitely was not excitement at getting an in with a family member this early on, it was more like "shit, I guess we're not making out on this date." 

He also couldn't find any enthusiasm for that stupid date, which I can't blame him for. The only part of that date that looked appealing to me was Grandpa's nap bed, that looked comfy. And then with Gabby's tearful confessions, that was another thing he looked like he didn't sign up for.

Overall, that date just really sucked and Erich clearly isn't Bachelor Nation-polished enough to play along and put a face on it. He seems like he's having way more fun hanging with the other guys, he was cracking me up dancing and making signals with the guys on Rachel's side during the rose ceremony.

Quote

Well, this season went sideways. I can’t imagine that the producers thought this would happen (but then again, maybe they did).

No, I think all of this was the anticipated outcome. They knew it would generate insecurity and drama. I can almost guarantee that you'd never see 2 bachelors at once, but taking 2 women who'd been lied to and publicly humiliated and putting them in this situation where they can be embarrassed all over again is good tv to them.

And either they did line them up deliberately or they took these instances that happened separately and strung them together in editing to make it extra embarrassing. Same with Gabby's visit to the house, there was a moment where you can see a group of guys around her talking to her, but the camera's focus is on the football playing guys. Her voiceover indicates disappointment, but it's clear that some of the guys did pay attention to her. 

But as for Gabby's 'surprise' visit to the house, what exactly was supposed to happen? Were they supposed to do the whole cocktail party "can I steal you for a minute" routine? Honestly, if they weren't expecting her and no one briefed them, I'm not surprised they didn't know exactly what to do. Not that I believe anything on these shows isn't staged, but still, there are a million guys still left and it was an unplanned event, so it may have just been confusion on their part and not disinterest.

[phlebas]

16 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

The fact that he got to stay makes me think he's the next villain in the making. He looks smug to begin with, but his speech to Gabby was really snide and unnecessary. Like a "nice guy" who knows the hot girl isn't going to go for him, so he has to make sure he insults her first. 

I agree. Hayden is my frontrunner for the owner of the "can't trust these bitches" comment.