S06.E09: Fun and Games

[thuganomics85]

Well, damn!  It's official: rest in peace, Jimmy McGill.  It's the world of Saul Goodman now!

Did not expect that time jump at all, so I'm curious to see if this will end up being the last we see of Kim, Gus, and Mike going forward.  I have a suspicion that Kim might factor back in at some point, but I can see this being the last of Gus and Mike since they both seem to pretty much be at the spot where they will become who they are in Breaking Bad.  But, again, this show certainly finds ways to fool me, so I could totally be off the mark here.

Either way, it looks like Kim and Jimmy are not just done for thanks to everything that happened, but Kim even flat-out quit being a lawyer as well.  Crazy to think she was this close to landing her dream job and probably going on to be an even bigger and better attorney, but threw it all away so that she and Jimmy could fuck over a guy who really didn't deserve it.  Yeah, yeah, she (and Jimmy) certainly had no idea that Lalo was going to come back into play like he did, but I suspect something like this was always in the cards for them.  As she pretty much said, they brought the worst out of themselves and while they might not have been toxic with each other, everyone else seems to get sucked into the filthy vortex that they cause.  At least she seems to realize this now, but I think it's less of a "breaking good" for her and more of accepting who she is (like Walter did.)  Meanwhile, I think Jimmy still really believed they weren't bad people and that's a big difference.  And I can see why this and her leaving is going to make him become "Saul."

Hey, we got a mini Homicide: Life on the Street reunion with Reed Diamond playing the sommelier with Gus at the restaurant!  Probably the happiest we've ever seen Gus!  Definitely think there was some flirtatious vibes going on from both of them, but of course Gus would never act on it.  The chance of any kind of life like that died at Don Eladio's place years ago.

Speaking of which, Don Eladio might be close to being the worst, but since Hector Salamanca is actually the worst, I was cracking up over him mocking Hector's bell.  I do think he probably suspects Gus did kill Lalo, but doesn't care because he thinks Gus is more valuable.  Knowing how everything turns out, it's probably a decision he will regret.

At least Mike did give Nacho's dad some closure, but I'm not surprised it didn't really help things too much, and I don't think Mr. Vega is wrong that Mike really isn't that much better than the rest, even if he occasionally show the capability of regretting the path he has chosen.

Howard's funeral was as sad as I expected.  Poor Cheryl knew something was off about it, but Kim managed to salvage it which was both impressive and cold as hell.  Oh, and HHM is no more.  Just another inadvertent casualty that Jimmy and Kim left in their wake.

I can see why this episode might get some of the classic filler criticism here, but I enjoyed seeing the aftermath of what transpired last week and seeing the paths that the four leads are destined to take.  Certainly helped that Odenkirk, Seehorn, Banks, and Esposito were all at the top of their game here, which is really saying something.

Can not wait till next week! 

[Sailorgirl26]

I know this belongs in the media thread, but this is a phenomenal recap of tonight's episode.

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-recaps/better-call-saul-recap-fun-games-1383100/

It also clarifies how far we jumped in the timeline -- still not Breaking Bad timeline:

(*) The license plate on Saul’s Cadillac has a registration renewal sticker dated 2005. So unless he’s driving around with an expired registration — not worth the hassle, especially when he can send get poor Francesca to handle such a detail — that puts this scene only a year or so after Kim walks out, while Walt won’t try to hire Saul until 2008. So all sorts of timeline shenanigans could be possible in these concluding chapters.  
 

[Ellaria]

Such a simple, straightforward answer to the question of “what happened to Kim.” She walked away.

Was it heartbreaking? Not really. It was necessary for her to save her soul (or what’s left of it). She did what Jimmy - and Walt - could never do…walk away. I don’t feel any satisfaction with her choice because, on her way out, she had to do further damage to Howard’s reputation and to his wife.

I don’t know if we will ever see Kim again. I think her storyline has ended. What a brilliant character!

I suspect that we will see more of Mike before this series ends. I’m fine with not seeing anything further of Gus or the cartel. We know what’s coming for all of them. Hector and Don Eladio annoy me to no end so if this was their last appearance in BCS, I’ll be happy.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Ellaria Sand

[OutOfTheQuestion]

After stretching the Jimmy-to-Saul transformation over more than five seasons, the show suddenly just rips the band-aid off and makes the full transition within the span of one jump-cut.  Incredible.

"Fun and Games" was also the title of the first act of Who's Afraid Of Virginia Woolf, about another notoriously toxic couple that seem to poison everyone around them.

[WritinMan]

57 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

Sorry.  Badger, whose real name is Brandon Mayhew.  When Saul is talking to Francesca she tells him about a new client who has been charged with public masturbation.  When Saul meets Badger in jail he thinks Badger is that client.    

I needed a refresher and had to go look this up. Here's the scene where Saul goes to see Brandon/Badger.

[sistermagpie]

32 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

Damn, Jimmy and Kim pretty much took down an entire law firm. Kim's lie to Cheryl seemed especially unforgivable bc it felt like she was killing Howard's memory. 

And gaslighting her and guilting the wife too. She had only just learned from Howard that the two were separated. So her saying, "You were his wife..." was as if she still thought the two of them were together. But the wife would totally have thought how she wasn't really his wife that past year, so maybe couldn't know him as well as she did before, or should have been with him etc. A real contrast to Jimmy's attempt to convince her by making himself look bad with the truth. 

[Starchild]

6 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

And gaslighting her and guilting the wife too. She had only just learned from Howard that the two were separated. So her saying, "You were his wife..." was as if she still thought the two of them were together. But the wife would totally have thought how she wasn't really his wife that past year, so maybe couldn't know him as well as she did before, or should have been with him etc. A real contrast to Jimmy's attempt to convince her by making himself look bad with the truth. 

Just thinking the same thing. Kim knew exactly what she was doing. That comment was meant to ratchet up the guilt to 11, effectively deflecting the guilt away from her and Jimmy and onto Cheryl.

Cold.

[Armchair Critic]

I almost felt bad for Hector that he got dismissed and carried off. At least he has one fan, my cat kept looking at him when he was ringing his bell. 😂

[scenario]

10 minutes ago, Starchild said:

Just thinking the same thing. Kim knew exactly what she was doing. That comment was meant to ratchet up the guilt to 11, effectively deflecting the guilt away from her and Jimmy and onto Cheryl.

Cold.

Of all the things Kim did that was the absolute worst. Ruthless. 

[Jodithgrace]

At least now we know why Saul’s house is so tacky. Kim would never have approved of that monstrosity. This is Saul indulging his own taste, or lack thereof. 
 

I do hope we get another glimpse of Kim before the end. I want to know what becomes of her. 

[ahmerali]

Well, Saul isn't wearing the same tie as he does when he meets Badger at the jail, so I think we're not quite there yet.

I guess, surprisingly this is what everyone wanted. I personally feel it's a lesson that you should be careful what you wish for, but that's just me.

I am at least looking forward to hopefully seeing Saul hook up with Kuby, maybe another appearance by Gale Boetticher once the Superlab is complete, and also something about Danny, without whom a money laundering operation cannot function.

[LittleIggy]

The wine scene bored the 💩 out of me.

When I decided I was through being a lawyer and changed careers, I let my license go inactive. Believe it or not, the State Bar of TN wanted me to keep paying them for the privilege of being inactive. My response: 🖕🏻. Don’t know what one does in a situation like Kim’s

[MJ Frog]

2 hours ago, Constantinople said:

It makes you wonder what it's all for since Gus really has no way of enjoying life and he has to be on all the time.

Something I have often wondered about over the years when observing Gus's carefully constructed life, and something to consider regarding anyone who has to hide their wealth and who they are -- what's it all for in the end? Is there ever a payoff?

The whole sequence beginning with Gus looking down at Don Eladio's pool, to his deciding to walk away from the sommelier, was a reminder of just how well crafted this show is, and how much the showrunners trust the audience. In lesser hands, there would have been a flashback to Max's murder and maybe a few bits of dialogue to lead us by the hand in case we still didn't get what was going on in Gus's head. Instead, those of us who know his story have plenty to work with when imagining all that's happening under the surface, unspoken. Funny how this show can make me feel sorry for that monster sometimes, and that is the mark of good storytelling.

Edited July 19, 2022 by MJ Frog
Better word choice. Because that's important.

[PeterPirate]

8 hours ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

I know this belongs in the media thread, but this is a phenomenal recap of tonight's episode.

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-recaps/better-call-saul-recap-fun-games-1383100/

It also clarifies how far we jumped in the timeline -- still not Breaking Bad timeline:

(*) The license plate on Saul’s Cadillac has a registration renewal sticker dated 2005. So unless he’s driving around with an expired registration — not worth the hassle, especially when he can send get poor Francesca to handle such a detail — that puts this scene only a year or so after Kim walks out, while Walt won’t try to hire Saul until 2008. So all sorts of timeline shenanigans could be possible in these concluding chapters.  
 

That article is excellent.  

The tag on the plate is indeed "05".  I'm befuddled about why they didn't jump the whole four years.  I suppose we still need to see the superlab get completed.  There's also the veterinarian's black book to tie up.  There's also the "happy ending" trailer.  That needs an explanation.  

And, of course, there is the phone call.  

Edited July 19, 2022 by PeterPirate

[Bannon]

Several great scenes in the episode, but I think my favorite was the meeting of Mr. Vargas with Mike. Nice to see one normal, ethical, person dismiss, with contempt, all the bullshit rationalizations.

Really interested to see where this goes now.

[Blakeston]

I remember how many Breaking Bad fans were absolutely insistent that Gus was straight, and that he and Max were just friends.

If they've seen this episode, I guess they think that Gus was only interested in the wine! 🤣

[Armchair Critic]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Much like Gus, who's also trapped himself in a lonely life and has to go all in. BB is never going to play the same way again. In a weird way all these people have earned Walter White coming into their world and taking them all out. Yes, he's terrible too, but he's *alive* and embracing his awfulness by the end. They deserve him. I never saw Walt as a hero or somebody doing it for his family or whatever, but I never hated him either--I always appreciated his skill at getting out of things when pushed to the wall. Now I feel like there's something cleansing about him. He's like the acids he works with or something.

I never hated Walt either. I have really enjoyed this show, but I no longer like Mike, Gus, and Saul like I did during BB. I used to get such a kick out of Saul but now I will have a hard time finding him funny. It may also be because Saul looks older and frailer than he did during BB (I do know about the actor's heart attack but he does look older now obviously). 

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, Starchild said:

Gus with the waiter. That's the most animated, dare I say happy, I've ever seen Gus. The stories the guy was telling were boring as hell, so I can only assume Gus was smitten with him. Then he remembers Max, or perhaps just generally comes back to earth knowing he can never bring another partner into this world, it would only end badly. Poor lonely Gus.

First, I have to be upfront about the fact that I'd let Reed Diamond bore me all night long.  Clearly, so would Gus. 

I think Gus was about to be bold and invite David over to his house to try that special wine but then he started to reflect on the qualities of the wine he was drinking.  David mentioned that it had a "bloody" quality to it.  I don't think he thought much of it at first but did think more about it when David went to get the other bottle to show him.

1 hour ago, Jodithgrace said:

I do hope we get another glimpse of Kim before the end. I want to know what becomes of her. 

I really want their lies to get them in external trouble instead of just Kim deciding that it was too much.  It feels so unsatisfying to me that she continued to destroy a man's life and then just decides to peace out. 

But what I want is probably not the way the show is going to end if Breaking Bad is anything to go by. 

[OutOfTheQuestion]

1 hour ago, Jodithgrace said:

I do hope we get another glimpse of Kim before the end. I want to know what becomes of her. 

I find it impossible to believe that was Kim's last episode, and we'll never find out what she's doing in the Gene timeline (or even during the BB timeline since it looks like we'll be getting some time of Jimmy as full Saul).

[Cthulhudrew]

3 hours ago, Andre LaPlume said:

I am thinking too slow too much filler.   And then boom.    How far did we jump?  

The license plate tags on Saul's car said November '05. So, maybe not that far a leap (depending on whether/if Saul actually renews his registration properly.)

EDIT: Late to the party. Now that I'm on page 2, I see that Sailorgirl26 beat me to it.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Cthulhudrew

[Andre LaPlume]

While Kim’s lie to Howard’s wife was cold and reprehensible, I was on her side while watching.  If Howard’s wife’s skepticism wasn’t squashed, that could mean serious problems for Kim and Jimmy.    This show just does a great job of putting you in the mindset of awful people doing terrible things that seem necessary

[wendyg]

7 hours ago, Starchild said:

I don't think Max was his brother.

Max was *definitely* not his brother!

[Lonesome Rhodes]

It was the best of eps, it was the worst of eps.  

We did get to see Gus do a Sydney Carton take (It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have done before).

The juxtaposition montage was tremendous.  The dissolve to Saul's tomato sauce from Howard's blood was beyond.  Wow.

I feel cheated that Kim won't have to answer for blowing off Cliff and the foundation folks.  It seems we won't get the satisfaction of the Kettleman's getting their due.  Loved the reveal of Miss Liberty on the roof, though.

I disagree with Senor Varga.  Wiping out the Salamancas is, in fact. justicia.  Life is not just.  So, take victory where you can find it.  

Kim's smacking down Cheryl's pride was certainly a vicious turn.  However, let's not make Cheryl out to be virginally pure.  She was done with Howard long before Howard was done.  I am NOT saying she was wrong to separate. 

The HHM scene felt like a funeral for BCS itself, as much as it was a remembrance of Howard.  Shwiekart's making a point of calling Jimmy, "Saul" was a perfect coda.

[chick binewski]

1 hour ago, Andre LaPlume said:

While Kim’s lie to Howard’s wife was cold and reprehensible, I was on her side while watching.  If Howard’s wife’s skepticism wasn’t squashed, that could mean serious problems for Kim and Jimmy.    This show just does a great job of putting you in the mindset of awful people doing terrible things that seem necessary

I had an opposite thought when Kim & Saul walked back into the pristine apartment - none of what they did was necessary. I mean, Walt and Mike made a conscious decision to become criminals but arguably not merely for the sake of committing criminal acts (at the start, anyway). Kim & Saul had each other, a path to success and a big check waiting for them. But they decided to fuck with people instead. I just couldn't feel for either of them this episode.

[Bannon]

26 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

I had an opposite thought when Kim & Saul walked back into the pristine apartment - none of what they did was necessary. I mean, Walt and Mike made a conscious decision to become criminals but arguably not merely for the sake of committing criminal acts (at the start, anyway). Kim & Saul had each other, a path to success and a big check waiting for them. But they decided to fuck with people instead. I just couldn't feel for either of them this episode.

We don't know (yet) what the ensuing years hold for Kim, before Gene enters the baked cinnamon goods industry. Maybe she tries to balance out the damage she's done, in pursuit of "fun", but her performance to Cheryl was as gross and contemptible as anything possible, short of visiting actual violence on an innocent person. We know Cheryl's not perfect, because nobody is, but we have not seen a single thing which indicates that she is deserving of the hideously vile manipulation that Kim targeted upon her. If Kim actually wanted to be a decent human being, deserving of forgiveness? She would have taken the path long advocated by Manuel Varga, for Ignacio.  Absent that, she's just another shitbag, rationalizing why she can't do what is ethically demanded of her. At least Nacho stepped up, and willingly paid a monumental cost, for his hideous behavior, in order to protect an innocent person. If Kim just leaves to go live a middle class life somewhere, even if doing some good, she'll not have made amends for the damage she's done, topped off by possibly years, maybe decades, of undeserving horrible emotional pain and suffering that Cheryl may experience. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Bannon

[Chaos Theory]

8 hours ago, Starchild said:

I don't think Max was his brother.

I realized that after I posted it but then went to bed and didn’t fix it.   I think Gus  presented Max as “his business partner” but he was killed by the Salamancas on the orders of Don Eladio in  that freaking pool as a message to Gus to stay in his lane.  Which is why he has a hates them so much.   It is sad that he won’t allow himself even the smallest amount of happiness because of his war with the cartel but then again we know what kind of man he ultimately becomes.   Still it was nice to see him happy if only for a minute.  

[Lalo Lives]

On 7/17/2022 at 10:25 AM, PeterPirate said:

It's about time we had a lighthearted episode after all the death and destruction.

I had feeling, when I first saw the title, that we were NOT gonna get anything lighthearted….these people seem to mislead at every turn. I think they know we will try to decipher what will happen based on ANY clue. There were moments, however.

The shower comb-over was too funny.

[Neiman]

My favorite part was the way Don Eladio imitated the bell. Like a Shakespearean tragedy, the writers added some comic relief in the midst of death and intensity.

I was expecting Kim to jump when she was on the roof. After some of the things she said/did, part of me wished she had.

[wendyg]

Minor musical note: in the earliest BCS episodes, we saw Jimmy revving himself for courtroom appearances accompanied by the music Bob Fosse uses for the same purpose in ALL THAT JAZZ. The music playing when the Saul Goodman & Associates sign is being hoisted into place was also used in that movie - it's the music playing when the not-fully-up-to-standard dancer Fosse's character has hired because he's attracted to her comes to his home for sex and  and they get caught by his longtime girlfriend (Ann Reinking). In a show with this much attention to detail, it can't be an accident. (Different recording, though.)

Edited July 19, 2022 by wendyg

[NYCFree]

15 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I realized that after I posted it but then went to bed and didn’t fix it.   I think Gus  presented Max as “his business partner” but he was killed by the Salamancas on the orders of Don Eladio in  that freaking pool as a message to Gus to stay in his lane.  Which is why he has a hates them so much.   It is sad that he won’t allow himself even the smallest amount of happiness because of his war with the cartel but then again we know what kind of man he ultimately becomes.   Still it was nice to see him happy if only for a minute.  

The show has strongly indicated that Max was Gus’s lover, not just business partner. That is why his whole life now is dedicated to killing Bolsa, Hector Salamanca, and Don Eladio.

[peeayebee]

8 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

And gaslighting her and guilting the wife too. She had only just learned from Howard that the two were separated. So her saying, "You were his wife..." was as if she still thought the two of them were together. But the wife would totally have thought how she wasn't really his wife that past year, so maybe couldn't know him as well as she did before, or should have been with him etc. A real contrast to Jimmy's attempt to convince her by making himself look bad with the truth. 

What Kim did was terrible but masterful. It wasn't just lying about the drug use, but making Cheryl have doubts. Cheryl, supremely confident, perceptive, and smart, is made to think IF ONLY she had seen the signs that Howard was using drugs. She should have seen the signs because she was his wife, but he was consigned to the guest house. In a couple of sentences Kim completely flips Cheryl.

[Andre LaPlume]

21 minutes ago, Bannon said:

We don't know (yet) what the ensuing years hold for Kim, before Gene enters the baked cinnamon goods industry. Maybe she tries to balance out the damage she's done, in pursuit of "fun", but her performance to Cheryl was as gross and contemptible as anything possible, short of visiting actual violence on an innocent person. We know Cheryl's not perfect, because nobody is, but we have not seen a single thing which indicates that she is deserving of the hideously vile manipulation that Kim targeted upon her. If Kim actually wanted to be a decent human being, deserving of forgiveness? She would have taken the path long advocated by Manuel Varga, for Ignacio.  Absent that, she's just another shitbag, rationalizing why she can't do what is ethically demanded of her. At least Nacho stepped up, and willingly paid a monumental cost, for his hideous behavior, in order to protect an innocent person. If Kim just leaves to go live a middle class life somewhere, even if doing some good, she'll not have made amends for the damage she's done, topped off by possibly years, maybe decades, of undeserving horrible emotional pain and suffering that Cheryl may experience. 

But if Nacho did what his father wanted and gone to the police, he likely would have been killed (and maybe his father too).  Similar for Kim if Cheryl doesn’t let it go.    That doesn’t mean that Kim wasn’t reprehensible.  Objectively I lost sympathy for her a long time ago.   But given where she was at that moment, I understand what she did.   They probably shouldn’t have gone to the wake at all

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Kim's smacking down Cheryl's pride was certainly a vicious turn.  However, let's not make Cheryl out to be virginally pure.  She was done with Howard long before Howard was done.  I am NOT saying she was wrong to separate. 

Oh good, I’m not the only one that felt that way. Don’t get me wrong, Kim gaslighting her like that was despicable, but I haven’t forgotten where Cheryl couldn’t be bothered to even thank Howard for the elaborate cappuccino he made. Yeah, she doesn’t get to play grieving widow. She clearly felt terrible for the way she treated him, but guilt doesn’t change squat.

[suzeecat]

The entire time I'm watching the tense, poolside cartel meeting, the tense Hamlin memorial chat, the tense scenes of Saul and Kim attempting to go about their normal workday after the murderous night before - the entire time, I'm looking for Carol Burnett.  This show!!!!

[Lalo Lives]

5 minutes ago, suzeecat said:

The entire time I'm watching the tense, poolside cartel meeting, the tense Hamlin memorial chat, the tense scenes of Saul and Kim attempting to go about their normal workday after the murderous night before - the entire time, I'm looking for Carol Burnett.  This show!!!!

She was Saul’s hooker who took the Nutrigrain bar as she walked out the door.

Sheesh, some people!

[wendyg]

40 minutes ago, NYCFree said:

The show has strongly indicated that Max was Gus’s lover, not just business partner. That is why his whole life now is dedicated to killing Bolsa, Hector Salamanca, and Don Eladio.

Right, and they've also been shown to be intensely homophobic, which is also part of why they took such pleasure in torturing Gus by killing Max in front of him.

Varga will, sadly, never know the lengths Nacho went to in order to ensure he'd remain safe.

And of course Kim doesn't know Cheryl had consigned Howard to the guest house or how fiercely her words twisted the knife as a result.

[PeterPirate]

7 hours ago, OutOfTheQuestion said:

I find it impossible to believe that was Kim's last episode, and we'll never find out what she's doing in the Gene timeline (or even during the BB timeline since it looks like we'll be getting some time of Jimmy as full Saul).

You are probably right about us seeing Kim again.  I, for one, do not want to see her again in BCS.  Not even in the Gene timeline.  Gene, we know, goes home and watches tapes of himself as Saul Goodman.  He yearns for his old life, and if Kim comes back they will be off to the races all over again.  

After last week's episode I was ready to watch Kim become Darth Wexler.  But now that she's broken, if not good, then anti-bad, I want her to stay away.  

1 hour ago, Lalo Lives said:

Quote

It's about time we had a lighthearted episode after all the death and destruction.

I had feeling, when I first saw the title, that we were NOT gonna get anything lighthearted….these people seem to mislead at every turn. I think they know we will try to decipher what will happen based on ANY clue. There were moments, however.

The shower comb-over was too funny.

Sorry.  I posted that well before the episode and I was trying to be facetious.  I should have added an ellipsis at the end to indicate as such.  

Edited July 19, 2022 by PeterPirate

[BC4ME]

3 minutes ago, wendyg said:

And of course Kim doesn't know Cheryl had consigned Howard to the guest house or how fiercely her words twisted the knife as a result.

If I'm not mistaken Kim does know, which is what made her craft at taking down Cheryl even more devastating and despicable. Howard told them that information the night he was killed at their place.

[Lalo Lives]

2 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

You are probably right about us seeing Kim again.  I, for one, do not want to see her again in BCS.  Not even in the Gene timeline.  Gene, we know, goes home and watches tapes of himself as Saul Goodman.  He yearns for his old life, and if Kim comes back they will be off to the races all over again.  

After last week's episode I was ready to watch Kim become Darth Wexler.  But now that she's broken, if not good, then anti-bad, I want her to stay away.  

Sorry.  I posted that well before the episode and I was trying to be facetious.  I should have added an ellipsis at the end to indicate as such.  

Naw, no judgement intended. I had a feeling you were being ironic or sardonic or some other -IC word…..with these people it’s like having Pinocchio tell you he always tells lies. What?!

G&G and their crew should have been involved in the disinformation game in WW2. Reminds me of a book I read years ago about Operation Mincemeat. So much misdirection.

[Starchild]

1 hour ago, Lalo Lives said:

I had feeling, when I first saw the title, that we were NOT gonna get anything lighthearted….these people seem to mislead at every turn. I think they know we will try to decipher what will happen based on ANY clue. There were moments, however.

The shower comb-over was too funny.

I had all the feelings. What a rollercoaster.

21 minutes ago, wendyg said:

And of course Kim doesn't know Cheryl had consigned Howard to the guest house or how fiercely her words twisted the knife as a result.

She does know. One last bit of cold-blooded ruthlessness to secure her and Jimmy's own safety.

[JudyObscure]

8 hours ago, Bannon said:

Several great scenes in the episode, but I think my favorite was the meeting of Mr. Vargas with Mike. Nice to see one normal, ethical, person dismiss, with contempt, all the bullshit rationalizations.

Mr. Vargas is the best. You could see how shocked Mike was to hear himself lumped in with all the other gangsters. 

This wonderful show! We watch endless crime dramas and always see the "winners" of the shoot outs walk away looking smug. Only here do we see the shock and horror clouding over those winners in the days and weeks after, not only civilians like Kim and Jimmy, but even hardened Mike couldn't concentrate on his baseball and Gus can't enjoy a light conversation over his expensive  wine.

Kim is the most complicated, well written female character I've seen on TV, with some of the Mad Men women running close behind. I go along with the "broke good" theory. She's brilliant and has endless energy, she could be a pediatric surgeon by now.

[EtheltoTillie]

9 hours ago, WritinMan said:

I needed a refresher and had to go look this up. Here's the scene where Saul goes to see Brandon/Badger.

Thank you for this!   "Nothing a little White-Out won't fix."  What a through line from BB to BCS! 

Thanks to those who pointed out the Homicide reunion.  That's passed me by. 

[PeterPirate]

3 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I disagree with Senor Varga.  Wiping out the Salamancas is, in fact. justicia.  Life is not just.  So, take victory where you can find it.  

It occurs to me that Kim can't just walk away from Jimmy forever.  The fake American Greed video identified as her as Saul Goodman's wife.  In the Gene timeline I'd bet someone is looking for her to find out what she knows.  And maybe that's when her past misdeeds finally come to light.  Maybe Carol Burnett will come seeking vengeance.  

That would make for a good TV show.  

Edited July 19, 2022 by PeterPirate

[Simon Boccanegra]

You know you're getting up there in years when you see Arye Gross playing a cranky judge...and doing it rather well. I still hear that name and think of the young actor from '80s teen movies like Just One of the Guys and Soul Man. Also Ellen's guy friend on the early seasons of Ellen. 

On Jimmy's marital history: Although I get what Dev F is saying about how things Saul said in BB could have been encoded, he said he caught his second wife cheating. That would be the one before Kim. When he and Kim got married, the clerk asked if he had proof that his two previous marriages had been dissolved. I think that that was put there for continuity with the "my second wife" line in BB, so we wouldn't be wondering if Kim was going to sleep around at some point. (With a never-seen stepfather or otherwise.) 

It's always a guessing game how much of what BB Saul said was literally true, but the Jimmy we've seen in the deepest-level flashbacks (like season 1's "Marco") seems the type to have had a couple hasty, badly-thought-out, short-term marriages. Which I guess his third one was too, as complicated and interesting as it was.  

Another great episode in a season to savor, and surely to be watched again someday.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Simon Boccanegra

[scenario]

Kim and Jimmy are absolutely perfect for each other. They just have this tendency to destroy everyone around them. They'd destroy any kids they might have had. (In real life they are too old to have kids but there's always adoption plus they are supposed to be 10 years or so younger than they really are.)

[Bannon]

2 hours ago, Andre LaPlume said:

But if Nacho did what his father wanted and gone to the police, he likely would have been killed (and maybe his father too).  Similar for Kim if Cheryl doesn’t let it go.    That doesn’t mean that Kim wasn’t reprehensible.  Objectively I lost sympathy for her a long time ago.   But given where she was at that moment, I understand what she did.   They probably shouldn’t have gone to the wake at all

Manuel Varga, unlike Mike with his pretensions, is a man with a selfless moral code. His son ought to have respected that, as difficult as it may have been. Ignacio eventually came to understand what his father knows in his bones; that there are fates worse than dying. I understand what Kim did. She's decided to be a terrible person, because doing so serves her interests, even as she seeks cheap grace (as opposed to Ignacio's deliberate monumental sacrifice) by giving up her occupation and relationship with Jimmy. She's not remotely close to atoning for the suffering she's visited upon innocent people.

[BC4ME]

I no longer have access to the episode that this scene came from a few episodes back but when Mike was watching Kaylee build the toy where you put a marble on top of a tower and it goes along a twisted path faster and faster to the bottom, he says something to the effect of, if you build it too high the marbles will jump off before the end. Then she tells him something to the effect of, it will all work out once it's finished. Again, paraphrasing here. So in this episode, when Kim, Mike and Jimmy are trying to go about their "perfect day" and at the end Mike can't concentrate on his usual sports and glances over at this marble tower toy, to me it's like they all built the towers too high and thought it would all work out once it was finished but instead the marbles jumped off the track. They're all facing internal reckoning of their behaviors and the consequences of their actions. And their lives all ultimately take a new path because of it, whether it's further galvanization of the path they were headed for (Jimmy and Mike) or a complete change in path like Kim. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by BC4ME

[Eulipian 5k]

12 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

the scene at HHM where Kim basically sticks the knife in Howard's wife's heart and TWISTS

Artfully done: "You mean you've been living with him (these past 6 months) and you didn't know?" But this con only "riled" her up to give Jimmy a solitary kiss; it wasn't foreplay anymore.

Clifford handled himself so well, you could see him remembering the bag in the locker room to wipe away any doubt, but he wouldn't stab Cheryl the way Kim did.

Didn't matter how good/bad Mike's Spanish was, he and Nacho's dad would never be able to communicate, brutal.

This universe started with Walt's birthday celebration, will it end with Gene's birthday reunion????

[Bannon]

I will say that the extension of this universe, created by Gilligan and Gould, I'd like to see, is Manuel Varga, Albuquerque's Seneca, running his small business, imparting his own brand of stoicism on the souls that surround him that desperately need him, whether they know it or not.

[Eulipian 5k]

12 hours ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

I thought they aged Stephen Bauer down quite well. And his imitation of Don Hector's bell was a much needed laugh. 

Hilarious. "Please, haul him off to go shoot Nacho's body some more".

So Gus doesn't get to be a Don? Let's drink to that.