S04.E09: Chapter Nine: The Piggyback

[DearEvette]

Based on what we learned about Fred and Max -- don't remember what Chrissy's trauma was -- but it seemed to be steeped specifically in guilt. 

And that trucks with Nancy too, as her trauma was based on her guilt surrounding Barb's death.  But since Barb's family got closure, I wonder if Nancy's guilt was only residual so while it offered Vecna a toe-hold into Nancy's psyche he couldn't really use her the way he needed to.

And that makes me speculate that Vecna obviously is limited to rules of some type. The trauma needs to be guilt based and sufficiently present and sharp that it is as the forefront of the person's mind so that it makes it easier for Vecna to exploit.  The person needs to be within a certain age group -- looks like teen and YA are his trolling ground and the person needs be susceptible to him. 

I think he would have easily killed Max except unlike everyone else  she was aware of what was happening and had a support system to help try and prevent it.  But even with all that she came perilously close to being outright killed like all the rest.

[janie jones]

15 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

My theory is that the kids themselves didn't matter we did see him pick the third victim he did seem to consider a couple of adults first.

I don't remember this. What adults did he consider?

9 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

I think it has something to do with the four portals - when you connect them diagonally there is a cross an in the middle of X is Henry's house and the attic.

Isn't Henry's house one of the points, since that's where Max died? And the only fault line they showed running through it was the one that ripped the jock in half. It looked to me like the middle of the X was the front of a church. I wonder how the X would have been oriented if Max had died in the cemetery. But also, he killed them all (other than Max) at a specific time, not a specific location, and didn't appear to be influencing their movement (from location to location), so it seems that the location of the gate is more or less random.

[Llywela]

I think Vecna had to kill the four victims in a particular way to open the gate. It wasn't just about killing them - he'd killed plenty of others. It was about extracting their souls, whatever that entailed, something about the nature of those deaths that provided the power to tear open that rift. It didn't particularly matter who he killed, he just picked a few likely targets and went after them, for reasons of his own. He could easily have made Nancy the fourth kill but he chose not to because he wasn't in any rush at that point. He was taking his time, toying with not just his chosen victims but with those attempting to fight back against him.

Then he took Max when she offered herself to him, because why not, might as well get on with it, but he wasn't expecting the targeted plan the kids had mapped out. He especially wasn't expecting them to sneak up on him while he was busy and set fire to him in the middle of both killing Max and fighting Eleven.

If he'd known what the future held, maybe he'd have just killed Nancy when he had the chance and had done with it, opened the rift between worlds there and then. But at the time, he thought he had all the time in the world, so he chose to play with her instead, not knowing that doing so would inspire the whole group to come up with such a pro-active plan of attack.

[bosawks]

RIP Eddie.

It was nice to remember how much I liked Will and Jonathan.

[Cattoy]

The Pitch Meeting for season 4 is up on Youtube!

"Does he have a nose?" Ha!

[Absurda]

I'd like to know more about why Vecna chose these victims and started with small visions first.  Did he need to do it that way to get inside their heads and solidify his hold on them?  Or did he just do it that way because he's a psychopath who enjoys twisting the knife?

With Nancy I definitely got the vibe that he was just messing with her/the team because he could and he likes tormenting and manipulating people. 

[Perfect Xero]

15 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

I think it has something to do with the four portals - when you connect them diagonally there is a cross an in the middle of X is Henry's house and the attic.

That's how I saw it in one of the scenes

Oh wait, but yes, Max was killed in his house so...there goes my theory

Vecna's house was one of the 4 starting points, the intersection was at the Hawkins Library. The Library (or the upside down version of it) was where the Demogorgon took Barbara and Will after it captured them in S1.

[Emily Thrace]

On 7/6/2022 at 6:37 AM, Snow Fairy said:

One thing that bothered me was that in the finale we had a team in Russia, team in California and team in Hawkins. And it was night in all of those places.

At least in Russia it should be different I think

It would depend on where the prison is in Russia but Yuri's plane would only make about a thousand miles so the prison is probably pretty far east by Russian standards. The time difference would only be about 6-7 hours depending on if Hawkins is in the eastern or central. Plus if the prison is fairly far north the night would be a lot longer that time of year. Judging by the amount of snow I would say it fairly close to the Artic circle. I don't think it necessarily an error in any case.

[Rankles]

Although I understand why it had to happen, I’m not sure whether Max still getting Vecna’d after her previous escape has detracted from how I feel about Episode 4? Seems harsh for her to end up the way she did after all she went through.

[Carmel Cub]

15 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

It would depend on where the prison is in Russia but Yuri's plane would only make about a thousand miles so the prison is probably pretty far east by Russian standards. The time difference would only be about 6-7 hours depending on if Hawkins is in the eastern or central. Plus if the prison is fairly far north the night would be a lot longer that time of year. Judging by the amount of snow I would say it fairly close to the Artic circle. I don't think it necessarily an error in any case.

The prison is located in Kamchatka which is a peninsula in far eastern Russia. It is about 600 miles west of Attu Station in Alaska's Aleutian Islands.

[Ilovepie]

On 7/4/2022 at 6:24 PM, Enero said:

I’d forgotten Will is connected to Vecna until the last 5 minutes of this episode. He’s connected to him in a way like no other being that he still feels him, knows how he thinks etc, which is interesting. I hope that the gang finds a way to tap into that connection next season and perhaps use it to take him down for good. 

I think it's interesting that the pictures Will was drawing of the Mind Flayer in S2 looked exactly like what 001 was drawing as a kid. I really hope that Will's connection is key in S5. I would even love if Will developed some kind of powers because of his connection to help El fight Vecna.

I have such mixed feelings about this season. I think the Vecna reveal was great, but overall it was disappointing to have the kids all separated, and the less said about the dumb Russia plot, the better. I think Dr. Brenner deserved a much more gruesome death than just being shot in the back. The best part of the show this season was our scooby gang in Hawkins. It took way too long to get everyone back there. But I have such affection for all of these characters that none of this matters. I really hope the Duffers can stick the landing next season.

One final question: other than his own family, why did vecna only prey on teens?

[tennisgurl]

I watched the last hour or so again, its a real roller coaster. I love that Running Up That Hill has become the seasons anthem, they clearly knew they had something special with that sequence right away as it featured so much in the climax. I also want to shout out the guy who plays Eddie's uncle, he's only in two scenes but he just gives so much in those scenes, and all while playing it very quietly. Him crying after Dustin gives him Eddie's guitar picks really hit me hard, he made me really invested in this character we hardly know and his relationship with Eddie, who we never even see on screen together. It really is to the credit of the writing, acting, and casting that so many of the shows minor characters make such an impact.

[DoctorAtomic]

I actually enjoyed the Russia plot. I grew up with the Cold War, and it's a movie/show/whatever set in the 80s. You kind of can't not have some Soviet plot. 

[SherriAnt]

38 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

actually enjoyed the Russia plot. I grew up with the Cold War, and it's a movie/show/whatever set in the 80s. You kind of can't not have some Soviet plot. 

Me too, Red Dawn is still one of my guilty pleasures! The original, of course.

I think I'm going against the current in saying this, but I really really disliked Kate Bush back then, and I still do now. I also wish Eleven would learn to use her powers without screaming. I know it's petty and nit picky, but it drives me bonkers! Eddie was exactly the guy I would have been chasing back in the day, love me some headbanging! 

[Enero]

5 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

One final question: other than his own family, why did vecna only prey on teens?

Perhaps easy pickings? Teens are a ball of angst, from hormones, to school obligations to pressure from parents about everything from grades to college to their future. There can be a lot of emotional turmoil with teens, which they don’t have the maturity yet to handle. I imagine that made it very easy for Vecna to get in their heads and wreck havoc. Not saying he couldn’t do the same to the adults in Hawkins but adults, at least most I’d hope, have a much better handle on their emotions, who they are and how to manage mistakes and regret. Though I’m sure Vecna could take down adults too, the kids were low hanging fruit. He could  get the 4 deaths he needed without much effort and quickly be well on his way to destroying the world in no time. 

[Nashville]

I have my own personal theory about Vecna which (a) may tend to explain why his preferred victim pool is (almost?) exclusively targeted towards the teenage set, and (b) might indicate the chink in his armor which could ultimately prove to be his downfall:

Vecna cannot possess/harvest his victims without their consent.

This would explain several factors of what we’ve seen so far regarding Vecna’s choice of victims, and his interactions with them:

1. Upon selecting a victim, Vecna’s approach has been both transparent and repetitive: he finds his victim’s most distressing personal recollections and repeatedly tortures them with visions of the same, exaggerating and twisting them for maximum pain effect.  After several (was it always four?)  such excruciatingly stressful visions Vecna presents himself to the victim as the solution to their distress; surrender to him, and the brief transitory pain of his harvest will release them from the ongoing torture of their guilt-ridden visions.
2. A voluntary victim capitulation requirement could explain why Vecna exclusively targets teens; the most wildly amplified emotions are par for the course, and teens lack the age-gained perspective on life to personally know ANY emotional pain (no matter how extreme) can become more manageable with time.  Adults, on the other hand, are much more likely to have personal life experience with - and personal belief in - the truth behind the adage “this too shall pass”.  Teens are more likely to fully believe Vecna’s “take my deal, or this intolerable pain will continue forever” schtick, if only momentarily - but that momentary capitulation might be all Vecna needs.
3. Vecna having a requirement for full capitulation by his victims might also explain how Max survived when her predecessors did not.  Max was riddled with guilt over her reaction to Billy’s death, sure, but her guilt was also intricately interwoven with relief at being freed from Billy’s abuse.  Max was definitely saying the right words to comply with Vecna’s ultimatum, which may have opened the door for Vecna to initiate his harvest ritual - but a Max lack of even momentary full-hearted acceptance (in conjunction with the others’ attempts to distract and weaken Vecna) may have blocked Vecna’s ability to successfully close the deal.

All of which, if accurate, would lead to two possibilities to defeat Vecna - both of which involve tricking him into irrevocably committing to a victim who…

1. Possesses sufficient inner emotional strength to endure Vecna’s torture without capitulating, even momentarily - or…
2. Lacks sufficient intellectual and/or emotional understanding of their situation - or Vecna’s proffered solution - to make an informed and conscious choice to surrender.

[Clanstarling]

12 hours ago, SherriAnt said:

I also wish Eleven would learn to use her powers without screaming. I know it's petty and nit picky, but it drives me bonkers!

I think of her vocalizations like weight lifters, the screaming and grunting is part of the effort. El's mental abilities are also physically punishing, so for the more difficult stuff, screaming seems appropriate to me.

[DoctorAtomic]

Or tennis players when they serve. 

[shoovenbooty]

Where is Max's mom? Lucas and his sister are sitting vigil at Max's bedside while she lies in a coma, but her mom is nowhere to be seen? The only times I remember her being shown this season was in one of Max's trances, when she hugs Max to comfort her - then turns into Vecna, and in one of Max's "happy memories" which is her hugging Max before she turns into Vecna (not sure why that was a happy memory when it wasn't really Max's mom). They couldn't have shown her outside the room privately talking to a doctor, or getting coffee at a hallway vending machine, or sleeping in a chair in the corner of the hospital room while Lucas was reading to Max? Sure, they have briefly shown the parents of the other kids where they are largely oblivious to everything going on, but none of their kids was lying in the hospital in a coma. Her absence just seems strange to me.

[Starry-Eyed]

4 hours ago, shoovenbooty said:

Where is Max's mom? Lucas and his sister are sitting vigil at Max's bedside while she lies in a coma, but her mom is nowhere to be seen? The only times I remember her being shown this season was in one of Max's trances, when she hugs Max to comfort her - then turns into Vecna, and in one of Max's "happy memories" which is her hugging Max before she turns into Vecna (not sure why that was a happy memory when it wasn't really Max's mom). They couldn't have shown her outside the room privately talking to a doctor, or getting coffee at a hallway vending machine, or sleeping in a chair in the corner of the hospital room while Lucas was reading to Max? Sure, they have briefly shown the parents of the other kids where they are largely oblivious to everything going on, but none of their kids was lying in the hospital in a coma. Her absence just seems strange to me.

Is she being set up to be an "earthquake" victim? It would be terribly tragic for Max to lose her only living family member, but it would sure simplify the storytelling if Max became an orphan to be folded into one of the existing family units

[Captain Stable]

On 7/2/2022 at 3:08 AM, krankydoodle said:

I was kind of annoyed that this didn't come up until late in the game. I know there was a lot going on, but the way his connection to the Mind Flayer/Vecna was only brought up again at the end felt kind of cheap.

I thougth Will made the comment that "now he's back in Hawkins, he can feel it again"

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, Captain Stable said:

I thougth Will made the comment that "now he's back in Hawkins, he can feel it again"

I believe you're right. Will couldn't feel Vecna in California or wherever the heck they were when going after El. But once he was back home...

[Perfect Xero]

On 7/9/2022 at 5:48 PM, shoovenbooty said:

Where is Max's mom? Lucas and his sister are sitting vigil at Max's bedside while she lies in a coma, but her mom is nowhere to be seen? The only times I remember her being shown this season was in one of Max's trances, when she hugs Max to comfort her - then turns into Vecna, and in one of Max's "happy memories" which is her hugging Max before she turns into Vecna (not sure why that was a happy memory when it wasn't really Max's mom). They couldn't have shown her outside the room privately talking to a doctor, or getting coffee at a hallway vending machine, or sleeping in a chair in the corner of the hospital room while Lucas was reading to Max? Sure, they have briefly shown the parents of the other kids where they are largely oblivious to everything going on, but none of their kids was lying in the hospital in a coma. Her absence just seems strange to me.

She's at work, those hospital bills aren't going to pay themselves.

[Nashville]

On 7/9/2022 at 8:58 PM, Starry-Eyed said:

It would be terribly tragic for Max to lose her only living family member

Would it, though? All we’ve seen of MaxMom’s parental involvement to date has been risking burning down their shitty-ass trailer by passing out drunk mid-cigarette. Oh - that, and one sentence about how “that Munson boy” must be in trouble again.  Mother Of the Year material, for sure.

I mean, I’m sure Max loves her mother - but what little we’ve seen of their interaction would seem to indicate a near swap of their parent/child dynamic; Max takes care of Mom more than Mom takes care of Max.  And Max isn’t in such a stellar mental space in her own life that she couldn’t use some “taking care of” herself - but fuck-all if Max is likely to get it any time soon….  😕

[blackrose602]

On 7/3/2022 at 10:10 AM, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I think that the only thing that could be considered rewriting history is how accepting Steve and apparently Jonathan are. But given how popular the show is among today's teenagers, I am okay with that bit of rewriting. Because I would rather LGBTQ+ teens who are thinking about coming out today see supportive scenes like these than ones that will scare them.

IDK, I was a theater kid in the 80s and 90s. Lots of gay friends who were comfortable being out within the theater community. And they were varying levels of out to specific friends and/or family outside the theater. So I could buy Steve and Jonathan being accepting based on what we know of their characters, even in that time EVERYONE wasn't homophobic. I do remember lots of Saturday nights spent with one of my best friends hanging out with a gay couple, pretending to be their girlfriends so they could do normal things like go bowling or shoot pool. IME, most gay people had a few select people around them who not only accepted them, but helped them navigate the social world.

[blackrose602]

On 7/3/2022 at 11:21 AM, LittleIggy said:

When Hopper chopped off the Demogorgon’s arm, did anyone else say “‘Tis but a scratch”? 😆

No, but when they were talking about the four deaths, my dad and I both shouted simultaneously, "Four Horcruxes!"

[janie jones]

On 7/8/2022 at 6:51 PM, SherriAnt said:

I think I'm going against the current in saying this, but I really really disliked Kate Bush back then, and I still do now.

I feel the same way.

[GustavMahler]

Great Season, loved everything about it. I cannot thoroughly explain though, why I have this "Search for Spock" vibe concerning Eddie?

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 7/8/2022 at 3:53 PM, Ilovepie said:

One final question: other than his own family, why did vecna only prey on teens?

Yeah, I'd speculate the Watsonian/in-universe reason is that teens have fewer mental defense mechanisms and a greater proclivity to thinking of everything as The! Worst! Thing! Ever!, all of which probably made things easier/sweeter for Vecna. 

It also could be part of his own issues since his abilities seemingly triggered when he was a teen.

The Doylist reason is because the series is a play off of the sort of movies where teens are in danger. You generally don't see Freddy/Jason and the like carving up pre-teens or full-grown adults as their chief targets.

[ch1]

On 7/11/2022 at 9:42 PM, janie jones said:

I feel the same way.

This Woman’s Work is a fantastic song.

I never want to hear Running Up that Hill again.

[Hotel Snarker]

11 minutes ago, ch1 said:

This Woman’s Work is a fantastic song.

I personally think you guys should also listen to Cloudbusting. Great song.

[Nashville]

My personal favorite Kate Bush song was “Them Heavy People”.

[janie jones]

21 hours ago, Hotel Snarker said:

I personally think you guys should also listen to Cloudbusting. Great song.

Well I don't like her voice, so unless she doesn't sound like herself in that song, I'll pass.

Guess what song came on in Starbucks while I was typing the above.

[LilJen]

RIP Eddie 😭 Awesome character. At least now he can go star in a Robert Downey Jr biopic, or an Iron Man prequel.

[paramitch]

I thought this was a pretty satisfying, epic close to a really strong season.

This was an incredible build of tension, and I honestly loved the way the broken teams connected during the big Vecna fight. The writing and storytelling this season was just fantastic, and I felt like this finale (while loooong) was beautifully structured. I even loved the way the battle ended halfway through, so we got that thoughtful, bittersweet denouement.

And RIP Eddie! I cried. I figured he was a goner but desperately wanted to be wrong. But he was wonderful, funny, and brave, wonderfully played by Joseph Quinn, and I loved his connection with Dustin. It hit me really hard that his last words were simply, "I love you," to this sweet, good kid who had been like family to him. And I hate that the town thinks he was the killer all along. I hope the truth comes out next season.

I also loved Eleven owning her power, and trying so hard to save her friend (as always MBB is incredible). I loved the clever story aspect that allowed the Pizza Van kids to connect with her and how they were able to help her be present for the battle (even if she couldn't QUITE save Max!).

Will's beautiful and quiet conversation with Jonathan had me in tears. I've been so moved by Will's quiet struggle with what I feel is clearly his coming out as gay. His loneliness, his feelings of being abandoned, his unspoken love for Mike, his knowledge of his own difference, and his fear of coming out and being rejected. Charlie Heaton and Noah Schnapp knocked it out of the park there.

Speaking of great performances, oh, man, Caleb McLaughlin as Lucas! I disliked Lucas in Season 1 (he was so mean to Eleven!) but he has become one of my favorite characters across the past few seasons, and Caleb was so damn good here, especially when Lucas is trying so hard to save Max (and equally good -- and creepy -- as Vecna-Lucas).

And of course there's Sadie Sink as Max, who was so damn brave and smart, and who continued to be absolutely amazing. The outcome devastated me (more on that farther down). Watching Max's bones actually snap (which was both inspired and sadistic of the writers because I was so sure they would not go all the way there) was one of the most horrifying things I've ever seen.

I loved the way the Russia plot converged and thought it was genuinely suspenseful and cool, especially when it truly had such a huge impact on the battle in the Upside Down. I loved Murray's big moment and Joyce once again being smart and still real (and especially, in a welcome touch) that this season Joyce didn't spend it weeping over her son. Loved Hopper's smarts in the ring and that J'aquen Dmitri survived! 

And I was happy to see Joyce and Hopper finally act on their feelings. I know a lot of people were grossed out by the big Joyce/Hopper kiss, imagining bad breath, but my take is -- they had cleaned up. It's not a stretch to imagine he had done his best to clean his teeth and rinse his mouth, even if he didn't have access to toothpaste.  (Which he probably did.)

And secondly: Look, if a genuinely heroic person you loved and had the hots for and who had DIED for you and your family showed up after imprisonment, who cares if their breath isn't perfect? I don't think they cared.

I did have a few quibbles.

• While it was powerful, I really, really hated that after the powerful and basically perfect 4th "Dear Billy" episode, that poor Max ended up basically dying (I know she survived, but in horrific conditions) terrified, tortured, and in brutal pain and fear. It felt almost sadistic to me to watch her actually die like Vecna's other victims after how hard the gang had tried to save her. And yeah, I'm glad she's alive, but y'all, she's blind, has multiple compound fractures (including, it was implied, her spine?). It doesn't look good. And now Eleven can't find her. Sniffle.
• After a rocky start (I hated him in S1) I have grown to love Steve, but WTF with the writers and that horrible "I want to have six kids with you" speech to Nancy? My main issue with this show is occasionally this kind of seriously off-putting misogyny, often at borderline red-pill levels, and it's just gross, although it has gone way down since S1 (thank goodness), when it was constant. Who looks at teeny tiny Nancy, who is so delicate, and says "I really want to pop six kids into that" as a general goal? Or as a ROMANTIC SPEECH? Ugh. I get what they were going for but, oh man, total fail.
• And oh, my GOD, Hopper, enough with the fat jokes. We get it! You were pudgy before! And now after your time in a GULAG, you're thin! Good for you! Gah. Look, I'm glad Harbour is all buff now and has that enviable six-pack, but the fact is, I loved Hopper just the same when he was pudgy and soft, and I'm sure Joyce did too. Bob (RIP, Bob!!) was also adorable and soft and imperfect -- most people are. So it just hit me wrong that Hopper would not let up on the fat jokes.

But... enough ranting. Overall, I thought this was a gorgeous end to a gorgeous, complex, and moving season of television.

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, paramitch said:

I

• After a rocky start (I hated him in S1) I have grown to love Steve, but WTF with the writers and that horrible "I want to have six kids with you" speech to Nancy? My main issue with this show is occasionally this kind of seriously off-putting misogyny, often at borderline red-pill levels, and it's just gross, although it has gone way down since S1 (thank goodness), when it was constant. Who looks at teeny tiny Nancy, who is so delicate, and says "I really want to pop six kids into that" as a general goal? Or as a ROMANTIC SPEECH? Ugh. I get what they were going for but, oh man, total fail.

This reminded me so much of a guy I dated briefly in the 70s. He treated me very nicely, and then on a second or third date, said his dream was to have like ten kids and live on a hill somewhere in the midwest (I forget where, didn't hear much past the ten kids). That was our last date. No thanks.

And yet, for some odd reason, I found it sweet with Steve. I don't know why - maybe just that it was so unlike his original jerk self.

[Taryn74]

11 hours ago, paramitch said:

Look, I'm glad Harbour is all buff now and has that enviable six-pack, but the fact is, I loved Hopper just the same when he was pudgy and soft, and I'm sure Joyce did too.

I thought he looked way better pudgy, LOL. His face is too thin now. It gives him a Cro Magnon Man look.

[DoctorAtomic]

I didn't think Steve was saying he wanted six kids with Nancy than he was saying in general he thought about having a big family. 

[Clanstarling]

13 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

I thought he looked way better pudgy, LOL. His face is too thin now. It gives him a Cro Magnon Man look.

I seem to remember remember that Harbour had some body image issues. I like him whichever way he looks. I read that this intense weight loss  was so he would look like he'd been a prisoner under those conditions for so long. Actors really put their bodies under incredible amounts of stress for certain roles. Not too healthy in the long run, I think.

[Sarah 103]

On 7/1/2022 at 12:19 PM, Harvey said:

While this was very exciting and action packed, the scene where Jonathan told Will that he is there for him no matter what was my favorite. It was so touching and very well-done.

YES! I love that Jonathan supports his brother no matter what. He has probably had suspicions for awhile, but never cared and would always try to love, support, and care for his younger brother. 

On 7/1/2022 at 4:13 PM, Cranberry said:

I liked the bonding moment between Will and Jonathan. I hope Will's speech to Mike and Jonathan's reassurances that he'll love Will no matter what will kill the "Will's not gay, just immature" debate.

It did for me. Until this season, I thought it was possible that Will was immature and not into girls yet. After the last two episodes of season 4, I am totally convinced that Will is gay. 

On 7/1/2022 at 10:58 PM, BlackberryJam said:

Dressing up Dustin like an Ewok. That might be my favorite costuming ever.

Until you posted that, I hadn't put the two together, and now that's all I can think of. He did look sort of like an ewok now that you point it out. 

[BlackberryJam]

7 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

Until you posted that, I hadn't put the two together, and now that's all I can think of. He did look sort of like an ewok now that you point it out. 

GM has a bit of a teddy bear look about him, so when I saw the head thing, all I could see was Ewok! With so many other things going on in the episode, I thought it was a nice touch.

[SharonH58]

On 7/2/2022 at 12:24 AM, bunnyblue said:

 But then the show had to ruin things by having El restart Max's heart. If the Duffer brothers were too afraid to have Max's death stick then they shouldn't have let it get as far as it did. The gang could have stopped Vecna before he started breaking her limbs and making her eyes bleed. For all the death the Duffer brothers promise they are incredibly averse at killing any of the main characters; this is the 4th cop out they've pulled (El, Will, Hopper, and Max).

Not unpopular with me. I agree with about 99% of what you wrote, except with disliking Eddie's guitar solo. I loved the choice of song and that Eddie got to show off.

i agree with El bringing Max back to life.  Really?  Since when does she has this power?  IMO which will probably be unpopular, what does her powers really do?   It took her too long to bring the helicopter down,  she hasn't closed any of the gates for long and she did nothing much to Vecna.      

I was so sad Eddie died.  I really liked him and I enjoyed his guitar solo.   

[SharonH58]

On 7/3/2022 at 10:15 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

I am not even sure he knows that, since Dustin's story was super vague. As far as he knows his nephew skipped town as he was wanted for murder. It made me sad that they couldn't recover his body from the Upsidedown, but that would mean coming up with a convincing death story. 

How was Jason's death explained?   He wasn't in the upside down but I guess split in two by a earthquake?

[Ilovepie]

On 7/13/2022 at 10:56 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

The Doylist reason is because the series is a play off of the sort of movies where teens are in danger. You generally don't see Freddy/Jason and the like carving up pre-teens or full-grown adults as their chief targets.

I'm going with this answer as most likely. No real reason other than that the show features kids and it's an homage to 80's horror.....

[janie jones]

7 hours ago, SharonH58 said:

How was Jason's death explained?   He wasn't in the upside down but I guess split in two by a earthquake?

You mean by the show, or the townspeople?

[Sarah 103]

On 7/2/2022 at 1:05 PM, Scout Finch said:

I wasn't really worried about the batteries running out in the Walkman as much as I was that the tape would get caught on something inside and unravel a bit. Then, they'd have to scramble to find a pencil or something that fit one of the spools to wind up the slack. 😏 (Okay, Boomer.)

That's a valid point. Also, technically, wouldn't that be (Okay, Gen-Xer). Yes Boomers used tapes, but I think of that as a more distinct Gen-X music format/something more closely tied to Gen-X. 

On 7/2/2022 at 7:50 PM, Cattoy said:

Still not sure why they went out of town to get what they did. Any Kmart, Walmart, hardware store in town would have had everything they bought. Well, maybe not the beret, but it didn't add much to the effectiveness.

My guess is that they didn't want anyone from Hawkins seeing them and recognizing them. This failed when the jerk jocks had pretty much the same plan. 

On 7/3/2022 at 1:01 PM, Athena said:

I really like the Max/El friendship and we missed it until this last ep. The show started out and continues to emphasize the friendship between the younger boys, so I appreciate it when they focus on the girls. Both the girls have been abused and do not have a lot of strong female relationships in their lives so it's even more important for them to have each other. I know El technically had Joyce for 8 months but we never saw any of it in this season. They even had a small moment of Nancy with Max in the previous ep which I wish we could see more of as Max seemed to admire Nancy more than Jonathan has been doing lately.

If Max survives, I would love to see a scene that has all or most of the younger women together. Some kind of mini-mission that has Max, El, and Nancy, and maybe Robin doing something. It's an excuse for them to talk about other things while accomplishing the goal. 

On 7/5/2022 at 9:07 PM, shrewd.buddha said:

Whatever happened to Nancy's mission to be the next Lois Lane, ace reporter? Wouldn't the residents of Hawkins benefit from someone actually reporting the truth, no matter how unbelievable it seemed?  Lives could have been saved, Eddie could be vindicated instead of vilified. 

I think she learned from Murray in the second season that people cannot handle the complete and absolute truth when it involves the supernatural or truly crazy things. Also, she on the school newspaper, if not editor so it does seem as though she is still interested in reporting and a career in news. 

[Clanstarling]

13 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

That's a valid point. Also, technically, wouldn't that be (Okay, Gen-Xer). Yes Boomers used tapes, but I think of that as a more distinct Gen-X music format/something more closely tied to Gen-X.

Boomers and Gen X overlapped a great deal in terms of technology. We were older, so we used it first.

[DoctorAtomic]

I tend to think people generally think of tapes as being used with walkmans, which is more 80s/Gen X. A quick search shows that tape decks did first appear in the 70s, but I can't recall how common that was. My little self remembers lots of cars still with 8 tracks. You're not necessarily just buying a new car because it has a tape deck if your car is running fine. 

[Clanstarling]

30 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I tend to think people generally think of tapes as being used with walkmans, which is more 80s/Gen X. A quick search shows that tape decks did first appear in the 70s, but I can't recall how common that was. My little self remembers lots of cars still with 8 tracks. You're not necessarily just buying a new car because it has a tape deck if your car is running fine. 

Whereas I, near the end of the boomer range, never had an 8 track, just a tape player in my car - and didn't get a CD player in my car until the early aughts. We listed to books on tape on our move to another state.

I think we all pay more attention to what people in our generations are doing, and forget that like decades, there's a lot of overlap.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Clanstarling

[Taryn74]

15 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

technically, wouldn't that be (Okay, Gen-Xer).

Younger people use 'okay Boomer' to describe anything that sounds old to them LOL. My kids call me Boomer all the time and I'm 48.